Common Rail Diesels?

[Lovey80]

Hi guys, am looking at the moment at a larger 4WD for towing and camping. Weight is under 3t. There's a few nice 4WD's out there. What I would like to know is when did the respective makers start using Common rail on:

Nissan Patrol 3.0L Turbo Diesel
Landcruiser 4.2L + 4.5L Turbo Diesel


As a side note I have noticed a few not too happy with the Nissan 3.0L TD. Exactly what problems have people heard about these engines? Why didnt Nissan fit common rail to the old 4.2L Engine?

All your help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Chris

[BenDover]

They have PLENTY of problems mate. On the nissan patrol and outterlimits forum they have a list of blowups. Around 150 people or so.. There are preventative things you can do but they just keep blowing up. Some guys have them blow at 30 000k's and some at 100 000k's. Some are even on their 3rd engine. Even the new ones "suppossedly fixed ones" have been blowing up. Steer well clear.
NISSAN doesnt warrant about half of the blow ups. I guess it is upto how they feel for that day. They are a barstard to deal with. Worse company ever.

Oil feed to the turbo and water cooled turbo problems. EGT through the roof. They have 2 crank ballancers and the rear 1 causes vibrations through the engine (cylinder 3 usually goes). Too many others little things to list. But they are the main ones.

A few of the guys have had enough and are cutting their loss's. I really feel for them. If you look on ebay they are selling their near new GU's for $10 500 without an engine.

Another guy took time off to do an around australia trip with his fam. Didnt even have a chance. Blew up. Ripped it out and put a 6.6 litre chev diesel in it. Got it all finished decked out ready to go and then ran out of time. Sold it for $35 000 on ebay. Bought site unseen. What a bargain.

[Lucky_Phill]

I have been hearing a lot about the common rail not liking water in the fuel. soon as it gets near the pump,, the pump gives up ?

Anyone else hear this or know more ?



Phill

[GBC]

You'd need a LOT of water in the fuel phil -

The colorado has a water pickup at the lowest point of the fuel system under the car which is monitored via the dash, it's pressurised and if an alarm goes off you open a little tap in the engine bay and it drains off - apparently?? - that's what the manual says anyway. Haven't had the pleasure yet.

You'd have to be doing something pretty seriously wrong to get water to the pump.

Bosch diesel rails run 30 000 psi + so yes I'd say water would cause a bit of havoc.

[BenDover]

Patrol 3 Litre Victims..
To anyone wanting to buy a 3L handgrenade.. NEED I SAY ANYMORE...

Daggs.
Blown_zd30-------------------------- 244K
Roly.
AJB------------------------------------196K
Pud & Barb--------------------------165K
Bulla. (daughters car)
Yakodi--------------------------------130K
Plugger.
JR -------------------------------------130K
Mike.
B & M. -------------------------------126K
Emackj--------------------------------157K
Fourstall2000-------------------------118K
Donald A-------------------------------50K 2004 STL
Old Johno---------------------------------------2000
Ron 2006-------------------------------152K
BushMark-----------------------------109K---2001
Ted--------------------------------------170K---2000
Piggy------------------------------------106K---2001
Rob------------------------------------------------2001
Trevmari-------------------------------141K---2000
Muckrunner-------------------------------------2000
Ppk--------------------------------------160K---2000
Rapid-------------------------------------60K---2004
BittenbyZD30-----------------------------------2000
Alex V------------------------------------84K---2001
Jo64-----------------------------------------------2000
Hen Pecked-----------------------------135K—2003
Mick O-----------------------------------
Sharyn---------------------------------------------2001
Void246----------------------------------150K—2000
Drilly-------------------------------------165K---2000
On Patrol--------------------------------182K---2003
Christa-----------------------------------62K----2005 Navara
Captain Chaos--------------------------141K
MalcolmC--------------------------------112K---2005
Jonesy65----------------------------------200K

Nissan Club members.

Graeme Wise. -----------------------72K
Ken Beard.
James Watson.


Outerlimits members

Manno74
Poo-trol-------------------------------66K
Wendle--------------------------------115K 2001
Rustys---------------------------------67K 2001
deanchristensen0001---------------31K 2005
Ergjan19------------------------------190K------2000
GUFun--------------------------------127K------2004
Crazynut------------------------------100K------Dec2003



Patrol 4x4.com forum

Mickyd-------------------------------- 2002
Waveriders--------------------------- 98K 2002
Redeye---------------------------------190K
Link-------------------------------------82K 2000
Pat3L
LesleyPerry---------------------------83K 2001
Scratch---------------------------------89K 2002
Stephan--------------------------------150K
JimmyB--------------------------------
Phyrebug (brother’s car)----------210K
Dirty Wheels-------------------------246K-------2001
Phoenie--------------------------------145K-------2003
Ramas----------------------------------231K------2001
Bigal------------------------------------
Martyn79-----------------------------96K
Extreme1-----------------------------140K
Revs-------------------------------------------------2000
Mick013------------------------------157K
jwmr----------------------------------130K-------2001
GUhoon------------------------------150K-------2000
Kirbs----------------------------------150K-------2000
Graham Slater------------------------27K-------2001
G Gudmundsson (Iceland)--------121K-------2002
Tourman
Jack3ld--------------------------------90K---------2002
Kleinstroops-------------------------104K
GUGreat (brother in law’s car)-180K--------2000
Aljohno-------------------------------140K--------2000
Hungry--------------------------------118K--------2001
Maddog1980-------------------------190K--------2000
PC1958--------------------------------190K--------2002
Fuzz------------------------------------190K--------2000
Tony Howe-----------------------------95K
Hodgo----------------------------------162K--------2000
Schommy-----------------------------160K--------2000
Websavages--------------------------
Stressed-----------------------------------------------2001
Walters--------------------------------147K--------2000
Ttam------------------------------------146K-------2000
Pist’n broke---------------------------100K-------2004
Peterfraser3---------------------------120K-------2000
GU Mick-------------------------------150K------2002
Gibbsy---------------------------------
Roger Brown-------------------------
Carljohn-------------------------------141K--------2000



MSN Caravanners Forum.

Ddarren11-----------------------------155K------2002
Ron Shirley-----------------------------------------2000


Yahoo Group. Patrol 4wd. & GU Patrol.

Jtbattau---------------------------------133K------2000
Nomad441946--------------------------------------2000
Paul Julian-----------------------------255K------2000
Paul Julian engine No 2--------------98K-------2003
Redeye141
Coight4wd------------------------------186K
Patrol444--------------------------------161K-----2001
little pn-----------------------------------190K----2000



Overlander 4wd Forum.

Dopey------------------------------------90-100K---
Weekend Maverick (parents car)—124K----2002

And the list keep growing and growing...
Now even the later ones are blowing up 04 - 07


All I can say is good luck.

[Lovey80]

BUGGER ME!!!! THANKYOU very much for that info. I was almost sold on a patrol looking at what you get for your cash compared to the Cruiser but as it looks you get what you pay for. Glad I didn't hand over 50 something grand for a piece of junk!

What about the older 4.2L I hear they are a much better vehicle. Can they be fitted with common rail? If so what cash are we talking just to save on fuel?

Cheers

Chris

[GBC]

So far as I know there have been no common rail 4.2 nissan or toyota motors.
It's much bigger than just the fuel injection system and I doubt it would be a worthwhile excercise to try to convert one.

There are plenty of 4.2 nissan owners here - suffice to say it will cost between 3 and 5 k to get them anywhere near a performance that is on a par with anything else performance wise.

They require 5k oil changes, use from 14l/100 upwards and the cooling system requires more care than most.

Having said that if I was after a long termer for touring I'd have one in a heartbeat.

[Lovey80]

GBC I am pretty sure the new Toyota 4.2 and V8 4.5 are now common rail but wasn't sure exactly when they came in. I was told by someone that thought sometime in 2007 but couldnt be certain.

That fuel usage is quite high on the Nissan,what sort of care are you talking about on the cooling system? Are there permenent remedies for the problems, like after market gear?

Cheers

Chris

[ozscott]

The 4.2 was a solid diesel and could be tricked up to perform hard. The smaller Nissan turbo diesels are a drama. My brother recently got a GU off ebay - immaculate low ks with plenty of nice gear on it for about $4k - you guessed it blown motor. He is a diesel mechanic and 4wd specialists so he has a lot of options for it in terms of a re-power, but you can bet none of them include another small displacment Nissan motor...

Cheers

[BenDover]

Lovey80 - Nissan patrol (GU's) are a beautiful 4x4. A much stronger gear box and drive line than cruiser. But the 3 litre go bang. And the 4.2 are SLUGS, even if you spend 5k they will just be on par with a stock 3 litre power. How ever in standard form they do go forever.

Does it have to be Diesel?
The nissan 4.5 and 4.8 are pretty punchy. But do drink alot.

The beeezz knee's is a gu running a 5.7 350 which I have and are now sellling. But bang for buck, Id just buy a cruiser if I where you. The 1HD is the model up from the old 1HZ engine. Both are 4.2 litres Turbo diesels in the gxl range (The other models are non turbo). The 1HD is also intercooled 151kw vs 115kw. This motor came in in 100 series and on. Hope this helps.

[GBC]

G'day Lovey80,

I'm pretty sure the straight 6 4.2 is discontinued (emissions)

The 79 is a single turbo 4500 v8 cr
The 200 is the ame block with twin turbos

I think.:-/

[nigelr]

How much you looking to spend, Lovey?
Will it be a single purpose vehicle (towing), a family vehicle or just a 'boys' toy'?
Will you be doing long or short trips? Daily driver or just every now and again?
Diesels respond best to plenty of work and scrupulous maintainance, eg that they are used for line haul is no coincidence.
Cheers.

[Lovey80]

The car will be a daily driver, used for towing and camping. Will do some offroad but nothing crazy, at most a trip to the Gulf towing about 1.8t and towing heavier boat (yet to be decided 2.5t plus mostly on tar no further than 1770). I was hoping to find something in good nick with low km for under 40k but that could be hard to do. At the end of the day I want to be able to pull a 5.2kc -1900/2100kc when I find one and the camper/boat you see in my avitar on the more remote trips. If i had the cash I'd own a new 200 series but its out of my price for a few years to come.

Cheers

Chris

[nigelr]

Chris for that money in the buyers' market that exists at the moment I reckon you would be in with a very good chance of finding something suitable, personally from your description of your intended usage pattern, I'd be after a diesel Landcruiser with a factory turbo, well maintained with appropriate service records. Having said that, you may very well have to travel a fair bit to check a few out.
As others have said elsewhere on this forum, the 80 series models with the factory turbo diesel 1HD-T are highly regarded and a late model with low k's and in very good nick should be yours for around half your budget. These vehicles can do half a mill ks or more if well looked after.
Cheers.

[BenDover]

1HD-T's are 100 series and on nigelr. The 80 series has a 1HZ-T

[nigelr]

Ben, according to my factory Toyota 1HZ engine repair manual, which covers the 1PZ, 1HZ and 1HD-T diesel engines, 1HD-T is what Toyota calls the factory turbo'd 1HZ used in the 80 series.
I believe the 1HD-T was superceded by the 1HD-FT and then the 1HD-FTE.
Don't know what they use now though, some sort of V8?
Cheers.

[FNQCairns]

Here is a vid mainly for the writing at the end, times have now changed, how Cruiser and Patrol drivers used to look at jeep ramblers for their all round ability is exactly the same way GU 4.2td owners now look at every other new 4wd!

If it where me I would buy a mint condition GU4.2td one of the last models, everything since sold here is no higher than urban assult soft in one way or another, the GU then was still all round capable enough to go everywhere even a 80 model cruiser once did, just as long term reliable so you do get home and comfy enough, although they will not accelerate or corner like sports car.

I think we have actually gone backwards!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul8nMKyqHQ&feature=related

cheers fnq

[BenDover]

Well its wrong. 1HZ's came out in the 80 series. The 1HD's are a little different "thus the extra horse power". Replaced now with the 4.5 litre V8 twin turbo diesel.

You can look it all up on redbook.

[nigelr]

No Ben the factory manual is not wrong.
However you are correct, the 1HZ did come out in the 80 series, and the 1HD-T is a little different, the 1HD-T is direct injection turbo charged when as the 1HZ is indirect injection naturally aspirated, hence the 'extra horse power' of the 1HD-T.
The 1HD-T was built on the 1HZ block, and was available on 80 series GXLs until 1995 when the 1HD-TF (four valves per cylinder) was introduced.
Cheers.:)

[BenDover]

Ahhh your right. Stupid computer website... I was clicking turbo diesel. But it kept bringing up the naturally asp figures.
My Bad

[nigelr]

One thing I think we might both agree on Ben, those 80's are pretty good value for the $.
Cheers.

[BenDover]

1HZ - 94kw
1HDT - 115kw
1HDTF - 118kw
1HDFTE - 151kw
Not much of an increase from when the turbo was fitted 94 - 115...

[BenDover]

Youd laugh if I told you im selling my highly moded V8 GU patrol (about $65 000 worth) to get an 80 series :).

[nigelr]

No Ben I really wouldn't, personally I'd reckon that would be a good move, less $$ tied up in a vehicle, therefore less stress and more fun as a result!
Cheers.

[dlp981]

i have only heard of the older patrols blowing up, havent heard of any common rail diesels patrols blowing up though

[Lovey80]

Ok guys now you have me thinking. What are the Auto boxes like in the pre 2000 landcruisers? Should I stick to manual?

[nigelr]

Specificaly, the H150 and H151 - 5 speed manual boxes found in the 60, 70 and 80 series Landcruisers are excellent. The auto boxes found in the same series are renowned for their versatility and strength.
Owners of either box seem happy, I love my 5 speed manual, I have driven the auto (with overdrive) in the Sahara and it is also great, would be happy with either. The auto is apparently great in the sand and for towing, and is certainly much more user-friendly around town.
Cheers.

[Lovey80]

Sorry lads one last question (maybe). Is the tow cap for the 80 series 3.5t?

and does that change between boxes?

Cheers

chris

[GBC]

80 series manuals had a habit of losing their gear sticks on corrugations - stupid little plastic carrier thingy inside the gearbox - the garage in Weipa has heaps and it only takes a day or two to do the job:P. Other than that both boxes are strong enough - wouldn't recommend towing big things in O.D. in either manual or diesel.

Check closely the towing capacity - it changed from f-all (1800 odd?) to the higher rate some time after 1993 (I think it was the '95 update with the chocolate dash) - mine was a '93 model and it could tow f-all. Same car same brakes.