New Gauges - Questions

[Splash]

i am liaising with a local vdo rep and during my quest to enquire about new gauges to suit my 1989 johnson 110hp 2t motor:

I a wanting a temp gauge, water pressure gauge, trim/tilt and tacho.

he has asked me to verify a few things:

"Do you want electrical or mechanical temp?"

"Which water pressure is appropriate - 15psi or 30psi?"

"Trim/Tilt - what sensor are you using?"

i did not know how to answer these questions and kindly ask for your assistance with these questions...

Help?

Splash

[Steeler]

Water pressure gauge go with the 15psi, with the 30psi it is really hard to read such small incremental movements of the pointer.

T/Trim. i pretty much thought any t/trim gauge for OMC would do the trick.

A 89 Johno i am thinking mechanical temp.

[Lachie1]

Mechanical temp would be the way to go too IMO - however where are you going to tap into the water jacket? Can you? And will a mech sender fit?

I agree with Steeler about the OMC tilt trim gauge thing too.
Regards,

Lachie

[Splash]

Don't know about ability to tap into the water jacket? ANy Johnson Buffs out there to assist?

How big is the sender?

How does the trim/tilt gauge actually work and what does it use to measure this?

Splash

[Splash]

http://www.v3instruments.com/marine_instruction_sheets/outboard_water_pressure.pdf

this link shows the 30psi guage is required for the 1989 johnson.

thoughts?

splash

[station-rat]

My 70HP Johnson runs 22psi at cruise, so go with the 30 psi gauge

[Noelm]

OK, the temp gauge can be the type that has a small sender that presses against the head and is very simple to hook up and work OK, water pressure gauge is also easy, there is a thousand ways to hook them up, trim/tilt gauge is useless. but if you must have one, you will need to ensure your motor has the sender unit on the transom bracket, tacho, is also a plug in affair (well the genuine one is) To answer your trim gauge question, there is a plastic arm sensor that is bolted to the bracket that bolts to the transom, the motor actuates this as it moves up and down, this is a variable resistor type of sender, and they bugger up all the time. The temp gauge sender is a small device that has a bent bracket that fits under a head bolt and pushes it tight against the head, this then measures heat and converts it to a signal that the gauge reads.

[Roughasguts]

Forget the trim/ tilt gauge Splash, I got one bloody useless things there like an ash tray on a motor cycle.... An extra stubby holder is better value!

Get an AMP gauge instead.


Cheers

[Splash]

great feedback.

can the temp gauge be provided in digital form?

isn't it useful to knwo how your boat is trimmed for optimal performance?

nolem - so, are you referring to the elctrical or mecahnical temp guage?

should i go with vdo or genuine omc?

splash

[Roughasguts]

Nah Splash, correct trim varies with speed, weight and conditions! to get optimal trim the motor should be 90 degrees to the water, no trim gauge will tell you that. There just a useless indicator.

Cheers

[Splash]

thanks guts.

i will get the amp meter. what is the hole diameter of these units?

can i get a digital water temp guage?

splash

[Noelm]

The temp gauge is just a single wire and an earth setup, so I guess some sort of digital gauge can be found, although most are just a simple analogue thing, I had a couple of sets of them, with sensors you could have had for free from an old OMC motor, but I gave them away about 3 weeks ago. (usual story hey)

[cormorant]

Wreckers will have heaps of these.

Most important one is the hour meter . Get a new one every year so you have a new motor;D

[Lachie1]

See i would say an amp gauge is useless and a tilt/trim gauge is more useful as a reference. A volt meter would be better than an amp gauge too but thats just my thoughts. Usuall gauge size is 2 inch i think but check with the manufacturer mate as it depends which ones you get. Have a look through the vdo catalouge with the salesman/rep would be the best bet.

Or maybe go see a local outboard mechanic or dealership?

I think you're right too cormorant - there seems to be alot of 10 - 15 year old boats around with only 150 or so hrs on them...

Regards,

Lachie

[Noelm]

I do believe all gauges (except speedo and tacho) have a 50mm hole! and a trim gauge is a sort of reference, but the fact is, reference to what? how the boat is going in the current conditions dictates trim, not a gauge, I got trim gauges with my new motors (they were supposed to be hour meters) and I fitted them, but already wished I didn't. I guess I am a pretty simple guy and prefer to have only what is absolutely necessary, rather than a dash full of gauges, just because I can!

[Splash]

lachie1 - why is the voltmeter ore important than the amp meter?

i am making a new panel in my helm and i have space for 4 x 52mm holes.

obviously, tacho is a must have, so that leaves 3 choices......

Splash

[Lachie1]

Would't say either are important splash, i don't have either and wouldn't install either if the boat didn't come with them. An amp meter will hardly move and i don't find the fact that i'm drawing 2 amps to be useful information or whatever. A volt meter will just give you the output voltage of your alternator/generator so its easy to see if its working - not essential by any means. IMO.

An hour meter will be more beneficial than either an amp or volt meter.

Regards,

Lachie

[Splash]

Thansk Lachie.

Splash

[Roughasguts]

Would't say either are important splash, i don't have either and wouldn't install either if the boat didn't come with them. An amp meter will hardly move and i don't find the fact that i'm drawing 2 amps to be useful information or whatever. A volt meter will just give you the output voltage of your alternator/generator so its easy to see if its working - not essential by any means. IMO.

An hour meter will be more beneficial than either an amp or volt meter.

Regards,

Lachie

I don't know about that! Zero center Amp gauges are a usefull sorce of information if you know how to use them.

Just after start up they show a heavy state of charge usefull to know if your charging system is working. Then after a few moments it's good to know the Amp gauge is returning close to Zero! that means your battery is recovering and taking the charge, if it doesn't start looking for a new battery.

If your 50 miles of shore and your showing a Amp discharge you had better turn off all unnecesary electrics as your battery is going flat as your alternator is stuffed, or your using to much power and soon enough your motor will stop! And you just might not make it back.

Also usefull to see what charge the battery is taking before turning off the engine when your off shore. If it's taking many Amps then the battery is no where near charged!! so don't turn the engine off you may have a dead battery.

He he But your hour gauge will save you...::)

Cheers

[Lachie1]

Amp meter vs volt meter. This argument is as old as the hills i think. Neither an ammeter, a volt meter or an hour gauge::) will save you . Regular maintenance and inspections will prevent you getting into a situation where you need saving. By the way, the best way to check your batteries is to load test them.

All valid points about the amp gauge there Roughasguts, quite easy to misinterperet though and most of the time the gauge will be within a bees dick of 0. Pain in the bum to wire up and can pose a hazard due to their wiring configuration.

I remeber getting told a few years ago that an amp meter MAY tell you half the story but a volt meter WILL tell you the full story. All depends on the interperetation i guess hey...

I don't really feel like writing up a pros and cons list however. People can talk to an auto electrician if they want to know the ins and outs. I haven't seen an ammeter as standard or even as an option in any vehicle, machine or boat in years and years though.

Regards,

Lachie

[Splash]

hello again.

i need more advise on the water pressure guage - 15psi or 30psi?

splash

[station-rat]

Go with the 30psi, 15psi won't be high enough

[Splash]

what about ability to read the smaller increments on the 30psi guage?

Splash

[station-rat]

What about water pressure higher than 15psi?

[Splash]

good point ;

splash

so, i have 2 guages decided - tacho and water pressure guage (30psi).

i need 2 more.

i guess it is between these 3:

water temp, amp and trim/tilt...

further thoughts?


splash

[krazyfisher]

I would go with amps and water temp

[Splash]

I will be installing a new helm panel, which will accommodate new marine gauges for my outboard.

I can fit 4 x holes for these guages.

I am wanting the following guages:
- Tacho (RPM on a more detailed scale) (like on this link http://www.redlineauto.com.au/produc...gory=DSNKKPXA&)
- Water pressure (30 psi range only with sufficient clarity to read smaller increments)
- AMP meter (zero centered and perhaps digital)
- Water temperature (digital only and in degrees Celcius and not Farenheit)

I want to be able to easily view them at night, and must not allow water to leak inside.

I am also thinking of getting a digital voltmeter...thougths?

What Maxium / Minimum amp range do I need to consider?

What maximum / minium volt range do I need to consider?

What is the highest temperature I should be expecting to see?

What background colour (within the gauge) is best for functionality and why (black or white)?

Is there a special consideration I need to take into account when acquiring the tacho for this particular motor (i.e. # poles, etc)?



Besides VDO, what other brands do u recommend for these guages?

splash

[Splash]

ok...

done some more research.

here are some links i have found that I need to choose my gauges.

I am pretty keen on the Faria range, but there are many options wthin this range in terms of background colour, etc....


http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/tachs.htm

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page162.html

http://www.nicksoutboardmarine.com/gaugesfaria.html



What background colour (within the gauge) is best for functionality and why (black or white)?


Byte

[Splash]

http://aftermarket.continental-corporation.com.au/files/YAPPQIPYDL/Viewline_Marine_Catalogue_2010-11.pdf

Page 19 of this manual shows a water temp gauge.

Where does the sender for this gauge get fitted?

Splash

[Splash]

help on this sender please??

do i need to drill this sender into the head, if so where?


splash

[Fed]

My sender which I wouldn't bother getting a gauge and hooking it up is just aft of the vertical terminal strip on the starboard side of the motor, it sits in a 'projection' that looks like it's made for it.

[BM]

Splash, it would be far easier to utilise the OMC guages that were designed for your engine.

[Splash]

fed - picture?

thanks bm.


splash

[Fed]

A picture is a good idea Splash, put one up & I'll point it out to you.

[Splash]

I am a bit perplexed by what type of sensor to use:

This information is what I have obtained elsewhere.......

Either:
i) Contact sensor that reads out the head temp (and not water temp)
The temp of the head is normally higher than the internal water, but the head temp is the critical one in this application.

ii) Sensor going into the water jacket (and measure water flow temp - literally)
Cons - Corrosion build-up on sensor in salt water. (block drained for water and sensor exposed to air when stopped)

I understand some heads have a threaded hole in the casting that does NOT go into the water jacket.

Which option should I choose (i) or (ii) and why?

Fed - some pictures for you....

[Dignity]

I have thrown 2 sets of trim gauges away, as RAGS and Noelm say they go bung and are useless, if you need a gauge turn your head and if the top of the motor is parallel to the water you are generally pretty well on the mark. Also looking at the bow of the boat should give you a good indicaion of what your trim/tilt is like. I have always had a volt meter but have often thought about having an amp gauge as well. I bought a new motor and new digital gauges came with it but not an Amp gauge, every other thing under the sun though. Didn't like the digital feel but am slowly getting used to it.

[BM]

Splash,

As before mate, use the instruments and sensors designed for the engine. Why re-invent the wheel??

Cheers

[Splash]

BM

I am happy to use the original instruments and sensors designed by OMC for this motor.

Are you able to confirm if OMC made a water temp gauge for this motor?

If so, what sensor was used and did it measure head temp. or water flow temp?

I cannot obtain this information.

Splash

[BM]

Water temp?? No. Cylinder head temp, Yes, they certainly produced sensors and instruments to measure this data.

I have a box FULL of OMC instruments just sitting on the shelf in my workshop!!! What instruments would you like and I can arrange to send them to you for a nominal fee?

I don't however have the cylinder head sensor for the head temp. Any BRP dealer can supply this part as a new part. Outboard wreckers could probably supply it as a s/hand part.

Cheers

[Splash]

thanks BM.

What should I be measuring - water flow temp or cylinder head temp?

All the gauges I am chasing must be OMC tech series, 2" cutout and have black background:

Tacho - 6000RPM, 6 pole
Water pressure - 30 psi range with sender/sensor
Voltmeter - 10 to 16 Volt
Water temp - 40 deg C. to 120 deg C.

Splash

[Fed]

69926
I circled it in yellow Splash.

[Splash]

Hi BM. Appreciate your offer to help out. Are you able to supply any of those 52mm gauges I need?

Fed - So, the area you circled is where a sensor shoudl be mounted? Why in that specific location and not further towards the front of block or even on head?

Splash

[BM]

Splash, I am away working at present and wont be home till the weekend but I will look then.

I will definitely have a speedo, a tacho, matching fuel gauge, a bunch of pointless trim gauges, maybe a volt guage and probably a temp gauge. Don't recall there being an OMC water pressure gauge in that series of instruments.

The temp sender is like a small cylinder about 5mm wide from memory with a threaded upper end that sits inside a z-shaped bracket (pull the z out to be 2 right angles instead of a z shape) and mounts under one of the water jacket bolts in the cylinder head. The sender simply presses against the metal of the water jacket.

Cheers

[BM]

Here you go Splash.

Parts 3 and 4 in this diagram is what I was talking about.

Cheers69939

[Splash]

thanks BM - much appreciate your assistance.

I am not wanting any trim or fuel gauges, when you get back home, check your collection out and see if any match my needs.

Regards

Splash

[Splash]

69926
I circled it in yellow Splash.

Fed.

What can I thread into this circled area? What exactly will be measured at this location?

Splash

[Fed]

You can thread a temperature sender in there Splash.
It will measure, wait for it........... Temperature!
69953
It has to be electrical, a mechanical gauge works on a capillary tube and it wouldn't stand up to the movement of the outboard.

Keep it simple Splash, my gauges are limited to Tacho, Voltmeter, Trim & Fuel.
A lot of people put Trim & Fuel gauges down but I find them both reassuring if you know what I mean.

[Splash]

thanks Fed.

I thought temp had to be measured at the head only??

Isn't this location you refer too far back form the head to have effective temp. measured?

Not trying to be smart here and I am sorry if I appear ignorant on this matter.

I am just trying to make sense of it all...

Splash

[Fed]

I don't know Splash but that's where mine is and it sure looks like it was made for it but you never know, it could be a mounting point for the optional supercharger.

Run it past your friendly OMC dealer and I think you will find that's the designed place.

Have you decided on your gauges yet?

[Splash]

Thanks Fed.

I have decided on the type of gauges, but hard to get the right response from some US dealers regarding diameter confirmation. I can only fit 2" gauges on my new helm panel. I know they exist. I am dealing with Faria atm. And, hopefully BM will come through as well... :-)

Here is my list:

tacho (6 pulse) to 6000RPM
voltmeter
water pressure (30 psi)
water temp

SPlash

[BM]

Splash, I have had a look in my collection and all I have is tacho's, trim gauages and a fuel gauge. I did have more than that but I'll be buggered if I know what became of them. The box used to be over half full. I don't however recall a water pressure or water temp. Not sure if they had such gauges in that series of instruments/years. Thought I had some voltmeters there too but they must have been used on other jobs.

[Splash]

Hey BM.

Thanks for the effort of considering me :-) Much Appreciated!

I will now go with Faria as per link below.... All gauges are 52mm cutout, so I am happy.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page162.html


I will report back once I have received them and prepare for install.

My helm panel is now nearly finished (6mm Grade 5005 Ally), and will be powder coated this coming week.

SPlash

[Splash]

sorry for raising this thread again, but what sneding unit do i need for the OMC trim guage?

I have looked online, but do not know if I am looking at the right sending unit.

I already have the OMC trim guage, but need the sending unit to go with it.

Splash

[Fed]

Your sending unit and wiring is probably already there.

Sending unit is port side of motor close to the T&T motor.

[Splash]

thanks - now i see it