sustainable fishing ideas for the future

[popgun19]

The Government is heading on a path that is not required. Things are going to get harder each year, they seem to have tunnel vision and a one track mindset, bag limits will continue to get smaller, green zones bigger and closures longer.

Too many people just rant and rave when changes take place, before the lock outs, bag restrictions and green zones get any worse, Lets all put forward our ideas on a sustainable solution for the current situation.

Mods feel free to make this a sticky.

Cheers,

Brian

[popgun19]

We can log forests and then regrow them with seedlings, we can breed endangered animals in captivity and release them back into the wild, we can create barra farms, we can do it with crocodiles, we can have great Freashwater restocking programs in our dams.

We Must look at saltwater restocking programs on a mass scale, surely it can be done. If we keep putting seeds into the ground we will reep a great harvest, WAKE UP AND LETS GET BEHIND IT !!!!!

The desalination plants were to be built at the following locations at Marcoola, on the Sunshine Coast, Lytton, at the Port of Brisbane, Bribie Island and at Tugun on the Gold coast. I don't know how many were completed but each one cost about 2 billion. They are all sitting idle and will be for at least the next 20 years.

A desal plant pumps saltwater from the ocean, so why doesn't Anna Build a shed or use the existing sheds and build some holding tanks on on each one, create a few jobs and generate billions of dollars by creating a RRF restocking programme.
Locations are perfect for releasing fingerlings back into the wild also.

benefits:

CREATE JOBS IN THE PLANTS
KEEP REC, CHARTER AND PRO FISHERS HAPPY AND GENERATING INCOME FOR QLD
CREATE A SUSTAINABLE FISHERY FOR FUTURE
GENERATE BILLIONS FOR THE SEAFOOD INDUSTY IN QLD THROUGH SALES AROUND AUSTRALIA AND EVEN AN EXPORT MARKET
GENERATES MORE JOBS AND INCOME THROUGH TACKLE STORE SALES, FUEL, BAKERIES, BOAT YARDS ETC
NO NEED FOR GREEN ZONES ALSO KEEPS THE GREENS HAPPY
BAG LIMITS OF SOME SOUGHT WOULD STILL NEED TO BE IN PLACE
MARRIAGES SAVED (wives can have a break from us while we fish)I KNOW IT IS NOT AN ISTANT FIX, but in 10 years we could be bagging out on coral trout and reds in the brizzy river ! win, win, win for all Queenlanders.

Does anyone have some ideas or knowledge on this topic that they can share ?

For those on here that have contact with the libs and labour feel free to pass this on if you think it is a good idea.

Cheers,

Brian

[dnej]

Its interesting, the port of Brisbane extension, when they built the rock wall circle, with one small opening, after a while, the pond was netted, then netted again sometime later. The second time. 13tonnes of fish were netted and released. The opening to the sea was only very small. So If that works, why not create more of those type ponds. Its easy enough, and self sustaining.
David

[FNQCairns]

Cannot work because the greens want all fishing over and done with, any help that allows the sport/pastime/gathering to continue goes directly against their core beliefs.

Bligh is a dyed in the wool radical greenie with all of the stick it up the people social and basic human justice beliefs that go along with that ideology/religion.

Short of the above restocking will make no difference, the take could be argued to be so small ((small scale localised impacts excluded eg a jetty) as to be no higher again than typical mortality from whatever cause over any year...this lack of life pressure on all organisms decreases competiton for space and food and effectively turbcharges the population.

Even with the junk science surrounding the snapper where they cherry picked the data to include and then forced it into a algorithm un-suited to anything in the southern hemisphere with a few designer tweeks to ensure the prerequired outcome........the shortfall is only two snapper farms short.....was the best (worst) outcome they could design given even the ideology government/not for profit organisations scientists operate under today.

Better IMO to worry about the threat climate change advocates pose to all our future survival.

[Lovey80]

1. Ban all Commercial netting in Enclosed waters and Beaches

2. Begin a massive habitat creation program (artificial reefs)

3. Saltwater stocking of inshore species like Jew, Mangrove Jacks etc (waste of time for offshore species IMHO).

[coola]

Hi Popgun19
Brilliant idea, one day we will wake up and vote in people who are smart and will rid our coastlines of illegal fishing,yellow rain coat poachers etc. we should all push for great ideas, I can't wait for the do-gooders and lazy greenies to bag this one.
COOLA:P

[oldboot]

It has been known a proven that properly managed forestry is one of the most sustainable sources of building material we have.

But the greenies are strobly opposed to any form of logging.

so what hope has open water fish sticking got.

cheers

[NAGG]

We can log forests and then regrow them with seedlings, we can breed endangered animals in captivity and release them back into the wild, we can create barra farms, we can do it with crocodiles, we can have great Freashwater restocking programs in our dams.

We Must look at saltwater restocking programs on a mass scale, surely it can be done. If we keep putting seeds into the ground we will reep a great harvest, WAKE UP AND LETS GET BEHIND IT !!!!!

The desalination plants were to be built at the following locations at Marcoola, on the Sunshine Coast, Lytton, at the Port of Brisbane, Bribie Island and at Tugun on the Gold coast. I don't know how many were completed but each one cost about 2 billion. They are all sitting idle and will be for at least the next 20 years.

A desal plant pumps saltwater from the ocean, so why doesn't Anna Build a shed or use the existing sheds and build some holding tanks on on each one, create a few jobs and generate billions of dollars by creating a RRF restocking programme.
Locations are perfect for releasing fingerlings back into the wild also.

benefits:
CREATE JOBS IN THE PLANTS
KEEP REC, CHARTER AND PRO FISHERS HAPPY AND GENERATING INCOME FOR QLD
CREATE A SUSTAINABLE FISHERY FOR FUTURE
GENERATE BILLIONS FOR THE SEAFOOD INDUSTY IN QLD THROUGH SALES AROUND AUSTRALIA AND EVEN AN EXPORT MARKET
GENERATES MORE JOBS AND INCOME THROUGH TACKLE STORE SALES, FUEL, BAKERIES, BOAT YARDS ETC
NO NEED FOR GREEN ZONES ALSO KEEPS THE GREENS HAPPY
BAG LIMITS OF SOME SOUGHT WOULD STILL NEED TO BE IN PLACE
MARRIAGES SAVED (wives can have a break from us while we fish)I KNOW IT IS NOT AN ISTANT FIX, but in 10 years we could be bagging out on coral trout and reds in the brizzy river ! win, win, win for all Queenlanders.

Does anyone have some ideas or knowledge on this topic that they can share ?

For those on here that have contact with the libs and labour feel free to pass this on if you think it is a good idea.

Cheers,

Brian

People just need to go and have a look at the NSW Fisheries web site to read what is possible via a well managed licence scheme ....... this is the first step taken in improving our fisheries........ put money into it! .. A BROKE government will never do it ,,,,, so it needs to come via the rec fishoes (NSW raises on average $10,000,000 annually via the licence) - with a well run Trust - things could improve big time.

Chris

[marty666]

how about more policing of bag and size limits, i have never been checked ever. i have never even see any one who does the checking. I hear of people bagging out there limits and then taking home and freezing there catch, what is the point of doing this you might as well not even taken the excess home as it will no longer be fresh when you go to eat it. Bringing in the licenses will only stop the honest you need to catch the dishonest and prosecute to the full extend sell there gear and boats.

[Lovey80]

Marty, while I agree far more policing needs to be done there are pleanty that will freeze fish as they don't get a chance to getout often enough to keep fresh fish on the table for a variety of reasons. There are pleanty of fish that if treated well after capture. Ie bleed gut gill ice slurry asap will eat just as well frozen as fresh.

[marty666]

Marty, while I agree far more policing needs to be done there are pleanty that will freeze fish as they don't get a chance to getout often enough to keep fresh fish on the table for a variety of reasons. There are pleanty of fish that if treated well after capture. Ie bleed gut gill ice slurry asap will eat just as well frozen as fresh.

i just see it as greedy. i have seen a pic at work one of the guys brought in, his son and boss went fishing and filled the driveway with there catch laid out, now they were with in bag limits and legal sizes and so on but there was that much fish they gave it to friends and froze heaps of it, to me that should be stopped as it has gone past the point of going out for a fish to have a fun time and catch a feed to just being greedy. I personally only keep what can be consumed that night so that there will be fish for my kids and there kids to catch in the future.

[Spot82]

how about more policing of bag and size limits, i have never been checked ever. i have never even see any one who does the checking. I hear of people bagging out there limits and then taking home and freezing there catch, what is the point of doing this you might as well not even taken the excess home as it will no longer be fresh when you go to eat it. Bringing in the licenses will only stop the honest you need to catch the dishonest and prosecute to the full extend sell there gear and boats.

I don't know what fish you have eaten after if has been frozen but most reef fish if packaged properly will freeze extremely well and if defrosted in the fridge tastes as good as fresh. Most seafood you buy in shops has been frozen, and most people wouldn't know any better.

I eat fish three to four times a week on average, and most of my relatives do as well, we never waste any fish, and even use as many of the frames as we can for crab pot bait, steam backbones and wings and make the best home made fish cakes.

So I will continue to go out and catch a good feed once a month to feed myself and my extended family. We release anything we don't want and don't keep everything we catch. I'll happily go snapper fishing and release every fish, because Red Emperor or Coral Trout is far better to eat even after being frozen.

The governement cares more about revenue raising than enforcing the law, so unless they see they can make a good dollar out of it there will never be strong enforcement.

I also believe the best way to create sustainable fish stocks is to increase the amount of habitat through creation of artificial reefs. 98% of the ocean is basically desert, with very little life, especially if you look at areas like moreton bay, acres of sand, and anywhere where there is structure life is abundant! Create more structure = more habitat = more fish that can be sustained in the biomass = better fish stocks! It's not rocket science!

Anthony

[Lovey80]

People just need to go and have a look at the NSW Fisheries web site to read what is possible via a well managed licence scheme ....... this is the first step taken in improving our fisheries........ put money into it! .. A BROKE government will never do it ,,,,, so it needs to come via the rec fishoes (NSW raises on average $10,000,000 annually via the licence) - with a well run Trust - things could improve big time.

Chris

Thanks Chris but I did and posted some of the ridiculously wasteful projects those muppets in NSW spent some of those dollars on. Sure I would support I Licence like I have said again and again but nothing like how the NSW one is run.

[Lovey80]

i just see it as greedy. i have seen a pic at work one of the guys brought in, his son and boss went fishing and filled the driveway with there catch laid out, now they were with in bag limits and legal sizes and so on but there was that much fish they gave it to friends and froze heaps of it, to me that should be stopped as it has gone past the point of going out for a fish to have a fun time and catch a feed to just being greedy. I personally only keep what can be consumed that night so that there will be fish for my kids and there kids to catch in the future.

The thoughts of greed are your opinion. Remember these limits are in possession so if you manage to bag out on a species and chose to freeze them you are not allowed to take other one until they are eaten. Wether you catch fish for that night or chose to freeze some fillets it most likely not relevant to wether your kids and there kids will ever get to catch a fish or not. Many fish freeze very well to the point that the majority would not tell the difference between one of a fillet of caught that day fish and frozen thawed fillet that has been treated well from capture. Very Very few people are capable of hauls like you speak of and if they are within the law then so be it. Don't like it? write to your member for parliament and get the law changed instead of calling people greedy.

[Lovey80]

I don't know what fish you have eaten after if has been frozen but most reef fish if packaged properly will freeze extremely well and if defrosted in the fridge tastes as good as fresh. Most seafood you buy in shops has been frozen, and most people wouldn't know any better.

I eat fish three to four times a week on average, and most of my relatives do as well, we never waste any fish, and even use as many of the frames as we can for crab pot bait, steam backbones and wings and make the best home made fish cakes.

So I will continue to go out and catch a good feed once a month to feed myself and my extended family. We release anything we don't want and don't keep everything we catch. I'll happily go snapper fishing and release every fish, because Red Emperor or Coral Trout is far better to eat even after being frozen.

The governement cares more about revenue raising than enforcing the law, so unless they see they can make a good dollar out of it there will never be strong enforcement.

I also believe the best way to create sustainable fish stocks is to increase the amount of habitat through creation of artificial reefs. 98% of the ocean is basically desert, with very little life, especially if you look at areas like moreton bay, acres of sand, and anywhere where there is structure life is abundant! Create more structure = more habitat = more fish that can be sustained in the biomass = better fish stocks! It's not rocket science!

Anthony

Spot on mate my thoughts exactly!

[Gyarados]

The thoughts of greed are your opinion. Remember these limits are in possession so if you manage to bag out on a species and chose to freeze them you are not allowed to take other one until they are eaten. Wether you catch fish for that night or chose to freeze some fillets it most likely not relevant to wether your kids and there kids will ever get to catch a fish or not. Many fish freeze very well to the point that the majority would not tell the difference between one of a fillet of caught that day fish and frozen thawed fillet that has been treated well from capture. Very Very few people are capable of hauls like you speak of and if they are within the law then so be it. Don't like it? write to your member for parliament and get the law changed instead of calling people greedy.

Im with marty666 on this. Fishing to me is a sport, only ever catch and release. But your point of relevance to whether our childrens children will ever get to catch a feed or not, is in my opinion 100 percent relevant to fishers being greedy, simply because more fish out of the water = less fish breeding, in result we have a recklessly fished species which in turn effects our kids ability to catch a fish because we have greedy fisherman taking more than whats necessary to put a feed on the table for the night. I think the biggest thing is more habitat in my opinion. my 2 cents worth

brad

[coola]

I think we've very quickly have lost sight of the original post, we will never fix anything unless we stick together
coola::)

[NAGG]

how about more policing of bag and size limits, i have never been checked ever. i have never even see any one who does the checking. I hear of people bagging out there limits and then taking home and freezing there catch, what is the point of doing this you might as well not even taken the excess home as it will no longer be fresh when you go to eat it. Bringing in the licenses will only stop the honest you need to catch the dishonest and prosecute to the full extend sell there gear and boats.


Marty ..... if you honestly know that the law is being broken - call the authorities .... If you turn a blind eye to it - it will continue to go on !
Chris

[Lovey80]

Im with marty666 on this. Fishing to me is a sport, only ever catch and release. But your point of relevance to whether our childrens children will ever get to catch a feed or not, is in my opinion 100 percent relevant to fishers being greedy, simply because more fish out of the water = less fish breeding, in result we have a recklessly fished species which in turn effects our kids ability to catch a fish because we have greedy fisherman taking more than whats necessary to put a feed on the table for the night. I think the biggest thing is more habitat in my opinion. my 2 cents worth

brad

Size and in Possession limits are there for a reason. With all of the weather you get every year on top of the days you are not working etc etc by taking your limit within the law there should be absolutely no reason why fish stocks will not be around for the future.

I was merely stating that if people act within the limits of the law then there will be fish for the grandkids. Maybe it didn't come out right but thats what I meant.

This myth that people keep bandying about that just because someone catches their bag on a couple of species that it is reckless is just not true. You need to look at how often that person gets out, and how often they manage to pull that off. Not very often is likely.

Outside of the laws that are in place is a completely different story.

[NAGG]

i just see it as greedy. i have seen a pic at work one of the guys brought in, his son and boss went fishing and filled the driveway with there catch laid out, now they were with in bag limits and legal sizes and so on but there was that much fish they gave it to friends and froze heaps of it, to me that should be stopped as it has gone past the point of going out for a fish to have a fun time and catch a feed to just being greedy. I personally only keep what can be consumed that night so that there will be fish for my kids and there kids to catch in the future.

For my way of thinking - If you are giving fish away to family and friends ..... you have caught too much!!!!:(

Chris

[oldboot]

A few of the freezer filler practices of the past have been addressed in the most recet changes to size and bag limits.

I know of people who would bring home 30,40,50 or 100 bream or whiting in a trip.....I have seen blocks of whiting fillets bigger than my head.

check the latest size and bag limits.

As far as what is happening in NSW....QLD is very different........there are lots of costal rivers and lots of river fishing in NSW.

Most of the fishing in QLD is either bay ocean or estury fishing..and we dont have the numbers or types of rivers they have in NSW.

The attitude in NT is very progressive.....they have closed quite a few places to commercial fishing, and the recreational fishing up there has realy improved and there are heaps of Guiding businesses...many of the making more and not working as had as the did when they were pro's.

cheers

[NAGG]

Size and in Possession limits are there for a reason. With all of the weather you get every year on top of the days you are not working etc etc by taking your limit within the law there should be absolutely no reason why fish stocks will not be around for the future.1

I was merely stating that if people act within the limits of the law then there will be fish for the grandkids. Maybe it didn't come out right but thats what I meant.

This myth that people keep bandying about that just because someone catches their bag on a couple of species that it is reckless is just not true. You need to look at how often that person gets out, and how often they manage to pull that off. Not very often is likely.

Outside of the laws that are in place is a completely different story.

To me ..... the amount of time that you fish or how often you go out does not determine how much fish that you keep - There is nothing worst than hearing people bitch because they have big boats and it costs an arm and a leg to go out and catch fish ...... That is a personal choice! ..
The same goes with how often one fishes ..

I would love to see a KG limit for species / angler .....then a maximum - per angler 1 - say 20kgs per angler ...... If you catch a 20kg cobia - your keep total is done . If you catch 4 x 5kg snapper - your done - a single fish larger than the limit is allowed .... ie a 30kg spaniard - but that is it !
any more fish kept above this is just bull shite harvesting

Chris

[TheRealAndy]

Its interesting rading these post. You get this always:

Stop commercial netting.
Stop commercial fishing.
Increase sizes
Decrease Bag limits
Stop catching and freezing fish.
Introduce a licence.
.
.
.
Maybe first we should determine if there is actually a problem, and if there is, what is causing the problem. Until then its all just speculation.

I have spend a fair amount of time chatting with some fairly high profile scientists that seem to suggest that that the top few problems are habitat destruction and pollution.

[oldboot]

from what i understand in NZ there is a group bag limit on a group of spicies.

All the spicies have their own size and bag limits, and then you are allowd an overall bag of a specific group of spicies......other fish arent incluided in that bag.


Our new size and bags are too bad.


As far as there being a problem.......if there was a REAL sustainability problem.....fisheries would be jumping on it.


There is a heap of greenie promoted press pushing the idea that "the worlwide fishery is over fished"...... but that is a bit too general.....there are some places that are hammered...... but to tar us with the same brush as indonesia or the like is plain ignorant.

cheers

[NAGG]

from what i understand in NZ there is a group bag limit on a group of spicies.

All the spicies have their own size and bag limits, and then you are allowd an overall bag of a specific group of spicies......other fish arent incluided in that bag.


Our new size and bags are too bad.


As far as there being a problem.......if there was a REAL sustainability problem.....fisheries would be jumping on it.


There is a heap of greenie promoted press pushing the idea that "the worlwide fishery is over fished"...... but that is a bit too general.....there are some places that are hammered...... but to tar us with the same brush as indonesia or the like is plain ignorant.

cheers


Is there a problem ?

My oath there is ........ pretty well all over the east coast of Australia

Port Philip bay was renowned for catches of snapper well in excess of 20lb - and many of them

Moreton bay was exceptional sailfish fishery

Sydney harbour was known for its snapper during the 60s -

Yellow fin tuna were caught on the banks off Nowra & the peak in Sydney , humps off Stanwell park in regular numbers

NSW beaches were a mecca for 50-80lb mulloway

These are just a few things that I have been told by people in the know and fished over 5 decades.

none of these stand true in 2010

I had a chat with a mate yesterday who tried to convince me all was good because he catches the odd bag of legal snapper in Moreton bay - I'll take his word on it .... but they are juvinile fish - not mature 5-10kg fish that were prevelent during the 70s.
We have a growing population that own more boats- with advanced electronics .and the fishoes with the latest intel ( the net) How the Fu@& can anyone think that our fish stocks are not diminishing just amazes me ......... what do the fish think "hell we better shag more and produce more fry because the humans want to catch more of us!" ....... and all this on top of lost habitat and polution. At times I really think we are naive or just dumb!!!! ........

Chris

[Lovey80]

To me ..... the amount of time that you fish or how often you go out does not determine how much fish that you keep - There is nothing worst than hearing people bitch because they have big boats and it costs an arm and a leg to go out and catch fish ...... That is a personal choice! ..
The same goes with how often one fishes ..

I would love to see a KG limit for species / angler .....then a maximum - per angler 1 - say 20kgs per angler ...... If you catch a 20kg cobia - your keep total is done . If you catch 4 x 5kg snapper - your done - a single fish larger than the limit is allowed .... ie a 30kg spaniard - but that is it !
any more fish kept above this is just bull shite harvesting

Chris

Nagg,

don't you think that our current restrictions take that into account? How often people get out is not a personal choice really. People need to work and If QLD weather allowed people to get out much more than they do then I am sure the restrictions would be different. If you can only get out every few months and want to freeze your bag limit then what is the problem? Nature is protecting the fish stocks as much as our own restrictions are.

I'll leave your personal opinions about harvesting alone.

[PinHead]

Is there a problem ?

My oath there is ........ pretty well all over the east coast of Australia

Port Philip bay was renowned for catches of snapper well in excess of 20lb - and many of them

Moreton bay was exceptional sailfish fishery

Sydney harbour was known for its snapper during the 60s -

Yellow fin tuna were caught on the banks off Nowra & the peak in Sydney , humps off Stanwell park in regular numbers

NSW beaches were a mecca for 50-80lb mulloway

These are just a few things that I have been told by people in the know and fished over 5 decades.

none of these stand true in 2010

I had a chat with a mate yesterday who tried to convince me all was good because he catches the odd bag of legal snapper in Moreton bay - I'll take his word on it .... but they are juvinile fish - not mature 5-10kg fish that were prevelent during the 70s.
We have a growing population that own more boats- with advanced electronics .and the fishoes with the latest intel ( the net) How the Fu@& can anyone think that our fish stocks are not diminishing just amazes me ......... what do the fish think "hell we better shag more and produce more fry because the humans want to catch more of us!" ....... and all this on top of lost habitat and polution. At times I really think we are naive or just dumb!!!! ........

Chris

all those areas have one thing in common..close in areas that have been polluted by urban run off..perhaps one should look at these first.

if there are plenty of juvenile fish in Moreton bay then that says the snapper are breeding okay..perhaps an increase in size limit could be the answer.

Moreton bay in the 70's..the place was being dredged of the coral for the cement works..all the habitat was detroyed either partially or fully.

So is there a problem if I give some fish to my in laws..if I don't give them some then they go and buy it..what is the difference ?? NONE.

This holier than thou attitude of catch and release is a joke...quite a lot of fish die from the c&r brigade also..don't think you don't kill any..you do.

I fish..I eat fish and I obey the size and bag limit laws..if you don't like it..tough.

Estaury species such as bream whiting and flathead have noit declined..same as ever. The offshore blokes say the past snapper season has been the best for many years..so what is the problem? Moreton bay perhaps...anyone take note of the healthy rivers reports every year..they aren't improving..and where do they run to? Moreton bay. Surely that tells something.

[warrigul]

the pirates who have control of our beutiful state need a big wake up.
not so long ago with the flick of pen they deemed fox tail palms endandgerd.
mind you everyone knew the bloody things were everywhere.
with the flick of a pen some years later they were no longer endangerd no longer needing to be isssued with qld parks and wildlife number and tag.

my main concern is if this passionate state of qld does not erupt over this false evidence and lack there of, a general fishing licence will be hot on the heels of this licence.
why should a young kid from perth or sydney have to pay these pirations a fee to be able to use their christmas present, a hand line because they wanted soak a prawn in the maroochy river to catch a bream.
if anyone thinks this will not be next your are kidding.

we need to make these pirations feel un easy about thier job security to make a change.
there is only on way people power.
i pray that of the 800 000 fishers in this sunshine state at least that 100 000 get busy about making some noise next year before its to late.
the future is in our hands.
just remember they work for us. know very little about snapper and don't really care about a fish called a snapper. they just care about their jobs.

don't debate the data, these guys have been on debate teams teams since school.
they know they don't have to be right to win the debate.

people power, next year, time to make some noise.
god bless you all and your familys this christmas.

[webby]

The biggest problems in Moreton Bay in order are-
1 Pollution caused by run off (industrial, urban), dredging and sand mining.
2. Commercial Fishing (both in the rivers and bay)
3. Over populated (boat numbers have tripled in the last 5 years and increasing)
4. The Destruction of Habitats by Port of Brisbane.
5. Illegal fishing.
regards

[NAGG]

Nagg,

don't you think that our current restrictions take that into account? How often people get out is not a personal choice really. People need to work and If QLD weather allowed people to get out much more than they do then I am sure the restrictions would be different. If you can only get out every few months and want to freeze your bag limit then what is the problem? Nature is protecting the fish stocks as much as our own restrictions are.

I'll leave your personal opinions about harvesting alone.

At times I really feel that it is just that ...... These days I dont spend much time in the rust water but when you stay at a caravan park (eg : Cardwell & Lucinda) and see sometimes 2 or 3 big eskies unloaded (empty)
then you just know what their intention is.
We see it on the barra dams too - funny to see an esky as wide as the tinny. A recent trip a guy who set up camp next to us ..... outright said that he had run out of barra fillets and drove from Warwick to Awoonga to fill up with barra - He would stay till he filled the ice boxes and fridge. These types of examples help form my opinion
You dont think 20kg of fish per person is enough ?

The restrictions go part of the way to fixing the problem . ..... and btw , the problem goes back to past fishing practices 10, 20 ,30 years ago .
How often one fishes in my way of thinking is a personal choice ..... you can still fish somewhere even when conditions are bad ( but lets face it ..... this year is part of a cycle - and we have be subjected to the poor weather associated with La nina - who knows what next year will be like or when we get the next El nino pattern) - I might be wrong but are the regs ever set on the basis of weather :-?
Chris

[NAGG]

all those areas have one thing in common..close in areas that have been polluted by urban run off..perhaps one should look at these first.

if there are plenty of juvenile fish in Moreton bay then that says the snapper are breeding okay..perhaps an increase in size limit could be the answer.

Moreton bay in the 70's..the place was being dredged of the coral for the cement works..all the habitat was detroyed either partially or fully.

So is there a problem if I give some fish to my in laws..if I don't give them some then they go and buy it..what is the difference ?? NONE.

This holier than thou attitude of catch and release is a joke...quite a lot of fish die from the c&r brigade also..don't think you don't kill any..you do.

I fish..I eat fish and I obey the size and bag limit laws..if you don't like it..tough.

Estaury species such as bream whiting and flathead have noit declined..same as ever. The offshore blokes say the past snapper season has been the best for many years..so what is the problem? Moreton bay perhaps...anyone take note of the healthy rivers reports every year..they aren't improving..and where do they run to? Moreton bay. Surely that tells something.

I certainly dont see myself as "holier than thou" and have nothing against people who take a feed - with a little luck I should be fanging on some nice jack , jew or thready in less than a week:P
I just believe in moderation ....... and with an increasing population , improvements in technology , higher boat ownership etc etc - Combined with commercial practices , habitat destruction and polution ... I have doubts about sustainability in SE Qld.
NSW is seeing a turn around ...... but they made changes:)

Chris

[marty666]

Marty ..... if you honestly know that the law is being broken - call the authorities .... If you turn a blind eye to it - it will continue to go on !
Chris

the thing is they were not braking the law but the take was hugh it is simple fish out of water do not breed.

[NAGG]

the thing is they were not braking the law but the take was hugh it is simple fish out of water do not breed.

Qld bag limits are also posession limits ..... So you are not allowed to have in your freezer more than the daily bag limit - Policing it would be difficult but people are caught . I have been searched at my campsite - down on the Eucumbene in NSW - They were there to enforce the trophy fish status ( 1 fish in posession over 50cm). I have heard that up North they do the occasional roadside raid :)

Chris

[warrigul]

piratitions, not pirations learn to spell u idiot.
hey hang on thats me duh.:-?

[Lovey80]

Nagg you certainly portray a Holier than thou attitude. Your moral stance against taking a large haul of fish is irrelevant to the sustainability of fish stocks. For example one could go out and take home 100kg of Mahi Mahi and there would be very very little done to dent the sustainability of Mahi Mahi in QLD waters. They are one of the fastest breeding, fastest growing, great fighting and great eating fish in the ocean. If someone wants to grab a big bag of Mahi Mahi and pass on what they don't need to friends and family I have no problems with that. The Mahi will be there next year and the year after (yes they will be) so your resistance to taking more than 20kg in this example is simply a moral one not a sustainability one.

As for your other examples, please leave the other states out of this. The other states don't manage our fishery. Also you need to consider that in the 70's there were very little restrictions on Rec Anglers. The majority of rules and regulations we have now have come in the last 15 years. I don't give two hoots what happened in the 70's because the mistakes were realised and we have learnt from it. What is important now is are our current Rules, Regulations and sustainability measures doing the job.?

On some accounts I say yes on others I say no. But to bring in a religious reasoning for doing or not doing something to do with sustainability is not nessessary and counter productive.

On the Snapper sizes of the past, I agree with you. As I have stated already in this thread Snapper are a slow growing fish. The previous restrictions of 35cm and a bag of 5 will take time to show results. We have not come close to seeing the results of those changes. I personally would not mind a 40cm minimum length on Snapper. Sure for 2-3 or so years it would mean a lot of returned fish but after that the benefit of more larger fish in the fishery would be a benefit to all. There is also evidence on a genetic level that us taking all the larger fish is effecting the genetic make up on some species. Snapper is not immune. Seeing a bag of 5 with a minimum of 40cm and 2 fish over 65cm would help on all accounts.

But of course if that were to become law, you would still not be happy. Even though the Snapper fishery is better off for it a person would eventually be taking home more and more KG of fish on a good trip and that does not bode well for your conscience.

time to take the feelings out of it and think with the head.

[tropicrows]

The governement cares more about revenue raising than enforcing the law, so unless they see they can make a good dollar out of it there will never be strong enforcement.

I also believe the best way to create sustainable fish stocks is to increase the amount of habitat through creation of artificial reefs. 98% of the ocean is basically desert, with very little life, especially if you look at areas like moreton bay, acres of sand, and anywhere where there is structure life is abundant! Create more structure = more habitat = more fish that can be sustained in the biomass = better fish stocks! It's not rocket science!

Anthony

Spot on Anthony, I could not agree more......

[oldboot]

One thing we have to remember is that the fishery is a very large system....and as such responds slowly to changes.
there are big changes that have obvious immediate effects..... but thay aso have long term effects that roll on for ages.
And those small sensible measures.....they take a very long time to realy bite.

Now we hear about the seventies.
Yeh there was lots a stuff happening in the seventies, both good and bad and we are wearing the cost and benifits of those too.

There has been massive development in the catchments since the seventies.
There has been huge improvements in polution controll since the seventies

There have been very big changes in size & bag limits since the seventies.

Possibly the single biggest help to our fishery in recent times is this big fresh that has flushed the rivers out.

There was lots of stuff that came back in the brisbane river after the 74 flood that had not been seen for decades.

People are forgetting we have not had consistent heavy rains like we are having now since the 80's.

As for the bay......ya just have to look at what the enormous reclamation of the fisherman island port has done to water flows across the front of wynnum.

Look at all the habit that has been lost since the 70's
all that swamp and mangrove habitat that went under
the new airport
the new port
Raby bay and other bay canal developments

And the immense volumes of sand bank that were dredged up for reclaim....and the disruption that caused.

those that fish the back of green, mud & st helina........all that used to be acres upon acres of reef......all dredged up and made into cement.
Ya recon those nice well defined steps out the back of green are natural.

YEH we are wearing lots of effects of the years past.

remember back in the 70's there was no bag limit on crabs and you could run as many pots as you like as a rec crabber.....I know blokes in Townsville who used to go out with 20 pots.

Same with unlimited catches of taylor........visions of Frazer island crawling with the long rods and blokes with tuckerbox freezers full of taylor...and that is not so long ago.

and lots of this stuff did not change untill quite recently.

Ya have to get it all in perspective.....the last thing we need is highly publicised, vote winning knee jerk fisheries management like we are seeing with the "Snapper" issue.

We are swinging from too little too late, to tooo much that wont work.

We need to slow down a little, listen, observe, think and manage for the long term..... not for the next election.

cheers

[Ben D]

Nagg you certainly portray a Holier than thou attitude. Your moral stance against taking a large haul of fish is irrelevant to the sustainability of fish stocks. For example one could go out and take home 100kg of Mahi Mahi and there would be very very little done to dent the sustainability of Mahi Mahi in QLD waters. They are one of the fastest breeding, fastest growing, great fighting and great eating fish in the ocean. If someone wants to grab a big bag of Mahi Mahi and pass on what they don't need to friends and family I have no problems with that. The Mahi will be there next year and the year after (yes they will be) so your resistance to taking more than 20kg in this example is simply a moral one not a sustainability one

Ummm, its probably Ok if just one person goes out and takes 100 kg of Mahi mahi, but there are many tens of thousands of fishos in SE QLD alone . Say there are a conservative 5000 in QLD with boats who can get to mahi mahi, if they all did that one year, now thats 5000 x 100 kg and you have 500,000 kg of mahi mahi coming out of the fishery. Dunno about you, but I think 500 tonnes of mahi mahi coming out of the fishery along the QLD coast might dent the stock a little in the short term by the time they get down to SE QLD, despite mahi mahi being one of the fastest growing and most prolific spawners in the ocean. To suggest that sustained heavy fishing does not impact on a fish population is simply naive...

Fisheries management is a best guess process and the benefits of being more conservative with bag and size limits should mean more fish in the water (hopefully breeding). Now, whether the water and habitat quality remains high enough for those eggs and larvae to survive, that is another matter entirely. Sustainable fisheries management requires maintaining enough breeding sized fish to produce excess eggs, and keeping habitat and water quality high enough to ensure the life cycle is completed. The health of the whole food chain from plankton up relies on clean water - this is why the healthy waterways results are (unfortunately) the barometer for the health of our inshore fisheries. Because the water and habitat quality is declining, so will the productivity of the fisheries that rely on them (e.g. snapper), meaning that tighter bag limits closures etc are inevitable unless the underlying habitat and water issues are addressed.

[marty666]

Its interesting rading these post. You get this always:
Stop commercial netting.
Stop commercial fishing.
Increase sizes
Decrease Bag limits
Stop catching and freezing fish.
Introduce a licence.
.
.
.Maybe first we should determine if there is actually a problem, and if there is, what is causing the problem. Until then its all just speculation.

I have spend a fair amount of time chatting with some fairly high profile scientists that seem to suggest that that the top few problems are habitat destruction and pollution.


Ummm the 6 week no take on snapper and two other spices that is starting in February maybe a good sign that the government thinks there is a problem, Hey if there is no self control by the rec fishos then guess what the government steps in and does it, we can change our own ways and not have more pointless hoops to jump through or wait and then have licenses or longer no take periods. Is there even a lobby group for fishing where are they hiding

[NAGG]

Nagg you certainly portray a Holier than thou attitude. Your moral stance against taking a large haul of fish is irrelevant to the sustainability of fish stocks. For example one could go out and take home 100kg of Mahi Mahi and there would be very very little done to dent the sustainability of Mahi Mahi in QLD waters. They are one of the fastest breeding, fastest growing, great fighting and great eating fish in the ocean. If someone wants to grab a big bag of Mahi Mahi and pass on what they don't need to friends and family I have no problems with that. The Mahi will be there next year and the year after (yes they will be) so your resistance to taking more than 20kg in this example is simply a moral one not a sustainability one.

As for your other examples, please leave the other states out of this. The other states don't manage our fishery. Also you need to consider that in the 70's there were very little restrictions on Rec Anglers. The majority of rules and regulations we have now have come in the last 15 years. I don't give two hoots what happened in the 70's because the mistakes were realised and we have learnt from it. What is important now is are our current Rules, Regulations and sustainability measures doing the job.?



time to take the feelings out of it and think with the head.


Having fished a fair bit for Mahi Mahi ...... it is very easy to wipe them out of an area - If we fished the fads or fish trap floats and the word was out that the dollies were on - BANG! ..... they would cop a floggin and all you would catch were little tackers . Besides dollies dont freeze up that well and are best eaten fresh.

To ignore what has happened in the past or not to take notice of what other states are doing to improve their fisheries is not real smart ...... specially when some of these fisheries overlap.



What is important now is are our current Rules, Regulations and sustainability measures doing the job.? ......... spot on! - but are they working ???

I want someone to show me the science that the SE Qld fisheries are in a healthy state !

Chris

[Lovey80]

Ummm, its probably Ok if just one person goes out and takes 100 kg of Mahi mahi, but there are many tens of thousands of fishos in SE QLD alone . Say there are a conservative 5000 in QLD with boats who can get to mahi mahi, if they all did that one year, now thats 5000 x 100 kg and you have 500,000 kg of mahi mahi coming out of the fishery. Dunno about you, but I think 500 tonnes of mahi mahi coming out of the fishery along the QLD coast might dent the stock a little in the short term by the time they get down to SE QLD, despite mahi mahi being one of the fastest growing and most prolific spawners in the ocean. To suggest that sustained heavy fishing does not impact on a fish population is simply naive...

Fisheries management is a best guess process and the benefits of being more conservative with bag and size limits should mean more fish in the water (hopefully breeding). Now, whether the water and habitat quality remains high enough for those eggs and larvae to survive, that is another matter entirely. Sustainable fisheries management requires maintaining enough breeding sized fish to produce excess eggs, and keeping habitat and water quality high enough to ensure the life cycle is completed. The health of the whole food chain from plankton up relies on clean water - this is why the healthy waterways results are (unfortunately) the barometer for the health of our inshore fisheries. Because the water and habitat quality is declining, so will the productivity of the fisheries that rely on them (e.g. snapper), meaning that tighter bag limits closures etc are inevitable unless the underlying habitat and water issues are addressed.

Ben, I wasn't trying to advocate that every fisho in QLD should go out and bag 100kg a year in Mahi Mahi. At no stage was I attempting to make someone believe that heavy sustained fishing wouldn't impact on stocks. But it would be naive to think that there would ever be the possibility that those 5000 Rec Anglers could even get the chance to all bag 100kg of Mahi Mahi. But take that into context of what I was trying to say. The Mahi bag right now is 5 fish. So two blokes could go out and find a Mahi School and catch their bag quite easily of 10kg fish and break 100kg. Of course in a perfect world those two fishermen would not need another Mahi for well over twelve months even if they gave away a large portion. My point is that they should not be restricted from taking those 5 fish just because Nagg's conscience tells him it is greedy to do so. If the science (even on a best guess) is telling us that we are taking too many and need to cut back then so be it, we cut back. Not just because the new age catch and release fisho thinks that keeping more fish than can be eaten in one feed is being greedy. I hope I cleared that up.

On to your other point about Rec Anglers taking 500t of Mahi a year and its detrimental effect on stocks. Currently QLD DPI-F are claiming that the total take of snapper is somewhere around say 700t and Rec Anglers are taking 400t of that. They are also claiming that the recruitment of Snapper is sound.

Now hypothetically, considering that Mahi Mahi are a far faster breeding and far faster growing (to breeding stage and beyond) fish than what Snapper is.............. In your professional opinion if Rec Anglers were to take 500t on Mahi Mahi a year on a regular basis do you think that there would be a crisis on Mahi Mahi stocks?

Ben, always enjoy reading your posts and would love to hear your response to this one. Please feel free to start another thread if you feel replying here would be too much of a hijack.

[Lovey80]

Pop Gun,

another Idea for ya!

Consider closed seasons on pumping yabbies in some areas. In some areas I frequented as a kid there were seemingly unlimited amount of Yabbies and now days the same areas are baron. I say consider only because getting flogged by yabbie pumpers may not necessarily be the major cause. As others have alluded to water quality and other factors may be the reason for the decline but something that should be considered for sustainable fishing ideas for the future. At least until we can get the numbers back up.

[Lovey80]

Having fished a fair bit for Mahi Mahi ...... it is very easy to wipe them out of an area - If we fished the fads or fish trap floats and the word was out that the dollies were on - BANG! ..... they would cop a floggin and all you would catch were little tackers . Besides dollies dont freeze up that well and are best eaten fresh.

Hence why the bag has been dropped to 5 fish.

To ignore what has happened in the past or not to take notice of what other states are doing to improve their fisheries is not real smart ...... specially when some of these fisheries overlap.

Of course but the fact that PPB isn't catching 20lb Snapper anymore is irrelevant to how QLD manages it's fishery. We have already increased size and reduced bag limits and haven't given it time to take a full effect. Sydney copped a flogging from all sides up until recently and QLD isn't making the same mistakes [U]right now[U] as what the NSW fisheries did back in the 60's 70's and 80's so is irrelevant to this discussion now. Sure they overlap and there needs to be some co-operation on these fisheries but to use these as reasons to call people now working within the law greedy is drawing a really long bow
......... spot on! - but are they working ???

I want someone to show me the science that the SE Qld fisheries are in a healthy state !

We all would like to see the science (all of it) on how they come up with their conclusions, wether it be good or bad but I guess that would open them up to bouts of laughter from all sides then
Chris

My point I am trying to make with you here Chris is fisheries management is something that needs to be run on logic and not emotion. Not from Anglers that think anything more than a feed that night is being greedy not from fundamental green groups that think killing any living thing is murder and not from red necks that think that it is their right to take what ever they like when ever they like.

The bottom line is if a practice (any practice) is sustainable to the fishery then it should be considered as appropriate. If a practice is considered sustainable but there are environmental, economic and social reasons for restricting or removing that practice then it needs to be looked at.

Cheers

Chris

[burleygu]

im only thinking small here guys but i think it would be a good idea to see something in place (well not neccesarily in place) where we as recreational anglers have to take the responsibility to ensure the health and well being of the smaller and realeased fish is at its very best. perhaps a "rule" within the moreton bay marine park and other heavily fished areas and marine parks could require us as anglers to only use ' enviro type nets ' or barbless hooks just for an example. this is deffinately not a big impact idea nor should it neccesarily need to be enforced. but if every angler took the time to look after the released fish weather they be small fish unwanted fish or the monster you want to see fight another day. if these fish had a better rate of survival over a period of a few years there would be a significant increase in survival rates on released fish.

perhaps if the greens or whomever seen the recreational anglers making sacrifices such as doing away with netted nets' and using more fish friendly hooks on there request once again just examples they just might focus there efforts on better practices rather then closing areas straight off the bat.

[oldboot]

there definitely is a widespread campaign out there on safe release techniques......lots of the fishing shows pus it hard.

The QLD government has a "campaign" on the matter...... but like most things ya don't see much of it.....like the flathead identification "spot the dot" campaign....hardly anybody has heard of it.

QLD fisheries rely need to take their obligation under the act to "educate", far more serioulsy.

In the south and in NZ we are seeing state marine departments sponsoring & partisipating in Fishing shows.......what do we see from the QLD government.

Only advertising that promotes it polocies.

cheers

[Sevric]

What a great thread.
There have been a some really intelligent as well as obvious solutions to the original question of the thread but non more brilliant than the use of barbless hooks. It is some thing i had never thought of doing while fishing for Snapper which is something i have done for almost 40 years.
The Government and the Greens as well as the different departments that control our fishing will never take us seriously till we come up with viable and sensible control methods ourselves. We have to demonstrate to those in control active self control on all aspects of our capture of all species of fish. Make barbless hooks mandatory for all species other than perhaps stocked impoundments which are a put and take fishery. Perhaps i will go and crush the barbs on some of the hooks i already have just to see what difference my capture rate is; i know it would be much easier to release the fish if the hooks were barbless. This makes capture and release far less stressful on the fish and that is what is really important here. It should be about the fish not us as anglers.
The fish stocking promoted earlier in the thread is also a good idea. Some may think it an imposable task but the longest journey starts with a single step; the idea should be given a fair airing perhaps on a thread of it's own. I note a story on the news last night that they are now breeding giant Queensland Grouper for sale to Japan for consumption; why can't there be a scheme to do the same and release them back into the natural habitat. Perhaps a scheme would be better suited to fish low in the food chain to promote natural advancement of all fish would be better.

These 2 ideas combined with government departments getting serious on polluters, illegal fishing practices and buying out pro licences especially the netters making sure the participants could not return to the industry would make a giant step forward for all fish stocks.

[Lovey80]

I like the idea of stocking very much. My fishing club was considering donating funds to a salt water stocking group until I pointed out the likelihood of those fingerlings going straight into a river or beach netters net. If an area was mostly RFH then it would be perfect.

[Noelm]

while it may be possible that a released fish will/could get caught by a pro, there is just as much chance it will not! we can't blame professional fisherman for everything, barbless hooks are an option, but as far as the green movement goes, they dont want us to catch them at all, torturing a fish untill it submits and being able to toss it back easier is NOT what they are about.

[FNQCairns]

Blokes the ocean is not land locked, stocking the ocean....even if from the local estuary foreshore is folly.....we do not have the conditions needed within any population of fish species that this would make any true difference.

Under an entirely different set of circumstance than what exists...yes it's possible but horses for courses.

Nothing wrong with chewing the fat on any subject IMO but if as anglers we are injecting any reality into this while still not taking into account the real-time reality of our individual fish populations and ranges/ecology etc it just doesn't work worthy of the cost/value received in any area....this is hardly opinion either.

[coola]

I think we've very quickly have lost sight of the original post, we will never fix anything unless we stick together
coola::)

Yes I'm quoting myself we will never sort this attack on us from the pollies & rad greens when we continue to fight amongst ourselves. making suggestions like; ban pro fishers, barbless hooks,bag limits etc etc, is playing into hands of the pollies & rad greens. I bet they are sitting back saying "look at these clowns our work is done for us!!".
THE ONLY TWO THINGS WE NEED TO OVERCOME ARE APATHY AND DISUNITY.

COOLA:-[

[marty666]

if it was as simple as a united front dont you think it would be sorted by now. There would be that many fish in the water that they would jump in the boat as you traveled and the sun would always shine and no wind or swell either. Like i said ealier it does not matter what is said or now said here, we need a lobby group or some form of represntation in the goverment other wise this will only ever be a forum chat on a web site, rater than being pushed into the lime light where it needs to be. If an ambassador for the rec fishos comes forward before the fisheries and epa it would show that as rec fishos we give a hoot about where we love one of our greatest past times.

[PinHead]

I peope are really serious about this issue then step one would obviously be: ban fishing comps...large numbers concentrated in one area going hell for leather certainly isn't leading to so called sustainable practices.

I still have a probel with the so called lack of quantities of fish.

here is an anlogy..I have a huge paddock...into that paddock runs several drains with good clean water..the grassi nthe paddock grows well and the area is inhabited bu a huge mob of roos. After a while something goes awry and whe water quality from the drains deteriorates. The grass started dying therefore less food for the roos. Now the sskippys aren't going to breed there nor are they going to stay there. They move on. There is still the same number oif skippys but only in a different location.

So if my paddock becomes Moreton Bay and the drains are the rivers..what self repsecting fish would stay in that mess? They would move elsewhere.

[PinHead]

if it was as simple as a united front dont you think it would be sorted by now. There would be that many fish in the water that they would jump in the boat as you traveled and the sun would always shine and no wind or swell either. Like i said ealier it does not matter what is said or now said here, we need a lobby group or some form of represntation in the goverment other wise this will only ever be a forum chat on a web site, rater than being pushed into the lime light where it needs to be. If an ambassador for the rec fishos comes forward before the fisheries and epa it would show that as rec fishos we give a hoot about where we love one of our greatest past times.

have you joined Ecofishers???

[tropicrows]

have you joined Ecofishers???



You beat me to it....

[Spot82]

For my way of thinking - If you are giving fish away to family and friends ..... you have caught too much!!!!:(

Chris

You're kidding right? So you expect my 80 year old grand parents to go out and catch their own fish if they want a feed? The air must smell real good up on that high horse ;)

I have a lot of friends that don't enjoy fishing but like a feed of fish once in a while, so usually if i have friends around for dinner they get a feed of fish, works out well for me and saves me going to buy a peice of meat from the butcher.

I never take more than my bag limit and the freezer is generally all but empty by the time I get out again.

Don't worry there will be thousands of bream, whiting, flatties and snapper left because I would much prefer to eat a Red or a trout. If it's not something I will eat it gets let go, simple as that and generally the fish i keep are well over size limits and anything close is let go as well.

[red rock cod]

WHERE ON EARTH DO THEY GET THEIR INFORMATION ON SNAPPER. I HAVE FISHED OFF REDCLIFFE FOR 30 YEARS AND EACH YEAR THE NUMBER OF JUVENILE SNAPPER THAT ICATCH and release INCREASES.

[NAGG]

You're kidding right? So you expect my 80 year old grand parents to go out and catch their own fish if they want a feed? The air must smell real good up on that high horse ;)

I have a lot of friends that don't enjoy fishing but like a feed of fish once in a while, so usually if i have friends around for dinner they get a feed of fish, works out well for me and saves me going to buy a peice of meat from the butcher.

I never take more than my bag limit and the freezer is generally all but empty by the time I get out again.

Don't worry there will be thousands of bream, whiting, flatties and snapper left because I would much prefer to eat a Red or a trout. If it's not something I will eat it gets let go, simple as that and generally the fish i keep are well over size limits and anything close is let go as well.


Not really ..... I did the same thing 25 years ago - It was all about how many fish you could catch -
Giving fish away to nan / pop whatever is all nice and certainly gives you a warm fuzzy feeling - I dont really have a problem with that!
When someone drives around a caravan park looking to give away fish or rings around to do the same ......... well , yes you've caught too much fish ! - and dont kid yourself , people do it.

Chris

[Pistol_P]

We can log forests and then regrow them with seedlings, we can breed endangered animals in captivity and release them back into the wild, we can create barra farms, we can do it with crocodiles, we can have great Freashwater restocking programs in our dams.

We Must look at saltwater restocking programs on a mass scale, surely it can be done. If we keep putting seeds into the ground we will reep a great harvest, WAKE UP AND LETS GET BEHIND IT !!!!!

The desalination plants were to be built at the following locations at Marcoola, on the Sunshine Coast, Lytton, at the Port of Brisbane, Bribie Island and at Tugun on the Gold coast. I don't know how many were completed but each one cost about 2 billion. They are all sitting idle and will be for at least the next 20 years.

A desal plant pumps saltwater from the ocean, so why doesn't Anna Build a shed or use the existing sheds and build some holding tanks on on each one, create a few jobs and generate billions of dollars by creating a RRF restocking programme.
Locations are perfect for releasing fingerlings back into the wild also.

benefits:

CREATE JOBS IN THE PLANTS
KEEP REC, CHARTER AND PRO FISHERS HAPPY AND GENERATING INCOME FOR QLD
CREATE A SUSTAINABLE FISHERY FOR FUTURE
GENERATE BILLIONS FOR THE SEAFOOD INDUSTY IN QLD THROUGH SALES AROUND AUSTRALIA AND EVEN AN EXPORT MARKET
GENERATES MORE JOBS AND INCOME THROUGH TACKLE STORE SALES, FUEL, BAKERIES, BOAT YARDS ETC
NO NEED FOR GREEN ZONES ALSO KEEPS THE GREENS HAPPY
BAG LIMITS OF SOME SOUGHT WOULD STILL NEED TO BE IN PLACE
MARRIAGES SAVED (wives can have a break from us while we fish)I KNOW IT IS NOT AN ISTANT FIX, but in 10 years we could be bagging out on coral trout and reds in the brizzy river ! win, win, win for all Queenlanders.

Does anyone have some ideas or knowledge on this topic that they can share ?

For those on here that have contact with the libs and labour feel free to pass this on if you think it is a good idea.

Cheers,

Brian

One of the best Ideas I have heard in a long time.

I also agree strongly with Lovey80 about the total banning of netting in our rivers and beaches.

Pete

[oldboot]

I recon salt water fish stocking may be viable for some spicies..... but it needs to be done on massive scale.
Like 100s of 1000s of fingerlings.
And for the benifit of both rec and pro sectors.

So this means it has to be government run and funded.....so unfortunaty it has bucklies chance.


Aparantly somewhere in the south the closed off a section of water..... like a whole bay and river mouth to netting.
It was on one of the videos I have......the presenter went out with a pro angler that now line fishes the area....and this pro was adamant, it was a very good thing.
He now catches individual high quality fish that demand a premium, he has none of the bycatch mortality rates of when he was netting.
AND
The fish population has returned strongly in a short time....there are more and bigger fish for everybody.

Yeh I'm not real keen on inshore netting.

cheers

[Lovey80]

while it may be possible that a released fish will/could get caught by a pro, there is just as much chance it will not! we can't blame professional fisherman for everything, barbless hooks are an option, but as far as the green movement goes, they dont want us to catch them at all, torturing a fish untill it submits and being able to toss it back easier is NOT what they are about.

Noelm, mate I totally agree with you. If the pro netter had to pay a fee to the restocking group that is significant enough then I would totally support it. I just don't want to see a situation like in NSW where Rec Fishing Licences have been used to stock Mulloway and the local Rec Anglers are very happy about the results up until the beach netter sits 400m up beach from the mouth of the RFH and takes tonnes of Mulloway that was largely funded by RFL fees and intended for Rec Anglers to catch.

I'll give you an example that I would love to see enacted when and should QLD go down the RFL path.

The Maroochy, Noosa rivers and all beaches between the Mooloolah and the tip of Fraser have all the netters bought out and made a RFH (crabbers aside). If that were to happen not only would I support Saltwater stocking I would volunteer my time to assist in the program. With current netting especially north of Noosa there is no way I would support such a move.

[marty666]

have you joined Ecofishers???

I have looked at there site but an skeptic about it as there is no update since may this year even though it is only $10 to join i dont want to go barking up the wrong tree are there any members on here and do they do what they claim???? If it was that great would we not all be members by now???

[tropicrows]

Many Ausfish members are Ecofishers members, but we need more, a lot more. If you want the pollies to sit and take notice of us, it's numbers that count.

[PinHead]

I have looked at there site but an skeptic about it as there is no update since may this year even though it is only $10 to join i dont want to go barking up the wrong tree are there any members on here and do they do what they claim???? If it was that great would we not all be members by now???

There ya go marty..you could join up and volunteer to look after the website..post up all the relevant news etc.

[marty666]

There ya go marty..you could join up and volunteer to look after the website..post up all the relevant news etc.

it still does not answer my question about them tho call me a skeptic but are they a lobby group or just a collective group trying to persuade the pollies, If it is only a collective group then what is the difference between them ring my local member or them. The web site does not really say apart from a not for profit organisation. 2nd i would like to hear from members to find out what they do, as it is all very well to say they are trying to protect the rights of rec fishos but do they really try or just a group of guys that meet for a beer every now and then and think of who they might write a letter to.

If they are a lobby group and they need number why is there not advertising on here a fishing forum why are there no fundraisers or days of sort where people like myself can go have a chat with them to see what they are about and potentiality join??? any feed back from members???

[odes20]

You're kidding right? So you expect my 80 year old grand parents to go out and catch their own fish if they want a feed? The air must smell real good up on that high horse ;)

I have a lot of friends that don't enjoy fishing but like a feed of fish once in a while, so usually if i have friends around for dinner they get a feed of fish, works out well for me and saves me going to buy a peice of meat from the butcher.

I never take more than my bag limit and the freezer is generally all but empty by the time I get out again.

Don't worry there will be thousands of bream, whiting, flatties and snapper left because I would much prefer to eat a Red or a trout. If it's not something I will eat it gets let go, simple as that and generally the fish i keep are well over size limits and anything close is let go as well.

I have a 20 footer and fish off shore prob 12 times a year. I can assure you that my freezer usually has a good supply for us and friends/shared around. Always within the law on take and posession.

I also am amazed at the thinking of these so called planners for the future. If you are going to seek to chastise those who fish inside the law and share that joy with friends and family, then you are batting from plain selfishness. I keep on saying over and over, that to share quality fish with family and friends who dont have the ability or resources to catch fish for themselves, is one of the great joys of fishing.
Otherwise we leave them to go and buy crap imports at Coles or woolies. This whole chastising attitude that keeps popping up on threads all the time on here is both boring and annoying.

[odes20]

Not really ..... I did the same thing 25 years ago - It was all about how many fish you could catch -
Giving fish away to nan / pop whatever is all nice and certainly gives you a warm fuzzy feeling - I dont really have a problem with that!
When someone drives around a caravan park looking to give away fish or rings around to do the same ......... well , yes you've caught too much fish ! - and dont kid yourself , people do it.

Chris
So What random acts of kindness are now banned as well? Giving a feed of fish to people who you dont even know?? Is that a hellish or heavenly motive ?

You should try it one day nagg it might give you some joy. Or dont other people deserve the joy of eating a lovely feed of fish caught within the law?

Selfish ? Or should fishing be preserved for the future? For whose kids? Only yours??? You leave me wondering.

[marty666]

So What random acts of kindness are now banned as well? Giving a feed of fish to people who you dont even know?? Is that a hellish or heavenly motive ?

You should try it one day nagg it might give you some joy. Or dont other people deserve the joy of eating a lovely feed of fish caught within the law?

Selfish ? Or should fishing be preserved for the future? For whose kids? Only yours??? You leave me wondering.


I dont understand where you are coming from just because you are not breaking any laws does not mean what you are doing is so called right either. You might call it acts of kindness but all those fish that are just being given away are not in the water breading it is as simple as that. On your logic of giving a feed to those who dont have the time or means to do so we should all bag out and drag the catch with in the law home and give away to our neighbors hair dressers brother, jees i dont see many fish left after every one in Brisbane who has a boat and loves to fish does this. Now i am never going to say hey it should be catch and release only but common sense should prevail and if you have caught a couple decent pan size fish that are legal and will feed you and your family that night then hey go for it but to bag and and feed you and your family on frozen fish for weeks what a waste of breeding fish.

[PinHead]

I dont understand where you are coming from just because you are not breaking any laws does not mean what you are doing is so called right either. You might call it acts of kindness but all those fish that are just being given away are not in the water breading it is as simple as that. On your logic of giving a feed to those who dont have the time or means to do so we should all bag out and drag the catch with in the law home and give away to our neighbors hair dressers brother, jees i dont see many fish left after every one in Brisbane who has a boat and loves to fish does this. Now i am never going to say hey it should be catch and release only but common sense should prevail and if you have caught a couple decent pan size fish that are legal and will feed you and your family that night then hey go for it but to bag and and feed you and your family on frozen fish for weeks what a waste of breeding fish.

ok Marty .try this one..a bloke catches some fish..all legally..he keeps some and gives some to his neighbour..let's say 4 fish to the neighbours..you bewdy..everyone is happy.

The neighbour eats fish regualrly..so ig he is not given any he goes and buys the fish..who knows what bycatch was killed in catching those fish. Far more sustainable for the kind bloke to givew him some.

Common sense also says to me that catch and release it a waste also..not all fish survive and a lot I have seen in pics have little chance of survial..therefore might as feed someone.

Did you know that a heart specialist will tell you to eat fish 4 times a week?

What is the problem if no one has broken any law. It is not your place to castigate others for what they do legally..if you don't like the current regulations then lobby your local MP.

If you are so adamant about fish being in the water and breeding..my suggestion is that you give up fishing completely. Then you can carry on about it.

[odes20]

I dont understand where you are coming from just because you are not breaking any laws does not mean what you are doing is so called right either. You might call it acts of kindness but all those fish that are just being given away are not in the water breading it is as simple as that. On your logic of giving a feed to those who dont have the time or means to do so we should all bag out and drag the catch with in the law home and give away to our neighbors hair dressers brother, jees i dont see many fish left after every one in Brisbane who has a boat and loves to fish does this. Now i am never going to say hey it should be catch and release only but common sense should prevail and if you have caught a couple decent pan size fish that are legal and will feed you and your family that night then hey go for it but to bag and and feed you and your family on frozen fish for weeks what a waste of breeding fish.

You are proposing that anyone who ever catches a good haul within the law is an evil doer? ::)
So what do you think about all the fish that people are eating this Christmas? Are they all bad too?
You need to refine your overall philosophy on this issue mate, or do as Pinhead suggested. personally stop fishing to be true to your convictions

[coola]

Yes I'm quoting myself we will never sort this attack on us from the pollies & rad greens when we continue to fight amongst ourselves. making suggestions like; ban pro fishers, barbless hooks,bag limits etc etc, is playing into hands of the pollies & rad greens. I bet they are sitting back saying "look at these clowns our work is done for us!!".
THE ONLY TWO THINGS WE NEED TO OVERCOME ARE APATHY AND DISUNITY.

COOLA:-[

SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST PLAIN BORING.( BUILD A BRIDGE!!!).

COOLA:-[

[odes20]

SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST PLAIN BORING.( BUILD A BRIDGE!!!).

COOLA:-[

Deary me

Coola I agree that unity is needed - no question. But unity happens in life when people mutually agree to gather around a common value and respect each others positions and work it foward.
Your naivity is that every time someone creates a thread on here to seek solutions out come the lads who want to chastise those who choose to bring home more fish than them, within the law.

Those who are hammering away at those who bring home a bag full didnt atrtack the creator of this thread for saying we will be able to bag out on trout and reds in the Brisbane River??
Another naivity is that the greenies will succeed in closing all fishing .
Thats a stupid fear. Catching and eating fish is a world wide part of mankinds life since year dot. Sustainable fishing practises and conservation is as far as they will get. Any Gov who tries to push it further will fail.

I dont even mind if we get restricted further. Even though I catch plenty of fish, I still rarely catch my bag limit, and I have plenty to eat and share.

[NAGG]

So What random acts of kindness are now banned as well? Giving a feed of fish to people who you dont even know?? Is that a hellish or heavenly motive ?

You should try it one day nagg it might give you some joy. Or dont other people deserve the joy of eating a lovely feed of fish caught within the law?

Selfish ? Or should fishing be preserved for the future? For whose kids? Only yours??? You leave me wondering.


Odes ..... I have done it ( then it became expected!) - just an old digger that lived in the same block of units
I don't have a problem with anyone keeping a feed or anyone giving the odd fish away http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/Original%20Smilies/smiley.gif However my opinion changes when fishoes use the "legal bag limit" as their catchcry ...... they catch their bag , keep what they want and give away the rest! ...... http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/Original%20Smilies/sad.gif
My fishing practices are from personal choice - just deep down I know that if we keep going down this path , fishing will become even more regulated but not before fish stocks become depleated .


Selfish ? Or should fishing be preserved for the future? For whose kids? Only yours??? You leave me wondering - I still cant work this comment out:-?

Chris

PS .... btw - have a happy Christmas

[Spot82]

The best sustainable fishing is the fact that 90% of fisherman only catch 10% of the fish :P ;D I definitely catch more fish now than when I was 10 - 15 years younger, must be more fish around these days!!! ;)

If I could manage to bag out on Snapper off the Gold Coast 4 from 4 times this year, and let the majority of those fish go, then how can there be a shortage of fish? Maybe I just got lucky? :-? So in catching 20 snapper for the year I probably had a much better year than the majority of people who fished for snapper this year!!! There is no way that rec fishos have an impact anything like the "scientific" studies propose!!!

The best way to create a better fishery is to create more habitat, The massive Artificial Reef at Hervey Bay is a classic example of this, this has benefited the whole inner bay area! Not a lot of fish are caught there, but go for a dive and see how much life is down there, it is rediculous!! The amount of coral trout and species which aren't often caught there is amazing!!! Greenies should pull their heads in and allow clean car bodies and other scrap metal and suitable objects to be made into reefs, it is the best surface to allow coral growth, etc. The few millilitres of pollutants which would be found on a stripped car body is not going to have bugger all negative effect on water quality when it is diluted in a few billion litres of water!!! But this requires the government to spend some money!!! Will never happen.

In addition there should be no commercial netting of estuarys and areas like the sandy straights. Recently heard a story of some Americans paying over $2000 to come to Hervey Bay to catch some big Golden Trevally on the flats of Fraser (catch and release) only for the guide to find the fish then have netters come and net the said fish right in front of them!! The netters would have got bugger all for em and don't put a great deal of dollars back into the economy, yet you have a guide running a business putting thousands into the local economy and the fish being released. Much the same as the scenario with many of the beaches from Fraser Island south too!

With the current Snapper debarcle that is happening I believe the best way to manage the fishery would be bigger size limits eg. 40cm, and also have a maximum of one or two fish over say 75 or 80cm in your bag of 5, big snapper aren't good eating anyway!

No one should be criticised for fishing within the law and catching what they are allowed, as long as they don't then waste that fish! That is fair in my books, no one who fishes is successful every trip, thats why they call it fishing not catching!!

Anthony

[Lovey80]

Nagg, that's right your fishing practices are a PERSONAL choice! Others have the same CHOICE to make. It's their choice to make without a religious like berating from you. If current laws are not sustainable then so be it argue that point with your local member, fisheries, sunfish or what ever. Oh that's right there would have to be evidence to change the law and that doesn't help you. Your choice is one on moral grounds not sustainability ones so it will not likely happen.

[marty666]

You are proposing that anyone who ever catches a good haul within the law is an evil doer? ::)
So what do you think about all the fish that people are eating this Christmas? Are they all bad too?
You need to refine your overall philosophy on this issue mate, or do as Pinhead suggested. personally stop fishing to be true to your convictions


I think you have really missed the point of this thread, maybe go back to the beginning and re read it or look at the title at the top. Ideas for the future all i hear is you having a opinion on others opinions but not on the matter at hand, everyone is entitled to an opinion but what would your suggestion be to help the future of rec fishing or do you believe that this is a taboo area that if we cover our eyes and say there is not a problem or will be a problem then there is no problem

[STUIE63]

why fix something that's not broken?

[marty666]

why fix something that's not broken?


If there is nothing wrong why the 6 week no take starting February? the ones that make the rules believe there is a problem even if it is cooked figures to make it sound worse that it really is.

[STUIE63]

the ones that make the rules listened to some shonky computer models and have to appease their green masters so they fed some very suspect data into an even more suspect computer model and then just barely got the result they wanted and are trying to force thi bull$hit down peoples throats . and threads like this just seem to justify it . so I say again why fix something that is not broken
Stuie

[mmmouse]

i think commercially speaking, fish farming is the way to go. in saying that there can be no better fish farm on earth than the great barrier reef and i am sure it can be fished sustainably forever. i believe that every estuary, offshore reef or river system has a sustainable 'take' limit. of course it's different for each area and the key would be research and monitoring which wouldn't happen because of the costs involved. the other problem would be trusting the commercial sector to accurately report their catch and take efforts in the interests of long term sustainability and not short term money grabbing. bag limits should be reduced for many species that are slow growing and long lived, mangrove jack and golden snapper(fingermark) are 2 that come to mind and i think the mud crab limit is too much as well. overfishing is a worldwide problem and as the worlds oceans become more and more depleted in the coming years the potential for more illegal fishing vessels in our waters is going to increase. fish farming should be the way of the future for the entire world and leave the wild stocks for closely controlled and monitored areas or rec fishers.....fishing responsibly and for the future

[marty666]

the ones that make the rules listened to some shonky computer models and have to appease their green masters so they fed some very suspect data into an even more suspect computer model and then just barely got the result they wanted and are trying to force thi bull$hit down peoples throats . and threads like this just seem to justify it . so I say again why fix something that is not broken
Stuie


Ok i agree whit you on the way they fudged the figures but they are doing it for some reason, if the rec fishos just sit back and say she will be right guess what more funky figures and more restrictions. I would love to know how are they going to know if you target snapper as this should be avoided in there no take period???

[Platitudinus]

Having read all 6 pages of ideas thus far It is very clear that it is the growing number of humans that is the problem having more and more demands on the fish stock (beit holding, growing, declining or whatever) and other world resources.

So we need to control the human population growth to make THAT sustainable vis a vis the worlds food resources.

Perhaps a new thread could discuss birth control, nuking govt headquarters, ministries and quasi govt depts (police, firies, ambos etc) and also we should reduce our hospitals and care systems and force euthanasia. What age should we start at 70,60,45? That should reduce the population for a while and if we recreational fishos take up hunting as well we may succeed in reducing the human population to sustainable numbers (at least for a while till the population explodes again).
Bring back Mad Max - all is forgiven LOL.
Merry Xmas.
Plato

[odes20]

Having read all 6 pages of ideas thus far It is very clear that it is the growing number of humans that is the problem having more and more demands on the fish stock (beit holding, growing, declining or whatever) and other world resources.

So we need to control the human population growth to make THAT sustainable vis a vis the worlds food resources.

Perhaps a new thread could discuss birth control, nuking govt headquarters, ministries and quasi govt depts (police, firies, ambos etc) and also we should reduce our hospitals and care systems and force euthanasia. What age should we start at 70,60,45? That should reduce the population for a while and if we recreational fishos take up hunting as well we may succeed in reducing the human population to sustainable numbers (at least for a while till the population explodes again).
Bring back Mad Max - all is forgiven LOL.
Merry Xmas.
Plato

Trouble is we would only want a selective cull of humans and we may even fit in our own cull criterieas and all go to ground, dont you think?? LOL
Keep up the christmas cheer Plato!

[Platitudinus]

Hey Odes;
At 58 years young I fit into two of the euthanasia categories already!
Culling of humans has always been governments prerogative based on how many $$$ they let back into social welfare, housing and health. e.g. In NZ if you have cancer the 'allowance' is around $700 - once you've used that its over!
Remember this when you next vote!
Oh yes, the greenies fit ALL euthanasia categories.
Cheers
Plato

[NAGG]

So how will we know when a fishery is sustainable or not ?

How do we know if our fishing practices are sustainable or not ?

....... besides when we cant catch a fish ?:-?

Clearly too many hereabouts do not trust the departments that carry out these studies & commission the scientific research........ :( Even though this is non political - sadly though people want to politicise it ! -
Keep in mind .. This same research will be passed on to the next government & the same recommendations will be made. - This has nothing to do with LABOUR / GREENS ......... just cast your mind back with regard to the GBR marine zones which was instigated by a Federal Howard Liberal government

I'm pretty sure if there was not a problem (ie: Snapper) - no recommendations would be made and no action would be taken.

Chris

[Ben D]

Plato is onto it. Growing number of humans is obviously the main source of environmental problems. Birth control is important, but the problem with that is the estrogen in the pill (and even just having a large number of females in a population) are persistent in pee and find their way into the environment via sewage wastewater, feminising fish and other marine animals, also causing immunosuppression, resulting in lack of recruitment and even local extinctions. All scientifically validated in various parts of the world once a certain human population density is reached. To put it bluntly, family planning and rubber or the snip is the way to go for population control with minimal impact on aquatic organisms (few seem to advocate abstinence !), and reverse osmosis of wastewater is the best deal for the environment to remove most of the estrogens - even if the dams are full, use it anyway and dump it in the bay and not the water supply. The marine environment will thank you for it with increased productivity.

re: restocking of marine areas, you can certainly breed millions of fingerlings, but if you release them over several years the risks to the wild stocks include loss of genetic diversity and introduction of disease. These are real risks which can degrade what is left of the natural populations you are trying to protect/enhance. I believe that is a "catch 22" situation. Enhancement programs that involve restocking are thus last resort bandaids - usually required to get around irreversible problems that stem from loss of nursery habitat or other man made issues that interrupt the natural recruitment cycle (e.g. dams and weirs). But if you can reverse the original problem, that must be the main priority as natural recruitment is the best quality recruitment . In the US they are knocking down some of their hydro dams because everything else they have tried re: restocking has not helped their salmon come back.

re: aquaculture, you still have to feed the cultured fish and they produce nutrient wastes. Seacage culture is a form of nutrient/pathogen pollution for wild fish stocks. landbased recirculation systems with the right species (e.g. barra, murray cod) that can utilise a low % fishmeal diet are the sustainable way forward - there are significant financial/business risks for recirc. aquaculture pioneers but some good operators are making it work.

euthanasia - well, isn't the only political party that supports that at the moment the greens ?....

re: snapper, they are being fished hard due to GPS and sounders and soft plastic technology and we have seen large reductions in nursery habitat quality and area from historical baselines. water quality declines will not help with larval survival either. You do the math, but I can't see any miracles happening with this species.

Management of all these factors will be required for long term sustainability of our fisheries and environmental quality in general. Governments are aware of these things, but the $ is king and the large scale of the various problems that arise with increasing human population is why I believe most governments nowadays are hung parliaments (or near to it) - no one has the "right" answers or is game to make hard decisions.

[Lovey80]

As I understand it the 'problem' with Snapper surfaced when some lazy Gold Coast Charter operators found out they couldn't flog the same marks everyday and make a living. So they want it to themselves by restricting Rec Anglers. If there was a reason for real alarm there would be no 'consultation' they would implement what they wanted. This RRFF review will guarantee one thing only Recs will get hammered and charter will benefit.

The sunny coast charter operators seem to be able to put guys onto fish fairly regularly time for the Gold Coast guys to clean up their acts plain and simple.

[Aussie123]

The best solution is to push all prawn trawlers outside 3nm.
If you went on numbers of fish killed and not their actual weight the by catch of juvenile 3-4 inch snapper in trawl nets would by far out number all snapper caught by other commercial fishers,charter operators and rec fishermen combined.
Boats working inshore grounds and bays can easily kill 2-3 boxes of 3 inch snapper every night that they work at certain times of the year and if you look at how many inshore trawlers are working along the NSW/Qld coastline that amounts to millions of baby snapper killed every year.
These numbers apply to baby jews as well caught in trawl nets.
NSW fisheries did a trawl trash survey in the Clarence River and the numbers of baby Jews counted was astounding but I cannot remember if any surveys were done on snapper in trawl nets but i guess there will be surveys on file somewhere.
I reckon it would be a sure bet that if these boats were made to work outside 3nm within 5 years there would be a massive abundance of snapper,jews,flathead and many other species.

[wirlybird]

spot on aussie123 the type of fishing that attracts so much unwanted bye catch has to stop the government should take there licenses and give them a patch of dirt and make them farm prawns. As apposed to rape rape rape oh look no fish winge winge winge.

[Big Deez]

The best solution is to push all prawn trawlers outside 3nm.
If you went on numbers of fish killed and not their actual weight the by catch of juvenile 3-4 inch snapper in trawl nets would by far out number all snapper caught by other commercial fishers,charter operators and rec fishermen combined.
Boats working inshore grounds and bays can easily kill 2-3 boxes of 3 inch snapper every night that they work at certain times of the year and if you look at how many inshore trawlers are working along the NSW/Qld coastline that amounts to millions of baby snapper killed every year.
These numbers apply to baby jews as well caught in trawl nets.
NSW fisheries did a trawl trash survey in the Clarence River and the numbers of baby Jews counted was astounding but I cannot remember if any surveys were done on snapper in trawl nets but i guess there will be surveys on file somewhere.
I reckon it would be a sure bet that if these boats were made to work outside 3nm within 5 years there would be a massive abundance of snapper,jews,flathead and many other species.

It may surprise you but there aren't many snapper caught by trawlers these days. Once a snapper reaches about 20cm, it can easily out-swim a trawl net. A few are caught in Moreton Bay but trawl effort in Moreton Bay has decreased by about 60% in the last 20 years.

[Aussie123]

It may surprise you but there aren't many snapper caught by trawlers these days. Once a snapper reaches about 20cm, it can easily out-swim a trawl net. A few are caught in Moreton Bay but trawl effort in Moreton Bay has decreased by about 60% in the last 20 years.

Nothing surprises me about what is caught in prawn trawl and fish trawl gear.
I also don't mean to imply that trawlers should be closed down from operating either because if they worked the appropriate areas the by-catch can be minimal
but indiscriminate trawling of nursery grounds causes massive damage to fish stocks.
The introduction of net and engine restrictions,TEDS and BRD's and many other industry adjustments has helped create a reasonable sustainable fishing industry but once the boats move inshore all that is thrown out the window.
Your right in saying not many adult fish are caught in prawn nets but juvenile fish are still caught by the box fulls.

[Archer]

Noelm, mate I totally agree with you. If the pro netter had to pay a fee to the restocking group that is significant enough then I would totally support it. I just don't want to see a situation like in NSW where Rec Fishing Licences have been used to stock Mulloway and the local Rec Anglers are very happy about the results up until the beach netter sits 400m up beach from the mouth of the RFH and takes tonnes of Mulloway that was largely funded by RFL fees and intended for Rec Anglers to catch.

I'll give you an example that I would love to see enacted when and should QLD go down the RFL path.

The Maroochy, Noosa rivers and all beaches between the Mooloolah and the tip of Fraser have all the netters bought out and made a RFH (crabbers aside). If that were to happen not only would I support Saltwater stocking I would volunteer my time to assist in the program. With current netting especially north of Noosa there is no way I would support such a move.


Lovey, the Mulloway stocking in NSW waters has been a massive success for Rec fishos!!
I fish the Richmond and Clarance mostly and i can tell you in the 20 years ive fished this region ive never seen so many Jew in the systems as i have the past few years! There actually at a point where in a few Bream comps the jew were that thick they were getting annoying and stopping us catching bream...

So ill happily pay my license fee and tell them to feel free to stock more fish!:D
Stocking isnt the only thing the money is used for lots of diffrent projects get done state wide. Its all on there website if anyone wants more info.


EDIT: I throw slot limits in for an idea!
Anything under anything over goes back!!
Flathead 40-60cm
Bream 30-40cm
Jew 60-90cm
etc etc

[PinHead]

Having read all 6 pages of ideas thus far It is very clear that it is the growing number of humans that is the problem having more and more demands on the fish stock (beit holding, growing, declining or whatever) and other world resources.

So we need to control the human population growth to make THAT sustainable vis a vis the worlds food resources.

Perhaps a new thread could discuss birth control, nuking govt headquarters, ministries and quasi govt depts (police, firies, ambos etc) and also we should reduce our hospitals and care systems and force euthanasia. What age should we start at 70,60,45? That should reduce the population for a while and if we recreational fishos take up hunting as well we may succeed in reducing the human population to sustainable numbers (at least for a while till the population explodes again).
Bring back Mad Max - all is forgiven LOL.
Merry Xmas.
Plato

Okay..all you kiwis..pack ya bags..OUT!!!!
next the South Africans..back from whence you came.
Poms..you mob too...cominh over here and playing cricket like that...you can all go back.
OH..and take the irish with ya..they drink that horrible black gunk.

That should do for a start...

BUT..take note all you Victorians and cockroaches..you may be next.

[Lovey80]

Lovey, the Mulloway stocking in NSW waters has been a massive success for Rec fishos!!
I fish the Richmond and Clarance mostly and i can tell you in the 20 years ive fished this region ive never seen so many Jew in the systems as i have the past few years! There actually at a point where in a few Bream comps the jew were that thick they were getting annoying and stopping us catching bream...

So ill happily pay my license fee and tell them to feel free to stock more fish!:D
Stocking isnt the only thing the money is used for lots of diffrent projects get done state wide. Its all on there website if anyone wants more info.


EDIT: I throw slot limits in for an idea!
Anything under anything over goes back!!
Flathead 40-60cm
Bream 30-40cm
Jew 60-90cm
etc etc

Mate feel free to read the massive fishing licence thread started this year I think by Scott Mitchel. Long read but If you do you'll see that i have read what the licence fees have been wasted on. You may be shocked yourself.
Sure there are some fantastic benefits of it and Saltwater stocking of Jew is one of them. I would happily pay a fishing licence if it was managed by a completely A-political body such as Eco fishers. What I don't want to see is the situation seen in NSW this year of beach netters sitting just outside of a RFH and nailing ton upon ton of Jew

[Pistol_P]

There was so much mis-management in NSW with licence fees is was an absolute joke.

I remeber reading an article about South West Rocks where $200,000 out of the recreational licence Trust had been used for ....RESEARCH...???....Into the commercial netting of slimie mackeral and the pressures it had on these baitfish.

Yes...Research...what a crock of bull twang.....
Why should rec fisho's pay for such a thing and who in gods name even knows what research was done and what was actually spent..!!!!

The buy outs of pro licences in Botany bay etc were only for a set period and they then go straight back in or find other loop holes.

Lucky_Phill got me thinking about the whole issue of licences in QLD.
I was originally for it but as he pointed out Boat registartion is at all time high in QLD and where does this money go....???.....Do we see any of it....No we dont.
The licence thing can work but as Lovey suggested in needs to be managed properly by a body such as ecofishers and I would be all for it if managed properly.

Nagg......This is very political IMO.
Labour has sided with the Greens and are pushing their 'agenda' and as already pointed out 'The Greens'want fishing completely banned and there will be no stopping their push.
I hope and Pray the liberal party of NSW and QLD do what the Victorians did and Say we dont want to doany deals with the greens and we want no preference deals done it all.

This will see this group of idiotic extremists lose some power.

Pete

[deepfried]

Mate feel free to read the massive fishing licence thread started this year I think by Scott Mitchel. Long read but If you do you'll see that i have read what the licence fees have been wasted on. You may be shocked yourself.
Sure there are some fantastic benefits of it and Saltwater stocking of Jew is one of them. I would happily pay a fishing licence if it was managed by a completely A-political body such as Eco fishers. What I don't want to see is the situation seen in NSW this year of beach netters sitting just outside of a RFH and nailing ton upon ton of Jew

While i agree there has been wastage with the NSW RL we are not faced with a impoundment licence plus the possibilty of a snapper one as well and on top of that your boat whatsit or what ever it is called. I know this isnt the thread for this debate and it has been done to death but give me the NSW system over what you guys are facing any day. We have RFH's and we have restocking, we can fish fresh or salt and it is all for one price. i would rather have a RFH with netters outside them than not have them and still have the netters as is the current situation in Qld. Do i want to pay it ? not really but it is better value than what other states cop and what you guys are about to. Do i think many of the ideas here are better than what any state Gov has come up with ?? sure do but hey when we dont really have the say on how things are run i will take what i have and not complain when i look at what you guys are going to cop.

[Lovey80]

While i agree there has been wastage with the NSW RL we are not faced with a impoundment licence plus the possibilty of a snapper one as well and on top of that your boat whatsit or what ever it is called. I know this isnt the thread for this debate and it has been done to death but give me the NSW system over what you guys are facing any day. We have RFH's and we have restocking, we can fish fresh or salt and it is all for one price. i would rather have a RFH with netters outside them than not have them and still have the netters as is the current situation in Qld. Do i want to pay it ? not really but it is better value than what other states cop and what you guys are about to. Do i think many of the ideas here are better than what any state Gov has come up with ?? sure do but hey when we dont really have the say on how things are run i will take what i have and not complain when i look at what you guys are going to cop.


Mate in hindsight that's probably a fair call. And all it really takes is to make large inshore areas RFHs. Sure it would cost a load of cash or a loan from somewhere to kick it off but I am sure that QLDers would be happy with a licence fee if managed properly and not one red cent went to consolidated revenue or activities that the Govt should be funding anyway.

It could be done easily with the right leadership to give rec anglers their own destiny

[grayzeee]

been through all of this over here on west coast
bag limits now 2 demersals and 2 pelagics.
2 month complete closure on demersals every year
50cm size limit on pink snapper and our dhufish
all this talk went on about our rights to our bag limits , till most smart fisho's realised it was about protecting our resource for the future , so we could go on and fish well for years to come.
it's coming , just a matter of when.

[NAGG]

There was so much mis-management in NSW with licence fees is was an absolute joke.

I remeber reading an article about South West Rocks where $200,000 out of the recreational licence Trust had been used for ....RESEARCH...???....Into the commercial netting of slimie mackeral and the pressures it had on these baitfish.

Yes...Research...what a crock of bull twang.....
Why should rec fisho's pay for such a thing and who in gods name even knows what research was done and what was actually spent..!!!!

The buy outs of pro licences in Botany bay etc were only for a set period and they then go straight back in or find other loop holes.




Pete


Pete ...... I dont know if your example of mismanagement is true or not - but if it is, it would have had to go through the committees to get approval - Here is the link to the various committees that run and administer the NSW Recreational fishing licence Trust -

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/licence-fee/trusts

All of the meetings have minutes available ...... so you can read about what is proposed , what is approved , where the trust funds are spent , what research is approved (some good shit there) etc etc blah blah blah
WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE IN QLD ......:( Nothing !!! - what programs do we have here in Qld ? , what research is being done in Qld ? ....... what is the future for Qld rec fishing ????? .

Btw - Botany Bay still remains closed to Commercial fishing

The NSW model may not be 100% perfect - but it is transparent & it is reasonably well run - and it is non political !!!!!!

Chris

[Platitudinus]

Lets try another couple of angles.
1. In NZ there are plenty of trout and trout fishermen yet you cannot legally buy caught trout from any source. Suppose we just made it illegal to buy 'retail' any of our so called 'in danger' proposed licence species - snapper, pearlies, and trag and lets add to that some more 'inshore tasties' such as red emporer, kingies, flathead etc.
2. Ban all commercial fishing for fish (not prawns - yet) from within 50km of land (Islands included).
This would FORCE the commercial boats to seek the deep water species offshore as it has in many other countries.
The average fish eating member of the public has no idea what fish they are eating anyway - e.g. sewage farmed catfish from Thailand - Basso etc, so if they eat some filletted ooglies - so what. At least we can continue to catch and eat our inshore species from our own reasonable efforts.
You get the gist?
Cheers
Plato

[Lovey80]

Plati I don't think measures like that are needed just yet. A good start would be to push all netting within 1nm of land/ sheltered semi sheltered water ways. I know one thing is crap is that our resource is goin to feeding nations like Japan that have an appetite far greater than their on land allows. Stop exporting all the good food and there would be no need to import the crap.

[Pistol_P]

Chris,

I had a flashback last night...

The article was written by Laurie & Julie Macanally at South West Rocks and they were horrified as to what was happening.It was titled 'Bait Wars' where the pro's were allowed to net tonnes and tonnes of slimey mackeral....(you can imagine the impact it had on the food chain) and questions were asked as to WHY this was happening and WHY rec trust money had been used into researching the impact.

Back in QLD.....I agree with you we need a focused plan in QLD thats for sure.
One thing I really believe is that all RIVER netting needs to stop.These are the real nurseries and Green Groups should be focusing energy onto them rather than just picking a patch out at sea and locking everyone out.

I think Fishermen on the whole are a responsible bunch and we have embraced bag limits etc etc......and probably will again if the need arises.

Pete

[NAGG]

Chris,

I had a flashback last night...

The article was written by Laurie & Julie Macanally at South West Rocks and they were horrified as to what was happening.It was titled 'Bait Wars' where the pro's were allowed to net tonnes and tonnes of slimey mackeral....(you can imagine the impact it had on the food chain) and questions were asked as to WHY this was happening and WHY rec trust money had been used into researching the impact.


Pete



Hi Pete

I guess you are referring to this study

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/143480/MERCMAC-3.pdf

........

much bigger and greater impact on recreational fishing than one might think - This was an on going (3 year) multi region study which also includes research into the biology etc of the Slimies.
Considering that slimey mackeral are probably the most important baitfish for NSW offshore fisherman ....... no wonder the committee agreed to partially fund it .

If you look at other minutes from 2002 - there is more info

Chris

[mmmouse]

teach your kids about the importance of letting the little ones go and only taking enough for your immediate needs..... help them to realise that fishing is about the whole experience and appreciating natural beauty and the environment, not just what's in the esky at the end of the day..... educate them to the sorts of things that go on in the world like shark finning, whaling, purse seining and drift netting so that they inherit core values of conservation to take forward to future generations.....