old technology wins again

[reggy]

I have just noticed that the Shimano Charter Special pulls 15 kg of max drag and weighs 485grams.
The new Shimano Talica 10 pulls 9kgs of max drag and weighs 527 grams.
The fact that you can buy 3 Charter Specials for the price of one Talica 10 must please all Charter Special owners very much.

[finding_time]

Doesn't tell the whole story Reggy!!

Hve you any idea how lumpy the charter soecials drag is at 15 kg? Or how much the casing distorts at that drag??

[Willo]

Reggy
I Have owned two Charter specials in the past,and now have a Talica 10 2 speed and the Charter Special does not even come close to the preformance of the Talica
The Talica are in a class of there own .

Willo

[reggy]

Then why does Shimano publish more max drag for this reel than a TLD25, Tyrnos 10- 2 speed, and a few more reels that are bigger and heavier than it.?

It even equals the TN40 and 50.;)

[diabolical]

Doesn't tell the whole story Reggy!!

Hve you any idea how lumpy the charter soecials drag is at 15 kg? Or how much the casing distorts at that drag??



No, it does not tell the whole story. BUT........... If you add a topless aluminium frame(from alan tani) Carbontex drag washer with cals grease, heavy bellevilles and a better handle the comparison is a very much closer call. Even with these upgrades the price is still half the price(aust retail) of the Talica.


SWMBO has given me the ok to get a Talica and it sure would look pretty along- side the Torsa.

[Willo]

Then why does Shimano publish more max drag for this reel than a TLD25, Tyrnos 10- 2 speed, and a few more reels that are bigger and heavier than it.?

It even equals the TN40 and 50.;)

Yeh Reggy
Im only giving advice on what I know from personal experience.
I also have a TLD a TN 16 the Torsa ,and Tiagra amongst others,
And after just spending a full week fishing the Talica with 60lb braid up at 1770 can Honestly say that the Talica offers everything the Torsa does but in a compact size.
The Talicas were designed for the High end game market and with Briad use in mind
We are talking about preformance here .

Willo

[reggy]

So, it`s a 20lb class reel that pulls 30lbs of max drag? interesting!

[Willo]

No Problems then Reggy
Best ya go buy the Charter Special then
Cheers Willo

[Spaniard_King]

Reggy,

maybe you should just keep the charter special and leave the talica's to those that appreciate them

[GBC]

That's like buying a HSV over a porsche 911 because its got more kw and is cheaper too. Ergo it MUST be better?:'(

[reggy]

No Problems then Reggy
Best ya go buy the Charter Special then
Cheers Willo

Don`t need to. My Avet and my Torium pull more than enough drag for the reef.

[reggy]

That's like buying a HSV over a porsche 911 because its got more kw and is cheaper too. Ergo it MUST be better?:'(
So, you are saying" max drag" isn`t everything. Build quality is more desireable.

I agree with that. That`s why I like my old Avet JX so much. Now that`s a Porche!

[finga]

How much drag does an Alvey deck winch or snapper reel have??

Not real good for casting though :(

[Brent_P]

The drag ratings of the Charter Special published in the Shimano Australia catalogue, the Shimano Australia website, and the Shimano US website are an error. The Charter Special is basically a TLD 10 with a level wind, so naturally it would not have a higher max. drag than a TLD 25, since the drag washer is made from the same material, only it is quite a bit smaller in diameter.

I bought a Charter Special TR2000LD 14 or 15 years ago, and I still have it. Last night, I set the strike drag at 7kg and I could barely push the drag lever to strike, and didn't want to try a higher setting, through fear of snapping the plastic lever off. At 7kg at strike, free spool was lost to the extent that when I tied a 4oz sinker to the end of the line, it would not pull line from the reel. (Max.drag at strike generally refers to max. drag at strike with freespool). Of course, the drag was not smooth either, at this setting.

It is also worth mentioning that the pinion gear of the Charter Special is quite soft. A few years ago, I opened the reel to find that the pinion gear teeth were deeply notched, where they contacted the main gear teeth, and as a result the reel was no longer smooth. I never ran more than 4kg drag on this reel, and often a bit less, and never caught a fish bigger than 4kg on it.

I am only posting this reply because people might buy a Charter Special TR2000LD thinking they can fish 15kg of drag with it.

Brent.

EDIT:

I have just read the Charter Special tutorial on Alan Tani's website. If you replace the stock canvas drag washer with a Penn HT100 washer, you can have "a smooth drag from 1 pound up to 15 pound" and "a max. drag at strike of 15 pounds before losing freespool" (I hope Alan Tani doesn't mind me quoting him). A carbontex washer would probably yield similar results.

[reggy]

It`s not only on their websites. It is in their 2010 catalogue. :o
How can they keep making the same error?

[alantani]

brent, it's no problem. the charter special really is a wonderful reel. we could pit this older technology against the talica, but it is so much more than just numbers.......

when i take people out fishing, i have a very nice set of daiwa line counters for them to use. if they drop one overboard, we have a good laugh and go on fishing. for my personal use, however, i have a pair of shimano calcutta 300 te's. the are marvelous reels. mostly, they are just a pleasure to crank. is the drag range higher than most? no. is the freespool better? no. are they shinier, prettier, smoother and more expensive? definitely, yes! so, for some, a little bling goes a long way!

but for others, particularly the younger fishermen, there is an advantage to being able to take a less expensive reel, hot rod it, and then be able to catch something amazing. you know, hot rodded a charter special 2000 with a frame, handle upgrade. drags, and bearing work for a friend. he went on a long range trip and caught a half dozen yellowtail. it is now his favorite reel. i think he even sleeps with it.

we are all different, and those differences should be celebrated.

[Brent_P]

Hi Alan,

Firstly, I'd like to say what a great help your website has been, whenever I'm servicing a reel or deciding what reel to buy (or not buy). Unfortunately, you don't like spinning reels, but you can't have everything, I suppose.

I also think that websites like yours, and people like yourself, are at least partly responsible for the big name brands finally starting to adopt carbon fibre drag washers as stock in their mid to high range conventional and spinning reels. So, thanks for that.

Those topless aluminium frames for the Charter Special look really good. Although the level wind on my reel never seized, it was always very wobbly, and I'm not sure if I just got a bad one. I used to like the level wind feature, but now I'd rather not have one on a reel that size.

Personally, I like using the smallest possible reel with the highest possible drag capability and the thinnest possible braid for the drag setting I'm using. I like the idea of using small reels and light rods for big fish, and the feeling of being under-gunned, with the knowledge that I'm not really under-gunned at all. Most importantly, I like using gear that is physically light enough that catching smaller fish on it is still enjoyable, but which has enough guts to defeat the big fish.

Yellowtail (I know you call a kind of mackerel a "kingfish" in the US) are the only fish that have consistently cut me off on the bottom on drag settings lower than 20lb, when fishing here over particularly "reefy" areas off the Gold Coast, and so when I fish for them I ideally want a reel that can exceed 20lb's of drag. 30lb's (13kg) of drag is even better, but I don't think I could easily handle much more than that.

I hope you get a chance to post a tutorial on the Talica or Talica II some time, or the new Saltiga 2-speed and single speed, but I suppose you only see the reels you're sent and those you buy yourself.

Sorry to everyone else if I got a bit off topic.

Cheers,

Brent.

[JB]

LOLZ @ Charter special comparisions to a talica... give a man a break is this a gee up lol

[diabolical]

LOLZ @ Charter special comparisions to a talica... give a man a break is this a gee up lol


What can the Talica 10 do that the "hot rodded" charter special can't?:P

[finding_time]

That`s why I like my old Avet JX so much. Now that`s a Porche!


LOL! Go catch something decent and you might change your mind when the anti reverse rachet fails and you loose a good fish! It's happened to mine 3 times! It is now my bait jig reel that's how much i think of my AVET!!!!;) I just hope i dont get 6 big fat slimey's on at the same time that pull in the same direction, or a 4th failure could be on the cards!!

Ian

[reggy]

LOL! Go catch something decent and you might change your mind when the anti reverse rachet fails and you loose a good fish! It's happened to mine 3 times! It is now my bait jig reel that's how much i think of my AVET!!!!;) I just hope i dont get 6 big fat slimey's on at the same time that pull in the same direction, or a 4th failure could be on the cards!!

Ian
You are right about one thing . Alcohol doesn`t agree with you.
Maybee you need to do some maintenance on your Avet.
I have caught many good fish on my Avet, but I keep it serviced.

[finding_time]

Yep that theroy would have been a good reply but the first time the reel failed it was 2 weeks old i was on the shelf of DI! Then it went back to the supplier and they took 3 months to get it back to me, after i got it back i went to 1770 , the first trip out i hooked a 6 foot whaler about 5 minutes in the anti reverse rachet failed again!!!! I then sent it back to the supplier , this time he sent it back to the States.. i didn't see my as new reel again for 6 months and when i got it back it can with a reason for the failure that didn't really make sense to me and i was very hesitant to use the reel again , so that night i sat infront of the TV winding the handle forward and backward to test the anti reverse , I failed at least 10 times in the 30 minutes i was playing with it.... WTF !!!! You see Reggy the anti reverse rachet is poorly designed and it can fail to engage when under load!! Now i could have sent it back to the states again and i had the feeling that would have been a complete waste of time or i could try and fixit myself As you can see in the pictures below the gear wheel is bullet proof but the problem with mine was the ratchet latch was not a great shape to engage the rachet wheel so i reshaped it( see 3rd pic) my self and i'm yet to have a failure but i have lost total confidence in this reel!! It is a poor refection on "AVET" that this reel came out this way to start with and a poorer reflection that they had it back for repair twice and were unable to solve the issue on either occasion!!!! It is hardly a porche!!!

Reggy

I have over 40 high quality reels ,

5 x alutecnos albacore 20's
3 x tiagra 80w's
1x tiagra 50w lrs
1 x30 w lrs
3 x calcutta's
2 x certates
etc etc etc

I maintain all my reels and i know a quality when i use one and the avet i brought was not a quality reel!!! Back to you!;)

[bugman]

I have over 40 high quality reels ,

5 x alutecnos albacore 20's
3 x tiagra 80w's
1x tiagra 50w lrs
1 x30 w lrs
3 x calcutta's
2 x certates
etc etc etc


Well...... Does Kath know this ?????????

[finding_time]

Well...... Does Kath know this ?????????

I'm at critical mass, new ones just blend in... it's good place to be!;D ;D

[brisbane_boy]

give me a diawa sealine 400 or 600 for reef fishn any day over any of these lightweight lever drags, with 1 finger i can go from freespool to 10kg of drag using the star drag, and the power is there in the reel to keep the fish coming unlike the charters or tlds, heavier reel but a lot easier on the winding hand at the end of the day

[reggy]

Yep that theroy would have been a good reply but the first time the reel failed it was 2 weeks old i was on the shelf of DI! Then it went back to the supplier and they took 3 months to get it back to me, after i got it back i went to 1770 , the first trip out i hooked a 6 foot whaler about 5 minutes in the anti reverse rachet failed again!!!! I then sent it back to the supplier , this time he sent it back to the States.. i didn't see my as new reel again for 6 months and when i got it back it can with a reason for the failure that didn't really make sense to me and i was very hesitant to use the reel again , so that night i sat infront of the TV winding the handle forward and backward to test the anti reverse , I failed at least 10 times in the 30 minutes i was playing with it.... WTF !!!! You see Reggy the anti reverse rachet is poorly designed and it can fail to engage when under load!! Now i could have sent it back to the states again and i had the feeling that would have been a complete waste of time or i could try and fixit myself As you can see in the pictures below the gear wheel is bullet proof but the problem with mine was the ratchet latch was not a great shape to engage the rachet wheel so i reshaped it( see 3rd pic) my self and i'm yet to have a failure but i have lost total confidence in this reel!! It is a poor refection on "AVET" that this reel came out this way to start with and a poorer reflection that they had it back for repair twice and were unable to solve the issue on either occasion!!!! It is hardly a porche!!!

Reggy

I have over 40 high quality reels ,

5 x alutecnos albacore 20's
3 x tiagra 80w's
1x tiagra 50w lrs
1 x30 w lrs
3 x calcutta's
2 x certates
etc etc etc

I maintain all my reels and i know a quality when i use one and the avet i brought was not a quality reel!!! Back to you!;)I`m very sorry to hear that.
While we are on the car analogies, your story reminds me of the second Mercedes my wife had. It was a POS too.
Good thing you have a lot of other very nice reels.
I can only say my Avet story is much more fortunate than yours.
All the best.
Reggy

[reggy]

give me a diawa sealine 400 or 600 for reef fishn any day over any of these lightweight lever drags, with 1 finger i can go from freespool to 10kg of drag using the star drag, and the power is there in the reel to keep the fish coming unlike the charters or tlds, heavier reel but a lot easier on the winding hand at the end of the day
Great reels!