Netters sutton beach

[Seahorse]

A mate told me today that there were guys full on netting at suttons beach the long weekend.
Just wondering if anyone saw this.
If true how can they do this in this area.
apparently got heaps mullet plus others.

[marty+jojo]

Just came from there 15 mins ago and they had just pulled the net in. There was 7 4x4s with about 9 guys. They were at the northern end near the lifesavers and Sails restuarant. I went for a walk down on the beach with my son, they had a cruiser ute with double height gates on it, the mullet were about a foot deep from the front of the tray to the back. There was hardly any bycatch, only a few small stingrays a couple of cuttlefish and a small barracuta.
Marty.

[red rock cod]

yes. done every year at this time. their catch is mullet.

[Seahorse]

Thats shit.

[charlie09]

Ok how and why is this legal??>:(>:(

[murf]

more info as I am not getting it?

is netting mullet illegal?

cheers Murf

[Seahorse]

good question charlie. Right in back yard. I think it stinks. This is not a deserted beach like double island. I also would like to know how this is legal.

Wonder if fisheries were there to check sizes of all fish, same way as they do to us. Cant tell me that they only dragged in mullet.
7 four wheel drives, serious stuff and this would be 2nd time in a week.

[Midnight]

I don't understand the negative comments to it? It is low impact way of fishing for a target species. It has been going on since I was a kid. How else do you get mullet to eat and for crab bait?

[Seahorse]

What else do they catch. That's my point.

[robersl]

there it is normally just mullet normally not far off the beach they used to run the nets around them in a boat then drag them in only a small window for them to target them been doing it since i was a kid 40 yearsago

[captain rednut]

ive been watching netters in that area since 1970 and mullet and tailor are the only two main species ive seen caught. i cant see any problems with them fishing that way as long as they respect everyone else that uses the area aswell. i also dont see any bycatch issues that cocern me considering this is my playground aswell, the commercial guys these days have a lot of people watching them for the wrong reasons and have to respect any bycatch ensuring other unwanted species are released or they will only give the people watching reasons to complain.
cheers cr

[The-easyrider]

Since when is Double island a deserted area, I ate mullet once won't do that again. What is the survival rate of our rec by catch if the pros are doing the right thing by there rules I can't see a problem.

[Muddy Toes]

If its not Suttons Beach it's Double Island....if it's not Double island it's the Tweed.Fact of the matter is it doesn't seem to matter where they do it, it is always going to be in SOMEONE'S back yard and those someone's are going to have a gripe about it.Naturally.
By all accounts it seems they had very limited by catch so i can't see an issue to complain about.

[trueblue]

I'm glad to hear there was limited bycatch

[Angla]

This activity seems to be a sustainable one and the lack of bycatch would seem to make it low impact to other species. All positives in my book as they probably help the bait market out.

Cheers
Chris

[marty+jojo]

I walked the length of the net while it was up on the sand, i forgot to mention there was one sandie in the net also. I don't like this either as it is my backyard also, but in saying that i understand these guys are just trying to earn a dollar. The net is around 100 mtrs long, the bycatch was next to nothing, not one snapper or tailor.
Marty.

[mylestom]

Well in our case down here the bycatch is tons of Mulloway, also Bream.

Also ask yourself why the mullet are leaving the estuaries and going to sea in schools. Breeding, full of roe. What you are doing is hitting the species at the most vunerable stage.

Sorry taking fish full of roe of any species, let alone to do it on an annual basis is not right.



Trev

[ssab1]

Well in our case down here the bycatch is tons of Mulloway, also Bream.

Also ask yourself why the mullet are leaving the estuaries and going to sea in schools. Breeding, full of roe. What you are doing is hitting the species at the most vunerable stage.

Sorry taking fish full of roe of any species, let alone to do it on an annual basis is not right.



Trev
its the roe that they want, and since there is limited bycatch and mullet is not targeted (a few do ) by many rec fishes I dont have a problem with it, now Jew thats another story!!
If price is an indication with all the years that they have been caught this way, seems to be plenty around still.cheers

[landy1]

Just like the net full of whiting on the Sandy Cape thread. Didnt see any mullet at all. If you take one species out of the bigger environmental picture the whole thing falls down. I fish for recreation and i would like to catch something now and then!

[FireFly]

I'm assuming that if they're shooting nets now and pulling good hauls their quota's should be met quickly and they won't be seen again until next season?? WRONG...and this is what ticks me off about these guys.

I think it stinks and I'm not going to support it just because it's gone on for decades. The hauling of Mullet like this seriously impacts the rec fishos chances of catching a Tailor, Jew and other predatory species that follow the Mullet schools. I wonder how many will be bitching and complaining a month or two from now that we had shocking Tailor season when these guys continue to haul. What ticks me off is that when they reach their allowable quota do you really think they just stop? They also have black market, 'bycatch' and other non-regulated species which they can rape and pillage. Just look back to last year when they ran a shot around a massive school of Permit off Noosa's North Shore, where's the ethics in that? They may say "We thought they were Mullet before shooting the nets" but if this was the case WHY DIDN'T THEY LET THE LIVE ONE'S GO?? http://fishingworld.com.au/news/permit-massacre

Go fishing Noosa North Shore (or any other location) when the netters are in full swing and experience how it seriously impacts the rec fishery if you don't believe me. I for one would not spend the dollars on Fuel, beach permit, ferry fees, bait etc trying to drown beach worms if I know they are up there because I have tried in vane to many times following their beach pilfering sessions!!

Buy them out, compensate them 'FAIRLY' and let's protect the fishery for future generations.

[flatzie]

I cannot see the point of all the whinging here! Its obviously sustainable, as mentioned its been going on for decades, and as witnessed little by catch. they were there again today and I spoke to one old guy who gets some off them every year for bait. He said the same thing.
The tailor fishing along the front at Redcliffe is great at the moment, with the netters there, they are smashing bait schools, hitting bottom and retrieved baits and Im getting plenty of them as by catch when chasing snapper.
This selective netting is NOT messing up the fishing. I think its greedy to suggest they cant do this, and I'm arec fisher only. Im against the rape and pillage of fisheries, but I dont think this is. As mentioned where else does all the crab bait and mullet bait come from that REC fishos buy! Its hypocrisy to scream about netting if you buy bait, INCLUDING PILLIES!
Fair Go
Flatzie

[mylestom]

The problem is that it not selective, it the same fellows coming down here year after year, taking everything. No proper identification on vehicles, unregistered motorbikes, non rwc vehicles,trailers and taking the other species as well. Also camping and driving on dunes, parking and camping in no parking and no camping areas, the list just goes on and on. The you get the physical threats to locals, both to the elderly and women as well. People cannot under any instance condone this sort of behaviour.
The fishing here goes completly slack once they have been through.
Lot of photos of the non compliance, complaints to Fisheries, Police and RTA and what happens nothing. This is not sustainable fishing. This is I can do what I want, when I want and you can all go and get stuffed attitude.

The sooner that they are bought to justice the better, but how often do we see them flaunt the regulations of various levels of Government and nothing is done. Eventually something will happen that will wake up a few eyes, but hopefully no one has to suffer because of the current attitude, Its alright they are allowed to do and say whatever they like.

Me just had a gutful over a lot of years.

Trev
Trev

[brock13]

as said earlier this is a common activity happens everywhere every year. Know a fella who was one of the mullet crew. He said most of the catch would be sold to a pro crabber at scarby if not morgans. I personally dont like netters but then again if it is legit and i was getting a cut i wouldn't complain.

[flatzie]

The problem is that it not selective, it the same fellows coming down here year after year, taking everything. No proper identification on vehicles, unregistered motorbikes, non rwc vehicles,trailers and taking the other species as well. Also camping and driving on dunes, parking and camping in no parking and no camping areas, the list just goes on and on. The you get the physical threats to locals, both to the elderly and women as well. People cannot under any instance condone this sort of behaviour.
The fishing here goes completly slack once they have been through.
Lot of photos of the non compliance, complaints to Fisheries, Police and RTA and what happens nothing. This is not sustainable fishing. This is I can do what I want, when I want and you can all go and get stuffed attitude.

The sooner that they are bought to justice the better, but how often do we see them flaunt the regulations of various levels of Government and nothing is done. Eventually something will happen that will wake up a few eyes, but hopefully no one has to suffer because of the current attitude, Its alright they are allowed to do and say whatever they like.

Me just had a gutful over a lot of years.

Trev
Trev
For goodness sake this post suggests these guys are the reason for everything going wrong in the world and society. Theres no sand dunes at Redcliffe! You cant blanket one group of people with everything thats ever been done wrong by Pro fishos over 40 years. This is utterly over reacting. These people have alegal right to fish for mullet, just as rec fishos have to fish as well. The old salts who live along the foreshore at Redcliffe know these people, they are not rapers and pillagers, Vikings, hooligans or a threat to women and children. They are people just like you and me eeking out a living to feed their families and pay the rent or the mortgage.
If uou have a problem then you have to change legislation, not villify people making a living within the law!
Flatzie

[randell]

Just a few pics from the family collection..............
I remember the net fishermen on the Gold Coast.
They'd sell a few fish cheap on the beach also.
The bycatch in one is jelly fish...
randell

[mylestom]

Flatzie,

My comments were directed at the what those Qld netters do and have done over the last two years in our area. Which to clear the air is South of Coffs Harbour. Didn't know that I wasn't allowed to post actual recent data in my and others in our locality about the Qld Netters.

People, whether RecFisher, Pro Netters must abide by the regulations, they should not abuse or threaten anyone, especially Elderley or women. These are very recent facts.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Trev

[ssab1]

Flatzie,

My comments were directed at the what those Qld netters do and have done over the last two years in our area. Which to clear the air is South of Coffs Harbour. Didn't know that I wasn't allowed to post actual recent data in my and others in our locality about the Qld Netters.

People, whether RecFisher, Pro Netters must abide by the regulations, they should not abuse or threaten anyone, especially Elderley or women. These are very recent facts.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Trev
you cant blame a whole industry because of a few doing the wrong thing , Im a rec fisher only and I see alot(rec fishers) doing the wrong thing , does that mean we are all bad , whose side are you on , for me it responsible fishing from all sectors
Think . cheers alex. Ps Suttons beach is a long way from Coffs so why are you giving them flak

[mylestom]

But the netters down here are the same Queensland ones you get up there, that is my case in point. Facts often get in the way of a good story. They might behave up there but down here, just talk to some of the people that they have physically threatned. Yes I do have photo's too of their vehicles with some of their illegal activities, that was one of the reasons for the threats. A ladies in her sixties was abused when she asked them to stop speeding on the beach in the closed to vehicular traffic area. These are facts, the netters were from Queensland. I don't believe that their behaviour can be excused by anyone.

We live here and see their actions, they speak louder than words, it is up to them to improve themselves to gain respect.

Trev

[robersl]

there is only a small area the can net at margate due to the reefs located not far offshore they normally are no more than a couple of hundred yards off shore and the area they net they are more likely to get swimmers than fish as it is suttons beach yes it is ripe all throughout the different states but on redcliffe i have only ever seen them net this one area for mullet,
However in saying that there was an incident a few years ago further along the beach in late august early september when the summer whiting start to run where a lot of fisherman were getting a few nice tings off the beach the netters came down ran the nets around them and took the lot now that is wrong if the want to do that then they should do it at night when nobody s fishing

[nigelr]

if the want to do that then they should do it at night when nobody s fishing

lol, don't worry robersl, they do that as well.........

[Slider]

I am curious Flatzie about the tailor you say you are getting/seeing while netting is occurring. What size are the tailor?

[flatzie]

The tailor have been sized from 30 - 55cm. There have been schools of them smashing into bait in the green zone area of South Reef, only a few days ago. Snapper are everywhere along the Peninsular for those who know how to catch them as well.
I have been getting Tailor regularly as by catch when fishing for snaps! The notion that a bit of netting close to the shore for mullet will shut the fishing down is ill founded there. maybe so up north, but this discussion is at Redcliffe.

[Slider]

Ok I'll try this for the 3rd time and leave out all the important detail.

There is no reason why Redcliffe should be any different to the rest of the world. A net there will spook fish just as a net in the Meditteranean will spook fish.

However, there are any number of variables associated with fish spooking around nets.

Haul size, bait/food presence, current flow and coastline geography, fish age and experience being some.

Without knowing some of the details associated with when the nets are shot, when Flatzie caught/saw tailor or how large the haul/s were, it is very difficult to know which variables are in play. But be assurred that a net at Suttons Beach with mullet in it is spooking fish that anglers would like to catch and won't as a result.

There should have been a few whiting or bream in the net/s. Either they've already been spooked or populations are very low.

Can't imagine how mullet netting on the scale that it is currently conducted in SEQ can possibly be sustainable. That would very much defy very simple logic.

Lindsay

[robersl]

Hi lindsay
as you say the nets may spook the fish but at suttons beach it is more likely to be swimmers spooking fish as it is a well used swimming beach with a life guard area it is very shallow at low tide probable 6ft 100m off shore in most of the area not very many if anybody fish there for anything other than the netted mullet
because of the swimmers ect
shane

[petelaska]

Hi there. Redcliffe has a lot of rocky reef and bays this may affect the area abandonment as compared to an open beach. Also I got a couple of Squire out from Suttons this morning before the traffic got to heavy, so not sure if hey are affected the same or they migrate in from other reef in the area.(maybe from the green zone to the south ha ha). Pete

[Slider]

Snapper are unaffected by beach netting. Only fish of species that have a history of being netted from the beach are affected. And yes, the reef areas can potentially alter area abandonment and where the fish go to. But if that is the case, then the fish are a lot smarter than any of us are giving them credit for. They must know that nets can't be shot over shallow reef country - which is entirely feasible.

Not convinced that swimmers would spook the fish to any great degree. They are very adaptive and have demonstrated tolerances to all sorts of circumstances that don't kill them - boats, jetskis, pollution. The mouth of the Brisbane would be a case in point.

[jameshallam]

there was 3 groups of netters on the bribie island surf beach saturday afternoon with big hauls of mullet

[flatzie]

There are lots of things that no doubt affect all sorts of wildlife. Ive seen schools of dolphin feeding in close along all the beaches of Redcliffe, cant tell me that wont send fish of all sorts for cover, abandonment or whatever.
What gets me is that it seems to some people that we as humans are not part of the environment, so obviously everything we do is either unsustainable, damaging, wrong etc etc. ad infinitum.
We cant walk somewhere as we may damage the environment, and so it goes on and on. People have been fishing with nets for centuries, and yes some of it is huge and unsustainable, but in a general sense for thousands of years its always been a feasible way to catch food.
Sorry, but we are apart of the environment, we are predators, and when we or some other predator behavior enter the scene, a lot of prey move off. Whats so strange or should I say wrong with that? Wildlife fleeing predators...Oh No!! Give me a break! Welcome to the jungle.
Slider seems to think I saw Tailor feeding while netting was taking place, I never said that, I simply noted that during this netting period and lot of tailor are around, and a lot of tailor are being caught and being observed behaving normally, Ie not chased over the horizon by the practice of netting.
This afternoon we nailed, 3 tailor, missed a few more, along with snapper (see my Post) and two nice flatties, right near Suttons beach. Not sustainable Slider? Old salts will tell you they have been netting mullet there for donkeys years.
I have no interest in netting, mullet, and believe in conserving stocks, i think catch limits and sizes and green zones are good, but I cant stand the scaremongering, exaggeration and overreaction that goes on and that vilifies certain people groups operating differently to us.
I repeat, if you have a problem with netting, and buy Pillies, or other netted bait, whats your point?

My thoughts here are not meant to be personal, I believe in rigorous discussion on key issues that affect the great life we enjoy through fishing.
Cheers
Flatzie

[Mike Delisser]

There should have been a few whiting or bream in the net/s. Either they've already been spooked or populations are very low.
I walk beside the netters last Tue, they just spot - follow - then shoot the school (just like they've been doing every winter since my Grandfather built a house there over 60 years ago), they don't drag the beach. From what I saw they got between 1 and 2 thousand mullet, 1 tarwine and 1 little pink ray.

Can't imagine how mullet netting on the scale that it is currently conducted in SEQ can possibly be sustainable. That would very much defy very simple logic.
The same netting families have been targeting the same species on the same beach every winter for well over 60 years. Thats because the beach mullet fishery is just about the most sustainable of all pro-fisheries. Mullet grow faster than most commercial fishes, mature to breeding age faster than most commercial fishes, and reproduce at a higher rate than most commercial fishes.

Without knowing some of the details associated with when the nets are shot,
You got this bit right

...........

[randell]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily monday 20 june
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/06/20/mullet-run-spectacle-sunshine-coast-beach-winter/
randell

[brock13]

spoke to an ex suttons beach netter saturday arvo over some brews. he said they(current netters) netted 7 - 9 ton of mullet off suttons on their last week. hes also said most of the catch are frozen and kept for next crabbing season. he believes its all legit.

[brock13]

these guys are local fisherman. they aren't the same guys from up and down the coast. thats from the horses mouth!

[Slider]

Flatzie, you are right in saying that mullet netters shouldn't be villified for what they do. That's not my intention if that has been perceived. But it is my intention for government to stop the netting of the Noosa North Shore/Rainbow and of Fraser Island with appropriate compensation provided. I make no apologies for utilising every opportunity to further the case and to educate everybody that I can about the impacts of mullet netting and the reasons why the overall practice needs to be altered. There are thousands of anglers relying on me to do what I can and the conservation of inshore fish stocks, dolphins, terns, turtles and gannets is a significant factor as well. It's not a game I necessarily want to be playing or enjoy and it's not much fun receiving criticism and threats to my person and property, but someone must.

Mullet netting in its current form cannot be sustainable and the fact that mullet are still being netted in their tonnes doesn't mean that it is. The pros themselves blame water quality issues and habitat destruction for a downturn in mullet populations. I have no reason to doubt that water quality and habitat loss is having a serious impact. But the fact that mullet schools are netted from Bundaberg to the Tweed prior to their spawning must, in conjunction with the other two factors play a role in reducing populations. How can it not?

How do we ascertain that mullet stocks are falling - other than the pros stating that they are? Well, it's very difficult. But, as has been nominated as a factor with the grey mackerel populations, a netted school that 20 years ago might have had 20 tonne in it, may today have only 10 tonne. But repeated netting with increased efficiencies of today's technologies and learned techniques and methods can equate to a total catch stat that indicates that all is well when catch stats are the method by which Fisheries assess species biomass. Who's to say that in 10 years time the school sizes won't reduce to 5 tonne and Fisheries still claiming sustainability as a result of more, but smaller schools being netted and statistics remaining relatively constant. The Precautionary Principle of fisheries management, based on the above factors, needs to be applied to the mullet fishery. If the logic and the evidence points towards a reduced mullet population and nothing is done to alter the fishery and stocks crash, as has happened with mullet in many other locations around the world, then who takes responsibility?

Now to make one thing very clear. I don't want mullet netting stopped across the board. I simply want areas to be set aside where netting does not occur so that recreational anglers have areas where they can fish and have reasonable opportunities for success. At the same time, terns, gannets, turtles and dolphins also have areas where they can feed adequately without nets spooking the fish that they are entirely dependant on. Cooloola and Fraser is an appropriate area to be set aside due to high rec fisher participation rates, a number of tern roosting sites, turtle breeding and nesting sites, World Heritage Listing and important spawning and feeding grounds for multiple species of inshore fish. Fishing tourism should be allowed to prosper and tailor is one of many species that predominate in these areas and which can be a drawcard for fishers from interstate and overseas. Then there are the permit, bonefish, golden trevs and tarpon that are recognised as being of extremely high value to rec fishers around the world.

Mike, as mentioned, I wrote 2 posts that didn't make it to the site for whatever reason and which contained detail associated with Flatzie's claims of seeing/catching tailor when netting was occurring. I didn't profess to know when nets were shot, haul size and when in relation to these things that Flatzie saw/caught tailor nearby the netting site as that would have been silly. I wasn't happy that my posts didn't make it on the site as it left me vulnerable to posts like yours.
As it turns out, the net only had a tonne or two in it which would only cause small scale spooking for perhaps a couple of kilometres in either direction along the coast and for perhaps a couple of days. Should that net have had 10 tonne in it, then the spooking would have affected the coastline for perhaps tens of kilometres and for perhaps a week or more. It also turns out that Flatzie isn't claiming that he caught/saw tailor when netting was occurring, but the message was that the nets don't spook the fish at Redcliffe like they do up north.
The variables here are a bit difficult to deal with but I'll do my best.
If Flatzie caught/saw tailor before the net was shot then that factor is irrelevant. If he caught/saw the tailor the day after the netting, then I would be surprised. But, area abandonment can be reversed by a heavy bait/food presence which is indicated by the tailor feeding on the surface, and particularly if the relevant fish are young, inexperienced fish. 2 -3 yr old tailor which Flatzie has indicated the tailor were, do spook around nets, but nothing like a 6 yr old tailor would. So even if he saw/caught the tailor the day after the net was shot, doesn't mean that these tailor must be spooked if there is a heavy bait presence. But if another net or two were to be shot with a decent haul of mullet involved, then I'll bet my last dollar that the tailor would bolt for the hills.
If Flatzie saw/caught the tailor 3 days after a small haul of mullet, then I wouldn't be surprised and particularly if there is a heavy bait presence.
But let's say that 20 tonne of mullet were caught in the nets as reported at Wurtulla in the SCD article, then I can absolutely guarantee that there would not be any tailor over 1 yr old or bream, whiting, tarwhine, trevally, jew available for shore based anglers within many kilometres of the netting site for many days and perhaps up to a week and a half. All very well for those with boats who can get out to the reef, but shore based would be fruitless.
Other variables such as current flow can dictate how long the area abandonment lasts. High current flow disperses the chemical alarm substance that alarmed or damaged fish emit (schreckstoff) more quickly than does minimal current flow. Bays trap schreckstoff with places like Laguna and Platypus Bay having area abandonment last for a full week before dispersal.
Another potential variable is the reef structure that could cause the tailor to feel safe from netting whilst in close proximity to the structure. If tailor as a species do not have previous trauma to learn from of being netted around reef areas by shore based nets, then this could be the case. Green zones can cause a similar circumstance, but I would be dubious in this case with green zones in this area having only been established a couple of years ago.

The fish behavioural traits that I speak of cannot be summarised easily in a few paragraphs when there are multiple variables and locations involved. I welcome any questions, feedback, criticisms to be forthcoming, as this enables me to answer those queries which I haven't outlined adequately already. I have nothing to hide and if anyone can pick my eye out then I will have only learned something. As yet nobody has over the years despite a fair bit of effort on some individual's part. There's the challenge for those that want to try on this occasion.

Lindsay

[Slider]

I know that many recs consider it ok for mullet to be used as crab bait. But does the bait really need to have the fillets on. If the argument that the pros provide of supplying fresh fish to the non-fishing public is to hold any water, then filleting the catch would give them a little more credibility.
I'm not saying that the netting of Suttons isn't legit. I'm saying that the overall mullet industry is not good for rec fishing on the whole and in the long term will prove unsustainable.

[Slider]

Was brought to my attention last night that the photos in the Sunshine Coast Daily of the Wurtulla netting show that none of the catch was iced. Although I can't find on the Fisheries website the regulation that requires the catch to be iced, I am fairly certain that it is the case. However, I rarely see any ice being used on any of the netted fish from Teewah Beach, including tailor, snub nosed dart, bream, tarwhine, whiting, and golden trevs. Now I'm assuming that these species are not being frozen for crab bait, which begs the obvious question.

[Midnight]

The fish are iced after being sorted. If you have ever been to a wet market in Asia or the Pacific Islands, you will know that ice is not required immediately

[robsue]

The fish are iced after being sorted. If you have ever been to a wet market in Asia or the Pacific Islands, you will know that ice is not required immediately

fortunately there are a lot of asian/pacific island practises that are not followed in australia, i always put fish on ice when caught, even when buying from fish products outlet 8 km from home

[FireFly]

The fish are iced after being sorted. If you have ever been to a wet market in Asia or the Pacific Islands, you will know that ice is not required immediately

I've personally past the netters at Teewah heading NORTH after having loaded a cage basket almost to the brim? I think their may be different ideas as to what 'immediately' means :-)

[Midnight]

I always ice(brine and frozen milk bottles) my eating fish also, to get the best from them. But saltwater fish, if kept away from fresh water, (including fresh water ice) do not spoil anywhere near as quickly as we might think.

I'm not saying it is good practice, just not essential.

[rob fish]

As has already been stated the netting of Sea Mullet is the most sustainable fishery.Reasons why not all mullet roe up and run the beach a proportion stay behind,The bigger patches ie 1000 tray and bigger usually go to sea which means they can't be caught,A lot of mullet go on the south east wind changes as well...very hard to catch because they string out.And Suttons Beach has a weekend closure. The reason Sea Mullet are not iced strait away is so the fish goes into rigormortis this hardens the rib area and protects the roe this is why you see bags of mullet up above the waters edge.Hope this helps anyone who is interested.These people are friends of mine and some of the are 4th generation fisherman.Instead of hiding behind your keyboards bagging them why don't you go and say hello who knows you might even learn something.
While Henry is walking a patch of fish down to the shot see if you can see them,theres no waves
on suttons to look through, and you will see one of the best mullet spotters ever.
Surely its far better to talk to them face to face...there always happy to have a chat..
Rob Cree

[flatzie]

And so the continuous attempt tp vilify pro netters, the Netcliffe Saga continues.
Netters who are might I remind slider, operating totally within the law. Icing laws are not being followed now??
Did you check the tread on their tyres, see if their rego was paid up, have they had a haircut lately??
This kind of stuff will not help in any attempt to shut down netting anywhere, as it will look so weighted to REC fishing only, that legislators wont bat an eyelid, they wont be motivated
As to whether fish clear out after netting, how the heck would anyone know? Because no rec fisher is catching any...OH I see. maybe they have gone off the bite, like fish do at time due to a number of possible causes.
How can you possible say they have gone? we caught some good tailor on Sunday and yesterday at Redcliffe. A mate of mine who lives right on the shore told me he watched a couple in a boat less than half a Km from Suttons bag out on Tailor last Friday.
How anyone can devise a sliding scale of fish abandonment based on netted tonnage beggars belief.
If Rec fishers want to get netting banned, its going to take a little more than that Im afraid.
North shore is not Redcliffe.
Cheers
Flatzie

[rob fish]

As has already been stated the netting of Sea Mullet is the most sustainable fishery.Reasons why not all mullet roe up and run the beach a proportion stay behind,The bigger patches ie 1000 tray and bigger usually go to sea which means they can't be caught,A lot of mullet go on the south east wind changes as well...very hard to catch because they string out.And Suttons Beach has a weekend closure. The reason Sea Mullet are not iced strait away is so the fish goes into rigormortis this hardens the rib area and protects the roe this is why you see bags of mullet up above the waters edge.Hope this helps anyone who is interested.These people are friends of mine and some of the are 4th generation fisherman.Instead of hiding behind your keyboards bagging them why don't you go and say hello who knows you might even learn something.
While Henry is walking a patch of fish down to the shot see if you can see them,theres no waves
on suttons to look through, and you will see one of the best mullet spotters ever.
Surely its far better to talk to them face to face...there always happy to have a chat..
Rob Cree

[FireFly]

Bloody hell Flatzie...you're mates got good eyes!! I reckon I'd be flat out identifying any species 500m from shore...still, at least they were fish ;-)

Cheers
Rob

[flatzie]

Hi Firefly, Hes got one of those big mounted scopes, as well as binoculars. From his top floor verandah, you can see a lot of detail on boats along way out with that thing!
The marine Parks also take pics from the shore of the Green Zone with a huge camera and use that to pin people fishing there. They get the yellow bouy in the shot behind the boat.
I was fishing out there one day and caught a good fish and a minute later my mobile rings and its him saying, Nice Snapper mate!
I call him Scmidt da Spy lol!
Flatzie

[Slider]

The point of mentioning the lack of ice Flatzie is to reinforce the point that beach hauling is thought to be providing fresh fish to the local non-fishing public when the fish aren't going there at all. The mullet from Suttons being frozen for commercial crab bait demonstrates that point rather well. Educating the public that they aren't being told the truth about the industry is essential so that change can occur.
The netters may well be operating within the law, but that doesn't mean that the laws surrounding this practice are appropriate in this day and age when global fish stocks are in decline and that includes ours. And no, I don't bother with any of the other stuff like tyres and rego's that you mention as I don't see that there is anything to be gained from that.

I must admit Flatzie that many years ago - probably 20yrs - that I was of the mind that perhaps I/we were just striking a days/weeks/months fishing when the fish just weren't there - as naturally happens due to moon phases, lack of bait, poor seasons or whatever. But this experience being repeated over and over and with the experience consistently (all the bloody time)occurring when netting was occurring, started to make me think that there might be a link. Now, being on Teewah Beach pretty well every day of my life and having grown up very successfully fishing the area, I have had an awful lot of opportunities to assess this and over a period of decades. Massive amounts of research into fish behaviour and communication with other anglers has very much reinforced my own observations. You might think it's fanciful, but you might just need to do your own research and spend a couple of decades watching these things yourself so that you also can draw educated conclusions. And I am certainly not on my own in believing that this scenario is occurring. In fact, it was an article on the 7.30 Report in the mid 90's on area abandonment of Atlantic or Pacific salmon where the vocalisations of the netted fish were recorded by hydrophone, the fish outside of the net tracked and conclusions were exactly what I am saying is occurring. I am really just the messenger here as the theories aren't actually my own as a result of that article - although I have refined the information provided there and drawn further conclusions as a result of my own observations and research. A certain marine scientist from Paris by the name of Patrice Brehmer who specifically is studying this scenario and whom I sent an email to a couple of years ago outlining the hypothesis, stated that my conclusions virtually mirrored his own precisely. However, at this point in time, the theory is unproven and it is mine and Patrice's intention that this shouldn't be the case for much longer. It is not an easy one to prove as you would cynically expect. However, I am certain that there are many members of this site that will have noticed how poor the fishing is in their neck of the woods while netting is occurring and I hope that my very brief axplanations of why this is the case has solved the puzzle for them. I know it has for a great number of people that have said as much to me.
You are correct, and I am well aware of it, that this theory of fish spooking around nets, on its own will not cause for netting to be banned. But there are plenty of other good reasons why netting practices need altering and which I will be focusing on in the proposal that I put together.
The sliding scale you mention is a bit of a generalisation on my part and is as a result of time limitations and the need for brevity on a site such as this where people don't want to have to read a thesis to get the bones of the story. The variables, as mentioned are numerous and to go into each for any given circumstance would require a couple of pages on this site at least. But that aspect of the theory stems from observations and knowledge of spooking by fish as a result of a single angler with rod and reel, lots of anglers with rod and reel all in one location, cast nets, observed small commercial hauls and resulting small scale area abandonment and then observed large hauls and resulting area abandonment. Of course it helps if you can effectively spot fish in a surf environment (as do the pros) which I can also. My proposal will go into the required detail with all relevant secondary evidence quoted and I would encourage you to read it when released.
I reiterate that I have no intention of changing netting practices at Redcliffe and if all you Redcliffe people - and those around the Pine and Hayes Inlet where the mullet come from - are happy for it to continue then that's great. I am very dubious about there being any real differences in spook factor associated with nets there and nets everywhere else, but I'm not trying to change anything there so it doesn't matter. Again I make no apologies for using this thread to further the case for recreational fishing universally.

[rabbi]

I think the general point of pro v am is that we have enough trouble going out and catching a feed by rod and reel but when you see large hauls of fish being wiped out in one net shot its a nightmare to us am fishos as we see it from a food and sport perspective whereas pros do it for the dollars and they want as many kgs as they can catch.
Imagine if we were all allowed to have nets. The ocean would be a desert.

I used to see large schools of fish of all sorts schooling up to spawn a number of years back but these days if you see a school thats over a wheelbarrow full you are very lucky.
The marine biomass is decreasing at a great rate where its come to the point of restocking programs.

I think "Traditional Practises" that have gone on for generations are outdated and some of these guys would not survive if it was not for government sudsidies to support them.
They were selling mullet for $15 for 10kg here so what were the co-ops buying them for? 75 cents a kg??

I put more value on the mullet as a living resource as a food supply for other fish species than .75 cents a kg for crab bait or whatever.

When the resources are all used up on this planet where do we go??

We need to think long and hard about the choices we make because it directly affects our kids and their kids etc etc etc.
Are we so greedy that we are just thinking about ourselves, here and now? Have we forgotten about future generations??

[nigelr]

IMHO the marketing, not to mention the harvesting and processing, of mullet could be very considerably approved.
Imagine just for example if it was part of a Masterchef 'challenge' -it would become the new yuppy barramundi.........lol
But seriously, cat food and crab bait is a flippin' disgrace in this modern, supposedly resource-aware era.
I still maintain sea-run mullet, not the river-bound specimens, can be a very nice eating fish.
In the early 80's we used to buy genuine seamullet fillets from an outlet adjacent to Boyds Bay Bridge. It was great stuff!
And as far as a bait goes, not much better than mullet and quite versatile too.

[Slider]

Couldn't agree more Rabbi and Nigel.

Just on the slidng scale of area abandonment that 'beggars belief' - it is the level of trauma (fright) that the fish experience that dictates how much they will avoid an area. The same principles apply to any animal - including humans. For instance, buffalo herds that were targeted by big game hunters in Africa early last century began staying away from areas that they'd been shot in numbers, forcing the hunters to travel further afield to find the herds. Same for the elephants, rhino, thylacene, bison etc - there are any number of examples that can be used.

Received an email from Culum Brown today who authored the book 'Fish Cognition and Behaviour'. He believes my hypothesis is "sound", though is concerned that I am placing too much emphasis on chemical alarm release as being the cause of flight from nets and area abandonment. He says "it honestly doesn't matter, (what type of alarm signal) physical, auditory or chemical alarm cues are sufficient to drive fish away from an area that is repeatedly trawled." "All they need to do is make an association between the negative stimuli and the location".
Those that have read my stuff in the past would know that I have been very much focused on auditory alarm cues (alarm vocalisations) and it is only fairly recently that I have drawn the conclusion that chemical release (schreckstoff) is the reason why fish stay away for as long as they do. But it seems that a combination of all 3 alarm cues - which occurs with netting - is the big one in the life of fishes. ie netted fish emitting alarm vocalisations and schreckstoff and fish nearby urgently fleeing (physical) which is seen by other fish and triggers their alarm also. I have gone into some detail re the combination of alarm cues in my Teewah Beach report in this months Qld Fishing Monthly.

[doublexl]

you guys have no idea what you are talking about and you obviously have no real education in this area.nigelr you say "But seriously, cat food and crab bait is a flippin' disgrace" and then you say " And as far as a bait goes, not much better than mullet and quite versatile too" make up your mind.slider you are entitled to your own opinion but i think your full of it.rabbi if you are so worried about the future why did you kill that huge jewfish it must have tasted like shit and been full of worms.i think people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.and yes i'm a commercial fisherman.

[landy1]

Hands up who has eaten mullet recently..................or even in their lifetime. Cant say i see a lot of people qued up at the shop to buy some mullet fillets. So where do these big hauls of mullet end up?

[dan12345]

landy maybe you should ask who has bought mullet for bait ie crab pots? i seriously dont understand many of the comments on here about the pros, im sure u have all had fish an chips from a seafood shop, an im pretty sure u would have all bought some mullet for crab pot bait, not to mention pichards,squid garfish, for fishing bait, how the hell do u think it gets there? i dont see u all complaing about neeting pilchards or squid or hardy heads,only the beach netters seems to be one eyed, another question how many of u go out an target mullet from the beach? not many if any i would think so why is there so much hate for these ppl. in my op it seems to many ppl just jump on the band wagon about giving pros a hard time before they have all the details,
well thats my 2 cents

[mylestom]

No comments on the verbal and threathend physical abuse from QLD Pro netters to the general public. It is alright to putdown comments that you don't like but what are you doing about the image that your fellow pro portray.

If I find a fellow Recfisher breaking the law I will not hesitate in commenting to them or report them. The same goes for the Pro. Have been threatend by the Pros, seen them abuse both elderly and females. On these occasions reports and photos have been submitted to Fisheries, Maritime, RTA and Police. Would I hesitate again, the answer is no.

No one has the right to break the law, the people carrying out these types of offences need to be bought to task by their peers as well. If they are causing you a bad name, then there are not many Qld netters, you know who they are and should actively help them to understand the problems that they are causing.

Everyone has a legal right to carry out their legal occupation, but that does not endow on them the right to flaunt basic principles and the rights of others.

Have a nice day.

Trev

[nigelr]

So doublexl, you're happy with 50c a kilo for mullet?
You're happy to cop 50c rather than $4 for a food grade product?
Thanks for the insight, you've certainly given me an education!
I know what you are saying landy, but fresh sea-run mullet can and should be a great food product.
WAY better tha Aus salmon. Lets the cats eat that!
I happily pay $12 kilo for fresh calamari squid for BAIT! And I've happily paid $10 a kilo for quality mullet fillets for BAIT!
IMHO the pros need to kick some ar$e in the marketing department with regards to mullet.
Could be a lot of improvements made that could make everyone happier.

[doublexl]

nigelr i'm not talking about what price a bloke gets for his catch,personally i think that is nobody else's business.mylestom i agree that type of abuse should not be tollerated,and it does give others in this industry a bad name.unfortunately there are cowboys in all walks of life.

[Midnight]

I personally rate fresh sea mullet as one of my favourite eating fish. Nothin better for breakfast on Moreton Island. The spoils of helping sort the shot.

As luck would have it, my neighbour where I have moved to in NSW, is a pro netter and keeps handing Mullet over the fence anytime I want one :)

[rob fish]

50 cents and cat food!!!Nothing could be further from the truth,Raptis and Markwells buy most of the Sea Mullet in NSW and none of it goes to feed bloody cats.Morgan Seafoods buys all of Redcliffes ''Suttons Beach'' Sea Mullet. The roe goes to Japan, China and the US,The heads and frames are sold for crab bait,the onions go to Asia some whole fish go to Egypt and the fillets are sold through his shop,As has been said Sea Mullet are top eating and i have never sold it for catfood...ever
Rob

[ShaneC]

I can tell you now that I know a guy very well who stocks fresh mullet in a take away fish shop, and guess what???? It is probably the most popular choice for a lot of folk!! Probably partly due to its affordability, but it certainly ain't all going to cats (which funnily enough would probably be better sold as crab bait IMHO).

Slider, you have to stop manipulating variables to suit your argument. Netting either chases the fish away or it doesn't. Your statement that the tailor must still be around only because there is lots of bait is pretty ludicrous when in the numerous previous statements you suggest that they will bolt due to the alarm bells being set off by netted fish. Wouldn't that same bait that the tailor are feeding on be subject to netting at some stage? Wouldn't it too be scared off? Why is it still there for the stressed tailor to eat?? Next you'll be telling us that the tailor are too stressed to feed and that's why there is so much bait!!Your cause has merit, and I am not doubting your passion for a second, but I think your targeting of Redcliffe net fishermen (which, by your own admission are not the real target of your crusade, but are fair game to promote your argument) is a bit rich. The fishing off Reddy is as good as it has been in ages, all the while this netting has been taking place. There is plenty of squire, tailor, flathead and bream being caught at the moment, and lo and behold if you look close enough on a drive down the waterfront, you will also see schools of mullet NOT being netted!!!!!!!

[rabbi]

you guys have no idea what you are talking about and you obviously have no real education in this area.nigelr you say "But seriously, cat food and crab bait is a flippin' disgrace" and then you say " And as far as a bait goes, not much better than mullet and quite versatile too" make up your mind.slider you are entitled to your own opinion but i think your full of it.rabbi if you are so worried about the future why did you kill that huge jewfish it must have tasted like shit and been full of worms.i think people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.and yes i'm a commercial fisherman.

That was my fish of a lifetime and Yes I kept it but I see so much pillaging of the estuaries and beaches by netters and it is not just one fish pros take. Its a whole school wiped out and the fishing in this area has been S##t for a few years now.
4 years back I saw 3 pro punts pull up near the ferry before dawn, all loaded up with big breeding size jew. Tails hanging over the side and such. I heard later their "haul" went around 1300kg, for one nights netting in the river. And its not the only time I have witnessed these captures.

These jew that taste like"s##T" and are full of worms end up in the sydney markets and restaurants ,with a nice hefty price tag on them.

My style of fishing is sustainable as I may hook a dozen fish but land only one or two. Well, it hasnt been like that for some time now. I guess you could call it minimal impact these days.

I am passionate about some fish as they take a fair amount of cunning to catch on lures and Its my "time out" from everyday life where I get to have a bit of fun and catch my own fish for food. Im not that fussed about eating oily fish like tailor or mullet.

Sadly its a time old argument that has passed down from generation to generation and the good old days are just that!

I dont buy fish from the co-op for my own reasons.


I know what I have seen in the last decade in this area and thats my education!!


Cheers.

[Slider]

Ok, Let's suppose that I am knowingly 'full of it' as doublexl states. What do I have to gain when it is demonstrated that I am 'full of it' following all the research that is currently taking place in this field. I'll look a complete dick and that's not something I really aspire to. You'd have to ask yourself why I'd go to the lengths I do if that was the only potential outcome for me.

But let's take a look at some proven facts about fish behaviour:

Fish vocalise - 800 odd species have been recorded on hydrophones and their vocalisations placed on a world wide database. An alarmed fish emitting alarm vocalisations causes conspecifics and heterospecifics to flee a site.
Fish emit chemical alarm with any number of research projects conducted that prove this with conspecifics and heterospecifics fleeing a site with schreckstoff present. Earn Grant tells me that this is the 'official definition of spooking in fishes' - but it's more than just chemical alarm that causes spooking in fishes.
Visual alarm is demonstrated to cause conspecifics and heterospecifics to flee an area when they see an alarmed fish fleeing a site.

Now, why do you think it is that a fish fights against you when you are trying to pull it in on rod and reel? It's because they don't want to die. Why is it that fish can be seen splashing and showing signs of panic when trapped in a net? It's because they don't want to die.
So when fish have proven attributes such as the ability to vocalise, emit chemical alarm and the ability to see, then why on earth would they not use these attributes in order to avoid death and particularly from a threat that causes them more deaths than any other on the planet?

Shane, I can't not include variables if those variables are known to exist. I can appreciate that it may appear as if I am manipulating situations to suit my argument, but animal behaviour is not like that of a mechanical device that has no thought process, instinct or will to live. Variables go with the territory and have to be considered in any natural environment and regarding any living being.

I have never heard of baitfish being beach hauled and if you'd absorbed what I have written in earlier posts about affected fish having to have had experience of being netted by this method and also Culum Brown's comments, that the fish only have to associate the negative stimuli with location to flee, then you wouldn't have made this comment - hopefully. And no, I wouldn't be trying to suggest anything as rediculous as the tailor being too stressed to feed as that's absurd.
The tailor, and every fish and animal species, must assess risk of predation against their need to feed. They can't stop eating or they'd die, but they won't willingly let themselves be killed by nets either.

As an example of area abandonment reversal is the netting by Japanese in the Solomons of yellowfin tuna. The Japanese discovered that they had great difficulty in locating schools following a successful haul of tuna in their nets. So what they did/do, is net shoals of baitfish and dump those baitfish immediately over the side of the trawler which sometimes causes the tuna to return. Those baitfish of which some are still alive would be attracting the tuna due to their alarm vocalisations, chemical release, or by the chum affect - or all of the above. The end result for the Solomons is a seriously depleted tuna fishery and also bait stocks.

My personal thought process is that it is tragic that we have arrived at a point on this planet where the human population has grown so large that everything is now under stress. It would be wonderful if this wasn't the case and we could just keep on going and cutting down all our hardwood forests and catching as many fish as we want. But that obviously isn't feasible any longer and if we don't adjust then we'll run out. I think it's sad that people are being forced out of jobs that they have probably worked all of their lives and their fathers probably before them. But it would be far sadder if we ran out of our natural resources just because it's sad for a few humans who feel it is their right to continue the depletion.

[flatzie]

Slider thanks for the further wordy and informative rants, but taking examples from all over and trying to apply them in a blanket form to various locations just doesnt wash.
Me thinks most of this is all about the fact the you and your mates, Ref Sandy Cape - a Netters Paradise Thread just were not able to nail fish.
Noone likes coming home with not much to show from their effort, but that can never translate into an argument that netting everywhere is to blame. There are a lot of fish being caught everywhere at the moment, and certainly around Redcliffe.
From friends i know over the past week, 2 blokes got 14 Tailor at Mud Is. My last two trips at Redcliffe has resulted in good snapper, tailor and in the past month I have caught a 42 and 44cm bream as by catch. Big catches of Winter whiting are being taken all over the bay daily, 3 friends called me that they got almost 100 yesterday!
Tailor are actually seen, yes seen at Redcliffe right through the netting of Mullet by netters who have netted here for 4 generations. People are are a part of this community, well known and liked people. So here is a quote Im confused about from your thread Sandy Cape, a Netters Paradise. Its emotive, non factual and ill informed,
your words...."So if anyone is hoping to get into the tailor or any other species for that matter over the next few months along any netted beach in SEQ or NSW, then good luck."

Err... maybe you should move to Netcliffe!:-?
Cheers
Flatzie::)

[mylestom]

Well the mulloway are soon to be gone from down here on Bellinger Kalang system, they take out the commercial Fisherman out of the estuary, well the high neap tonight and suprise the Mullet Pro are down there ready.

Yep sure they are there to catch the mullet, and will of course put back all the Large Mulloway that just happen to get into there nets.

I also believe in the Tooth fairy and Santa Clause

This a regular occurrence, they are trying to restock the estuaries in NSW for Mulloway and then they are allowed to do this.


Trev

[nigelr]

Exactly correct mylestom. Thank you Mr. NSW Rec Licence holder! Sucked in severely!
Don't wont to paint legitimate operators with this brush, but I can't see why you would need to beach-haul mullet at night? From what I have seen day-time hauling seems to be adequate and I'd imagine a darn sight easier.

[Slider]

Well actually Flatzie, the Sandy Cape thread was yet just another example of fish being spooked by nets there. I first published in QFM articles on this subject of fish spooking in 2005 - because the owner of the mag thought that what I was saying "was very interesting indeed" and invited me to write about it in the mag and have been on the case ever since. Im sorry that you can't grasp the facts associated but I won't be losing any sleep over that and a few fish being caught here or there does not disprove a damn thing. Adverse feedback from 1 rec fisher and a couple of pros compared to positive feedback from hundreds of recs and marine scientists carries somewhat more weight in my mind.

[goat boy]

I read all these articles and forum posts on the mullet netting with great interest. I regularly fish areas that are netted (90% of my fishing is still SEQ/NNSW beach) and while it makes sense, I still have an open mind on what is actually occuring. The argument that beach hauling of mullet has been going on for decades so must be sustainable is pretty flawed. Is there any science/writing on the sustainability of Aus mullet stocks? I'd like to read that.
As recs are finding out as time marches on, not everyone in society likes what we do, the Greens and other pro-animal/environment types smash us constantly and as a result we get various closures and restrictions placed upon us but we deal with. Maybe the netters have to realise the same, as time marches on not everyone is happy with what they do and sustainable or not, public vilification is growing. Look at what's happening in the cattle industry for an indication of what public dislike for an industry exposed can do to it.
The Japanese and other nations have been whaling for centuries and would have us believe that it's sustainable. Due to public outcry it just doesn't happen, not here anyway. Like it or not, at least for the time-being netting is here to stay. As more pressures are put on the environment and recs, the netters are going to be targetted like it or not, get used to it, as enough scrutinisation could lead to?....

[nigelr]

Personally I think its fantastic to see some debate. And I'm very pleased and thankfull to see some input from the pros. I know I have some strong opinions on the issue and I'm sure there is another side. It would be great to achieve a concensus but I think that may be a way off yet....

[flatzie]

We have to be careful that with all the concern over netting, that people will get the impression there's no decent fishing to be had!
A quick perusal of recent reports here suggest this winter in Moreton Bay is proving to be a beauty! Great hauls of Snapper, contrary to the recent ban!
With all the great weather at the moment now is the best time to get up early or stay out late and enjoy the great fishing this region has to offer.
Tailor in abundance, Snapper, Whiting and some horse sized bream are all on offer. Have a great Weekend fishing all!
Flatzie

[petelaska]

Now you've done it!!!! The next snapper ban will be in the middle of winter next year as we have just provided the science for the government lol. Remember no one is catching snapper just toads, stingrays and sharks. oh and a few other vermin lol

[sandbankmagnet]

17 sleeps until a 4 night broadwater boys only houseboat trip.......... (insert Homer drool sound)

[capt. mud]

Yeh well those mullet were should good bait,8-) as usual for the reefies I target including snapper and 8kg. gold spot cod ! :D