Dealer Complaint Question

[Beeracudda]

I don't really know whether to name the dealer in my ordeal yet but I'll try and keep it generic in order to get some sort of answers.

I sold my boat over a month ago with a dealer, my boat is a 32' Mustang cruiser so we are dealing with larger amounts of money, and to my horror found out about a week after I'd sold it that they didn't payout my finance loan as agreed. After many phone calls we finally got to speak with management and the error was in the money was deposited into their trading account not there trust account and as such the money has been spent. After I got up off the floor I then discussed the matter and was assured that they were getting money in to pay for the vessel and made a date to payout the loan this date come and gone and after investigation found that the money had gone to pay other bills! Now another date has been set which is today Tuesday 9th June and guess what management is unavailable and won't return calls.

Does anyone know what body handles disputes for the marine industry as this is a clear default on there part and with all the boat yards doing it tuff I am more than concerned!!!! :-[

[wags on the water]

Maybe the Police would be a start.

[PinHead]

did you have a contract stating that they would pay out the boat?
Was it actually a dealer or a broker?
have you notified your finance company and shown them documentation from the dealer/broker that the boat has been sold?

Not an enviable situation you are in but I would be contacting your finance company and a solicitor immediately.

[Whitto]

You will be surprised what the Ombudsman can achieve......after contacting Magically things happen......certainly contact your Finance Co and your Solicitor

[Reel Nauti]

Definitely the finance company and the lawyer. Post haste. I'm sure you have a copy of the contract?

Dave

[peterbo3]

I am with everyone else.
So to clarify things, you were paid the purchase price less the commission & the finance company payout?
If this is correct, then the dealer knew full well that the finance company had to be paid.
I would contact the police, the finance company & my solicitor immediately. Do you have a copy of a brokerage agreement or was this a "handshake" or verbal agreement.They are feeding you a line. Act tomorrow.!!!!!!!!

[boatboy50]

Hey Beer,

Would this be a Mustang dealer loaceted on the Brisbane River who is causing problems?

Regards

Darren

[lee8sec]

I am with everyone else.
So to clarify things, you were paid the purchase price less the commission & the finance company payout?
If this is correct, then the dealer knew full well that the finance company had to be paid.
I would contact the police, the finance company & my solicitor immediately. Do you have a copy of a brokerage agreement or was this a "handshake" or verbal agreement.They are feeding you a line. Act tomorrow.!!!!!!!!

+1. Dont wait any longer. if the deal didnt happen today.
Hope it all works out for you. leigh

[tunaticer]

Sounds to me as if someone is trading whilst being insolvent. Get onto the legals as soon as possible and let your credit supplier know all the facts tonight.
I would also be googling the trader both as business and personal to see what history he has got tonight also. The faster you act the more chances are of it being resolved before anything else happens.

[tin can marlin]

I would not contact the dealer again i would put it in the hands of your lawyer in which i would ask for cleared funds within 24 hours. It sounds plain and simple to me fraud fraud and fraud. I would be taking action at sunlight as boat yards are shuting daily and this one does not sound like it has got much longer to go.

[Blackened]

G'day

I had a client about two years ago that had the same thing happen. Only it was on a smaller boat. The dealer is one on the south side and has had 2 competitors close down in the recent past.

They were straight onto the legals, I advise you do the same thing.

Dave

[stevelcqld]

is yours the mustang on boat point that's now sold?

I agree with everyone else I would seek the funds and any extra interest charged by the fin co. I would do this tomorrow with a date / time for this to occur.

Steve

[bobp]

contact Marine Queenland

[Ausfish]

Sounds like a Police matter, ring them straight away and get the ball rolling. Then contact your solicitor.

Nothing wrong with mentioning who it is, as long as you keep to the facts and the truth. No one can take action against you for telling the truth.

[Mindi]

I would not contact the dealer again i would put it in the hands of your lawyer in which i would ask for cleared funds within 24 hours. It sounds plain and simple to me fraud fraud and fraud. I would be taking action at sunlight as boat yards are shuting daily and this one does not sound like it has got much longer to go.

Absolutely...stop screwing around with home grown ideas, dont talk to the finance company, dont talk to the dealer, the police wont give a stuff..... get a lawyer immediately and do what he or she says and nothing else.....it does sound like insolvent trading and you just might possibly get your money before they go under if you do the right thing soon enough....but time is of the essence I suggest. It is probably too late...you needed the lawyer three weeks ago when they still had income to allocate and a lawyer could have improved your position in the queue...but a fast working lawyer now is your only chance I reckon.

[Mindi]

Sounds like a Police matter, ring them straight away and get the ball rolling. Then contact your solicitor.

Nothing wrong with mentioning who it is, as long as you keep to the facts and the truth. No one can take action against you for telling the truth.

Oh yes and for our sake tell us who it is... please.

[captain rednut]

contact Marine Queenland
dont hesitate to contact marine queensland in brisbane as they are the govening body to protect the boat owners from rogue traders. good luck jim

[jayvee]

this is unbelievable. i reckon the guy that bought your boat would be furious aswell that the finance hasnt been paid out. could it not be a possibility that he also would loose the boat to whoever the financier is if the boat yard goes belly up before the finance is paid out???

[Mindi]

this is unbelievable. i reckon the guy that bought your boat would be furious aswell that the finance hasnt been paid out. could it not be a possibility that he also would loose the boat to whoever the financier is if the boat yard goes belly up before the finance is paid out???

very possible...

[White Pointer]

G'day,

You must serve a letter of demand on the business immediately - like yesterday - and to do this so it works in Court you need a lawyer. You must give them a reasonable period to respond or you go to Court and have them placed in Receivership. Seven days is heaps.

As soon as you have got that done go to the Magistrates Court in George Street in the city and ask to speak to an officer from Fair Trading. They can be powerful advocates for you because they can initiate prosecutions instantly. They can also access the REVS register for BMT and record a defect in title - but your financier may be ahead of them. Be prepared to waste a day there.

Publish the name and registration of the boat, HIN and engine number of the boat and registration and VIN of the trailer here on AUSFISH along with the name of the dealer in the terms advised by AUSFISH.

Good luck,

White Pointer

[siegfried]

This is simple theft nothing more ,nothing less. I cannot see why this mob shouldnt be named, forums like this are a great info scource if used honestly and responsibly .I cannot believe for one minute this was an accidental misplacing of funds, it isnt a 3m tinny for f%^$* sake. Best of luck mate

[Dicko]

this is unbelievable. i reckon the guy that bought your boat would be furious aswell that the finance hasnt been paid out. could it not be a possibility that he also would loose the boat to whoever the financier is if the boat yard goes belly up before the finance is paid out???

The finance company doesn't need to wait till when/if the yard goes belly up. The boat is still encumbered to them.

The new purchaser probably has/should have a letter from the dealer showing it has a clear title. Which is likely fraudulent.

The yard should (rightfully) end up in a big pile of poo.

[eureka]

mate the first thing you have to do is contact your states police CIB ask for the fraud squad and report this as a criminal matter don't worry with your local station as it could waste precious time you should get from the police a incedent report then contact your finance company and inform them and fax the police report then go get a solicitor.
had a similar thing happen to me but with a car fraud squad was my first call hope thing work out
matt

[Tangles]

Police with all documents, contracts/ cheques/bank records/tfr papers etc
Finance Company asap
Lawyer
etc


Following on from Dicko, the ownership cant be transferred to the new buyer until released by FInance Company, ie usually 5-10 days after funds are deposited in their account and cleared they issue a release form etc. They wont release it so no transfer and no doubt the dealer knows this as well, took a chance and juggled the funds and it has caught up with them.

you have a duty to inform your finance company, insurance company etc. Your finance company will no doubt act as well.

Also prompt action is required by you to inform interested parties, ie your finance company!! how long has passed? (3 weeks is a long time especially after the you knew and gave them another week in good faith... have you diary records? if not write some notes with times and notes on the conversations!) has the new buyer taken possession yet so its not at the yard?

Have you kept your insurance on the boat still, still maintain it!

Also if company goes into administration their encumbrance will rank ok, the administrator will deal with that issue and you will be Im afraid a spectator on the sideline until all the dust settles along with the new purchaser who has paid over the money and wont get clear title.

you can also inform the transport Department as well regarding a potential issue regarding the transfer but no doubt your finance company will act on that one as well,

Only query I have is why didnt get the cheque payable to you less commission etc so you could take care of the payout? ,

Good luck and act.

[cormorant]

Do as mindi says - doorstop your soliciter 9am with all documents and diary of dates and calls etc.

Don't leave till he has a plan and has explained it to you. There is specific rules in regards to trust accounts and key info will be who changed account numbers on deposit.

I was going to joke and say Mick Gatto but this is far too serious.

Don't piss around with this as $ spent early and immediate action will save you possibly the whole lot.

I am sorry to hear that you are involved with such a company. The only party that can access money from their trading account are parties that have taken action or the bank. Neither are a good sign.


Oh yeah - until you get sorted be selfish and don't mention any names - it's for your own good. When sorted tip ausfishers off next in case anyone has involvement with them.

[Mr__Bean]

Beeracudda,

Whilst there is no shortage of advice can I stop for a minute to thank you for posting about your situation.

These things are never easy to admit have happened to you, your posting here hopefully prevents a further occurrrence of what looks very much to be a shady situation.

Hope all ends up OK.

- Darren

[Moonlighter]

Do all the above, and fast.

Marine Qld contact number is 3390 4657. Have all your details and paperwork ready to provide copies to them if necessary.

ML

[cormorant]

Where is the boat? No names just dealer , yard, broker, new owner or your mooring.

Who is in posession of it?

Ensure it is still fully insured as insurance companies and finance companies have all the tools and resources to get posession if something bad happens.

[Beeracudda]

Thank you to all that have posted this is a great forum that clearly cares.:)

I have been in contact with my finance company for about 2 weeks now to inform them of the sale and daily checking of balances. The resaon cheques weren't made out to me in the first place was dealing with such a large dealer as Mustang Marine I assumed I was safe in dealing with a known brand and I thought it couldn’t happen twice!! :-/

An update from yesterday's post was we finally got through to management only after threatening to go to the police if he didn't get on the phone, and as a result made 1/2 payment yesterday and said they would make 1/2 tomorrow.

So we then informed our finance company and we did ask the what if's and if the vessel doesn't get paid for in full it will be repossessed as title is still with the finance company and with extensive notes on the file that we have sold the vessel in good faith the person that stands to loose most would be the new buyer! I did want to contact him but the finance company said it was there responsibility.

There yard is now very bare and who I thought was the dealer princible has now left the company? Lets hope for the marine industry that we don't have another headline oh yeh and my sake!!

[choppa]

good to see that some action has been undertaken mate,,,, i hadn't seen this post til now,,,, and most of the replies are spot on,,,,

your finance company on all occassions are the first place of call in these matters,,,, a number of reasons,,,, they own the asset,,,, it is their right to ensure their asset is protected via all reasonable means,,, and they have the push and $$ to protect their asset.

this simply means that if found to be fraud,,, their legal department will in turn take action first againt the dealer if all paperwork you hold is in place.

your credit rating is also protected throughout this process,,, abiding by any agreement made between yourself and them,,,

once they have the first bite,,, police action is normally warranted and instigated at their cost once more

this happens (believe it or not) quite commonly in the motor trade,,, most of the time its with personal sales and not as much through dealerships,,, but when you have people that are in need,,,, silly and stupid things occur

keep in mind,,,, if the payment made was not of a direct transfer process,,,, clearance of funds can also leave you in the grey matter until this happens

hope all goes well,,,, there is a solicitor in morayfield that i know who deals in this precise matter,,, if anybody within has a similar experience,,, let me know and i'll pass on details,,,,

choppa

[revs57]

All the best with it Beer, hope it works out for you

[BM]

Hang in there mate.

[Heath]

Having to make half payments sounds like they are well & truely up the creek!
Keep on them & hope it all turns out ok for you.

[Jeremy]

IMHO, you should report this to police regardless of how it turns out for you. They have committed fraud, and it should be reported.

Jeremy

[cormorant]

good to see that some action has been undertaken mate,,,, i hadn't seen this post til now,,,, and most of the replies are spot on,,,,

your finance company on all occassions are the first place of call in these matters,,,, a number of reasons,,,, they own the asset,,,, it is their right to ensure their asset is protected via all reasonable means,,, and they have the push and $$ to protect their asset.

this simply means that if found to be fraud,,, their legal department will in turn take action first againt the dealer if all paperwork you hold is in place.

your credit rating is also protected throughout this process,,, abiding by any agreement made between yourself and them,,,

once they have the first bite,,, police action is normally warranted and instigated at their cost once more

this happens (believe it or not) quite commonly in the motor trade,,, most of the time its with personal sales and not as much through dealerships,,, but when you have people that are in need,,,, silly and stupid things occur

keep in mind,,,, if the payment made was not of a direct transfer process,,,, clearance of funds can also leave you in the grey matter until this happens

hope all goes well,,,, there is a solicitor in morayfield that i know who deals in this precise matter,,, if anybody within has a similar experience,,, let me know and i'll pass on details,,,,

choppa


Choppa is so right in getting a soliciter who does this regualrly and knows it inside out. The speed at which the good guys act is good and they know when to pull the trigger and have all the ducks lined up from the start


If the half money clears you have done well and hope the rest is forthcoming. Glad the finance company is aware but beware they are doing it for their own interest andlets say they only are owed 20k and you are still owed 20 afterwards they don't care. Get your money next off the dealer and if worst come s to worst you can still pay out finance or finance can recover boat.

Keep a record of what finance compant says to you as when it turns to crap the notes on your account may not cover all that is said and their recordings are unreliable ( for training purpose) and they have little obligation to keep them for many years a court case could take.

Hope it all works out

[PinHead]

a good lesson on this one...NEVER sell your boat through a dealer..sell it yourself...cheaper and easier

[Getout]

Did the Finance company know the boat was for sale in a boat yard? If so, wouldn't you think that they would have kept an eye on proceedings. since it was partially owned by them?

[boatboy50]

Pinhead,

Please don't use this to generalise and put fear into the world.

Just like every industry (yours too im sure), there is some sharks out there, but there is also plenty of good ones. Maybe no-one should buy an air conditioner from any air con company, and they should only buy one from Harvey Norman, pay cash and carry and fit it themselves. Maybe that's the answer.

I have been in the marine industry for many years (not currently retail), and I have seen some very dodgy people, But I have also seen plenty of genuine guys like GM and BM just trying to make a living and have people enjoy the wonderful world of boating and fishing.

Posts like yours are useless, not backed up by any fact or finer detail, just say something because you want too. No need to have any fact or truth behind a post nowadays.

Back to topic, good luck and get it sorted out now, whichever way you need to go.

Regards

Darren

[Mindi]

Pinhead,

Please don't use this to generalise and put fear into the world.

Just like every industry (yours too im sure), there is some sharks out there, but there is also plenty of good ones. Maybe no-one should buy an air conditioner from any air con company, and they should only buy one from Harvey Norman, pay cash and carry and fit it themselves. Maybe that's the answer.

I have been in the marine industry for many years (not currently retail), and I have seen some very dodgy people, But I have also seen plenty of genuine guys like GM and BM just trying to make a living and have people enjoy the wonderful world of boating and fishing.

Posts like yours are useless, not backed up by any fact or finer detail, just say something because you want too. No need to have any fact or truth behind a post nowadays.

Back to topic, good luck and get it sorted out now, whichever way you need to go.

Regards

Darren

Yeah Darren its fair enough you object to Pinhead's generalisation, I probably would too if I was an honest player in the marine industry. The problem is that knowing that 50% or 70% or 90% of the dealers are honest is completely useless information to the customer unless he knows about the dealer he is talking to. Faced with that ..the customer either rolls the dice with thousands of his dollars and hopes his dealer is one of the honest ones...or sells and buys privately. In the end the marine industry will be the ones who suffer and they are the ones who have to get proper processes in place to protect the customer if they want to be taken seriously.

[boatboy50]

Yeah Darren its fair enough you object to Pinhead's generalisation, I probably would too if I was an honest player in the marine industry. The problem is that knowing that 50% or 70% or 90% of the dealers are honest is completely useless information to the customer unless he knows about the dealer he is talking to. Faced with that ..the customer either rolls the dice with thousands of his dollars and hopes his dealer is one of the honest ones...or sells and buys privately. In the end the marine industry will be the ones who suffer and they are the ones who have to get proper processes in place to protect the customer.

Mindi,

That's exactly why I objected.

Just like everything in this world, the buyer needs to research his/her product and also the seller.

In this case, all the research in the world still would have led someone to trust this company.

There is no instant fix.

I will guarantee buying and selling privately will get you into trouble a lot quicker than doing it through a dealer, accredited or not.

Regards

Darren

[tigermullet]

The problem is that it takes a long time to build up trust again - sometimes it just doesn't come back.

42 years ago I ran into a problem with a car dealer (new car no less) and vowed never to get involved with dealers again. Never have and, since then, have always bought cars and boats on the used market without one single problem.

That's not to say that there are not honest dealers out there. I am sure that they exist but they will never get my business - and all because of one bad experience.

I don't know what the answer is but some form of protection must be put in place for the clients.

[darkside]

So, it's only a matter of days before we read the next "New Thread" about the guy who bought his new mustang and had the finance company repossess his new boat, so the lesson to everyone is when selling or buying a boat we have to be so aware of who owns it and what finance agreements are in place, and this would be so much easier said than done.

I must admit , buying or selling through a large dealer like that , i would'nt have given it a 2nd thought, i hope it all works out in the wash. Best of luck for a good outcome to all involved.

[Stuart]

Boatboy50

In many ways I do agree with Pinhead. I can do all the research in the world on a boat dealer or dealers but tell me this, how do I know if he will do me out of my hard earned overnight? I don’t trust anyone, its simple. I don’t trust anyone in this industry or any other industry for that matter. My trust is so low I built my own boat and fitted it out myself so I would be assured I would get my boat. The whole fisher boat debacle has put the wind up so many people they will hesitate in buying a new boat or motor and may opt for a second hand outfits. In reality’ there maybe many good and trustworthy dealers around but I’m not going to find out the hard way. If I buy a new outboard I will pay in cash on delivery and that’s it, don’t like then I will go else were. My electronics for the boat was only paid for on delivery of the goods even though they asked me to pay a deposit.

Stu

[akman1]

No offence but if life was your way stu then surely this would never happen,
re:CHIMO'S joke;;
Does this make sense?

It is August. In a small town on the South Coast of France the holiday season is in full swing, but it is raining so there is not too much business happening.

Everyone is heavily in debt.

Luckily, a rich Aussie PM arrives in the foyer of the small local hotel. He asks for a room and puts a €100 note on the reception counter, because he's a fussy sod he takes a key and goes to inspect the room located up the stairs on the third floor.

The hotel owner takes the banknote in a hurry and rushes to his meat supplier to whom he owes €100

The butcher takes the money and races to his supplier to pay his debt.

The wholesaler rushes to the farmer to pay €100 for pigs he purchased some time ago.

The farmer triumphantly gives the €100 note to a local prostitute who gave him her services on credit.

The prostitute goes quickly to the hotel, as she owed the hotel for her hourly room use to entertain clients.

At that moment, the rich Aussie PM is coming down to reception. He informs the hotel owner that the proposed room is unsatisfactory. He takes back his €100 and departs

There was no profit or income. But everyone no longer has any debt and the small townspeople look optimistically towards their future

[PinHead]

Pinhead,

Please don't use this to generalise and put fear into the world.

Just like every industry (yours too im sure), there is some sharks out there, but there is also plenty of good ones. Maybe no-one should buy an air conditioner from any air con company, and they should only buy one from Harvey Norman, pay cash and carry and fit it themselves. Fact 1: install it themselves and get caught and be liable ofr a fine of $20000. Maybe that's the answer.

I have been in the marine industry for many years (not currently retail), and I have seen some very dodgy people, But I have also seen plenty of genuine guys like GM and BM just trying to make a living and have people enjoy the wonderful world of boating and fishing.

Posts like yours are useless, not backed up by any fact or finer detail, just say something because you want too. No need to have any fact or truth behind a post nowadays.

Fact 2: When I was selling my boat I asked nearly every dealer/consignor around..they all wanted a minimum of 8% + GST. I was not going to pay anyone over 15k to sell my boat.

Fact 3: I spent $120 and advertised it on boatpoint..guy emails me from Vic..flys up the following weekend...buys the boat. Money transferred to my account prior to boat going on truck.

Back to topic, good luck and get it sorted out now, whichever way you need to go.

Regards

Darren

So perhaps Darren, I do know a little about what I am talking about.
The moral is..spend $120 and do the deal yourself...saves a lot of heartache.

Put fear into the world..nope..just letting people know how much these people want to sell a boat...and what do most of them do?? advertise it on boatpoint.

You can apologise anytime you are ready for your useless post based on not knowing any of the facts.

[boatboy50]

So perhaps Darren, I do know a little about what I am talking about.
The moral is..spend $120 and do the deal yourself...saves a lot of heartache.

Put fear into the world..nope..just letting people know how much these people want to sell a boat...and what do most of them do?? advertise it on boatpoint.

You can apologise anytime you are ready for your useless post based on not knowing any of the facts.

PH,

With all due respect, I too have been a member of this board and read your experiences of selling your boat and buying your Swirl. We know how much you hate certain dealers, and love Cunningham's Marine Yadda Yadda Yadda. I'd love to see how much success you had selling that boat for that money in this economic climate. I can guarantee it is not all peaches and cream. You bought at a time people were fighting to buy things at asking price, just like the real estate game. No apology needed.

The good ones advertise on BP (it's not the be all and end all), and quite a few other sites, magazines, financiers, prospect lists, prior customers ect ect.

Again, you use the word most. I seriously doubt that most are shonky dealers. Most are just like you and everyone here, just trying to enjoy the boating environment, and earn a crust at the same time.

I have no need or want to battle this out with you. It's just not as plain and simple as you put it. You sold a boat once? Good for you.

That's all I have to say on this post.

Now, back to the topic.

Regards

Darren

[Fish_gutz]

crikeys akman how does the PM get his 100 euro back if it`s gone to the meat supplier?
on a lighter note , I was so close to getting a fischer and so glad I got a used riptide instead..... not getting away from what this thread is all about but private sales would be the safest imho way to go..... I really hope a happy ending is very close for old mate and I don`t mean one of them happy endings!! oh well I hope he gets one of them too!
Andrew

[PinHead]

Darren..please tell me which dealer I "hate"..I don't hate anyone..that is a useless waste of time.
You are right..I have sold a boat once..and so has Beeracuda and look at the dilemma the poor bloke is in now.
My post was to highlight the fact that it is quite often a lot easier to do these deals yourself..and a lot less stressful than he is in now..the bloke could easily have his credit rating ruined from this...plus be out of a pocket a lot of money if his finance company gets nasty.

I can only wish him well and hope a resolution is found very soon.

[boatboy50]

Darren..please tell me which dealer I "hate"..I don't hate anyone..that is a useless waste of time.
You are right..I have sold a boat once..and so has Beeracuda and look at the dilemma the poor bloke is in now.
My post was to highlight the fact that it is quite often a lot easier to do these deals yourself..and a lot less stressful than he is in now..the bloke could easily have his credit rating ruined from this...plus be out of a pocket a lot of money if his finance company gets nasty.

I can only wish him well and hope a resolution is found very soon.

PH,

No daggers here. Everytime a post came up about Crownline Boats or Satisfaction Marine, you would mention how you went there and were treated as though you had no money. That's fine. That's your experience. Not everyone shopping there had that experience, just like not everyone has as much luck selling their boat alone as you did.

The attacking tone to your original post is what got me upset. It was very abrupt.

There are many stories of a buyer paying 50k for a boat privately, only to have it removed by the police and returned to the owner it was stolen from. They are then out of pocket. I have sold hundreds of boats over time, and even had a seller trying to sell his stolen boat through my yard. Police were notified, and the boat was returned to the insurance company. The owner/seller was nabbed. It could easily have been sold out of his back yard, with him laughing all the way to the bank on a fake ID.

Not all dealers/people in the marine industry are nasty, and not everyone has success in selling their own boat, or the knowledge to sell their boat/buy their boat through a private sale. That's all it comes down to.

Good luck to Beer. I wish him well, and would like to hear of the resolution asap.

[tin can marlin]

Darren..please tell me which dealer I "hate"..I don't hate anyone..that is a useless waste of time.
You are right..I have sold a boat once..and so has Beeracuda and look at the dilemma the poor bloke is in now.
My post was to highlight the fact that it is quite often a lot easier to do these deals yourself..and a lot less stressful than he is in now..the bloke could easily have his credit rating ruined from this...plus be out of a pocket a lot of money if his finance company gets nasty.

I can only wish him well and hope a resolution is found very soon.
I think pinhead was making a good point he may of said it the wrong way. The point he was makeing is if you sell it yourself you can cut out all the drama of different issues happening like the one we are looking out on this thread. But sometimes on the other side of the coin you can't say every boat dealer is a dud as not all of them are and the one mentioned earlyer cunninghams is a prime example of a very good business that has grown a nice steady pace over a 20 year period. If they did the wrong thing they would have been long ago. Each to there own when sellig your boat but at the moment maybr before selling with a dealer you have to ask some questions relating to there abilty to get the job done and also there trading ethics and ausfish is a great place to look as it is a place that will find people out if they are not trading correctly. And as a member of the boating public i say keep up the good work.

[White Pointer]

Thank you to all that have posted this is a great forum that clearly cares.:)

I have been in contact with my finance company for about 2 weeks now to inform them of the sale and daily checking of balances. The resaon cheques weren't made out to me in the first place was dealing with such a large dealer as Mustang Marine I assumed I was safe in dealing with a known brand and I thought it couldn’t happen twice!! :-/

An update from yesterday's post was we finally got through to management only after threatening to go to the police if he didn't get on the phone, and as a result made 1/2 payment yesterday and said they would make 1/2 tomorrow.

So we then informed our finance company and we did ask the what if's and if the vessel doesn't get paid for in full it will be repossessed as title is still with the finance company and with extensive notes on the file that we have sold the vessel in good faith the person that stands to loose most would be the new buyer! I did want to contact him but the finance company said it was there responsibility.

There yard is now very bare and who I thought was the dealer princible has now left the company? Lets hope for the marine industry that we don't have another headline oh yeh and my sake!!

G'day,

I hope this works out for you and you can resume normal sleep and a life without valium. Given the behaviour towards you, you may not be the only one. You may have been the only one to act swiftly.

I request that you ask (in writing - marked URGENT) for the Office of Fair Trading to investigate the dealer, the legality of their consignment agreements and second-hand trading. On the basis of your experience the dealer principal should be barred from holding a trading license. Your letter, recounting your experience, may help to strengthen the law and prevent this from happening in future.

Regards,

White Pointer

[PinHead]

PH,

No daggers here. Everytime a post came up about Crownline Boats or Satisfaction Marine, you would mention how you went there and were treated as though you had no money. That's fine. That's your experience. Not everyone shopping there had that experience, just like not everyone has as much luck selling their boat alone as you did.

The attacking tone to your original post is what got me upset. It was very abrupt.

There are many stories of a buyer paying 50k for a boat privately, only to have it removed by the police and returned to the owner it was stolen from. They are then out of pocket. I have sold hundreds of boats over time, and even had a seller trying to sell his stolen boat through my yard. Police were notified, and the boat was returned to the insurance company. The owner/seller was nabbed. It could easily have been sold out of his back yard, with him laughing all the way to the bank on a fake ID.

Not all dealers/people in the marine industry are nasty, and not everyone has success in selling their own boat, or the knowledge to sell their boat/buy their boat through a private sale. That's all it comes down to.

Good luck to Beer. I wish him well, and would like to hear of the resolution asap.

Darren..i have never been to Satisfaction Marine..it was actually the Four Winns dealer that told me I could not afford the 30' boat..Boatarama I think they were called ..the ones that I think went bust...and there were a few people treated like that there.

[siegfried]

JUDGE TO PROSTITUTE: At what point did you realise you had been raped.
PROSTITUTE TO JUDGE: After the cheque bounced
moral..beware whores and boat dealers

[Mindi]

It is worthwhile to avoid becoming too cynical. The problem is not that most dealers are dishonest, the problem is that we have no way of identifying the small minority who are dishonest. Bashing the good ones doesnt help us buyers except to the extent they might improve the industry. I am on my 14th boat as my wife will tell anyone she meets and have sold 13 privately and without any drama and have bought most of them second hand as well..so maybe I have been lucky.
The only problem here is that when you walk into a yard you have no way of knowing whether your money will be safe or not. Reputation is something, but its easy to build a good reputation in good times....the test of business integrity is what you do with people's money in tough times like now.
Reputable and long standing marine businesses need to deal with this because they are going to increasingly suffer loss of business with the reduction in customer confidence..(eg...I am going to Bribie this morning to look at a boat from BP which could be no. 15.)

[bennyboy]

It's very upsetting to hear that someone is out of pocket and haven't been paid for the boat that they sold. What about the poor bloke who paid someone for a boat that they don't own. The finance company does!

INSIST on a REV's check on a 2nd hand boat

For the educated and experienced people on here buying and selling can be relativley trouble free on the private market.

I have lost count of the number of poor blokes who have saved for the last 5 years to buy a boat, finally talked the missus into it. Paid $20K for what they thought was their dream boat. Bring it in for a service and find out the motor or trailer or hull is cactus and need to spend $10K which they don't have to get it running. The look of heartbreak on their face and the look of dread at what they are going to tell the missus.

Consigning through a reputable dealer is done on a standard marine industry contract which is a legal document. The dealer is required to offer a warranty and the seller and buyer has avenues for action if it goes pear shaped.
YOU SELL IT PRIVATLEY AND SH*T HITS THE FAN GOOD LUCK GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK

[bennyboy]

JUDGE TO PROSTITUTE: At what point did you realise you had been raped.
PROSTITUTE TO JUDGE: After the cheque bounced
moral..beware whores and boat dealers

Beware of ignorant people who make off the cuff comments

[BM]

a good lesson on this one...NEVER sell your boat through a dealer..sell it yourself...cheaper and easier

I suppose whatever line of work your in Pinhead we should suggest never buy from that trade as one person had a bad dealing so therefore by definition the entire trade is crook??

Thats just a tad over the top with tarring all with the same brush don't you think?

As mentioned, some have great dealings with some dealers and others have woeful dealings. Some of the dealers I know of I can't understand how they are still in business as they are seriously crooked. But every industry has them.

This blokes dealt with from what I understand a large dealer of that brand of boat. 20:20 hindsight is a fantastic tool for kicking ourselves in the arse but he believed he did the right thing, in terms of decent size dealer, known brand dealer etc Just shows that sometimes no matter how hard you try you can't pick em and you wind up in an unfortunate situation.

cheers

[finga]

I have read this and thought..you poor bugger.
You've tried to do the right thing and asked about trust accounts etc so your money is secure.
The buyer has done the right thing and brought through a dealer so the ownership is guaranteed and because of a dodgy dealer the trust account disappears and the ownership is not guaranteed.

Gees I hope it all works out for both the seller and the buyer because both could loose here.
Looks like the dealer is going down though.

At least I have not got the hassle of trying to sell a boat. I just keep them. Saves the hassles :)
4 of them lying about ATM. :)

[sea-rash]

crikeys akman how does the PM get his 100 euro back if it`s gone to the meat supplier?
on a lighter note , I was so close to getting a fischer and so glad I got a used riptide instead..... not getting away from what this thread is all about but private sales would be the safest imho way to go..... I really hope a happy ending is very close for old mate and I don`t mean one of them happy endings!! oh well I hope he gets one of them too!
Andrew


Andrew if it was our PM he would have either yelled at somebody or been to drunk to remember anyway!:(

Rash

[Beeracudda]

Just got off the phone from the Finance Company, 1/2 the money has been confirmed as deposited. So 1/2 way there.

Just a few comments on other comments in this thread, I used the word dealer as yes they are a dealer but they are also the 2nd largest manufacturer of boats in Australia or they were once with Riviera No 1. I think Mimdi somes it up well in saying it's how your treated in the bad times not the good times, and I believe there sales arm were of good intention and didn't go out to rip me off I think they just got caught short and made bad judgements.

I have also seen the boat is still in there marina?? new Buyer hasn't picked it up yet, but 4 weeks ago on the Friday the sales guy said that was delivery day!

Plenty of unanswered questions but I do see the light at the end of the tunnel, let's hope it not the train ;D

[bennyboy]

Wasn't Mustang placed in recievership in October 2007?

As when dealing with any company do your research, a company that was placed in recievership less than 2 years ago selling items that are amongst the hardest hit in the current economic conditions.......

[Beeracudda]

No, very close...they were bailed out by a big South African Bank...

[PinHead]

I suppose whatever line of work your in Pinhead we should suggest never buy from that trade as one person had a bad dealing so therefore by definition the entire trade is crook??

Thats just a tad over the top with tarring all with the same brush don't you think?

As mentioned, some have great dealings with some dealers and others have woeful dealings. Some of the dealers I know of I can't understand how they are still in business as they are seriously crooked. But every industry has them.

This blokes dealt with from what I understand a large dealer of that brand of boat. 20:20 hindsight is a fantastic tool for kicking ourselves in the arse but he believed he did the right thing, in terms of decent size dealer, known brand dealer etc Just shows that sometimes no matter how hard you try you can't pick em and you wind up in an unfortunate situation.

cheers

here is another one..obviously trying to protect your business and who wouldn't..BUT...I do not deal in 2nd hand goods..a bit of a difference don't you think. My industry is very heavily regulated and just about need a license to blink so it is totally different to the 2nd hand boat market.

[BM]

No its not different. Tarring an industry with a giant brush due to dealings with 1 representative of that industry is the same regardless of the industry. Its the 'sweeping statement' that I am refering to, rather than the industry.But this industry is full of shysters thats for sure. Thats probably because it is an unregulated industry. Needs some formal regulation to bring it into line. The car trade got cleaned up and many shonks just entered the boat trade coz all the dodgy practices could still be gotten away with.But the industry is too small to matter unfortunately and as such time, effort and dollars spent on regulation would probably be seen by governement as a waste of time.Cheers

[PinHead]

cripes you blokes read a lot into something that is not written..I said "
A good lesson on this one...NEVER sell your boat through a dealer..sell it yourself...cheaper and easier"

where did I tar any industry with a giant brush...I made the comment that it can be easier and cheaper to sell a boat yourself...so should I have paid a broker over 15k to sell the boat or pay $120 to sell the boat privately????
Based on that I would never use a dealer/broker...I did not say anyone was shonky ..based on a cost perspective and control over the sale, you can control it better yourself.

[Lovey80]

Beeracuda, if I were you i'd walk in there and pad lock that boat untill all monies are paid.

Cheers

Chris

[akman1]

I'm just glad that you are finally able to get a bit closer to finalising your assets,will stay out of the legal stuff.Best of luck with the rest of it..........

[BOMBIE]

No its not different. Tarring an industry with a giant brush due to dealings with 1 representative of that industry is the same regardless of the industry. Its the 'sweeping statement' that I am refering to, rather than the industry.But this industry is full of shysters thats for sure. Thats probably because it is an unregulated industry. Needs some formal regulation to bring it into line. The car trade got cleaned up and many shonks just entered the boat trade coz all the dodgy practices could still be gotten away with.But the industry is too small to matter unfortunately and as such time, effort and dollars spent on regulation would probably be seen by governement as a waste of time.CheersYep been there got done .The small boat industry DONT care and are not made to care due to lack of rules & legisation and they know it ,but if we keep putting in front of the polly's then one day things might change :'(

[BM]

And I would love it BOMBIE. It would please me no end to see the crooks in my trade run out of town. I seriously wonder how some of these pr!cks can sleep at night......

cheers

[platinummarine]

Hi there, Sorry to hear of your problem. You can take it up with the office of fair trading or they may be a member of Marine Queensland which will also investigate.
The company has committed fraud and should payment not be forthcoming a call to the police would be recommended.


Dave

[cormorant]

Guess they didn't go as low as boat brokers. Wonder where real estate agents ranked?

Shame the industry organisations don't have a bigger stick and get some of the crappy blokes out and they aren't all in the little yards or small businesses. Misuse of trust funds - what are they going to do? Toothless Shame for the god blokes in the industry.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25623342-5001028,00.html

[Beeracudda]

Hi Guy's Thanks for all the comments and advise.

Well it's all done, to Mustang marine's credit they paid me and my finance company all be it very late and in parts with us yelling and screaming.

I would watch this space! If you are that big it shouldn't take weeks to come up with that sort of money. :) :D ;D

[mylestom]

Well some good news at last. Congratulations on your sustained effort to get what was rightfully yours.

Regards

Trev

[lee8sec]

+1, glad its all settled. Leigh


Well some good news at last. Congratulations on your sustained effort to get what was rightfully yours.

Regards

Trev

[AnthonyL]

Glad to hear you got it sorted out... I got ripped off by a local boatyard and they just opened up again under another name.

I will be very very careful with my new boat purchase and your situation is another thing to look out for.. thanks.

[White Pointer]

G'day,

I'm sure you are very relieved and I'm sure your persistance had a lot to do with it. Well done.

The real solution to this problem is dealer licensing of the marine industry and application of the Property Agents and Motor Dealers Act to boat trading. It shifts the emphasis to the seller or dealer for compliance and title.

Would AUSFISH like to start a poll or petition, perhaps?

Regards,

White Pointer

[black runner]

Good to see you have this issue sorted. Makes you even think twice about selling your boat on consignment at a dealer/yard.

Would really need to do research into yard integrity and have a rock solid contract I suppose. Is there a standard sell on consignment contract/agreement that protects the registered owner?

[cormorant]

Congratulations I reckon you should go buy that lottery ticket and see if your luck holds out. Maybe you could buy back QLD for us all.

Pretty impressed at the way you posted and kept it all calm but informative. Hopefully it will help anyone thinking of consigning a boat to really look into it as there are risks.

What part of yelling and screaming actually made them come good and approx how much $ were we talking??


Anthony L Please tell us how you were ripped off- ya don't have to say the names just tell us how. The more people that find out about dodgy dealers methods the safer we all are.


White Pointer - The industry bodied in Marine are toothless and until they change bodgy blokes will stay in it and tarnish the good guys. As a customer it is very hard to tell as the honest good guys can still go belly up. Pretty good to hear a good news story with this one but I fear the only reason for a sucessful recovery of money was because there was finance on the boat and that the "messing with a trust account" carries severe penalties and has specific rules that possibly make parties personably responsible. Can't hide behind company protection. You would hope someone official now gets notified ( unless a release had to be sighned to prevent further action) so the books of the company get checked out to save others . Who should be notified in this case? A responsible finance Company should have to report this not just get their money and run.??

[BM]

Well done mate. Good outcome. Now you can go back to sleeping well at night!

Cheers

[Beeracudda]

What part of yelling and screaming actually made them come good and approx how much $ were we talking??


Constant daily phone calls and not hanging up when they said leave a message and they will ring back, as that wouldn't happen. But It all started to move when the word Police was used. We let them know this is serious and needs to be addressed ASAP, the total amount was around the 100k mark better than half was to go to the finance company.

Now for my next boat....;D

[cormorant]

Jesus I think you got lucky. Be nice to be compensated for the grief but I think having the capital back is a great result. Interesting to see what happens to these guys and glad they eventually sorted you out. There is no excuse for what happened and be interesting if you see the boat on the water how they treated the buyer - bet he has a story and a half as well.

Well what can I say about your new boat other than make sure it has clear title and not a cent till it is on you towball after a full shakedown run!!!!!