Snapper tagging. benefits ?

[Lucky_Phill]

Hi folks,

Just thinking out loud here.

In Central Queensland and in fact all through out Queensland we have had and are currently undertaking " fish tagging ". Different species are targeted and the data collected from this is used to enhance anecdotal evidence and other research to establish some form of input for modeling.

What I am wondering is:-

Should we undertake and major up scaling of Snapper tagging in Queensland waters, but more importantly, what would the benefits of this action achieve or hope to achieve. A 1 -10 year program supported by recreational anglers with data collection done by private enterprise.

Lots to think about here:-

Funding is a major one of course.

Question therefore for those that would like to respond:-


What would the benefits to the Snapper fishery be from a major tagging program ?



Regards


Phill
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[samson]

I don't think it would do much as the grouth rates,spawning seasons and migratory runs are already known the only thing that needs knowing is fish numbers and fish tagging can't help find that out so i think the money and time would just be wasted and be better spent on other varieties that haven't been studied as much.

[Bill_Corten]

There is a certain amount of information presently available from snapper tagging. It seems that in a majority and certainly not all cases, the species is recaptured within a short distance of initial recapture based on existing tagging data. Having said that, there have been some unusually big travellers recaptured a long way from the initial capture point. A broader tagging program conducted using a fair range of fish sizes released in estuaries, bays and offshore reefs would provide a lot more information about the spatial movement of the species that would confirm or otherwise the broadly held beliefs of scientists.
Worth a shot in my opinion.

Regards
Bill

[Lovey80]

I think that there shouldn't be any harm in promoting it. I for one would like to know more on what is required to start tagging Snapper, what are the costs involved and where do I get my kit and where do I send the info.

There can't be that many tagging Snapper can there?

Cheers

Chris

[sleepygreg]

Chris

Try the following link to get the lowdown on the question you have asked.

https://www.info-fish.net/

Cheers

Greg

[Lovey80]

Thanks Greg,

at the very least the tagging program may highlight the high numbers of undersize Squire that get released every year.

[samson]

just remember what happened with the grey nurse tagging program they used recapture rates of tagged fish to discracfully close off areas and protect the species i think you could be opening a pandorers box if too high percentage of tagged fish get recaptured and you'll be paying for the research that ultimately could close down the fishery for ever i say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Lucky_Phill]

just remember what happened with the grey nurse tagging program they used recapture rates of tagged fish to discracfully close off areas and protect the species i think you could be opening a pandorers box if too high percentage of tagged fish get recaptured and you'll be paying for the research that ultimately could close down the fishery for ever i say if it ain't broke don't fix it.


Interesting..... thanks.




LP.

[tunaticer]

For me, I would happily be a part of the tagging process, BUT I have concerns that a fair percentage of persons that may take part in the system would not be efficient in administering the tags, collecting the data and returning the fish to the water in short time frames hence not giving the fish a fighting chance at survival.
If there was a quicker, easier application and data collection system in place that would remove half of the time spent out of the water it would be much better.

As a side note, I do not think that large amounts of any sort of research will competently accurise fish stocks, it will still be a fairly large guestimate at the end of the day on what exists, we will have a more concise figure for captures though.

Deep water fisheries hold the largest problem for any c&r research, barotrauma will negate large numbers of released tagged fish. How do you suggest this problem be tackled?
Are the days of deep water rec fishing numbered just because of barotrauma and bag / size limits?

[Jaffo]

I Tagged a lot of fish through ANSA over the past years, then I stopped due to the info gathered was being used against fishermen. Areas were we tagged good numbers of fish are now green zones. I will not talk to the people doing survays at boat ramps, if you tell them I landed 10 snapper then you are catching to many reduce bag limits or did not catch any Snapper then stocks must be low ban fishing. Dammed if you do and dammed if you dont

[Charlie]

.............

[Big Deez]

Hi Phil
I think that a potential benefit from a tagging program would be if released snapper suffering from barotrauma were treated and tagged. Taggers could be given info about the methods used to mitigate barotrauma such as venting, shot release, Coucum's cage, etc along with a simple treatment protocol. Taggers could then treat fish and release them according to the treatment protocol and record the relevant data. Also it would be important to tag and release fish suffering from barotrauma without any treatment. This would then provide estimates of relative survival from each of the treatments compared to untreated fish.

As an example, 10,000 fish are tagged and released, with 2,500 treated by either venting, shot release and coucum's cage as well as 2,500 not treated. The returns could then be used to assess which treatment is best, if any. This sort of data would be very helpful.

[oldboot]

Until the government learns to communicate with the public properly, has a quantum change in attitude and rightfully gains the confidence of the majority of anglers.......there simply is no point.

cheers

[Jono_SS]

Until the government learns to communicate with the public properly, has a quantum change in attitude and rightfully gains the confidence of the majority of anglers.......there simply is no point.

cheers

Phill was proposing a community-run exercise, so I guess he was asking if rec fishers can see any benefit to tagging snapper and the rec fishers collecting the associated info, independently of the government. From the responses so far, it would seem "not really"...certainly not a lot of people, anyway...

Maybe some of those who already tag large numbers of fish could explain the benefits they see?

Jono.

[pickers]

Phil
a big fat zilch
you would be better off turning your efforts some where else...like educating these idiots that make the laws that are USELESS.
pickers

[Platitudinus]

Not so good on the 36's off Goldie as the Dolphins snatch any fish returned .
Cheers
Plato

[oldboot]

regardless of who does the work, gatherers and processes the information and administeres the programe, unless it results in wise, practical, equatable and honest management of the fishery, it is pointless.

At this point in time there is a rightfull disrespect of the government and fisheries departments, and an expectation that any information or statistics will bent to suit the departmental view and end up with a bad outcome for recreational anglers, with unreliable benifits to the fishery.

Of course the big quastion is who is going to finance it, and it requires some sort of "credible scientific ovesight", where will that come from.

OH
BTW, has anybody heard of any nationwide recreational bassed tuna tagging programe...apart from on a popularist fishing TV programe.

It is suposed to exist and included on line logging of tagging and catches.

cheers

[Jono_SS]

regardless of who does the work, gatherers and processes the information and administeres the programe, unless it results in wise, practical, equatable and honest management of the fishery, it is pointless.

At this point in time there is a rightfull disrespect of the government and fisheries departments, and an expectation that any information or statistics will bent to suit the departmental view and end up with a bad outcome for recreational anglers, with unreliable benifits to the fishery.

Of course the big quastion is who is going to finance it, and it requires some sort of "credible scientific ovesight", where will that come from.

OH
BTW, has anybody heard of any nationwide recreational bassed tuna tagging programe...apart from on a popularist fishing TV programe.

It is suposed to exist and included on line logging of tagging and catches.

cheers

There are some sensible/wise words in there Oldboot.

re the tuna program, do you mean the one referred to in this post?

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=160351

being run by the CSIRO?

cheers.

Jonathan.

[oldboot]

Yep that's the one.

As I have been saying... the big issue is not one pertaining to any specific spicies, it is one that is cultrual and indemic.

All the information gathering things that have been proposed for snapper are or have been done for something else or somewhere else.

The fundamental issue is one of the relationship between the government and the users of the resource.

The fundamental problem is that the environment and by association the fishery is managed primarily for political advantage rather than primarily for the proven benifit of the environment and fishery and those who use both.

It can be reasonably argued that overseas lobby groups like the PEW Environmental Trust, have more say in our environmental and fisheries management than the proven actual stake holders that are actually engaged in the envioronment and fishery.


Government needs to stop pissing about with little isolated programes.

If a tagging exercise is to be set up, why not for a whole range of spiecies and nationwide, there would have to be improvements in the economies of scale.

If any sort of research into the role of the recreational angler is to be undertaken, again why piss arround with one spicies like snapper.

BUT for anything meaningfull to be achieved, the close co-operation and willing compliance of the majority of recreational anglers is required.

Unfortunatly, that requires a level of good will toward the government on fisheries matters, good will that governments both state and federal have been pissing away for years, in persuit of green preferences and in favour of emotionaly bassed overseas backed green ideas.

As it stands, I do not believe the state fisheries department does anything that it is not required to do under commonwealth legeslation.
All these reviews and stock assessments, are all done as a requirement, in a form specified by and on a time scale set down under commonwealth legeslation.

Think about what usefull science could have been done with all the money spent on the Moreton Bay Marine park fiasco...... a marine park rezoning that they don't even have the budjet to properly sign or enforce.

Think about all the money spent on advertising, printing brocures and maps...and of couse all those media adviser and consultant salaries.

How many full time jobs ya recon there are in that Tuna Tagging programe... 1 maybe 2.

cheers

[Inlike]

I Think they should raise the keep size to 40 or 45 . As far as I'm concerned there is not much on a 35cm squire anayway.. You do'nt here them talking Red Emperor since they went 55cm....:-? ..Paul....rbafc..