Diesel Fuel Additives

[Aussie Spirit]

This question for sure would have been discussed many times. With the diesel fuel that we are now using, is there a need or a requirement from time to time to add any additives to clean injectors etc, or is there a requirement to add anything at all. If yes what are most drivers using to keep their vehicles in top running order.

[Steeler]

Hi Aussie Spirit

Have used Chemtec Diesel Power with wonderful results in the past.Not cheap but good and only used when i thought it was needed not as a ongoing regular thing.

Cheers

Steve

[DR]

I know a few who swear by Bi-Tron
http://bi-tronaustralia.com/
I have started using the 2 stroke additive in my outboard & am taking notice to see what difference it makes..

[QldKev]

I use 1L of ULP in a tank of diesel to clean the injectors. Up to 10% ratio is ok, but would not recommend it in newer HPDI setups.

QldKev

[White Pointer]

G'day,

If you have a new diesel do not add anything to the fuel. Buy the cleanest fuel you can get and expect your filters and regular servicing to do the rest.

If you have an older diesel, and you run it with clean fuel, there is nothing you can add except a lubricant (purified vegetable oil) that will help. A 5% concentration is maximum. Check with vehicle manufacturers for recommendations on this.

Do not under any circumstances add petrol (octane) to a diesel fuel. The fuels will separate in the tank with dire consequences.

White Pointer

[Benny01]

the newer diesels will still get diesel bug( jelly like egg things) in the fuel system and some diesel additives wont kill it. EDT by wynns kills the diesel bug as well as any algae if it forms as well as keep injectors clean

[FNQCairns]

I use up to 10% ULP when I want more power and economy, i use it on trips and try to design it so the car will be sitting with only a minor percentage still in the fuel, White pointers idea of it separating has not been an issue yet...might do the test to make sense of it, thanks.

My aftermarket repair manual (haynes) states it's ok to use up to 30% pertrol and drive normally if by accident it was pumped in instead of diesel.

The only thing that keeps trucks in the norther hemisphere winter running is the petrol added and truckies here for 10s of years have been using it for interstate hauls I understand. I am only ever talking about pre comp diesels.

All additives to increase cetane are snake oil unless it's a real good dose that gets added say 3-5% of tank volume, but they might have detergents etc which have their place.

cheers fnq

[tunaticer]

It would be interesting to have two fleet vehicles that do the same work km and weight carriage and do a year long test on one with and one without additives and compare the results after a yr including comp test, oil pressure test, internal inspections, injector inspections and tests, and injector pump comparisons as well as consumptions and servicing costs.

My gut feeling is you will need to reach the 300 000km before any noticeable advantage will be seen if any.

Quick turnover of fuels is probably the best thing you can do for your motor outside of good servicing.

[White Pointer]

G'day,

I suggest that you find out the name of the maintenance manager at your local (major) trucking or bus company and invite him for a drink - at your expense and ask him.

These guys do millions of KM per annum and measure costs in fractions of a cent per KM. They will tell you about the best low friction lubricants and the cleanest diesel and even which servos to buy it from.

Good people to know.

White Pointer

[whiteman]

My Tojo dealer wanted to put some diesel fuel additive into my Prado D4D last service - it only cost $17.50! I said no and then read the warranty which specifically bans all fuel additives. When I contacted the dealer they said that Tojo additives were OK. No thanks. I try and get diesel from well used bowsers such as Woollies. If you read the thread in Pradopoint about the diesel "rattle" there is a heap of discussion about the merits of fuel additives. This is the first forum where I have read about someone deliberately adding ULP to diesel! Ugg ... I can just imagine the fight with the dealer if something went wrong!

[White Pointer]

I use up to 10% ULP when I want more power and economy, i use it on trips and try to design it so the car will be sitting with only a minor percentage still in the fuel, White pointers idea of it separating has not been an issue yet...might do the test to make sense of it, thanks.

My aftermarket repair manual (haynes) states it's ok to use up to 30% pertrol and drive normally if by accident it was pumped in instead of diesel.

The only thing that keeps trucks in the norther hemisphere winter running is the petrol added and truckies here for 10s of years have been using it for interstate hauls I understand. I am only ever talking about pre comp diesels.

All additives to increase cetane are snake oil unless it's a real good dose that gets added say 3-5% of tank volume, but they might have detergents etc which have their place.

cheers fnq

G'day,

I did some work with Defence in the cold climate of Canada and I can assure your that petrol played no part.

We had heating elements in the fuel tanks and cooling systems to prevent the fuel from "waxing" and coolant from freezing had to plug them into mains when parked.

Do not add petrol to diesel in a diesel engine. Diesels run cool and will not burn the additives in petrol that build octane. That is because they do not run hot enough to run a 3-stage catalyst so the unburned fuel meets the air that we breath.

The big nasty in petrol is poly-cycyclic-aromatic hydrocarbons - not the only one. The unburned PCH is not soluble in water. It is a carcenogenic. It sits on plants and in the soil, is ingested by animals and fish ultimately consumed by us.

Don't mix your drinks!

White Pointer

[FNQCairns]

G'day,

I did some work with Defence in the cold climate of Canada and I can assure your that petrol played no part.

We had heating elements in the fuel tanks and cooling systems to prevent the fuel from "waxing" and coolant from freezing had to plug them into mains when parked.

Do not add petrol to diesel in a diesel engine. Diesels run cool and will not burn the additives in petrol that build octane. That is because they do not run hot enough to run a 3-stage catalyst so the unburned fuel meets the air that we breath.

The big nasty in petrol is poly-cycyclic-aromatic hydrocarbons - not the only one. The unburned PCH is not soluble in water. It is a carcenogenic. It sits on plants and in the soil, is ingested by animals and fish ultimately consumed by us.

Don't mix your drinks!

White Pointer

Thanks for the informative post, I would fully agree that the government themselves would not consider the addition of 'gas' to diesel in those northern regions but that is their very nature. The public for what they want and need to achieve is an entirely different matter.

On the PCHs this is a very broad area and broader also when carcinogenicity is involved and yes a technical tick for sure, although I still eat raw mushrooms and PCH containing compounds are routinely prescribed for babies and children/adults to treat skin conditions. I think you get my point at least i hope so because there are a thousand examples.

As I was speaking of precomp diesels (older school engines) only I understand that they can run cooler overall than the new school variants although if considering the combustion temperatures at approximately twice the compression ratio as a petrol engine they run quite simply just as hot, where it gets garbled in conversation often is that upon exit of gasses from combustion, the release to 1bar atmospheric is a huge relative drop in pressure which quenches heat very well and gives the illusion of cool combustion. Yes the diesels are cooler broadly speaking but only outside of the combustion chamber....hence I suspect your catalytic reference but lots of petrol's run legally without cats.

Personal experience with petrol for a while now affords me 2 simple observations, marginally better fuel economy and a good dose of extra power on tap. Your reference to the 2 fuels separating is interesting so I will do that experiment as things do change but because the use of petrol in diesel for the advantages it allows is not modern mainstream knowledge doesn't mean it has not been done and has been accepted for literally generations.

I do agree nobody should strictly do it and I don't advocate it but neither do I censor any of the real world knowledge base around it.

cheers fnq

[scrubba01]

I use a product called fuel set every couple of months stops growth in the tank as well as disperses water. Pulled my injectors out of my hilux after 200 00klm and put them strait back in nothing wrong with them.

[jimbamb]

Just chucking a fly in for conversation sake..
What about the 2% ethanol now added to all caltex deisel ex newcastle and probably other places..????
isnt ethanol alcohol.. similar to petrol??

Personally i wouldnt add petrol myself and know of a few transport companies that dont.I have NEVER seen anyone add petrol to a truck tank !!!
Have seen what can happen when petrol gets into a deisel engine.They rev themselves to pieces literally.
Fuel delivery trucks have to have a fire ext installed into the intake of engine in case the wrong fuel gets put in .if this happens the only way to stop them is by cutting off the oxygen supply by injecting gas.
thats why i wont put a drop of petrol in..
Please correct me if i am not right.
Jim

[FNQCairns]

yeah Jim plain silly to try and run a diesel on pure petrol, I didn't know they where adding an oxygenate to diesel yet, I know it was possible but had hoped it would stay flying low under the radar here in OZ, too much money in it possibly for that...now i need to research this too as there is simply so much parroting and dogma surrounding fuels, half truths will always be half truths, the trick is to weight and identify, IMO only then can one make a choice.

cheers fnq

[Aussie Spirit]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the comments posted on this issue, I currently run a 3.2L turbo diesel, just completed approx 26,000kms. Do want to look at some additive just to keep the fuel from starting to gown any form of growth.

I remember when I was in the army, our armoured vehicles (APC's) started to form a jelly like substance in the fuel cells. The vehicles mechs used something called Bio-bore if I remember rightly.

[jimbamb]

FNQ,
only found out about ethonol business by accident noticed a disclaimer on a bowser in macksville when i saked about it i was told it is going to be a requirement of fuel companies to have all deisel with 2% by 2011 and to be increased to 5% in future.
Started looking at consumption figures and found a significient rise in figures(I was using more fuel) whenever i used caltex deisel.These figures were towing a 17ft van with 2,5 turbo mazda.
jim

[rowanda]

Hi Jimbamb
I think you'll find that the 2% added to Caltex's diesel is 2% biodiesel not ethanol

What is biodiesel?


Biodiesel (bio diesel) is a biofuel derived from renewable (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=R) plant or animal feedstocks (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=F) containing fatty acids, such as vegetable oils and tallow (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=T).
A percentage of biodiesel can be mixed with petroleum diesel (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=P) to produce a biodiesel-blend fuel for use in diesel (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=D) vehicles and equipment.
In New South Wales and South Australia, motorists and commercial truck and bus fleets can buy Caltex Bio B5 (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=B) with up to 5% biodiesel. And in South Australia, commercial customers have the added option of B20 (a 20% biodiesel blend).

Our New Generation Diesel (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=N) with a 2% blend meets the Australian standard for diesel (http://www.caltex.com.au/biofuels/Glossary.aspx?id=D), and can be used in all diesel vehicles and equipment

Rowan

[jimbamb]

Rowan
I stand corrected!!!!
JimB

[rowanda]

no prob mate, always good to have the correct info.