What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

[dayoo]

Scott,

A general fishing licence is not favoured by the present Queensland Government and is not the preferred option of Queensland Fisheries.

Fisheries prefers to identify a fish species under sustainability threat and concentrate resources to rectify the problem.

The financial crisis has seen funding cut to all State Government Departments including Fisheries. It won't be long before funding of some Fisheries activities is sought from recreational anglers in the form of a species specific permit.

In future years with change in Government and Fisheries staff the introduction of a general fishing licence will be forced upon us particularly with all the Mexicans moving north from down south.

Cheers
Barry

[albey]

Think long and hard before going for a fishing licence arrangement.Much has been said about the fishing fraternity voting for a licence and therefore have control over how the money is spent.Be assured,as soon as the money is collected the Government will have full and total control and the only say we will have is maybe just before an election,particularly with this Government,I just dont trust them particularly at a time when they are broke,and are selling our assets for a few bucks and cancelling the fuel subsidy for a few more bucks.They have been and are the worst State Government we have ever had,but still they are voted in time after time,will we get a return for our licence money?FAT BLOODY CHANCE ;D The Peter Beatie grin

[Scott Mitchell]

Be assured,as soon as the money is collected the Government will have full and total control and the only say we will have is maybe just before an election,particularly with this Government,I just dont trust them particularly at a time when they are broke,and are selling our assets for a few bucks and cancelling the fuel subsidy for a few more bucks.They have been and are the worst State Government we have ever had,but still they are voted in time after time,will we get a return for our licence money?FAT BLOODY CHANCE ;D The Peter Beatie grin



If it was legislated THE SAME AS THE NSW model - The government CAN NOT spend it http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/headbanger.gif

At a time when our government REALLY HAS NO SURPLUS FUNDS - We need to look at ways of raising the funds ourselves. The revenue raised from the NSW license scheme GOES ON TOP OF THE DEPARTMENTS GENERAL BUDGET - AND CAN ONLY BE SPENT WITH APPROVAL FROM THE TRUST COMMITTEES http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/headbanger.gif

But hey - apparently the government has "promised" us $35 million ::)

Or we can lobby to have our taxes paid back to us - because it is only fair - right :P

I'm going fishing - Scotto

[FNQCairns]

Gaden was a good point in fact here, anglers money was used to bail the minister (the department) out after he stuffed up and chose to fund other matters first. Anglers do not own Gaden nor do they have any intellectual or lawful ownership or 'rights of any kind' over anything their money makes, I wonder if the Gaden funding was ongoing and I also wonder if 90% of licence owners would have freely chose to bail it out??

Pretty lucky the licence came along at exactly the right time to save the CRCs and fishery's research arms from cutbacks in funding, would like to see exactly what research each and every dollar went toward, the odds are high much of it went toward funding projects the state would have funded anyway but now no longer needs to as fishery's has a slush fund that keeps the boys jobs funded so long as they keep applying.

cheers fnq

[Skusto]

totally aginst it..

[PinHead]

If it was legislated THE SAME AS THE NSW model - The government CAN NOT spend it http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/headbanger.gif

At a time when our government REALLY HAS NO SURPLUS FUNDS - We need to look at ways of raising the funds ourselves. The revenue raised from the NSW license scheme GOES ON TOP OF THE DEPARTMENTS GENERAL BUDGET - AND CAN ONLY BE SPENT WITH APPROVAL FROM THE TRUST COMMITTEES http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/headbanger.gif

But hey - apparently the government has "promised" us $35 million ::)

Or we can lobby to have our taxes paid back to us - because it is only fair - right :P

I'm going fishing - Scotto

who made the legislation? The Govt.

Who can change the legislation? The Govt..oh how some have so much confidence in their elected representatives. Scott and his suppoerters have a very unrealistic view of this current Govt and how they have been operating. Have you read todays papers? There is another backflip regarding the new dam. And you want to trust them?

I still cannot understand how anyonecan think this is a good idea..pay money to have a say in something we own..wow.

Perhaps some pressure should be put on your local member to spend money where it is needed. They have already increased boat registration to supposedly cover various items..what has happened there..bugger all.

Oh well Scott..I will leave you to play around with the good fairies in believing a license would work in this State.

[Scott Mitchell]

who made the legislation? The Govt.

Who can change the legislation? The Govt..oh how some have so much confidence in their elected representatives. Scott and his suppoerters have a very unrealistic view of this current Govt and how they have been operating. Have you read todays papers? There is another backflip regarding the new dam. And you want to trust them?

* PinHead - It has been WORKING for over 15 years in NSW - The revenue raised from the license GOES ON TOP OF THE DEPARTMENTS BUDGET http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/headbanger.gif

I still cannot understand how anyone can think this is a good idea..pay money to have a say in something we own..wow.

* So you recon you'll just lobby the Government to supply more funds from the general revenue to improve recreational angling - They have "promised" $35 million apparently & it's only "fair" they give you back some of your taxes - And you recon I'm out with the Pixies :P

Perhaps some pressure should be put on your local member to spend money where it is needed. They have already increased boat registration to supposedly cover various items..what has happened there..bugger all.
*Yep - There's that public revenue system working for us again ;)

Oh well Scott..I will leave you to play around with the good fairies in believing a license would work in this State.

* I'm not playing around - I'll fight for my right to enjoy sustainable fishing at every chance I get ;)

Wakey, wakey - Hands off #$@!!

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

I'm thinking the "good fairies" isnt the only thing he's been playing with lately ;)

Have a look at the Poll stat's - It is by NO means a landslide decision .There's obviously a reasonable portion of the Ausfish membership who are "realists" ;)

Regards Scotto

[finga]

Scotto....matey.
Biggest problem is people are, rightfully, thinking the QLD Government is like that shady bloke who stands in a dark alley and says...I hear your going away for the week-end. I'll look after your car and boat for the week-end...just give me the keys and your credit card and I'll look after it good as gold.....and when you get back you wonder why the car and boat is gone, the house is burgled and your double pluggers have been pinched and when you go to buy the new double pluggers there's no money in your account.

It seems to more then a few the QLD Government is that shady fella in the dark alley....
I wonder what happened to all the royalties they received from mining over the good years??
I wonder how they can justify rego increases of around 20-30% when CPI is 4. something??
Why is fuel 20c / litre cheaper 200km west of Brisbane then in Brisbane??
Why do they allow weekly fuel price cycling (especially seeing the low price is the price fuel should be)?? Does the cost of crude go up just before payday each week??
The answer to all those questions is MONEY!!!. Money that goes into the coffers to wast.

People are very suspicious of Anna and her cronies but (for some unknown to me) they get re-elected.

I'm in favour of a license to fund what you are suggesting BUT the reality is....will what you are suggesting the fund will do ever happen.
The QLD government can, and do, change the rules mid game.

[mangomick]

Have a look at the Poll stat's - It is by NO means a landslide decision .There's obviously a reasonable portion of the Ausfish membership who are "realists" ;)

Regards Scotto

I'll say one thing for you Scott , Your good fun and you must have hide as thick as a starry triggerfish.
Lets have a real look at your poll though. How many ausfish members are there and only a handful relpied. obviously means a lot of people couldnt be bothered to answer.
Go down your local jetty or beach on the week-end and talk to the poor old familly man down there fishing with his kids.He pays 10% tax on everything he buys as well as being taxed anything from a third to nearly a half of his weekly pay. Ask How happy would he be to have to buy a licence so he can take his kids fishing maybe twice a year and you may get a feel of a real response.
He's just paid an extra 20% for rego his fuel costs have just jumped 10% his electricity is going up and he will just have got a rates bill about 10 to 20% higher than last year. On his power bill he pays a levy for ambulance and on his rates a levy for the fire brigade.I reckon that he would think he pays enough in taxes and that governments need to be just as frugal as he is
Do you have a familly Scott?

[finga]

On his power bill he pays a levy for ambulance and on his rates a levy for the fire brigade.I reckon that he would think he pays enough in taxes and that governments need to be just as frugal as he is
Do you have a familly Scott?
We have 3 power bills and 2 rates notices....which means we're really screwed and still cannot get an ambo if needed :'(
Thank God for smoke detectors....
But the house full of dole collecting no hoper bludging ba$tards up the road get their dole and their single mum pensions and their 'what-ever other allowances they can get' and their rent paid so they can drink beer, eat nothing but Macca's, talk all day on mobiles and drive flash w@nker cars....and then stand up with hands out for handouts from welfare mobs because they cannot afford to feed their kids.
And then to really rub it in, they'll send their kids to day care (paid for by my taxes) and still sit at home and drink beer on the front veranda when people who actually go to work have to pay.

[Scott Mitchell]

I'll say one thing for you Scott , Your good fun and you must have hide as thick as a starry triggerfish.
* I've been around the traps a while ;D

Lets have a real look at your poll though. How many ausfish members are there and only a handful relpied. obviously means a lot of people couldnt be bothered to answer.
* This is what happens to us ( rec anglers ) All the time :(

Go down your local jetty or beach on the week-end and talk to the poor old family man down there fishing with his kids.He pays 10% tax on everything he buys as well as being taxed anything from a third to nearly a half of his weekly pay. Ask How happy would he be to have to buy a licence so he can take his kids fishing maybe twice a year and you may get a feel of a real response.

* If it was presented in a positive light & supported with the fact that his fishing WILL improve for the small cost of between $3- & $30 per year , I am sure I know his answer ;)

He's just paid an extra 20% for rego his fuel costs have just jumped 10% his electricity is going up and he will just have got a rates bill about 10 to 20% higher than last year. On his power bill he pays a levy for ambulance and on his rates a levy for the fire brigade.I reckon that he would think he pays enough in taxes and that governments need to be just as frugal as he is.
* WE KNOW THIS SYSTEM - IS NEVER going to give us the results we deserve ::)


Do you have a family Scott?

* Just one daughter - you can check out my full profile @ www.scotto.com.au (http://www.scotto.com.au) - I have nothing to hide. Some of the most memorable moments in my life have been fishing with my family & I will dedicate as much effort as possible to ensuring we are able to enjoy more in the future.

Regards Scotto

[Chris Ryan]

So you have been in QLD 4 years, not participated in one debate about rec fishing. Nothing when we were fighting for Moreton Bay issues, nothing when the election for federal and state were on when we were fighting for our voice to be heard. Where was Scott Mitchell then.

Then all of a sudden where you have an issue with local commercial fisherman in the Great Sandy Straights we get a very strong push and very vocal in your support of a system based on a model from NSW which is still not the best system currently in use in Australia.

For someone so passionate as it clearly shows, where have you been?

[Stuart]

Scott

I can tell you, I’m sick and tired of paying high taxes. I’m sick and tired of paying high grocery prices, over inflated petrol prices, high Medicare. I pay a huge rego bill every year but I still have to put up with pot holes, traffic jams, bad road planning. Where is the rego money going? Isn’t it meant to back into roads?…I don’t see it. I pay tax on bait, tackle, even driving to the boat ramp and yet you want me to pay for a ridiculous licence to go and enjoy a past time that nearly the whole population participates in on a weekly basis.

QLD is the highest taxed state in Australia, and you want me to pay to go fishing…Go back to Nimbin mate? And I couldn’t give a rat’s arse if the money goes into a transparent trust account or if it’s been working in NSW for the last 15 years. If you love the system in NSW so much then move back to NSW and take your idea with you. In case you don’t know, Game and sport fishing clubs do more for fishing than what you or many would realise. Clubs in SEQ organised FADS to be deployed at no charge for you and every one to enjoy... They also fight tooth and nail for our rights, while most of what they do you simply don’t hear about. If you support your local club I think you will get better results, they will do seminars for free; even hold education nights at no charge. Education is the answer not another fee.

This sound’s a bit like the ETS, charge a tax and this will miraculously fix the atmosphere. Its funny how you put forward your opinion but soon as you get negative feedback you label those as having blinkers on. Perhaps you have the blinkers on or maybe your just arrogant. There has been some good points made both for and against, but I’m sick of paying out my hard earned lettuce to an inept government that is more concerned with retaining power. If the government brings this in then I can assure you I won’t be paying, and no I won’t come around. I would rather go to jail than pay some ridiculous fee.

Stu

[finga]

Go back to Nimbin mate?
Stu
Maaaate, leave Nimbin out of this.
My mum was born in Nimbin. True story ;D

[Scott Mitchell]

So you have been in QLD 4 years, not participated in one debate about rec fishing. Nothing when we were fighting for Moreton Bay issues, nothing when the election for federal and state were on when we were fighting for our voice to be heard. Where was Scott Mitchell then.

Then all of a sudden where you have an issue with local commercial fisherman in the Great Sandy Straights we get a very strong push and very vocal in your support of a system based on a model from NSW which is still not the best system currently in use in Australia.

For someone so passionate as it clearly shows, where have you been?

I was as active as possible on the Great Sandy Straights Marine park - I did fill in a number of partitions in regards to the Morton bay marine park sent to me via Leeanne Payne. I have attended most of the consultation meetings with DPI&F in Hervey Bay along with my own submissions, I am the president of the Fraser Coast Fish Stocking association ..........

Oh yeah - I had to train in a new industry for employment, I have built & sold a home & moved 5 times in 3 years !

I also manged a little fishing in that time as well ;D

Give it break Chris - If you stick with facts you'll never come unstuck ;)

Regards Scotto

[ShaneC]

I absolutely cannot agree with a user pays fishing licencing system, it's an outrage!!!!

We pay rego on our cars to get to the ramp
We pay rego on our boat and trailer that allow us to go fishing (how they can justify the price of this is beyond me)
We pay 10% GST on bait, fuel, tackle, rods, reels, food, drinks, sunscreen that we use when we go fishing
We paid 10% GST on the cars and boats that we have bought to go fishing
We pay our $60 odd a year to support a rescue organisation +GST

From the moment we decide to go fishing, we are contributing to the fishery with the money we spend that goes straight to govt coffers. The fact that they would rather spend the cash on other things is irrelevant. This is on top of the money we spent on rates and everything else that they sting us for. I think we, as a whole, pay enough to go fishing!!!

Whats the next step mate?? When the fishing does not improve, are you going to want to limit the number of licences being made available so you might catch a fish?? I know, maybe we could then have some kind of logbook that limits the amount of fish that we can catch in a year.... awesome!! You are dreaming if you think the introduction of a licence system is going to stop there....

If they want to improve facilities, they can bloody well improve them with the regos and GST that they have already gotten out of me!! I dont care if its 30c a year or $30, why should I have to put more of my hard earned cash into the hands of others so they can spend it on my behalf on sh#t that I dont want??

*Takes deep breath and goes to make coffee*

Rant over, cheers

[mangomick]

& moved 5 times in 3 years !

Regards Scotto

reckon the neighbours would have been bloody pleased to see you go;D ;D

[Scott Mitchell]

reckon the neighbours would have been bloody pleased to see you go;D ;D

You have to maintain a sense of humour Mick :P

Regards Scotto

[fanplastico]

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. What happens if this is introduced & then goes pear-shaped. Once we start paying this fee it will be forever.

I would rather put my money into lobby groups like Ecofishers. If I don't like what they are doing I can stop contributing.

Plastico

[blueline]

sorry if someone has allready said it (as i havnt read all the posts)
i feel we as rec fishers need to do something run and managed by rec fishers, otherwise the gov will bring it in and then it will be just anouther tax, but run by rec fishers it will be more like a union were we can all fight for our rights and if the gov,green groups try to pick on us then we can stand together and fight as one.

[scoota]

From what I've read on this extensive post and with a little research, the introduction of a fishing licence is not going to improve the weekend family fishing outing to the stage where they have a better than average chance to catch a feed.[IMO]
Those days are gone......or are they????
We have all heard of stories or even experienced days of drifting around your favourite river, creek, ocean, etc..catching a feed but those days are becoming less and less with more population, more rec fishos and fishing technology.
We need solutions to sustain fish and there habitats. Scientific studies of our waterways and implementation of their recommendations be it closures, zones, size and bag limits whatever, suck it up and deal with it. I want kids to be able to fish in the future and catch something and if that costs me $30.00 a year for that investment then where do I sign!!!
No use having a flash ramp and plenty of parking if there are no fish!!!
On the other hand sitting on your hands expecting this govenment or the next to make non-political decisions in the interest of our waterways, we are kidding ourselves...
No licence, no politics, just factual scientific research combined with studies from the good people at the DPI&F and dare I say it, the support of the greens:o

Scoota...

[Chris Ryan]

I was as active as possible on the Great Sandy Straights Marine park - I did fill in a number of partitions in regards to the Morton bay marine park sent to me via Leeanne Payne. I have attended most of the consultation meetings with DPI&F in Hervey Bay along with my own submissions, I am the president of the Fraser Coast Fish Stocking association ..........

Oh yeah - I had to train in a new industry for employment, I have built & sold a home & moved 5 times in 3 years !

I also manged a little fishing in that time as well ;D

Give it break Chris - If you stick with facts you'll never come unstuck ;)

Regards Scotto

Not sure what you mean by sticking with facts Scott. It was merely a post asking a couple of questions of which you answered and gave more proof of your passion for rec fishing and your background. For that I say thanks.

[Mike Delisser]

Scott (or anyone) didn't the WA Gov bring in rec fishing licences on the 1st July this year? How is it set up?
Maybe there already was one of sorts I'm not sure but I know they got a boat fishing licence over there now.

If we were to have one in Qld I would much rather have Rec Licence that was initiated and designed by anglers over any Rec Licence that was initiated and designed by a Stste Government.
Cheers

[dayoo]

Scott (or anyone) didn't the WA Gov bring in rec fishing licences on the 1st July this year? How is it set up?
Maybe there already was one of sorts I'm not sure but I know they got a boat fishing licence over there now.

If we were to have one in Qld I would much rather have Rec Licence that was initiated and designed by anglers over any Rec Licence that was initiated and designed by a Stste Government.
Cheers

I have read the WA Fishing Licences and fees and they are expensive if you want to fish offshore for snapper (scalefish). You require a $30 boat licence (per person per annum) plus a $150 demersal scalefish licence (per person per annum) These licences are a revenue raising exercise and I know that Queensland Fisheries have looked at the WA licencing model.

As one of the recreational reps on the snapper working group I will be working hard to minimise any licencing or fees that may be proposed.

Watch this forum after 29 September for update on the snapper proposals in Queensland.

Cheers
Barry

[ShaneC]

Barry,

You are spot on mate..... brace yourself, a similar thing is being thrown about by the brains trust as we speak. I have heard it from someone in the trust, none of them agree with it, but it is going to be put out there.

Laugh, giggle, tell me I am full of shit, but wait for me to say 'I told you so'.

It will primarily involve a licencing fee to catch reef fish, but they are going to concentrate on Snaps.

Shane

[PinHead]

if that is the case Shane then I would have to ask what they base this on?
What are the credentials of the scientists that conducted the research and what are the results. If that is not produced then they are just grasping at straws and our wallets.
An absolute joke and abomination following on from the green zone crap they threw at us.
I don't know who constitutes the panel that makes these rules but they are obviously incompetent and full of the proverbial.

More money taken in taxes and the results will be: nothing from what is already happening. I cannot put here what I really think if this is the case.

PS..I can;t catch a legal one of them anyway so any I jag will just be a byproduct of bream fishing...now what happens then? I fish for bream..catch a legal snapper..just toss it back even if it is dead..WOW..that's really going to help the fish stocks.

How about these geniuses that introduce these crap rules divert some funds to increased inspections. I have been fishing for about 41 years off and on..in that time I have had fisheries inspect the catch in 1971 and then a couple of months back..twice in 41 years..that is real inspections at their best.

[dayoo]

Pinhead,

In WA you will need a boat fishing licence and a demersal fishing licence (total $180) even if you want to go fishing offshore on a charter boat. Check out Fisheries Western Australia website under heading New Recreational Fishing Arrangements.

A scary thought which no doubt has put the $$$ signs in the eyes of Fisheries Departments throught Australia particularly as they all have received funding cutbacks due to the economic situation. The way things are going we might have to pay Councils to launch at boat ramps and pay to park the trailer there. You might even have to pay to go to the toilet on your own boat (effulent tax) and tag any number twos.

I might start a new thread in two weeks when I know more on what is proposed.

Cheers
Barry

[PinHead]

Barry..I am not in WA..so that does not matter.

I will go way back to what I have said before on here...with the introduction of GST..the minerals boom..and various other sources this State Govt has had the biggest influx of funds ever in the history of the State.

As we all know, there has been very little spent on infrastructure until recently.
This State now has a massive debt.
Where has all the money gone?

We, as citizens of this State, are being taxed left right and centre for everything..ambulance levies, fire levies, water, increased electricity charges and the list goes on.

Where has all the money gone? The only answer I can think of is massive beaucratic waste and Govt mismanagement...and now we are the scapegoats. Personally, I have had a gutful of it.

[Mike Delisser]

Only today the WA State Gov backed down a little and dropped the most expensive part of their new fishing licence. But now all anglers will paying for a $40 fishing licence plus another $30 if you intend to fish from a boat. As a trade off for dropping their proposed $160 reef fishing licence the total bag limit for your demersal catch (which includes snapper) will be 2 and the min size for snapper will soon go to 50cm.
More info can be found here
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/government-backdown-on-new-fishing-fees-20090916-fr2t.html

And don't think a change of Gov in Qld will protect us here, the WA licences are being implemented by the only Lib/Nat State Government in the country. Have a read of their "Rec Fishing & Boating commitment" they released just before their last election. It all sounds very familiar to Qlders.
The 2008 WA Lib/Nat pre election rec fishing commitment can be found here
http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=141&limitstart=20

IMO, I believe anglers have the choice of acting soon and being the drivers, or waiting and be the victims.
Cheers
Mike

[dayoo]

Pinhead, I am using the WA example to illustrate what other State Fisheries may be contemplating. I too have had a gutfull and will be expressing my views to Queensland Fisheries at a meeting in two weeks.

Say hi from me to Craig on "Baitrunner" when you do your next trip.

Cheers
Barry

[dayoo]

Only today the WA State Gov backed down a little and dropped the most expensive part of their new fishing licence. But now all anglers will paying for a $40 fishing licence plus another $30 if you intend to fish from a boat. As a trade off for dropping their proposed $160 reef fishing licence the total bag limit for your demersal catch (which includes snapper) will be 2 and the min size for snapper will soon go to 50cm.
More info can be found here
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/government-backdown-on-new-fishing-fees-20090916-fr2t.html

And don't think a change of Gov in Qld will protect us here, the WA licences are being implemented by the only Lib/Nat State Government in the country. Have a read of their "Rec Fishing & Boating commitment" they released just before their last election. It all sounds very familiar to Qlders.
The 2008 WA Lib/Nat pre election rec fishing commitment can be found here
http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=141&limitstart=20

IMO, I believe anglers have the choice of acting soon and being the drivers, or waiting and be the victims.
Cheers
Mike

Mike,

Thanks for this info. The recreational reps on the RRFF working group are on the ball and we have no intention of being the victims. It is much better to stop unreasonable regulations when they are at the proposal stage.

Cheers
Barry

[TheRealAndy]

if that is the case Shane then I would have to ask what they base this on?
What are the credentials of the scientists that conducted the research and what are the results. If that is not produced then they are just grasping at straws and our wallets.
An absolute joke and abomination following on from the green zone crap they threw at us.
I don't know who constitutes the panel that makes these rules but they are obviously incompetent and full of the proverbial.

More money taken in taxes and the results will be: nothing from what is already happening. I cannot put here what I really think if this is the case.

PS..I can;t catch a legal one of them anyway so any I jag will just be a byproduct of bream fishing...now what happens then? I fish for bream..catch a legal snapper..just toss it back even if it is dead..WOW..that's really going to help the fish stocks.

How about these geniuses that introduce these crap rules divert some funds to increased inspections. I have been fishing for about 41 years off and on..in that time I have had fisheries inspect the catch in 1971 and then a couple of months back..twice in 41 years..that is real inspections at their best.

One thing I have always said is that the DPI is under resourced. I have talked at length with the staff that work in boating and fisheries patrol and they just continue on doing the best they can given what they have to work with. From memory, they have 6 crews working pretty much the whole of moreton bay, including all the rivers and creeks. I beleive they also have a further 2 crews in redland bay (or somewhere down that way).

What we now have though, is a bunch of new EPA inspectors in the water. They are doing NOTHING for the fisheries. All they are doing is revenue raising. Why not piss them off and put all the EPA cash into hiring more qualified DPI staff and hand the boats over to the DPI. Same for the GBRMPA.

I will say one thing about the snapper assessment (RRFF review) is that at least this is being handled by the DPI, not a green vote. Its not going to be like the green zones because they do have some valid scientific data, albeit not enough to make a case in my opinion. I do beleive that the data they have is not credible in the eyes of the scientific community but at least they are appear to be listening rather than just implementing a blanket ban. In the case of the EPA and the marine parks they did not consult the community, they just lectured us.

[Scott Mitchell]

All right team - I have some figure on the what the NSW general license system raises :-

06/07 - $10.6MIL
07/08 - $10.7MIL
08/09 - $13.4MIL

Remember that this is ON TOP OF RENEW PROVIDED FROM PUBLIC REVENEW TO RUN THE DEPARTMENT - AND IS MANAGED BY THE LICENCE EXPEDITURE COMMITEES as previously disclosed.

The break down on NSW License sales periods is :-

10% (3yr)
30% (1r)
20% (1mth)
40% (3day)
*These % do not change much year to year.

Some more good reading to be had @ http://www.recfish.com.au/projects/pdf/Strategic%20Revenue%20Options%20for%20Recreational %20Fishing%20Focus%20Group%20-%2021%20January%202009.pdf

"Apparently" 8.75 million is allocated to Qld DPI&F from public revenue currently - with an additional 2.75 million from taxes on rego etc ;)

Imagine if we could raise an additional $8+ million from a general recreational angling licences - AND have a say in exactly how it is spent via a similar system as NSW as "proposed" 8-)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

One thing I have always said is that the DPI is under resourced. I have talked at length with the staff that work in boating and fisheries patrol and they just continue on doing the best they can given what they have to work with. From memory, they have 6 crews working pretty much the whole of moreton bay, including all the rivers and creeks. I believe they also have a further 2 crews in redland bay (or somewhere down that way).



Imagine if we could raise an additional $8+ million & have control over how it was spent IE: In-depth , independent research for one item ;)

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

Imagine if we could raise an additional $8+ million & have control over how it was spent IE: In-depth , independent research for one item ;)

Regards Scotto

that has already been done and the Govt ignored it.

[Scott Mitchell]

that has already been done and the Govt ignored it.


The key in that "quote" is - Have control over how it is spent ;)

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

the people that did the research did have control over how their money was spent. MBAA

[Scott Mitchell]

Who consigned the research & what was the aim ?

Regards Scotto

[Black_Rat]

Greg - My ONLY MOTIVATION is ensuring our fisheries are managed sustainably for the future. I am a pretty motivated angler - have been all my life.

I have served as president of the Wollongong Sport Fishing club at the age of 18, NSW ANSA State recorder, President of the Trout Festival Committee, committee member of the Monaro acclimatisation society, member of ACORF for NSW DPI&F , President of the Fraser Coast Fish Stocking Association.

I have always tried to give back to the sport in which I dedicate ever spare moment to enjoy. I am sick of seeing our fisheries miss managed & our access rights taken away.

I do not believe the government is capable of supplying enough no-strings-attached funding to do the job - So I am in favour of taking control of the main management via a user pays system. To date the best model "I" have seen is the NSW example.

I agree the NT appear to have done it one their own - but I am not confident that the Qld government is as capable.

This is a debate - And one which I believe may determine the future of the Qld recreational fishery.

Regards Scotto

Scotto,

Based on the introduction of the system in NSW and it's value to the recreational angler, what was/is the stance of the NSW Fishing Clubs Association today ?

Can you comment on this ?

Damo.

[Scott Mitchell]

Scotto,

Based on the introduction of the system in NSW and it's value to the recreational angler, what was/is the stance of the NSW Fishing Clubs Association today ?

Can you comment on this ?

Damo.

Unfortunately - I am not sure what the NSW armature fishing clubs association stance is on the license today ? I know that they had similar concerns to those raised here initially IE - the government would take control of the spending & the amount would increase BUT these concerns have NOT occurred ;)

I do know that ANSA & the GFAA both where in favour & supported the licence & specific projects that it allowed/funded IE tagging projects, Angel rings, FADS etc

I also have a number of mates in the bass & bream tournament circuit - who also support the license system. The majority of who fish in the RFH's regularly & have seen the HUGE improvements that come from removing ALL commercial fishing from an estuary ;)

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

Who consigned the research & what was the aim ?

Regards Scotto

you can read the MBAA results and submissions here. They prepared their submission based on their own research with their own money and still the Govt totally ignored it.

That was only in 2007..I thought that since you had been here for 4 years and want to make changes that effect all Qld anglers that you would have read all these types of items.

[TimiBoy]

NSW license 58 41.73%
Qld management OK 66 47.48%
No, there are better ideas 15 10.79%

Seems about 58% say no to the NSW license system. Time to find a different tack, Scott. How about you distill the ideas in this thread, and try a new setup.

Cheers,

Tim

[NAGG]

There seems to be a lot of negative feel about what the government would or would not do with the licence fees (lets forget that angle for the sake of the debate)

I'll raise it again

Is the SIP (Stocked impoundment Permit) working on our dams ????

after all ..... its just a freshwater fishing licence ::) However it was set up along a bit of a similar line of putting the majority of the funds straight back into the fisheries.

It works & I have never heard anyone grizzle about it.

We threw up our arms about a licence in NSW many years ago ...... It was introduced , we paid our fee ......... & the fishing has improved considerably after a few years.

These days there is no commercial fishing in many of our estuaries (a direct result of the buyback using funds raised from licencing)

Its no myth that the fishing has improved considerably in those systems ...... including Botany bay on Sydney's doorstep , where they have a successful mulloway stocking program.

Anglers in NSW actually believe that there has been obvious improvements ....... sure it was unpalatable at first - but the system is reasonably well run...... & yields benefits.

I like what you have done with the SIP Scheme & would like to see those type of benefits poured into other fisheries .... If it can happen only via a new licence 8-)

Chris

[mod5]

Who consigned the research & what was the aim ?

Regards Scotto

http://www.vision6.com.au/download/files/08120/402315/Report_Executive_Summary_and_Stakeholder_Section_O nly.pdf

[deepfried]

There seems to be a lot of negative feel about what the government would or would not do with the licence fees (lets forget that angle for the sake of the debate)

I'll raise it again

Is the SIP (Stocked impoundment Permit) working on our dams ????

after all ..... Its just a freshwater fishing licence ::) However it was set up along a bit of a similar line of putting the majority of the funds straight back into the fisheries.

It works & I have never heard anyone grizzle about it.

We threw up our arms about a licence in NSW many years ago ...... It was introduced , we paid our fee ......... & the fishing has improved considerably after a few years.

These days there is no commercial fishing in many of our estuaries (a direct result of the buyback using funds raised from licencing)

Its no myth that the fishing has improved considerably in those systems ...... Including Botany bay on Sydney's doorstep , where they have a successful mulloway stocking program.

Anglers in NSW actually believe that there has been obvious improvements ....... Sure it was unpalatable at first - but the system is reasonably well run...... & yields benefits.

I like what you have done with the SIP Scheme & would like to see those type of benefits poured into other fisheries .... If it can happen only via a new licence 8-)

Chris


I agree Chris. The license fee was a shock to begin with but it does work, people just have to look and see the rewards at place like Botany Bay, Lake Macquarie and many rivers systems up and down the coast. In the northern rivers some of the license fees have gone into stocking and creating habitat and fish ladders for eastern cod. This fish was on the brink of a total collapse but will hopefully be a catch and release target in the very near future. Thats a very real benefit. Sure there should be enough taxes collected for it to be done aready but it wasnt and wont be, other things have a higher priority.
I dont know why most of the debate here is about a corrupt gov and nit picking around the debate and not the pros and cons about what can be achieved. Really in the end it sounds like it is going to be implemented in some form in Qld, so why not support it and be in charge of it. Perhaps the debate should be who will be the rec fishers representative for it and will it be independant from the gov which ever party they may be from.

[Scott Mitchell]

http://www.vision6.com.au/download/files/08120/402315/Report_Executive_Summary_and_Stakeholder_Section_O nly.pdf

Thanks for the link - Not knowing the area - what was the over all feedback on this work ?

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

you can read the MBAA results and submissions here. They prepared their submission based on their own research with their own money and still the Govt totally ignored it.

That was only in 2007..I thought that since you had been here for 4 years and want to make changes that effect all Qld anglers that you would have read all these types of items.

Fortunately - I have a life too ;)

We all tend to take note of issues in your local area - this is why we need a SINGLE group with the resources to cover the entire state. This is what Recfish & Sunfish are there - BUT again if they do not get the support - they can't fix the problems.

The License expenditure committees in NSW have delegates from zones across the state in an effort to address regional issues for this reason.

The SIPs program is set up very similarly ( except I believe the 25% admin contribution is excessive ) - The government have not back doored us on that ?

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

NSW license 58 41.73%
Qld management OK 66 47.48%
No, there are better ideas 15 10.79%

Seems about 58% say no to the NSW license system. Time to find a different tack, Scott. How about you distill the ideas in this thread, and try a new setup.

Cheers,

Tim

Far from being a conclusive result Chris ;)

The same Poll on two other Qld based web sites actually puts the majority ( 60-40 & 95% ) in favour of a general recreational angling license - Fishntales & a SW fly fishing web site. It is interesting how different user groups see their resource in the future.

I do believe however that ALL the information & details to make an informed decision are in this Poll now - if you take the time to read through it.

I will leave it up for a few months as initially intended as I believe you need to allow time for anglers to make their decisions :P

Remember that the Poll is only a proposal AND if in favour of a license IT IS BASED ON THE NSW MODEL as outlines through out this POLL. I am still NOT interested in how the Queensland Government Can't / Won,t allow it - ONLY Vote in favour if you would like to see a system BASED ON THE NSW model implamented - if given the opportunity ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

I agree Chris. The license fee was a shock to begin with but it does work, people just have to look and see the rewards at place like Botany Bay, Lake Macquarie and many rivers systems up and down the coast. In the northern rivers some of the license fees have gone into stocking and creating habitat and fish ladders for eastern cod. This fish was on the brink of a total collapse but will hopefully be a catch and release target in the very near future. Thats a very real benefit. Sure there should be enough taxes collected for it to be done aready but it wasnt and wont be, other things have a higher priority.

I dont know why most of the debate here is about a corrupt gov and nit picking around the debate and not the pros and cons about what can be achieved. Really in the end it sounds like it is going to be implemented in some form in Qld, so why not support it and be in charge of it. Perhaps the debate should be who will be the rec fishers representative for it and will it be independant from the gov which ever party they may be from.



Well stated - Thanks

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

well Scott..go and ear bash your local Member about it..they are the only ones that can do anything about it.

[shayned]

some food for thought:

NSW scheme from their 2007-2008 figures:
Total available - $8.4 million dollars.
The total available was made up of allocations from the trust and amounts carried forward from the previous year.

Now NSW has a population of approx 7.04 million people.
Qld has a population of approx. 4.34 million people.

So..the NSW fishing fee equates to approx 84 cents per head of population
Then we use that figure for the Qld population and we have a total of $3.65 million available...less than half what NSW has.

NSW has a total coastline (including islands) of 2137 kilometres.
Qld has a total coastline (including islands) of 13347 kilometres.

NSW fees then equate to $3930.74 per kilometre of coastline
Qlds approximated fees would equate to only $273.47 per kilometre of coastline.

Now how big would a license fee have to be to equal NSW's? We would have to pay $1.93 for every person in the state as opposed to NSW's 84 cents and that would still only give us $629.00 per kilometre of coastline.

(This is based on the figures from the summaries of NSW DPI)

( I think my maths is correct but it is Saturday night and I should be away fishing)

Nice bit of maths Greg, but I think you needed to include participation rates in there somewhere.

[shayned]

well Scott..go and ear bash your local Member about it..they are the only ones that can do anything about it.

Unfortunately this isn't very good advice, our elected political representatives get earbashed continuously day in and day out, the real trick is to offer solutions and stand out in the crowd. How do I know this? I quietly and successfully work at developing fishery projects every week of the year, year in year out.

One of the best things you could do is take the time spent earbashing and join and help a group trying to make changes. Whether this is Sunfish, Ecofishers, ANSFA or the Yorkies Knob Sports Fishing Association it doesn't really matter. If you don't like how you are represented stand up, get involved personally and make the changes.

It can be done.:)

[PinHead]

Unfortunately this isn't very good advice, our elected political representatives get earbashed continuously day in and day out, the real trick is to offer solutions and stand out in the crowd. How do I know this? I quietly and successfully work at developing fishery projects every week of the year, year in year out.

One of the best things you could do is take the time spent earbashing and join and help a group trying to make changes. Whether this is Sunfish, Ecofishers, ANSFA or the Yorkies Knob Sports Fishing Association it doesn't really matter. If you don't like how you are represented stand up, get involved personally and make the changes.

It can be done.:)

I tried that Shayne..but a 3 1/4 hour round trip on a Wednesday night for a meeting is a bit much.

[PinHead]

have a read of thse releases..from 1994 and see what has happened since then..not much..but the report and legislation told us that all was good in the world of fishing..well sweet bugger all got implemented except for the increase in rego which is, in essence, another license to use your boat.

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/policies/Fishing%20-%20Recreational%20-%20Image4.pdf

[kingie]

As someone who lives in Queensland and pays for a 3 year NSW General Fishing licence that I don't use much, also I pay for a New Zealand trout fishing licence for one week a year and a NZ duck shooting license for one weekend the concept of a Qld general fishing licence is no problem and would be welcomed provided the fee is not going to consolidated revenue but into the improvement of the fishery.

There are no reds under the beds, no sinister government motives, everything costs money, it's like having health insurance for the fishery as opposed to the public health system, if you want the best and want it now you have to pay.

There is no other way than the user pays and those who pay have the say.

Kingie

[mangomick]

As someone who lives in Queensland and pays for a 3 year NSW General Fishing licence that I don't use much, also I pay for a New Zealand trout fishing licence for one week a year and a NZ duck shooting license for one weekend the concept of a Qld general fishing licence is no problem and would be welcomed provided the fee is not going to consolidated revenue but into the improvement of the fishery.

There are no reds under the beds, no sinister government motives, everything costs money, it's like having health insurance for the fishery as opposed to the public health system, if you want the best and want it now you have to pay.

There is no other way than the user pays and those who pay have the say.

Kingie

I think its already been pointed out just how much the recreational fishermen is already paying in taxes and rego etc for the "privalage" to fish.
Its about time governments were more accountable for the way in which they spend the public purse.
Go sit down and work out the GST on you boat safety gear motor and trailer for a start then add up what you pay in rego then all you tackle then your fuel and bait and ice and
Why bother...Your right.....theres no reds under the beds or sinister government motives............ just fools in the forums

[Lovey80]

Scott,

you are wasting your breath and defeating your own argument in even suggesting we support sunfish. Sunfish lost most of our support (certainly mine) when they caved into the Gov't on the Greenzones in Moreton bay. They showed right then and there that they are puppets of the Labor Gov't. With this Snapper Stock assessment it seems they have very little power also. All these BS meetings where good blokes like Bill and Barry are standing beside them to give us a voice and still Fisheries are trying to Shaft us. Sunfish is a toothless tiger being fed by Bligh and Fisheries know it. When an organisation that is completely independant like ECO has the funding and the real research to start screaming facts from the Rooftops then and only then will Fisheries have to stand up and take notice. I am all for a RFL but only on the basis that ECO get the funds.

Cheers

Chris

[kingie]

Hey MANGOMICK
I know exactly how much my fishing costs and I've got enough of a brain to know all that money Rego,GST etc is already spent by the Government and trying to get them to give it to the causes I support is as easy as teaching a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and annoys the pig.


If "most"the money for a Licence goes to causes I support then it's not a tax, it's an investment.

Enough said.

KINGIE

[TheRealAndy]

I heard Rachael Nolan say the other day that all rego from boats goes to boating facilities plus the government chucks in more.

[Scott Mitchell]

I heard Rachael Nolan say the other day that all rego from boats goes to boating facilities plus the government chucks in more.

Yep - That's what they say ::)

BUT only around 10mill is currently being used to run DPI&F - so how much TOTAL revenue is being raised ????

This is the problem - we'll never know :-/

IT HAS TO GO INTO TRASPARENT TRUST ACCOUNTS - No compromises ;)

Regards Scotto

[deepfried]

I think its already been pointed out just how much the recreational fishermen is already paying in taxes and rego etc for the "privalage" to fish.
Its about time governments were more accountable for the way in which they spend the public purse.
Go sit down and work out the GST on you boat safety gear motor and trailer for a start then add up what you pay in rego then all you tackle then your fuel and bait and ice and
Why bother...Your right.....theres no reds under the beds or sinister government motives............ Just fools in the forums

I am starting to understand things a bit better now ::) , the taxes etc collected from tackle etc should be spent on fishing for related purposes. OK so what are they going to spend the taxes collected from condoms on ? ;D ;D free s_x if you buy over 10 packets. How about toothpaste, i spose the taxes from toothpaste should entitle us to free dental care following this principle. I could go on but it would be pointless.

[Black_Rat]

If certain people had the support of a lobby group ? without political fuding then and only then would we be united :(

Hence our unity with ECOfishers NSW ;)

Damo.

[PinHead]

As someone who lives in Queensland and pays for a 3 year NSW General Fishing licence that I don't use much, also I pay for a New Zealand trout fishing licence for one week a year and a NZ duck shooting license for one weekend the concept of a Qld general fishing licence is no problem and would be welcomed provided the fee is not going to consolidated revenue but into the improvement of the fishery.

There are no reds under the beds, no sinister government motives, everything costs money, it's like having health insurance for the fishery as opposed to the public health system, if you want the best and want it now you have to pay.

There is no other way than the user pays and those who pay have the say.

Kingie

user pays is a joke..a catchcry from various Govts so why don't they carry through with it on everything. If you are keen on the user pays principle then I guess some of us should pay lower taxes and some should pay a lot more..I don't use public education system or public health system..can I have my money back please?????

[PinHead]

MY final comments on a fishing license.

Fishing, for most of us , is a recreational activity. It is not a right but a privilege to partake of this activity. We all have an obligation to preserve the environment we fish in without undue pressure from others or the Govt.

The Govt. is a representative body elected by us. They work for us not the opposite. Their role is to provide the necessary services that a modern society like ours requires. They also have a role to ensure the flora and fauna at sustainable levels for all to enjoy without fear or favour. Alas, this is not the case.

Lately, our Govts of all persuasions have lead us down a path of so called doom and gloom yet they have not provided leadership nor infrastructure to ensure that they have carried out the duties they have sworn to do.

Qld, by only having a Unicameral legislature is bordering on totalitarianism. They introduce legislation at whim and produce the spin to make it sound like they are doing us a favour. eg paying Bernie Fraser 100k for 6 weeks to convince the unions that the sell off of Govt assets is beneficial.

I believe that pursuing a fishing license is being acquiescent to the Govt. You are telling them that you understand that they are incompetent. They have failed to meet their obligations as duly elected representatives of the people. That they are incompetent yet that is okay as we will all chip in a few bucks to help out. Why? They already have our taxes and should be using them in the correct manner.

Where is a Winston Smith when you desperately need him ???

My alternative: pressure our elected representatives to carry out the work they were elected to do..if not then resign now and call a by election.
Society these days seems very apathetic to letting the pollies know how they feel. Anyone remember the Vietnam War demonstrations..people letting the Govt know how they felt.
How about the union marches in the Joh era..people letting the Govt know how they felt.
Franklin River marches..people letting the Govt know how they felt and the birth of the Greens.

not any more..everyone seems meek and mild and does not seem to care and it quite happy to be walked over. 'Tis a pity.

[Redspeckle]

I heard Rachael Nolan say the other day that all rego from boats goes to boating facilities plus the government chucks in more.

Well I find that very hard to believe just more goverment spin if the was the case we would have world class boating ramps and channels be constally dredged instead of being shallow all the time and well lilt/mark beacons around Queensland waterways the goverment isn't chucking any more in its going straight into goverment pockets to fund the other thing can't find funding for what a joke >:(


Mitch

[mangomick]

Governments must love blokes who want to rally around for whatever cause they feel is worthwhile and show them where to grab a bit of extra cash.
They mismanage the vast amounts that they collect then try to grab more through licensing, tarifs, stamp duties,fees and god knows how many others.

Labor minister Bill Shorten was talking today of a national disability insurance scheme.
Apparently the government would like to spend more on those people who have a disability but unfortunately they just don't have the money to do so .I imagine that it will go along the lines of the compulsory third party insurance. They will be spending vast amounts of money soon on a study on how to do this

There's no need for anyone (yes Scott I mean you) to approach the government with new ideas on how to rip the last few bucks from the poor old working man....they'll get to you soon enough

[Bowser]

If you guys continue to believe that we are living in Utopia then we do need to start practising euthenasia. The NSW licence was introduced in a very different economic and political climate.Labor wasn't selling it';s soul for green votes and the state wasn't bankrupt.

Bligh must love you offering yourselves for a greater reaming then we are already getting. If there was a gurantee that the funds would go to fishing then maybe, and only maybe it is worth considering. The truth is that the funds would dissapear into Anna's advertising budget so fast that she would have finnished her smoke, had a shower and left before you even thought that the fun had begun!

[Mike Delisser]

So Bowser and others, how do you recon the freshwater fishing permit (Stocked Impoundment Permit) has been going?
I'll be renewing mine for the 9th year in a couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it's still the same or close to the same price it was back in 2000 as well. Actually I wouldn't mind it going up a little soon as I know over 75% of it goes straight to the hard working volunteer stocking groups to buy more fish for us to catch.

[mangomick]

So Bowser and others, how do you recon the freshwater fishing permit (Stocked Impoundment Permit) has been going?
I'll be renewing mine for the 9th year in a couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it's still the same or close to the same price it was back in 2000 as well. Actually I wouldn't mind it going up a little soon as I know over 75% of it goes straight to the hard working volunteer stocking groups to buy more fish for us to catch.

Dont know what your talking about mate. My closest freshwater is Awoonga Dam and for that I dont need a permit.
I work hard to keep the wheels of industry rolling and they work hard to keep fishing as an enjoyable past time for every body.
The people in Gladstone must reckon its worth keeping Awoonga Dam stocked and free to fish to keep there workforce happy and to help drag a few of those poor famillies who cant afford a licence to fish in the dams in the SE quarter;)

[Mike Delisser]

Dont know what your talking about mate.

Yeh Water Board & Port A did a great job up there Mick, let's hope one of them dosn't decide to concentrate on their "core" business any time soon hey ::).
BTW I hope you leave me a couple of barra as I'll be there myself in 2 weeks.

[bevnarch]

keep chipping away scotto;) a rec fishing licence will come to qld one day ,,,lets just hope we fisho,s are in control of it

i would gladly pay 30 bucks a year to stop the netting of our creeks,rivers and bays ,,,,,,,,,arch

[Scott Mitchell]

So Bowser and others, how do you recon the freshwater fishing permit (Stocked Impoundment Permit) has been going?
I'll be renewing mine for the 9th year in a couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it's still the same or close to the same price it was back in 2000 as well. Actually I wouldn't mind it going up a little soon as I know over 75% of it goes straight to the hard working volunteer stocking groups to buy more fish for us to catch.

Exactly right , The government hasn't milked the SIPS program - Although I do believe the 25% admin component could be reduced to 10% ;)

If it works with the SIPs program - why couldn't it work on a larger scale ?

I know where there's another working model to back this up :P

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

I keep hearing that "The government & Qld DPI&F do not have a general recreational angling license on their agenda at present " ?

Now why would that be ?

Why would a government/department NOT want a user group to contribute directly towards managing the resource & aid in funding better research to sustainably manage it into the future - when they are struggling for funding ?

Stab in the dark - They WILL LOOSE CONTROL :P

So many fish - So little funding - Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

The people in Gladstone must reckon its worth keeping Awoonga Dam stocked and free to fish to keep there workforce happy and to help drag a few of those poor famillies who cant afford a licence to fish in the dams in the SE quarter;)



Yeah - Monduran was like a ghost town the last time we visited :P

The Gladstone hatchery has been struggling to produce barra the last three years - facility is in need of an overhaul & management review ;)

Hopefully Kurt has it back on track this year - Scotto

[TimiBoy]

I keep hearing that "The government & Qld DPI&F do not have a general recreational angling license on their agenda at present " ?

Now why would that be ?

Why would a government/department NOT want a user group to contribute directly towards managing the resource & aid in funding better research to sustainably manage it into the future - when they are struggling for funding ?

Stab in the dark - They WILL LOOSE CONTROL :P

So many fish - So little funding - Scotto

Trying to help Recreational Anglers is the last thing on their list when they are addicted to preference deals with the greens, who see us as rapists of the Earth. They also believe it will be viewed as another tax, and given they are within cooee of political suicide anyway, they have been and are avoiding any extra temptations within the electorate to dump them.

Tim

[FNQCairns]

I keep hearing that "The government & Qld DPI&F do not have a general recreational angling license on their agenda at present " ?

Now why would that be ?

Why would a government/department NOT want a user group to contribute directly towards managing the resource & aid in funding better research to sustainably manage it into the future - when they are struggling for funding ?

Stab in the dark - They WILL LOOSE CONTROL :P

So many fish - So little funding - Scotto


There is an element of truth in this but so will the majority (by number not individual effort) of anglers loose.

cheers fnq

[Scott Mitchell]

There is an element of truth in this but so will the majority (by number not individual effort) of anglers loose.

cheers fnq



We WONT LOOSE - If it was set up as ORIGINALLY PROPOSED - Transparent trust accounts, management committees consisting of rec anglers , admin capped at 10% - I know where there is a working model ;)

They will loose control & we will be miles ahead of where we currently are :-*

Regards Scotto

[FNQCairns]

Seriously first a person needs to reference what will be 'miles ahead' then a person needs to counter with reference the real world objections, any of them actually.

It is understood that the NSW model has had very big problems, one in particular (still has), all ignored though, through time these problems have waned not because they where fixed but people got sick of pissing into the wind to complain and are now simply disaffected (socially engineered).

If you can site specificity competent ways of side stepping the MULTITUDE of known problems with 'any licence' then go for it I am all ears.

But so far we have a 'bull at a gate idea' with it's eyes on a china shop and nothing proposed to stop the carnage that will come, quietly of coarse just like in NSW as those who believed they had a voice and dared to speak where simply ignored by the 'bulls' with their personal aim and agendas and lack of basic community responisbility.

How did NSW deal with the collateral damage that resulted? if you cannot understand where I am coming from or cannot even recognise it or have no competent proposal to stop it happening here in QLD, well what can one say? considering you where in the thick of the 'this system' right from the start.

cheers fnq

[Scott Mitchell]

Seriously first a person needs to reference what will be 'miles ahead' then a person needs to counter with reference the real world objections, any of them actually.

It is understood that the NSW model has had very big problems, one in particular (still has), all ignored though, through time these problems have waned not because they where fixed but people got sick of pissing into the wind to complain and are now simply disaffected (socially engineered).

If you can site specificity competent ways of side stepping the MULTITUDE of known problems with 'any licence' then go for it I am all ears.

But so far we have a 'bull at a gate idea' with it's eyes on a china shop and nothing proposed to stop the carnage that will come, quietly of coarse just like in NSW as those who believed they had a voice and dared to speak where simply ignored by the 'bulls' with their personal aim and agendas and lack of basic community responisbility.

How did NSW deal with the collateral damage that resulted? if you cannot understand where I am coming from or cannot even recognise it or have no competent proposal to stop it happening here in QLD, well what can one say? considering you where in the thick of the 'this system' right from the start.

cheers fnq



Can you please outline what these very big problems where ? And I am not aware of any significant collateral damage as a result ?

You can't please all of the people all of the time - but I believe you will get a positive response from the majority of keen anglers in NSW - 15 years later ;)

I'm no bull at a gate - I only started this poll to get an idea of what Ausfish members thought of a "proposed" license "concept" based on the NSW model which I believe is a reasonable system & was involved with from the beginning.

I can see QLD DPI&F are clutching at straws & we're going to get shafted further if we do not take control of the main funding issues ourselves. Or we can lobby teh government to pay up the 35 million promised & disclose where our rego & license fees are going ::)

If you stick with the facts - you'll never go off track - Scotto

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry to go off topic for a second, but while SIPS is in the posts, apparently there is a rumour going around that the SIPS program is could be going through some reviews by SEQwater at the moment. Anyone heard anything about this?

[mangomick]

Now Scott , you have this you beaut system in NSW and our crappy system here in Queensland. So why arent you off catching all these great fish that your preferred system has provided instead of languishing in the heat up here having to battle for a feed of our coastline.
Maybe ,just maybe our system with all its faults is still better than the NSW licensing system that may not be all that it is cracked up to be.
May be ok for the fresh water or estuary creek fishermen but i reckon it would help the off shore fisherman jack $hite.
Maybe if local tourist development bodies want a greater share of the tourist dollar they should be funding fish restocking and putting pressure on the government for change and not expect joe "the fisherman" public to keep shelling out:-*
You only have to look at how many tourist dollars Awoonga Dam has brought to the Gladstone region now it is stocked

[shayned]

Sorry to go off topic for a second, but while SIPS is in the posts, apparently there is a rumour going around that the SIPS program is could be going through some reviews by SEQwater at the moment. Anyone heard anything about this?
I think you will find SIPS is managed out of DPI&F, Seqwater has just released a draft Rec Access Policy regarding access and use of impoundments under their control. It has little detail, each impoundment will be reviewed seperately and policy developed for each area within the draft framework.

There is reference to boating access fees which are on top of SIPS and also to user pays for new developments. As always the devil will be in the details. Give me a bell if you would like some more info.

[Lovey80]

I would also like to know what these major problems with the NSW system are...?

There is reference to boating access fees which are on top of SIPS and also to user pays for new developments. As always the devil will be in the details

That is also an interesting one. What grounds do they have to charge for boating access? Is this for boat ramps or parking grounds etc?

Cheers

Chris

[FNQCairns]

Can you please outline what these very big problems where ? And I am not aware of any significant collateral damage as a result ?

You can't please all of the people all of the time - but I believe you will get a positive response from the majority of keen anglers in NSW - 15 years later ;)

I'm no bull at a gate - I only started this poll to get an idea of what Ausfish members thought of a "proposed" license "concept" based on the NSW model which I believe is a reasonable system & was involved with from the beginning.

I can see QLD DPI&F are clutching at straws & we're going to get shafted further if we do not take control of the main funding issues ourselves. Or we can lobby teh government to pay up the 35 million promised & disclose where our rego & license fees are going ::)

If you stick with the facts - you'll never go off track - Scotto

I know you do not know what the very big problems where/still are, by being there in the thick of it in real time you where a card carrying part of the problem, representing the "keen anglers" which is very apt and was by definition the minority as I mentioned above, grass roots holds no style for those with a personal aim, devoid of community responsibility...the majority is still silenced by all accounts.

How do you propose to enact a one shoe fits all licence considering all that you would know from your time in NSW and what it was...outside of the political spin.

To give you a hand.

How do you propose to protect those in the community that fish very infrequently, spur of the moment or as an adjunct to another infrequent activity?
How do you propose to protect Anglers funds from political raids?
How do you propose to protect anglers funds from intergovernmental research arms, crcs, universities, fishery's principal scientists etc.?
How do you propose to keep wider community zealot organisations of any committees.?
How do you propose to keep the committees as representative of all anglers not just the elite or those whose voice is most favoured.?
How do you propose to ensure all anglers funds are totally protected from being a substitute for treasury core fishery's funding.?
How do you propose to stop the committee from being the ministers/department lackys.?
How will the committee gain the teeth to deal with all corruption/corrupt dealings from from within the department?
What democratic mechanism is available to wind up or cast a no faith vote in the committee?

All of the above is the NSW licence. It's all so very Gordon Nuttal in justification, the NSW fishing licence well fits the 3 wise moneys proverb so long as there is ego and money at stake.

cheers fnq

[Scott Mitchell]

I know you do not know what the very big problems where/still are, by being there in the thick of it in real time you where a card carrying part of the problem, representing the "keen anglers" which is very apt and was by definition the minority as I mentioned above, grass roots holds no style for those with a personal aim, devoid of community responsibility...the majority is still silenced by all accounts.

How do you propose to enact a one shoe fits all licence considering all that you would know from your time in NSW and what it was...outside of the political spin.

To give you a hand.

How do you propose to protect those in the community that fish very infrequently, spur of the moment or as an adjunct to another infrequent activity?
*There is a 3 day license at $6-
How do you propose to protect Anglers funds from political raids?
*Transparent trust accounts that are audited annually
How do you propose to protect anglers funds from intergovernmental research arms, crcs, universities, fishery's principal scientists etc.?
* ALL funds spent from teh trust accounts HAVE TO BE SIGNED OFF by the expenditure committees which are made from rec anglers area representatives from across the state.
How do you propose to keep wider community zealot organisations of any committees.?
* We never had any major issues with indigenous or green representatives - heated discussions at times ;)
How do you propose to keep the committees as representative of all anglers not just the elite or those whose voice is most favoured.?
* Any one with the will to contribute has the right to apply for the positions annually
How do you propose to ensure all anglers funds are totally protected from being a substitute for treasury core fishery's funding.?
* Transparent trust accounts
How do you propose to stop the committee from being the ministers/department lackys.?
* Because they can / will make this known via widely through out the angling community media network quite easily in this day & age.YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE when you represent the community on these committees.
How will the committee gain the teeth to deal with all corruption/corrupt dealings from from within the department?
* This is NOT what they are there for - They are there to distribute funding raised via the license to best benefit recreational angling with-in the state.
What democratic mechanism is available to wind up or cast a no faith vote in the committee?
*Public opinion - plenty of media outlets for that ;)

All of the above is the NSW licence. It's all so very Gordon Nuttal in justification, the NSW fishing licence well fits the 3 wise moneys proverb so long as there is ego and money at stake.

cheers fnq

You really need to get over this conspiracy theory stuff & move on - This is the sort of attitude that is holding back this states fishery.

Regards Scott

[FNQCairns]

It's not just me it's from a full decade of lonely ignored Anglers voices, a google is full of the underhanded and elitist behaviours typical under the licence, fishnet years ago was a good and loud sounding board for anglers also, not that anyone was heard .

No one could penetrate the firewall, the elite on the committee where wise monkeys, the minister started the licence to cover a lack of forecast funding within the department for research etc. Money was taken to prop up core fishery's business with the blessing of the committee i understand...of coarse anything can justified when those that threaten the money from the community, police the money and manage the money.

It's all ok to virtually quote straight from the fisherys licence handbook as your reply but I am not a politician and see no use in spin. The amount of audited money I have seen funnelled corruptly within fisherys as is also typical in every department I would assume, what I am getting at is a whole shelf higher than what one would get from the same questions sent directly to fisherys....with you history you can do better than a parliament question time reply...you would have too within any qld licence ...with hope anyway.

If the NSW anglers had any voice the licence would have been wound up years ago. Poeple I still know accept it but wouldn't tolerate it if they had a choice or representation.

cheers fnq

[shayned]

I tried that Shayne..but a 3 1/4 hour round trip on a Wednesday night for a meeting is a bit much.

Yep probably our loss, but you'll retire one day and we'll still be here.;)

[shayned]

I would also like to know what these major problems with the NSW system are...?

There is reference to boating access fees which are on top of SIPS and also to user pays for new developments. As always the devil will be in the details

That is also an interesting one. What grounds do they have to charge for boating access? Is this for boat ramps or parking grounds etc?

Cheers

Chris
Again give me a bell, but to answer part of this, my understanding is that funds for new boats ramps can be accessed through the boat rego levy although the support facilities such as carparks etc must be funded by the local gov authority who manages the facility. Also upkeep and maintainance is paid for by the same authority.

[PinHead]

Yep probably our loss, but you'll retire one day and we'll still be here.;)

Long drive from Everton Park to Fernvale and back in the middle of the week.

[Lucky_Phill]

Common Greg, I drove to Rockhampton a few weeks ago for a one and a half hour meeting.

But, that's me. !!!! ;D :P ;D

Come to think of it, I took 3 hours off work the other day for a 1 hour meet in town.... bloody carparking costs are horrific !!!!

If you want an excuse for a little drive, pop down to the Victoria Point Boaties market on sunday 11th oct, as there will be an ' anglers ' meeting there. ;) 8-)

cheers
.
.
.
.
.
.

[shayned]

Greg,
Can't blame you I wouldn't drive to Fernvale either. Is a group at NPD closer to home for you and fit with your responsibilities in terms of your business?

[Mike Delisser]

Scott M I don't know why you respond to him, he'd argue the earth was flat if you said it was round.

Phil or Chris can you let us know Ecofishers Qld position on a general rec fishing licence in Qld?
And does anyone know how Ecofishers NSW feel (officialy) about the one down there.
Thanks
Mike

[finga]

If you want an excuse for a little drive, pop down to the Victoria Point Boaties market on sunday 11th oct, as there will be an ' anglers ' meeting there. ;) 8-)

cheers
.
.
.
.
.
.
You mean a bull crap session.
I'll be there 'cause I can talk crap just as good as anybody ;D

[webby]

The only remodeling i'm interested in, is staying with the system now in place in Qld.
regards

[Chris Ryan]

Scott M I don't know why you respond to him, he'd argue the earth was flat if you said it was round.

Phil or Chris can you let us know Ecofishers Qld position on a general rec fishing licence in Qld?
And does anyone know how Ecofishers NSW feel (officialy) about the one down there.
Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike,

Reading the NSW ECOfishers forums doesn't show a great deal of support for the licensing system. To the users on that forum it sounds like the fillet tables/ramps that have been installed should have been the responsibility of the councils anyway. Also it seems their view of the current NSW Minister is the spending of the funds from the transparent account which should come from the Departments budgets not the rec anglers pockets. I don't have any official position documents from them.

From a QLD perspective we don't have an official policy stance as yet (and nor does QLD Fisheries) but speaking with different people in and out of Fisheries that have much more knowledge than I agree that the QLD fishery is in a much stronger place than the NSW one is and that a broad based user pays system will not increase the sustainability or regeneration of the fishery as a whole. These people are scientists and fisherman from both rec and professional so I tend to agree with these people at this stage.

[Scott Mitchell]

From a QLD perspective we don't have an official policy stance as yet (and nor does QLD Fisheries) but speaking with different people in and out of Fisheries that have much more knowledge than I agree that the QLD fishery is in a much stronger place than the NSW one is and that a broad based user pays system will not increase the sustainability or regeneration of the fishery as a whole. These people are scientists and fisherman from both rec and professional so I tend to agree with these people at this stage.



Explain to me how the Qld fishery is in a "stronger place" Than NSW ?

Please confirm that "These different People" in & out of fisheries & Qld Eco Fishers - believe that DPI&F have sufficient funding to manage Queenslands state fisheries currently ?

Thanks Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

Explain to me how the Qld fishery is in a "stronger place" Than NSW ?

Please confirm that "These different People" in & out of fisheries & Qld Eco Fishers - believe that DPI&F have sufficient funding to manage Queenslands state fisheries currently ?

Thanks Scotto

That is a different question all together.

[Scott Mitchell]

These people are scientists and fisherman from both rec and professional so I tend to agree with these people at this stage.



So your happy with "their" current position & managment of Qld's fisheries ;)

Come on Andy - Get off the fence :P

Regards Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

So your happy with "their" current position & managment of Qld's fisheries ;)

Come on Andy - Get off the fence :P

Regards Scotto

You should try a career in a politics, your good at changing the subject.

I have already stated my opinion on the matter. I am happy for the most part with the way DPI&F manage the fisheries.

Yes, I agree they need more funding, but a licence system is still not going to help the clusterf*ck that is 3 departments managing our fisheries. Before you even consider a licence, you need to fix that up first. Use the funding from the 2 other departments that are doubling up on resources and put it into the DPI&F. The whole concept is mind numbingly stupid.

[Chris Ryan]

You have made three different questions at the same time Scott so I'll attempt to answer all of them.

1. We do think the QLD fishery is in better shape than NSW overall. Yes there are segments south of Baffle Creek which have more pressure than others but overall the fishery is very healthy. Those segments are being addressed by fisheries now and over the next few years for increased sustainability.

2. Funding of fisheries won't be solved by making the user pay for access to the fishery with a broad based license. In our opinion it simply won't solve the financing problems. So if this angle is about the options of commercial buy-outs then you need to go an investigate how the licensing works in QLD and who owns the licenses. You will then see that the hundreds of millions paid out in the Moreton Bay restructure reduced the professional fishing effort by bugger all yet most of those fisherman are still fishing now. The commercial fishery management needs an overhaul so those who are actually fishing AND own the license are known so these buy-outs don't just fund superfunds or investors. Do we want a $30 per year fee to fund the rich investors to get richer....hell no.

3. Are we happy with the management of fisheries? It is not perfect but at least we are involved in management group discussions and sit at the table with these people on issues to see what we can do to help. More importantly we need to understand the political pressures these people have to deal with. Most of them I have dealt with are passionate recreational fisherman too; not just faceless political animals.

I am sure that it is not in agreement with your overall views but I hope this answers your questions.

[Scott Mitchell]

You have made three different questions at the same time Scott so I'll attempt to answer all of them.

1. We do think the QLD fishery is in better shape than NSW overall. Yes there are segments south of Baffle Creek which have more pressure than others but overall the fishery is very healthy. Those segments are being addressed by fisheries now and over the next few years for increased sustainability.
* Have you been up to Gulf? - I can assure that while it is not as heavy fished recreationally - it is being rapped without a whole lot of sustainable research in place.Outta mind - Outta sight !

2. Funding of fisheries won't be solved by making the user pay for access to the fishery with a broad based license. In our opinion it simply won't solve the financing problems. So if this angle is about the options of commercial buy-outs then you need to go an investigate how the licensing works in QLD and who owns the licenses. You will then see that the hundreds of millions paid out in the Moreton Bay restructure reduced the professional fishing effort by bugger all yet most of those fisherman are still fishing now. The commercial fishery management needs an overhaul so those who are actually fishing AND own the license are known so these buy-outs don't just fund superfunds or investors. Do we want a $30 per year fee to fund the rich investors to get richer....hell no.

* So having more funding held in transparent/audited trust accounts - managed by committees of rec anglers ( I have yet to see a rich investor on one in NSW ? ) Won't contribute to better research & general fisheries management ?

* You / Eco Fishers is dead against a general recreational angling licence of any form ?

* You/Eco fishers believes that they will lobby government for a "fair/better" allocation of funding already raised by rego fee's , tackle, boat sales etc - Oh Yeah - The government also promised us $35 Million at the last election ::)

3. Are we happy with the management of fisheries? It is not perfect but at least we are involved in management group discussions and sit at the table with these people on issues to see what we can do to help. More importantly we need to understand the political pressures these people have to deal with. Most of them I have dealt with are passionate recreational fisherman too; not just faceless political animals.

* your mostly happy & satisfied with the way things are going.

I am sure that it is not in agreement with your overall views but I hope this answers your questions.

* Yep - I am not in agreement & could not support Ecofishers based on your statements.But I appreciate your time in addressing my questions.

Regards Scotto

[TimiBoy]

It appears Scott has this idea that Qld is a copy of NSW, same size, demographic, culture - thus his solution, because it works so well (hmmmm) it must work here. I mean NSW is Australia in microcosm, is it not (well, to New South Welshmen, anyway)?

This idea of funding being transparently handled by Anglers, sounds great, let's do it. Let's fork over our hard earned, have it managed, and have a few mil to "do stuff" with.

Here's how Government reacts.

Minister Mulherin; "Oh good! They have $5 million! Let's not fund those new ramps/carparks/research projects, and tell the fund that if the work needs to be done, they can fund it!" Goody goody goody goody goody goody goodyha ha ha ha ha ha SUCKERS!!!"

If you don't reckon that's going to happen, then I have some really good land in Alaska to sell you. You can't lose...

There's one born every minute.

Tim

[Chris Ryan]

Scott,

Does the transparent accounts pay for the Compliance officers/Aquatic Habitat Officers across NSW to enforce the management policies of the Department?

[Scott Mitchell]

Here's how Government reacts.

Minister Mulherin; "Oh good! They have $5 million! Let's not fund those new ramps/carparks/research projects, and tell the fund that if the work needs to be done, they can fund it!" Goody goody goody goody goody goody goodyha ha ha ha ha ha SUCKERS!!!"

Tim



Quote " More importantly we need to understand the political pressures these people have to deal with. Most of them I have dealt with are passionate recreational fisherman too; not just faceless political animals."

And your happy to keep chipping away ,requesting they just give us back our fair share - because they should ::)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

Scott,

Does the transparent accounts pay for the Compliance officers/Aquatic Habitat Officers across NSW to enforce the management policies of the Department?

I believe the trust accounts funded 2 - 3 compliance inspectors early on - because of the general public support for them. This was heatedly discussed - because the committees did not want to be seen as funding jobs. But at the end of the day it is no use having the rules in place to protect & manage our fisheries if we do not have enough compliance officers in the field to monitor them ?

These positions where allocated when most needed & formed part of a mobile squad I believe. I would need to get an update on this now if more details required as I have been out of the state for 3 years.

I believe ALL this detail is mostly covered on the NSW DPI&F website as previous disclosed as well ;)

Regards Scotto

[Black_Rat]

With regards to a recreational angler fishing license our members have not bought up the issue ;)

[TimiBoy]

Look. It just doesn't matter how transparent it is. Once there is a fund, the Minister can decide he will no longer fund things he should be funding, because that lovely fund over there can do it.

Therefore, by proxy, the money is nicked.

If you can't find a way to comprehend that, then I will stand by the concept that a Queenslander is smarter than a NSWelshman, by about 400 miles. Still nowhere near a South Australian...

Or one could also surmise that the proposer has another agenda. To imitate another "less than fully gifted" political aspirant - please explain?

Tim

[Scott Mitchell]

Or one could also surmise that the proposer has another agenda. To imitate another "less than fully gifted" political aspirant - please explain?

Tim



Seriously Timmy - Your into conspiracy theories :P

I have NO aspirations of getting into politics - BUT I will lobby/fight to protect my right to enjoy my fishing ;)

I'll quote from a previous post :-

" All right team - I have some figure on the what the NSW general license system raises :-

06/07 - $10.6MIL
07/08 - $10.7MIL
08/09 - $13.4MIL

Remember that this is ON TOP OF RENEW PROVIDED FROM PUBLIC REVENEW TO RUN THE DEPARTMENT ( Approx $3.5 Million PA ) - AND IS MANAGED BY THE LICENCE EXPEDITURE COMMITEES as previously disclosed.

The break down on NSW License sales periods is :-

10% (3yr)
30% (1r)
20% (1mth)
40% (3day)
*These % do not change much year to year.

Some more good reading to be had @ http://www.recfish.com.au/projects/p...ary%202009.pdf (http://www.recfish.com.au/projects/pdf/Strategic%20Revenue%20Options%20for%20Recreational %20Fishing%20Focus%20Group%20-%2021%20January%202009.pdf)

"Apparently" 8.75 million is allocated to Qld DPI&F from public revenue currently - with an additional 2.75 million from taxes on rego etc ;) "

You can look at it any way you like - the figures ARE FACT , It costs money - lots of money to manage a fishery the size of Queensland's & the government have shown that they can't do it under the current system. I will take a stab in the dark and "guess" we could expect to raise at least 10 million via a general rec license in Qld - even if the government wound back their current expenditure by 50% we would still have more money & better control over how it is spent - It's Fact !

We would have committees in place who would question an changes in expenditure as that is what they will have their fingers on the pulse.

A Fact that currently 42.86% of the pollers also see ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

With regards to a recreational angler fishing license our members have not bought up the issue ;)

So what your saying is - Ecofishers is NOT in favour of a General recreational fishing licence ?

Regards Scotto

[STUIE63]

just depends how you read the figures I suppose you say currently 42.86% of the pollers also see but I read them saying 47.2% ( which happens to be the majority btw ) say no
I personally think if it was implemented then the percentages would go my way alot further when people had to start paying for what they already have and own
Stuie

[finga]

" All right team - I have some figure on the what the NSW general license system raises :-

06/07 - $10.6MIL
07/08 - $10.7MIL
08/09 - $13.4MIL

Remember that this is ON TOP OF RENEW PROVIDED FROM PUBLIC REVENEW TO RUN THE DEPARTMENT ( Approx $3.5 Million PA ) - AND IS MANAGED BY THE LICENCE EXPEDITURE COMMITEES as previously disclosed.

So can you give us an indication on what this raised money was spent on as I do not want to read lots of documents??
Cheers then
Scott :)

[Scott Mitchell]

So can you give us an indication on what this raised money was spent on as I do not want to read lots of documents??
Cheers then
Scott :)



It's all been posted back through this thread - I do not have the time to do "your" research as well ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

just depends how you read the figures I suppose you say currently 42.86% of the pollers also see but I read them saying 47.2% ( which happens to be the majority btw ) say no

I personally think if it was implemented then the percentages would go my way alot further when people had to start paying for what they already have and own
Stuie



What is your way again Stuie ?

I don't have a "way" personally - only a "proposal" on how we can manage our fisheries better - which requires money. As I have stated from the outset - I propose a general license based on the NSW model as a proven system for raising funds to manage a resource with significant rec angler contribution as to how it is spent & managed.

If any one can show us a better "achievable/realistic" alternative - I'd be all for it :P

Regards Scotto

[finga]

It might be an idea to continually 'remind' people where the money would go as one of the major concerns about the license fee is that it will be used to do things that should be done from all the other taxes we pay.
A good indication of where the money would go is what NSW has spent theirs on

[Scott Mitchell]

It might be an idea to continually 'remind' people where the money would go as one of the major concerns about the license fee is that it will be used to do things that should be done from all the other taxes we pay.

A good indication of where the money would go is what NSW has spent theirs on



I guess the current system is fine then - the government did "promise" us $35 million at the last election - apparently :P

And they are providing $8.5 million currently - I don't know why I even thought we needed another system - every thing is much clearer through these new rose coloured classes 8-)

I know - "the lowest form of Whit" - Scotto

[mowerman]

Any chance of answering some of the questions that have been asked mate.

Especially Fingas.


Or is this just about pounding the same drum.


Rod

[Sevric]

You really are bashing your head against a brick wall Scott. I have been following this thread for ages and the underlying problem that every one seems to have is mistrust in politicians and rightly so. I do not think it matters how you organise it the government will squeeze the money out of it one way or another.
The only language that a politician understands is votes, unfortunately there is no one that i am aware of to vote for in Queensland and that is sad.
One thing though i have learned from reading all the comments is that I will never trust or go along with ecofishers either. The problem seems to be that every one is pushing their own narrow minded barrow and loosing sight of the major issues. These people are just attacking you because they can rather than taking the matter seriously. For the record i support your general licence fee administered by a non government body with strict regulation to keep the grubby fingers of governments away from it.
To do this we need a national body of representatives with State branches and if we could vote for them it would be great both at national and state levels. Unfortunately we have ended up with a myriad of toothless lobby groups all pushing their own barrows.
We are fragmented, disorganised and opinionated; just what the government and the greens want.


Regards to all Sevric

[Scott Mitchell]

Any chance of answering some of the questions that have been asked mate.

Especially Fingas.


Or is this just about pounding the same drum.


Rod

Rod - What questions have I missed ?

I believe you will find ALL the answers back through the previous pages in this thread ;)

Happy to answer any I have missed however ?

Regards Scotto

[Black_Rat]

So what your saying is - Ecofishers is NOT in favour of a General recreational fishing licence ?

Regards Scotto

No what I said was the issue has not been raised by any of our members :)

[Lovey80]

Scott I gave you a perfectly workable alternate solution- the problem remains and rightly so, that the broke mismanaged QLD gov't will give even less to rec anglers knowing that we have our own bundle of cash. If a body like ECO was to be GARANTEED in legislation a large percentage of the boat and trailer Rego AND a set percentage from the FED of GST (from fishing related goods and services) then it would be worth while. If that were the case then I'd be happy to pay EXTRA for a license for things like buy backs for rec havens and arti reefs and stocking programs and a heap of other things but we all know none of that is going to happen so keep beating that drum.

[finga]

Rod - What questions have I missed ?

I believe you will find ALL the answers back through the previous pages in this thread ;)

Happy to answer any I have missed however ?

Regards Scotto
Would have been easier to bung another link up showing the figures then telling everyone to look back through 25 pages. I hope the government is not as transparent as that answer if the license comes in.

I still reckon we're better off sending our proposed license fees to 'The Old Legend' (or TOL as he's affectionately known). I touched on that idea on page 15 http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=154653&page=15

A mob of drongoes could go and drink his coffee on a Saturday morning (Marlin Mike can bring the jam roll) and decisions could be made on what the money could be wisely spent on.
'Grants' could be handed out for restocking and the such and commercial licenses could be brought and kept in TOL's name. (well at least we know he won't use them. He admits he's good for nothing).
Just pay him a carton of fags a month and a box of plonk a week and that's his salary.
At least we'll know exactly what the money is spent on because he's a stickler for that type of thing....and the government will not be able to touch it or back away from their existing obligations.

[dayoo]

Don't bother argueing over the NSW licence model have a look at the WA model because I am sure Fisheries has. Closures....boat fishing fees......possible reduced bag limits......= No incentive to fish offshore. Won't be many offshore reports on Ausfish in 2011 especially south of Noosa. WATCH THIS SPACE

Cheers
Barry

[finga]

Well I had a nice cup of coffee in front of me and it's too early to start the Rover so I thought I'd have a look through the whole thread to see what NSW has spent their license money on.
Well I could not find a spread sheet or table on what they've spent their money on only a link to some projects that are on the NSW DPI site http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/your-fees

One of the thing I saw was Fisheries Officers.
$1,500,000 was allocated for Fisheries Officers. I would have thought their wages would have come out of the Government's coffers seeing they directly report to a Government department.
Then I found a post where committee members cost 60odd thousand dollars for meetings...and Pinhead said why??? Conference calls or webcams.

Real Andy also asked about what has been done with his money as he fishes the FNC of NSW and the reply was ...call the area rep.

Now I see the license has raised $34,500,000 over the last 3 years.
Looking at the link above about where the fees go the list of projects generally run from 2001 to 2008.
I cannot see where the 34 and 1/2 million dollars has been spent in the last 3 years...buggered if I can.
Actually looking at the projects there were a total of 56 grants given out for fishing facilities from 2001-2008. 25 of these grants were given to councils. That's nearly 1/2 of the grants were given to councils to do jobs rates are supposed to pay for.
I added up the figures for the angling facilities and the total came to about $350,000 from 2001-2008 with grants ranging from $333 for signs for the Singleton Fly Fishing Club to $20,000 for 3 fish cleaning tables for Coffs Harbour council.
Looking at the figures a lot of the larger grants were to Councils for fish cleaning tables.
So if I missed the table or spread sheet on what the money has been spent on I would really appreciate the effort of posting it.
There were no links on the fishing license site where I could see the spread sheet only gross generalisations.
So ... are the expenditures really transparent??

Time to start the Rover now :(

[TheRealAndy]

One thing though i have learned from reading all the comments is that I will never trust or go along with ecofishers either. The problem seems to be that every one is pushing their own narrow minded barrow and loosing sight of the major issues. These people are just attacking you because they can rather than taking the matter seriously. For the record i support your general licence fee administered by a non government body with strict regulation to keep the grubby fingers of governments away from it.
To do this we need a national body of representatives with State branches and if we could vote for them it would be great both at national and state levels. Unfortunately we have ended up with a myriad of toothless lobby groups all pushing their own barrows.
We are fragmented, disorganised and opinionated; just what the government and the greens want.


Regards to all Sevric

ECOFishers is pushing the agenda of the average rec fisherman. The guys that you dont see here. The guys that I meet at the pub, local events and fairs. The guys that are not tech savvy and you have no clue about. I get out there and discuss things with those people and take on board their ideas and suggestions. ECOFishers also goes out there and consults with scientist and people with local knowledge. We then take what we know as FACT and argue the point for those who are unable to do so. We will also take what we know as FALSE SCIENCE and LIES and argue for some truth. So trust us or not, we are not going away and we will not back down. We will continue to represent those who have been dealt unfairly by state and federal govenrments, and we will continue to represent those that have not been represented fairly by Sunfish. We will also do this with NO POLITICAL AGENDA. We are doing this because its the right thing to do. We are doing this because we were not being represented.

[Scott Mitchell]

Well I had a nice cup of coffee in front of me and it's too early to start the Rover so I thought I'd have a look through the whole thread to see what NSW has spent their license money on.
Well I could not find a spread sheet or table on what they've spent their money on only a link to some projects that are on the NSW DPI site http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/your-fees

One of the thing I saw was Fisheries Officers.$1,500,000 was allocated for Fisheries Officers. I would have thought their wages would have come out of the Government's coffers seeing they directly report to a Government department.
Then I found a post where committee members cost 60odd thousand dollars for meetings...and Pinhead said why??? Conference calls or webcams.

Real Andy also asked about what has been done with his money as he fishes the FNC of NSW and the reply was ...call the area rep.

Now I see the license has raised $34,500,000 over the last 3 years.
Looking at the link above about where the fees go the list of projects generally run from 2001 to 2008.
I cannot see where the 34 and 1/2 million dollars has been spent in the last 3 years...buggered if I can.
Actually looking at the projects there were a total of 56 grants given out for fishing facilities from 2001-2008. 25 of these grants were given to councils. That's nearly 1/2 of the grants were given to councils to do jobs rates are supposed to pay for.
I added up the figures for the angling facilities and the total came to about $350,000 from 2001-2008 with grants ranging from $333 for signs for the Singleton Fly Fishing Club to $20,000 for 3 fish cleaning tables for Coffs Harbour council.
Looking at the figures a lot of the larger grants were to Councils for fish cleaning tables.
So if I missed the table or spread sheet on what the money has been spent on I would really appreciate the effort of posting it.
There were no links on the fishing license site where I could see the spread sheet only gross generalisations.
So ... are the expenditures really transparent??

Time to start the Rover now :(

I actually work in real estate sales for a living now days & have been flat out - I believe these questions have been answered to the best of my knowledge previously. I have requested extra expense clarification from NSW DPI&F & hope to post more information once received.

Regards Scotto

[Black_Rat]

ECOFishers is pushing the agenda of the average rec fisherman. The guys that you dont see here. The guys that I meet at the pub, local events and fairs. The guys that are not tech savvy and you have no clue about. I get out there and discuss things with those people and take on board their ideas and suggestions. ECOFishers also goes out there and consults with scientist and people with local knowledge. We then take what we know as FACT and argue the point for those who are unable to do so. We will also take what we know as FALSE SCIENCE and LIES and argue for some truth. So trust us or not, we are not going away and we will not back down. We will continue to represent those who have been dealt unfairly by state and federal govenrments, and we will continue to represent those that have not been represented fairly by Sunfish. We will also do this with NO POLITICAL AGENDA. We are doing this because its the right thing to do. We are doing this because we were not being represented.

Andy,

Couldn't agree more :)

ECOfishers QLD had a stall set up at the VMR Viccy Point Boatie Market held on Sunday from 430am to close.

We spoke to many grass roots recreational anglers on a variety of issuses. We must have given away some 500 + booklets out on the Moreton Bay Marine Park Zones and the up to date size/bag limits brouchers. The recreational anglers we represent were most greatfull for this.

We also managed to gather 30 + rods and reels through kind donations for use by underprivileged and disadvantaged kids :)

I'm happy to push an agenda through EOfishers QLD that will benefit the recreational angler ! 8-)

Damo.

[finga]

ECOfishers QLD had a stall set up at the VMR Viccy Point Boatie Market held on Sunday from 430am to close.

We spoke to many grass roots recreational anglers on a variety of issuses. We must have given away some 500 + booklets out on the Moreton Bay Marine Park Zones and the up to date size/bag limits brouchers. The recreational anglers we represent were most greatfull for this.

Damo.
That was the first time I had seen all the available booklets, cd's etc available in one place...and plenty of them to go around.
All the promotions nights at BCF etc that I have been too only have a handful of these things available and they seem to go pretty dam quick.
Thanks guys for making an effort in educating the general populaces on matters to do with fishing. It will make a difference.
Education is the key

Thanks for your efforts
Scott :)

PS it's just a shame some people were scared away by the presence of Timi.
Na, just kidding....or am I?? ::)

[mowerman]

PS it's just a shame some people were scared away by the presence of Timi.
Na, just kidding....or am I?? ::)


He was hitting them up for money for a sausage.

Hope you got sauce with it mate.


Rod

[TimiBoy]

mmmmm, 2 bucks a shot, who wouldn't want a sausage? All that yummy onion, and yes, I did have sauce.

All that onion was, well, productive!

Tim

[Scott Mitchell]

Couldn't get an itemised break down other than projects mentioned under each current trust fund. You can view the trust fund reports @ http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/licence-fee/trusts/trust-fund-reports

Still a more transparent system than what we have currently in Qld ;)

Regards Scotto

[finga]

Couldn't get an itemised break down other than projects mentioned under each current trust fund. You can view the trust fund reports @ http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/licence-fee/trusts/trust-fund-reports

Still a more transparent system than what we have currently in Qld ;)

Regards Scotto
you reckon??

I was originally in favour of licenses but after seeing how un-transparent the set-up is has left me bewildered and, frankly, staggered.
They are about as transparent as a brickwall on a moonless night.

I reckon I would have put my hand up top collect the $5,000 for something listed as "Defining a quality recreational fishing experience"
Too easy Campese.....get up, go fishing, come home. Now that's a quality recreational fishing experience because:
(a) I was able to get up
(b) I was able to go fishing
(c) I had a home to come home to and I got home.
That's a quality experience. Catching fish is a bi-product in all that ;D

Now. Where's my 5k?? Seriously...where's my 5k??? >:(

[Scott Mitchell]

you reckon??

I was originally in favour of licenses but after seeing how un-transparent the set-up is has left me bewildered and, frankly, staggered.
They are about as transparent as a brickwall on a moonless night.

I reckon I would have put my hand up top collect the $5,000 for something listed as "Defining a quality recreational fishing experience"
Too easy Campese.....get up, go fishing, come home. Now that's a quality recreational fishing experience because:
(a) I was able to get up
(b) I was able to go fishing
(c) I had a home to come home to and I got home.
That's a quality experience. Catching fish is a bi-product in all that ;D

Now. Where's my 5k?? Seriously...where's my 5k??? >:(

If you can't see the benifits of the having a rec license "along" the lines of the NSW model proposed over what we current have here in Qld - I rest my case ::)

I'm actually going north fishing for a few weeks - catch'em while we can ;D

Regards Scotto

[Lovey80]

In my opinion TRANSPARENT means any Rec Angler should be able log onto a Website and see an itemised list of how much was raised in that financial year and where every cent of the cash went and how much was left over at the end of the financial year. It should also be a link on the main page. THAT Scott is transparent! It seems your idea of transparent and the rest of us may be vastly different.

Cheers

Chris

[finga]

If you can't see the benifits of the having a rec license "along" the lines of the NSW model proposed over what we current have here in Qld - I rest my case ::)

I'm actually going north fishing for a few weeks - catch'em while we can ;D

Regards Scotto
To be honest I cannot see anything in that list that we do not get here already.
Most of the things should be out of the 2 local tiers of NSW government coffers like the fisheries officers and the cleaning tables to name but two.
Research is done, cleaning tables are made and fad's are put in already in QLD.
What does NSW get that we don't??

That list leaves a lot for the imagination of the reader.
What is charter fishing monitoring??
The boys go for a charter or two??
Or the gamefish tagging program. I would like to know what that is
Or recreational fishing havens process?? Don't know what it is but it cost $200,000
These are but a few more questions

[Scott Mitchell]

In my opinion TRANSPARENT means any Rec Angler should be able log onto a Website and see an itemised list of how much was raised in that financial year and where every cent of the cash went and how much was left over at the end of the financial year. It should also be a link on the main page. THAT Scott is transparent! It seems your idea of transparent and the rest of us may be vastly different.

Cheers

Chris

I believe you could write to ACORF/ NSW DPI&F & request an itemised / detailed list of total expenditure if required. I am personally happy with the detail believe that NSW is currently a long way out in front of Qld as far as fisheries management goes - just my opinion.

I recon we have covered enough detail in this thread for those wanting to vote to make an informed decision & will now let this poll run it's course ;)

Regards Scott

[Scott Mitchell]

To be honest I cannot see anything in that list that we do not get here already.
Most of the things should be out of the 2 local tiers of NSW government coffers like the fisheries officers and the cleaning tables to name but two.
Research is done, cleaning tables are made and fad's are put in already in QLD.
What does NSW get that we don't??

That list leaves a lot for the imagination of the reader.
What is charter fishing monitoring??
The boys go for a charter or two??
Or the gamefish tagging program. I would like to know what that is
Or recreational fishing havens process?? Don't know what it is but it cost $200,000
These are but a few more questions




Seriously ::) - http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/your-fees

In any case the details are all there you can analyse them any way you like - If your happy with the way things are or believe the government is going to supply more no-strings-attached funding to improve recreational angling - we'll re-visit this issue in a year ;)

I'm going fishing - Scotto

[finga]

Don't go looking for any fads in NSW.
There aren't any
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/saltwater/fads/map

[Lovey80]

I believe you could write to ACORF/ NSW DPI&F & request an itemised / detailed list of total expenditure if required. I am personally happy with the detail believe that NSW is currently a long way out in front of Qld as far as fisheries management goes - just my opinion.

I recon we have covered enough detail in this thread for those wanting to vote to make an informed decision & will now let this poll run it's course ;)

Regards Scott

I certainly do not think there is enough detail in this thread for someone to make an informed decision. After a glance at the 07/08 fishing expendiature, I was horrified at what thousands of dollars have gone to. While there ARE things in there that I would like to have funded out of a fishing licence if introduced, there is pleanty to show this is just a user pays arm of NSW fisheries.

Things like:

$30,000 just so the trust fund can be a member of RecFish. I would be screaming blue murder if Sunfish got 30K to represent me on their current record!

$16,000 for ACoRF mettings-What the?

$5,000 for defining a Quality Recreational Fishing Experience- What the?

$163,000 for Eastern King Prawn Stocking- For stocking a Prawn that will leave the river and get caught by prawners when they come back to breed in other systems. If all inshore prawning was banned then I'd be fine with that.

$28,000 for expendiature commitee meeting expenses. What the?

$1,458,000 - For fisheries officers - I agree that QLD state gov't are pathetic with funding fisheries officers and am the first to tell people we need more. But again the perfect example how a Gov't will not do the right thing if they know the average angler will pay for it.

$750,000 fishing survey for just greater Sydney-What the? Refer to my comments on ECO getting the money and ECO monitoring the RRFF mandatory catch cards. How far would $750,000 go? (not that ECO have said they want to take on the resposibility) but 750k going to an organisation would surely be enough to cover data entry of every Rec catch in the state!

$6,000 for Coffs Harbour fish cleaning facilities- Again something that should have been provided by the state gov't. There is enough going through state coffers to supply all ramps state wide just out of boat and trailer rego.

$114,000 for Charter Boat consultation and monitoring-What the?

$79,000 for recreation fishing in Shoal Haven river-What the? Research and works shops for what?

$148,000 for the Trust Executive Officer-Jobs for the boys eh? Big dollar jobs at that.

$122,000 for the Recreational Research Project-What the? See comments of the Greater Sydney Survey

I have only brought up the ones at a glance were a waste of money or could have been spent on much more needed projects......ONLY to emphasize why the NSW program is a crap program. Also the only reason I didnt mention some of the good things the money was spent on. As I have said in the past I'm not opposed totally to a fishing licence and things like:

Rec fishing Havens
Artificial Reefs
FAD's
Salt Restocking Programs (like NSW Mulloway)
Inshore Trawl buy outs and Beach netting buy outs in certain areas.

Just to name a few

Cheers

Chris

[Black_Rat]

That was the first time I had seen all the available booklets, cd's etc available in one place...and plenty of them to go around.
All the promotions nights at BCF etc that I have been too only have a handful of these things available and they seem to go pretty dam quick.
Thanks guys for making an effort in educating the general populaces on matters to do with fishing. It will make a difference.
Education is the key

Thanks for your efforts
Scott :)

PS it's just a shame some people were scared away by the presence of Timi.
Na, just kidding....or am I?? ::)

The CD's being handed out were Gently Does It #2 the CD deals with release methods and survival rates on various species. This is a very informative DVD on the survival rates when releasing fish.

For a free copy PM me or email me at treasurer@ecofishersqld.org.au and we'll post one out to you :)

Damo

[finga]

The CD's being handed out were Gently Does It #2 the CD deals with release methods and survival rates on various species. This is a very informative DVD on the survival rates when releasing fish.

For a free copy PM me or email me at treasurer@ecofishersqld.org.au and we'll post one out to you :)

Damo
Got those last week matey.
Some good information in them. I, for one, learnt a lot from them :)

Cheers then
Scott :)

[mangomick]

I'm actually going north fishing for a few weeks - catch'em while we can ;D

Regards Scotto

I really can't see the transparency in the NSW scheme but what I really dont understand is.......... If the fishing is so well managed in NSW compared to Qld why the hell are you going north?????

[Scott Mitchell]

I really can't see the transparency in the NSW scheme but what I really dont understand is.......... If the fishing is so well managed in NSW compared to Qld why the hell are you going north?????

Because my mate is running a new fishing lodge on Camp Island just above Bowen & I am going up to have a fish & write it up for a couple of magazines 8-)

Just hope this wind drops out - Scotto

[TimiBoy]

$30,000 just so the trust fund can be a member of RecFish. I would be screaming blue murder if Sunfish got 30K to represent me on their current record!

$16,000 for ACoRF mettings-What the?

$5,000 for defining a Quality Recreational Fishing Experience- What the?

$28,000 for expendiature commitee meeting expenses. What the?

$1,458,000 - For fisheries officers - I agree that QLD state gov't are pathetic with funding fisheries officers and am the first to tell people we need more. But again the perfect example how a Gov't will not do the right thing if they know the average angler will pay for it.

$750,000 fishing survey for just greater Sydney-What the? Refer to my comments on ECO getting the money and ECO monitoring the RRFF mandatory catch cards. How far would $750,000 go? (not that ECO have said they want to take on the resposibility) but 750k going to an organisation would surely be enough to cover data entry of every Rec catch in the state!

$6,000 for Coffs Harbour fish cleaning facilities- Again something that should have been provided by the state gov't. There is enough going through state coffers to supply all ramps state wide just out of boat and trailer rego.

$114,000 for Charter Boat consultation and monitoring-What the?

$79,000 for recreation fishing in Shoal Haven river-What the? Research and works shops for what?

$148,000 for the Trust Executive Officer-Jobs for the boys eh? Big dollar jobs at that.

$122,000 for the Recreational Research Project-What the? See comments of the Greater Sydney Survey


These are a bit like a torpedo in the engine room for the NSW model, IMO. How dare they spend members money on these items? A bit like pi$$ing in your pocket and telling you it's raining...



Rec fishing Havens
Artificial Reefs
FAD's
Salt Restocking Programs (like NSW Mulloway)
Inshore Trawl buy outs and Beach netting buy outs in certain areas.




Spot on. These are worthwhile items, and possibly within the gamut of a license.

Many thanks for digging the detail Chris.

Cheers,

Tim

[FNQCairns]

I notice in contentious threads that often a voting option which was highly popular at the start becomes no longer popular toward the end, I can only assume it's a result of the information contained within the thread.

Would be nice to have a way for signed in members to withdraw a vote then re-vote or abstain even... democracy in a turbocharged form and with a final result that reflects the reason for posting a poll in the first place.

Is this possible??

cheers fnq

[finga]

Well FNQ...I am in the boat you described.
I was full in favour of a license until some truth came out.
Now I'm against it with a passion so I would love to able to change my vote.

The reason I would change my vote??
The NSW license scheme is about as transparent as the Logan river during flood IMO from the information I have read here and from what I have found elsewhere.

[Scott Mitchell]

I notice in contentious threads that often a voting option which was highly popular at the start becomes no longer popular toward the end, I can only assume it's a result of the information contained within the thread.

Would be nice to have a way for signed in members to withdraw a vote then re-vote or abstain even... democracy in a turbocharged form and with a final result that reflects the reason for posting a poll in the first place.

Is this possible??

cheers fnq



Seriously - We'll note that a couple of you want to change your voting preference ::)

Nothing has changed through out this thread - the same half a dozen vocal members dead against it are still dead against it & make the most noise. BUT there are enough in favour of seeing change that I believe it is worth pursuing ;)

The NSW system is still only a "guide/model" the expenditure can be driven towards what the majority of those prepared to have a say want to see happen. The expenditure committees are given feedback from their respective areas & associations. The same old problem then occurs - there is never enough constructive feedback received - Until changes are made that are seen as unfavorable - then it becomes a conspiracy ::)

I'll sit down & count up the number of posts per member through out this thread at some stage ;)

Regards Scott

[FNQCairns]

This thread just happened to be the thread I posted the idea, i am not singling this thread out specificity and I have paid very little attention to the votes attained over this particular thread but I would like any results to reflect the posters original contention/reason for the poll, call me naive but democracy even at this level should be honest and forthright till the end irrespective of whether my or whoevers view 'wins', otherwise why bother:-/.

Personally i have noticed very specific voter trends in real time throughout threads lifetime almost exclusively the first 1/3 - 1/2 does not well represent the last half.

A few threads I have noticed this phenomenon past....most with a political slant, radio licence, lib/nats v labor posts, snapper, finfish, and others.

cheers fnq

[TimiBoy]

What makes you any different, Scott?

The "gainsayers" are not for "no change", they are generally in favour of Government responsibility where none exists. They want to see change, so that the taxes they already pay are used in the area from which they are derived. "It'll never happen" I hear you say. I say "wait for the next election".

You want to impose a new tax, along the lines of the NSW license, which has been shown by Lovey80 to be a chummy little love in for a few. You want change too. I'm sure you don't want exactly the outcome they are getting down south, but there's a reality here...

One reality is in the numbers. On this site, you are in the minority. If the vote were taken again I believe many who voted yes would change, and your position would be worse than it is now.

But there is another reality. EcoFishers Qld, while a fledgling organisation (which IS working on sending someone the the Sunfish Poofest, by the way) is achieving much and growing fast, with only the funding of it's existing members. No one is being paid, but results are in the pipeline. I will leave it to Chris Ryan to tell what HAS been achieved, and to outline what is on the way (that which can be made public, anyway).

Are we divisive? I guess we are, if that means our members are causing division by refusing to join other organisations which serve Rec Anglers. But the mere fact that we exist demonstrates pretty clearly that there is a decent chunk of the Angling Public who are NOT satisfied with the way things have been done up until now, which LIKES the idea of an organisation which is independently funded, and run by volunteers.

There IS a great deal of distrust out there of Sunfish. You don't seem to agree - that's fine, but it's a fact, baby. They caved in to the Government over Moreton Bay, and will continue to do so on important issues for as long as they are funded by the Government. Up the coast, I believe Sunfish does a much better job, but there are plenty of folks joining EcoFishers up there too. What does that tell you? Maybe there is a place for both? Who knows...

But the line showing that $1.5 million was spent by the license fees on Fisheries Officers is the killer. THAT IS A GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY. And as soon as you have funding from licenses, the Government will shift that responsibility, and we'll start paying for our own Police. Some of us said as much would happen down South, but you implied that wouldn't happen.

Now the point is proven. The NSW license now pays for things the Government should be paying for, and the Management of the fund can do Sweet Felicity Arkwright about it.

Sorry for harping but you seem a little... well... deaf?

Tim

[TheRealAndy]

Seriously - We'll note that a couple of you want to change your voting preference ::)

Nothing has changed through out this thread - the same half a dozen vocal members dead against it are still dead against it & make the most noise. BUT there are enough in favour of seeing change that I believe it is worth pursuing ;)

The NSW system is still only a "guide/model" the expenditure can be driven towards what the majority of those prepared to have a say want to see happen. The expenditure committees are given feedback from their respective areas & associations. The same old problem then occurs - there is never enough constructive feedback received - Until changes are made that are seen as unfavorable - then it becomes a conspiracy ::)

I'll sit down & count up the number of posts per member through out this thread at some stage ;)

Regards Scott

An AF is probably less than 1% of the fishing population in QLD, dont forget that.

[Scott Mitchell]

You want to impose a new tax, along the lines of the NSW license, which has been shown by Lovey80 to be a chummy little love in for a few. You want change too. I'm sure you don't want exactly the outcome they are getting down south, but there's a reality here...

Now the point is proven. The NSW license now pays for things the Government should be paying for, and the Management of the fund can do Sweet Felicity Arkwright about it.

Sorry for harping but you seem a little... well... deaf?

Tim



I am not in favour of imposing a new tax - I want to see our fisheries given a fighting chance for sustainable management. This requires funding & the government does not appear to have the same focus on the importance of this as us anglers.

If you recon your gunna lobby the government to receive "no strings attached funding" to better manage recreational angling in Qld - I recon "Your dream'in"

But it's a novel idea - Scotto

PS:What was that I hear - that's right - Nothing ::)

[Scott Mitchell]

An AF is probably less than 1% of the fishing population in QLD, dont forget that.

The same Poll on two other Qld fishing web sites puts the idea of a rec license at 59% & 93% - so collectively we're in the majority ;)

I do need to go fishing - Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

The same Poll on two other Qld fishing web sites puts the idea of a rec license at 59% & 93% - so collectively we're in the majority ;)

I do need to go fishing - Scotto

You see thats where your data is very misleading and deceptive. Once again, you are speaking like a politician. You have got information from 166 people here on AF, hardly conclusive.

Out of all the people I know who go fishing, I am the only one that visits this and other websites. Having grown up in a fishing community, nearly everyone I know locally is either a rec or pro fisherman. So out of a 100 odd people I know quite well, none support a rec fishing licence. I guess I could go and promote that by stating that with AF and and the poeple I know your figures are suddenly skewed.

May I also say, that from speaking to people at the boaties market last weekend we basically got 2 groups of people, those who thought we were government people and came to abuse us (because we had government literature), or people who came to get information. When we explained to the abusive poeple what we stood for we got a lot of support. Why is it that these people seem to always get excluded??? The boaties market was a big eye opener for me. That sort of public interaction is something that I am personally going to promote through ecofishers, because these people should not have to be an exlusive member of a fishing club or internet forum to have their voice heard.

[PinHead]

I have to make comment..who are you doing this for Scott..I notice you say "we'll" in post 397. I smell a rat..who is the "we" ?????????

YOu don't get it do you Scott..we already pay for fisheries items..it is called the PPV..it was introduced after the Burns inquiry..and you want to add another fee on top of the one we already have.

But I guess there is no spot for someone that wants to big note themselves on some board and pocket some funds from the license fee. Your website certainly gives that attitude.

I may even go to the Sunfish craptalk myself and voice my concerns..I may get thrown out but the buggers will sure as hell hear me.

[finga]

If we modelled a Qld general recreational Fishing license on the NSW model - IT IS LAW / LEGISLATED that ALL of the money raised via the license fees goes into a transparent trust accounts - that is managed by committees made up mostly from recreational anglers

This is a User pays system - BUT NEEDS TO BE CLEARLY IMPLAMENTED BASED ON THE NSW MODEL !



Regards Scotto


the trusts are transparent & audited annually, You can get a copy of the annual budget from NSW DPI&F.

REMEMBER - The PROPOSAL is to SUPPORT a general recreational angling licence BASED ONLY ON THE NSW MODEL :-
Regards Scotto



If you are serious about understanding alternatives to what is currently on offer - you really should do some research. In NSW they borrowed $20,000,000 from treasury to buy out ALL of the commercial effort from the designated RFH's to proved an IMEDIATE benefit to NSW recreational anglers - this was a loan & will be paid back in time - while still allowing a reasonable surplus to allow other beneficial activities to be paid for ie: research , more inspectors etc


The NSW license has been in place for many years now & I do not believe recreational angling has dropped off or become less popular in that time - if anything the evidence is of the contrary !


Regards Scotto


Give me a brake - if it was any more transparent you'd hit your head on it :P

I have put all the relevant links up to answer the questions to date & I am just waiting on actual figures to come back from DPI&F on total revenue raised , break down on license sales & the allocated standard budget to NSW DPI&F from public revenue. The license fee is used solely ON TOP of the departments budget ;)



Regards Scotto


If it was legislated THE SAME AS THE NSW model - The government CAN NOT spend it


I'm going fishing - Scotto


As I have stated from the outset - I propose a general license based on the NSW model as a proven system for raising funds to manage a resource with significant rec angler contribution as to how it is spent & managed.


Regards Scotto


Couldn't get an itemised break down other than projects mentioned under each current trust fund. You can view the trust fund reports @ http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/licence-fee/trusts/trust-fund-reports
Still a more transparent system than what we have currently in Qld ;)

Regards Scotto


If you can't see the benifits of the having a rec license "along" the lines of the NSW model proposed over what we current have here in Qld - I rest my case ::)


Regards Scotto



Nothing has changed through out this thread - the same half a dozen vocal members dead against it are still dead against it & make the most noise. BUT there are enough in favour of seeing change that I believe it is worth pursuing ;)

The NSW system is still only a "guide/model" the expenditure can be driven towards what the majority of those prepared to have a say want to see happen. The expenditure committees are given feedback from their respective areas & associations.

Regards Scott
Well were do I start??
All this conjecture started out to be based on the transparent NSW system. Now it's been downgraded to "along the lines of" and then "guide/model"
Your not getting soft on the idea are you Scotto?? ::)

You stated there was about $20,000,000 borrowed initially to do a buy out of commercial licenses.
This money has not been paid back in 15 years and as far as I can see no further buy-outs have occurred..sad especially seeing the money that has been raised (plus the usual contribution from general revenue). I hope I can be proven wrong on this.
"I have put all the relevant links up to answer the questions to date & I am just waiting on actual figures to come back from DPI&F on total revenue raised , break down on license sales & the allocated standard budget to NSW DPI&F from public revenue. The license fee is used solely ON TOP of the departments budget"
Have the comprehensive financial statement come in yet or are the only accountable, transparent figures found are those quoted on the below link that was questioned by Chris and others including myself?
I wished my books for the ATO could have been that 'transparent' when I was working :-X
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/277755/trust-fund-report-2007-08.pdf
Interesting to also note: The total external cost incurred in the production of the NSW DPI’s 2007- 08 Annual Report is $35 519.00. (item 22). Does that mean the report cost an extra $35,519 over what is classed as management costs??

The government CAN NOT spend it
They have matey. Over $1,500,000 spent on fisheries inspectors. They report directly to NSW government departments and have a NSW government badge on their utes. I reckon that's money spent on government business.
I also thought I read somewhere where the inspectors were going to be 'subsidised' by the license fee for a few years. 15 years later and they're still 'subsidised'
How many of the projects funded by the licenses are projects that councils should be responsible for ie cleaning tables, boat ramps, carpark lighting etc??
Councils are a level of government...just below state.

Mate, you say the same half a dozen vocal members dead against it are still dead against it & make the most noise. BUT there are enough in favour of seeing change that I believe it is worth pursuing
I see one or two blokes wanting the change if it was based on the NSW model..one is yourself.
Maybe people are reading what the 'vocal dozen' are trying to say and could not be bothered to re-iterate.
Maybe the couple of supporters of the license have changed their minds because I have not heard from anyone else for awhile
It would be very interesting if the poll had a time line feature.
I reckon at first the swing was heading towards saying yep...but after some information getting out I reckon the swing is going to the nay verdict now

You have asked for other suggestions on fisheries management.
Everyone that knows the Northern Territory alternative seems to agree it works fairly well.
Maybe some ideas along the lines of the NT system might be a good start if people like it??
I don not know anything about that system so I cannot comment.

People see the flaws in the NSW system. Legislated 'transparency' is, but, one major problem.

[Spaniard_King]

Scott,

I would have to agree with TheRealAndy. Most of the locals I speak to around my neck of the woods know nothing of what goes on untill it's released or they get finned.

How on earth can anyone proclaim to represent them?

[PinHead]

There are still a lot that don't know about the green zones Garry.

[finga]

Scott,

I would have to agree with TheRealAndy. Most of the locals I speak to around my neck of the woods know nothing of what goes on untill it's released or they get finned.

How on earth can anyone proclaim to represent them?


There are still a lot that don't know about the green zones Garry.
Are you referring to the NSW locals or the QLDer's Gary??
I know in Evans a lot of locals have not got a clue what's going on until it released or they get fined (if the sponsored inspectors turn up) as you've mentioned.

[Greg P]

NSW model looks like a real gravy train. I can see why you are pushing so hard to get a helping.

[Lovey80]

Scott, could you kindly post the links to the sites/threads you are refering to that have these magical support figures for the fishing licence? I just have to know what they have been fed or should I say not been fed to come up with such figures

It would be interesting to know how this poll would look right now if my post on page 26 of the thread happened to be the first reply to this thread on page 1? And that was just a quick look at the surface without diving into how the cash was spent in each project. That requires a bit more digging of which I don't care to do as my point is served just looking at the surface. Of course a lot of NSW Anglers are happy with the licence, how many would be bothered looking up that stuff?

Remeber Scott I am one of the ones sort of on your side of the fence. I was before hand and still remain a supporter of a fishing licence but am vehemently opposed to one on the NSW model for obvious reasons.

Happy fishing

Cheers

Chris

[Scott Mitchell]

Scott, could you kindly post the links to the sites/threads you are referring to that have these magical support figures for the fishing licence? I just have to know what they have been fed or should I say not been fed to come up with such figures

It would be interesting to know how this poll would look right now if my post on page 26 of the thread happened to be the first reply to this thread on page 1? And that was just a quick look at the surface without diving into how the cash was spent in each project. That requires a bit more digging of which I don't care to do as my point is served just looking at the surface. Of course a lot of NSW Anglers are happy with the licence, how many would be bothered looking up that stuff?

Remember Scott I am one of the ones sort of on your side of the fence. I was before hand and still remain a supporter of a fishing licence but am vehemently opposed to one on the NSW model for obvious reasons.

Happy fishing

Cheers

Chris

I do not have figures on current support for the NSW fishing license. I do however fish & talk with plenty of NSW anglers - who believe the license has dramatically improved their fishing in NSW. This is NOT across the board & I never said the system was perfect - BUT I am a realist & do not see the government providing enough funding to do the job. The Rec license in NSW HAS DONE A LOT to improve rec fishing with-in the state. No matter if your in favour of some of the projects or not - most would not have happened with out it.

If I believed that the Qld government would take note of the importance of rec fishing & the associated industries to provide enough funding & support to sustainable manage it - I would not be "floating" this idea.

I fully agree that the government has received plenty of revenue from our associated industy fee's through rego , fuel , GST etc - BUT they ARE NOT putting enough back to sustainably manage our fisheries. I do not see this changing - if anything I believe we will see allocated funding to DPI&F cut back over the next few years. I do not believe that lobbying for a fair go is going to help us ?

So if we can introduce a system where ALL of the money can be placed into trust accounts & the expenditure of those trust accounts is signed off be rec anglers - how can we not be better off. Rather than picking the NSW system apart - why not add how it can be improved ;)

Or sit back and wait for the government to provide the "promised" cash cow - and whinge around the chat boards, boat ramps & pubs - about how hard done by we all are ::)

I am going fishing - Scotto

[PinHead]

some people just do not get it..in 1994 the Govt big noted themselves after the Burns report was tabled. All I want is for them to use the funds from this where it is supposed to go..not fund Sunfish or any other group with it...put it into physical items for our benefit.
Adding another fee on top of one we already pay..and that would go where?

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/policies/Fishing%20-%20Recreational%20-%20Image4.pdf


and how about stop pushing barrows in favour of another tax on chat boards..we already pay a tax to go fishing or is that too difficult to comprehend.

[PinHead]

I do not have figures on current support for the NSW fishing license. I do however fish & talk with plenty of NSW anglers - who believe the license has dramatically improved their fishing in NSW. This is NOT across the board & I never said the system was perfect - BUT I am a realist & do not see the government providing enough funding to do the job. The Rec license in NSW HAS DONE A LOT to improve rec fishing with-in the state. No matter if your in favour of some of the projects or not - most would not have happened with out it.

If I believed that the Qld government would take note of the importance of rec fishing & the associated industries to provide enough funding & support to sustainable manage it - I would not be "floating" this idea.

I fully agree that the government has received plenty of revenue from our associated industy fee's through rego , fuel , GST etc - BUT they ARE NOT putting enough back to sustainably manage our fisheries. I do not see this changing - if anything I believe we will see allocated funding to DPI&F cut back over the next few years. I do not believe that lobbying for a fair go is going to help us ?

So if we can introduce a system where ALL of the money can be placed into trust accounts & the expenditure of those trust accounts is signed off be rec anglers - how can we not be better off. Rather than picking the NSW system apart - why not add how it can be improved ;)

Or sit back and wait for the government to provide the "promised" cash cow - and whinge around the chat boards, boat ramps & pubs - about how hard done by we all are ::)

I am going fishing - Scotto


only if those rec anglers did the signing gratis. Not one cent should go top anyone on that board..just people dipping into the honey pot at the expense of others.

[Spaniard_King]

Are you referring to the NSW locals or the QLDer's Gary??
I know in Evans a lot of locals have not got a clue what's going on until it released or they get fined (if the sponsored inspectors turn up) as you've mentioned.

Both Scott,

IMO the only way to get the message thru to fisho's would be via the tackleshops, electronic forums just touch a fraction of the actual numbers involved.

[finga]

I do not have figures on current support for the NSW fishing license. I do however fish & talk with plenty of NSW anglers - who believe the license has dramatically improved their fishing in NSW.
I am going fishing - Scotto
I have a heaps of mates and family in the north coast who say otherwise.
So who's right and who's wrong?
About all they've seen in 15 years is a cleaning table at Ballina and a walking track at Evans that mainly tourists and surfie dudes use.

[Scott Mitchell]

Both Scott,

IMO the only way to get the message thru to fisho's would be via the tackleshops, electronic forums just touch a fraction of the actual numbers involved.

I was running a tackle shop through out the whole introduction period of the rec license in NSW & can tell you that MOST where in favour - I actually believe if you ran an independent survey in NSW that you would find that this number has probably increased.

The next Poll I might run will be how often do Ausfish members actually go fishing ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

But I guess there is no spot for someone that wants to big note themselves on some board and pocket some funds from the license fee. Your website certainly gives that attitude.

I may even go to the Sunfish craptalk myself and voice my concerns..I may get thrown out but the buggers will sure as hell hear me.



Please Explain ::)

And you should join Sunfish & explain what needs to be done from your point of view - If you don;t communicate with them - how will they ever get the message ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

I have a heaps of mates and family in the north coast who say otherwise.
So who's right and who's wrong?

About all they've seen in 15 years is a cleaning table at Ballina and a walking track at Evans that mainly tourists and surfie dudes use.



So none of them fish in the RFH's - or do any don't believe the fishing has improved ?

Or they don't go offshore & fish around the fad's ?

Or benefited from better general fisheries research on the main target species through out the state ?

Did they ever attend a public consultation meetings ?

Have they ever written to their local member with concerns over rec fishing in their area ?

Are they members of any fishing clubs or associations ?

I do agree it is hard to get rec anglers to contribute - so what is the answer ?

Regards Scotto

[mowerman]

Nothing has changed through out this thread - the same half a dozen vocal members dead against it are still dead against it & make the most noise. BUT there are enough in favour of seeing change that I believe it is worth pursuing ;)


I'll sit down & count up the number of posts per member through out this thread at some stage ;)

Regards Scott

Frankly Scott I cant see the point in rehashing and repeating what "the same half a dozen vocal members" have already posted. And most of them can say it a lot better than I can.
Maybe I should start another poll.

Who agrees with "the same half a dozen vocal members" in the "What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?" thread, but dont post because their thoughts have already been expressed by another member.

Nice title I think.

Rod

[mowerman]

Are they members of any fishing clubs or associations ?



Regards Scotto

This question is another reason why Sunfish are on the nose.

They dont want to know about you unless you are a member of a fishing club or assoc.

And mate, I can drink all the beer and talk all the crap I want without having to pay to be a club member. And go fishing when I feel like it.


Rod

[dayoo]

I have been noting the comments on this thread with interest and a smile on my face. I am not a member of any fishing club or association at the moment but would be prepared to join echofishers Qld as soom as my commitments to the RRFF review are completed.

Scotto, you will quickly learn after attending your first Hervey Bay Sunfish meeting that many sunfish members are not in favour of a general recreational fishing licence particularly in your neck of the woods.

I and the other recreational members of the RRFF review are aware that a general fishing licence is not contemplated by Fisheries so any talk on this subject is a waste of time at the moment. We are working with sunfish, ecofishers Qld and Fisheries to come up with a proposal to monitor the long term sustainability of RRFF species particularly snapper in SEQ. At the moment this is an urgent priority according to Fisheries scientists.

If Fisheries cannot fund the monitoring program then we may be in favour of a small fee per boat or fisher to fund the monitoring program but any money collected must be held in Trust and administered by a partnership between Fisheries, Ecofishers Qld and Sunfish.

My personal opinion is that any money collected from any proposed permit fees and existing boat registration fees should be spent on Fisheries core business like research, monitoring, enforcement and education. Any surplus funds could then go to FADS or Artificial reefs.

Money spent on upgrading facilities at boat ramps is a Council responsibility in conjunction with funding from the State Government. The State Government announced that funds would be provided to upgrade boat ramps and associated facilities like pick up pontoons, lighting and cleaning tables and bins. Councils need to get off their collective arses and apply for the necessary funds to build the upgrades.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers
Barry

[finga]

So none of them fish in the RFH's - or do any don't believe the fishing has improved ?
They fish the one at Ballina BUT it has not improved the fishing
Most of it was always to shallow for the trawlers to go there anyways

Or they don't go offshore & fish around the fad's ?
We cannot get out of the Evans bar to get to the FAD except for on the rare occasion and we do not fish the fad's. We have our own little spots well away from the general populous. Money spent on the bar would have benefited the rec fisho's more then a walking track.
IMO FAD's are great. Everyone goes to them thinking fish are everywhere...even if the FAD is not there.... like it is at the moment.
That leaves our regular spots people free ;D

Or benefited from better general fisheries research on the main target species through out the state ?
Don't know....We see a decline in catch rates and have never had a stocking release to my knowledge
We have been in the area for about 4 or 5 generations and my grandad was good fishing mates with Mr Frogley from Alstonville (do you know who he was?) so we kinda know the local trends and catch rates. We don't have to rely on a report that cost a motza.

Did they ever attend a public consultation meetings ?
Never known about them to attend
Have they ever written to their local member with concerns over rec fishing in their area ?
No. Never written to him but have spoken to him on numerous occasions (along with lots of other people) to try and remedy the Evans bar for a start.
The bar is dangerous...boats go over all the time and in fact every year when the Evans Head Classic is on the locals go and watch the ring-in's go over. At least 2 every year.
The bar fiasco has been going on for years and years.

Are they members of any fishing clubs or associations ?
Why?? Didn't know you had to be to be a recreational angler.
I thought this was about recreational anglers and what percentage of those are a member of a club or association??

I do agree it is hard to get rec anglers to contribute - so what is the answer ?
Look at the NT model. You might get an idea...might not too

Regards Scotto
These RFH's thingo's..... When was the last time you looked at one of the green zone maps for Moreton Bay??
Those yellow spots...what are they?? They take up about 8% of The Bay.
There's no trawling or netting allowed so that would have to restrict a fair whack of the commercial guys...and for no more then we're paying now.

[mowerman]

Mate, I was down at Evans yesterday for a family do in the park.

Went for a wander out to the bar. Even with bugger all swell it didnt look to good.

Seems like a bit of dredging would come in handy.

But, which trust fund would pay for that.


Rod

[Scott Mitchell]

This question is another reason why Sunfish are on the nose.

They dont want to know about you unless you are a member of a fishing club or assoc.

And mate, I can drink all the beer and talk all the crap I want without having to pay to be a club member. And go fishing when I feel like it.


Rod

The reason I asked about club membership - is because I understand that the peak bodies should have a communication system in place to inform members of these groups ;)

Otherwise how do you best get the information out to the "grass root" anglers ?

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

These RFH's thingo's..... When was the last time you looked at one of the green zone maps for Moreton Bay??
Those yellow spots...what are they?? They take up about 8% of The Bay.
There's no trawling or netting allowed so that would have to restrict a fair whack of the commercial guys...and for no more then we're paying now.


Well everything is just fine then & the marine parks are obviously a bonus - I don't know why I bother ::)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

If Fisheries cannot fund the monitoring program then we may be in favour of a small fee per boat or fisher to fund the monitoring program but any money collected must be held in Trust and administered by a partnership between Fisheries, Ecofishers Qld and Sunfish.

Cheers
Barry



Then we can set up more monitoring programs & charge a "small" fee for each one ie: Snapper, bream , whiting, mackerel , tuna etc

Regards Scotto

[dayoo]

Then we can set up more monitoring programs & charge a "small" fee for each one ie: Snapper, bream , whiting, mackerel , tuna etc

Regards Scotto

Scotto,

Fisheries have been informed that we would not agree to separate fees per species. A fee per boat or per fisher could initially cover all Rocky Reef species with monitoring of snapper in the first few years. Fisheries could even adopt the WA model of a boat fishing fee per fisher to cover all offshore species with funds collected placed in trust and jointly administered by Fisheries and representatives from Sunfish and Ecofishers Qld.

A general fishing licence for everyone who wants to wet a line is not on the agenda at the moment .

Cheers
Barry

[finga]

Well everything is just fine then & the marine parks are obviously a bonus - I don't know why I bother ::)

Regards Scotto
How about you tell us what's wrong with the way things are run now then.
We have tried to show you where the NSW system lags...but you cannot see it.
So, how about telling us why the system needs to be changed.

[Scott Mitchell]

How about you tell us what's wrong with the way things are run now then.
We have tried to show you where the NSW system lags...but you cannot see it.
So, how about telling us why the system needs to be changed.



I agree the NSW system is not perfect - BUT it is providing better no-strings-attached funding than what we currently have in Qld. I also believe the way the current Qld government is travelling we'll see reductions & job cuts in the DPI&F departments over the coming years. It's all about money & DPI&F NEED funding to get the job done. I am also a BIG supporter of RFH's & would love to see the Great Sandy Straights made one - along with other suitable high rec use waterways.

Outside of the many projects that could be achieved with funding - I place independent research as the No1 priority ! No good getting to the bottom of the barrel before we start looking out how to fill it again. They're already looking at species specific fee's & boat fee's - why - BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO MONEY ;)

YES - we pay our rego's & they collect our money in GST from ALL the associated industries around fishing & boating - BUT are we getting or likely to get increases to support rec fishing from these areas ? I don't believe so ?

So how do we provide better funding to do what we can ALL see needs doing ?

I still "propose" a Rec license that See's ALL of the money raised going into TRUST ACCOUNTS - that are then managed by REC angling bodies or associations, with in-put from the wider angling community. ( Lets leave the NSW model out this time round & tweak it based on the perceived flaws mentioned hear ;) ).

Or we can continue to lobby government for a fair go & better allocation of funds from what they have already taken from us - even promised ::)

Regards Scotto

[Chamelion]

Any plan that involves the removal of netting in Queensland waterways will get my vote. I've no problem in ponying up some dough for a yearly fishing permit.

My only real concerns are that it'll have to have some sort of negative impact on the local tackle economy when it becomes tourist season. I don't think that your holidaying mum and dad will be too keen to fork out all that money. For example 6 people at $? each for a couple of hours fishing on the odd occasion just doesn't seem workable.

My other concern is related to how funds would be managed. I have zero faith in government departments when it comes to managing money.

[PinHead]

I have been noting the comments on this thread with interest and a smile on my face. I am not a member of any fishing club or association at the moment but would be prepared to join echofishers Qld as soom as my commitments to the RRFF review are completed.

Scotto, you will quickly learn after attending your first Hervey Bay Sunfish meeting that many sunfish members are not in favour of a general recreational fishing licence particularly in your neck of the woods.

I and the other recreational members of the RRFF review are aware that a general fishing licence is not contemplated by Fisheries so any talk on this subject is a waste of time at the moment. We are working with sunfish, ecofishers Qld and Fisheries to come up with a proposal to monitor the long term sustainability of RRFF species particularly snapper in SEQ. At the moment this is an urgent priority according to Fisheries scientists.

If Fisheries cannot fund the monitoring program then we may be in favour of a small fee per boat or fisher to fund the monitoring program but any money collected must be held in Trust and administered by a partnership between Fisheries, Ecofishers Qld and Sunfish.

My personal opinion is that any money collected from any proposed permit fees and existing boat registration fees should be spent on Fisheries core business like research, monitoring, enforcement and education. Any surplus funds could then go to FADS or Artificial reefs.

Money spent on upgrading facilities at boat ramps is a Council responsibility in conjunction with funding from the State Government. The State Government announced that funds would be provided to upgrade boat ramps and associated facilities like pick up pontoons, lighting and cleaning tables and bins. Councils need to get off their collective arses and apply for the necessary funds to build the upgrades.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers
Barry

Barry..a lot of the ramps are still under State Govt control and some have been "given" to the local councils. A pity there is not more money available at present for funding of these ramp upgrades but apparently the Govt "needs" the funds elsewhere.

[Scott Mitchell]

Scotto,

Fisheries have been informed that we would not agree to separate fees per species. A fee per boat or per fisher could initially cover all Rocky Reef species with monitoring of snapper in the first few years. Fisheries could even adopt the WA model of a boat fishing fee per fisher to cover all offshore species with funds collected placed in trust and jointly administered by Fisheries and representatives from Sunfish and Ecofishers Qld.

A general fishing licence for everyone who wants to wet a line is not on the agenda at the moment .

Cheers
Barry

Barry - Introducing a boat permit or individual fee per fisher TO SPECIFICALLY fish for snapper IS A VERY BAD POSITION to place rec anglers in - Just my view :o

Any one involved In fisheries will understand that rec anglers DO NOT HAVE the figures to debate our position against the charter boat & commercial effort. So now they want us to PAY to be monitored to provide them with the research THEY CANT AFFORD ;)

If the snapper debacle See's rec anglers stung with a boat or individual permit to fish for snapper - for potentially 5-10 years IT IS THE BEGINING OF THE END :-X

Just my view - Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

Barry - Introducing a boat permit or individual fee per fisher TO SPECIFICALLY fish for snapper IS A VERY BAD POSITION to place rec anglers in - Just my view :o

Any one involved In fisheries will understand that rec anglers DO NOT HAVE the figures to debate our position against the charter boat & commercial effort. So now they want us to PAY to be monitored to provide them with the research THEY CANT AFFORD ;)

If the snapper debacle See's rec anglers stung with a boat or individual permit to fish for snapper - for potentially 5-10 years IT IS THE BEGINING OF THE END :-X

Just my view - Scotto

That is the general view across the board.

[dayoo]

Scotto,

What you have stated is what we have told Fisheries.

There are really only two alternatives:

1. Snapper catch cards, small RRFF fee held in Trust account, data collection by partnership between Fisheries and recognised rec anglers associations OR

2. 4 month closure and possible reduction of bag limit.

A 4 month closure covering June and July would wipe out snapper fishing in Hervey Bay.

You will have a chance to put forward your opinion at a Port meeting next year.

Cheers
Barry

[deepfried]

dayoo what i am going to post below is by no means a dig at you. You are obviously dedicated to fishing and all involved. But i have to bring this up.

The silence on this thread to dayoo's post has shocked me to say the least. We have 29 pages of responses and most are negative to a licence and then there is a post that states that a fee may be charged for fish monitoring etc from some one in the know. What ? no one has anything negative to say after all the We Dont Want Another Tax. Seriously i now have to wonder why all the slamming and digging for dirt that has gone on is about. Read again you may be charged a fee and no one has anything to say. Since some have brought up ulterior motives heres one, it looks to me like this whole thread to some is more about sunfish v ecofishers qld which isnt the best way to push ecofishers qld's cause. well done fellas. By the way i am a member of ecofishers NSW which i am proud of because of the way they go about business.

You may be charged a fee......... and then silence.

[PinHead]

dayoo what i am going to post below is by no means a dig at you. You are obviously dedicated to fishing and all involved. But i have to bring this up.

The silence on this thread to dayoo's post has shocked me to say the least. We have 29 pages of responses and most are negative to a licence and then there is a post that states that a fee may be charged for fish monitoring etc from some one in the know. What ? no one has anything negative to say after all the We Dont Want Another Tax. Seriously i now have to wonder why all the slamming and digging for dirt that has gone on is about. Read again you may be charged a fee and no one has anything to say. Since some have brought up ulterior motives heres one, it looks to me like this whole thread to some is more about sunfish v ecofishers qld which isnt the best way to push ecofishers qld's cause. well done fellas. By the way i am a member of ecofishers NSW which i am proud of because of the way they go about business.

You may be charged a fee......... and then silence.

the responses regarding charging a fee for snapper fishing are in another thread.. I am against any extra taxes until there is clear and concise use of the current PPV..and I notice that 140k of our PPV goes to Sunfish..more parasite on the gravy train...there is the first wastage of our money that should be abolished.

I make no apologies for my stance on this..When the green zones were proposed Sunfish just dropped their duds and bent over..they do not represent us..they are just puppets of the Govt and using our money..bunch of gutless wonders is all they are.


Abolish Sunfish and get some people with some balls into the equation..the Sunfish folk are just cruising on the gravy train.

[TimiBoy]

dayoo what i am going to post below is by no means a dig at you. You are obviously dedicated to fishing and all involved. But i have to bring this up.

The silence on this thread to dayoo's post has shocked me to say the least. We have 29 pages of responses and most are negative to a licence and then there is a post that states that a fee may be charged for fish monitoring etc from some one in the know. What ? no one has anything negative to say after all the We Dont Want Another Tax. Seriously i now have to wonder why all the slamming and digging for dirt that has gone on is about. Read again you may be charged a fee and no one has anything to say. Since some have brought up ulterior motives heres one, it looks to me like this whole thread to some is more about sunfish v ecofishers qld which isnt the best way to push ecofishers qld's cause. well done fellas. By the way i am a member of ecofishers NSW which i am proud of because of the way they go about business.

You may be charged a fee......... and then silence.

Yes, it's been done to death elsewhere. We have been pushed around and threatened over the apparent demise of Snapper stocks, and have been given an ultimatum of sorts. Barry may want to elaborate, or you could go and read the thread.

Tim

[dayoo]

Deepfried,

The situation on the RRFF (snapper) review is explained in my Thread dated 30 September 2009 and in previous threads. A full explanation of the present situation may be published in a well known monthly Fishing Magazine next month.

Myself and two other recreational reps on the RRFF working group have spent in total over 100 hours in discussions and arguments with Fisheries on this subject. Reps from Sunfish and Ecofishers Qld have been present at the technical meetings.

I notice you are from Ballina where the snapper bag limit is 10. After 2011 there may be an influx of Queenslanders fishing for snapper in NSW provided NSW Fisheries don't decide to have a snapper review;) .

Most thinking regular recreational anglers up here that I have spoken to would prefer to participate in the monitoring of their snapper catches and pay a small permit fee than be locked out of the fishery for 4 months. Especially when the money will go to a trust to monitor recreational catch figures.

Public forums will be conducted next year to gauge what the majority of recreational anglers think including all those not affiliated with any fishing organisation.

Go and read my previous threads on this subject before you contemplate any reply.

Cheers
Barry

[deepfried]

Was i talking about you guys ??? :P

And yes i am aware there is another thread about this topic. It seems staying to the threads topic only applies when it suits some some of the time.

Pin head, Slamming sunfish even if it is deserved is not a good way to promote Ecofishers Qld. Ecofishers Qld will be a success by getting runs on the board and proving it is the best voice for rec fishos in a professional manner, that includes its higher profile members. If they do this and i hope they do you wont have to worry about sunfish. Theres and old swiss saying, Take the paddle out of the pail and the cream rises to the top. Leave the paddle in and you get butter.

Edit. I was typing this before i saw your post dayoo. As i stated above my previous post is not aimed at you. I have read the other thread and understand the position that you are facing and am aware of the responses. My previous post was to as much to raise an issue with sunfish bashing as it was to bring up your post on the previous page in this thread. Yes i could have left it to the responses on your thread but as some members feel a need to spread there views into every thread regardless of the question i thought why not. Maybe not smart but by no means a dig at you or the work you have done.
As for qlders fishing down here, that would take some humble pie eating wouldnt it, but anyway it would be good for our economy so go for it. Just remember to pay your licence fee ;D

[FNQCairns]

Was i talking about you guys ??? :P

And yes i am aware there is another thread about this topic. It seems staying to the threads topic only applies when it suits some some of the time.

Pin head slamming sunfish even if it is deserved is not a good way to promote Ecofishers Qld. Ecofishers Qld will be a success by getting runs on the board and proving it is the best voice for rec fishos in a professional manner, that includes its higher profile members. If they do this and i hope they do you wont have to worry about sunfish. Theres and old swiss saying, Take the paddle out of the pail and the cream rises to the top. Leave the paddle in and you get butter.

Edit. I was typing this before i saw your post dayoo. As i stated above my previous post is not aimed at you. I have read the other thread and understand the position that you are facing and am aware of the responses. My previous post was to as much to raise an issue with sunfish bashing as it was to bring up your post on the previous page in this thread. Yes i could have left it to the responses on your thread but as some members feel a need to spread there views into every thread regardless of the question i thought why not. Maybe not smart but by no means a dig at you or the work you have done.
As for qlders fishing down here, that would take some humble pie eating wouldnt it, but anyway it would be good for our economy so go for it. Just remember to pay your licence fee ;D

Re my red highlight...Why?

I don't think (but dunno) that pinhead was trying specificly to promote ecofishers and besides why does promotion of one include a gag on free speech on another.

There is some ratbag theoretical politics in this thread.

cheers fnq

[deepfried]

Re my red highlight...Why? Basic business, i dont go around bagging my oppostion in business i just focus on my businesses strenghts. Best to highlight your / your groups strenghts and let the punters base a decision on that. No need to bag the the other party if your product / orrganisation or what ever it may be is better. Let the facts do the talking. Going a bit hippy here but it is a lot like yin and yang. If your yin they're yang or if you be the good guy and they become the bad. Bit weird but thats what you get when you have worked for a wealthy china man.

I don't think (but dunno) that pinhead was trying specificly to promote ecofishers and besides why does promotion of one include a gag on free speech on another.
Maybe he can answer if he is a member of ecofishers ? Other than that it is based on my reply above, its just not the way to promote ecofishers as that is what appears to be the motive. If i am wrong, sorry.

There is some ratbag theoretical politics in this thread.
If you are talking conspiracy theories here you are going loopy. I am not a member of any qld fishing groups but am a member of ecofishers nsw. I dont care who is top dog up there, only that whoever it may be is run by level headed people and helps bring about a better outcome for fishos.
If you mean ratbag in the simplest form you may be right. I could just be stirring and bringing up an observation in a ratbag way.
cheers fnq

All in all i could be wrong but i do get a feeling that if this issue had been raised by a member of Eco or whoever, someone other than a Sunfish member the responses my have been a little different. Yes those not in favour would still oppose it but maybe would have voiced that in a different manner.
Rightly or wrongly, even though it has been said it is not on the cards atm a rec licence will come up at some time in Qld. If done right and debated in an effective manner Qld could end up with the best model of all but not with what has gone on through this thread. Maybe a thread is not the best way to come up with a model but it did bring up some interesting points.

[sleepygreg]

The queenslanders are talking from a base of strength....because they won the State of Origin. Therefore any talk of anything that has a NSW taint to it will always be negatives.....maybe the site should be renamed QLDfish...just so every member here knows where they stand. Apologies to our Vic, SA, Tas, WA, NT and international members for airing our dirty laundry.

[Lovey80]

All in all i could be wrong but i do get a feeling that if this issue had been raised by a member of Eco or whoever, someone other than a Sunfish member the responses my have been a little different. Yes those not in favour would still oppose it but maybe would have voiced that in a different manner.

I think if the thread had of been started by an ECO rep then the negative responses received would have been taken on board a hell of a lot better in the early stages (as the ECO member would have been taking on board input from an audience he is attempting to represent).

But as Scott has continued to beat the drum on a Licence system that has serious flaws the voices got louder and less forgiving (except for Pinhead he's always as blunt as a sledge hammer).

I am now an ECO member (not an active role player) I became a member purely because I felt, I needed to be heard by gov't after being Betrayed by Sunfish on the MBMP and that the ECO model of being completly detached from Gov't influence (corruption) is exactly the type of voice I want. Sure down the track ECO may make decisions that I will disagree with, but they certainly won't be because Captain Bligh said so.

Cheers

Chris

[Scott Mitchell]

But as Scott has continued to beat the drum on a Licence system that has serious flaws the voices got louder and less forgiving (except for Pinhead he's always as blunt as a sledge hammer).

Cheers

Chris



Chris at this time there are 8 votes difference on this thread - have a read on Sunfish's stance in their latest magazine ;)

I am finally going fishing now - Scotto

[deepfried]

The queenslanders are talking from a base of strength....because they won the State of Origin. Therefore any talk of anything that has a NSW taint to it will always be negatives.....maybe the site should be renamed QLDfish...just so every member here knows where they stand. Apologies to our Vic, SA, Tas, WA, NT and international members for airing our dirty laundry.

There was no way i was game to bring that up as well. A bit hard when you also come from the loosing state. :)

[finga]

All in all i could be wrong but i do get a feeling that if this issue had been raised by a member of Eco or whoever, someone other than a Sunfish member the responses my have been a little different. Yes those not in favour would still oppose it but maybe would have voiced that in a different manner.
Rightly or wrongly, even though it has been said it is not on the cards atm a rec licence will come up at some time in Qld. If done right and debated in an effective manner Qld could end up with the best model of all but not with what has gone on through this thread. Maybe a thread is not the best way to come up with a model but it did bring up some interesting points.
This issue was brought up by me a while ago.
A similar response was shown to me as the responses in this thread.
I considered the information presented to me and made my own mind up on what the go was.
I saw the error of my ways and was grateful that I was educated.
This thread has dragged on because a member is one eyed and cannot see reality



The queenslanders are talking from a base of strength....because they won the State of Origin. Therefore any talk of anything that has a NSW taint to it will always be negatives.....maybe the site should be renamed QLDfish...just so every member here knows where they stand. Apologies to our Vic, SA, Tas, WA, NT and international members for airing our dirty laundry.
No...not a basis of strength Greg. A basis of fact.
This thread, and poll, was about a license to be introduced into QLD based on the NSW system of transparency to expenditures financed by the license fund.
The plain truth of the matter is that the NSW system is about as transparent as a nun's nighty.
The plain truth is that the NSW license IS funding projects that should be funded by state and local governments.
The plain truth is MY fishing at Evans has not improved after paying a license for 15 years.
The plain truth is that, in my local area, the fund financed a walking track that is used mainly (if not exclusively) by tourists and surfie dudes and a fad we cannot use (if it was even there...which it isn't) because we cannot get out the bar safely.
Apparently it also funded a fishing haven at Ballina too. A fishing haven where the commercial guys could not go anyway due to a cable ferry crossing and bridges and just plain shallowness of the waters that exist there.
So what have I (and the whole fishing population of north coast of NSW) got for paying the license for 15 years??

[TheRealAndy]

Chris at this time there are 8 votes difference on this thread - have a read on Sunfish's stance in their latest magazine ;)

I am finally going fishing now - Scotto

And if I could vote for the 100 or so that I know that are computer illiterate then it would be 108 votes in it. IF I also add the number of people that approched us at the Vic point boaties market it would be more. When will you acknowledge that part?

If the 100 people I knew were arguing for the licence, then my opinion here would be totally different...

[finga]

Chris at this time there are 8 votes difference on this thread - ;)

I am finally going fishing now - Scotto
If you change my vote then its 10 votes difference which equates to a voting swing of 6.5 % (taking the non fence sitters into account) so the real figures should be 35.5% of people wanting and a bit over 53% of people not wanting a license.
How many other want to change their vote now having a bit more knowledge about the subject??

[deepfried]

If you change my vote then its 10 votes difference which equates to a voting swing of 6.5 % (taking the non fence sitters into account) so the real figures should be 35.5% of people wanting and a bit over 53% of people not wanting a license.
How many other want to change their vote now having a bit more knowledge about the subject??

Sorry finga but i cant seem to work out your maths on this one. If you change your vote the poll would be as follows : In favour 72, Not in favour 81, alternative view 18. Total votes 171. Now 72 votes from 171 to me comes in at about 41% in favour, 81 votes from 171 comes in at about 47.5% not in favour and 18 alternative views come in at 10.5%. Not completely to the decimal point but i think a true figure. Mate i will even give you the undecided vote and the figure will not be as you stated and if we take them out completely and just base the figure on the yes and no votes we get, 47% in favour and 53% not. Did you take the undecided votes off the yes votes making it 54 in favour and 81 against and then divide by 153 votes. If so why because that is the only way i get the figures you posted even if i use a voting swing methodology and take 6.5% off the in favour vote.

As a side note though when ausfish has 1000's of members and only 171 vote can anyone say that it is representative of anything.

[FNQCairns]

All in all i could be wrong but i do get a feeling that if this issue had been raised by a member of Eco or whoever, someone other than a Sunfish member the responses my have been a little different. Yes those not in favour would still oppose it but maybe would have voiced that in a different manner.
Rightly or wrongly, even though it has been said it is not on the cards atm a rec licence will come up at some time in Qld. If done right and debated in an effective manner Qld could end up with the best model of all but not with what has gone on through this thread. Maybe a thread is not the best way to come up with a model but it did bring up some interesting points.

I do get your point in theory and it is fully in practice within our state parliament although the bloke in the street needs politics without the moderate designer slant, they need a voice irrespective of whether it interrupts the status quo or another's ideological or politicly correct posturing.

I quite simply refuse ANY representation by Sunfish (for what it is worth without a voice), years ago when first arriving in QLD I almost joined until i did some reading around. since then they have most consistently sat on the fence and now with scotts appointment nee passion for bypassing the little anglers (always their fault) within an effort to push a 'higher' political ideology on all (NSW fisherys licence).

From this stage and from within Sunfish ....has me worried for what could be our anglers forced uneducated but fully politicalised future.

I understand that sunfish's power lies with the gross number of unrepresented anglers who are not well educated in the way or what-fors it of why even exists and their free (as in freedom) options....if sunfish did not have this low in character and regulation understanding it would have ceased to exist ages ago.

cheers fnq

[dayoo]

Only 172 Ausfish members bothered to vote out of the approx 20,000 registered members. Of these 74 voted for the poll (43%) and 98 either voted against or had an alternative view (57%).

One cannot then go on to assume that 43% of all recreational anglers are in favour. This is what Fisheries have done in estimating the snapper catch by recreational anglers (i.e. Do a survey of 1% of recreational anglers and assume that this represents the other 99%).

A fishing licence in some form may be introduced in Queensland in the next 10 years but I doubt it will follow the NSW model.;)

Anyway I heading out offshore tonight to do some fishing. A bag out on snapper, pearlies and parrot would be nice;D

Cheers
Barry

[deepfried]

Anyway I heading out offshore tonight to do some fishing. A bag out on snapper, pearlies and parrot would be nice;D


Something that everyone can agree on. Good luck.

[Lovey80]

Barry I don't know how you do it. I would have lost my marbles at Fisheries over this review. Dead set lost it!!! Did you happen to find out where we can get access to these Scientific type reports that show we are in decline on Snapper and how they came up with current and estimated Virgin Biomass? I really want to read that gear so I can see where these clowns are coming from

Cheers

Chris

[FNQCairns]

Barry I don't know how you do it. I would have lost my marbles at Fisheries over this review. Dead set lost it!!! Did you happen to find out where we can get access to these Scientific type reports that show we are in decline on Snapper and how they came up with current and estimated Virgin Biomass? I really want to read that gear so I can see where these clowns are coming from

Cheers

Chris

Oo ooo Ooo I know! have you ever seen a movie, Commando like for instance?

A zealots ideology is his daughter, the kidnappers/terrorists are the Anglers, the government framework facilitates the power/money behind him to effect the rescue/work and Arnie is the governments mercenary for hire...that pretty much sums up the estimation made of our snapper virgin biomass.

The computer algorithm used travels the world to whatever trouble hotspot that will pay the money for work done such is the environmental sciences at this level.

Bang/input a few designer square pegs into it's largely round holes, make many opinionated (not scientificly backup-able) guesses on how to get this particular program/algorithm to work in/on a uniquely different clime and species than the one's it was designed for..... but above all ensure all data imputed and the tweaking made reflects the ideology needed to ensure the premise outputted is of the right sized stun grenade to dazzle all those dumb fisho's enough to effect a coo.

Wish I owned the rights to an algorithm like this, with the gross numbers of Zealot organisations and governmental organisations looking to dazzle their masters and those they master, today the 'for hire' Environmental/natural sciences opinion/outcome industry is a serious gravy train.

After all who is watching? and who could they call anyway...ghost busters::)...Sunfish:P

cheers fnq

[JIMBO99]

jimbo99.
68 years of fishing have taught me that anything with the word licence in it will be taken over by political parties and government eventually.
your first licence will cost say $30 a year next year $45 next year $75 then the government bodies will take over and your next licence will be $200 then $500
my father bought Qld fishing licence "number 3" back in 1919 for one shilling and sixpence. (still got it ) try taking one shilling and sixpence (15 cents) in to the fisheries dept and asking for a licence tomorrow, it should at least get a laugh, but no licence.
No lets leave recreational fishing licences till I'm down there in Brown's gutter with my Father my Mother my Brother my Nephew and Davey Jones. You'll hear us laughing and singing sea shanties as you motor past with your $500 fishing licence and registered boat, your no go rules, the size and bag limits and the tide times book. love JIMBO99

[Scott Mitchell]

Quote - 68 years of fishing have taught me that anything with the word licence in it will be taken over by political parties and government eventually.

your first licence will cost say $30 a year next year $45 next year $75 then the government bodies will take over and your next licence will be $200 then $500

* Hasn't been the case in NSW - gone up $5- in 15 years ;)

my father bought Qld fishing licence "number 3" back in 1919 for one shilling and sixpence. (still got it ) try taking one shilling and sixpence (15 cents) in to the fisheries dept and asking for a licence tomorrow, it should at least get a laugh, but no licence.

* This is why we're in the position of having unsustainable commercial fisheries today - no thought went into who could obtain a commercial license ! Is it actually still in use today ?

No lets leave recreational fishing licences till I'm down there in Brown's gutter with my Father my Mother my Brother my Nephew and Davey Jones. You'll hear us laughing and singing sea shanties as you motor past with your $500 fishing licence and registered boat, your no go rules, the size and bag limits and the tide times book. love JIMBO99.

* A lot of the new rules are to compensate for the mismanagement of the past - BUT is it too late ?

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

direct from my local member:

"The State Government is not considering the introduction of a recreational fishing licence at this time. The State Government's current policy is that this sector is levied through the Private Pleasure Vessel (PPV) levy with annual boat registration and the Stocked Impoundment Permit Scheme for fishing in 33 freshwater dams."

[Scott Mitchell]

direct from my local member:



"The State Government is not considering the introduction of a recreational fishing licence at this time. The State Government's current policy is that this sector is levied through the Private Pleasure Vessel (PPV) levy with annual boat registration and the Stocked Impoundment Permit Scheme for fishing in 33 freshwater dams."



Yeah - we'll start with a species specific program instead :P

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

listen ..I asked my local Member what the Govts views on a license are...there is the answer. Is that too hard to understand????
Now get off the license bandwagon abd go and play all high and mighty with the sunfish puppets.

[Chimo]

Hi Mods

Time to put this thread to bed.

The question has been put and through Pinhead's efforts its been effectively answered so its time for us to use our energy to solve some other issue.

Cheers
Chimo

[Scott Mitchell]

Hi Mods

Time to put this thread to bed.

The question has been put and through Pinhead's efforts its been effectively answered so its time for us to use our energy to solve some other issue.

Cheers
Chimo

This is a "POLL" - I was not after an answer from government - I was after the general feeling from Ausfish members towards how our fisheries in Qld are currently being managed.I believe I set a time frame for the Poll to run & would like to see that happen. There have been recent entries this week - so members are still contributing based on the information presented .

If "your" over it - don't keep coming back rehashing the same arguments ;)

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

listen ..I asked my local Member what the Govts views on a license are...there is the answer. Is that too hard to understand????
Now get off the license bandwagon abd go and play all high and mighty with the sunfish puppets.

Pinhead - This is a public poll - I am NOT interested in what your local member or the government has to say on the issue ;)

If your over it - stop contributing :P

Regards Scotto

[PinHead]

See..you are only interested in people that want to side with your way of thinking..and that is obviously to try and get us another tax. So you reckon that with the introduction of an RFL they will drop the PPV..we already pay for a pseudo license..called a PPV..but I guess that does not have people on a board that get their pockets lined by being on that board.
Is Sunfish paying for you to attend their conference ???

So you are not interested in the Govt's line on an rfl..just go down your own path ..awesome. For once I actrually agree with the Govt on this one. I don;t agree with them on the other questions i asked and the answers i received to them.

[Scott Mitchell]

Pinhead - It is a public POLL - I am interested in the OVERALL result , which shows approx a 50/50% position at present. Based on individual comment any one can see the wider community is not happy with the way our fisheries are currently managed overall - SO HOW TO WE DO IT BETTER ?

I AM NOT pushing any barrows - just looking for realistic/achievable solutions to better fisheries management. I am a financial member of the Fraser Coast Sunfish branch & chairperson - which allows me to attend the AGM & Conference as a delegate. I have changed my work roster to allow me to attend all three days & will travel at my own expense from Hervey Bay. I am serious about seeing better fisheries management in Qld & committed enough to dedicate time & effort to have "MY" say.

Regards Scotto

[Lovey80]

Yep a poll where the vast majority of voters had voted well before they had enough information to make an informEd decision. Talk of transparancy and fishos spending fishos money were thrown about willy nilly. You can be sure the result was severly effected by the lack of info provided.

[Scott Mitchell]

Yep a poll where the vast majority of voters had voted well before they had enough information to make an informEd decision. Talk of transparancy and fishos spending fishos money were thrown about willy nilly. You can be sure the result was severly effected by the lack of info provided.



I do not believe this is the case - there have been a number of votes in favour of a new approach as recently as this week. I have received plenty of PM's & conversations also stating otherwise. Have a look at which members have actually done the most talking through out this thread - same members with the same negative approach/comments.

You don't want to pay for a general license - set up with trust accounts where ALL the money would be spent with direction from expenditure committees made from key recreational anglers from across our state. The NSW model is only an example/proposal showing WHAT CAN BE ACHIEVED - this could be tweaked if needed ;)

Now why wouldn't the government & DPI&F NOT WANT a user pays scheme set up along these lines - Because they loose control !

Rather - we'll continue to lobby the government for a "fair" allocation from the PPV Levy program - increase research that the department CANT afford to do & Introduce species specific "permits" to show that ALL our fisheries are being managed sustainably at present ::)

And we'll become financial members of splintered lobby groups to assist the cause & defuse our numbers ::)

If this snapper permit scheme gets through - It is the beginning of the end team !

Regards Scotto

[dayoo]

Scott,

The recreational members of the RRFF working group have consulted with senior Sunfish members and Ecofishers Qld and have got these two groups along to the technical RRFF meetings this year. Both groups represent recreational anglers and are prepared to use their resources for the common good of recreational anglers.

The NSW licence model is not the best in Australia and if you do your research from the recent snapper stock assessment published in April 2009 you will see that Fisheries is keen to tackle the sustainability of snapper as a priority similar to what has recently happened in WA.

If we keep putting off dealing with the snapper sustainability problem in Queensland we run the risk of having similar regs to WA. One of which restricts snapper bag limit to two fish.

There is a lot of information you are not aware of so please don't try to splinter the two recreation fishing groups in Queensland as both have their place and can work together.

Fisheries scients from NSW and New Zealand were consulted on snapper sustainability and have backed the assessments of their Queensland counterparts.

A general fishing licence is not on the table for discussion in Queensland at the moment and funding from other sources are being investigated.

I personally favour a review of the PPV levy and if further funding cannot be obtained then a saltwater licence in some form may have to be considered as a last resort. If in a few years a general fishing licence wins favour with Fisheries then it can replace any interim specific fee or licence.


Cheers
Barry

[Far side]

No for me

We pay enough Taxes

[Scott Mitchell]

I personally favour a review of the PPV levy and if further funding cannot be obtained then a saltwater licence in some form may have to be considered as a last resort. If in a few years a general fishing licence wins favour with Fisheries then it can replace any interim specific fee or licence.


Cheers Barry



With respect - Barry , this is where I believe we would have problems, once a president is set - I am not confident it would be modified or changed easily ?

I believe you can see that the department has not got enough funding to do the job - And the majority of the rec fishing community don't trust the government to supply more no-strings-attached funding - so how do we raise the funds to do the job & maintain the majority of control over how it is spent ?

I am still not in favour of a species specific permit program & believe it will be the beginning of the end in relation to future shaftings ::)

Regards Scotto

[dayoo]

With respect - Barry , this is where I believe we would have problems, once a president is set - I am not confident it would be modified or changed easily ?

I believe you can see that the department has not got enough funding to do the job - And the majority of the rec fishing community don't trust the government to supply more no-strings-attached funding - so how do we raise the funds to do the job & maintain the majority of control over how it is spent ?

I am still not in favour of a species specific permit program & believe it will be the beginning of the end in relation to future shaftings ::)

Regards Scotto

Scott,

You need to talk to your fellow sunfish members especially the ones that have an influence on Sunfish policy. Like I said earlier Sunfish was represented at the technical meetings of the RRFF and has a member on the working group.
I am not in favour of a species specific permit either but a saltwater boat fishing permit would be more palatible than a general fishing licence if we were given a choice by Fisheries.

Have a good time at the Sunfish conference;D

Cheers
Barry

[Scott Mitchell]

Scott,

I am not in favour of a species specific permit either but a saltwater boat fishing permit would be more palatible than a general fishing licence if we were given a choice by Fisheries.

Cheers
Barry



This is where I don't agree. Fisheries are telling us they need funding to conduct specific research ( est $500,000- ) to understand the true position of the south east snapper fishery - BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. So they want to introduce a species specific permit to raise the funds - which is estimated at approx $30- $60 per angler who wants to go snapper fishing ?

You don't have to be Einstein to work out that fisheries also don't have the funding to do plenty of other research that needs doing either ;)

So why wouldn't we be in favor of introducing a general rec license that sees ALL OF THE MONEY going into trust accounts - with management/ expenditure committee's consisting of rec anglers from across our state deciding where it is best spent ?

Just my view - Scotto

[deepfried]

This is where I don't agree. Fisheries are telling us they need funding to conduct specific research ( est $500,000- ) to understand the true position of the south east snapper fishery - BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. So they want to introduce a species specific permit to raise the funds - which is estimated at approx $30- $60 per angler who wants to go snapper fishing ?

You don't have to be Einstein to work out that fisheries also don't have the funding to do plenty of other research that needs doing either ;)

So why wouldn't we be in favor of introducing a general rec license that sees ALL OF THE MONEY going into trust accounts - with management/ expenditure committee's consisting of rec anglers from across our state deciding where it is best spent ?

Just my view - Scotto

This thread is starting to get interesting again. I rekon your right Scott.

Sure the NSW system may have some problems as some have uncovered but for $30 a year and with stuff all rises in cost over 15 years i am happier now than when this thread started to pay that if you guys are going to be slugged more than that for research into just one fish.

One thing that i havent understood, after it has been revealed that a fee will be charged for snapper is no one has said hey shite i also pay the PPV or SIP or both. Why dont i support a general licence and only pay one fee that if done right rec fishos have control of. Maybe too much has been said by some and it would be hard to go back on that, who knows.

To me Eco and Sunfish ( plus who ever else ) should be seriously talking about a general licence now as long as all other fees are dropped and the money raised is protected and run by rec fishos as this thread stated. Some thing that a decent debate here could have gone a long way to sorting instead of the rantings and politics of some. The powers that be can pull apart the licence systems across australia and pick the best points and try to implement that before you have no say and leave it to the DPI&F. Qlders will now be asked to bend over every time the DPI&F needs extra cash because of this precedent and you will have very little say in the matter, species after species. At least in NSW the DPI comes to the rec licence money with hat in hand and they work together. The research is green stamped by rec fishos if deemed worthy and for only $30 a year, less if you only fish a day or two a year and kids under 18 are for free.

I now know which states system i prefer and it is not the one that is starting to look like WAs with a boat fee ( Qld already pays PPV ) Fish specific fee ( Qld will soon pay by the sounds of it ) and a fresh water fee ( SIP ). Many of you already pay more than we do in NSW, go figure and many of you are negative to the idea of a single RL to cover it all. Strange.

[dasher]

No personal agenda & not looking to get into politics - just sick & tired of having our rights as anglers taken away , restricted access , marine parks & unsustainable fishing practises :-X

Yeah so we'll all just sit here and sob http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/cry.gif http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/cry.gif http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/cry.gif

I still do not see any constructive alternative to a general recreational fishing licence ( Based on the NSW model as disclosed ) http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif?

ALL of those who have voted NO must be happy with the way our fisheries are being managed ?


A general recreational fishing licence WOULD clearly show how many serious recreational anglers you had in the state - as you would ALL now be "Financial stake holders" . You would have a louder VOICE in political circles - You would have capital to invest in campaigns against recreational angling - IE: green zones & marine parks , WE would have a data base of ALL the SERIOUS recreational anglers - to communicate with, in an effort to gaining better support to protect the recreation that we passionately enjoy !

Or we can continue to whinge & complain about how hard done by we are http://www.fishntales.com/forum/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif

Just a thought - Scotto

OK Scott ya got me convinced, but with a few conditions......



First the DPI provide the amount and percentage of fisheries budget for the last 5 years....

ie rec/com/aqua.

This figure to be displayed on the website each year.

They must be willing to continue the budget as is with the normal rate increases.

All monies involved in the rec budget is to be as transparent as the licence trust.

Monies are not to be used for ramp facilities... (this why rego went up)

Any commercial licence to be guaranteed cancelled if bought back.

If the answer to all those is a yes..... I'm all for a licence.

[Lucky_Phill]

I have to raise this little beauty.

Fresh water fishing........ I know, it's not salt but.

We have had a S.I.P. fee for many years now and that went to restocking programs.... but now, I find a " boating " permit is now required... $100/year. >:( >:(


Can anyone else see a Saltwater Rec Licence as only the start ? a couple of years on and ........... yep $200/ year " Boating " licence. 8-):o :o :o


Sorry Scott............. This has made my mind up. No Licence. end of story. >:(


Cheers phill


http://www.somerset.qld.gov.au/tourism/fishing.shtml
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[deepfried]

I have to raise this little beauty.

Fresh water fishing........ I know, it's not salt but.

We have had a S.I.P. fee for many years now and that went to restocking programs.... but now, I find a " boating " permit is now required... $100/year. >:( >:(


Can anyone else see a Saltwater Rec Licence as only the start ? a couple of years on and ........... yep $200/ year " Boating " licence. 8-):o :o :o


Sorry Scott............. This has made my mind up. No Licence. end of story. >:(


Cheers phill


http://www.somerset.qld.gov.au/tourism/fishing.shtml
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Maybe in Qld if you dont do some thing about it. What you say makes sense if you dont have a broad based revenue raising option ( yes that is what it is and we are all paying it already ) and choose the user pays system you have now which taxes minorities. By minority i mean that not every fisho in Qld can afford a boat so tax those that can, typical labour party policy, not everyone fishes the impoundments, in fact it is largely the domain of bigger spending fishos again, so tax them, well the snapper fisho is the best one, they get hit 2 ways with the boat and the species fee. Not in NSW though, $30 a year only and it has been running a loooooooong time with minor price rises.

I guess you really feel that you have the best user pays system now so why change it if you are willing to pay all that money, esp when they keep adding to it. The Gov is laughing at you because you are supporting it and they dont have to hit up every voter in the state that fishes for a general RL and piss them off. All backed by the peak fishing groups, well maybe not backed or supported but it seems you are not interested in a cheaper alternative for yourselfs or your members. I wonder what the average Joe fisherman that isnt on Ausfish or in a club or a member of Eco or who ever that currently pays Qlds suedo licence fees thinks about a cheaper alternative not being supported.


And you are still against it and worried about the future when you are getting screwed now. :-/ That doesnt sound cool at all.

[deepfried]

Sorry about two posts in row but i logged of, had a thought and was really shocked by your comments phil.

Basically you would rather stay with the system you have because you found a "little beauty" in the form of a new boat fee for fresh water ?. I have to assume this as you didnt offer an alternative view and the thread gives three options, that being one of them. So you are now against the suggestion of a general rec licence that wipes out these other fees because of what might happen in the future ( Could you post your alterantive view for all to see as i am sure that is what you voted for before the poll results were hidden ) . In the context of this thread the question was asked on your thoughts of a RL based on the NSW model not some fancyfull fear mongering of what may happen even though that is what you are currently facing with no RL and its current costs are much much higher. The NSW licence has been running a long time and does provide a pretty good base to start with. We dont have a saltwater boat fee so again in regards to the threads question where do you come up with that suggestion and what is the motivation of bringing up the imaginary.

FYI, there is no fresh water and salt water licence in NSW. One fee covers it all, i just got the feeling that you were implying that we pay two which would be disinformation for readers here. Only the one and its $30, less than a third of that one new boat fee for fresh water.

[Lovey80]

Scott,

I don't support a Snapper Licence either. I do support a mandatory monitoring system where anglers are required to report catches though. You are right, DPI-F are a joke right now! On one hand they admit that they have no clue on any of the 'science' (you cant even call it that) that came up with these 'numbers' yet on the other hand they say they need more funding to get the science right!!!!

How about we get the science right in the first place then decide on measures we eed to take '(if any).

Scott, there is a good chance that those 'new' for voters didnt read to page 19 before voting so your argument is mute there.

As stated before and certainly after reading the latest report the ANSWER IS NO to EXPENDIATURE commitee's deciding where money gets spent! The expendiature committees themselves waste thousands of dollars annually.

As I said at the start when I voted alternative view, only would I support a licence if it went to a volunteer group like ECO. All these thousands of dollars thrown away for next to nothing! All that cash over the years wasted in meetings and 'defining a great fishing experience' or what ever could have bought a great big arty reef in Moreton bay or bought out a heap of beach netting licences on the fraser coast or, or , or, !

To start a catch recording program where the group set it up and ran it would cost infinitely less than a gov't run program (jobs for the boys). That way it would be Rec Fisherman collecting the Data and distributing it to scientists for analysis instead of Fisheries/Scientists deciding they need to have restrictions on a species and 'finding' the evidence to support it. It's bloody strait out corruption IMHO!

And for the PPV levy, stuff it give that to the volunteer group too! Have Rec anglers email sugestions in thier local area of what they want improved or fixed. That way the gov't can take a back seat in that too.

Cheers

Chris

[Scott Mitchell]

I have to raise this little beauty.

Fresh water fishing........ I know, it's not salt but.

We have had a S.I.P. fee for many years now and that went to restocking programs.... but now, I find a " boating " permit is now required... $100/year. >:( >:(


Can anyone else see a Saltwater Rec Licence as only the start ? a couple of years on and ........... yep $200/ year " Boating " licence. 8-):o :o :o


Sorry Scott............. This has made my mind up. No Licence. end of story. >:(


Cheers phill


http://www.somerset.qld.gov.au/tourism/fishing.shtml
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Phil - Your right - If we get stung for this snapper permit or some form of boat license - this is the beginning of the end - And I can see the outlines on the wall already !

The SIPS WOULD NEED TO BE ROLLED INTO THE "PROPOSED" GENERAL REC LICENSE - this is what was done in NSW with the freshwater license. You would take an average of total SIPS funds raised over the last 3 years and kick off the freshwater trust account at that - all remaining funds would then go across to the saltwater trust.

With this "proposed general rec fishing license" WE WOULD HAVE CONTROL - ( tweeking any area's that can be improved apon )Or we can just bend over and take it :-X

Regards Scotto

[Scott Mitchell]

Scott,

As stated before and certainly after reading the latest report the ANSWER IS NO to EXPENDIATURE commitee's deciding where money gets spent! The expendiature committees themselves waste thousands of dollars annually.

As I said at the start when I voted alternative view, only would I support a licence if it went to a volunteer group like ECO. All these thousands of dollars thrown away for next to nothing! All that cash over the years wasted in meetings and 'defining a great fishing experience' or what ever could have bought a great big arty reef in Moreton bay or bought out a heap of beach netting licences on the fraser coast or, or , or, !

Cheers

Chris

So we pay to be members of Eco on top of a general rec license & then put them in charge of how our money is spent :P

Come on Chris ;)

Regards Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

So we pay to be members of Eco on top of a general rec license & then put them in charge of how our money is spent :P

Come on Chris ;)

Regards Scotto

AT least you would get value for money that way. Funds controlled by rec fishos that care about what rec fisho's want.

[Scott Mitchell]

AT least you would get value for money that way. Funds controlled by rec fishos that care about what rec fisho's want.

I really take objection to that - I sat alongside plenty of dedicated rec anglers on the NSW expenditure committee's who worked tirelessly to improve rec fishing in their state - you would never want to look at their hourly rate !

Regards Scotto

[Lucky_Phill]

FYI.... deepfried.

I did offer something................ post numbers 2 and 3 of this thread.


I'll make it clear from my perspective again.

This current government are a bunch of thieving, lying and monetary mis-managers. They are driven by personal agendas and the radical green movement.

The only way forward to what we all want.................. a sustainable and well managed fishery..............is Co-Management of the fishery.

We have to establish sound science, transparent accounting, legitimate policy and commonsense approaches towards our fishery and its evirons. This...IMO... can only be achieved by a Co-management system where all stakeholders are given the opportunity to provide input for their particular needs and wants.

It is not rocket science........... chucking money at research will not provide us with a sustainable fishery........ this government has to get off their backsides and utilise what little kahunas they left and beat the living greenie out of the departments like DERM ( ex EPA ) to make them accountable for their portfolio / responsibility.

Fix the landbased problems and other external problems and let the DPI&F do their job.

This Government has to stop flushing millions down the porkbarrel toilets and do what they were voted in to do, and that is support the very people of Queensland that put a tick their box in the hope of receiving some recognition.

This current Governments demonstrable mismanagement of this state ranks in the all time Worlds Greatest Blunders. But, to be fair.................................... sorry, there is no fair. >:(

Maybe some would suggest the Gov are not to blame for the issues we now have............ well.. prove me wrong. !!!! The total lack of understanding of the issues, extended committee procrastinations, the bleeding obvious ' buy a preference vote ', the race to see how many White Elephants they can produce, bureaucratic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bureaucratic) procreation and the old Head in the Sand approach are simply the highlights………….. wait for the full feature.

So, to repeat….

No rec licence will be supported by me as there is sufficient funding for the management of our fishing already in place. It is simply not being used for its intended purpose.

All………..IMO only.


Cheers phill.
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[deepfried]

FYI.... deepfried.

I did offer something................ post numbers 2 and 3 of this thread.

I have read those and you weren't against a RL on the grounds that a new fresh water boat fee would be introduced, it wasmore based on how it would be run and that you thought there was enough funding available. Infact you freely admitted that the NSW system has had its successes. You did make it clear that there are enough current funds IYO to manage the fisheries correctly atm. Well i disagree and the new snapper fee and fresh water boat fee are proof of that. The proof may not be solid but if you think the Qld Gov is going to have a change of heart and drop your SIP, PPV, Snapper fee and fresh water boat fee and charge you nothing i will bet my house on it you are wrong. You are going to charged to fish in Qld like it or not.

I'll make it clear from my perspective again.

This current government are a bunch of thieving, lying and monetary mis-managers. They are driven by personal agendas and the radical green movement.

The only way forward to what we all want.................. a sustainable and well managed fishery..............is Co-Management of the fishery.

We have to establish sound science, transparent accounting, legitimate policy and commonsense approaches towards our fishery and its evirons. This...IMO... can only be achieved by a Co-management system where all stakeholders are given the opportunity to provide input for their particular needs and wants.

It is not rocket science........... chucking money at research will not provide us with a sustainable fishery........ this government has to get off their backsides and utilise what little kahunas they left and beat the living greenie out of the departments like DERM ( ex EPA ) to make them accountable for their portfolio / responsibility.

Fix the landbased problems and other external problems and let the DPI&F do their job.

This Government has to stop flushing millions down the porkbarrel toilets and do what they were voted in to do, and that is support the very people of Queensland that put a tick their box in the hope of receiving some recognition.

This current Governments demonstrable mismanagement of this state ranks in the all time Worlds Greatest Blunders. But, to be fair.................................... sorry, there is no fair. >:(

Maybe some would suggest the Gov are not to blame for the issues we now have............ well.. prove me wrong. !!!! The total lack of understanding of the issues, extended committee procrastinations, the bleeding obvious ' buy a preference vote ', the race to see how many White Elephants they can produce, bureaucratic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bureaucratic) procreation and the old Head in the Sand approach are simply the highlights………….. wait for the full feature.


You may be right with everything you just said there but to remind you, NSW is also governed by labour and our economy is in a much worse position than Qlds and in NSW there is no need for all those individual fees / taxes that Qld currently has. A RL would be a cheaper option for many and it would give power back to the rec fisherman as it has done in NSW.

So, to repeat….

No rec licence will be supported by me as there is sufficient funding for the management of our fishing already in place. It is simply not being used for its intended purpose.

All………..IMO only.


Cheers phill.

If you think that the Qld Gov is going to give you back one cent of what you are currently paying and then hand over control to rec fishos good luck. The only way you will get control is through a RL run by rec fishos. If you think that the Qld Gov will drop all your fees and fund it themselves, good luck. It wont happen.

I would personaly rather face reality now and cop a cheaper RL that is run rec fishos than to be continually charged more in the form of PPV, SIP, Snapper fee, Fresh water boat fee, insert here your next fee, insert here the fee after that in the hope that the QLd Gov will have a change of heart and drop all those and do its job properly. Jesus since this poll started you have 2 new fees on the way.
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To be very honest i think that this whole pole is not reflecting the true thoughts of what people feel, well i seriously hope so anyway. If everyone drops all the BS ( yes that is both sides of the arguement ) we have three options : 1) in favour, 2) No happy with current management and 3) alternative view.
Now i hope that the majority are not happy with current management as it includes all those fees (SIP, PPV etc ) mentioned above because that doesnt make sense. I think the bulk saw the NO there and just hit that button. The option that should be the clear hands down winner should have been number 3. It would cover those happy to pay a RL but not based on the NSW system, it also would have covered those not happy with current management but also not keen on a RL, it also would cover those that believe that the funding is or should be available already. So it really beats me why so many people voted option 2. I would love to here from some that did vote option 2 as to whether they are really happy to pay all the fees that are current in Qld and are happy with current management because that is clearly what option 2 is. I would also like to know how many people actually know how the NSW system runs and is operated first hand, not based on internet research. You will find posts through all of this from NSW members and the majority are happy with the system and outcomes.

In the end everyone does have there own opinion and deserves such. It isnt up to me and really it isnt up to any group like Eco or Sunfish. You will be slugged what the gov deems appropriate and only votes won or lost will change that.

IMO i think in reality you are going to be charged something and i prefer the cheaper option for me.. If you dont own a boat, fish for snapper, fish the impoundments i would expect you to be strongly against a RL.

I will give this thread a miss for a bit now as i am sure i am boring people and i am also sure that no Qlder likes to be ear bashed by a nsw cockroach. Make up your own minds but base it on the here and now not the fairy tale that doesnt exist.

cheers
scott

[Lucky_Phill]

No scott, stick around.... it's all good and the debate rages.... and rightly so.

I chose option 4.


cheers phill.

[Bill_Corten]

I have been watching this thread with interest.
The driver behind it is the concept of Fisheries wanting to introduce a fee for a permit to catch snapper and the issue that leads to is whether that is an appropriate action or not.
The situation as it stands is that fisheries get somewhere in the order of 3.7 to 3.8 million dollars annually from the PPV levy component of Qld boat registrations to manage recreational fisheries in Qld.
Fisheries initiated the snapper review because of their concerns about sustainability of the species following their stock assessment which highlighted a significant biomass reduction that is at a dangerously low level in their eyes.
They already collect a huge amount from rec boaters yet cannot find money to fund the administration of a program that would attempt to accurately determine the recreational catch of the species that they have identified as under so much threat that major corrective action is required of the rec, charter and commercial sectors.
As a member of the snapper working group it rubs me the wrong way that they want to impose a fee on top of what they already collect.
My view is either reallocate the dollars thay already collect to address these management issues (and let's face it they get a shyte load now and how is it used and where does it all go anyway????) or come up with another across the board way of funding rec fishing issues.
The reality is, there is not a political will to proceed with the recreational licence so it seems better to not reinvent the wheel.
Rather than create new levels of internal management with permits/licences, my suggestion is to use the present funding system, boost the fee slightly if necessary and stop procrastinating and get on with the job of managing fisheries as they should have been doing for the rec sector all along.
Barry Day and Phill Kleise are on the money for mine.

Cheers
Bill

[Scott Mitchell]

Rather than create new levels of internal management with permits/licences, my suggestion is to use the present funding system, boost the fee slightly if necessary and stop procrastinating and get on with the job of managing fisheries as they should have been doing for the rec sector all along.
Barry Day and Phill Kleise are on the money for mine.

Cheers
Bill



I agree with having the department better managed with funding from the current PPV levy & general revenue - if it can be achieved :-/

Otherwise I am all for a new system where any money raised goes into trust accounts & the expenditure is signed off by rec anglers ;)

Regards Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

I agree with having the department better managed with funding from the current PPV levy & general revenue - if it can be achieved :-/

Otherwise I am all for a new system where any money raised goes into trust accounts & the expenditure is signed off by rec anglers ;)

Regards Scotto

I am really struggling to understand what your motivations are here Scott. A few posts back you state, quote for quote.



So we pay to be members of Eco on top of a general rec license & then put them in charge of how our money is spent

Yet you are happy to continue to pay the goverment for something you are not getting, and you want to hand over more money to get what you are already paying for?

I would love to have you as a customer;)

[FNQCairns]

I am really struggling to understand what your motivations are here Scott. A few posts back you state, quote for quote.



Yet you are happy to continue to pay the goverment for something you are not getting, and you want to hand over more money to get what you are already paying for?

I would love to have you as a customer;)


It's a part of threaded topic evolution Andy, where you around when we used to chat to Pinhead in earlier days? we brain....er....we also helped him find some light.:)

It's good. give and take with time to re-read posts at leasure if necessary, far more efficient than our parliament in any case.

cheers fnq

[deepfried]

Sorry guys, back already.


Rather than create new levels of internal management with permits/licences, my suggestion is to use the present funding system, boost the fee slightly if necessary and stop procrastinating and get on with the job of managing fisheries as they should have been doing for the rec sector all along.


Those levels of management should largely be in place to admin the PPV. To increase the PPV would only tax the wealthy minority ( boat owners ) which as i stated before is what labour is about. You would be playing into the hands of the master you want defeated. Also as this thread will never decide the fate of a RL why does it matter what the political intent is. Use the question raised about the RL and compare it to what you currently pay. I dont think Scotto will go to the Gov and say look here introduce a RL based on this thread. Its just a debate.


Yet you are happy to continue to pay the goverment for something you are not getting, and you want to hand over more money to get what you are already paying for?

To me it sounds like you are the one who is happy to continue paying for what you are not getting and arent interested in a cheaper alternative in the form of a RL. A RL would would wipe out all other fees that many here seem to support.
I wish you were my customer. I could charge you to be my customer, charge you to step onto my business premises and then charge you to use my product. Then if you wanted to move it to another area i could charge you again. ( current rec fishing system )

Or i could be fair and only have one charge for the product. ( RL )

scott

[TheRealAndy]

Sorry guys, back already.


To me it sounds like you are the one who is happy to continue paying for what you are not getting and arent interested in a cheaper alternative in the form of a RL. A RL would would wipe out all other fees that many here seem to support.
I wish you were my customer. I could charge you to be my customer, charge you to step onto my business premises and then charge you to use my product. Then if you wanted to move it to another area i could charge you again. ( current rec fishing system )

Or i could be fair and only have one charge for the product. ( RL )

scott

OK, fair enough. If the governement removes the rego from my boat, I will happily support a Rec Fishing licence.. How does that sound?

BTW, the business model you suggested is the model I use for my business:P

[PinHead]

It's a part of threaded topic evolution Andy, where you around when we used to chat to Pinhead in earlier days? we brain....er....we also helped him find some light.:) ya what ?????

It's good. give and take with time to re-read posts at leasure if necessary, far more efficient than our parliament in any case.

cheers fnq

.................................................. .............................................

[Lucky_Phill]

OK, fair enough. If the government removes the rego from my boat, I will happily support a Rec Fishing licence.. How does that sound?

BTW, the business model you suggested is the model I use for my business:P


;D ;D ........... I like the way ya think Andy lol.

Just going back a tad to what Bill said.

The driver behind it is the concept of Fisheries wanting to introduce a fee for a permit to catch snapper and the issue that leads to is whether that is an appropriate action or not.

Interesting statement. Food for thought.




phill
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[PinHead]

Sorry guys, back already.



Those levels of management should largely be in place to admin the PPV. To increase the PPV would only tax the wealthy minority ( boat owners ) which as i stated before is what labour is about. You would be playing into the hands of the master you want defeated. Also as this thread will never decide the fate of a RL why does it matter what the political intent is. Use the question raised about the RL and compare it to what you currently pay. I dont think Scotto will go to the Gov and say look here introduce a RL based on this thread. Its just a debate.



To me it sounds like you are the one who is happy to continue paying for what you are not getting and arent interested in a cheaper alternative in the form of a RL. A RL would would wipe out all other fees that many here seem to support.
I wish you were my customer. I could charge you to be my customer, charge you to step onto my business premises and then charge you to use my product. Then if you wanted to move it to another area i could charge you again. ( current rec fishing system )

Or i could be fair and only have one charge for the product. ( RL )

scott

Once upon a time there was johnnie and johnnie said "I am going to introduce a GST. To make it fair the States have to drop most of their other taxes and charges".
Now the nasty State premiers agreed with this and as soon as Johhnie brought in the GST they dropped SFA.

And you guys think they will drop the sip and ppv ????

The pixies in my front garden would be laughing at that fairy tale also.

I do have a problem with ppv funds being used for a Sunfish conference..that is one of the main reasons I am against an RFL..too many hangers on getting freebies at the average joe's expense.
If those that want to administe the funds will do it for nothing then that would be a start..BUT...every person that buys a license has the right to vote for the board members.

It will never happen...as soon as 1 cent goes to an individual then the whole thing stinks. eg NSW license system..snouts in the trough.

[FNQCairns]

For what it is worth I will throw my quietly held 2 bob in.

The problem with any one fishing oriented private or government organisation holding all of the cards (money and power) on a fishing licence is human nature.

There is a simple way for those with a stake to own an "Angler resource licence" :) that will cut through what is the side of human nature that does all Anglers over.

1.A new NGO enterprise: Powerless outside of it's contract/charter and unrelated to any government or fishing organisation, a contract manager/clerk, 1.5 assistants in whatever form that may take within a rented room/office within any of the multitude of offices that true charities run these days. Minimal costs and transparent in the real sense of the word not just the political.

This organisation is charged only with running the account/organising meetings/producing reports/ensuring compliance within the charter and signing away duly requested funds, legal compliance etc etc all the typical stuff seen anywhere.

2. The above is there for one reason only and that is to facilitate a panel of ANGLERS representatives, these are persons representing any Angler organisation in the state, the panel has total control over all funds and all matters irrespective of outside political wills, all advertising, all research from funds in short the panel is the licence everything to do with the licence and no 'human nature' can come into it that cannot be voted down or out.

It can easily be done although fishery's will loose a good degree of their forced power over the sector (money) and also be forced to do what was there core job in response and they will need for the first time ever to justify their decisions at any level of competence in management.

No single organisation should be charged with riding roughshod over the entire Angling community and this organisation includes any member base fishing advocate group...human nature will always remain human nature irrespective of the spoken word.

cheers fnq

[Scott Mitchell]

Andy - I am really struggling to understand what your motivations are here Scott. A few posts back you state, quote for quote.

* Andy - I am not sure why as they have not changed ? I don't necessarily want to pay for a fishing license - I just don't believe we'll get more funding from the government to allow DPI&F do the job :-/

Yet you are happy to continue to pay the government for something you are not getting, and you want to hand over more money to get what you are already paying for?

* I am NOT HAPPY to pay more money to assist the government to fund DPI&F in order for the department to sustainably manage our states fisheries - BUT it appears that they are incapable of this ?

So "I" am in favour of taking control of our fisheries via a user pays system - THAT SEE'S ALL THE REVENUE RAISED GO INTO TRUST ACCOUNTS - with expenditure committees consisting of rec anglers controlling how it is spent ;)

Regards Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

Andy - I am really struggling to understand what your motivations are here Scott. A few posts back you state, quote for quote.

* Andy - I am not sure why as they have not changed ? I don't necessarily want to pay for a fishing license - I just don't believe we'll get more funding from the government to allow DPI&F do the job :-/

Yet you are happy to continue to pay the government for something you are not getting, and you want to hand over more money to get what you are already paying for?

* I am NOT HAPPY to pay more money to assist the government to fund DPI&F in order for the department to sustainably manage our states fisheries - BUT it appears that they are incapable of this ?

So "I" am in favour of taking control of our fisheries via a user pays system - THAT SEE'S ALL THE REVENUE RAISED GO INTO TRUST ACCOUNTS - with expenditure committees consisting of rec anglers controlling how it is spent ;)

Regards Scotto

You already have a 'user pays system'.

Instead of paying twice for that user pays system, why not focus your energy on trying to fix what already exists, rather than trying to create another potentially broken system that is going to cost rec fisherman more money.

[dayoo]

This thread is going around in circles so I have started a new thread to fully explain the present situation...Look under heading Funding of recreational fishing in Queensland;)

Cheers
Barry

[deepfried]

Back again already.

I wonder how many people have gone back to the begining and read the original questions posed. I can understand everyones scepticism that if a RL was introduced the fees that you currently pay would not be abolished. I guess rightly so, we all know we cant trust any Gov. Thanks for the fairy tale Pinhead. But
" do we trust the Gov " was not part of the first post and the original question. On my part i also have assumed that the PPV would be dropped and just realised that that wasnt included in point 1 of the first post but since it is based on the NSW system and we do not pay a PPV i think i can assume that it would be abolished as with all of the other fees Qld has to pay that we dont in NSW ( if i also assume the Gov can be trusted ). Also Pinhead if the NSW system costing me a lot less to go and fish than what you pay is a bad thing " please explain " to quote another pollitician. Isnt the money raised in Qld also feeding those same pigs and at a higher cost per fisho and that same fisho has no say what so ever.

There are also a lot of responses about the independance of any committee that would run a RL. Well that wasnt the question or the an option in the poll. Going back to the original post it is clearly stated that it would be run by independant committees, no mention of Sunfish, Eco fishers just independant. All of the speculation is pointless. I dont understand the negativaty to a RL based on conjecture that independance is unatainable. To me it is like being a kid and mum says for xmas you can have a bike young johny. Then johny says oh shit, santas got to bring it down the chimney and it will be all dirty and i will have to clean it, oh crap then i will have to clean the carpet and while i am at it mum will make me sweep the chimney. F the bike i would rather stay in my room. To much thought when it is not needed, answer the question based on what was stated, not on what your mind can come up with to ruin it.

Andy,
I dont know what you pay in PPV but i would think just dropping that from your rego would pay the rec license then you dont have to pay to fish for snapper, or in the impoundments on top of that. Correct me if i am wrong with what the PPV costs i really have no idea.

I do like your business model though if you can get away with that. 8-)

I am not having a go at anyone here. I just dont think people are basing there opinions on the original post. They are basing it worse case scenarios that arent part of the poll original question. Like i said in an earlier post, i cant understand the No vote being in front of the alternative idea vote. To me it sounds like the bulk of Qlders like paying a swag of fees to have a fish and feel that it managed well.

[PinHead]

PPV = $16.65

We are all adults and can put forward our own views...not guided by someone elses view on most subjects...did you not notice in the first post the word "debate"..that is what is happening.

As I have said before..if a license was introduced then anyone that was on any committee would do it gratis. I find it appalling that people would take money from those fees for themselves. if you stand for the committees then you recognise that you do it for nothing. As soon as you receive any compensation you have lost all neutrality. If you are so keen on helping fellow anglers then do it for nothing.

BUT..I am against an RFL is any form. No one says the fisheries is managed well at the present but why would an RFL make it change? Funds for meetings? Funds for conferences?

The Govt needs to be told what to do as is their obligation. They need to manage the fisheries, manage the facilities associated with those fisheries and control size and bag limits. It is the Govt's obligatoion to fund these items from the taxes they already receive. It is not our fault they are an incompetent bunch and listen to Anna's left wing too much..why should we pay more money to bail them out..we pay enough as it is.

The reality is that Scott will keep pushing for his RFL and those of us against it will keep fighting against it. I know I won;t be changing my stance.

I was going to attend the Sunfish conference until I saw that they wanted me to pay $50 to attend yet they are already using OUR money from the PPV for this conference..talk about misuse of funds. They should all resign..no confidence in them whatsoever.

[Scott Mitchell]

You already have a 'user pays system'.

Instead of paying twice for that user pays system, why not focus your energy on trying to fix what already exists, rather than trying to create another potentially broken system that is going to cost rec fisherman more money.



You honestly believe that "we" the wider rec angling community stand any chance of lobbying the government to allocate more no-strings-attached funding to DPI&F in order to better manage our states fisheries sustainably ::)

Sure they should & it would be great to know exactly what rec angling boat rego's actually contribute the PPV levy as well - but is it going to happen ?

I rest my case it you can show me how that's achievable ! Please excuse my scepticism - I don't know how I would arrive at such a conclusion after this poll :P

Regards Scotto