Pictures of slugs and sliders

[yellowbeard]

Hi guys,

I might have mentioned before that I got instantly hooked on beach fishing last year. It's a sad tale. The tailor happened to be 'on' from my first visit and I bagged 8 biggies on pillies. Then as the months went on I graduated to bream, and when they're on they can't resist the ol' cooked venamai prawns. But tailor are becoming a bit more elusive. I've been trying Kokoda Roger lures, but can't chuck 'em far enough and have to put a barrel sinker on to get even mild distance. I've been reading here about slugs and sliders, and am keen to tinker in the garage to produce a few.
If I've got this right I can't get more distance by using about 4kg line with about 15kg leader, which I guess is tied with a bloodknot. I've got a few rods but maybe the 12ft Pelican -- not a lot of whip in it though -- but then the bream rod is too whippy.
I'd love to see pics of home made slugs and sliders, even if they're taken with a mobile phone camera. I've set up a photobucket account for anyone who's not used to posting pics here. So you just upload your pic to photobucket.
http://s681.photobucket.com/albums/vv177/slugmaker/
The username is slugmaker and the password is also slugmaker. Just login and select Choose files to upload the pic from your PC. (Use the account for any pics you like for the future)
Then you copy the "Direct Link" under the pic.
In Ausfish you click on the "insert image" icon on the top toolbar -- and paste the direct link into the box.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv177/slugmaker/icon.jpg


Just one more thing. I've had this lure, which some guy in the tackle shop swore by some years ago. It's a Halco -- Smiths No 5 I think. Think it's supposed to be for trolling for big surface fish. Could this be modified or used as a tailor lure?

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv177/slugmaker/Halco.jpg

Cheers

Yellowbeard

[hooknose]

Gday Yellowbeard, there was originally pictures of sliders posted in the "spinning for Tailor" thread, unfortunately Ausfish seems to have lost them and many of the useful images posted in old threads that provided a wealth of information on rigs etc, for ausfishers( many of these posters do not contribute any more and use other chat forums these days). It was a major stuff up when they upgraded servers or something. Some guys lost there usernames(eg Surfsniper) as well after being on ausfish for years, was never fixed up. Hopefully Slider will repost them if he sees this thread. Might want to post a request to him in the "spinning for tailor" thread.
Cheers !!

[DigitalSI]

Save time and buy a Halco 40gm Twisty in Silver. It will suit a 4Kg line with a 15kg leader and the 12' rod with bugger all whip should be fine. Just use a 30~40cm leader. My 10' Wilson has bugger all whip, i use 20lb mainline with 40lb leader and I seem to cast the distance, though, I use 55 & 70gm ones on that rod. 40gm twistys I use on my 9' Gary Howard Viper with 15lb main line and 40lb leader. If the Tailor are there I can 99.99% say you will hook up with these slugs.

www.halcotackle.com/twisty.html (http://www.halcotackle.com/twisty.html)

[sleepygreg]

The halco twistys are a great lure, you can use them with varying speeds, rip em across as fast as you can wind, or use a slow jerky retrieve and they still have action. The second pic is the classic smiths jig.......an oldy but a goody....used by the pros for catching kingies, tuna, mackeral and dollies. They usually use them on lead lines or cord lines....solid as a brick outhouse...but you have to give them the action...hard to describe in words..but its like working a soft plastic at trolling speeds.

Greg

[Slider]

Have put a pic of one of Sliders on the 'Spinning for Tailor' thread Yellowbeard, and a bit of info on availability. Send me a pm if you like.

The trolling lure you ask about - guessing weight would be 65 - 85g by looking at it. Could be used for tailor, but casting it would be a bit of a mare as it would tumble badly with hooks off to one side. Other than that it would work.

You mention 15kg leader - I think that should be 15lb. And it is a casting leader - about 6 metres long that when casting has a wrap or 2 on the spool. The idea is to prevent throwing lures off as would happen with 4kg - the line being held at the finger during a cast is 15lb and at the tip runner is 15lb which should prevent cast offs. Change the casting leader every 50 or so casts as the mono weakens at the finger and at the tip runner - if being cast correctly.
A leader of anything under 100lb mono will not prevent tailor biting through. The guys that use 30 or 40lb leader to guard against teeth are absolutely kidding. Someone once said on this site that tailor can bite through wire - well they were kidding themselves also.

Lindsay

[deepfried]

hey mate i havent got photos but making tailor lures with barrel and bean sinkers is fairly simple. I have used them made with 60lb mono ( not recommended ), single strand wire and multi strand wire. I just use a sinker, length of any of the above a split ring and a treble. Basically attach split ring onto leader then run a barrel or bean sinker onto it. You can add a red bead above the sinker if you want for a bit of colour or not. Attach what ever hook system you want to use and you are ready to go. I then tie it to the mainline with a double uni for mono, swivel if using single strand wire and for multi strand i cheat and use those cheap premade wire leaders but cut the swivel and clip of them and tie onto the loop at one end. Cheap and easy and they work. You can get fancy and tie feathers to the hooks add more coloured beads, paint the sinkers i just spray them with chrome paint or buff them up with a bit of steel wool etc etc. So basically it only costs you a sinker, split ring, hook/s and the leader. You can go to as much trouble as you like as long as they work i guess. hardest part is finding the fish.

[yellowbeard]

I'm starting to get the idea. I bought some Force10 trace wire yesterday (and some spit rings). It's got those little tubes that you either crimp or "weld", with a warning not to burn the protective coating. What's best -- to crimp or weld? Would you dangle a couple of 4.0 hooks instead of the treble or what? Also bought some Yank Berkley 4kg line. Had my hand on some cheapie Jarvis Walker 4kg line for a minute but since using their reels I think I'd rather get smallpox than another Jarvis Walker product. The Fireline (think that's what it's called) was very expensive. Anyone got a preference for 4Kg mono?
Hey Slider, did you make that lure in the "Spinning for Tailor" thread? Have you got any idea how something like that would turn out if I tried to make it? I'm no Leonardo Da Vinci. So what does a mug like me do? Couldn't get the right size barrel sinkers, so I'll have to shop around. I've got some old brass rollicks that maybe I could shape into something -- sacrilege!!
I'm thinking that considering the often windy conditions where I fish that weight will be critical. I can cast about a 50 or 60grm ball sinker reasonably far, so I'm thinking about that weight. Seems to be all about getting the right ratio between the sinker weight and the flexibility of the rod.

[Slider]

Yellowbeard, there was a thread a couple of years ago = 'Sliders - How To Make' which might help. There have been a lot of people trying to find ways to make them and we had plenty of fun ourselves until Prickly Pete solved the problem for us. It's not easy, but I recall Nico came up with a good idea involving existing slug moulds.
First started making sliders in about '95 mate - firstly in Prickly Pete's mould one at a time, then in a spincasting machine that pours around 20 per minute.

120lb 49 strand wire is best for rigging sliders on and I would suggest crimping rather than welding. Hard mono leader such as Mason or Penn 10x can be used, but tailor will eventually chew through due to the slug sliding. For tuna, queenies, gts etc that don't have teeth that are a problem for mono, I tend to use between 35 and 100lb mono trace, depending on the target species. I crimp the hooks for 100lb and crimp a small loop for the casting leader to tie to, but tie the hooks on lighter leaders and directly to the casting leader.
I use 9lb Schneider Yellowbeard with a 15 - 20lb casting leader - usually Schneider, and have always been happy with its performance. A cheap line that I have used is the green stuff at BCF - not sure on brand name, but is like $4.50 for a 600 odd metre spool. Have used that line on queenies and gts over 30lb in the Gulf up north and on tailor here - it's not too bad but lasts about a third as long as Schneider before it needs replacing.

Lindsay

[fadd]

Lindsay is that 9lb schneider you use for mainline th original or the newer thinner diameter that came out a couple of years ago cheers Adam.

[fadd]

Lindsay is that 9lb schneider you use for mainline the original or the newer thinner diameter that came out a couple of years ago cheers Adam.

[Slider]

Is conventional green 9lb schneider Adam. Would be better lines for the purpose available no doubt, but I can recommend it with confidence to perform well, have good lifespan and is a respectable price.
Casting distance is massively improved by using 9lb instead of 15 or even 12 lb and there wouldn't be too many fish that this gauge won't handle from the beach providing leader set up is appropriate. Brute force isn't a method that I have ever found useful in the surf anyway. And as long as the reel holds good yardage - I only use TSS 4s for spinning and dread the day the 3 or 4 I have left are no longer serviceable - then it's no problem to give a spaniard or longtail 400 metres from the beach to knock himself up.

[fadd]

Thanks Lindsay for the info i also use the TSS4 and only have two left i will spool one up with the 9lb and use my 20lb schneider as leader. You reccomend about 3m of leader do you attatch this to the main line using a doublle uni or do you prefer another knot.I also subscribe to playing my fish than skull dragging as it is more enjoyable and skillful way to fish.I just purchased at a good price a 12ft Daiwa Heartland surf rated to 2oz this shoulld cast the 35-45grm slugs i use a fair distance cheers Adam

[Slider]

Fadd, that be 6 metres of casting leader - enough so that when casting, the leader has a wrap or 2 on the spool.
The knot I use in this situation is a 'double blood' - 2 normal blood knots back to back.

[fadd]

Thanks Lindsay all in the vault. Lindsay have you ever tried flurocarbon leader when tying straight to the lure i have had success on pillie rigs and will experiment with new setup.Also is there anywhere i can purchase the 45grm model sliders from i live Brisbane north cheers Adam.

[apconcen]

slider,

just to be clear..what poundage do you use for your leader AND what poundage do you use for you main line?

Is this a good setup for distance assuming you have your casting technique and proper rod/reel in order?

[Slider]

I have 9lb schneider as my main line with 15lb or 20lb schneider (whatever I have laying around) as my casting leader.

Is all about maximising distance without compromising ability to land fish. In mono lines, 9lb with a 15 - 20lb casting leader is the lowest poundage I deem that can be used safely on the likes of big tailor (10lb +), longtails, spaniards etc in the surf, but still achieve good distance casting without throwing lures off. I've used 6lb schneider several times and have beached longtails 8 - 10kg, broadbarred and tailor around 8lb, but have been busted up a fair bit in the process - which doesn't happen with 9lb. The leader knot is more vulnerable to break with 6lb.

Lindsay

[apconcen]

thanks slider,

huh.. I thought you said in your experience greenbacks will bite through anything less that 100lb for leader ??

1) I fish mostly from a Jetty[SPJ in Goldcoast] ..many people lose the greenbacks as they try to try to get them over the barrier about 10-15ft from sea level to over the rail on to the platform.

2) you can also imagine that when I use lures on the wind back they would be moving back to me at an angle as I cannot keep my rod tip down in the sea.

from experience I know I have to use a 20lb line with a say 0.45mm diameter to get the fighting greenback over the barrier.[ u should see the rod and the fight as the fish is suspended in mid-air for that 5 or so seconds or so..ur knots, swivel, rod and line better hold up :)]

my question is ...how much do you think my lure casting distance will be affected with the heavier line [20lb] I use ?

I use mostly 30lb -18"wire with pillies when the greenbacks are around. Do you think penn 10x 40lb[0.6mm] is too heavy for a leader ro attach to my lure ?

Any recommendations on a lure retreival technique I can use when one is 15ft over the sea level ?

thanks man

[yellowbeard]

Made up a pretty rough slider this morning before heading out to the beach. Just a large barrel sinker buffed up on the grinder. But Hawks Nest and Mungo have been the pits this week. Way too much chop and breaking out too far. And the noreaster yesterday was a mongrel. So I'll have to try it and a few of the other suggestions here another time.
http://www.coastalwatch.com/camera/cameras_large.aspx?cam=2700&state=NSW&t=3:07:04%20PM&camName=Hawks%20Nest
Will report on progress.

[deepfried]

For those interested i got the mold for this slug from barlows tackle in the US. I havent tricked it up or anything as i cant be stuffed and they catch fish as is. Also sorry about the poor picture. The mold has two different sizes, one make 60g and the other 90g slugs. There is a smaller mold as well with three sizes. To get stuff from them you have to spend $100 US though but you will save a heap not having to buy another slug after that.

[deepfried]

apconcen,
I will try to answer some of your questions as i think slider is away. He can correct anything i suggest thats wrong when he is back.
He is using sliders that have a 120lb wire leader to the 15 - 20lb leader then to the main line. The 120lb wire is to prevent bite offs, the 15 - 20lb leader is for casting so you dont get snap offs and the lighter main line is used to get distance.
If you want to increase your distance but keep abrasion resistance over the barrier use the heavier leader but make it only as long as you need to get the fish over the barrier ie if you only have 20' of line out when they get to the barrier then make your leader 20' + rod length and a couple of wraps around the spool. The main line can then be a lot lighter. This way you get the benefit of longer distance but the leader should protect you from abrasion. You will loose a fair bit of distance running a 20lb mainline.
40lb leader isnt too heavy but it wont stop bite offs. I use a 40lb leader ( for abrasion resistance more than anything ) then about 8 inches of single strand wire to the lure to stop the bite offs if green backs are around.
When you are 15' above sea level it makes it hard but try a few pauses and let the lure drop then star again. Read some of the oother threads and see how others do it and try them all. Other than that just see what works over time.

[apconcen]

thanks deepfried...very clear and helps me alot

can we get a bit specific with casting distance issue. What would be the maximum lb line that you would be willing to use on your mainline and what distance would you expect to acheive with a say a 2 oz sinker with pillie attached 'into' say a light 10knot wind assuming trace and leader setup as per above ?

What is the diameter of that line you would use ?

I ask because I use mainlines - 10kg [0.35mm] on one reel and 15kg[0.42mm] on the other reel..both with 10ft rods. I dont usually fish the rocks but do you think my lines are too heavy as I dont think I am casting more than 75mtrs? I am thinking of switching 1 reel to 6kg[0.28mm] mainline with my existing reel of penn 10x 40lb leader and 100lb wire trace.

How much more distance do you think I would get per cast with the new setup ?

[deepfried]

Mate i havent used pillies for a long time and use braid so i am not the best person to answer questions on mono. If your not fishing around rocks though you could drop your mainline down a fair bit but would need a casting leader. If you are going to go down to 6kg line, use a 20lb casting leader then your wire. You may not need wire though if you are using gangs. Try with and without wire to see what you like. I only use wire when spinning as a big tailor can take the whole lure and bite you off. Lighter mainlines def mean longer distance.
I am using 20lb braid that has a diameter of .18mm and have gone down to 14lb in the past but it was fire line so prob more like 20lb anyway.

[Slider]

Thanks Deepfried, I think you've covered things very nicely indeed.

Apconcen, casting distance increases substantially with lower poundage line, but technique and equipment play a big role also. Throwing 20lb line with 10 foot rods is never going to achieve large distances for anyone though. I'd be inclined to adopt Deepfried's suggestion of dropping back to say 15lb mono with perhaps 25lb casting leader for the jetty whether using baits or lures.

One thing I will add for those that don't want to use casting leaders and just want to tie their main line straight to a lure and cast. To achieve maximum distance and not throw off lures, 12 - 15lb mono is the line poundage I would recommend. If using lighter lures of say between 30g and 50g, then around 12lb would be the poundage of choice. If using heavier lures up to about 75g, then around 15lb would be a more appropriate poundage. In braid, 20 - 25lb would achieve similar results.

Using a casting leader has the added advantage of being able to change lure size readily on the same outfit.

Came back early from Pancake due to boat trailers (not mine) completely falling apart and outboard (not mine) not starting. Was lots of fun though towing a disintegrating trailer with a good for nothing boat on it from Teewah to Gladstone and back. The trailer was brand new and manufactured by some guy at Narangba that advertises his trailer manufacturing business. To say it was shoddily constructed would be a gross understatement. Extensive structural and welding repairs were required in Maryborough (after tow truck from near Poona) and in Gladstone - just got it there before it collapsed.

Lindsay

[yellowbeard]

After noticing that Slider's lure looked a bit like the BiLow $5.99 special, I tried one that I'd had in my tackle bag: Whang! hooked up almost straight away and went home with 3 nice greenbacks and lost about the same. Then rigged up with 4kg Berkley (yank) mono, tied a bloodknot onto 10K pre-test mono and tried a very rough surf in the arvo on the full tide. Couldn't believe the first cast -- bloody thing went out-of-sight, and I'm not kidding. Then almost immediate hook-up out back. These little suckers really work but out of 5 landed I lost 5 -- not counting the hits that didn't hook up, so I suppose this is because of the head-shake thing and the fact that my 60g Bilow (Neptune) pilchard lure is not a slider.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x189/boatbogged/lure.jpghttp://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x189/boatbogged/Tailor.jpg

[deepfried]

Also looks like a Gillies Pilchard and a bit cheaper. How did the trebles hold up. The Gillies trebles are shite. Good stuff getting a few it is a bit quiet down here.

[apconcen]

yelllowbeard,

where are you located? Its been pretty crap on the Gold coast with the westerlies

[hooknose]

Yellowbeard, try changing the hooks over to opposing 4/0's as slider suggests in "spinning for tailor" should increase your distance and increase your hook up/catch rate.
ps nice fish mate, nothin like a good spinning sesh to warm you up !!

[Slider]

Just one thing about the 'pilchard' lure pictured above - they have most of the weight at the tail end for jigging which often causes them to tumble when casting in to the breeze. I would put the hooks at the head end and tie the leader to the tail end for better casting. Won't affect hook up rates at all and will cast much better. But definately use opposite facing single hooks of 3/0 or 4/0 for tailor.

[yellowbeard]

This is Hawks Nest/Mungo Beach, Port Stephens. Yes that bloody westerly caught up on Saturday. Whilst conditions looked perfect, nice swell, high tide etc., didn't get a nibble, nothing, nada! As I mentioned previously I have a Pelican 12' rod and a Maple (something or other) for bream. And as someone said here the Pelican should be ok. Well it's just the ticket, that's because the bream rod is too whippy with a 60g lure. The Pelican is great. Some months ago this guy on the beach showed me his casting technique, which is: whilst standing sideways to the surf to hold the rod at your back with the casting hand dead straight then just on completion of the cast to bring the elbow of the other hand sharply into your stomach to get the whip. You end up with your own variations of this but it really gets the distance.
Yes, I'll try messing with the hooks.
Re the trebles, they're very sharp and I haven't had a prob so far. And like it says on the pack they are strong. A couple were so embedded in the tailor's mouth that I had a job getting them out.
Does anyone know how to make a lead mould, because I'm thinking about pressing one into some clay and making my own? Oddly enough in the 70s I used to be a pipe-leader (that's sealing up metal water pipes with lead) on the Gold Coast Council -- and we used to pour the lead into clay to get the right shape. And where do you buy the lead?

[fishel]

and we used to pour the lead into clay to get the right shape. And where do you buy the lead?

If you know any roofers that would keep the old roofing nails for you, they had a nice blob of lead on top of them.

Cheers Eleanor

[PNG1M]

Look seven posts above at Yellowbeards pics.

Was a Bcf today and almost bought a few lures that looked almost identical to the ones in the above pic. They were Gillies Pillies; and I think there was another brand on the shelf too that resembled it. So I'm gonna make sure I get a couple.

So what did I buy while there...? just a couple of packs of Gamakatsu Gangsters 4/0 size to go with the 2/0's & 3/0's I already have (for customising gangs).

[Stonkered]

Where are you Yellowbeard?

I'm in Brisbane. I have a couple of moulds that make 15-60g slugs that you could borrow if you wanted? Easy to make and certainly catch tailor, trevs, mackerel, tuna....

[Jus]

Lindsay,

Hope all is well - when are we going fishing..... lol;D

Just got back from PNG - chasing black/spottail bass and other lovely critters.

Have you got some sliders for me as i have one left after my recent trip to PNG.

Time is currently in my favour and will give you a holler for a fish somewhere in the near future.

How is tewah fishing at the moment - thinking about heading your way in the next week or so....

let me know if you need bearings for the TSS4's - i think ihave some here still - but if not i will chase up some people if you need some more.

I think it is time we get some footage of "spinning for tailor' and the gear that is used - What do you think???:)

Justin

[yellowbeard]

Where are you Yellowbeard?

I'm in Brisbane. I have a couple of moulds that make 15-60g slugs that you could borrow if you wanted? Easy to make and certainly catch tailor, trevs, mackerel, tuna....

Thanks Stonkered, that's certainly a generous offer, but I'm in Port Stephens.

Thanks anyway'

Cheers.

[Slider]

Hey Jus, when you come up, can you bring a data recovery program with you? Have been offline for a week due to a faulty new hard drive and have lost a fair bit of stuff that I didn't want to. Hopefully will still be some fish about when you do - has been good numbers of choppers north that have been spawning in the one section of beach for a week or so. Decent fish are hard to find but beggars can't be choosers. Any parts for tss4's would be welcomed mate. I can only put together 3 good reels now with semi worn componentry - the end is nigh!
Played with an 85g slug with attached hooks on the choppers this week and was quickly reminded why we made sliders. The new batch has been delayed somewhere in between lies, but the latest info is that I will have them by Tuesday. Talk soon.

[Jus]

NO worries linds will give you a call in the next couple of days and we will line something up - i have some cool new camera gear which is mounted to glassess or hat and is wireless and should allow for unobstructed fishing.

I am currently chasing some contract coding work and as such only work tuesdays and thursdays at the moment. so i have long weekends at my disposal.. Cooper is now 3.5 mths old and is sadly takin after me - long and always hungry. Tahlia is good and is itching for a fish - somehow i think the pink bcf rod and reel package will be no good for chasing tailor or any other oooglies that hang around.


Speak soon.

Jus