Real reel quality

[Horse]

With all the bad weather recently I slunk off to my tackle room and began doing some maintenance on a couple of my reels. The thing that became obvious after looking at a few was that my older gear was actually in much better shape than the newer stuff. For example my 1974 ABU 5000C (thats 35 years old) has a few scratches but looks pretty much like new on the outside with NO signs of corrosion. My Calcuttas circa 1990 are in reasonable shape but show some corrosion around the reel foot/body.
Next to my bigger spin reels where a 30+ year old Penn 850SS is still in great shape and never misses a beat as does my old TSS4 but a 3 year old Okuma Epix looks very sad. A 3 month old Pfleuger Torsion is showing signs of cancer already:P . My brother has rebuilt a Daiwa Eblem Pro twice in four years and now it is beyond repair. Between us we have killed 3 Stradic 4000s in the same time period.
In my overheads my 1976 ABU 10000CA is looking great while my TLD 25 is battered but still functional. My two year old Torium however has significant blistering in the finish that will be a big issue shortly:'(
Were the older reels better designed or used ,materials meant to last while the newer stuff seems to have a built in obsolescence. I'm sure that with the advances in metallurgy we should have reels that don't self distruct if they get a bit wet>:( :-?

[theoldlegend]

I think your last papagraph says it all Horse.

Was looking at some of the new Baitrunners the other day and boy compared to the older ones, I don't think there's any comparison.

I think a lot of the new stuff is built to a price and a timeframe so people will be back for more.

The really high end stuff might be different, but I don't have any high end stuff.


TOL

[reggy]

Yes,anything can be built to run smoothly with nice tight tollerances on computer generated machinery now, even the cheap stuff, but longevity all depends on the quality of the materials used.

I have a great fondness for those old PENNS and ABUs too., wish I had never sold my 5500, 7000, and 9000c.
When "instant anti reverse" roller bearings first appeared, I didn`t think anything without it was any good. How wrong I was.

[nigelr]

Know exactly what you mean, I buy practically all my reels 2nd hand off Ebay.::)
Daiwa Sealines, Penn, Kencor and Shakespeare overheads, old Daiwa, Penn and ABU threadlines, sold my large Spinfisher and Mitchell 498s and now use these huge Brettons for the beach and inshore. First pic shows the difference between the Bretton running gear and the Mitchell, the Bretton is the larger spec.
The Brettons are all mid 60's, and my son will inherit them and they will probably last him a lifetime too!
Easy to work on, tough as nails, dependable, cheap and I cut my own drag washers out of fur felt and virgin teflon sheet. They do the job!8-)
Cheers.

[finga]

All the egg beaters are left handed and the overheads right handed Nigelr.
Are you ambidextrous??
Goodo if you are :)

And look at the bearing in the first picture.
I don't think they'd collapse really easily.

[nigelr]

No, no such luck finga, just taught myself to use the cheaper and more plentiful left-hand wind Mitchells, easy after a little while. The Brettons only came in LH wind.
I still prefer to spin with a RH wind though.
Cheers.

[rando]

I wonder if the pursuit a lighter equipment has led manufacturers down a wrong street.

[NAGG]

I wonder if the pursuit a lighter equipment has led manufacturers down a wrong street.

That's a big part of it

but putting fishing tackle into perspective it is no different to cars

A 70s car was usually much more robust / simple ....... but compared to todays cars they are simply neanderthal .
The tackle that I used in the 80's just doesn't compare to what I'm using today and despite the apparent weaknesses - I wouldn't go back .

Unfortunately - we are in a throw away society these days ..... and I feel that is the philosophy of todays tackle manufacturers:(

Chris

[Sevric]

To a fair degree you get what you pay for although there will always be exceptions to that rule. I also believe that manufactures build in a predetermined use by date deliberately so you just go and purchase a new reel from them as the old reel starts to fail. It has also been bought home to me recently that some reel manufactures just will not learn from the engineering errors of some of their previous models. In 2010 there is no reason why many of the glaring engineering debacles evident on some popular reels should exist at all; they have been evident for over 10 years. My biggest beef is with line rollers in some of the upmarket Daiwa Reels. Not only do they require consistent maintenance but Daiwas service department seldom have parts available and heaven forbid if you send them a reel to fix; it will take many months to repair.

[NAGG]

To a fair degree you get what you pay for although there will always be exceptions to that rule. I also believe that manufactures build in a predetermined use by date deliberately so you just go and purchase a new reel from them as the old reel starts to fail. It has also been bought home to me recently that some reel manufactures just will not learn from the engineering errors of some of their previous models. In 2010 there is no reason why many of the glaring engineering debacles evident on some popular reels should exist at all; they have been evident for over 10 years. My biggest beef is with line rollers in some of the upmarket Daiwa Reels. Not only do they require consistent maintenance but Daiwas service department seldom have parts available and heaven forbid if you send them a reel to fix; it will take many months to repair.

-
Funny you say that ....... my line roller got noisy on the weekend (3500 Certate) ...... on a 7 month old reel - :(

Seems to be a common fault with daiwas over the last 5 years or so
Strangely ....... I have a late 1990s vintage daiwa tournament reel that has never had an issue

Chris

[shanejohnson]

Just curious do people with roller bearing issues rinse the salt out of the roller and oil regularly. Seems a common problem with daiwa rollers. I use shimano so wouldn't know but i run rollers under tap while spinning with finger and oil every 3rd odd trip. Maybe woth a go.

[brisbane_boy]

car comparisons are good here as nagg points out, there has always been hi end gear and low end. if you just want robust gear pick heavy gear, the original penns were a good example and still go strong now but they had there limitations, shimano absolutely kill it with the stella range, what they have done for gt fishing especially noone could even imagine using a penn spinfisher 20 yrs ago. its turned the odd fish into non stop boated fish.

[nigelr]

Good point BB, the drags on the best threadline reels money can buy today (Stella, Saltiga, ZeeBaas, Peerless-Bam etc) certainly perform way better pound for pound than those of yesteryear, even if the old-timers are extremely durable if maintained sufficiently.
I've long believed the line roller can be an achilles heel on a threadline; having a bearing instead of a bush system would obviously necessitate keeping a keen eye on maintainance in a saltwater working environment.
Cheers.

[Chamelion]

In regards to your Torsion.. Is the "cancer" around the gold coloured accents or in the body of the reel? If it's the former don't worry about it, it's cosmetic only and happens on most pflueger reels when used in the salt.

[Sevric]

-
Funny you say that ....... my line roller got noisy on the weekend (3500 Certate) ...... on a 7 month old reel - :(

Seems to be a common fault with daiwas over the last 5 years or so
Strangely ....... I have a late 1990s vintage daiwa tournament reel that has never had an issue

Chris

Chris i purchased 8 Certates over a period of 3 or 4 years all of which have had the line rollers replaced at least twice; more on reels used more often. It is not like i do not look after my equipment; i err on the side of fastidious. I wish i was more of a fresh water fisho at times; the problems with reels, motors and general fishing gear are just less. It is a pity the Certate range are like this as they are a fine reel but backed with poor service / parts unavailability and just bad designed line rollers. My saltiga range of reels of the same age do not suffer the line roller problem at all so Daiwa are capable of doing it right. It was a shame that the new Certates are the same or similar in this department; Daiwa have let a chance to improve their design go by the wayside instead opting to produce a reel that in my opinion is not as good as it's predecessor. Over the last 12 months i have slowly been replacing my Certates with Stella's which to this point has proved to be a winner of a plan although it makes the credit card scream a lot. Fortunately my wife is also a keen fisho and has seen the benefit of the Stella range over Daiwa engineering.

[reggy]

Two reels I have bought recently leave me with the impression that they will be with me for a long time, but there are a few very high end reels that don`t
(in my opinion) have as good a drag material as some 20 year old PENN reels.

Yes, you can spend nearly a grand on a reel, and then have to upgrade the drag.

[NAGG]

Chris i purchased 8 Certates over a period of 3 or 4 years all of which have had the line rollers replaced at least twice; more on reels used more often. It is not like i do not look after my equipment; i err on the side of fastidious. I wish i was more of a fresh water fisho at times; the problems with reels, motors and general fishing gear are just less. It is a pity the Certate range are like this as they are a fine reel but backed with poor service / parts unavailability and just bad designed line rollers. My saltiga range of reels of the same age do not suffer the line roller problem at all so Daiwa are capable of doing it right. It was a shame that the new Certates are the same or similar in this department; Daiwa have let a chance to improve their design go by the wayside instead opting to produce a reel that in my opinion is not as good as it's predecessor. Over the last 12 months i have slowly been replacing my Certates with Stella's which to this point has proved to be a winner of a plan although it makes the credit card scream a lot. Fortunately my wife is also a keen fisho and has seen the benefit of the Stella range over Daiwa engineering.

I've had 4 and all have had issues with line rollers ....... the last one lasted 1 trip to the salt (previously only used for impoundment barra)
I've always loved them ...... they are the best mid end spin real going and like you have done you need to step up to a Shimano stella to find a better alternative

Chris

[NAGG]

A question for reel aficionados ......

Are ceramic or shielded bearings available for Daiwa line rollers ?

Chris

[nigelr]

Nagg would be worth a try taking the original bearing into a bearing/engineering supplies shop, they would know the answer to that question.
There is also an on-line mob that specialise in small bearings, sorry can't remember their name, in the US I think...
So what is the difference with the Stellas? Bush instead of bearing, or sealed bearing instead of 'open'?
Cheers.

[shanejohnson]

superior engineering nig

[Chamelion]

In my opinion the Pflueger Medalist reels have the best line rollers. I've put mine through so much and it's just silky smooth and completely silent.

[Sevric]

superior engineering nig

That sums it up in a nut shell Shane. Daiwa can do it but have not bothered, that is the real gripe with me; slack really for a manufacturer of great equipment. My upgrades to the Stella range have cost me heaps but the engineering gets better all the time not remaining stationary with a poor track record as the Certates have earned them selves with the line roller issues. The new Certates are yet to be proven but already i notice some are complaing about the service factor involved with the new magnetic oil stuff. Great technology for sure but it takes service away from any one other than Daiwa and i will not be playing that game from the previous experiences i have had with their service department. The Stella is a lot more money but it is also a lot better reel containing reliable materials and outstanding engineering. Yes there is a difference, a very big difference.

[nigelr]

Yeah see what you mean Shane and Sevric, the schematics tell the story.
This great schematics link for those with an interest who aren't aware of it...
http://mikesreelrepair.com/schematics/index.php?cat=4 (http://mikesreelrepair.com/schematics/index.php?cat=4)

[reggy]

I have a Daiwa Caprice 4000 and a Laguna 4000 which I considered to be throw away reels when I got them about 5 years ago.
They were $120 and $140 and are used to spin metals for school macs on 6kg mono.
I only give them a hose down and a spray with wd40 after use and even if one does not get used on the day, it still gets salt water all over it.
They are both still running smoothly and that includes the line rollers.
Sometimes you can be lucky!

[robtarr]

I've had 4 and all have had issues with line rollers ....... the last one lasted 1 trip to the salt (previously only used for impoundment barra)
I've always loved them ...... they are the best mid end spin real going and like you have done you need to step up to a Shimano stella to find a better alternative

Chris


cold comfort but up until now I'd thought it was my bad luck that I'd had trouble with the Certate line roller - I get paranoid about the roller in my 3500 HD - I rinse and spray after every session and it's going to need replacing again

[Strewth]

A question for reel aficionados ......

Are ceramic or shielded bearings available for Daiwa line rollers ?

Chris

Take it out an measure the inside diam, the outside diam and thickness in mm. Boca Bearings in the US have a huge range of bearings to fit all reels, and will ship them to you cheap if the order is less than $50. I get all my stuff from them. You should be able to get ceramics (ie ceramics balls, but stainless cage and casing) for all Daiwa line rollers - probably ABEC5 rated which will be super smooth.

I always pack my line rollers with grease before using them, and rarely have dramas. My 4 year old Certate is still nice and quiet.