HELP Towing oversize regs

[Spaniard_King]

Guys, a mate has an oversize boat.. i.e 9m x 2.8m wide on an ally trailer

Can annyone tell me the current QLD regs for towing this boat in QLD..

Apparently QLD transport have just told him it wont be able to be towed on the road at all::)

TIA

[Noelm]

I think there was quite a thread about this a week or so ago, not too sure about the "not at all" stuff, but it will certainly have restrictions imposed.

[levinge]

Sounds like a marina berth might be a better option.....

I dare say he would have some pretty strict rules to follow i.e. oversized signs etc.

That width would come pretty close to squeezing the spare distance in the lane width

[oldboot]

Definitely as the regulations stand he can not tow it at all in QLD with a pasenger vehicle.

The width is the problem, 2.5m is the limit and not a mm more.

He may be able to get a heavy transport company acreditied to transport indivisable loads to relocate it under a permit, but that will mean an escort and the whole disco light show.

There is a thread a bit over a week old that raises the possibility of a new permit system for boats up to 2.9 meters, but no sign of the details......and there are mixed feelings about expectations.

cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Oldboot, so the F250 wouldn't suffice as a tow vehicle as she is under 4T

[oldboot]

Not if you can drive it on a car licence.

They just don't want joe public towing wide loads.

cheers

[sleepygreg]

Not if you can drive it on a car licence.

They just don't want joe public towing wide loads.

cheers

From my observations of some of the people I see towing boats (both big and small).

Probably rightly so!!!!!

If you want to tow something that big..I would think a MR/HR licence would be mandatory

I have done too many k's on the open road the length and breadth of this country, and seen the results of people towing stuff that was WAY beyond their skillsets. I dont really want to meet head on, a driver towing a wide load on the bruce highway who has no idea how to tow that load.

Cheers
Greg

[Aunty Jack]

Any thing over 2.4 m needs flags and over size signage.
Over 2.7 you need a poilt car and radiosflashing lights.
there are certin times you canot drive 7am to 9 am 4 pm to 6pm .
Not to shore on the times but its close.
The F 250 would do if the weights are right.

[hercules]

No Garry the f 250 will not do it , nor my chev as neither have a GVM of over 4.5 tonne .Must be a truck of 4.5 tonne GVM and above with the appropriate licence to go with it.
Craig
Call me if you want to know more

[Vitamin Sea]

Hi Garry

Old Boot is on the money, overwidth is overwidth.

There is a good article in F & B #122 about this very subject, here is a small extract.

"Throughout Australia, in every State and Territory, there is a maximum legal width of a boat and/or its trailer of 2.5m. That is not 2.59, it's not 2.63 - it's 2.5m.
If the salesman stands there and suggests "you'll get away with it". make sure that you get a personal guarantee from him that he will cover you for any loss of insurance, damages, court costs and legal fees arising from any claim ever lodged against you by the police or dept of transport inspectors over the next 3 to 5 years of the boats life."

Weight:

" Keep firmly in mind there is a de facto towing limit in Australia of 3.5 tonnes - this is the maximum weight LandCruiser, Patrol, Tourag (etc) can tow. Sure, the law states that you can tow up to 4.5 tonnes, but the only vehicle in Australia that can do that is the Ford F-250, and even then, it requires a special, $2,000 4.5 tonne towing kit."

These are only small extracts, the complete article is over 3 columns of text, if you wish, I can scan it through to you.


Hope this assists

Cheers

Bill

[Dean1]

Isnt "Alexander"2.8m wide?? Barry ( dayoo) will know the rules as he fishes out of it regularly and they tow it everywhere. I think its wide load signs and time restrictions if im correct?

[Dean1]

And Garry Jason Gibbo will be looking at the same dilema with his new up and coming AMM. Cheers.

[lippa]

i thought 3meters daylight hours only with front and rear beacons, and oversize signs. of course the vehicles gvm would have to factored in regards to weight. 500 series isuzu's seem to be the truck for this kind a thing gary.

[Spaniard_King]

Yeh not sure he wants to part with the F250..

Get back to this post with then outcome in a few days

cheers

All

[oldboot]

Oh and remember friends....the law is one thing......getting insurance is another thing all together.

Consider also.....regardless of the load and the permits or the towing vehicle, the trailer has to be registered, and they wont register a trailer over 2.5 meters wide.

cheers

[lippa]

Oh and remember friends....the law is one thing......getting insurance is another thing all together.

Consider also.....regardless of the load and the permits or the towing vehicle, the trailer has to be registered, and they wont register a trailer over 2.5 meters wide.

cheers


no dramas putting a 3 mt boat on a trailer that's 2.5mt or under is there?

[oldboot]

As long as you got the permits and the insurance, and you are towing with a heavy vehicle and have the appropriate licences, and you comply with the transport department conditions, and its not at night, or on certain public holidays, or on certain roads.;D;D;D

Oh hell you'd have to be keen..... and have a quid.


cheers

[Mister]

Oh and remember friends....the law is one thing......getting insurance is another thing all together.

Consider also.....regardless of the load and the permits or the towing vehicle, the trailer has to be registered, and they wont register a trailer over 2.5 meters wide.

cheers

Arh oldboot you appear to be changing your tune ::) you must have done a bit of homework ;D at last

You see all this rubbish about you can't tow an overwidth boat unless you are a truck driver is all rubbish. Yes you have some restrictions but of course it can be done and many people fall into this category.

If you disagree further then you might like to ask Peter Webster (Seamedia) how he towed an OVERWIDTH boat from the Goldcoast to Townsville and back with an F-250 which by the way is NOT classed as a TRUCK and DOES NOT require a TRUCK licence.

There is really a lot of people who by way of their incorrect comments should keep their comments to themselves as it is really not help the people who want the correct infomation.

[Aunty Jack]

No Garry the f 250 will not do it , nor my chev as neither have a GVM of over 4.5 tonne .Must be a truck of 4.5 tonne GVM and above with the appropriate licence to go with it.
Craig
Call me if you want to know more


I stand corrected.

[oldboot]

mate, there are a lot of people get away with doing a lot of things, till it all hts the fan and there are tears before bed time.there have even been people who have been issued permits outside of the current printed guidelines.

If you realy want to know, ring or better write to the department of transport. and get it in writing.


the bottom line is
If its is wider than 2.5m and you are towing with a passenger vehicle on a pasenger vehicle licence......good luck with that.

cheers

[Mister]

Like I said probably better to keep your comments out of something you obviously know nothing about. Leave this to the people who actually know and do it without any requirement to hit any fan, your comments are rubbish.

Did you know you do not need a TRUCK licence to drive a F-250, it is actually under 4.5 and has a GCM of a bit over 9 tonne WITHOUT a TRUCK licence.

[oldboot]

Well if you have facts and proof of facts..... cough up.

we all want to know

there have been astring of threads on this subject and no one has come up with a transport department ddocument or reference.

So stop telling people that they don't know what they are talking about unless you are prepared to contribute in a meaninfull way

cheers

[Mister]

Oldboot,

Simple question for you?

Do you or have you ever towed in this category? Yes or No

[Mister]

Oldboot, If you want the facts then you will not wear anything I have to say regardless of your lack of knowledge in this matter.

Might I suggest BEFORE you make any further comment you ring Peter Webster (or Ruth) and actually ask either of them the question direct.

Until some other third third party who also knows what they are talking about tells you direct you are only talking rubbish.

Talk to them and then come back and talk sense.

[Vitamin Sea]

Like I said probably better to keep your comments out of something you obviously know nothing about. Leave this to the people who actually know and do it without any requirement to hit any fan, your comments are rubbish.

Did you know you do not need a TRUCK licence to drive a F-250, it is actually under 4.5 and has a GCM of a bit over 9 tonne WITHOUT a TRUCK licence.


Hi

My earlier post "quotes" were from Peter Webster, the boat that you are refering to is I assume the Salty 27, which he towed with the F250.

That boat falls within the 2.5m width but over the 3.5 t, it is the width that old boot is refering to, he may have been a bit misguided with the truck licence.

As Peter states, all is good until the shi% hits the fan with the oversize.::)

cheers

VS

[oldboot]

what I have or have not done make absolutely no difference to the FACTS

Now lest make this clear I will not argue that you can tow up to 4.5 tonnes with a vehicle up to 4.5 tonnes with a passenger car licence...so lets put that aside.

it is the overdimension load specificlay the 2.5meter width that is the issue.

SO

DO you or do you not have any documentary proof or directions to first hand authorised government communication discribing what the requirements are and the procedure required to obtain such approval.

no second hand, ask him ask her... facts, proof, direct from the horses mouth.

I and quite a few others have dragged thru the legeslation and the published government guidelines.

If there is some other documentation I and many others would be only too keen to know about it

so cough up or shut up

cheers

[Mister]

I have it first hand buster but obviously you have no ability to handle it. So I will shut up and let you peddle your garbage. Case closed from my viewpoint.

[lippa]

plenty of pro fisherman running our hi ways set up legally over 2.5mts
some gmv's allow them to run f250's the others are running trucks with lr/mr licenses. i can't see how this is being made out by some members to be a big deal. comply and your right. don't comply and receive a finger in your bum.

its appears if old mate is within the gvm, with his f250, in daylight hours(some exceptions) with appropriate singage, and flashers he's good as gold! why knock it! I'd love a tow-able 2.8mt boat!!!!!!! more power to the man!!!!;D;D;D


cheers

lippa

[Robbo76]

I believe that we are all choosing to participate in a fishing forum and that means that we all have the right to our opinions and questions. Is it necessary for people to be so disrespectful to each other just because they don't agree?

Mister, you may be quite knowledgeable in this area and we could all benefit from your knowledge. I don't understand what is so difficult about sharing your views and knowledge to help a fellow fisherman out...RESPECTFULLY! In relation to your last post, I think that it may be you that needs to learn to "handle it", not to mention be able to back up your arguments with documented proof. This should be easy for you since you have this information "first hand". I am looking forward to learning more from you, but hope that will be put forward in a more positive manner.

All the best,

Rob

[oldboot]

it may be that there are ongoing permits or authorisations issued before the nationalisation of the towing regulations and the publishing of the current guidelines.
It would be a bit hard to take away authorisations previously granted.

From my reading of the act there is some discressionary power and the current guidelines are not contained in the legeslation

I will be very interested to see what the new proposed guidelines state.

I would also be very interested to hear of any private individuals who have been issued with permits since the publishing of the current guidelines.


cheers

[rat_catcher]

Once again this whole discussion point turns into a nightmare and a sh*tfight!!! I just wish the gubment could bl**dy well put the rules and regulations in plain english on a website someplace so we could all read them and know 100% for sure what the deal is.

I too am interested in towing a >2.5m beam trailerboat and cannot for the life of me find the true story.

[upstart]

Thinking outside the square a little....Would it be possible to 'carry' an oversize boat on something like a flat bed truck...something like an RACQ tow truck? You could have the boat sitting on a much lighter trailer which you would just use at the ramp. I guess you'd need a truck licence but it's probably easier to obtain one of those than an elsuive permit. I know it's not ideal but could it be done?

[oldboot]

you could just tow it with the truck....ya going to have to have a permit or some other type of authorisation any way if it is over 2.5 meters.

Yes you could think out side the square.....Sterfan draggs his big pink boat arround on its personal semi trailer.....with no never mind........ and that boat is way wider than 2.5 meters...... BUT it travels tilted up to about 45% on one side....it looks realy COOL tilted up that way, because you can see the whole boat .......but that wouldn't have been a consideration...no;D

cheers

[upstart]

I guess what I was getting at with the 'carrying' part is avoiding all the towing rules and regs. Also, I think there would be a huge saving building a light (cheap) trailer to cradle the boat whilst it is on the tray rather than a u-beaut, tri axle, fully braked etc etc (bloody expensive) tow trailer.
Just a thought.

[oldboot]

Ahh well .. and this is important...it isn't a towing issue.......it is an over dimension load issue.

The only reason it is a towing issue is that mostly recreational boats just happen to me moved on trailers.
Even if you built a special truck and the whole caboodle weighed less than 4.5 tonne and could be driven on a passenger car licence all the overdimension loads issues will remain the same.

And by the way it isn't just width, length and height are also specified, but they don't seem to be an issue.

cheers

[BM]

I think Rat Catcher nailed it here guys,

Your Crazy Banana Bender Government needs to get its shit together...... :) :)

Here in Vic I can tow up to 3.5m wide, with NO PERMIT, but obviously must comply with the guidelines set down by Vicroads which does exclude some travel times, roads and periods (logically). Also NO truck/truck licence required (generally speaking).

The "light trailer" classification ends at 4500kg gross weight. If you have a passenger vehicle rated to the weight of your LOAD, then again, logically, you can tow it with said passenger vehicle.

Could not be more simple down here guys! and when you speak to the appropriate section at Vicroads they will tell you: oversize loads (boats and many other categories) are commonplace and becomming more so and Vicroads approach is about enabling people to move these "oversize/overmass" loads rather than being yet another obstacle in their way...

Forward thinking and logical and appreciated.

I replied in the topic of a week or 2 ago also and would be interested to hear if there is a definitive answer on oversize/overmass objects in QLD. People who move large earthmoving machinery must obtain a permit to do so and if they can get one then the bloke with an overwidth boat can get one. They cannot discriminate one against the other. Not in these modern times.

So.... whats the go, from someone with the facts? I really don't want to spend time making phone calls for issues in a state that do not concern me.

Cheers guys

[lee8sec]

This is a cut & paste of my post in the other towing thread. Leigh


Nick / BM, is this the info you where talking about for victoria? http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...VRPIN00966.pdf (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/3B9992E3-D9B7-4F5E-B0A6-9AA6ED4E3DE2/0/VRPIN00966.pdf)

If so that is heavey vehicle section.

Can some one put up the info from each state where it says its ok to tow over width loads with passenger vehicles ? Leigh

PS, I have looked for vic, nsw & qld & all the info i can find( doesn't mean there isnt more) is all related to heavey vehicles ie over 4.5t

[BM]

Lee8sec,

Correct! That is the document covering overwidth/overmass vehicles for Victoria. INCORRECT, re heavy vehicle section.

If you speak with the relevant section of Vicroads they will advise you (as they have done me on several occasions now) that the documentation does not only relate to trucks/heavy vehicles, but ALL vehicles towing overwidth/overmass loads up to 49.5 tons.

I have a heavy vehicle licence and an appropriate truck (can't tow though as it doesn't have a tow hitch and is not what the truck is used for anyway).

But that bulletin that you linked to IS and I'll repeat that, it IS the defining document covering overwidth transport around the state of Victoria.

Why would I go out on a limb and publicly state something that was not accurate?? Sure I may make mistakes from time to time but I have researched this many times now.. Its correct.

cheers

[oldboot]

as for the blokes up here in the transport industry.........yeh they mode heaps of big things.

When we travel north...we note hoe many "big things" we encounter.....and we dont count it as a "big thing" unless it has flags, lights and a wide load sign.....one trip we counted 27 "big things" between here and townsville.

things have been sreamlined for those guys, if it is under a certain size they have it pretty easy......BUT... and this is the issue.........they are not towing with pasenger vehicles on pasenger licences........... and they have acreditations, risk assessments, work method statements ......... and plenty of experience.

cheers

[lee8sec]

Nick in the top rh corner it states it covers class 1,2 & 3 vehicles, they are all HEAVEY vehicles not cars. If you look at the sub section of where that bulliten comes from it is heavey vehicles.
Can you get in writing from vic roads that it includes passenger car / utes towing boats? Leigh



Lee8sec,

Correct! That is the document covering overwidth/overmass vehicles for Victoria. INCORRECT, re heavy vehicle section.

If you speak with the relevant section of Vicroads they will advise you (as they have done me on several occasions now) that the documentation does not only relate to trucks/heavy vehicles, but ALL vehicles towing overwidth/overmass loads up to 49.5 tons.

I have a heavy vehicle licence and an appropriate truck (can't tow though as it doesn't have a tow hitch and is not what the truck is used for anyway).

But that bulletin that you linked to IS and I'll repeat that, it IS the defining document covering overwidth transport around the state of Victoria.

Why would I go out on a limb and publicly state something that was not accurate?? Sure I may make mistakes from time to time but I have researched this many times now.. Its correct.

cheers

[lee8sec]

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/HeavyVehicles/RouteInformation/OversizeOvermassVehicles.htm

This is where the bulliten came from. And you are correct, it is the defining item, but for TRUCKS.

It would be great IF they allowed it for under 4.5t tow rigs, imagine all the import boats we could get. Leigh

[O-3]

Once again this whole discussion point turns into a nightmare and a sh*tfight!!

And by the same culprits:-X

I'd like to know if anyone has ever been denied an insurance claim because their boat was too wide?

Those Trailcraft owners (http://www.trailcraft.com.au/boats/boat.aspx?model=610trailblazer) to name just one might want to find out where they stand if that is the case.

[BM]

Lee8sec,

Ring Vicroads and speak to them about it and they will enlighten you..!! You do not understand the terminology here in Victoria. The reference to a Class1 vehicle refers to a "vehicle that, in carrying a large indivisible item, exceeds one or more the general mass and dimension limits of Part 4 in the Road Safety (Vehicle) Regulations 1999". DOES NOT need to be a heavy vehicle.

I understand your perspective and the fact that the bulletin has a truck on the front cover and refers to heavy vehicles but it refers to vehicles nonetheless and this is an important point.

Cheers

[lee8sec]

Nick, i have just moved from NSW to Qld, it makes no differance to me what the vic rules are but to rely on a verbal OK from some one in vic roads & have a accident & find out its wrong could be the end for some one in victoria. no where does it say it covers cars.
If it does, i will be happy to be shown where and proved wrong. Leigh

[lee8sec]

Class 1 by vic road definison. Leigh
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/HeavyVehicles/InformationBulletins/SpecialPurposeVehiclesMobileCranes.htm

PS, i lived in vic for 22 years


Lee8sec,

Ring Vicroads and speak to them about it and they will enlighten you..!! You do not understand the terminology here in Victoria. The reference to a Class1 vehicle refers to a "vehicle that, in carrying a large indivisible item, exceeds one or more the general mass and dimension limits of Part 4 in the Road Safety (Vehicle) Regulations 1999". DOES NOT need to be a heavy vehicle.

I understand your perspective and the fact that the bulletin has a truck on the front cover and refers to heavy vehicles but it refers to vehicles nonetheless and this is an important point.

Cheers

[lee8sec]

Got to this link & look at whats on the top of the RH colum, HEAVY VEHICLES, this is where the bulletin is. There is no link to it under any car rules. Leigh

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/HeavyVehicles/RouteInformation/OversizeOvermassVehicles.htm

[BM]

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/HeavyVehicles/RouteInformation/OversizeOvermassVehicles.htm

This is where the bulletin came from. And you are correct, it is the defining item, but for TRUCKS.

It would be great IF they allowed it for under 4.5t tow rigs, imagine all the import boats we could get. Leigh

Read my prior post please and then contact Vicroads.

I have a HV licence and am fully versed in all such matters. Your continual postings are only to your detriment.

Leigh, please, ACCEPT the facts. I have presented them to you. I have given you the avenues to cross check them for yourself.

I am NOT wrong in this case...

[BM]

Leigh,

Ring Vicroads. 131171

Ask for the Road Safety Section.

Tell them you want to tow around a, say Bertram 25 flybridge at just over 3mtrs width.

Come back to me when you have the reply to that question.....

Oh, and if you happen to jag someone who does not give an answer in line with what I have informed you then ring back and check again.

Cheers

[BM]

It means nothing other than accuracy but I have lived in Vic for 35yrs and also been a Vicroads "authorised dealer" registering "on site": boats, trailers and caravans (but not for 35yrs though)

cheers

[Mr__Bean]

Does anyone have a tape measure?

It would be good to actually measure who is winning this mindless pissing contest so that we can then get back to some informed, rational and contributory posting on this topic.

- Darren