Gut and Gill comps should be banned!

[poddy mullet]

What is everone's thoughts on banning Gut and Gill comps in the interest and the future of Recreational fishing?? I believe that all comps should be catch and release oriented! I know everone has a right to keep a feed but are do we all agree that in the best interests of our waterways future Catch and release should be encouraged, particulary at all major comps?? When I visited the Grabine comp at Wyanagal Dam it was very sad to see all the small fish struggling to breath in keeper nets across the dam...
Your thought greatly appreciated...Matt

[Captain Seaweed]

They did it at Fraser where live tanks were set up on the beach. i dont know how they would go in the Moreton Bay comp as long distances are travelled by boat.

[poddy mullet]

Interesting thought Captain S...I guess I was looking at a Freshwater impoundment perspective, but an interesting thought indeed! Matt

[Captain Seaweed]

Sorry Poddy, I just realised you were discussing freshwater. I followed one of your posts from the Moreton Bay fishing comp! Yes freshwater would definitely be a great idea.

Marty

[jimbamb]

been thinking that way for years.killing fish to win a trophy isn't my idea of fishing or proving someone is the better fisher.
Try fishing in an impoundment for weeks after a comp!!!!
Jim

[lifestyle]

fresh water comps yep catch photo release idea is good. I thought most fresh water comps in qld are like this. Matt Ffraser should be able to shed some light on this one.

[rayken1938]

No reason why saltwater comps cant also be catch,photo and release. I was in one at Brunswick Heads recently and DPI even provided each competitor with a brag mat. A few competitors kept a couple of fish for a feed but the majority were released.
Cheers
Ray

[Chamelion]

I agree, even for salt water.. I was about to enter a comp recently until I realised that it was gut and gill only.. I've since rescinded my intention to sign up.

I believe people should be allowed to keep a few fish for a feed but I think current bag and size limits need to be far stricter. Comps should ALL be catch and release.

That's how I feel and before anyone gets their knickers in a bunch and chimes in I respect that my opinion isn't going to be the same as everyone elses.

[PinHead]

I agree, even for salt water.. I was about to enter a comp recently until I realised that it was gut and gill only.. I've since rescinded my intention to sign up.

I believe people should be allowed to keep a few fish for a feed but I think current bag and size limits need to be far stricter. Comps should ALL be catch and release.

That's how I feel and before anyone gets their knickers in a bunch and chimes in I respect that my opinion isn't going to be the same as everyone elses.

One of the biggest things that annoys me with rec fishos and a lot of these so called fish friendly comps is: the anglers have bugger all idea about handling the fish and just because it is put back in the water does not mean it is going to survive. have a look at all the flathead pics you see..fish out ofthe water..fish held in bare hands..fish held vertically..might as well just put em in the seky..same result..the fish dies.

[Captain Seaweed]

Bragmat and pic are a great idea. When it comes to comps with major prizes up around 50k then I recon there must be a clear way of identifying winners or else there may be legal implications as sad as it sounds but there are some sore losers around. Why not have a method where a scale is removed and this is tested for freshness and then size is calculated?

Marty

[trymyluck]

Not sure if it should be banned but maybe optional for a brag mat and pic with maybe a bonus for releasing some of the bigger fish. And some regs and information on how fish are to be handled and released. Education goes a long way. But nobody should be looked down on for keeping legal fish for eating. Maybe comps should be banned full stop..............at least in my back yard.....;D

[PaulMark]

Pirtek Challenge uses the Bragmat/Photo concept,I think times are changing and the public perception of us as custodians would be enhanced by such a change in the way comps are run.IMO

Paulo

[tunaticer]

Gut and gill comps are ok if they are able to present their best fish of each species for entry, not the bag limit. I think however that all comps should make it mandatory to use a livewell so upgrades can be possible by all participants. The end of the day, they should be able to take their catch home after a comp whether or not it is a bag limit or not.
Just making an across the board rule about everyone using a livewell will result in a better fishery and encourage responsible upgrading. I wonder if livewells can be legislated into all competitions as a matter of law?

[Spot82]

In an offshore comp how are you going to keep a 15kg red emperor alive? Thats a bloody big live well!!! And in any case, anyone catching reef fish for a comp will keep them for a feed anyways.

For impoundment and land or bay based comps with appropriate species then yes it should be the way.

As others have mentioned there needs to be a lot better education of people who practice catch and release fishing as a lot of people don't know the correct techniques.

[Chamelion]

One of the biggest things that annoys me with rec fishos and a lot of these so called fish friendly comps is: the anglers have bugger all idea about handling the fish and just because it is put back in the water does not mean it is going to survive. have a look at all the flathead pics you see..fish out ofthe water..fish held in bare hands..fish held vertically..might as well just put em in the seky..same result..the fish dies.

Agreed entirely. Matt.

[poddy mullet]

Sorry guys, I just wanna clear up that this post was intended for freshwater impoundment comps, but it sure is interesting to hear ideas on salt water comps as well.

I just feel that encouraging everyone to pull out the freshwater breedstock to win a prize is not what we are trying to acheive. If you want a feed, take a good pan size one. Its much like taking a "yearling" steer- the meat is much better! Let the big breeders go for the sake of the future! Take a photo and frame it-it will last much longer then the after tatse. Matt

[banshee]

..........I just feel that encouraging everyone to pull out the freshwater breedstock to win a prize is not what we are trying to acheive......... [/INDENT]



The thing is that apart from Saratoga and on rare occasions when conditions are perfect,Cod,I cant think of a targeted species that can breed in a dam.I'm not a fan of concentrating large numbers of anglers in any given spot for the purpose of catching fish, but if your going to do it a stocked impoundment is probably the best place ,after all they are put there to reduce pressure on wild stocks.

[poddy mullet]

They may only breed in some circumstances in impoundments, but what stops the breed stock travelling up the river arm to spawn/breed, before returning to the impoundment? Matt

[banshee]

Which species of fish or comps are we talking about?

[aussiebasser]

For Bass and Barra, a bloody great concrete wall slows them down a bit. For Yella's and Silvers, in most Queensland dams they don't occur naturally anyway. Even those areas where they did appear naturally, there is a pretty good stocking scheme to keep the numbers up. You may want to read what I posted on Sweetwater about Catch and Release fishing being banned in some European countries. Trying to ban fishing for a feed will be playing straight in to PETA's hand. NSW could be a different issue, your licence fee down there just goes into gubberment coffers, up here most of it goes back to community stocking groups. Set you aim higher, don't hit at the people catching fish, hit at your gubberment to change their priorities and put your licence money to good use, not just to bolster their superannuation. Wasting money on a feral species like trout could be a good place to start your argument with them. If somebody came up with the idea now, to import a species and stock it in our waters when it has to ability to breed and compete with native species they'd be laughed out of existence, and yet, your gubberment promotes this environmental vandalism.

[banshee]

................. NSW could be a different issue, your licence fee down there just goes into gubberment coffers..............


Not really,the amount used for admin out of the rec license revenue is caped at 10%,the other 90% is distributed by a board consisting of people elected by anglers.This system is not perfect by any means but is a lot better than other states who I believe lose all the money to consolidated revenue.

[leelee]

Whilst I find it hard to kill a fresh water fish, we must remember that almost all impoundment fish do not occure within that dam naturally. They have been placed there for either recreational and or scientific purposes and the later being the major reason.

Majority of the dams surrounding surrounding Brisbane have healthy populations but the reason they have fish swiming in them is because SEQ does tests on a regualr basis by electro fishing and killing the fish to find out the toxic conent and heavy metals etc present within the fish, which would then indicate problems within the water. The fish have been placed there to be indicators for this so please don't kid yourself to think they have been stocked purely for a recreational purpose.

With no predators present, who culls the fish from dams?

Lots of the locals that live around impoundments take a feed of fish as that is all they can get that is fresh so to speak.

Cheers

Lee

[NAGG]

In this day & age (digital cameras) - do we really need gut & gill comps :(

Chris

[Mike Delisser]

Whilst I find it hard to kill a fresh water fish, we must remember that almost all impoundment fish do not occure within that dam naturally. They have been placed there for either recreational and or scientific purposes and the later being the major reason.

Majority of the dams surrounding surrounding Brisbane have healthy populations but the reason they have fish swiming in them is because SEQ does tests on a regualr basis by electro fishing and killing the fish to find out the toxic conent and heavy metals etc present within the fish, which would then indicate problems within the water. The fish have been placed there to be indicators for this so please don't kid yourself to think they have been stocked purely for a recreational purpose.

Cheers

Lee



??? News to me, how come it's so hard to get permission to start stocking an impoundment then? I'd like to hear Dale's or Fitzy's take.

As for catch n kill comps V live weigh in and release, well there's already a rating system for comps. Best is the photo/brag mat n release, then livewell, & last of course is dead weigh in. Hopefuly this system can be used more and anglers will start looking into it before they enter a comp, if the issue is important to them. At least the angler will be making an informed decision.
I fish about 12 (livewell) bass comps and a few barra (photo) comps each year and I wouldn't have kept a freshwater fish for 8 years, but I would'nt want to see the end of catch n kill comps in put n take fisheries. The old Kirkleagh comp was mainly catch n kil (esp the early years) but even though a lot of fish were killed, the stocking group that ran it raised enough money to put a shitloads more fingerlings back in the dam. Nothing wrong with that in my books, it's a put n take fishery that is maintained by the local stocking group. So long as bag limits are observed and everyone has a SIP, I recon the stocking group should be envolved or at least benefit.
Also I wouldn't assume that 100% of fish that spend a few hours in a livewell live a long and healthy life, esp in summer.
Cheers
Mike

Edit
I haven't looked at their website yet but I just grabbed this off Wik.

In recent times, concern regarding the potential for large fishing tournaments to have impacts on the environment and fish stocks has lead to the development of an environmental standard for fishing tournaments. NEATFish[7] (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/#cite_note-6) (a National Environmental Assessment of Tournament Fishing) is an environmental standard designed in Australia for rating fishing tournaments with a 1 to 5 star rating system. The standard is based on a questionnaire that is available online at www.neatfish.com (http://www.neatfish.com). Tournament organisers can use the website to evaluate their tournaments environmental performance as well as social and economic aspects.

[Charlie]

Sorry guys, I just wanna clear up that this post was intended for freshwater impoundment comps, but it sure is interesting to hear ideas on salt water comps as well.



I just feel that encouraging everyone to pull out the freshwater breedstock to win a prize is not what we are trying to acheive. If you want a feed, take a good pan size one. Its much like taking a "yearling" steer- the meat is much better! Let the big breeders go for the sake of the future! Take a photo and frame it-it will last much longer then the after tatse. Matt


I'm fifty and have fished Wyangala for over forty years and trust me 99.9999999999% of the fish are stocked on a put and take basis,overall I don't believe one comp in wintertime has too much effect.

[aussiebasser]

In certain areas I'm sure SEQ Water use fish for water quality testing. In our stocked impoundments the stocking and most of the research is supervised out by DEEDI, I think the Scientific Research argument is a bit of a conspiracy theory. Having been involved with SWFSA for close to 10 years, I've never heard this discussed. We'll have over $100,000 this year to spend on Fingerlings. I don't think they'd need to spend that much just to do some research, although the Japanese spend more than that "researching " whales. There are no regulations covering fishing competitions that are enforceable. Anybody can front up at a Qld dam and run a catch and kill comp. As long as competitors don't have more than their legal limit in their possession they're not breaking a law. You can catch your bag, kill them, weigh them, throw them in the community rubbish bin and go out and do it all over again, Bass, Yella's, Silvers, Barra you name it. I don't advocate that, but preaching to sportsfishermen that it's wrong is like teaching Grandma to suck eggs. You have to set your sights on the authorities.

[leelee]

??? News to me, how come it's so hard to get permission to start stocking an impoundment then? I'd like to hear Dale's or Fitzy's take.

As for catch n kill comps V live weigh in and release, well there's already a rating system for comps. Best is the photo/brag mat n release, then livewell, & last of course is dead weigh in. Hopefuly this system can be used more and anglers will start looking into it before they enter a comp, if the issue is important to them. At least the angler will be making an informed decision.
I fish about 12 (livewell) bass comps and a few barra (photo) comps each year and I wouldn't have kept a freshwater fish for 8 years, but I would'nt want to see the end of catch n kill comps in put n take fisheries. The old Kirkleagh comp was mainly catch n kil (esp the early years) but even though a lot of fish were killed, the stocking group that ran it raised enough money to put a shitloads more fingerlings back in the dam. Nothing wrong with that in my books, it's a put n take fishery that is maintained by the local stocking group.
Also I wouldn't assume that 100% of fish that spend a few hours in a livewell live a long and healthy life, esp in summer.
Cheers
Mike

Edit
I haven't looked at their website yet but I just grabbed this off the net.

In recent times, concern regarding the potential for large fishing tournaments to have impacts on the environment and fish stocks has lead to the development of an environmental standard for fishing tournaments. NEATFish[7] (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/#cite_note-6) (a National Environmental Assessment of Tournament Fishing) is an environmental standard designed in Australia for rating fishing tournaments with a 1 to 5 star rating system. The standard is based on a questionnaire that is available online at www.neatfish.com (http://www.neatfish.com). Tournament organisers can use the website to evaluate their tournaments environmental performance as well as social and economic aspects.

Mike not sure what I am missing here but I have spoken to a few SEQ water guys and for instance the bass that are placed in North Pine are tested on a regular basis as are a few other dams.

Whilst I agree with Dale about it being a consipiracy theory, the logic surrounding why fish are places within our drinking water is sound. If heavy metals are found within the flesh of the fish from that dam, then the treatment of that water needs to be altered to minimise the effect it can have on us.

I don't understand the reference you made to stocking a dam either sorry?

Cheers

Lee

[Mike Delisser]

I don't understand the reference you made to stocking a dam either sorry?

Cheers

Lee

Hi Lee, I just don't think the major reason we are permited to stock dams is so water quality can be monitored, particularly as it's so hard to get the permision to commence a stocking program in the first place, hence that reference.

While I don't doubt heavy metals would show up in fish if present, I've been out netting once with a scientist (Dave Roberts?) at Nth Pine before, he said they're not looking at too many dams at all and there's over 30 on the SIP scheme alone and he didn't mention heavy metals. I would expect that if testing water quality was the major reason fish stocking was permitted the testing would be more wide spread and more regular that it is now. It would only be a guess but I recon a species that sits and feeds on the bottom like jewies could be a better tester for heavy metals anyway, or maybe the silt. That's just my take on it all though.
Cheers

[aussiebasser]

By the time the heavy metals show up in the Bass, it'll be too late for the Pine Rivers people. Water tests are carried out on the water. As I said, SEQWater and DEEDI have different agenda's. SEQWater own the dam, but not the fish in them. They don't set bag limits, stocking rates, size limits or license requirements for fishing. Your SEQWater permit only allows you to put you vessel on the water. It does not allow you to fish. That's all done by DEEDI. You do not need either to give permission to run a competition in Queensland.

[PinHead]

I was thinking along those lines also Dale..by the time the fish has the heavy metals in it, gets caught and tested,,the heavy metals are already in the drinking water. As for the comps..as long as the competitor abides by the comp rules and the relevant State Legislation then all is good...if you don't like the way a comp is conducted then don't enter it.

[aussiebasser]

There are a few here who are not looking at the wider picture, Leelee knows Lake Samsonvale, Poddy is talking about NSW impoundments and NSW laws, some are looking at Barra dams, I'm mainly talking about Wivenhoe and Somerset. Getting on the net and arguing, or even just discussing it amongst ourselves will achieve squat. You need to lobby the correct people, and pray that the Greens don't get too much power on Saturday. Up to you whether you vote Labour or Liberal, just be sure to put the highest number in the Greens box. Don't follow your party's preference system, vote Greens last!

[FNQCairns]

It's not for the monitoring of water quality in any way outside of the most seriously macro, a far better indicator of water health is the number and diversity of other smaller freshwater invertebrate life. this data is very easily obtained wherever there has already been a benchmarks researched.

Still nothing beats a flask taken to a lab at regular intervals. The science behind water quality within a range applicable to a water storage for downstream treated human consumption is very basic.

[leelee]

Hi Lee, I just don't think the major reason we are permited to stock dams is so water quality can be monitored, particularly as it's so hard to get the permision to commence a stocking program in the first place, hence that reference.

While I don't doubt heavy metals would show up in fish if present, I've been out netting once with a scientist (Dave Roberts?) at Nth Pine before, he said they're not looking at too many dams at all and there's over 30 on the SIP scheme alone and he didn't mention heavy metals. I would expect that if testing water quality was the major reason fish stocking was permitted the testing would be more wide spread and more regular that it is now. It would only be a guess but I recon a species that sits and feeds on the bottom like jewies could be a better tester for heavy metals anyway, or maybe the silt. That's just my take on it all though.
Cheers

I agree but I was only passing on what heard.

I agree with what Dale said about it being to late, but from memory, it was about 3 years ago, i was told that because North Pine was deemed a still water dam the water had to be treated differently to that of water coming from Wivenhoe or below because it had already been partially cleaned from either coming from Somerset and runing down into Big W or running out of Big W. Also the main ones they try to test on are actually catty's and I think thats due thier proximity wihtin the water column.

I just hope the green or labour don't get in on the weekend because no water will be safe from them locking us out.

Cheers

Lee

[rc@hinze]

Following on from Lee's comments regarding metal levels in stocked fish, here is a link to an article that appeared in 2006 regarding mercury levels in Hinze bass. Might be part of what was being said a few years back.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2006/11/05/1781379.htm?site=news

There is a good response that D-man put up on Ausfish regarding that article.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/archive/index.php/t-101095.html

I don't support the weigh and kill comps but as others have said, its a put and take fishery and most of them wouldn't be in the dams in the quantities they are unless it was due to the good work of the stocking groups in the first place.

What I did see at a ramp one day that disturbed me was a small comp or social event being finished up, several fish lifted out of the live well, measured and recorded, then being thrown 6 feet up and 10 feet out into the air as the method of release! Not much better than just killing them in the first place.

[Fitzy]

Fish stocking into public impoundments using community money for the major purpose of testing water quality? That's the most rediculous things I've heard in donkeys.

Where does crap like that originate from? Lee if someone at SEQ told you that, they're WAY WAY WAY off the mark & I'd really like to know who these people are. I've got a bit of an idea, & if correct it doesn't surprize me.

They may occasionally take fish to test these things, but a major reason? Not even a remotely minor reason, for fish being stocked.

If that were the case, I'd be sending our government departments / agencies an invoice for back-pay for over 20 years of work. Stuffed if I work my butt off for some poindexter to test for heavy metals. Let em jump over the side with a shovel. (I'd also be interested if those taking fish for testing have the relevant permits)

Fitzy..

[Charlie]

What I did see at a ramp one day that disturbed me was a small comp or social event being finished up, several fish lifted out of the live well, measured and recorded, then being thrown 6 feet up and 10 feet out into the air as the method of release! Not much better than just killing them in the first place.

I can understand you being upset however when they stock legal size trout in the US they simply dump them off the side of the bridge into the river, it doesn't look good but has been proven to cause no harm.

[leelee]

Where does crap like that originate from? Lee if someone at SEQ told you that, they're WAY WAY WAY off the mark & I'd really like to know who these people are. I've got a bit of an idea, & if correct it doesn't surprize me.

I honestly dont' know there name but they do work at North Pine for SEQ so if you think you know who it is then you are probably right on the money becuase I do not know there name sorry.

Once again this was only info that was passed onto me by SEQ so I assumed that they also contributed to stocking for these specific testing purposes from the discussions that were had.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Cheers

Lee