Thoughts on ice???

[Dean1]

Hi wondering what the majority of us on here do in realation to ice.

My trips are becoming longer now and ice seems to be an issue. My banks overnighters etc. are no probs but trips of up to 3 days and the likes see ice becoming more of a problem.


I usually freeze 2 litre bottles and those in a saltwater slurry seem to last about 2 days max if the lid isnt continually lifted. But when out on the water for over 2 days this becomes a problem. Well for a start where can you buy 'REAL' block ice these days. Caboolture ice works has compressed 'party' ice and there like $5 a block. 10-20 blocks soon adds up and wont even go the distance. What are we doing? Whats an ice machine worth? Ive thought about buying another chest freezer just to acommadate/create 'real' block ice.

Regards, Dean.

[rowanda]

what sort of esky are you using. I have a tropical ice box and have no prob getting atleast 5 days out of it and thats being opened by kids etc as well all the time

[insideout]

would advise against using ice dean...very bad drug....now that that bit of sillyness is out the way, would you consider using dry ice for the longer hauls??/
We used to use it for the fraser fishing comp , and it lasted for a long time, even with the lid opening and closing.

I propose we give it a test,and buy some dry ice and beer in a very large esky and try out the benifits of it against normal ice....

Failing that, i have bought a 400 litre freezer, and found some big tubs and frozen them,and they have lasted the distance for up to 4 days.

Apprently the slower the ice is frozen, the betta it is..

[Wahoo]

G'Day Dean, an ice machine for at home will set you back about 1k, good value, i have looked into this also, but then worked out a 600L freezer is better, i make my own 15kg block ice, i have 2 tubs and make them out of this, the freezer has got 6 of these blocks at any one time, the food esky has one + a bag of party, the other has 2 maybe 3 blocks, when we get home the ice from the food esky goes back in the freezer and ready for next trip, at first we were using quite a few $$$ on ice every trip, was getting beond a joke, dont forget the longer you leave the ice in the freezer the harder it gets and longer it will last


Daz

[insideout]

sorry, i forgot to say, that in my kc i measured out the eskys and created a "bed" of ice on the bottom made up of square blocks of ice that worked very well.

They all eventually fused togeather , making a big block, perfect for the outside trips.

i made my ice in blocks, for i found the ones out of buckets (rounded) smashed the eskys inside with all the movement, and often mulched some of the fish...

[Dean1]

would advise against using ice dean...very bad drug....now that that bit of sillyness is out the way, would you consider using dry ice for the longer hauls??/
We used to use it for the fraser fishing comp , and it lasted for a long time, even with the lid opening and closing.

I propose we give it a test,and buy some dry ice and beer in a very large esky and try out the benifits of it against normal ice....

Failing that, i have bought a 400 litre freezer, and found some big tubs and frozen them,and they have lasted the distance for up to 4 days.

Apprently the slower the ice is frozen, the betta it is.. Ha ha yeah the smack just aint cuttin it these days ;D Mate you cant use dry ice in a slurry can you?? The 400 ltr freezer sounds the go, and I know what your saying about smashing the fish this can happen if its rough offshore they get pounded from the bottles. A large block sounds the go, will have to do some homework. Maybe just pop the ice out of the tub and keep making them. The inbuilt esky in my boat doesnt seem to last the distance like the poly techni ice esky. But a heap of block in there shold do the trick as long as I dont run out of room for the reds ;) Thanx for the replies

[lee8sec]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MANTOWOC-ICE-MAKER-ICE-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ250445587815QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment ?hash=item3a4fb86567&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C 301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Dean1]

G'Day Dean, an ice machine for at home will set you back about 1k, good value, i have looked into this also, but then worked out a 600L freezer is better, i make my own 15kg block ice, i have 2 tubs and make them out of this, the freezer has got 6 of these blocks at any one time, the food esky has one + a bag of party, the other has 2 maybe 3 blocks, when we get home the ice from the food esky goes back in the freezer and ready for next trip, at first we were using quite a few $$$ on ice every trip, was getting beond a joke, dont forget the longer you leave the ice in the freezer the harder it gets and longer it will last


Daz Yeah mate cheers for that. Seems to be the go I think I was on the right track. 600 ltr is a decent freezer!! Did you buy that new??

[lee8sec]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COMMERCIAL-ICE-MAKER_W0QQitemZ250447680225QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_B usiness_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment?h ash=item3a4fd852e1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C 301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MANTOWOC-ICE-MAKER-ICE-MACHINE_W0QQitemZ250445587815QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment ?hash=item3a4fb86567&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C 301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Wahoo]

Yeah mate cheers for that. Seems to be the go I think I was on the right track. 600 ltr is a decent freezer!! Did you buy that new??

G'day Dean, yes i did buy it new about 2 yrs ago, best thing i did for bait and ice

Daz

[Dean1]

what sort of esky are you using. I have a tropical ice box and have no prob getting atleast 5 days out of it and thats being opened by kids etc as well all the time The inbuilt esky in the boat is a KC factory 250 litre job, the additional esky is Techi ice 200ltr which does seem better than the built in esky. But when your'e adding fish to the inbuilt esky with slurrie it will obviously be working harder especially if fish are put straight in after their bled. I like to leave them in the bin to cool down a bit before throwing them into the slurrie. Cheers.

[finding_time]

what sort of esky are you using. I have a tropical ice box and have no prob getting atleast 5 days out of it and thats being opened by kids etc as well all the time


It the fish that burns the ice not quality of the esky so much!


Deano this is my biggest issue i reckon and i think it all comes down to starting volume. i dont like block ice i'm a crushed fan but you need more, for a 3 day trip i reckon about 80 kg is a good staring point, 3 x20 kg bags in the main esky (400L)and 1 x 20 kg bag in a spare esky( 80L) with your cold food. When filling the esky i lay the fish in the bottom and open one bag at a time so it's easy to handle, the extra ice in the other esky is my back up , so is the other esky if we catch heaps!Make sure the ice is cold ice!!!!!! I know that sounds silly but it makes a huge differance , if you ice is dripping water to start with your in big trouble , i like it so cold that it sticks to your fingers when you handle it. I often by ice from Coles, and chilli it righ down in my own freezer a week before a trip and never have an issue! If your leaving from 1770 the servo there has 20 kg bag for sale quite cheap and these are usually great quality!

Ian

[Heath]

If you make your ice out of seawater, it lasts a hell of a lot longer. Takes longer to freeze as salt water has a lower freezing temp, but does last significantly longer.
In summer normal fresh water ice lasts us about 5-6hours, seawater ice still has about 30% left after 5-6hours. This is in our kill tank which is not insulated.

[trueblue]

If you make your ice out of seawater, it lasts a hell of a lot longer. Takes longer to freeze as salt water has a lower freezing temp, but does last significantly longer.
In summer normal fresh water ice lasts us about 5-6hours, seawater ice still has about 30% left after 5-6hours. This is in our kill tank which is not insulated.

I do this as well. or put salt into the frozen bottles. It takes longer to freeze, but stays frozen longer.

if you can't carry enough wet ice to keep cold for the trip, buy a block of dry ice and wrap it in newspaper. Keep the dry ice on top of the rest of your ice, and this will keep the wet ice frozen. dry ice is rated in 'days' ie, a 7 day block, a 4 day block etc. Thats how long it takes for the dry ice to evaporate away.

[Dean1]

Interesting comment about the saltwater lasting longer. 2 ltr orange juice bottles last a very long time, they never seem to break but 2 litre milk containers only last 1 trip, the fish puncture them. I mite fill my bottles with saltwater now thats great to know.

If im doing an overnighter at the banks about 12 2 litre bottles go the distance, but my last 1770 trip I had 10 blocks in the inbuilt esky and a 200ltr backup full of party ice and 2 blocks in there. The backup ice was added throughout the trip, after 2nd day and before heading back to Brissy etc.

The ice in the backup lasted exceptional it was a solid block virtually after 2 days those techni ice eskys are brilliant I was very impressed!!

Ian I do have a 400 ltr chest freezer at Rules mate so that is very handy, just throw the ice in there overnight before heading out in the AM.

Ive just insulated my livebait tank, its 120 litres it wil be my new Bait/livebait tank.

Nothing like been organized ;)

[insideout]

ive often thought on one of my drunken hazes, if we have a microwave to make things hot so fast, why dont we have a microwave type thingy to freeze things fast...scuse me while i get another wine..::) ::)

[Wahoo]

ive often thought on one of my drunken hazes, if we have a microwave to make things hot so fast, why dont we have a microwave type thingy to freeze things fast...scuse me while i get another wine..::) ::)


LOL......snap freezerwave or LN2 wave


Daz

[White Pointer]

Gday,

This is the techni-ice website. www.techniice.com/english/index.htm (http://www.techniice.com/english/index.htm)

This stuff works.

Regards,

White Pointer

[gleeeza]

Yes the Ice!!!

I have an insulated in floor job and mostly use chip ice from the co-op with some home made block ice as a supplement to keep some chip ice spare in the boats spare esky if I extend my trip or for putting the fillets in.

I also have a 126l tropical and went out to buy tupperware containers that fit perfectly across the bottom half of the box. These then become my storage containers for food on the long hauls. This is good because I dont have to worry about draining(wasting) water off all the time, air is a gas and is harder to keep cold.

These blocks from the tupperware containers are about 10-15l so are a good size for the fish box when I cant get to the co-op.

Gleeeza

[Angla]

I tend to use the 2 and 3 litre juice bottles and fill them with half a cup of pool salt. Last weekend I took them out for 5 hours and when I brought them back they were still frozen solid and the cans of drink that were with them ended up being frozen too.

Cheers
Chris

[Sea-Dog]

...I also have a 126l tropical and went out to buy tupperware containers that fit perfectly across the bottom half of the box...

Gleeeza

Hey Gleeza, I have a 126L Tropical too. I'm interested in the tupperware idea. Any model numbers or whatever?

I currently use 3L milk bottles stored in the chest freezer in those green shopping bags. It makes them a lot easier to lift into and out of the freezer and eski. I leave them in the bags in the eski too - it stops them sliding around and falling over etc.

I did have some of those 15L bottled water containers from the supermarket (the ones with a built-in tap). They stay frozen for a LONG time.

[stevej]

id be leaving the salt out be nice to know if something happens you can drink the water if need be

[gleeeza]

Seadog

The brand I got was starmaid and you had to buy a set to get 1 of the large ones. I use 4 of the large to fill the bottom of the esky completely. They are 250 mm wide from memory and I found them at big W. The decore ones did not work because the sides were slightly rounded and were just too big.

I like what I am hearing about the salt water but I went camping with a super geek last year at Northwest Is and he poo pooed the idea saying that it doesn't last as long.,it freezes at a lower temp but doesn,t hold it as long I will just have to do a little test!!!

[Cav(J.C.)]

Hi Dean1,
Mate, if i can pass on some of the principles then you can make up your own mind.
For Ice to work , it must suck heat from that which is being cooled.
Energy has been used to make the Ice, and this is the energy which the ice uses to cool the product. Some is lost through insulation .
Now --the tricky bits
Ice melts at 0Deg.c.
If the ice is cooled below ODeg(Subcooled) there is a small amount of energy used to do this, But nowhere near the energy required to change water into ice at the same temperature. (latent heat)
This is the main energy used in cooling. All the sub cooling may do is preserve the ice in solid form untill it has to do it's work. That's when it starts to melt, and sucks in the heat.
Are you bored yet?-- well I'll keep trying.
The coolinc capacity , or how much the ice can cool depends only on mass (how much weight of ice you have)
The quickness of cooling depends on the surface area of the ice, and the temperature difference between the ice and the product being cooled.
(Thats why ice cubes or crushed ice cool quicker)
But beware--you get nothing for nothing--the ice melts faster.
So---mass, surface area , temp difference.
Next thing---brine or salt water ice.
Great stuff, but what you must realise is , all you are doing is lowering the temp that the Ice freezes (eutectic tanks are made this way) Depends on the amount of salt, the ice may freeze( or melt) at Minus 5 or minus 10
So--- the product will be cooler,and cool down quicker but the temp difference between the product and the ice will be larger, so the ice will melt quicker.
Sorry--you cant get something for nothing.
I hope this helps and doesn't confuse.
J.C.(Cav)

[Dean1]

id be leaving the salt out be nice to know if something happens you can drink the water if need be Mate I have thought the same, survival at sea. The whole salt idea has got me thinking tho!

[Dean1]

Hi Dean1,
Mate, if i can pass on some of the principles then you can make up your own mind.
For Ice to work , it must suck heat from that which is being cooled.
Energy has been used to make the Ice, and this is the energy which the ice uses to cool the product. Some is lost through insulation .
Now --the tricky bits
Ice melts at 0Deg.c.
If the ice is cooled below ODeg(Subcooled) there is a small amount of energy used to do this, But nowhere near the energy required to change water into ice at the same temperature. (latent heat)
This is the main energy used in cooling. All the sub cooling may do is preserve the ice in solid form untill it has to do it's work. That's when it starts to melt, and sucks in the heat.
Are you bored yet?-- well I'll keep trying.
The coolinc capacity , or how much the ice can cool depends only on mass (how much weight of ice you have)
The quickness of cooling depends on the surface area of the ice, and the temperature difference between the ice and the product being cooled.
(Thats why ice cubes or crushed ice cool quicker)
But beware--you get nothing for nothing--the ice melts faster.
So---mass, surface area , temp difference.
Next thing---brine or salt water ice.
Great stuff, but what you must realise is , all you are doing is lowering the temp that the Ice freezes (eutectic tanks are made this way) Depends on the amount of salt, the ice may freeze( or melt) at Minus 5 or minus 10
So--- the product will be cooler,and cool down quicker but the temp difference between the product and the ice will be larger, so the ice will melt quicker.
Sorry--you cant get something for nothing.
I hope this helps and doesn't confuse.
J.C.(Cav) Mate it does make sense thanks for the reply. What are your thoughts on this. When I have my freshwater ice, be it bottles full or Blockice, in my inbuilt esky( this is the esky i put the fish in) as soon as I hit the water I 3/4 fill it with saltwater out of the ocean, esky is 250 litres. I always think gee this is hot water (water temp say 21.5) into the ice. The ice obviously looses it coolness but becomes the slurrie. Ive always thought slurries are good for the fish??? Would I be better off leaving the water out?? Interesting comment about the saltwater theory, cheers.

[Horse]

Dean, a lot of guys who fish longer trips use a small slurry esky to chill the fish before they put them into the storage esky in either clean slurry or on ice. As cold fish go into storage new ice is added to the chilling slurry

Cheers

Neil

[coucho]

no definetly better in the slurry IMO ^^ but if you have a second esky what we do is just take it chock full off "ice bottles" this esky is ice only and only gets opened to take ice out to put in the primary esky once the ice in the primary esky melts we change it out. do have the luxury of a big freezer at home solely devoted to bait and ice though but you can pick these up second hand fairly cheap and don't use that much electricity if they are kept resonable full of Ice blocks as the ice helps keep the temp constant.

[bdaearth]

Ha ha yeah the smack just aint cuttin it these days ;D Mate you cant use dry ice in a slurry can you?? The 400 ltr freezer sounds the go, and I know what your saying about smashing the fish this can happen if its rough offshore they get pounded from the bottles. A large block sounds the go, will have to do some homework. Maybe just pop the ice out of the tub and keep making them. The inbuilt esky in my boat doesnt seem to last the distance like the poly techni ice esky. But a heap of block in there shold do the trick as long as I dont run out of room for the reds ;) Thanx for the replies

Mate if all you want to do is keep the REDS that you catch cold I have a 12lt esky you can use:LMAO:

[ozbee]

off the hand i use the one third rule which works pretty well. i have a 300 litre esky which i fill with 9 10 kg solid blocks of ice (fresh) . when reaching destination i remove 6 blocks eg 2 thirds. fill the esky op with the remaining 3 blocks till one third full with saltwater. the 3 blocks will nearly all be melted away but your esky will be holding one third below zero brine . under no circumantances add drinks or cans as they will freeze and split.

return rest of the ice blocks to esky.
what you now have is six blocks float high in the brine as they are fresh .when you catch any fish drop straight into the esky alive . the below zero water cause the fish to go to sleep and also draws blood in the fish to the organs instead of being in there fillets hence white fillets. fish put in this way will also keep there colour.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/ozbee_photos/SANY0302.jpg

above shows fish i caught hours ago see how fresh they look still .we had to empty it because a stack of cans feel in .

as the esky fill just push them under the blocks floating on top. magically when the esky is full to the bream with fish you may have to smash the last blocks up the solution will be level with the top..

the reason you take the 2 third blocks straight out is if you don't and add salt water the blocks will weld them self together.

if you want to also keep drinks in just put them in a container above the brine as it s temperature is the basic 0.

advantages is fish chill almost instantly with no filleting on board also even though they are below freezing they stay pliable. and keep colour as fresh as new as well as whiter fillets with no bruising.

pick up a old freezer and master butchers or food wholesaler has tapered 10 kg moulds suitable for freezing and empty easily because of the taper.

sure saves a lot of stacking and re stacking worries of fish staying fresh on top of each other. hope this helps.

[Dean1]

Ozbee that does help mate thanks alot for that. Im on the hunt for a chest freezer and these 10kg moulds now. What sort of reels are you using there in the pic?? Cheers..

[block]

I went to a second hand shop and got a 400L freezer for $200. In this I set 20L blocks using a square container/bucket. Some I leave whole and some I break up with a hammer and screw driver and bag long before a trip. So there is a mix of block and crushed. I like to add a little bit of crushed ice out of the bag as the fish go in and one or two big blocks to a 200L box. If the 20L blocks are old (over 6 weeks) there is no problems getting 5 days. All old bait goes in this freezer and gets chopped up for the next trip. Have had the freezer for 10 years now so all my ice in that time has come to $200 and a bit of my time. That would even make a new freezer cheep compared to what you can spend on ice over that time.
Regards
Dwane

[Alchemy]

I've got a couple of tupperware type containers that I use for making blocks. Eight litres of water goes into each, with two heaped table spoons of salt. I dissolve the salt in a cup of boiling water before mixing thoroughly with the rest of the water. Before I dissolved the salt this way I would often have a residue in the base of the container.

These blocks fit the width of my 200l Icekool perfectly, and I can fit five of these in the bottom. I then put about 20kg of party ice over the top, which freezes to the blocks forming a solid mass. I also take another 20kg bag of party ice, plus another 20kg of party ice in the boats freezer.

Once we start catching fish I pump sea water into the esky to make a slurry, then start to spread more party ice over them to ensure they stay cold. Last time we did this we were away for two nights, and I had stacks of ice remaining once home. The slurry was cold enough to freeze a bottle of drinking water I left in it.

I'd be wary of buying your own ice maker, unless you can or have a mate who is familiar with maintaining and repairing them as they can be a real P.I.T.A.

Regards,
Dave.

[FNQCairns]

Another thought, ice bought or made at -6deg will melt fast, ice made or bought? at -16 or -19deg will last for ages, long enough that only half the volume is needed.

Recently 40L of ice made in bottles then placed in a 110L Tropicool esky lasted 8 days well, the last 4 with almost home style 240V on tap opening and closing treatment.

cheers fnq

[-spiro-]

Dean make your own. I make 20litre blocks and also some 2 litre ones so the ice dosén't move round in the esky. Last time 3 days wasn't a problem. I only have a 270l freezer and it works a treat.