A little work on the Paternoster rig

[Paulus]

Hi Guys
For the guys that use them.

After doing some tests on the way some of these are set out and made, i was a little surprised just how little strength this system can have.
I was asked to look into a knot system that would give better strength, as the strength of the droppers varied between the top and the bottom.
When pulling from the 37kg main line loop to the top dropper you could get 18kg 48%, pulling on the bottom dropper it was only a small percentage like 14kg 37%, then pulling from one dropper to the other was nothing short of a disaster.

Also the droppers needed to stand out from the main line at least at 90 deg, this made the knotting tests on the above listed a disaster. A lot of the droppers hang down and close to the main line, the dropper hook and bait can adhere and tangle to the mainline. But a solution was found with good strength, like 82%.

This is a 2 dropper rig, droppers stand out from the main line at 90deg, good strength, only 3 knots to do and can be premade.
No metal involved.
This system should fish better as the droppers stand out from the main line, they can be made as long as you like.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/Paulusvg/paternoster.jpg

Very good breaking strain low cost. You need to set out all the lengths before you start, from the bottom up.

Paulus

[Apollo]

Thanks Paulus

Will do a bit of practice and give it a go.

Steve

[marto78]

Very good knot, nice and simple just the way I like it.

Did you try running the double down to the bottom dropper? And does this give you 90% strength in the lower knot?

[Moffy]

Nice. Have lost more than the odd fish to broken droppers - Have to give this a try for our reds fishing.

Quick question - Do you need the double? (i.e. what is the strength without it?) A Double in 80-100lb leader and then through the dropper knot would be very bulky? (Or is the main line in your knot just normal main line - not leader? - if so is the percentage then of the main line and not the leader in the dropper?)

[Horse]

That looks well worth giving a go. I have been concerned for quite some time about the weakness of the dropper loop knot. I have been using swivel crimps and 3 way swivels but they both have big issues. I have found that the single leader catches a better quality of fish compared to a doubled loop leader so this could be the solution to a lot of problems

[Bazzawookooka]

Hi guys,

Sorry to show my ignorance here, but is the loop on the main line used as a loop (for connection with a snap or similar) or is it used as a doubler for tying to the other main line/braid????

Cheers,

Steve

[timddo]

That looks like the same knot on the kmart bait jigs. I still have problems with twist and curls

[Paulus]

Hi Guys

No need to have the double all the way down, but you can, it may cause foul ups.

The loop at the top is for quick change over, when the fish are hot, you do not need much time for change over.

A simple 2 times through surgeons end loop for the sinker end also saves time at change over.

This will work with any sized line, and all the knots are smaller than any swivel you would use.

The lower knot is at 82% bs. You can up this bs by having a slightly heavier line as the main part and thinner droppers.

You can join the braid to it via a bimini twist or an albright, if you use an albright then run the braid through your thumb nail and forefinger a few times each side to flatten it out, then fold over and do the knot,,,, 6 up 6 back over the top at least 2 times through.

These are easy to make, so twists and curls throw them out, with snelled hooks take them off and reuse them.

You can pre make these at home, saves on fishing time. Maybe you can also try snelling your hooks.

Paulus

[Micadogs]

Hi

I have been using the surgeons loop as the dropper loop for quite some time. If your bottom loop is at 82% using a surgeon's loop, wouldn't the dropper loops also be close to that using the surgeon's loop? This is a very, very simple knot to tie and forms a small loop like a traditional paternoster rig.

I mostly snell hooks, so the knot abbove looks appealing to my style of fishing, I'm just curious as to how much of an improvement it is compared to what I'm already doing (and allow easy changing of individual hooks via a loop and the whole rig also via a loop)

Regards Adam

[Paulus]

Hi Adam

The surgeons end loop i use is only used for the sinker loop.
The others are modified, so the through pull is in one line.
If you use the surgeons end loop as a dropper then you have two 90 deg bends coming out of it, in the straight pull through to the next dropper you may only get 37% strength.

Paulus

[LoungeLizard]

I must be a bit slow. How is the bottom dropper made? Couldn't figure that out from the drawing or description(s)

[Micadogs]

Hi Lounge Lizard,

Paulus is using the surgeon's end loop for the sinker loop.

Regards Adam

[whiteman]

Paulus, I stopped using the albright cause it failed a few times and moved to the slim beauty which has also had a couplke of failures but seems a little better. Mainline 50lb braid and leader 60/80lb Jinkai.

Do you have an opinion on albright vs slim beauty?

[LoungeLizard]

Hi Lounge Lizard,

Paulus is using the surgeon's end loop for the sinker loop.

Regards Adam

I understood that part - it's what I normally use for the sinker loop since it's dead simple. What I don't understand is how the second dropper (marked as "3") is made. Is the tied in a similar fashion to the other dropper (marked "2")??

[trymyluck]

Hi Paulus

Thanks for another great thread, like others I have been troubled with the strength of the standard paternoster. I have tied a couple of these already and they seem to be the goods. Easy to tie (I need simple)... Thank you.

Mark

[marto78]

Paulus, I stopped using the albright cause it failed a few times and moved to the slim beauty which has also had a couplke of failures but seems a little better. Mainline 50lb braid and leader 60/80lb Jinkai.

Do you have an opinion on albright vs slim beauty?

Try the reverse albright (I think its called that) but have a look on Paulus' site

http://www.#################.com/index.htm

[Paulus]

Hi Guys

Both the top and bottom knots are constructed similar, only difference is the top knot has the main line doubled over to form the top loop, so you can clip it onto a swivel if you want.

As far as the slim beauty and albright goes the slim beauty is not slim.

Knots are allways a work in progress, especially braid to leader knots. The slim beauty is a big knot, no better no worse than any other, just big.

No good saying this knot is good and it works for me. every one will have different combinations of lines, differing pics per inch, coatings, diameters, bs for their size and both braid and leaders will differ in hardness.

You can say this is a good knot, but for another it may fail as we have to many varieables.

Most knots suffer from a similar problem, the bending action of the braid, the outer radius needs to be longer than the inner, so the outer part of the strands carry more load than the inner, hence the outer strands break and the line / knot fails.

A slow spiral around on the way down the leader is better than it being tightly wound, on the way back it does not matter a lot. With the slow spiral down their is less bending of the braid on that item, this also increases the footfrint of the braid thats under tension.


Other than that, a bimini would work where you have two legs to carry the load.


Generally speaking braid knots are 60% of abs if you do it well, with the slow spiral down knot you can get a little better.


If you want to hang in with a single line going into the knot, try the PR knot, or the Sebile knot if your game.
Other than that have a look at the new pullon leaders on my site this is a totally new concept and I normally say 99% strong.


Paulus

[whiteman]

Thanks Paulus - good info and snuck that advert in very well! I'll have a go at the new rig over the weekend.

[whiteman]

Paulus

I think your instructions need a youtube video to help dummies like me. I just get a knot when I tie using the instructions - no loop.

[Nicko_Cairns]

Paulus, tried the J-knot? I find it even stronger than any versions of the surgeons knot (haven't tried your double method yet though) I've come across so far and is super easy to tie for droppers (twisted first), am keen to find out how strong it actually is though.