Should there be a rule ?

[Awoonga]

And l should be asleep but these thoughts keep going around in my head ! I better go back to the beginning before you think this old coot has lost it ! l just completed in the Mondy Cup .A barramundi catch and release tournament run by Matt Fraser { Top Effort Matt } Now lets see if l can paint the picture. The event consists of three sessions 6am to 11 am. 1pm to 6pm and another session on Sunday from 6am to 11am You can you prefish the event and try and find areas that the fish are holding. Now if you are very lucky you may find as we say a” honey hole “ A area that seems to have plenty of willing fish. This will be your No1 spot in the tournament. You hope and pray that the fish shall bite and no one will beat you to “Your “ spot. The event morning session starts and yes the fish are still there and you have your best session on a barra dam. So you return at the end of section one and yes your team are leading. Fantastic effort. Hang in there folks l am getting to it ! Now the area that you caught the fish is in plane view of most of the other competitors. Most have caught nothing. You have only a small boat and even though you will start the next session first most of the other boats shall pass you in the first Km from the start. Now the question ! Is the honey hole open slather ? or ? Now l have a fast boat so l got there first but l didn’t fish it. My job was to the mind the spot until the leading team arrived . l did this for two sessions After the first session it became quite clear that wind blown points that tapered slowly into the water where the ones to fish.. Some might say silly fool you. Yes l put my hand up and said to the team that was leading that l would do it . They never asked for it .l am not asking for a pat on the back or sympathy l did what l did because the tournament should be won on skill not on who has the fastest boat. So should there be a rule that says this Gps spot is mine during a event. Do we need a rule ? or is there a unwritten understanding that says its etiquette. If there is how does this be conveyed to new competitors ? Your thoughts please

[robersl]

Etiquette i would think, (But what is to stop someone not fishing the tourney to be sitting in the spot before they get there) ,But when money and prizes are involved all Etiquette and fairness goes out the window with a lot of people in comps.
P.S good on you Trev for doing what you did Maybe there should be a better handicap for boats with a smaller motor

Shane

[BR65]

First up congrats Matt Fraser!

Ettiquette Trev I would say, though Shane raises a valid point re some one not a comp angler being in the spot.
Personally, I would leave it alone unless invited to fish there by the "discoverers".
Part of the reason why Im not comp keen, that plus the missus wouldnt let me go last week end. Theres not a lot of kudos in stealing some one elses spot.

[matt fraser]

Trev,

It will become a rule (For Barra Trophy Comps Anyway) not etiquette. As will several other 'Code of Conduct' points.

These will shift from 'Code of Conduct' to 'Rules' that will be penalised by 50 to 100cm per offence. But these breaches will need to be reported for me to take action.

I'll be reviewing my rules, sequence of events, processes etc, and fine tuning the details to improve the events for everyone.

I have spoken to teams about a couple of issues, and they do feel really bad about it, and apologised.

Cheers,

Matt

[rc@hinze]

Well done on running a successful comp this weekend Matt. I sure you are happy and relieved. And well done Trev on what you did for the new boys with their spot - you are a gentleman.

It a shame to think comps may be dominated by just the fast boats or the teams/individuals with the most money to have the best set ups. Comps need to based on the skills of the anglers\teams. Even in V8 supercars there are rules to see that it is very level playing field when it comes to the vehicles and the skill remains with the driver and teams.

Maybe GPS spots are the answer or handicap or speed limit. I understand that even the 30m distance is not a rule but just a courtesy that is often infringed on by teams that are put winning over etiquette and common courtesy.
- cheers Richard

[bugman]

Trev,

Interesting thoughts. I probably don't have an answer but I'll give you an example of what happens in the gamefishing world.

Similar story. Most guys pre-fish and those lucky enough to find where the billies are biting hit it hard on the first day. Over drinks that night it usually comes out where the succesful teams have been fishing. Day two there are usually lots of blowflies following those teams out to the same locations.

Now in gamefishing there can be lots of water between fish and boats but often - as has been the case this year - fishing have been holding tight on big bait schools and caught livebaiting rather than towing lures. So it is quite common to see 2 or 3 dozen boats holding on areas about the size of 5-6 football fields. Still a lot of room you think - not really with marlin or sailfish going crazy everywhere.

So GENERALLY there is just a lot of common sense from all skippers and anglers who do the right thing in taking their place in the drift line and getting out of the road when hooked fish go mad. Ettiquite plays a very big part because you'd hope that someone else does the right thing for you when your fish goes steaming for their lines or boat.

Anyway I guess what I'm saying is - the last thing we want is for people to peg out their patch of water like gold prospectors. It's fishing - and yes big prizes are on offer in comps - but commonsense must prevail.

If extra boats - noise - or pressure puts fish down in barra comps then anglers should realise that no-one benefits from crowding.

I would hate to see rules of this nature entering fishing.

Brett

[leelee]

Yes it’s definitely an etiquette issue but you cannot enforce it even with rules. People with no manners will always steal your spot when money is on the line as technically they are not breaking the rules, but morally it is not right.

For example –

I know spot X fishes well in afternoon but for first session I fish spot Y that is within site of spot X. I just fish there to keep an eye on it. An angler turns up and catches fish. Great I say. That means they will be there for the arvo session and I can’t wait for that to happen.

Now when everyone see’s me fishing there for the arvo session they will naturally assume that I was rude and have no manners when I get there first in the arvo because everyone will think I followed them there or decided to drop in on their honey hole, but actually the truth is I already knew about that spot and planned to fish it, but how do I prove that?.

This happens in every comp for every species and is hard to enforce.

Well done Trev for guarding the spot and it’s a hard question to answer because anglers can’t be expected to submit a list of places they may want to fish after each session or even prior to the event and also people cannot read each others minds.

Will watch this with a close eye to see what ideas people come up with.

Cheers

Lee

[brisbane_boy]

I go for the biggest fish takes all with a total numbers being somewhere down the list of priorities, imo getting away from making comps a numbers and or total fish length caught scenario should give everyone some breathing space. same happens in a lot of comps where numbers is the game, billfish as bugman pointed out are no exception and that is without the goldfish bowl area to fish, you notice how things change when its heavy tackle verses the light tackle grounds.

[Steve B]

Trev, You have witnessed a dilema that has been occcouring since day dot in tournaments of all species.

Its just bad luck for the competitor and bad sportsmanship for those that do it. I think the bloke who cuts in, and everyone knows who they are...will be branded accordingly.....if they want that tarnish on their reputation as a person for the sake of winning...well?????

No rule should be made. There is too many variables. What IF the bloke chose not to go back to the same spot in sess 2??? What if the wind changed, and the spot was no good?? who knows who owns what spot??? No one owns any of the lake. What if someone else found that spot in prefish too, like Lee said. Its too damn complicated!!!!! If it wasn't, ABT would have done it with Bass and Bream years ago where the problem is worse.. It would end in more arguements than now, I gurantee it.

I dont think it's a good idea to be able to 'bag' a spot....I mean, how much dam can you 'reserve' rightfully.

Its happened to all of us from time to time. It happened to me at Teemburra, got beaten to spot A then spot B....unfortunatly its part of the sport.....but cutting in after seeing someone catch fish there...thats unsportsman like. Maybe the culprits didnt understand the 'ettiquete'..so I think Matt handled it well by the sounds of things. Well done to you for doing what you did. Very good gesture.

Well done to Matt for all his hard work organising a great comp too. Good to see a good roll up, and a few fish too.

Cheers Steve

[Peter4]

I think it depends on a number of issues. Being the affected party of this thread I will give you my thoughts.

If we were fishing an 'area' under electric power and moving around then anyone had full right and was welcome to do the same thing as long as they stayed outside the 30m distance from us (which was a rule in this tournament).

As it was we tied off to a particular tree and worked over a very small area. After our initial success I was quite happy to explain what we did and where we did it to anyone that asked....everyone could see us from the main channel anyway.

I was also quite clear that it was our intention to return to our tie off tree for the next session.

Near the middle of the first session another team came up to the 30m mark to the right of us. They then called over and asked if it was OK for them to tie off to a tree that was right on the boundary. We said "Yep - go for it" and enjoyed their company for the rest of the session and the second session as well. We also watched them drop three and then catch four fish to our three and we wished them all the best for it.

There was absolutely no agro and both teams were happy.

If Matt wants to make it a rule then perhaps those that intend to return to a particular spot must let it be known to officials so that it can be communicated to the other teams. Asking permission to fish next to another team already in place is also good etiquette. Let's face it - you would only return to the same spot if you were successful there in the first place.

If we had gotten to our spot to find it occupied by another competitor we would not have been happy but we would simply have moved on...what else could we do?

No easy answers for this one I'm afraid.

Pete

[Whitto]

Pete I think you are spot on.

[BR65]

Problem is, biggest fish takes all rewards good luck, not good consistancy.

[brisbane_boy]

If winning at all costs relies on peeing on a tree to mark ones territory or having other boats protect a spot thats the kind of consistency id happily see someone else have. personally I get more satisfaction finding and landing a monster barra, we have all been there and skull dragged a heap of average barra for some insane meterage tally, its getting pretty old.

[Steve B]

If winning at all costs relies on peeing on a tree to mark ones territory or having other boats protect a spot thats the kind of consistency id happily see someone else have. personally I get more satisfaction finding and landing a monster barra, we have all been there and skull dragged a heap of average barra for some insane meterage tally, its getting pretty old.


Bris boy,

I sorta see what your saying mate, and kinda agree. But, in the context of a comp, where the fishing is very very difficult, Pete found a spot that produced fish....he may well have got that 'monster barra' he was searching for in this spot that was working.

The point being, a small % of others are too lazy or not capable of finding and landing their own fish, that they muscle in on the bloke who has cracked a pattern...thats the point of this post.

I agree, I would happily drive past anyone catching fish and say 'good on em' then go and locate my own somewhere else.....thats what 99% of tourno fishos do...but 1% are lazy, inconsiderate and have no ettiquette. Its not about peeing on trees!!!.

And for the record, Its not as easy as 'racking up the smaller fish'.....any barra tourno fisho will tell you EVERY fish is a bonus. I cant tell where the little fish are and the big fish are....can anyone..really??

Cheers Steve

[PaulMark]

Well done Trev,its etiquette really but I guess its also survival of the fittest(read fastest).Not sure if theres an answer,other than good manners.I remember fishing matches in the UK where you pick your peg out of a hat,and the disappointment when you realise you'll be sitting for 5hrs counting the blades of grass cos you've drawn a barren stretch.So I guess being able to move around is a bonus,nice if they ask if its ok tho.
Paulo

[Awoonga]

Tactics, Comp fishing is about Tactics. The word Etiquette should not be used at all. This is a sport with prizemoney . A conduct code you break it you pay

[PaulMark]

Of course you are quite right Trev.Comp fishing and social fishing two very different animals.Comp fisherman the apex predator you're there to win,you've paid your entry fee,theres points at stake and...prizemoney!.
Paulo

[PinHead]

it is a competition...no such thing as etiquette in comps..hence one of the reasons I don't enter any. Fastest, luckiest and sometimes most skilful wins.

[Mike Delisser]

I can't agree with that Pin, I can't recall competing a comp where the guy with the fastest boat has won. And I don't believe the luckiest normally wins either, I have seen bad luck take out an angler who's put themself in a possie to win (breakdown ect) but for the most part I recon you make your own luck.
The skill level at the pointy end of bass/bream/barra tournies is so high these days it an incredable effort just to get a top 10 finish. The angler of the year winners in some series fish a whole year and never finish out of the top 1/2 dozen places and that's in events with 60 or 70 starters.

Tough rule to police Matt, lots of grey. Is it only the leaders who get to have their spot locked up? Bit of a hornet's nest. Have you thought about calling the leaders after each session up session for an interveiw, what lure, tech, ect. If they want to name their spot infront of everybody they can, anyone who swooped in under them then wouldn't be looked upon highly would they.

Well done with the comp anyway Matt, where can I see the results?
See you at Somerset of Fri I hope.
Cheers

[Steve B]

I can't agree with that Pin, I can't recall competing a comp where the guy with the fastest boat has won. And I don't believe the luckiest normally wins either, I have seen bad luck take out an angler who's put themself in a possie to win (breakdown ect) but for the most part I recon you make your own luck.
The skill level at the pointy end of bass/bream/barra tournies is so high these days it an incredable effort just to get a top 10 finish. The angler of the year winners in some series fish a whole year and never finish out of the top 1/2 dozen places and that's in events with 60 or 70 starters.


totally agree mike, Its hard to explain unless you have been there. I remember a young 16Year old Carl J at somerset with a winning bag....getting a cracked hull and filling with water only to be late back and disqualified!!!

The cream definately rises to the top....regardless of boat speed. Look at the Taylor boys. If you look at the top 10 in every event bass, bream or barra and a handful of names always seem to appear.

The etiquette has to be there in tournaments....its like golf. You can yell out ' BET YA MISS THE PUT' while they are putting....its not illegal...but its immoral. At a certain point you cant regulate everything....commonsense and ettiquete has to prevail from anglers......and from the most part it does.

Steve

[Archer]

There is of course a simple solution....

Don't post the results of the 1st or 2nd round untill the 3rd round is complete!;)

That way nobody knows who caught fish or where unless they are lucky enough or the anglers silly enough to show a caught fish with another boat close by...

[Mike Delisser]

It could Archer but increasingly the most popular comps, and not just with anglers but with the sponsors (and they pay the bills) are the more open and accountable ones. Who shares wins you told me once Trev!!!

[Steve B]

There is of course a simple solution....

Don't post the results of the 1st or 2nd round untill the 3rd round is complete!;)

That way nobody knows who caught fish or where unless they are lucky enough or the anglers silly enough to show a caught fish with another boat close by...


Thats actually a good idea!!

Only problem is (and this is part of most comps..and definately in ABT) they let the boats off in session 2 and 3 in the order in which they are on the leaderboard (does that make sense??)...so if you are ranked 1 then you go first...so its not hard to work out who is catching fish and where.....hence I see plenty of outboards from behind at the start;D

I guess another thing is, and this is a good thing (however sometimes exploited) is that everyone shares info and tells others how they caught fish. Its is really good to see. Who shares wins is the motto, and I know most blokes will share info readilly..on the flip side, most fishos have enough nouse to sus out their own spots (using info gained) and not bite the hand that fed them.

Cheers steve

[Awoonga]

It could Archer but increasingly the most popular comps, and not just with anglers but with the sponsors (and they pay the bills) are the more open and accountable ones. Who shares wins you told me once Trev!!! Yes Mike and as you know l do share. As l have said before thats whats life is about Sharing. if l think the underdog is not getting a fair go and l can help. Thats why this post is up trying to help the guys without those big boats What about this ? The start of session two and three for the first 30 mins a speed limit of whatever knots. Gee l can here the screams of protest..But it would make the waterway safer for other boat users Now those that dont know me l own a Skeeter and if it brings the field closer together so be it

[Apollo]

Damn good topic Trev and good on you for being a bouncer for Kyle and Pete's spot, but I would hate to think that all/other competitors need to rely on the good graces of another competitor or even use a non competitor to hold their spot.

Morals and etiquette are something that I believe strongly in and have been on the receiving end of those with poor or none many times. In a fly comp I was in last year, I got blowflied and cut into many times. The spot I caught fish in was dropped into by others before I could get there on the second day of the comp. I think I can see it from the competitor with a slow boat's point of view as I do 22knot flat out, but I wouldn't want to see it as a rule that competitors get to bag spots. What if I was planning to fish a spot in session one, but was beaten to it and someone did well there, I wouldn't want to be excluded from it for the rest of the comp nor would I expect to have rights to it. If my tactics wholly depended on me being a one trick or one spot wonder, then I don't think I am worthy of placing highly in a comp. I try to have a plan A, B and C in case others are fishing where I want or conditions change.

I do think that Trev's speed limit idea is worth some more consideration as it can be a simply solution.

Tough concept to find an answer to and I commend Matt for obviously doing a great job with the comp.

Steve

[bugman]

Yes Mike and as you know l do share. As l have said before thats whats life is about Sharing. if l think the underdog is not getting a fair go and l can help. Thats why this post is up trying to help the guys without those big boats What about this ? The start of session two and three for the first 30 mins a speed limit of whatever knots. Gee l can here the screams of protest..But it would make the waterway safer for other boat users Now those that dont know me l own a Skeeter and if it brings the field closer together so be it

Trev...

Ever thought you are looking at this the wrong way... maybe it's the apparatus not the species that needs to be regulated:P

Maybe Skeeters and boats of it's ilk can't be entered in comps and fishers must run something under 60hp - or better still electric only;D

That would be funny to see with a shotgun start as all the boat race off to the sound of slight humming noise.....:o

Brett

[Apollo]

Brett

I have seen a few of the AFCs on TV that are obviously held/started in an area that has a speed limit. You are right, it looks funny when the hooter sounds and the competitors all 'blast' off at 6knots.:o

That said, I don't think those with quicker boats should be banned. If someone wants to own a skeeter, nitro, ranger or the likes, then good on them and they should not be banished for their choice, however a reasonable speed of say 20knots for the first 30mins has merit.

The Taylors are prime examples that a fast boat doesn't guarantee you a win.

Steve

[Steve B]

;D
Trev...

Ever thought you are looking at this the wrong way... maybe it's the apparatus not the species that needs to be regulated:P

Maybe Skeeters and boats of it's ilk can't be entered in comps and fishers must run something under 60hp - or better still electric only;D

That would be funny to see with a shotgun start as all the boat race off to the sound of slight humming noise.....:o

Brett

Brett, it is good for a laugh I tell you. Especially at electric comps...the hooter sounds then it's bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,

I made a cup of coffee last year while traveling to a spot;D

You see blokes whipping the side of a boat like makaybe diva down the home straight at Flemington trying to get extra pace and overtake!!;D ;D

Actually, some of the serious electric boats have more 'boat envy' than the big bass boats....some have 3 and 4 electric motors hanging off a boat that looks more like an upside down car bonnet!!....arms going everywhere trying to coordinate and steer.;D ;D

back to the topic, I think leave the rule as it is, 'word up' the offenders (Which I hear Matt did...good job) and dont spoil it for the majority that do the right thing.
As Steve said, part of comp fishing is the opposition, you have to deal with that as well as trying to catch fish...more than 1 plan is required...thats why its a comp..and thats why some succeed and others dont....like me;)

Cheers Steve

Oh yeah, Brett, PM me your address, I will send you that head unit....you can have it if it suits your setup. I am installing my SI sounder tommorrow....yippie!!

[jimbamb]

my 2 bobs worth.
i.m a casual fisher who pokes about doin my own thing..what do you blokes do if i happen to drop in on a spot you have chosen?and am fishing there when you arrive..
Am i supposed to pack up and leave because a big skeeter or the likes roars up and proceeds to claim the area????
Sometimes i get the feeling competitors in comps think they own the dam.
Who cares if they have paid fees to enter.I.ve got a sip and have just as much right to fish whereever as well.
i am not advocating being a blowie but compeditors do not have a god given right to take over a dam and campgrounds when they have a comp..there are 2 sides to this story.
I try and not go fishing when a comp is on..even tho i should be able to go whenever i want but we feel intimidated by the attitude of SOME competitors.on the water at boatramps and in campgrounds,

Just stating my feelings

open to discussion
jim

[Bad_Bazza]

Go Matt,
Take it past "Code of Conduct" to "Rules".
From past experiences in other events "Code of Conduct" has been never been enough.
Some people just do not understand the principle of it.

Fastest boat wins the spot every time.
The problem will be to design a rule that covers the situation.

Great effort Awoonga I sure it would have been very much appreciated by the other boat

Regards
Bad_Bazza

[Awoonga]

my 2 bobs worth.
i.m a casual fisher who pokes about doin my own thing..what do you blokes do if i happen to drop in on a spot you have chosen?and am fishing there when you arrive..
Am i supposed to pack up and leave because a big skeeter or the likes roars up and proceeds to claim the area????
Sometimes i get the feeling competitors in comps think they own the dam.
Who cares if they have paid fees to enter.I.ve got a sip and have just as much right to fish whereever as well.
i am not advocating being a blowie but compeditors do not have a god given right to take over a dam and campgrounds when they have a comp..there are 2 sides to this story.
I try and not go fishing when a comp is on..even tho i should be able to go whenever i want but we feel intimidated by the attitude of SOME competitors.on the water at boatramps and in campgrounds,

Just stating my feelings

open to discussion
jim
Jim
if its you on my spot you better up and leave ;D and its not open for discussion . When you coming up this way l have a spot for you to try

[jimbamb]

Trev,
Ok when i see the skeeter ill be off like a scalded cat..

Hee Hee !!!!!

Wont be up for a while.Going out to desert(Canning SR) and gunbarell 4for 6 months or so Will catch up when I get back..


Just thought you needed a rev up before i left...

Jim

[Toddy_again]

I am probably going to get smashed for this but I dont think what you did is very sporting at all.In a two person teams event where the two people fish out of one boat it basicly brings a third party into the equation.
I cant see how thats fair in any way.Whats to stop a forth and fifth party dipping in as well?Also what is to stop these other parties searching out fish in the middle of a session for the competition angler?
It creates a lot of grey areas.
Just my opinion.


Toddy

[Awoonga]

I am probably going to get smashed for this but I dont think what you did is very sporting at all.In a two person teams event where the two people fish out of one boat it basicly brings a third party into the equation.
I cant see how thats fair in any way.Whats to stop a forth and fifth party dipping in as well?Also what is to stop these other parties searching out fish in the middle of a session for the competition angler?
It creates a lot of grey areas.
Just my opinion.


Toddy Toddy consider yourself smashed. How dare you have a different opinion to ours :wut:.But just so you know l was in the Comp as well and l was the one that was disadvantaged .By the time slow old Pete came along there was none of the good spots left..No wonder we only caught three fish

[Toddy_again]

Toddy consider yourself smashed. How dare you have a different opinion to ours :wut:.But just so you know l was in the Comp as well and l was the one that was disadvantaged .By the time slow old Pete came along there was none of the good spots left..No wonder we only caught three fish

Its pretty much the same thing though regardless as to whether you were in the comp or not.
Its still the involves third party intervention.
Once again my opinion.Not trying to stir the pot just bringing another opinion to the table.

Toddy

[Awoonga]

Toddy, No problems from my end mate .Opinions from both sides of the fence are welcome.Thats what l put the post up for.

[bugman]

So Trev...

You sellin' the Skeeta ..... or going to start charging favour rates in comps. How much per hour;D

[jayvee]

the 20knot speed limit for 30mins sounds like a top answer to this problem IMO.
theres noway you can rely on etiquette from fellow comp fishers! sure most will steer clear of the spot as they know its not correct etiquette to move in on it, but in todays day and age with nothing to stop them there will always be 1 person/team out looking after no.1 (ie: themselves). but if the inconsiderate fisho cant get there any faster than the next then there shouldnt be a problem right??...!!

JAYVEE

[Awoonga]

So Trev...

You sellin' the Skeeta ..... or going to start charging favour rates in comps. How much per hour;DThats enough out of you smarty. Just remember who put you onto your first Barra

[bugman]

Thats enough out of you smarty. Just remember who put you onto your first Barra

Actually Trev it was 1 through to 6 - not something easily forgotten:thumbsup:

[leelee]

Doubt you can enforce a 20knot limit either.

How will this be regulated? On water speed cameras? Not all boats have GPS so those that don't can't be expected to guess.

Have seen this happen in comps for 4 and 6 knots areas, where someone just has to get their nose in front buying going a few knots quicker.

I feel the only answer is in morals, respect for your fellow competitors and etiquette. These attributes were instilled by the older generation like my grandparents, but for some reason it seems to have faded away from the current generations in all things not just only fishing related issues.

If I know 100% a fellow competitor has dropped in on me after I have done well in the previous session, then they better plan on getting cosy as I am would be fishing the same area as I was in the previous session. If they start trying to block you out then there are always other options you can take.

Cheers

Lee

[darylive]

my 2 bobs worth.
i.m a casual fisher who pokes about doin my own thing..what do you blokes do if i happen to drop in on a spot you have chosen?and am fishing there when you arrive..
Am i supposed to pack up and leave because a big skeeter or the likes roars up and proceeds to claim the area????
Sometimes i get the feeling competitors in comps think they own the dam.
Who cares if they have paid fees to enter.I.ve got a sip and have just as much right to fish whereever as well.
i am not advocating being a blowie but compeditors do not have a god given right to take over a dam and campgrounds when they have a comp..there are 2 sides to this story.
I try and not go fishing when a comp is on..even tho i should be able to go whenever i want but we feel intimidated by the attitude of SOME competitors.on the water at boatramps and in campgrounds,

Just stating my feelings

open to discussion
jim

Good on ya JimBob, my idea of fishing is recreation not rules and any hot dog in a rocket ship comp that buzzes me will spend the rest of the comp in a cloud of two stroke smoke and if they want to take it up on the bank I can accommodate that to.
:o

Sounds like a good comp Mat, Good on ya Trev, well done Pete and Kyle :D

If some arse is of a mind to bugger things up they will. Fortunately in our circle they are few and far between and are soon made uncomfortable.

Peace on you all. ;)

AND P155 THESE RABBITS OFF!

[tednted]

G'day Fellas
I'm gunna go against the mainstream here & say that I personally dont think what Trev done was right. Even though he personally had nothing to gain by holding a spot !!! He still was effectively holding a spot for someone else to help them out !!! So you have a 3rd party intervention!!
Even though his help wasn't asked for , none the less he did help .
I think that the easiest way out of this is to not have catches made public . So in doing this at the start of each session noone gets an advantage of starting first because they had the best figures from the previous session. Now if you want a staggered start , then draw your starting positions out of a hat & if ya lucky enough to draw no 1 then good luck to ya . At least noone will know if you had a hot session or not till the end of the comp. But it still does not guarantee that some one wont beat ya to your preferred spot !! It may just be some one elses preferred spot aswell !!!
cheers AL

[NAGG]

G'day Fellas
I'm gunna go against the mainstream here & say that I personally dont think what Trev done was right. Even though he personally had nothing to gain by holding a spot !!! He still was effectively holding a spot for someone else to help them out !!! So you have a 3rd party intervention!!
Even though his help wasn't asked for , none the less he did help .
I think that the easiest way out of this is to not have catches made public . So in doing this at the start of each session noone gets an advantage of starting first because they had the best figures from the previous session. Now if you want a staggered start , then draw your starting positions out of a hat & if ya lucky enough to draw no 1 then good luck to ya . At least noone will know if you had a hot session or not till the end of the comp. But it still does not guarantee that some one wont beat ya to your preferred spot !! It may just be some one elses preferred spot aswell !!!
cheers AL

I see what Trev did as noble ..... but - I also think it in someways goes against the spirit of a comp.......... why did he do it - to make sure it wasn't a case of the fastest boat wins!
Having a fast (expensive) boat does in many ways make it unfair...... as those without the means can be behind the 8 ball - I can only imagine what it would be like for the Taylors ...... but it also probably explains why they spend so much time prefishing ( find as many locations as possible)
Its one of those things that is painted in shades of grey - Like having a non competitor sit on a location. .....

chris

[baggersace]

I am the clown who left Matt to run the comp by himself :-[ ( I can't say sorry enough) , this is something that Matt and I have spoken about for some time and the challenge here is to run a comp that is structured so we encourage the beginner to this arena and still support the tried and true barra fisho.

Ettiquite is the primary influence on this matter, however as rightly said the introduction of money starts to fade peoples adherence to the ettiquite they previously supported. This ( make it a rule ) will be hard to enforce and we will be working on formulating a plan to support those who do, work hard, crack a pattern and do well, without closing an area of lake just because "they found it first". We will asking those who do fish in comps to assist in spreading the word as to what is considered good ettiquite, please do so in well mannered way:D

As you all know Matt with the help of others has produced brouchures about the ettiquite in Barra fishing so it is an important issue from our point of view.

In essence you are the masters of the decision as we will listen to what you the entrant considers important, without you the comp doesn't exist. Please bear in mind we will standby the rules that support the majority, so some ( and only some) may not be overly supportive of 100% of the rules but we do intend to produce a 90% solution for all.

Finally producing a friendly competition with an strong "everyone learns" culture I feel will greatly enhance the proactive approach to ettiquite, Pete's explaination of what happened goes well in stimulating others to understand how to manage the situation, the other team requested to fish near him. Pete had the choice of either " mate I would appreciate a bit more water" or "your ok to fish there" with the end result of both parties happy, manners do count.;)

My thoughts

Ian


p.s. Trev well done, it's not the first time you've done that sort of thing and I hope this will guide prospective competitors to be more aware of the protocols.

[Tropicaltrout]

Well Trev IMHO, by the waay I like to conduct myself on a dam I would not have a problem if someone I knew came over if I was getting some action comp or no comp. I think what you done was very good and it is straight and simple Pete was onto fish you knew it, so instead of fishing it you let him get the resault for what was his decision to fish there, no one else fished in there until word got out so if they would take anything in they would then try there best to mimic another simular spot.

Trev I think it was fantastic what you did, I can understand many of the thoughts through the thread.

If you have pre fish you entre 5 GPS marks come comp day they are ya marks you must fish ? would that work???

Whatever the case I am coming next year!

Cheers Nath

[gav73]

It's a comp the bigger they get the more drama's will pop up, its like any sport soon as you get close to the top get ready for the shit fight.I think the more people winge the more people will steer away from comps.But I have seen people do some stupid things for a $5 trophy.
Cheers Gav

[udlman]

For example –

I know spot X fishes well in afternoon but for first session I fish spot Y that is within site of spot X. I just fish there to keep an eye on it. An angler turns up and catches fish. Great I say. That means they will be there for the arvo session and I can’t wait for that to happen.

Now when everyone see’s me fishing there for the arvo session they will naturally assume that I was rude and have no manners when I get there first in the arvo because everyone will think I followed them there or decided to drop in on their honey hole, but actually the truth is I already knew about that spot and planned to fish it, but how do I prove that?.



You also have to consider that the boat fishing in your spot X may have found that spot themselves in a prefish and planed on fishing it as well. Usually by the 2nd day all the good spots have been fished at least once, that is where the good teams have dozens of spots, or have worked out the pattern that was working and is able to go and apply it to other spots that may not have been fished.

[warrior]

congrats trev in a way for what you did but it definatly must have disabled you for a while ,you are a good man. in the comp scene last year and early this year i saw this blowfly scene way too often people get so serious for dollars,accolades,trophies and so forth that they forget the real reason they are there ,to enjoy other like minded peoples company.i havnt fished a comp this year for this reason,. at the end of each session it is great to hear about what has happened for that session,but maybe team names dont get mentioned and the draw start out of a hat works very well .the cream will rise to the top no matter where they start from , again congrats matt on your success.

[2manylures]

I have to agree with tednted & Nagg and by no means am I trying to disrespect a noble gesture

The way I see it is these comps are set up for 1 boat with 2 anglers being the team. Any 3rd party intervention {related to “fishing”} could be deemed as an unfair advantage on other teams & could also be called cheating against the recipient of the help.

I haven’t fished comps of any form for 15 years and would never have asked for OR accepted any help from a 3rd party. It just wouldn’t sit right with me!

To make it fair all round, perhaps ban the pre-fish and after the 1st session speed limit subsequent session starts as others have mentioned

[Mike Delisser]

Actually Trev it was 1 through to 6 - not something easily forgotten:thumbsup:

The old bastard did that for me too (1 to 6) so I guess he has some redeeming features
:grin:

[warrior]

hey mike i think he has a little tally board at home with all his number ones on it :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: pb for me with him

[matt fraser]

I've gotta say I'm a bit peeved! I've been away for three days, I get back, and this is back at the top of the forum. I thought it was quietly slipping away.

Its ok that this has come up, it has bought up an issue - but one which has been in ABT style comps since the first bloke bought a 75hp so he could outrun the 25s getting around at the time. Why do you think tournament anglers keep buying bigger, faster boats! To get there first. Why do you think the boating industry love ABT! Sorry I digress!

As I've already written, this, and a few other issues will be addressed in the Barra Trophy Tournaments as we fine tune the details.

What I'm peeved about is that many people who didn't go to the comps, read this and think that there was a big bunfight at the comp. And this includes two sponsors who read this forum. So when I talk to them last week, the first thing they say is "I heard about the "bunfight"!

Ian and I worked damn hard in getting sponsors onboard, and running the comp, with aim of growing the sport by bring anglers together to share knowledge and have a good time. I'm pretty sure almost every angler enjoyed and learnt - even if they didn't catch fish. Even the anglers who weren't there, have had the opportunity to learn from the reports published here and elsewhere - on the successful lures, techniques and locations. These reports have also generated some positive interest in Mondy, and many anglers are now keen to get up there and have a go again. After the last month or two of doom and gloom.

But this thread hasn't done us any favours in ensuring the future success of Barra Trophy events. Sponsors wan't good publicity not bad. Fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion, Trev asked for it - thanks Trev, you're not in my good books right now. Its ok, I'm over it already.

The direct issue has been sorted, and the rules for Barra Trophy Comps will be ammended, to reduce the chances of teams being deliberately disadvantaged by other teams.

I would like to politely ask everyone to let this slide. If you've got anything further to say on this good or bad - pm me. If you want to banter on, take it up on another thread.

cheers

Matt

[jimbamb]

Matt,
What happened to free speech and open discussion?????

Reeks of Competion organisers doin what ever and stuff everyone else and their opinions
Jim

[jimbamb]

Interesting!!! No comments??? Don't the sponsers like bad press????
Jim

[Peter4]

Jim, I don't believe you posted anything that merits a response.

Aren't you just dangling a bait and looking for a bite?:wink:

[Apollo]

No Jim, just an interesting concept called respect - for Matt for doing a great job.

Steve

[aussiebasser]

How will this issue be covered in the rules?

[matt fraser]

Dale,

Give me until the end of May.... we will be doing a press release for the Awoonga Barra Trophy on this site, and a few others. Any format or rule changes will be officially posted on australianbarra.com.au at this time.

You are all welcome to discuss these changes when they are released. Rules are needed for any competition. In my opinion they need to be as black and white as possible. Any grey areas can be exploited to benefit those that push the boundaries. Rules also need to be enforced and penalties applied in a consistant manner.

Also, if you aren't fully familiar with everything in the rules, it could come back to bite you.

In the friendly spirit of the Barra Trophy events, I'm pretty sure we won't have to open the rule book too often. Because anglers will be given clear boundaries, so they will know if they are going to overstep them.

Jim, I apologise for my previous attempt to prevent free speech and open discusssion. It was wrong of me to do so. I appreciate your efforts to point that out to me.

I seriously appreciate the thanks, support and respect from ausfishers! There are a heap of top people on here.

Good fishing,

Cheers,

Matt

[jimbamb]

Matt,
apology accepted. Great thing about this forum/Country,,Anyone can have an opinion..
I.ve had my say..end of subject so far as I am concerned..( Even tho I don't fish comps I will be interested to hear if the rules relating to this are changed/modified/or left as is)
Jim
Steve,
I did not question matts ability or integrity...I simply pointed something out..
Jim