First time using plastics

[Chris1984]

Well after being inspired by a couple of blokes on here with there plastics and there bagouts on flathead i decided to give it go. I went and bought a Shimano Symetre 2500fj reel and a g loomis 2-4 kg rod and had it spooled with some green 12 pnd braid. I bought some 3/8 3-0 jigs and 2 packets of Gulp, one was mango ripple and the other was pumpkin seed. I grabbed some mono i had in my tackle box and used it for leader, 20 pnd. I then jumped on the net to get a diagram of a knot to tie the braid to the leader and then leader to jighead. I set off on my way down to the bribie bridge as the tide was just starting to run out and went out on the old oyster lease jetty, i had about 30 casts out in no mans land just to get familiar with my new outfit. i then went back down to the start of the jetty and had some casts, 4th cast and i was on to a nice flatty got him to spitting distance and my leader to braid knot pulled through and failed:'( i was devasted to say the least. i then forgot how to do the knot again that i learned off the net so i used 2 blood knots to join the line. About 50 casts later i was on again and this time my leader to braid knot failed again and broke:'( This did not phase me and i rigged up again and spent another hour or so casting which i did have a flathead follow my plastic all the way in and just tapped it as i was pulling it out of the water:'( bugger, oh well i called it a day.
Please advise me if anything i have wrote should not be done when using plastics and if anyone has any knots they want to share that would be great, also any tips would be much appreciated.
Cheers, Chris;D

[frankgrimes]

Mate what knots were you using catching those 1000 barra up north?

Braid->leader - double-uni

and leader->jig head uni knot.

Knot section (hints tips; animated knots) has how to tie them, as does plenty of other sites(google)

Mick

[Chris1984]

mate up north we used 100 pound braid strait onto a wire trace, 1 knot from braid to swivel of trace which was a blood knot. Nothing fancy at all.

[robfin]

Chris, it sounds like your retrieve and SPs are working fine. I use an albright knot from braid to leader and then a blood knot to the jig head which both have stood up well to flatties. Another tip is to fish as light as you dare, especially if you are out in the open away from snaggy stuff. Anything right down to a 6lb leader will improve your strike rate compared to 20. You're likely to get some good by-catch too. Lastly, if you feel a bump on the retrieve or see a flattie take an interest but not strike, throw the lure straight back out to the same spot. They usually can't resist and will give it go second time around.

Good luck.

[wags on the water]

I don't think there's any wrong knots or ways to tie your rigs. I tie a bimini twist in the braid then an improved albright for mono leader to braid. An experienced fisho (Revs57) introduced me to the a perfection loop for the mono leader to the jighead many moons ago and I haven't looked back. It allows the jighead a bit of action in my opinion. As your leader gets bigger, 60 to 80lb, the knots are larger and I find the foul up on the guides when casting for macs. I still tie a bimini twist in the braid and prefer using the wind-on leaders for trouble free casting.

Cheers,
Wags

[alleycat]

Gday chris, i fish the passage a lot for flathead and you really only need 3kg braid at best but i myself would go 2kg crystal fireline, add a metre of 12 lb nitlon leader, jig head should be say a no 1 hook 1/4 oz head and as for plastics well flathead will hit anything but i use a 3 inch atomic prong or 3 inch berkley minnow, now the important part, attaching your leader!!, use a double uni knot and this is important, tie the leader to the braid and pull the knot tight on itself, so what you end up with is the leader in a tight knot onto the braid, then tie the braid to leader then pull tight, this means little strain is put on the braid as the leader material is pulled into a tight knot without stressing the braid, you understand chris ??

[Chris1984]

thanks for the responses fellas, i guess everyone has there own way of doing things but i maybe fishing to heavy by the sounds of it. yes i do understand what your saying about the double uni knot but how come you fish with such a light jig head, 1/0 1/4 is very small, can you cast very far with it? also if you have a fast tide/current do you have trouble getting it to the bottom? not second guessing you just picking your brain is all.
Cheers, Chris;D

[alleycat]

Well most flathead are caught in under 6 foot of water and using say 2kg braid it will sink better and cast quite far, ive caught 70cm plus snapper on 2 kg, and im guessing you have a boat, if so just drift past the sand banks on the lower half of the tide, if no boat then give a spot a good go casting wise then move 20 metres and repeat, the area between the boatramp just north of the bridge and the ningi creek mouth is another to try, as for the knots i was continually frustrated by breakages when pulling my leader and braid tight but found that by pulling the leader into a tight uni knot onto braid before tieing braid to leader stopped this, and mate limit your kill dont kill your limit ok...

[punter1969*]

i to use the double uni knot but i double over my braid to cope with all the casting bit more resistant with it doubled over make sure you give the knot a bit of pull every 20min or so until you get your knot right then there tough as i hate losing fish with a break at the leader keep going mate you want want any bait soon chears paul

[Chris1984]

taken onboard mate, i do have a boat (4 m open tinny with front and rear casting decks and a 25 yammy) but i just wanted to get a good technique going on land with plastics before taking the tinny out.

[alleycat]

Winter is best for flathead believe it or not, no matter where you go get your charts out and look for big sand flats exposed at low water, position your boat to drift say 20 metres away from bank and dirft while casting towards bank and bouncing lure back, most of these banks will have weeds growth on the edges, the flathead will all be laying along the edges of the weed, keep your lure near near the bottom and go have some fun..

[Chris1984]

also does it matter which way you throw your plastic ? tide wise i mean.

[alleycat]

Nope, if your drifting in a boat your moving the same rate as the water anyway, and trust me light line ie braid is a hell of a lot of fun..

[carnster]

Can i throw in my 2 cents worth: I use a braid to small swivel to 6 to 30lb trace (1m approx). I don't find that flathead seem to worry too much with heavier mono trace. They def can bite you off on 6lb especially if they head for structure and you need to apply some pressure. I know that lots of folks go the leader but i get much more strength out of the collar and capstain knot in the braid to the swivel (get 30lb strength out of 20lb rated fireline) and pull the knots tight to check em.

[Scalem]

Knot strength is important, but if you increase the size of your leader you will start getting problems if the knot is too big as it moves through guides, which leads to wind knots and restricted casting distances.

So after using many, practice the knot demonstrated here in this link, which is the bimini to worm knot. It's a ripper, and very small knot profile/size. It might seem complicated, but trust me it is well worth the effort. I use the rear cleat of my boat to anchor the bimini and can tie one of these in no time. Takes practice though. And if you every want to graduate from flathead, I would abandon using swivels. They will affect the presentation and movement of the plastic which is critical when trying for bream and other species you are trying to fool into striking. When snapper get fussy because of clean water (which is what happened in the bay during the drought, we were doubling the length of our flurocarbon leaders to what is normal. If normal is around the length of the rod, a swivel is useless. The main reason I have moved to this knot was advice given to me because my knots were failing with Kingies and Amberjack on the other end. I was shown this one, then could not remember it ... until I found this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGSD8B8E3ko



Scalem

[blackjew]

Gday Chris mate it took me 2 years before I got my first feed on plastics.
Thanks to the guys on Ausfish ,for there informative info ,As soon as i slowed everything down I started to get fish ,I was even casting on the sand and winding the plastic back into the water and Bang right near the bank,I started to imagine I was a bait fish and the movements I would make through the water shitting myself knowing any second that I might get smashed by a lazy lizard .Mate Not sure if the slim beauty has been mentioned yet here is the link I tried the Geoff Wilson version but he doesn't double the braid ,and i found it slips,I use 8 lb braid with a mtr or so of 20lb ,they know were the rocks are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YsH1gJJRLw&feature=email Dont give up All the best and good luck .
Cheers for now Rob

[carnster]

I appreciate what you are saying scalem and you catch plenty of fish.
I have seen a guy cleaning up on bream with extra long 2lb leader. All of my buddies fish with leaders and certainly do not out fish me and my swivels. I have a laugh when their knot (bimini) fails. Obviously many factors including knots and skill. I do try to go as light as possible but hate getting bitten/broken off at the trace. It's a bit like the old mackeral dilemma my mate recently went 50lb mono to his slug and i went 50lb single strand wire; he got hit first but got bitten off and i landed mine. I know off a guy who uses wire with plastics fishing for snapper and jew so that he doesn't get bitten off by the mackeral bycatch, and he catches plenty of snaps and jew go figure. If the hits aren't coming i do drop my trace size and increase the length a bit. Last week i had a mackeral come and bite my swivel while fighting his mate; a leader def may have come in handy there. If i could find a leader knot that rivalled the strength of my collar and capstain to swivel i would def swap. I test mine by picking up weights;tells you accurately the strength of your knot.

[BLOOEY]

Bimini twist double, uni to uni for the leader and a harrisons loop to the lure in the lighter stuff for me.
Carnster have you tried the P.R. knot for heavier gear. I use it on 30lb braid and 60lb and up leader. I feel supremely confident that this knot will not slip and retain almost all breaking strain of the mainline. A bugger to tie when you start but an absolute ripper!
Scalem i have used that knot before and found that it slipped when wet. I see that they mentioned that and said to use superglue to stop it from doing so. Pretty suss on a knot that requires glue to hold it. Ben

[Blythy]

Mate you've got a nice little combo there, if you're joining a heavy mono to fine braid, i defiantly recommend using a double to the leader, I had similar problems to you awhile back when i dropped the size of my main line and started having the leader pull through, haven’t had a problem since I started using the double.
As others have said i think your leader is a bit heavy, I use 10-12lb leader and 8lb braid, a bimini double too an improved albright, and a perfection loop for the jig head, I use a 1/8th 1/0-3/0 jig head. I jump up to 14lb when I fish for snapper and jacks, I rarely have any problems. Good luck, look forward to seeing a report from you soon.

[nathank]

Mate what knots were you using catching those 1000 barra up north?

Braid->leader - double-uni

and leader->jig head uni knot.

Knot section (hints tips; animated knots) has how to tie them, as does plenty of other sites(google)

Mick


Cant even read past the first post....... from my own real experiences my knots dont come undone.. im sorry mate but jeeeeeeeeez flathead rigs.......... like mick says how did you catch them 1000's of barra

[Chris1984]

Cant even read past the first post....... from my own real experiences my knots dont come undone.. im sorry mate but jeeeeeeeeez flathead rigs.......... like mick says how did you catch them 1000's of barra

Hey jackass why don't you read the post i wrote back to the guy, there was nothing finess about the way we used to catch Barra in the gulf, abu 5600, 100 pound braid with a blood knot to a wire trace with a locked up drag.
I'm new to plastics and am looking for information from what other PLASTICS fisherman do. If you have nothing positive to say pissoff.

[nathank]

Haha.. no worries mate. good luck with your flathead knots not coming undone.... Anyway.. spiderhitch with double the twists onto an albright knot should keep em attached lol.

[carnster]

I give the pr knot a go thanks Ben. Does it work ok on 10lb braid to 30lb mono? BTW chris and Nathan if you guys ever meet on the water can i get a front row seat? HE HE

[Chris1984]

There is to much violence in this world now without fighting over a passtime like fishing. Anyway im heading over to the mainland side of the brige now to fish the last couple of hours of the runout tide with some new knots and new ideas. Ill let you's know how i go.

[carnster]

Good luck mate.

[nathank]

Yeah same, i hope you know Chris im hav'n a bit of a go because of a comment about Jack Erskine.. its all in good fun and im not serious at all. Good luck mate and hope your knots hold up..(sorry had to chuck it in there)

[Chris1984]

Well it was gusting about 45 kts over at bribie so i just played around really and tried to perfect my knots. I got a couple of hits but nothing spectacular and got a few snags which tested my knots out and i think i'm pretty right with them now. I ended up using an albright knot for my braid to leader and a perfection loop for the jig. I also bought some 6 pound fire line and 10 pound flurocarbon leader. Can't wait to get a good morning sesion in. Hey Nathank, no dramas mate but i had never heard of Jack before and i don't believe i bad mouthed him anyway but yes i have researched him now and he does have quite the resume;D

[BLOOEY]

I give the pr knot a go thanks Ben. Does it work ok on 10lb braid to 30lb mono? BTW chris and Nathan if you guys ever meet on the water can i get a front row seat? HE HE

Havn't tried it on less than 20lb braid mate i would think it might be a little difficult! Can only give it a crack though. Ben

[ddobson]

Chris you are onto a good start so i will put my 2 bob in;
1st i would use flouro carbon leader not just mono from tackle box as they might see some colour in your line. 2nd i use a 5 turn surgeons knot from braid to leader (and it is easy as hell to do as i need to do them at night in big swell with low light and the knot to jighead shuld be a loop knot which is pretty easy to do as well as the plastic should flop around loosely when you twitch (but a blood knt wll do fine until you get it right) but at least you got hok ups on these new fandangle bit and pieces that are taking over most of us. Good luck and have fun with it at least you will feel the fight now you have braid. Cheers DD...

[Falz87]

I only use albright for Braid to leader, especially when using light line, i hav found that uni to uni, the braid cuts through the leader quite easily, nothing pisses u off more when that happens as u lose ur jig head aswell as all ur leader.

I also go a loop knot from leader to jig head, just like hardbodies, i reckon they swim better.

[Mullet Musketeer]

Mate what knots were you using catching those 1000 barra up north?

Braid->leader - double-uni

and leader->jig head uni knot.

Knot section (hints tips; animated knots) has how to tie them, as does plenty of other sites(google)

Mick

That would be my choice too. The uni knot is pretty simple once you get teh hang of it and you can pretty much use it for everything.

Chris - You need to drop the jighead size down a bit to 1/8th or 1/6th and also I would recommend a dedicated fluorocarbon leader - around 12lb.

[nathank]

loopknot.. the easiest one is a half hitch ahead of the tie point then put back through.. then a simple uni knot and pull tight.. knot sure what its called (excuse the pun)