Best leader connection

[bassfan]

Hello all,

well after losing 2 expensive lures the other day due to failed leader knots, I ask the question what does everyone else use?

I have tried bimini twist doubles, improved albrights & double uni knot braid to leader connections & have invariably been let down at some point. Have just learnt the surgeons knot (unbelievably simple) but have little trust in any knot after so many failures.

I always tie them carefully, check that they look neat & test them with a tug and if they break I retie them. My current theory is that they are tied correctly, but are damaged after a few dozen casts through small guides and then just fail. I am mainly referring to light lines with 6 to 10 lb leaders etc.

So if you have had similar frustrating knot experiences with light lines and have hopefully come up with a solution, I'd love to hear it.

cheers

bassfan

[Rockfish]

Hi

This one sounds like a bit of a strange situation you have there. If the knots are being tied correctly and holding when tested they should work, simple. However if you are noticing some form of damage after casting i would suggest there may be another factor influencing your line and knot damage. This may include things like cracked or chipped guides (however small or insignificant they appear), reel line runner damage or contact with structure whilst retrieving the lure causing fraying of the line.

Just my thoughts
Rockfish

[Spark.wu]

The best knot ever is FG knot or called GT knot! 0 damage to the leader and braid!

[thephotoguru]

I agree the FG knot is hte go.

First I plait a double then tie the FG knot from double to leader.

I have not ad any problems, assuming I tie a good FG knot.

Casts very well, I have had maybe 100's of casts without problem from a single rig.

Give it a shot, but be warned this not quick and easy. Best to be done at home before you go out.

have fun, Eamon

[bassfan]

Thanks for those quick replies. Can't say I've heard of the FG knot but any suggestions on where I can learn this one would be appreciated.

cheers

bassfan

[Spark.wu]

Thanks for those quick replies. Can't say I've heard of the FG knot but any suggestions on where I can learn this one would be appreciated.

cheers

bassfan

Here u go mate. Happy fishing.

http://myfishingfrenzy.com/fg_knot.php

[Horse]

I agree the FG knot is hte go.

First I plait a double then tie the FG knot from double to leader.

I have not ad any problems, assuming I tie a good FG knot.

Casts very well, I have had maybe 100's of casts without problem from a single rig.

Give it a shot, but be warned this not quick and easy. Best to be done at home before you go out.

have fun, Eamon

If I have to tie the knot at home:-/ then assume that it was tied well :P then I think I will stick to my improved albright ;)

I like the tony jones leader knot and Slim Beaty as well but the Imp albright came out in front for me

[Spark.wu]

Oh, btw, this knot need some practice before u can have a go. U will find the braid can slip off the leader sometimes if u doesn't tied it properly. but u will surprised by how awesome this kont is at the end.

[Spark.wu]

I like the tony jones leader knot and Slim Beaty as well but the Imp albright came out in front for me

imp albright is awesome and 0 damage 2. but u got double dia at the connection rather than 1 dia at the FG knot.

[ffejsmada]

I reckon this subject comes up once a month!!!::)::)

For me, it's the Slim Beauty all the way. No double, easy to tie, a very slim tapered knot, tapered the right way, and strong.

I don't know why blokes use doubles any more, (except for wind ons and twisted leaders), they're not needed in braid. Especially light main line and leaders which is what you've asked about.

Do a search mate, everything you need to know is there.

Jeff.

ps. never test your knots with a sharp tug. Always test your knot with a gentle tug applying pressure as you go. A quick short tug will break most knots in light line.

Cheers.

[NAGG]

I reckon this subject comes up once a month!!!::)::)

For me, it's the Slim Beauty all the way. No double, easy to tie, a very slim tapered knot, tapered the right way, and strong.

I don't know why blokes use doubles any more, (except for wind ons and twisted leaders), they're not needed in braid. Especially light main line and leaders which is what you've asked about.

Do a search mate, everything you need to know is there.

Jeff.

ps. never test your knots with a sharp tug. Always test your knot with a gentle tug applying pressure as you go. A quick short tug will break most knots in light line.

Cheers.

The slim beauty is a great knot in thinner diameter leaders ....... but IMO crap in barra type leaders where you are forced to run shorter leaders so the knot stays outside the guides.

Chris

[Angla]

I normally use 15 metres of monofilament at the end of my braid lines and tie this using a double grinner knot. It is simple and have never had a failure. I only use this on my TLD's which are not used for casting.

I would also check all your guides for and damage.

Cheers
Chris

[NormC]

The slim beauty is a great knot in thinner diameter leaders ....... but IMO crap in barra type leaders where you are forced to run shorter leaders so the knot stays outside the guides.

Chris

Interesting, after trying lots of knots, the Slim Beauty is the only knot I use on barra leaders these days. I use it as the knot runs smoothly through the guides. I use 30 or 50 lb braid with 60 or 80 lb leaders. With 80 lb leader, I sometimes (one out of five knots) get slight 'clicking' as the knot comes back in through the guides on the retrieve, but on the cast, it always runs smooth. If it worries me too much there are two remedies - tie the knot again / clip off a bit more tag, or drop a bit of super glue on the knot and roll it around as it dries.

On the 60 lb leader, there is never a problem.'

To me, the big advantages of the Slim Beauty are:
Ease of tying
Slim, so it runs through the guides
Very strong
The leader tag points back up the rod, so if it ever catches on a guide, it will only be on the retreive, never on the cast.

Not saying it is the best knot - just the best for me that I've found yet. Been in NT Barra fishing since April. Have caught over 100 Barra so far (approx 80% released), including some big ones. No knot failures and one lure lost.

But I will have a look at the FG knot, the only one mentioned so far that I have not tried.

Norm C

[Mikeey]

i use the Braid leader knot, never had a leader snap off at all, and its very easy and quick to do, takes about 1min to do up,

[NAGG]

Interesting, after trying lots of knots, the Slim Beauty is the only knot I use on barra leaders these days. I use it as the knot runs smoothly through the guides. I use 30 or 50 lb braid with 60 or 80 lb leaders. With 80 lb leader, I sometimes (one out of five knots) get slight 'clicking' as the knot comes back in through the guides on the retrieve, but on the cast, it always runs smooth. If it worries me too much there are two remedies - tie the knot again / clip off a bit more tag, or drop a bit of super glue on the knot and roll it around as it dries.

On the 60 lb leader, there is never a problem.'

To me, the big advantages of the Slim Beauty are:
Ease of tying
Slim, so it runs through the guides
Very strong
The leader tag points back up the rod, so if it ever catches on a guide, it will only be on the retreive, never on the cast.

Not saying it is the best knot - just the best for me that I've found yet. Been in NT Barra fishing since April. Have caught over 100 Barra so far (approx 80% released), including some big ones. No knot failures and one lure lost.

But I will have a look at the FG knot, the only one mentioned so far that I have not tried.

Norm C

I'm only using 80lb leader & if rods like loomis's are used that have the smaller guides ....... the SB is basically unfishable.
Also on 80lb leader ..... you really have to pull up the overhand knot with pliers to keep it small
I also use a bit of superglue as well

The SB doesn't seem fail ....... but its problem lies through the guides

Chris

[honda900]

Bassfan,

Assuming that all your knots are good and they are all breaking, have you considered that perhaps your braid is past its use by date or have you tried another brand.

Just strikes me as odd that your braid is wearing and not your mono, (assumed reading between the lines).

Maybe a different brand might help??

Regards
HOnda.

[the baker]

Bassfan ,

That is a good point that Honda has made, & if you are using fluoro mono line after 12 months it breaks down considerably. I have had it as bad as 50% of the rated breaking strain, & be careful not to tie your knots on the braid to tight. As it will cut into its self, anything like the bimini twists this can be a real problem.
Good luck I hope you can get it sorted mate.

Dave.

[Flex]

50+ turn Bimini twist onto a Mid knot has been proven to be the highest % breaking strain out of all other braid knots that I can find research on.

Bimini only takes less than 1 min tie, and the mid knot is so simple a child can do it.

Used it exclusivly all over cape york popping for massive GT's and queenies and I have never ever had one fail.

[grave41]

The fg knot or the shout pr knot as you tie directly onto the leader .Smooth as through the runners. I use these knots for everything from 2-150 lb leaders.
Graham

[kevvie]

The best knot ever is FG knot or called GT knot! 0 damage to the leader and braid!


Excellent knot this one...I had zero knot failure with the Gt roll knot in the kimberley's on BIG barra caught tight in pandanus trees. In that situation we had to give zero drag to the fish. All leader knot held.

However i dont think it is a particularly effective knot on light line classes. I dont use a double in the main line as you need with a GT knot. Therefore my improved albright is perfect, not 100% but with light drags is good enough. I do lose the occasional jighead on a cast but is too irregular to cause concern.

[Tim_N]

I have been trialling some soon to be released Egrell wind on leaders with excellent results. The drag pressures I have been putting on them have in some cases, been redlining the Certates.
What is required is a 50 to 70 turn Bimini, and for that purpose I have been using the PAULUS Bimini aid, which gives approx 100% knot strength, then the Egrell wind on's.
The best I could get from my own self tied Bimini's was 72%, but the little Bimini aid has stepped up the odds considerably.
The Egrell wind on's are dead simple, no knots required.....except the pre-tied Bimini, which is tied before I leave home.
More on the Egrell wind on's later, but keep an eye out for them.
By the way, I pay for the PAULUS Bimini Aid and the Egrell gear, and consider it a honour to test these guys gear and equipment.
Tim

[Dave_H]

Tim, what was the issue with the hand tied biminis - too loose? Or are the Egrell wind-ons like a sleeve set-up?

[Richard]

If you are having any issues with the improved albright, try a small bit of super glue.

Don't pull it right up onto the end of the mono loop, leave it a bit stretched out and then superglue. This not only stops the braid from slipping over the end of the mono loop but because you don't tighten and bunch it up as much, it's a slimmer knot than if you tighten it right up. You can then trim the tag end of your mono almost right up to the knot because the braid isn't going to slip and even if it did, it would only slip forward, not back to the tag end.

Previous to superglueing my knots, i used to have the proble mwhere the braid would slip over the end of the mono loop, something you may see when tightening your current improved albrights. I buy the superglue in the little bottle with the brush in it, it's much easier to apply with the brush and the whole bottle lasts longer than a tube (which never seem to seal properly).

hope this helps,

Richard

ps. don't know about you, but i often get a scenario where i have to retie knots while out fishing (eg. worn leader, snags, etc). I would hate to have to try and do a FG knot out in the boat when you either got 100 mozzies around you or a bit of wind/rain

[Horse]

I have been trialling some soon to be released Egrell wind on leaders with excellent results.... By the way, I pay for...the Egrell gear, and consider it a honour to test these guys gear and equipment.
Tim

Thats a tough call for Eric to be charging you to do field tests on unproven gear. I don't know if I would have the faith to turn over my hard earned to test someones prototype products

[bassfan]

For me, it's the Slim Beauty all the way. No double, easy to tie, a very slim tapered knot, tapered the right way, and strong.


Cheers.

I was shown the slim beauty the other day by someone who swears by it & I must say I was impressed by how easy it is to tie. I'll be giving this one a go for a while & hopefully it'll solve my recent problems.

Thanks again to all that replied, it's obviously a subject dear to everyones heart.;D

bassfan

[Tim_N]

The problem with the hand tied Bimini twists is due to the nature of braid. You can easily damage the line when applying rasping type pressure and running the line back down itself as well as applying pressure from this same process if you have the line at an angle etc.

Horse, these wind on's are not new, have used them before as have guys like FrankOO, but to get an independent view, pictures and run them in a "real world" environment, I gladly accepted the challenge. Eric has been making them for quite some time, but only for his use.
They are so good, it had been suggested to him that he should market them by many people, but before that can go ahead, it is always nice to send some out to boof heads like me and see if I can bugger them up, or get a failure or maybe even suggest an improvement.
So they are definately not unproven or even prototypes.
As a small business owner myself, I like to encourage people from the outside to test my gear if I have a new produst ready to market. These people are usually regular customers who I know well and know will give the gear a good work out. They generally pay for the gear because they also know that I'm not a charity, and they are quite happy to do so.
Normally a hobby is fun but not free.
I will be doing a post soon on this gear, but will be getting some more info and pics. Only too happy to do it for Eric and this is something that spins my wheels so why not do it.
Tim

[Tim_N]

Hi Dave_H,
The Egrell wind on's use a single loop connection. I will post some pics soon in a new thread.
Tim

[NIZ180]

I have been trialling some soon to be released Egrell wind on leaders with excellent results. The drag pressures I have been putting on them have in some cases, been redlining the Certates.
What is required is a 50 to 70 turn Bimini, and for that purpose I have been using the PAULUS Bimini aid, which gives approx 100% knot strength, then the Egrell wind on's.
Tim


Hey Tim, what is this bimini aid you mention look like? I've googled for a similar device before & haven't seen anything worth buying when I can just use my foot.

[Tim_N]

Take a look at the Paulus site.
http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm
There is miles of really good info here, especially for guys like me who are a bit particular about lines, knots, diameters, breaking strains etc.
I think there might even be a You Tube thingy on there so you can see it in action. If you're keen on keeping 100% or close to, this is a big help.
I hope this helps,
Tim

[PNG1M]

For several years when fishing for black bass & barra in PNG I always went back to the albright. I found it to be consistently reliable when using 50-60lb leader to 20kg braid.

Its here in the Hints & Tips animated knot section BUT do around TWENTY WRAPS up and another twenty back down.

Tie the knot with patience and keep everything as close & snug & tidy as you can.
I can't remember that knot failing me even once.

[Sergio_kutz]

The best knot you can tie, is the one you tie the best. Once you're skilled at tying each knot perfectly (which i know myself i'm always needing to do things better) then looking at the type of knot. Like everything, it's about confidence. If you know you tie a good albright knot, and you tie it well everytime, and THEN it breaks, then maybe you should look for a new knot. Most of it is the skill in tying the knot tho in my opinion.

Serge

[alleycat]

I will bet you any money you have a bad spool of braid, i reckon about 25% of some brands of braid just wont tie a knot, i find crystal fireline the most dependable and a uni to uni knot for light line is good, and double the braid if your using very light braid, also i recently had a lot of trouble with 1.5kg braid trying to tie on a 16 lb leader for snapper, every knot broke so i tried tying on a 6 lb leader to braid then attached a 16lb leader to the 6 lb via a uni knot, this worked...it seems the light braids dont behave to well when you use a heavier leader..

[grave41]

Hi, if your having trouble with the improved albright go through the loop twice when finishing and it locks tighter.
A wind on leader is a wind on leader no matter who makes it provided it's done correctly.
Just spend the time learning some different knots and most of all check there breaking strain before setting the drag on your reel or bye bye fish.

Graham

[Paulus]

Hey guys
I have been watching this post on leader connections for a while, the number of knots for braid to leader and more so names of knots that are mentioned is staggering.
I know some of them so I thought i might have a look at some, and do a review but with a little difference, I decided to measure the size of the knot as this seems to be of major concern, Some of the knots just take too long to do, so short cuts are taken with devistating results.
A good knot for a heavy leader is never going to be quick one to do, but should at least be slim.
The end resut may be a knew slim knot, as some new knots I have developed and tying are promising, like 93% of braid test strength.
It's an interesting subject, from what i have seen todate is, that without a double in the braid it's hard to get good strength.
Paulus
[/URL]

Anyway I have reviewed a few, and will do a lot more.
[URL]http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm (http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm)

[NIZ180]

Yeh I agree!! to this day I still struggle tying a slim beauty with confidence & have seen various different ways of tying it. Same with the albright & improved albright, tho I am fairly confident tying it but I'm sure others tie it differently to me. I want to move away from tying doubles as I find this a major cause of knots hanging up during casting. I may even try my hand at making some decent wind on's for offshore.

[trueblue]

I had a tried and previously thought fool proof leader knot let go on me the other day, on a really good fish. p!ssed me off.

I had a double on the braid tied with a spider hitch, and the double was tied to the leader with a double uni knot.

since I have been onto a few good fish lately I started watching my double uni knot......... and got a big surprise.

I have always cut the tail on the mono / fluro leader quite short - big mistake to do that before properly loading up the knot to tighten it.

I previously cut the tail to about 1.5mm. 3 good fish later, and the tail on the knot was about to get pulled inside the knot.

Now I am using a piece of round broom handle to get a good wrap of braid (so I can pull on it) and really loading up the knot before trimming the tail - and I am putting a dob of super glue onto it.

so far - so good, but as always, we'll see down the track

cheers

Mick

[Paulus]

Hi
I take it you are using a so called FC, Braid does tend to not bite in and hold.
You may gain a slight advantage with abrasion resistance but loose out in formability.
Flatten out your braid before starting the knot, will help.
I believe that mid range hardness leaders in the end are a better way to go.
Keep in mind that an albright will impact with use and will let go.
Paulus

[trueblue]

I gave up on the albright knots - lost too many good fish on them and I reckon I was tying them properly

Biggest thing for me recently was to start tying a double in the braid, that fixed many of my problems

[Shnappahead]

Hi guys,
I've just been reading thru this invaluable information & was wondering if you could clear up some things for me.
I would like to know what you suggest as the best knot for 60lb braid to 80lb leader?

List of knots I think might work are:
FG Knot
Slim Beauty
Double grinner knot
Improved albright
Tony Jones Leader
Also, is there somewhere I can find out how to tie the SB & double grinner knots? I have the Geoff Wilson book but Im not sure if either of these knots are featured in it?

Thanks in advance.

[Paulus]

Hey Guys
Seeing that I have just made a bimini twist tool, and with it it, it needs a knot to get the best out of the line system.
The albright knot is a slim knot, but when you start adding bulk like the two legs of a bimini, up and then back is starts to get a little bulky especially with 3 through the eye at the end, then you also have the problem of the tag end facing forward, after doing a lot of testing and little sleeping this is the end result.
This knot has no tag end facing forward as it's covered by the ramp. This is a very slim knot.
I just did a bimini in 30 lb Suffix and this knot on 60 lb black magic trace and got a braid failure of 29.38lb well above the bimini, thats 93.5% of the test value of the braid.


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/Paulusvg/Apaulus2.gif



11 hrs work in that little monster.
I have added in a few extra frames to make it a little easier.

Paulus
A lot of info here
http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

[grave41]

Paulus,
Very interesting an similar to an fg knot through and over a double with a rizuto finish .As im a bit of a knot nut i gotta have a go at it.
Why does any one need a double when you can tie an fg or shout pr knot
. Just a waste of time.
imo Graham

[Paulus]

Hey guys

Well believe me you need that double.
If your playing with 15lb test stuff just use a double blood, but go heavier and the tests proove you need it, no old wives / bs tales told on the tester.

Did a little work on a loop to loop today as i had made a promise to a member here.



http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/Paulusvg/LooptoLoop2.gif



One time through is not enough
Hope it helps
Paulus

[grave41]

The shout pr knot is used for gt fishing if it can handle a 50kg gt it's good enough for me.
Graham