Hogs Breath Cafe 18 hr steak

[seastorm]

Does anyone know the cooking process of Hogs Breath Cafe 18 hour prime rib steak?

[flybloke]

I can tell you the basic method for cooking low and slow,
18 Hours is a bit too long for any cut of meat.
Generally 12-16 hours is all that is needed to break down the collagen and render the fat from your rib steak.
The best cuts for low and slow are marbled cuts such as Rib eye, Pork Neck(Scotch), Brisket, Pork belly(Spare), Pork ribs, Beef chuck roast, etc.
The thicker the cut the better it will render and start falling off the bone.
You cannot slow cook a 2cm rib eye;), It needs to be 2-3 inches thick.
Better still, a hole 2-4 kg joint.

Most BBQ,s will not cook low enough unless you have a Webber WSM, Offset smoker, or are really crafty with a Webber kettle.

You can however do it in a normal electric Oven,
The key is to first rub the meat with a dry rub then cook at a temp of 100C-120C (110C is perfect). Never Lift the lid to inspect for the first 4 hours.
If you use a Temp gage you don't have to open doors or lift lids for the entire cook.
You are cooking beyond "Doneness" For beef or pork you need to slowly get the internal temp up to 90-92 Deg C,
The meat may "Stall" and take many hours to get there but increasing the heat above 120 Deg C will only end in failure.

If you do it in a BBQ such as the webber smoky mountain, It all happens naturally, I'm cooking a 6 hr Pork Louisiana smoked baby back ribs right now along with home made southern style sauce on the stove.

There is so much involved and are happy to answer Q,s
Its not hard to do fall apart, REAL BBQ meat, You just need the right equipment and advice.

[thatsakeeper]

ive often wondered this myself so thanks for the original post and the reply Fly.
I would be using an ordinary oven to try this but what is a "dry rub". and is there any other things i could add before the cooking process begins for an infused flavour or do you just slow cook the meat and have a bottle of sauce at the ready. does it need to be covered in the oven or have a water source to keep the oven moist? what else is essential to pulling this one off

[PinHead]

18 hours?? To cook a steak? Glad I have never been there cos I sure as hell am not going to wait 18 hours for them to cook my meal.
4 minutes on the barbie..steak cremated.

[flybloke]

The best way to learn this without taking into account the way the seppos do real Q,
In an oven:
Lamb:)
You will need a big crock pot with lid.
On the stove top, Heat up some oil and quikly surface sear the pre garlic and rosemary stuffed leg. Set aside.
You are only colouring the leg at this stage.
Take the pot off the heat (You oven will be preheated to 110 Deg C)
Into the pot pour 250 ml chicken or veal stock, 250ml white wine, and what ever lambi herbs you like.
Place leg back into stock then into the oven.
Go away and leave it alone for seven hours.
Come home, Open it up and scream "Bloody haleua"
You dont "slice this" You pull it:P
Edit, Forgot to mention, Before sear colouring the leg, heavily salt it. Slow cooking also renders salt and it needs to be added. (Hence the stock)
Another way to overcome this is to brine the leg overnight in a solution of 1TBP salt per litre of water. The leg must be fully covered with brine so that osmosis can happen, Throw a few cloves of garlic and rosmary in there, Osmosis will get the flavour RIGHT through the meat.
Believe me, Do this you will never look back.

[seastorm]

Looks like its off to the Super Butcher to get me some thick rib eye

[sleepygreg]

Dont even bother bringing up 'hogs breath' with me. I have eaten ther on a number of occassions....as part of a groups...and have yet to have a meal that I am happy with. As far as im concerned they are over rated and have absolute crap food. I will never chose to eat there. Might reluctantly eat there if part of a group........but never will it be my choice.

Greg

[trueblue]

Dont even bother bringing up 'hogs breath' with me. I have eaten ther on a number of occassions....as part of a groups...and have yet to have a meal that I am happy with. As far as im concerned they are over rated and have absolute crap food. I will never chose to eat there. Might reluctantly eat there if part of a group........but never will it be my choice.

Greg

Agreed - crap service, and crap food.

Especially the service of drinks. Just about impossible to get a second round of drinks ordered. When stuck there with others in a group, I always order myself a jug of beer - because it will be the last you will see of the waitress till the meals are brought out, and then if you order another drink at that time it won't come out till kids are eating deserts......

and their steaks are nothing to rave about.

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi all
For what purpose do they cook an 18 hour steak and who in their right minds has 18 hours to spend cooking a steak.
I'm with Pinhead-- 4 minutes on the barbie if you like it well done. I prefer rare.

I cannot see why you would want to cook a leg of lamb for seven hours either.
If you are going to do as said above wit stock etc all you are doing is a stewed leg of lamb-- aren't you. May as well drop it in the crock pot and leave it going all day.

Ronnie

[Tailortaker]

Hogs breath is not for either, Iike my steak still bleeding. the best they can do is medium as its already cooked so much. My favouite steak is a Nolans Private Selection OP Rib ( rib fillet on the bone), I cut it about 2inch thick, sear on BBQ than close the hood for a little while. ;)
Cheers TT

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hey Grant

Is that the advantage of being a butcher???
MMMMMMMMMM rib fillet

How are you?

Ronnie

[Tailortaker]

Hey Grant

Is that the advantage of being a butcher???
MMMMMMMMMM rib fillet

How are you?

Ronnie
Yer Ronnie it's handy being able to pick out what you want and slicing it to suit. we are all good, how about you guys ?

[trueblue]

my steaks are cooked on the BBQ for 2 mins a side, turned once, then taken off the heat and wrapped in foil on a plate for 5 minutes to rest. Perfect medium rare.

resting the steak makes all the difference.

slow cooking is only for making crap cheap meat cuts palletable

[manchild]

Try one of these :http://www.barbequesandmore.com.au/gallery_item.php?number=120
It works for us.
George

[Tangles]

or you could get the deathstar of all weber kettles and get the Ranch Kettle;D awesome

[flybloke]

You are all talking TWO different types of cooking, Grilling (I like rare for the good stuff). And then there is slow cooking of which I use a smoker.
Mrs Ronnie, You are half right about it being almost a stew. It was meant to be an intro learning curve as suggested.
It holds together and when done, You pull the meat apart. There are no dry bits. The whole thing tastes like the shank. Once a cook learns to do this well, Then they can try more challenging meats and progress to new ways and equipment of producing such.
I don't mind you rubbishing company's like hogs breath, But I was taken aback by your comments on my 7 hr lamb suggestion. Something you have never done???
It is a standard in the restaurant industry::)
There is a whole new world out there that is different to the 60's style roast leg of lamb.
I am a member of the Australian BBQ Association. And we endeavour to teach one by one, The true way to get restaurant quality at home.
One snag burner at a time, We convert them ;D

Its all good

[PinHead]

You are all talking TWO different types of cooking, Grilling (I like rare for the good stuff). And then there is slow cooking of which I use a smoker.
Mrs Ronnie, You are half right about it being almost a stew. It was meant to be an intro learning curve as suggested.
It holds together and when done, You pull the meat apart. There are no dry bits. The whole thing tastes like the shank. Once a cook learns to do this well, Then they can try more challenging meats and progress to new ways and equipment of producing such.
I don't mind you rubbishing company's like hogs breath, But I was taken aback by your comments on my 7 hr lamb suggestion. Something you have never done???
It is a standard in the restaurant industry::)
There is a whole new world out there that is different to the 60's style roast leg of lamb.
I am a member of the Australian BBQ Association. And we endeavour to teach one by one, The true way to get restaurant quality at home.
One snag burner at a time, We convert them ;D

Its all good

LOL @ snag burner...I cremate..I do not burn.. I am a non event as a cook.

Now as for the slow cooked tucker..anything resembling a stew I avoid like the plague..i grew up eating crap like stewing chops..yuck...turned me off anything like that for life.

[flybloke]

Cant please everybody::)
I feel sorry for you, what doo you eat?

[seastorm]

Sorry to all the people out there that have not tried a slow cooked steak, when you get a good one you could cut it with a spoon, and then the steak just melts in your mouth, tastes nothing like a stew. The other place that I have had a good steak like this is the surf club at Mooloolaba. I'm with you Flyboke there is a whole new world out there for your taste buds to enjoy

[Tailortaker]

I dont like slow cooked meat because you Shouldnt have to slow cook good meat. Why waste top dollar on good meat to cook it to death ? I like steak red and lamb pink so it's useless to me. As for hogs Breath, Save your money and go buy a real steak and cook it right, not all night.

[trueblue]

I have done heaps of slow cooked meats - yes there is an occasion for that, but I don't agree with using premium steaks for the purpose. Why use a top class premium steak for slow cooking and rendering?

I stick to slow cooking cheap cuts of meat, which can be made to be extraordinary through slow cooking.

cheers

[Tangles]

reckon we should up the ante, try a 30 hour chilli cook, i did once...never again...didnt leave the WC for a week?...toilet rolls in the freezer where in vain.

[flybloke]

I have done heaps of slow cooked meats - yes there is an occasion for that, but I don't agree with using premium steaks for the purpose. Why use a top class premium steak for slow cooking and rendering?

I stick to slow cooking cheap cuts of meat, which can be made to be extraordinary through slow cooking.

cheers

Oh too true, True Blue;D
I would not normally render a rib steak(But it does fill the criteria). But I will smoke up the off cut rib on the bone.
$5.99 a kg, what a beaut.
I like a whole chuck roast($7.99 kg, cooked for,,,,,, well until it renders with QLD bush nut smoke wood.
or a whole pork neck (Butt) at about 12.99 kg is the king of my faves.
Ribs are dear and a treat. But pork belly (whole spare) is also cheap when cooked as a whole cut for hours until that magic 195F

Just remember everyone, This isn't a contest. Someone asked and I answered about that rib cut. Not how much it will cost
You cannot Knowingly say its crap if you have never done it or had it cooked for you. Done right its bloody divine.:o

[FNQCairns]

My first hogs breath slow cooked steak was one of the best I had ever eaten, the second time I had one it was ordinary which was a shame and haven't been back, I might give a big chunk of budget meat a try soon.

cheers fnq

[deepfried]

I agree with fly. Slow cooked lamb, pork etc etc is sooo good. I also like a good medium rare steak as well. Both great ways to have a feed. I am not too keen on slow cooked steak ala Hogs Breath though. A lump of meat should pull apart and a steak should still bleed a little. Thems the rules in my kitchen although not all my slow cooked attempts have been a success.

[GBC]

Pinhead, you sound a bit like my wife - she grew up in a house with food cooked a particular way, and had formed opinions about various forms of foods etc etc.
I grew up in my parent's restaraunt and didn't have a choice about learning to cook.
Cooking (chefing) is just a trade like any other - approach cooking like that - there are some very basic rules and guidelines and the rest falls into place.
I reckon any 'tradesman' could turn your 'pyrolisation practices' around in a weekend or two - just have to keep an open mind and forget what you've been taught. A book like 'practical professional cookery' would help. It's a trade based book that apprentice chefs use - like the little red roofing book that chippies use. No bullshit, no magic just simple steps to a specific outcome.

As for Hog's breath - YUK!! I switched from sika to another building product years ago because the rep only had a Hog's breath card.

[Noelm]

I am in a bit of a dilemma at my place, my wife likes her steak cooked untill it is not recognisable as meat, and can only be cut with an axe (or maybe a small angle grinder) I like mine pinkish to red in the middle, my son only has light pink, my son inlaw is strictly a well done, my daughter is a cremated but not black, so I have to cook all sorts of meat at different times, time putting them on the BBQ to perfection, so they are all ready at the same time, jesus what a nightmare that is, and Hogsbreath is not all that flash either I reckon, and quite expensive for what you get!

[Mrs Ronnie H]

You are all talking TWO different types of cooking, Grilling (I like rare for the good stuff). And then there is slow cooking of which I use a smoker.
Mrs Ronnie, You are half right about it being almost a stew. It was meant to be an intro learning curve as suggested.
It holds together and when done, You pull the meat apart. There are no dry bits. The whole thing tastes like the shank. Once a cook learns to do this well, Then they can try more challenging meats and progress to new ways and equipment of producing such.
I don't mind you rubbishing company's like hogs breath, But I was taken aback by your comments on my 7 hr lamb suggestion. Something you have never done???
It is a standard in the restaurant industry::)
There is a whole new world out there that is different to the 60's style roast leg of lamb.
I am a member of the Australian BBQ Association. And we endeavour to teach one by one, The true way to get restaurant quality at home.
One snag burner at a time, We convert them ;D

Its all good

My comments were not meant to offend but obviously they have. :'(
Each to their own style of cooking i suppose.
As for my 1960's style of cooking-- well my nan first taught me to cook on a wood stove, in a wood oven and call me traditional but i wouldn't have it any other way. I can cook my lamb for alot less time and it doesn't need to be cut nor is it dry. Same for my roast beef.

Don't get me wrong learning new ways of cooking is great ;D and i am open to trying anything-- will endevour to do a slow cooked lamb and compare it with my traditional cooking method.
Do you use a camp oven at all-- That is pretty awesome for lamb.


Grant--- Glad to hear you are all well. Will PM you and we will all have to catch up.

Ronnie

[PinHead]

I have been spoilt..mum (she was a great cook but due to financial constraints some of the cuts of meats were a bit average) did all the cooking when I was growing up hence I never went near a stove or oven ...then wife has done all the cooking since..mainly 'cos I cannot cook a thing. Why can't you buy lamb's brains anymore ????

[sleepygreg]

You can buy lambs brains Pinhead. A simple request to your local butcher will produce the results. (they are not usually displayed in the counter). Perhaps TT can confirm this. The only places that seem to have various offal on display seem to be the major supermarkets...and there is no way I would buy it off them. Your 'local bloke' will have it fresh in the cold room, or to order next day.

(and order some lambs fry while your at it)

Greg

[iqarus]

i work at a hogsbreath, and unfortunately agree with most of you. the franchise at a whole has recently begun working very hard to overcome the few problems it has.

hopefully over the next few year/s it gains back its respect it once had.


there are so many variables in the service, that unfortunately strong opinions are formed completely not based on the product received. this is but the main problem with any hospitality venue.

i hope the people that have posted give HBC a second chance, perhaps at a different venue (out of 75 full service restaurants there are the good and the bad.)

[Noelm]

with a "chain" like Hogs Breath, the service and food should not vary from place to place, that's why people go to them, like (say) Maccas is the same in Brisbane, Wollongong or Broken Hill, like it or not, you will get the same from any of them, Hogs Breath SHOULD be the same, and I have found it to be the case (mostly) even though I am not a fan, I have been to quite a few with a group and the service and food is almost the same at them all (not real good)

[trueblue]

i work at a hogsbreath, and unfortunately agree with most of you. the franchise at a whole has recently begun working very hard to overcome the few problems it has.

hopefully over the next few year/s it gains back its respect it once had.


there are so many variables in the service, that unfortunately strong opinions are formed completely not based on the product received. this is but the main problem with any hospitality venue.

i hope the people that have posted give HBC a second chance, perhaps at a different venue (out of 75 full service restaurants there are the good and the bad.)

here is a tip for you -

get them to focus on service of drinks - they will make more money anyway

a bloke has trouble enjoying even the best of steaks when thirsty and frustrated that he can't get a drink...................

[Noelm]

I fully agree with the drinks thing, except for the Hogs Breath at Port Stephens (in NSW) where they almost forced a drink on you every 2 seconds,, the others are almost a no drinks zone, unless you go to the bar and get your own! they should offer drinks, it is a good money earner.

[flybloke]

Here are a few slow cooked dishes I've done in the last few months for the non believers.
http://usera.ImageCave.com/smokyMick/P8150003%20(Medium).JPG
Beef rib on the bone (Off cuts) and a Pork hock. cooked 6Hrs
http://usera.ImageCave.com/smokyMick/P9120007%20(Medium).JPG
Whole pork spare rib (Bottom section of rib cage)Cooked 12hrs
http://usera.ImageCave.com/smokyMick/PA100086%20(Medium).JPG
3.5 kg rolled chuck roast, cooked 16 hrs
http://usera.ImageCave.com/smokyMick/P7220019%20(Small).JPG
2.o kg Pork Butt (Neck or scotch) cooked 16 hrs.
Yum , Im making myself hungry
Plane ole kettle roast beef tonight.

[ozscott]

Mate - that looks fantastic. Thanks for posting up your slow cooking tips. I reckon the best meat second to none is beef (ox) cheek braised up in a casserole dish on the stove top and then into the oven for 4 hours, basting with the jus that you make up after you have braised them all (just add cloves, bay leaves and other stuff with wine to the braising pain to make the juice) ....in the last 15 mins when reduce the juice to half and make a glaze and glaze them a couple of times then pull out, re-glaze with some extra glaze on the side and serve (with whatever you like - good mash is a good way to go) and it is the best thing to eat with a fork (forget the knife) that you can get!!!!

I love a good T-Bone or rump bbq's to medium rare (I like good whole rump like the high end Teys stuff and cut my own thick steaks and roasts) but without doubt slow cooking is an amazing way to do things.

Fly fella - I would love to hear some of your recipes for the sauces and glazes!

Cheers

[Tailortaker]

Hey Flybloke, what happened to your other thread ? the one about your slow cooks, Alot of expectation and an equal amount of disappointment from what I saw::) . Oh well ,as long as you enjoy your overcooked charcoaled meat thats all that counts;)
Cheers TT;D

[flybloke]

Your a nasty man TT,:P What happened is I picked up a few more BBQ's that sent me into a spiral of learning, Then got involved in a Cooking group that sent me even further into a learning curve.
All that stuff I said Id cook, I did. But was never happy with it or too lazy to put up for a bunch of picky fishermen to crawl all over it;D
I'm not going anywhere soon and I'm developing in leaps and bounds:D
Basicly , I will only post what my peers and I know to work for sure.
Where as my previous post's were too complicated to get the result that I wished others could copy off me on a standard gas BBQ.
Slow cooking on a gasser is a PITA, Can be done but very difficult to explain as there are so many different types of gassers.

[Tailortaker]

So in all honesty if one was to slow cook pork, what would be the best BBQ to use?

[flybloke]

What a fantastic question.
I will not add expensive BBQ's such as off set smokers, or Pellet fed electric cookers, Hell you can get them on a trailer and 17 feet long.
THE best cooker IMO for the average mug like me and indeed, the most cost affective Q that will go the whole 18 hour cook is a Webber Smokey Mountain
Bullet cooker.
Not popular In Oz, But it should be.
You can be crafty with a Kettle but you need to be standing over it all day making sure it does not got too hot.
The WSM is easy and cooks food that makes my friends and family's jaws drop and
drool;D
This is because it has a water pan as a heat sink, Will keep 225F all night.
You also have a choice of adding smoke or not, Cooking hotter without heat sink. Cooking Hibachi, And the best thing is you can cook six, 3-4 kg pork necks that will feed an army.
Lets say, 6 x 3 kg Pork necks.
18 kg all up fits on two racks .
Loss of fat and moisture will take that down to 15 Kg cooked.
At 250G per person, that is catering for 60.
All from a $700 cooker.
Otherwise a spit well done can come up with the goods as the cheapest option as you can improvise.

[the gecko]

great info flybloke, Ive never eaten slow cooked meat, but Im into trying it. Im not gonna stand over my weber one touch kettle all day, and Im not gonna buy a special bbq, so Im using an electric oven with a temp gauge.

What cuts of meat should a begginer start with?

A butcher once told me that theres no bad cuts of meat, only people using wrong cooking processes for wrong cuts.........

ANdrew

[seastorm]

Hi Flybloke
Can you tell us what DRY RUB is?
The other question is if I am cooking in the oven do I pre heat oven to 110 then place the meat on a tray and then leave it. I will be trying three pieces of rib fillet ( we got it free with another purchase from super butcher) I have cut it to 3 inch steaks. When do I know it is ready, and when I take it out of the oven do you do what hogs breath do and flame grill it for a few seconds?

[flybloke]

A rub is a mixture of salts, Sugars and spices, All Dry.
The low smoke/heat caramelises them and if the meat is dusted in a rub and left wraped over night in cling wrap it will also brine the meat.
If you are cooking in an oven at 110deg, The meat will not brown.
You will need to colour the piece first by braising or easier to just use a gas blow torch as it gets the colour in all the nooks and cranys.
I would have kept The rib fillet whole and sliced at serving.
As an oven will tend to dry the meat, I would place it into a lidded casserole dish
or place it on a roasting rack sitting in a roasting pan with water added.
A temp thermopen helps with slow cooking, Pull the beef when it hits 66 Deg internal.
Rule NO 1: Trust your temps and don't open the door to inspect. This will bugger things up.
A really good investment is the weber digi meat thermometers, Yes you can use them in an oven. You set it up, Go to the shed and start drinking beer and the remote will tell you when its ready.
I never used to use therms as I could generaly tell when things where cooked.
BUT, when slow cooking you realy must know what is going on.

The Q re what is best to start is Cheap marbled meat.
Lamb , Chuck, Brisket, Pork sholder, Pork neck.

Rule No 2: Never increase temp on your oven.
If you put it on too late, and want to serv up soon and decide to crank the oven up to 120-140 to get the internal temp(beef) to 66d, You will fail.
Meat temp can rage to say 50 d, Then stall, seemingly not getting to the 66-83d target.
This is when the coligen is breaking down and the fat is rendering from the meat. leave it alone, It will be done when its done.
You can allways keep it warm for hours if it hits target temp a little early.

[flybloke]

For OZSCOT,
Im always changing what I do for sauce (BBQ) but generally always come back to this in a round about way.

Seppo Sauce

In a large saucpan, Add;

Base

1 Cup Tomato sauce
1 140g leggo tomato paste
1 Cup apple cider vinegar
1 200-250g jar apple sauce
1 Cup any juice you have in the fridge (apple , Pineapple, Orange, Cranberry)
2-3 heaped Tbs Palm sugar
2-3 heaped Tbs Dark brown sugar
1 tsp salt ( You can leave this out and add in bits to cut the sweet down as you go)
2 -3 Tbs Worcestershire sauce
1 Tbs Tamarind paste

Start this up and get to a low simmer. Then add any combo or all of these spices:

Spice

6 star aniseed
12 cloves
1 tsp chilly powder (add more if you like it hotter)
1 tsp onion powder
1/4 tsp garlic powder(Only a very little or leave it out)
1/2 tsp Cinnamon powder
1 TBS smoke water (available from BBQ's Galore)

Method

Once you get things going on the low simmer, Its just a matter of bringing the consistancy of the liquid back down to a Sauce thickness that you like.
Taste it for sour/sweet/salt as you go and add whatever is needed to cut down the overwelming.
Note: This will be and is ment to be a vinager based sauce so expect that to be at the top of the dominant taste.
Dont stick you nose in the pot or taste too much as this will de-sensitize your nose and may knock you off your game.
Only taste Tiny little bits ;).
Once Done, Strain. Cool and bottle or use straight up!

Its all good;D

[Tangles]

Thanks for the recipie.

I got into all the complicated rubs and stuff, now i tend to keep it a lot more simple and add smoke.

Shame Ausralia doesnt get the new WSM at 57cm, so im looking at either the Big Green Egg or the Ranch. I have worn out the weber performer it seems

ALso Fly, here is a site you might like, has some good tips and not your usual bbq sites.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fredsmusicandbbq

[flybloke]

Is the Big green Egg bigger than an 18.5 inch WSM?



I did get myself a couple of drums to make a UDS , Its a work in progress::)

[Tangles]

Depends which model and what we can get in oz, the XL large is 24 inch. the large is 18 inch, i think thats all we can get in Oz

[flybloke]

I know some that have ordered the 22" WSM through amazon, The dollar is right.
You might like to investigate Treager wood pellet BBQ,s. Might suit you better than a ranch.
There is now a OZ distributor. Will try to find it for you.
There is also a boiler maker in Melbourne that makes a beaut off set wood smoker for a $1.1k

[pog mo hoin]

Hogs breath roll the rib fillet they get ( looks like it from a bullok that missed muster for a decade or two ) in "Black Jack" or Parisien Essence, it is a food colouring that is basically burnt sugar. They then wack them into their "Alto Sham" ovens at about 300 degress for about 10 min and then it holds the temp at a just barely legal temp. A hot box in a takeaway would be hotter. In my opinion and mine alone it is one of the most awful steakes you can get, don't get me started on the rest of the operation.

[iqarus]

Hogs breath roll the rib fillet they get ( looks like it from a bullok that missed muster for a decade or two ) in "Black Jack" or Parisien Essence, it is a food colouring that is basically burnt sugar. They then wack them into their "Alto Sham" ovens at about 300 degress for about 10 min and then it holds the temp at a just barely legal temp. A hot box in a takeaway would be hotter. In my opinion and mine alone it is one of the most awful steakes you can get, don't get me started on the rest of the operation.

tread carefully mate, sounds like you've worked in a store. hope you didnt sign an employee non-disclosure agreement. few people have been in hot water recently :-/

[Aunty Jack]

The best way to learn this without taking into account the way the seppos do real Q,
In an oven:
Lamb:)
You will need a big crock pot with lid.
On the stove top, Heat up some oil and quikly surface sear the pre garlic and rosemary stuffed leg. Set aside.
You are only colouring the leg at this stage.
Take the pot off the heat (You oven will be preheated to 110 Deg C)
Into the pot pour 250 ml chicken or veal stock, 250ml white wine, and what ever lambi herbs you like.
Place leg back into stock then into the oven.
Go away and leave it alone for seven hours.
Come home, Open it up and scream "Bloody haleua"
You dont "slice this" You pull it:P
Edit, Forgot to mention, Before sear colouring the leg, heavily salt it. Slow cooking also renders salt and it needs to be added. (Hence the stock)
Another way to overcome this is to brine the leg overnight in a solution of 1TBP salt per litre of water. The leg must be fully covered with brine so that osmosis can happen, Throw a few cloves of garlic and rosmary in there, Osmosis will get the flavour RIGHT through the meat.
Believe me, Do this you will never look back.




When you say crock pot, is that the same as a slow cooker?
Better known as a crock pot.
If so or not would the slow cooker do a good jod?????

[flybloke]

Swampman,
An electric purpose made "Slow Cooker" will doo the Job.
It just means you will have to sear/Brown the leg in another large pot of some sort. Then transfer it the the slow cooker machien.
I just use a Le cruset dutch oven type thing. It goes from stove top into the oven.
Just make sure the slow cooker is set at 100 deg C and let it cook all day or over night.

[flybloke]

Hogs breath roll the rib fillet they get ( looks like it from a bullok that missed muster for a decade or two ) in "Black Jack" or Parisien Essence, it is a food colouring that is basically burnt sugar. They then wack them into their "Alto Sham" ovens at about 300 degress for about 10 min and then it holds the temp at a just barely legal temp. A hot box in a takeaway would be hotter. In my opinion and mine alone it is one of the most awful steakes you can get, don't get me started on the rest of the operation.

Mate,
Can you quantifie the "Barely Legal Temp" for the record?
I may be able to change your thinking and also explain a few things to the punters.
Without true facts, Non of what you have written is a bad thing or a good thing.
If not (no facts, Temps ect) , Its just all bull shit.

[pog mo hoin]

No, never worked in one, I know a fella who used too. He states that the hold temp was approx 86 degreees C. He worked for them for some time and had a nasty departure. So maybe the info is tainted, But he did leave the establishment about 3yrs ago, after several years with them, so i believe what he says. That is all the info at this point, if more appears I will share, But I still am not a fan of the fare at these places, just not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

[iqarus]

No, never worked in one, I know a fella who used too. He states that the hold temp was approx 86 degreees C. He worked for them for some time and had a nasty departure. So maybe the info is tainted, But he did leave the establishment about 3yrs ago, after several years with them, so i believe what he says. That is all the info at this point, if more appears I will share, But I still am not a fan of the fare at these places, just not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

well that temp is not correct either way.

[Tailortaker]

well that temp is not correct either way.
in what way ???

[flybloke]

There is nothing wrong with cooking a steak in this way, Although Holding it at 86 Deg is a bit high and I doubt that is the temp they hold them at, I can do it at 66;D IE , The oven never gets over 66 Deg (Or below)
With this temp, The meat will not brown, So a molasses rub and a flaming from a gas torch prior to "Holding" , will get the colour.
Hold for 7-10-18hrs, Doesn't matter. The meat is red raw in colour but totally cooked through?????
I think its about time I put up a "Fish" dish.

[sleepygreg]

Now that would be good Flybloke....need some more fish dishes. I am almost thinking about resorting to putting some stir fry recipes up...just to keep the board going.

Greg

[pog mo hoin]

66 is about human body temp, you may as well put the meat under your armpit, I was alwas led to believe that a higher temp for a shorter period of time is the best way of killing most bacteria. But I am but a simple man

[Noelm]

haha, I can see it now, a family BBQ and Pog is walking around with a big rump steak under his armpit to cook it, I hate to think how a sausage is cooked though!!!

[flybloke]

This is a report by a colleague of mine that is arguably the best BBQ chef in Australia. He runs BBQ Cooking schools in WA.
He did the science and I emulate it.
So the Kudos goes to him
Find him here
http://www.urbangriller.com/

This lesson uses a Rack of Beef to illustrate the importance of internal temperature or "Doneness" and how it can be used do guarantee results.
In this recipe the meat is not permitted to rise above 66 degrees Celsius at any stage in the cooking process, the premise being that at temperatures above 66° C (151° F) the juices inside the cells expand to the point that the cell wall breaks and the juice is dispersed through the meat.
This recipe is cooked over 7 hours using only the heat from 6 Heat Beads at any given time, the Idea is to keep the cooking chamber at the same temperature as you want the final result (in this case Medium Well Done: 66° C (151° F)).

First light 6 Heat Beads in your favourite BBQ, then wait till they have a nice white powdery covering of ash, this means they are ready for cooking as the petro-chemicals have been driven off.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/Beads%20light%202.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/Bead%20Light%20wide.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/beads%20ready%202.jpg

Place your meat on the grill and brown it with a blowtorch to develop colour and taste through "caramelisation" otherwise known as the Maillard reaction. The Maillard reaction occurs at 150° C (300° F) and with such a low cooking temperature the meat will not brown without the help of a blowtorch.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/meat%20in%202.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/Blowtorch.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/maliard%20wide.jpg

Close the lid, check the cooking chamber temperature and come back in three hours.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/68%20oven.jpg

After three or four hours check the cooking chamber temperature and the beef, you will most likely need to add a couple more Heat Beads, I use Beads leftover from previous cooking sessions as they have no petro-chemicals and will re-ignite easily when in contact with the already lit ones, this is a good time to add some wood chunks for added smoke flavour.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/55%20meat.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/add%20old%20coals.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/add%20wood.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/bbq%20wide.jpg

After 7 hours check the internal temperature of the beef, it should be ready to serve. At this point you could hold the meat at serving temperature in the cooking chamber for another four hours or so without a perceivable loss of moisture or quality when served. In addition the meat has been heated evenly and not to the point where the cells rupture, so there is no need to let it rest before serving.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/66.7%20meat.jpg

Here I have brought the meat straight to the table and cut it without resting. You can see I have lost a minimum of the juices, you can also see the structure of the meat is preserved and the cook is even across the cut. Remember this is cooked to Medium Well Done! If we got to this internal temperature by "normal" cooking in a hot chamber the outside of the meat would be dry and stringy and the inside grey, dry and to my mind over cooked (I like mine rare).

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/serve.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/carve.jpg

Here is what was left in the BBQ the next day and what juices were lost in the carving.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/whats%20left.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/juices%20left.jpg

Cheers
Chris

[sleepygreg]

that looks like a whole bone on rib fillet. Might try that one.....and add a final step after carving.....throw each piece on a super hot and clean hot plate to sear each side (i love that seared flavour on a medium rare piece of steak). Or am i complicating the issue.

Greg

PS...anticipating some fish recipes.

[flybloke]

Ha Ha, Your a sh!t stirer Greg(How to ruin good meat::) ). I just thought Id put this one to the final death knell.
Hopefully, Id like any chefs to chime in??
But maybe a new thread is in order.
Greg, Have I done my grean curry mother in law fish in tripple layer foil bag?
Carp tastes good with this:P

[sleepygreg]

Ok - guilty - i am a Sh%t stirrer, but I usually use cooking chop stiks to get a good stir LOL.

I am putting up a Thread on 'How to make the less desirable fish into delicacies'.

Feel free to start it off while I try to dig up John McConkeys 'blackened Carp' recipe....its bloody brilliant.

Greg

[iqarus]

http://usera.imagecave.com/Urbangriller/RackBeef/carve.jpg


you're bloody close mate, use just a rib-eye next time ;)

[Aunty Jack]

Would this work on any cut of meat eg :rump
I've been ageing one and its ready for eating.
I take it you can still use dry rubs and garlic for flavor or would that ruwin it.
The Sunday roast is looking good thanks.

[NEWBY]

Dont even bother bringing up 'hogs breath' with me. I have eaten ther on a number of occassions....as part of a groups...and have yet to have a meal that I am happy with. As far as im concerned they are over rated and have absolute crap food. I will never chose to eat there. Might reluctantly eat there if part of a group........but never will it be my choice.

Greg
Agreed, tough meat, soggy fatty hogs tail fry's and you cant complain about something that is NOT there "SERVICE"
Its all about "perception"....
They have sold people on the idea that slow cooked meat is good...All it really means is it is a cheap cheap cut or from a crap supplier. Needs 18 hours to break down all the crap. Another 18 hours to digest the crap.
I cant imagine cooking Black Angus for 18 hours.
If its not grazing on the salad on your plate, it is overcooked.

[Fishoboy11]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and have learnt a lot from flybloke's commentary, some of which I must now look at putting into practice. I love using my webber for traditional roasting and am tempted to have a go slow cooking in it, but may be best served trying in the oven first.

Interestingly we dined at HBC in Dubbo just this week. It was my first time for many years and although I felt the traditional cut rib was a tad small, it tasted great and the service was also very good.

[sleepygreg]

I can't believe this thread has had 9000 reads. Must be a lot of people out there that eat at the place. A sad indictment on our 'better' nosheries.

[sleepygreg]

maybe time for a new thread.

[snapperdan]

Slow cooking is the bomb. Love to get a propper smoker and do some pulled pork sandwciches etc. Just went to a party where a whole lamb was slow cooked in a pizza oven. The lamb was unbeleivable.

This is a good recipe if you are looking to get into slow cooking. Its from a Pos Kitchen episode with Neil Perry. Cook this for your wife and kids on a windy day and every time the sun is shining and the seas are flat you shouldnt have a problem getting out for a fish.

serves 4
2 or 3 bone rib of beef (2-3 ribs will be enough for 4 people), preferably dry-aged for at least 3 weeks
Sea salt
Extra virgin olive oil
Freshly ground pepperRed Wine Sauce
500ml full bodied red wine
Olive oil
Small carrot, peeled and finely diced
½ red onion, finely diced
2 garlic cloves, chopped
2 field mushrooms, chopped
150g meat trimmings, chopped
100ml balsamic vinegar
1 ½ tbs red wine vinegar
150ml port
2 thyme sprigs
Veal stock and butter to finish Recipes

Slow Roasted Rib of Beef

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/pohskitchen/images/stars-5.gif (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/pohskitchen/stories/s2905142.htm#comments) 8 ratings (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/pohskitchen/stories/s2905142.htm#comments)

Episode: Meat with Neil Perry (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/pohskitchen/stories/s2896254.htm), Wednesday, 26 May 2010

Related recipes: Pork Belly with Wood Ear Fungus (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/pohskitchen/stories/s2905140.htm)
Method


Preheat the oven to 75°C, or as low as it will go. Take the rib out of the refrigerator a couple of hours before you intend to cook it and season it well with sea salt. Let it come to room temperature. (Alternatively, you can do what we do at Rockpool and season it the night before)Rub the rib with extra virgin olive oil and put in a large roasting tin. Put in the preheated oven and turn the dish every 30 minutes or so. About one and a half hours into the roasting, slide the meat thermometer into the centre of the beef to check the core temperature, remove the thermometer and continue to cook until the reading is 53°C. This will take up to three hours and beyond - it may take up to four hours in all. Remember that if your oven is a little hotter, you will need to take the meat out a degree or two earlier.
When the meat is done, remove it and put it on a chopping board. Carefully remove the bones from the beef and turn the oven down as low as it will go (you may need to pin the door slightly ajar), as you want to create a warm environment of around 60°C in which to rest the meat. Put a frying pan that is large enough to hold the beef on the stove. Add a healthy splash of extra virgin olive oil and heat to just below smoking. Add the beef and sear, turning three centimetres at a time, until the entire rib has a lovely crust. Return it to the roasting tin and put in the oven for about thirty minutes to rest while you get the other parts of the meal together, or at least get your guests a drink. Alternatively, you can sear the beef as it is and serve on the bone. On a chopping board, cut the rib into four beautiful rose-red round slices and place one each in the centre of four plates. Drizzle with extra virgin olive oil and season liberally with freshly ground pepper. Serve immediately.Don't Forget
You have a meat thermometer in your hand, so you can cook the meat at whatever temperature you like, but if you cook it on high heat - say at around 200°C - you will have to take it out when its internal temperature is 48-49°C, as the meat's core temperature will continue to rise a fair bit due to the residual cooking. The meat will also benefit from a much longer resting period, about one hour. You won't need to seal the beef, however, as the high heat will do that for you.Accompaniments
This classic roast beef goes well with many things but I like to serve it with spinach puree, potato gratin and horseradish cream, or a little red wine sauce - be careful to use just a tablespoon, not a full ladle as I feel it really overpowers and drowns the beef.Red Wine Sauce
Makes about 150ml
Make this red wine reduction with good quality, full bodied red wine; don't use wine that is not pleasant to drink or you will end up with something that is not rich enough. Cook the reduction with some meat scraps, bacon or pancetta as they add flavour and help remove any bitter and sour flavours from the wine. Once you have your reduction, you can add veal stock and reduce further. When it is ready t serve, add a little butter (or alternately add butter and leave the stock out entirely for a rich butter sauce).
Put a little olive oil in a small saucepan and add the carrot, onion, garlic and meat trimmings. Cook until they are lightly coloured and the meat sealed well. Add the two vinegars and reduce to barely two and a half tablespoons.
Add the port and again reduce to barely two and a half tablespoons.
Add the red wine and thyme and reduce to 150ml, then strain.Boiled Mixed Greens With Extra Virgin Olive Oil And Lemon
Extra virgin olive oil
Fresh lemons
Sea salt and freshly ground pepper
Selection of boiled greens
This is quite simply a mixed selection of greens, boiled and served dressed with extra virgin olive oil, lemon juice, salt and pepper.
On the program snow peas, beans and broccolini were cooked, but cabbage leaves and leeks also compliment the beef.Its simple. Season, cook in oven for long a long time, chuck on bbq at the end to get a bit of crispynes to the outside.

[Sullivan]

I've been told that HB slow cooked steaks are soaked in a brine of bicarb soda 17 of those 18 hours.Cant strart cooking a steak for 18 hours in the hope that someone orders it.Cheer's

[timeout]

I can tell you the basic method for cooking low and slow,
18 Hours is a bit too long for any cut of meat.
Generally 12-16 hours is all that is needed to break down the collagen and render the fat from your rib steak.
The best cuts for low and slow are marbled cuts such as Rib eye, Pork Neck(Scotch), Brisket, Pork belly(Spare), Pork ribs, Beef chuck roast, etc.
The thicker the cut the better it will render and start falling off the bone.
You cannot slow cook a 2cm rib eye;), It needs to be 2-3 inches thick.
Better still, a hole 2-4 kg joint.

Most BBQ,s will not cook low enough unless you have a Webber WSM, Offset smoker, or are really crafty with a Webber kettle.

You can however do it in a normal electric Oven,
The key is to first rub the meat with a dry rub then cook at a temp of 100C-120C (110C is perfect). Never Lift the lid to inspect for the first 4 hours.
If you use a Temp gage you don't have to open doors or lift lids for the entire cook.
You are cooking beyond "Doneness" For beef or pork you need to slowly get the internal temp up to 90-92 Deg C,
The meat may "Stall" and take many hours to get there but increasing the heat above 120 Deg C will only end in failure.

If you do it in a BBQ such as the webber smoky mountain, It all happens naturally, I'm cooking a 6 hr Pork Louisiana smoked baby back ribs right now along with home made southern style sauce on the stove.

There is so much involved and are happy to answer Q,s
Its not hard to do fall apart, REAL BBQ meat, You just need the right equipment and advice.
Mate I have been lurking here for a few years but this post has made me pay to join just to say thanks for the awesome cooking tips and links.I love bbqing etc but I tried you're suggestions and I have to say I/we had the Best feed ever[I told our new qld friends that's who we always do it LOL]
Each to their own but to me you're methods are awesome.
Cheers Dave

[clevelandv8]

guys, do yourselves a favour and think about bag cooking.
sous vide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csqrLEkNGLU&feature=related
i'll try and show you some more on it later.
i'm not a fan of HB or any other chain steak joint for that matter.
yes i'm a chef, but if you buy your own vac pac machine and invest in one of these bad boys you'll never look back.
not just for steaks, but anything.
cooking in a bag keeps the nutrients in, juice in, flavour in.

food for thought.

i hate paying for dinner out and getting upset!

mick

[Drifty75]

I used this from another forum..


For a while I have been on a quest to cook the perfect steak. Some OCAU'ers may have seen my previous recipe (http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=661511) in the geek food recipe section.

Well, I discovered a new method. This way is even better, you won't believe how tender the slow cooking method renders the steak. All the tough bits and fat melt away into the meat. With the above method, your steak needs to be tender even before you start, and if you cook a tougher cut of meat with fibre in it (like T-bone) ... well you will be picking the fibre off your teeth. The previous method gives you a very good home cooked steak. With this method, it is even better than restaurant quality. You have to dine at a Michelin 2 star establishment to get the steak texture as soft, and the flavour as full as this.

Just remember that the total cooking time is 4-5 hours (not counting time out of the fridge to bring to room temperature) so save this recipe for days which you have all day at home. If you follow the method exactly, and monitor your cooking temperatures as I have outlined, it is guaranteed to be foolproof.

Ingredients
- Rack of ribeye steak on the bone, chine bone removed. Preferably dry hung for 3 weeks.
- Sea salt
- Pepper
- Garlic
- Extra virgin olive oil
- Oven thermometer and meat thermometer <--- IMPORTANT

Method
1. Night before, salt the steak and leave in the fridge. I use Fleur de Sel salt, which is a French sea salt. You don't have to use this, but at the very minimum use sea salt, not that powdered Saxa stuff. Lake Maldon pink salt is very good, but a bit expensive. Trust me, using sea salt makes a huge difference. Salting the steak the night before makes a huge difference.

2. Infuse garlic into extra virgin olive oil. To do this, roughly chop garlic pieces and drop into about 1/8 cup of extra virgin olive oil. Discard the garlic before using the oil.

3. Bring the steak out of the fridge 2-3 hours before cooking to bring up to room temperature. Rub the garlic infused oil into the steak at this stage. Here is a picture of my steak at this point:

image (http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/_MG_2666_e2ad96d67cf5d073339a59b.jpg)

4. Bring your oven to 70 deg C. Monitor the temperature by leaving an oven thermometer in the oven.

5. Put steak on a roasting pan and put into the oven. Turn the steak every 30 mins, so that a different side faces up every time you turn. The steak will be evenly browned.

6. After 2 hours in the oven (or sooner if your oven cannot go to 70deg), insert the meat thermometer to check on the internal temperature. Continue flipping every 30 mins, checking the temperature every time.

7. When the internal temperature reaches 55deg C (about 3-4 hours of cooking time depending on the cut of your steak and the size), remove from the oven and cover in foil. Rest for 30 mins. By now the look of the steak and the smells will drive you mad with hunger but DO NOT skimp on the resting time! If you want a rare steak, remove from the oven at 50deg. If you want well done, remove at 60deg.

8. Heat oil in a pan until smoking. Sear the steak one side at a time until perfectly caramelized throughout. This is what it looks like at this stage:

image (http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/_MG_2667_13a48b2754b10edc3900708.jpg)

image (http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/_MG_2668_93c800bf78a8c3b6c6cdf27.jpg)

9. Cover in foil and rest for another half an hour. Put your serving plates in the oven, and heat to 100deg C. Prepare some side dishes* while you wait.

*I have some recipes for side dishes if anyone is interested :)

10. Carve and serve one cutlet per person on the heated plates. Grind pepper on top and eat.

This is what the steak looks like at the end of cooking. Notice how the meat is evenly set from center all the way to the edge. With conventional cooking, the outside becomes well done while the inside remains medium rare. Also note that the juices did not run with carving - that's what you get if you rest the meat properly. You can even see how tender and juicy it is:

image (http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/_MG_2671_6fcdb9f389cdc7ae039bc0a.jpg)

[ozscott]

Flybroke thanks for posting that up. What sort of weight is the rack? Is there a cooking guide for time for say a third of a large rump? Cheers