Thoughts on Size and weights of fish.

[rando]

There is a fair bit of debate going on regarding the accuracy or otherwise of stated fish sizes.
There are at least two schools of thought I can think of here.
On the one hand there are the competitive fishers/club members who insist on a verifiable statement of size & weight, because that is the environment they fish in.

Another school of thought is that of the purely recreational fisher who's parameters are less strict, ie its the pb for me. or its about...kg.
I would be in this camp

I cant see any benefit in beating -up on a person because he is on a different side of the divide to you.

In my holiday van there is a little plaque left by a previous owner that says.



Behold the Fisherman
Early is his rising & mighty are his preparations
that all do know his leave.
Late he returneth with spirit about him
And the truth is not in him


;);D8-)
Kind of says it all for me.

rando

[deepfried]

Hey rando,
Know where this is coming from. I do keep track of some of my PBs but only for a bench mark for me to hopefully beat another time. Not for bragging rights as i know some one has always caught bigger, there for my own satisfaction. Some are roughies and estimates, some are are on digital scales. From now on if i posted in the reports a weight i would make sure it is accurate ( definately would now ) or state an estimate. May even provide video footage with an independant auditors report stating location of catch, line class, bait or lure, time of day or night etc etc. Nah just taking the pi$$. I am more in the recfisho camp i guess.
My gripe is when the beating up continues into other threads and it effects others enjoyment of this site.

[Jeremy]

good on ya for opening up a new thread here so as not to hijack the other thread.

I will just repeat some of my thoughts on this.

If you are going to make a claim that a fish is a given weight or length, in a public forum, you had better be accurate. Not very difficult to do. I have had a few pairs of digital scales in the last few years and all have been remarkably accurate. Brag mat is not as accurate as a tape measure, but certainly acceptable. If you cannot get an accurate weight or length, THEN SAY SO. Say that you are giving an estimation.

Yes, there are alot of people who do take these things seriously. I am one of them. I am in an ANSA club where alot of this stuff, including for major trophies, relies on accurate and honest self reporting. Big loss of face if you were ever found out to be cheating. Same goes for club, state and national record claims.

I am guessing alot of other keen anglers would also take weights and/or lengths seriously. Impoundment barra anglers - how would you be claiming a metre barra id it was 85cm? What about the 100cm flathead club (I am not a member)? Things like LBG and quality fish like those snapper off the rocks are well appreciated by others for the effort involved. Exaggeration of the size of the fish leads to a lack of credibility - which may explain why the bad smell continues into other threads.

I know I have repeated some stuff I said earlier, but worthwhile for a seperate thread.

Jeremy

[Scott nthQld]

good on ya for opening up a new thread here so as not to hijack the other thread.



Jeremy

Hypocritical at best Jeremy, well done. I of course refer to your and others persistant hijacking of another members thread, berating him about an irrelevant fish, topic, however you want to put it.

I don't see why everything has to be 100% accurate to apease the minority of members who are in a formal club. Ausfish is not about scores or competitions or tournaments or records, it is simply a public, privately owned, forum where people can come and get advice on fishing, camping, 4wd, boating etc, and share memorable fishing trips with others WITHOUT being under the scrutiny of said formal clubs.

But I suppose this is the reason we have the 'report' button, to report any posts you may find offensive or defamatory etc, and myt favourite, the 'ignore list' of whihc I have subjected a few members to because of their un warranted and unwelcome challenges to my methods, take or otherwise. Not their loss I know, but rather for the benefit of myself as I no longer have to deal with their scrutiny.

Me, most of my weights are estimates, or at most taken from those manual scales, do I care? NO, but I like to think they are reasonably close to the fish's true weight. I don't measure much, unless I think it may be a new benchmark for myself, or if the smaller fish are biting and I am chasing a feed

[Marlin_Mike]

I have 2 things to say:

The size is never long enough and the weight is never heavy enough...............:):):)

[Pistol_P]

My only issue has been that when you mention to someone they are way off with their weights on fish everyone climbs on board and says.......'Oh come on give the bloke a break,this is why people dont post anymore'.....etc etc.....

People (and members I know well) arent posting on here anymore because of all the garbage like dudded up photos and bull **** reports etc....

Why is it that you cant correct someone who is wrong..?

Its an open forum and if someone is dudding up photos or calling fish for 15kg when they are 10etc of course people are gonna say something.

Like I said before it seems the only thing you are allowed to say is ' oh top fish...good on you mate...'

Pete

[disorderly]

Me, most of my weights are estimates,

I know a couple of other local fisho's that use this method...and some of their estimates are laughable....ie 6-8 kg spanish that suddenly grow to 15kg once filleted and freezed..::);D

But whats so hard about weighing if you want to report on weights...?..stick em on a a lie detector and this arguement doesnt even exist..;)..

It takes out any potential BS man...simple..:)

Scott

[jtpython]

I only weigh Prized fish..................... photo's tell the truth
Picture is worth a thousand opions
LOL

[Cammy]

It comes down to personal prefrence, if you dont like it dont post, bloody hell. If you have to post just to say, that the person is wrong and your right, well arent you just the champion.

Pb's and the like, are ones own goals.

If you had a 100cm barra and everyone thought it was only 90cm, who cares, it just matters that you know you got that 100cm barra.

Cam

[disorderly]

Pb's and the like, are ones own goals.

If you had a 100cm barra and everyone thought it was only 90cm, who cares, it just matters that you know you got that 100cm barra.

Cam

Yeah but how hard is it ,even if you dont have brag mat or scales to measure the fish against something ...ie the side of your boat,esky or even a bloody stick so that at least you can verify the size later...

Although I agree it doesnt really matter if its just for your own reference but if you want to "brag" about it then measure the bloody thing..

[PinHead]

I don't need a brag mat nor do I need scales..I cannot catch anything ..BUT..read the reports on here and accept them as they are written..someones account of their trip..does it really matter how accurate it is..if that person enjoyed their fishing then all is good.

[finding_time]

Well i really dont care if people have weights or not and for that matter photo's or not ! If a guy comes on and says he caught a 9 kg yellow sweetlip at the banks , i'll say good on him so what if he doesn't have a photo and so what if he's making the whole story up , who does it really effect? You do see alot of pics that state for example he's my 30kg spaniard when you and everybody else knows it's a 30 lb spaniard but again what does it really matter? Marlin are another fish that gets over estimated by the inexperienced alot, just listen to vhf 21 in summer and listen to all the boat that hook a billy and call it in the 70 to 90 kg range , now more than likely it's half that but hey there happy and excited so what does it really matter!

What does annoy me is when a member says he caught such n such a fish at a location but doesn't have a pic to back it up and gets jumped on by members who basically accuse the member of telling fibs!!!! Without proof these are very very ordinary accusations and whilst you may think them you should not post them, it's very poor form!! Also pictures are hardly proof as a good snap can make a smaller fish big and a poor pic make a big fish seem very small!

ian

[sleepygreg]

I am a member of ANSA (a life member of the one of the largest ANSA clubs in AUS), though that is not my current club,,,different state now,,,and a member of QGFA....in fact I am the secretary of one of the few fishing clubs that is affiliated with both. In fishing competitions for both these disciplines measurements both mass and length are critical and done on approved measuring devices, as well as many other criteria re tackle, line etc. I spend many hours officially scrutinising these things at tournaments, club weigh ins etc. I believe I can reasonably accurately estimate the weight of most fish that are commonly caught.....but thats after over 30 years of putting thousands of fish on the lie detectors and recording their weights (not for me...but for others). There are many others that have done the same as me...or have fished for specific species over a number of years and get pretty damned good at estimating weights and lengths. I have no problems with people insisting on accuracy if its in competition scenarios........but Ausfish is NOT a competition.

I am a member here because I like to read peoples stories about their fishing, maybe learn a few things (am always interested in learning), perhaps add to someones knowledge if I can offer a suggestion or advice from my experience, encourage those that like their fishing, and generally enjoy the normally friendly banter from the members on here.
I dont give a rats rectum if someone has obviously over or understated a length or weight on their fish.....especially if you are judging it from a photo. Nor if someone posts a catch that seems too good to be true, i have seen many 'too good to be true' catches live. I choose to believe or disbelieve, but no point in making an issue of it.
What really pees me off is that some members make a point of targetting someone they decide has posted something they dont like, or dont believe, and try to drive them off the site with their constant negative comments on any post they make....whether relevant to that post or not. And I have seen this happen with more than just one member.

vacating soapbox

Greg

[Jeremy]

Exaggeration of the size of the fish leads to a lack of credibility
Jeremy

I'll say it again, obvious lying, inaccuracies, poor estimates, whatever - lead to a lack of credibility which can stay with you for long after the post has been forgotten. Can be taken two ways - either you are a novice who does not have a good feel for fish sizes and weights by eye, or you are exaggerating deliberately.

I know I am not the only person who feels this way.

Never said anything about ausfish being competitive or having stringent rules either, just saying that is where I come from.

Jeremy

[NAGG]

How many of us are really good at estimating weight or length ....... I know I'm shocking at Weight but pretty good at length.
I don't weigh fish anymore as most fish are released but I do like to use a brag mat which is pretty accurate ....... more so for personal reasons , but it does allow me to say "I caught a 50cm folk bass or 120cm barra" .... & know that the length was correct.
Fish weights are difficult to say the least ....... & unless you have a calibrated quality scale that can weigh low & high weights the readings are often all over the shop - I've thrown away a couple of expensive salter spring scales over the years & more recently a digital balance because they were out of whack.
The other problem with weight (estimating) is the condition of the fish ...... I have recently seen barra come into the boat that while there was only a 2cm difference - one fish could be easily lifted while the other needed two & could barely be held........... I could see an argument occurring if I said one fish was 23kgs & the other was 35kgs
Finally , I guess I know where this topic came from !..... my view is that if you are going to state a weight or length & accompany it with a photo on a public forum - GET IT RIGHT!!!! :scholar: ...... rightly or wrongly others will pick it up & question it:argue: .

Cheers

Chris

[Noelm]

I guess in a sort of a way, it is entirely dependant on the circumstances the fish is caught, or the reason it is being weighed, if (say) it is caught during a tightly ruled comp of some sort, then very acurate weights and lengths are necessary, simply because big cash or prizes can be won or lost on a few grams, similarly, a game comp (say) requires tackle and traces and stuff to also comply to strict rules, but if it is just to tell your mates that you caught a XXX and it was 6KG, then who cares if it was weighed on the Bathroom scales, or just a wild (but educated) guess? get where I am coming from, sometimes it will make a huge difference, sometimes bugger all, one local comp run each year down my way is purely a total length of fish caught (with photos) so most target Flathead and stuff, all fish are released, (but not completely enforced, just incase someone wants a feed as well) but need to be photographed on a measure that is supplied on the day of the comp, so no one knows the colour or description of the measuring device, so cheating is pretty well a non event, and the prizes are pretty lame as well, but it attracts hordes of people to fish it! how simple is that?

[Scott nthQld]

Noel, thats how the last hinchinbrook barra comp was run, a catch and release tournament, with the supplied measuring device on the day, a different colour each day I think it was too. It was a great success, and even though fish were scarce, it greatly promoted that fisho's do care about sustainability and everything else that goes with it.

Scott, I like to think I've become pretty accurate with my guestimates, but always say that they were guessed etc, for example I know a 60cm grunter will be around 3kg on the scale....whole from my experience.

As for losing credibility, I'm not on here to prove anything to anyone, nor am I seeking validation from anyone, no matter how self important they make themselves to be, so I have no credibility to risk by saying I once caught a 30cm whiting that weighed 10kg, not that I would claim as such, but I don't really care and not seeking approval from a bunch of annonymous forum participants, and I doubt many members are.

There is no reason to justify measurements or weights to annonymous persons so I don't see why people get so worked up, I reckon its more jeaousy than anything.

I don't care what ackground somebody has, or claims to have and I don't think anyone else should either. i see no point in people claiming they are this and that of whatever, culture, club, organisation, whatever to claim a bit of online 'cred' from annonymous people, to me, its just like saying "I'm better than you, be intimidated!".

Remember, everyone has a choice on what they do and don't read, if you don't like whats written, dismiss it and move on, people don't join up, and new members don't pay their subscription fees to be berated by self important know it alls. By all means if you doubt someone's claims, ask, but don't constantly harrass them about it, chasing them through other threads to get an answer, I've got one word for people who decide that's worthwhile....pathetic.



PS, I have a feeling that my next report will occur in a few more additions to my ignore list after that rant

[f.t.r.]

men have been exaggerating their size for lifetimes before ours.

my wife doesnt believe me so i shouldnt expect that everyone on here would.

matty

[Teachnthekids]

Matty,

You are 100% correct that is why women are so bad at estimating distance as far years we have been telling them that certain things are 8" (200mm) and clearly not many are!

I guess we carry that philosophy through to our reports - bottom line I dont think too many really care - I for one enjoy the reads!

Rob

[Jeremy]

Time to get off your soap box Scott, you are looking a bit small now

Jeremy

[Stroadman]

That's what I was thinking!

He loves getting on that soapbox, telling it how it it...........his way of course.

Everyone's wrong but Scotty.

He's pretty easy to fire up too..................you just watch;D;D

Heretic.

Oh, I forgot, I don't mind one little bit being on your ignore list Scotto.
Cheers mate.

[Scott nthQld]

So now we've started on the insults boys? Well done, I'm sure that's going to improve your 'cred'

As for the ignore list, I don't really care, its not like either of you ever have anything of note to offer anyway.

And Stoadman, telling it how it is 'my way', well tell me, how else am I meant to tell it? What I've said is no different to what anyone else has, that is it my opinion, and others have said theirs, act remains that Ausfish is NOT a competition and there is no need for everything to be 100% accurate, time and date stamped photo's with affadavits from the pope to say that everything recounted is true and accurate.

Wait a minute, don't bother telling me how I'm supposed to put my opinion across, I just remembered you're on my ignore list (I get awful dizzy on my soapbox, it being so high there's a lack of oxygen and all)

[dogsbody]

Nothing wrong with going fishing then posting about it in your own way. Sometimes the fishing is just as good after you post ;)

Dave

[Jeremy]

So now we've started on the insults boys?
ROFL, you started that several posts back.

Just to be clear, I have NOT hounded anyone about their catches. You really should go back and read the original post about the snapper off the rocks which this goes back to. None of my posts were deleted or defamatory in any way. And as for continuing to harass in other posts, well you've got me beat. Must be imaginary like your friends LOL
Jeremy

[Pistol_P]

I believe I was the one who was acused of Harrassing a member.....

I did two things.....Firstly I said justjack was way off with his weight estimates...
and secondly I suggested it was rediculous to be climbing down cliffs,fishing in 30knot winds,Big swell and 1.5m visability.......(This is what he said he was fishing in).
Now is that really harrassing a member...???....::)

Sorry, but all the rock fisherman I have known will say thats absolute madness to be fishing in......I dont want to read about another rock fishing death.

Pete

[dogsbody]

Pete it may well be dangerous but if we have'nt fished that spot do we really know how dangerous it is. It certainly looks like a hell climb from a far off shot but in the flesh who knows.

Also your description is a little bit more embellished than what was described. It's all good though fisherman have been known to stretch the truth. ;) :)

Dave

[Pistol_P]

Pete it may well be dangerous but if we have'nt fished that spot do we really know how dangerous it is. It certainly looks like a hell climb from a far off shot but in the flesh who knows.

Also your description is a little bit more embellished than what was described. It's all good though fisherman have been known to stretch the truth. ;) :)

Dave

Sorry Dave.....I dont see where the description is a bit more embellished....:-/

Here is the post...:

Mate i take 1 small bag of gear, 20ft of climbing rope and bait i usually dont take anythin i dont need and that often includes a camera those fish are average fish so usually i dont bother with photos only that it was a hot sesh i did its bad enough draggin fish back with me 3km around the worst headland i know of its very dangerous, how do you spose im to set up a tripod while its blowing thirty knots, heres a photo of where i walk on a calm day know imagine big waves, howling wind and min vis, 1.5km along big boulders then 30ft up a cliff face made of shale the less weight the better

ANY rock spot is dangerous in those conditions.

And Dave I even left out this part.......

The photo's are taken from the fishing spot the arrows indicate the walk back to the car, i free climb up and down the rock using my rod as a balance tool ive come to the conclusions to shoes cant compare to bare foot i feel alot safer, i have a big O-ring my dad cemented in the rocks 30 years ago that i tie my rope to and then thats tied to me,



Anyway,mate.....I have said my bit.....I am finished with this topic.
Nothing personal towards Just jack.....Hope you keep posting away.

Pete

[Marlin_Mike]

Jesus sh!te there are better things (or worse) to worry about in this world.

Does anyone really give a f*****g brass razoo if someone embellishes their catches size and weight?

Fair dinkum......................... nothing else to say


Mike

[whatscracken]

Well said Mike, I just enjoy being out on the bay on a nice day having a crack, the fish are a bonus.

[dogsbody]

Sorry Pete I read the first post and must of missed the other bit. Me bad I'll go sit in the naughty corner for 5 mins.

Dave

[Horse]

Measuring under different circumstances can make a considerable difference for example today I scored a nice Snapper. It certainly looked bigger than any I had caught on SP's but when I held the still live and kicking fish against a bulkhead mounted sticker it only looked 76 or 77cms:-/ . I have picked up quite a few around that size ande I was quite suprised as this fish looked much larger than the others. Once home I laid it out properly and ran the tape over it to find it stretched out to 80cm:o :D . Thats quite a variation and it was just down to how accurate the process was

[finding_time]

Horse

80 cm's Nice!!!;) Any pics?:-X :-X :-X :-X :-[

[Horse]

Yes Ian;) . Just waiting for my brother to download from his phone::) . Or then again maybe it was 100cm and unfortunatly I dont have the pics but trust me I'm a fisherman::) ;D

[daveozz]

You Know What.i Cant Believe I Just Read Through 3 Pages Of Bitching.i Read Justjacks Report And Even Comented On It.if The Bloke Wants To Go Fishing In Those Conditions....let Him.i Mean I Dont Want To Read About Fishing Fatalities,but If He's Gonna Do It,then He's Gonna Do It.

And As For His Catch,well If He Says He Caught Fish X That Weighed Y Kilos And Z Long Who Are We To Argue.were We There?..no.

This Is A Social Site Where Fishos Like To Read About Spots,catches And Conditions.if You Dont Like What You Read Or Dibelieve It,well Then Thats Youir Prerogative.you Dont Have To Bag Someone For It.lets Face It We Dont Believe Everything We Read In The Media,so Why Is This Forum Any Different.

Lighten Up Everybody And Enjoy It For What It Is.

Life's Too Damn Short And You're A Long Time Dead.dont Waste It On Berating Others.i Know That These Comments Will Be Construed By Some To Be What I'm Bitching About...but Think About It.


Cheers All

Dont Take Life Too Seriously....you'll Never Get Out Of It Alive.....

Dave

[PNG1M]

I remember in June 2005 my fishing club had our first ever trip to SUKI on the Fly river in PNG. I think there were 7 of us including a couple who'd never cast with a baitcaster before.

Only one bloke had thought to bring a set of scales. He was the manager of a heavy equipment contracting firm for a mining company so he had a mechanical background.

He was in a different boat to me so whenever he weighed a fish he'd shout out what the weight was. Our boats were usually in the same vicinity so it was easy to communicate.

We hooked up big time on that trip. The conditions were fantastic and the fishing was just 'over the top' too good!! All we wanted to do was cast...cast...cast & haul 'em in. It was cloud nine...

Later on the bloke with the scales re-hashed some of the weights he'd measured. I jotted some down and sent in a report to Fishing World about the trip.

Then a month later a few rumours circulated. I confronted 'ole mate' about the main gist of the talk and he confessed.....When he'd checked later, the scales were actually in POUNDS and he'd been quoting all the weights in KILOS.

I contacted Fishing World to explain what had happened but it was too late - the article was past the point of no return. Talk about embarrassing..!

No-one thought to confirm his weight readings at the time. We were all just super keen to keep our lines in the water. We all just went with the flow, with swelled heads about these humungously heavy fish we were catching.

So the bottom line is: "Verify things yourself" and don't rely on a second party to do your measuring for you.

[PNG1M]

This time it was September 2005 and the conditions at Suki weren't too good.

The Fly River was high and had forced a lot of dirty water into Suki Creek. We had to fish upstream towards the billabong/waterhole, catchment areas.

This time NO-ONE had a set of weighing scales. The barra were very sparce on this trip but the black bass were there & on the chew.

Some of them were monsters at 90cm plus. We did have a soft tailors style tape measure with us so at least we could get lengths.

BUT one bloke was determined to get a weight measurement for a 93cm black bass he caught as it was his PB. He thought for a while about a suitable comparison scale.

Then he decided to compare the weight of the black bass with the weight of his wife's check-in luggage.

He reckoned he'd lugged her suitcase around at airports enough to know. And he knew its exact weight by the readings at the check-in counter.

So the bass's weight miraculously started off at 23kgs neat. I was in the boat & so was another bloke and we had a debate about check-in luggage weights.

The other guy compared the fish to his memory of his own wife's airport luggage and he reckoned 23kgs was too much. So did I...

After 10mins of 'ups and downs' we finally rounded the fishes weight off at 17.3kg (don't ask me where the .3 came from - I think it just sounded good)

And I heard that weight quoted several times over the next 12 months (as an accurate reading), mostly at the bar of our local golf club.

Tru..!