gone

[sid_fishes]

was told this morning as i walked thru our carparks that satisfaction marine have shut their doors. suzuki picked up thier motors, poeple unpaid etc. they will be missed. great poeple, great service
sid

[Leighton]

they wont be the only one
word is there will be others by the weekend:-X
enough said

[-spiro-]

looks like times are getting tougher

[tin can marlin]

I must say that we as members have to be careful. I put a thread up about springwood marine that turned out to be untrue and i had egg on my face. I would say that this could be a rumor or they might be downsizeing etc(satisfaction marie). I know it seems the marine game has a lot of majors problems but as members we need to get behind these retailers not only for the business owners but also the workers and also suppliers. I have leart my lesson and i would say to all ausfish members to support there local dealer etc. After all the more that go by the way side the more expensive boats etc will become as the one's left will not have the competion.

[hino310]

No,this is no rumor

[PinHead]

give up tcm...you even label some as fly by nighters.
Bugger the businesses..if they cannot manage their business it is not my problem...the good operators will be there all the time.

BTW..have never heard of Satisfaction Marine.

[datamile]

http://www.satisfactionmarine.com.au/ ?

[ShaneC]

So... what would happen if your boat was in Satisfaction Marine's yard when the liquidators came, getting a service fo instance??

My Pommy mate here informs me that the boat becomes the property of the liquidator, is this true???

[tin can marlin]

I think your being a bit hard maybe if more people purchased oz made boats we would be better off after all it is basicly the yanks that have got us in the poo. And were is your boat made again.

[Local_Guy]

shanec, if the boat is in getting a service then your not going to lose your boat to liquidators... you own the boat. if they took that, they would be stealing from you.

i'm sure they would finish the service, charge you as normal and off you go.

[trueblue]

sorry to hear that

[PinHead]

I think your being a bit hard maybe if more people purchased oz made boats we would be better off after all it is basicly the yanks that have got us in the poo. And were is your boat made again.


why am I being hard? If my business fails it is due to only one thing..my incomptetence at managing the business.
My boat and the previous one were both made in the USA. Why? Because far better value for money than the local boats. I don't run a charity...I buy what suits my needs and value for money...Oh but obviously you do not realise they were bought through Aussie dealers and obviously serviced locally.
How did the yanks get us in the poo...anyone that is in the poo is because they are living on borrowed money..ask Eddie Groves what happens then. If you have nothing on credit then there are no problems.

[sleepygreg]

Tell me what major/medium business has nothing on credit PinHead?

[sleepygreg]

And please convey your thoughts to EVERYONE that has a mortgage....after all ..that is credit.

[sleepygreg]

or are you suggesting that everyone who has a mortgage cannot manage their finances, therefore they dont have the right to exist?

[Mike Delisser]

Is there room under that rock for the rest of us Pinhead???

[PinHead]

And please convey your thoughts to EVERYONE that has a mortgage....after all ..that is credit.

I did not say that there is anything wrong with credit..managed properly...but if you are in the poo then perhaps you have over committed.
And that is where a lot of businesses come unstuck...especially retail outlets such as marine dealers...I looked at Satisfaction's website...lots of brands on there..if stocking some of each manufacturers products and sales slow then obviously there is going to be a cash flow problem...which leads to their demise.
Sad for those involved, but true.

[PinHead]

Is there room under that rock for the rest of us Greg???

LOL..plenty of room. Easier just to stay under the rock and cruise along and no dramas then.

[Donny Boy]

Sorry to hear that about Satisfaction...............that's where we were, wasn't it ?

[Chris Ryan]

So any idea when their firesale might be on? I am sure they will need all the cash they can out of that so it would be pertinent to let people know early.

[business class]

Most of the second hand boats i assume will go on sale????? maybe???? But all of the new boats would be under there floor plan so i assume that the companys would have to bye them back as it would be under an agreement with GE i guess???? but i may be wrong. Also Poor Suzuki as there were prob there biggest dealer, well them and springwood.

Cheers
Matty

[DR]

why am I being hard? If my business fails it is due to only one thing..my incomptetence at managing the business.


not totally true pinhead. I have seen business's forced to the wall by morons who have no idea, but think they do. These clowns enter a particular type of business & talk a great game, they work cheap, undercutting everyone ( good customers stay loyal, but when you rely on something that most won't replace for years, they are susceptible to price) they make life very difficult & after a year or so shut down after ruining the market around them. As near as i can figure you are in the air con business & appear to do larger contracts, you will have an 'in' with the construction companies & while you do good work, don't rip them off or shag one of their wives you won't lose the work. Anyone depending on domestic or small, one off business installations can feel the squeeze i have mentioned. Boat yards don't have repeat customers buying a new boat every 2 weeks, usually years apart & it is probably one of the worst for the 'dodgy' salesman. Established, big yards have more chance of surviving, a lot of time with BS, but the fair dinkum little bloke can struggle..

[boatboy50]

Hey Guys,

Business is tough anywhere in this world right now.

Businesses close for many varied reasons, and poor management is not always the case. Pinheads summary is a blanket one, which does not always apply. There is no way to manage a market which abruptly ceases to operate, as seems to be the case at the moment.

In practice, owners who had boats in being serviced, recieved a phone call from the administrators to say come and collect your boat, regardless of whether it was finished, in pieces, or not even started. Any boats which were finished had to be paid for before release. The mechanics have just lost their jobs, and unless you approach them and pay cash to have it finished, it is as it is.

Satisfaction Marine had no used boats, only new. Their stock, boats, chandlery ect has been cleaned out by their suppliers, the remainder will go to private auction somewhere at some point.

Lets not carry on about poor management, or their product, or the way they did business. Lets just hope that the 20 odd staff who are now out of a job get their entitlements back, and that they can meet their mortgage payments next week.

The used boat yard next door, Coastwide Marine, was not affected, and is business as usual.

Regards

Darren

[Mike Delisser]

LOL..plenty of room. Easier just to stay under the rock and cruise along and no dramas then.

....;).....

[Pobblebonk]

That is quite sad, and I hope their employees get looked after, and damn, so close to Christmas. What a shame.


why am I being hard? If my business fails it is due to only one thing..my incomptetence at managing the business.

Lets hope your business doesn't fail mate, because we'll all know what that means ;D

But it's certainly not the case with everyone. I've seen many a local hardware store shut shop after generations of the same family running it, because a Bunnings opened up down the road. [completely unrelated I know]

[Dirtysanchez]

Guys, perhaps it is this.

In the car industry, for a lot of the smaller / independant yards, the cars on the lot are in fact owned by a finance company, not the proprietors of the yard. In Aus there are only 2 finance companies that provide this sort of service, and they have both recently announced they are going to stop it because of the credit crunch. It means a lot of yards will disappear over the next 12 months. It does not mean they have mismanaged their business.

Perhaps and I am speculating, but perhaps it is the same situation for boat yards, perhaps they get finance to hold stock of boats and motors, and this finance is simply no longer available, hence a lot of smaller boat yards will also close ?

Until you can build the capital to buy your own stocks either by overdraft, or from your pocket, this is a fairly normal practice. These finance companies could also appear in other iterations in these yards as zzzMarine finance etc. or zzzmotor finance in the case of car yards.

It is a shame to hear these sort of things, it simply erodes competition in the market

[boatboy50]

Hey Guys,

Before rumour flies, I also just had it confirmed that Hinterland Marine will be closing their Burleigh store, and operating out of their much smaller Labrador store, which is a Yamaha dealer.

It is effective January 1, and I am not sure if they are maintaining the ETEC franchise.

Support your local if you are in the market. Times are tough.

Regards

Darren

[Donny Boy]

Geez, they're dropping like flies.
I'm glad I'm not in the Marine game..............

I'm in Construction........got nothing to worry about

Yeah, right............................ :o

[Pobblebonk]

I'm in Construction........got nothing to worry about

Yeah, right............................ :o

I work in construction too, for a major contractor in the game.

In Brisbane, there are so many construction projects in the works and beginning to ramp up that our site is aware of the probable labour shortage that will arise once the billion dollar projects such as Airport Link start hiring, and the competition for labour between the major projects. :o

[Mindi]

I think TCM was in error on Springwood but doing the right thing raising the alert as long as it was in good faith...(ie he believed it to be true.) Presume that this thread is also in good faith and I appreciate it as it alerts me to be careful shopping there. As long as retail customers remain unsecured creditors you cant blame consumers from warning each other of danger. Seems to me exactly what forums like this are for....PROVIDED it is done genuinely in good faith.
It's sad for Satisfaction Marine....presumably more jobs and perhaps deposits lost.

[Ocean_Spirit]

I agree with the above sentiments - it is very unfortunate for the staff and owner's. Having dealt with staff of Satisfaction Marine in their parts area once, I was very impressed with the level of service they offered. They had a presentable show-room and carried plenty of stock.

Like any business owner, they put a lot on the line and had a great looking yard wth plenty of stock. The unfortunate outcome of this is that all their hard-work, risk and persistence to increase the value of their goodwill is essentially lost. Australia has a long history of hard-working entrepreneurs with legends like RM Williams, etc. who have shaped this country and provided employment, opportunity and fuelled growth. Among these men and women are plenty of boat-builders, mechanics, repairers, salespeople, etc. I really hope as a country we will soon see out the storm and overcome the 'doom and gloom' and keep that prosperity alive.

In these times, where demand slows, there is a positive chance for the manufacturers to reinvest in R&D, consolidate where they are at, and think ahead with the big picture in mind. The builders who did this in the late 80's (lead the industry today) stuck to this and have, in the past two decades, advanced a long way! Part of this will involve strategy - new concepts about how to avoid dealers having to bear such massive costs in floor-plans? Hopefully, the dealers see the return also from this with increased sales. New construction techniques such as Signature's RIVALE is a big plus - in turn seeing cost savings past onto the consumer, with reduced customer response times and more efficient manufacturing.

We're only here for a short-time, so we may as well make the most of it and stay positive!

[PinHead]

That is quite sad, and I hope their employees get looked after, and damn, so close to Christmas. What a shame.



Lets hope your business doesn't fail mate, because we'll all know what that means ;D

But it's certainly not the case with everyone. I've seen many a local hardware store shut shop after generations of the same family running it, because a Bunnings opened up down the road. [completely unrelated I know]

don't worry..been there, done that and learned a lot...almost 30 years back my first business went belly up..and the reason was..ME!!!!

Have now been operating this business since 1995..started with some cash..no credit..no overdraft..and still neither and do not operate accounts with suppliers..pay as I buy it.

DR..lots of those morons in my industry but all the licensing requirements now is starting to weed some out..thankfully.

As stated above....the hardest part with a marine dealership is funding the stock..a difficult task to estimate turnover well in advance but that is a part of the business they partake in.
Would be good to see the employees get their entitlements..but also as important..that the creditors get their money..they too have employees to pay.

[ant_72]

Hey there Pin Head in the economic climate that we are starting to see what is the first thing that people stop spending hard earned money on - Luxuries- I am under the impression that boating is a luxury so the boating industry has seen a down turn. Not to say that no boats are being sold but a noticable drop in the numbers and a swing in the type of boats being sold. If you are not getting the sales you are not making ends meet. Before you go and label them stop to consider the fact that it is a lot livelyhoods that are going down the gurgler. Don't just sit and say that they must have been bad operators there could be many contributing factors to their demise.

[PinHead]

Hey there Pin Head in the economic climate that we are starting to see what is the first thing that people stop spending hard earned money on - Luxuries- I am under the impression that boating is a luxury so the boating industry has seen a down turn. Not to say that no boats are being sold but a noticable drop in the numbers and a swing in the type of boats being sold. If you are not getting the sales you are not making ends meet. Before you go and label them stop to consider the fact that it is a lot livelyhoods that are going down the gurgler. Don't just sit and say that they must have been bad operators there could be many contributing factors to their demise.

get off my case..i am not the ones that have gone down the gurgler.
In any business, you need a strategy based on worse case scenario and an EXIT strategy whereby you can pay your employees and creditors what they are owed at any time and then close the doors..if that is not in place then bad management.

[Dirtysanchez]

I agree - if you have been running that close to the bread line with overdrafts or high interest loans to maintain stocks whilst economic indicators were forecasting the downturn as they are, and you then got to the stage where you can't pay wages etc, you clearly missed something along the way, which is a shame and puts immense pressure on those who become out of pocket as a result.
I know and it does not need to be said, the people behind this business have most likely lost everything too.. which is dreadful

[Wahoo]

i agree with what Pinhead said, now days it is way to easy to get finance. rates go up 1/2% and you see PPL jump up and down crying, now do you really think these PPL should have a loan for a business or even a house loan??? think not, and this is why the US is the way it is, fuel prices go down and all of a sudden they spend the money else were instead of putting it away, when the rates go down which they will even more, PPL will still spend the money instead of putting it away, then cry when they go up no ones fault but there own.......

[Jabba_]

Yep lots of boat yards doing it tough at the moment....

It is true Hinterland Marine Burleigh will be closing its doors effective from January 1 http://www.hinterlandmarine.com.au/ and moving to its Labrador Marine Tune..

They will no longer be a dealer for Hains Hunter, Quintrex and E-tec...

[Tangles]

Everyone is just blaming the economy downturn, the world is in financial crisis is all we hear from those newsreaders who have dived into a bucket of makeup and spend hours everyday practicising talking while smiling at the same time,

The latest doom and doom is a bit like climate change and I do remember the sky was falling in with the ozone layer a few years ago., but its still up there. Gave up listening to them ages ago.

Contrary to what those mental giants reading the news say every 5 minutes proclaiming that the world is on the brink of collapse and we are all financially doomed, well the Fast 100 businesses dont think its just the economy, its how Directors make good decisions on the critical issues facing the business which will determine their future success or not ( and of course these vary)

Survey of Big Issues for 2009

Big Issues 2009 (facing world economic meltdown)
1: Hiring Quality Staff 63%
2: Slowing Economic Conditions 43%
3: Capital for Growth 30%
4: Managing Staff 30%

Compare that to the Big Issues in 2008
1: Hiring Quality Staff 66%
2: Growth Strategies 32%
3: Managing Staff 27%
4: Margin Pressures 20%

Pretty interesting that businesses still believe their biggest issue in 2009 will still be hiring the right staff for their business as the number one item, not capital management, not the economic meltdown, no its the human element as it always has been. A good business needs good staff and good management.

And as ASIC puts it simply,
The legal obligations imposed on Directors underpin good corporate governance practices, these need to be balanced with commercial realities so that Directors can make good business decisions.

So likewise I dont think a business failure canbe simply put down to the economy... I do feel for the staff and hope they where properly looked after..

Mike

[pursuit001]

heard from a mate that they have closed down has any once heard this???

[Angryant]

heard from a mate that they have closed down has any once heard this???

Check their website:

http://www.hinterlandmarine.com.au/

[ant_72]

Pin Head i do agree with you about business strategy but working in the industry i know first hand the swing away from the spend on luxuries such as boating. The down turn has not sudden like some people believe but it is not the boom period as it was a few years ago. I just feel that a bit more sympathy for all persons involved might not go astray as we do not know all the facts that have led to the downfall. Sorry if you took offence but being in the industry with the economic climate i worry for not just my livelyhood but all in the industry

[dreemon]

Hinterland has always been happy and helpfull unlike Marine tune that wouldn't help get me parts for a yamaha made mariner, they took the order and the parts said yamaha, I think they/hinterland tried .

[captain rednut]

I must say that we as members have to be careful. I put a thread up about springwood marine that turned out to be untrue and i had egg on my face. I would say that this could be a rumor or they might be downsizeing etc(satisfaction marie). I know it seems the marine game has a lot of majors problems but as members we need to get behind these retailers not only for the business owners but also the workers and also suppliers. I have leart my lesson and i would say to all ausfish members to support there local dealer etc. After all the more that go by the way side the more expensive boats etc will become as the one's left will not have the competion.
hi tin can marlin
it is good to see you starting to support us marine dealers in these hard times by writing a little positive news from time to time as consumer confidence can be affected by these forums as well?. it was good to see you learned from your previous mistake.
cheers jim

[Deadstick]

It is interesting to sit here & read all these comments from everyone debating business management & economics when it concerns other peoples futures.

I am here to clarify a couple of points on this thread for you. I am the manager of Hinterland Marine. Yes it is true that we will be closing our Burleigh branch as of the 1st of January. It certainly hasn't been an easy decision to make in doing this but is necessary for the survival of our business.

As Pinhead has pointed out quite often a lot of businesses fail due to poor or mismanagement but this is not always the case. The marine industry is very complex to manage & very susceptible to market conditions as is obvious by the amount of marine dealers that are closing there doors. We realised some time ago that the market was declining & have done our best to manage stock levels by selling down & not reordering. we have also cut back in our numbers of staff to minimum levels. Despite our best efforts even in the peak of our selling season sales would be down at least 50% & this has been outside of our control.

It may be easy in your business to own your stock outright & manage your cash flow but this is not the case with marine. Most Marine dealers would run a stock level of between 1,000,000 - 5,000,000 depending on the brands they carry. Put on top of this that most lead times vary between 4-12 weeks for tinnies & 2-12 months for glass boats. Then add the fact that you have to deal with between 5 to 10 manufacturers to put all of this together.

No one could have predicted the down turn we have just seen & no one can even tell you when it may end or how bad it is going to get. We did everything we could but it still hasn't been enough which is why we are consolidating. it means that some of our staff will loose their jobs but hopefully the ones that survive @ Broadwater boating centre will remain their for a long time.

We will be running a closing down sale until the end of December & all of our stock must be cleared. this will be a genuine offer & all goods will be sold with full warranties. We will also be making sure that all of our staff receive their full entitlements & will be offered positions where possible.

I have spoken with other Marine Dealers & yes they are all doing it tough. most of you on here either own a boat or go boating. If you want this industry to survive then i urge you to support your dealer.

[tigermullet]

Survey of Big Issues for 2009

Big Issues 2009 (facing world economic meltdown)
1: Hiring Quality Staff 63%
2: Slowing Economic Conditions 43%
3: Capital for Growth 30%
4: Managing Staff 30%

I can hardly believe that I just read that!

If that's their honest assessment then we are totally shagged and it's getting worse.

Managing staff 30% - dear oh dear, what have they been smoking?

Capital for growth also at just 30%.

Run for the hills. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.:P

[tigermullet]

Deadstick, I could agree with everything you have just said but this -
"No one could have predicted the down turn we have just seen & no one can even tell you when it may end or how bad it is going to get."

The predictions for this event have been made over and over for the last three years. Since June 2007 the month (and even the day) on which the sequence would commence has been splashed all over the Internet.

How else could I have known since 2007 that the October/November period in 2007would be the beginning of the end of the cycle?

October 1st 2008 has been 'out there' as the start of the second fall since March 2008.

What comes next? More fall off until the first week of December, then a rally until about February 2009.

Not that I'm betting on it because, just now, there is a significant danger period around the 21st November. That could be a 'game altering' show.

The exact dates of turning points are not all that important because the end result is certain. This is not a game of relative advantage any longer, it is one of financial survival.

Good luck to all.

[tin can marlin]

Well done for the manger of hinterland to come on. I would think that people are looking for value in there boats at the moment and products like haines hunter have priced themselves out of the market are hurting dealers etc.I think they will be better of with the valued based products they have at there other shop like allison. Anyway good luck and i hope it picks up for you.

[Mindi]

What I am worried about is that i see no evidence that we are at the worst of this yet. In Australia we have not yet seen the property price collapse which has accompanied US and UK experience and we probably will in 2009. If we get houses dropping in value below their debt burden as happened in US starting the subprime crisis we may still be to have our worst to come. I know that is an unwelcome thought but 2009 could be ugly for Australia with many more businesses closing and not through bad management, just that their business model cant operate with very low turnover. I hope I am totally wrong, and my sympathies to Hinterland and Satisfaction's operators who must be gutted.....and their staff.

[Mindi]

So the gone list is now

Mr Ts
NU-Marine
Sundown Marine
Westside Marine
Northside Marine (Gold Coast branch)
Avante Marine (Labrador branch)
Satisfaction Marine
Hinterland Marine (Gold Coast branch)

[PinHead]

of those that have closed, it would be interesting to see which (if any) were operating during the previous cresit squeeze..when was that? 1984 I think.not quite sure on that one.

[Noelm]

Amost all of what is said is true, but businesses do fail regularly for a variety of reasons, some bad management, some bad service, some under capitalised from the start, some due to influence way beyond anyones control, the place I worked when I left school (and did 2 10year plus stints) was started way back in the 1930's by a guy that saw a need for a service/product (what it was is a story in itself) but over the years the place changed and moved in different directions to maintain constant custom, we offered a range of services and products that over the period untill they sold out (the youngest son was almost 70 years old) it was still going strong, not too many family owned companies would still be going after such a huge time frame I would reckon, the owners philosphy was fairly simple really, NOTHING was on credit except the normal monthly invoice system from wholesalers, wages were paid in CASH, vehicles were purchsed when needed, paid for with CASH, no leasing!!plain and simple things like that, not everyones cup of tea, and probaly not really applicable in todays bussiness world (or is it?) but very sound principals and it worked for over 70 years

[Mtx]

I have an idea... Let's all speculate about why the business may have gone under without having any actual knowledge of the situation.

Also let's speculate on if the staff received entitlements or not.

Maybe as another train of thought, these were actually good business people and this is them going by their exit strategy to ensure all creditors get paid and also ensure all the staff get their entitlements.

Or we could just keep guessing.

[Noelm]

that's sort of what I was saying, businesses fail for all sorts of reasons, not just bad management, some even fail on purpose! so without knowing the ins and outs of it all, then we can only hope everyone gets what they are due!

[finding_time]

What I am worried about is that i see no evidence that we are at the worst of this yet. In Australia we have not yet seen the property price collapse which has accompanied US and UK experience and we probably will in 2009. If we get houses dropping in value below their debt burden as happened in US starting the subprime crisis we may still be to have our worst to come. I know that is an unwelcome thought but 2009 could be ugly for Australia with many more businesses closing and not through bad management, just that their business model cant operate with very low turnover. I hope I am totally wrong, and my sympathies to Hinterland and Satisfaction's operators who must be gutted.....and their staff.


Why will Aus experience a property collapse? Australia is a totally differant market to the US.;) For starters we dont have over 600 000 empty houses ,in fact if anything we have a housing shortage!

It is very very simplistic to compare Australia's domestic driven economy to that of the states and in fact according to many economists ,if the average australian just got on with life and stopped listening to the doom sayers much of the hardship could be avoided! I personally have just had the 2 busiest months of the last 3 years thing aren't that bad really! I do how ever believe that the service industrys will take a bit of a hit in the comming years and i do feel for any that have brought a mowing, cleaning, dog washing franshize as they will be hurting!

[Mindi]

Why will Aus experience a property collapse? Australia is a totally differant market to the US.;) For starters we dont have over 600 000 empty houses ,in fact if anything we have a housing shortage!

It is very very simplistic to compare Australia's domestic driven economy to that of the states and in fact according to many economists ,if the average australian just got on with life and stopped listening to the doom sayers much of the hardship could be avoided! I personally have just had the 2 busiest months of the last 3 years thing aren't that bad really! I do how ever believe that the service industrys will take a bit of a hit in the comming years and i do feel for any that have brought a mowing, cleaning, dog washing franshize as they will be hurting!

well.......OK

[Grand_Marlin]

Are you going to let your dog stink now Ian? ;D

cheers
pete

[PinHead]

I have an idea... Let's all speculate about why the business may have gone under without having any actual knowledge of the situation.

Also let's speculate on if the staff received entitlements or not.

Maybe as another train of thought, these were actually good business people and this is them going by their exit strategy to ensure all creditors get paid and also ensure all the staff get their entitlements.

Or we could just keep guessing.

why not play guesses...part of all the fun!!!!!!

[sid_fishes]

guys, when i made the 1st post, it wasnt so you could all go and play the guessing game,speculate about this and that. i was in fact stunned by what i had heard and seen , satisfaction where a great place, shit my boat was serviced there.like ian [finding time] said why do we all listen to what the states dictate.
cheers guys
sid

[OPTI]

So the gone list is now

Mr Ts
NU-Marine
Sundown Marine
Westside Marine
Northside Marine (Gold Coast branch)
Avante Marine (Labrador branch)
Satisfaction Marine
Hinterland Marine (Gold Coast branch)


i herd today leisure marine and currimbin tinnies are also now on the list .
not a good time to be a boat dealer or manufacturer for that matter ,even cobalt boats in the us went down just recently ,i think its only the tip of the ice berg unfortunatly

[seabug]

I was in Raymond Terrace (NSW)on Monday and was told that two boat retailers,in that general area, had closed in the last 2 weeks.
The reason being that the finance companies would no longer supply floor finance.

Rottten luck that immoral conduct in London and New York can ruin people.:'( :'(

Regards
seabug

[Knotpretty]

Very sad to here that another business is in trouble. I support my local marine shop every chance I get. The INTERNET may be cheaper (sometimes) but it does not give advice or service like your local shop. Wake up people and support local businesses not faceless websites.
To the thousands of members who were wondering what motor I re powered
MO JO with, wonder no more HP E-Tec from Ballina Marineland luv it and luv them.

[boatie_72]

i herd today leisure marine and currimbin tinnies are also now on the list .
not a good time to be a boat dealer or manufacturer for that matter ,even cobalt boats in the us went down just recently ,i think its only the tip of the ice berg unfortunatly


Where did you hear that, I know Currumbin Marine site which they are on is up for auction but i believe the business is find. Remember one must be careful of what they hear unless it has been confirmed by the company. Just ask TCM lol

[Jabba_]

Very sad to here that another business is in trouble. I support my local marine shop every chance I get. The INTERNET may be cheaper (sometimes) but it does not give advice or service like your local shop. Wake up people and support local businesses not faceless websites..
I agree 100%...
But some scabs are always about themselves for a lousy few hundred bucks.....

Buying of the Internet from over sea's will do Aussie's out of a job.... Support you local before it disappears

[tin can marlin]

Boate 72 is correct i went of a hear say and did not have the facts and i had egg on my face when gary from springwood come on and pointed out that they were fine etc. So if you are claming that the 2 dealers are gone back it up or shut up. These are tuff times and peoples jobs are being lost etc and chat on this site does not help if it is all negitve.

[lippa]

i know the car yards are finding it very tough atm. most had there floor plan with GE finance. GE want there money by christmas eve, which means they need to find new finaciers or go down too.
maybe some boat yards have there floor plan with GE too. maybe thats why all the rumours are floating? dunno, only a thought.

cheers

lippa

[Lovey80]

Why will Aus experience a property collapse? Australia is a totally differant market to the US.;) For starters we dont have over 600 000 empty houses ,in fact if anything we have a housing shortage!

It is very very simplistic to compare Australia's domestic driven economy to that of the states and in fact according to many economists ,if the average australian just got on with life and stopped listening to the doom sayers much of the hardship could be avoided! I personally have just had the 2 busiest months of the last 3 years thing aren't that bad really! I do how ever believe that the service industrys will take a bit of a hit in the comming years and i do feel for any that have brought a mowing, cleaning, dog washing franshize as they will be hurting!

I don't think we necessarily will see a colapse but I can think of a few reasons it will receed house prices that could have a similar effects just not on as large a scale.

Below are my thoughts on why we will see house prices receed.

1. Pretty much through the whole Howard Government era Ausralians have become use to credit for eveything. They all have to have that plasma, that new car, that what ever now! So what do they do? Get finance instead of saving for it. This is what drives inflation up and increases credit card debt.

2. With this economic boom that is ending now people didn't throw as much of those extra dollars into thier house loans as with most people the lifestyle went with the budget a the time. This is driving ever bigger record debt for houses.

3. Throughout the boom realestate agents helped drive house prices up and we the public ate it up hoping that the increase would continue. Some made a sh!te load of cash off (as investments) it, but the result was a huge ratio increase in property value versus rental income. (traditionaly ratio was .001% of house value as a rule) So a 400k house roughly rented for 400 a week. Not so now + House prices IMHO are 20-30% over priced. (try telling that to a realestate agent)

4. Australian banks whilst far more regulated than the US and don't have subprime problems. The credit crunch means they can't get the cheap money they were getting before. Hence why they recently have been screwing over thier customers and looking after the sharholders by holding back rate cuts.

At the end of the day if Australians all tightened thier belts and smashed everything they could into their homeloans and limmited credit card debt we would be fine. The government uses interest rates to keep control of inflation and sooner or later if the public keeps the spending spree going they have to keep the rates going up to stop it. That means less people can afford to own a home at the inflated house and interest rate prices and start getting out = lower house prices and people go back to living with mum and dad while the storms are here.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Sad to hear another boat dealer gone ;D

Cheers

Chris

[lee8sec]

i know the car yards are finding it very tough atm. most had there floor plan with GE finance. GE want there money by christmas eve, which means they need to find new finaciers or go down too.
maybe some boat yards have there floor plan with GE too. maybe thats why all the rumours are floating? dunno, only a thought.

cheers

lippa
GMAC & GE.

Some Suzuki motor cycle dealers are in the same boat (for want of a better description:-[ ) need to resecure finance for floor plan. Makes it hard when no one want to lend money. leigh
"
"GMAC, the finance arm of US car giant General Motors, provided finance to Holden, Subaru and Suzuki dealers. It is believed about 400 dealers will be affected by GMAC’s decision to cease retail and wholesale vehicle finance. "

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/lenders-to-the-motor-trade-shut-up-shop/2008/10/24/1224351544010.html

[trueblue]

I don't think we necessarily will see a colapse but I can think of a few reasons it will receed house prices that could have a similar effects just not on as large a scale.

Below are my thoughts on why we will see house prices receed.

1. Pretty much through the whole Howard Government era Ausralians have become use to credit for eveything. They all have to have that plasma, that new car, that what ever now! So what do they do? Get finance instead of saving for it. This is what drives inflation up and increases credit card debt.

2. With this economic boom that is ending now people didn't throw as much of those extra dollars into thier house loans as with most people the lifestyle went with the budget a the time. This is driving ever bigger record debt for houses.

3. Throughout the boom realestate agents helped drive house prices up and we the public ate it up hoping that the increase would continue. Some made a sh!te load of cash off (as investments) it, but the result was a huge ratio increase in property value versus rental income. (traditionaly ratio was .001% of house value as a rule) So a 400k house roughly rented for 400 a week. Not so now + House prices IMHO are 20-30% over priced. (try telling that to a realestate agent)

4. Australian banks whilst far more regulated than the US and don't have subprime problems. The credit crunch means they can't get the cheap money they were getting before. Hence why they recently have been screwing over thier customers and looking after the sharholders by holding back rate cuts.

At the end of the day if Australians all tightened thier belts and smashed everything they could into their homeloans and limmited credit card debt we would be fine. The government uses interest rates to keep control of inflation and sooner or later if the public keeps the spending spree going they have to keep the rates going up to stop it. That means less people can afford to own a home at the inflated house and interest rate prices and start getting out = lower house prices and people go back to living with mum and dad while the storms are here.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Sad to hear another boat dealer gone ;D

Cheers

Chris

good overview

[PinHead]

I agree 100%...
But some scabs are always about themselves for a lousy few hundred bucks.....

Buying of the Internet from over sea's will do Aussie's out of a job.... Support you local before it disappears


Maybe that few hundred bucks is not so lousy to a lot of people.

[tin can marlin]

Fair point pinhead but basicly i think jabba is saying if you are getting good service and they are local support them i think sometimes people get bad service in the marine game because half the time the dealer has not mad a fair profit.

[disorderly]

i think sometimes people get bad service in the marine game because half the time the dealer has not mad a fair profit.

So that's their excuse...??

There is no excuse for "bad service".

How do you know so much about marine dealers anyway TCM..?

[tin can marlin]

Iam happy to say that i'am good freinds with the boys at stones not that it is any of your business and i can tell you there work very hard for little return

[lippa]

a few hundred lousy?
i kinda lucky myself, i'm in a good postition, but i have some great friends that work hard, and havent made silly finacial decions. $20 is a massive amount of money to them.
if somthing you can be sourced from OS, or a website for a less, why not buy it?
the bloke down the marine shop/ bottle shop/ auto parts store/ whatever, isnt my friend, he doesnt come to my house for a bbq, i dont go to his. why should you be forced to pay considerably extra to support his business?
i know this may sound rough, but the bottom line is your own dollar is the most important.
how many people here have payed retail price for a new car?
you would dead set have to be a wood duck to do it.
you shop every dealer to the point there is bugger all margin left in the car, and why shouldn't you as the purchaser, strive for the best price possible?

service is an industry, you pay for it. dont expect the back up, buying the same product cheaper. but its the gamble alot of people will take, its human nature.

no one wants to see any business go down. some deserve it, some are a product of the enviroment there in. its unfortunate, but a fact of life.

lippa

[PinHead]

I thought you were mates with Kratzman or was it Crew Marine or the Cunningham guys..or once it was Marine Tune...damn hard to keep up with your best mates.

If you are working hard for very little return then I would suggest getting out of the industry..any industry if that is happening.

[Jabba_]

Maybe that few hundred bucks is not so lousy to a lot of people.
I assure you I am not cashed up with loads off money, I have not even been able to buy the new 406 epirb... A hundred buck is a lot off money for me, raising 2 kids, single income (The wife starts a new job next year, after 6 years off being a house wife.... Yippee), mortgage, and car loan, every dollar counts . Yet I will not buy a product out of the USA just to save some money, whether it be $100 or $1000... That is taking a knife to the neck off our boating and leisure industry

If you want to stop the boating shops from disappearing, start supporting them buy spending your money with them.....

[Jabba_]

a few hundred lousy?
i kinda lucky myself, i'm in a good postition, but i have some great friends that work hard, and havent made silly finacial decions. $20 is a massive amount of money to them.
if somthing you can be sourced from OS, or a website for a less, why not buy it?
the bloke down the marine shop/ bottle shop/ auto parts store/ whatever, isnt my friend, he doesnt come to my house for a bbq, i dont go to his. why should you be forced to pay considerably extra to support his business?
i know this may sound rough, but the bottom line is your own dollar is the most important.
So because he is not your mate, your prepared to send you money overseas where not even $1 is going to benefit the Australian economy, let alone the economy of the Australian boating sector..

how many people here have payed retail price for a new car?
you would dead set have to be a wood duck to do it.
you shop every dealer to the point there is bugger all margin left in the car, and why shouldn't you as the purchaser, strive for the best price possible?

service is an industry, you pay for it. dont expect the back up, buying the same product cheaper. but its the gamble alot of people will take, its human nature.

no one wants to see any business go down. some deserve it, some are a product of the enviroment there in. its unfortunate, but a fact of life.

lippa
I always negotiate to get the best deal for what ever I buy.. But the seller still make a profit and it is kept in Australia and pays the wages of an Australian.... How is that remotely simiar to sending 100% of your money overseas for the bennfit of another country...

[tin can marlin]

I agree whole heartly with jabba how does buying a big seaswirl from the states help aussie business and workers etc. I'am a worker but i also know without small business operators like marine dealers people don't have jobs. And lippa i'am sure if you were in your own business you would see it a different way. It is easy to sit there and say screw everyone till they bleed from the ar$e but if it keeps happening there will be be only a select few dealers left and then you will get the worst thing that can happen they will load up on us so basicly a happy medium is needed. A fair profit for the dealership and a good vaule deal for the customer with good service. I think that it is important we don't carry on like selfish little brats and take the line f#%k everyone else i only care about myself. Because it is just not the business owner that gets hurt it the battler who is cleaning the boats or the young guy trying to get a trade as a outboard mec and they all have car loans house rent etc. Regards Mark

[PinHead]

I agree whole heartly with jabba how does buying a big seaswirl (a)from the states help aussie business and workers etc. I'am a worker but i also know without small business operators like marine dealers people don't have jobs. And lippa i'am sure if you were in your own business (b)you would see it a different way. It is easy to sit there and say screw everyone till they bleed from the ar$e but if it keeps happening there will be be only a select few dealers left and then you will get the worst thing that can happen they will load up on us so basicly a happy medium is needed. A fair profit for the dealership and a good vaule deal for the customer (c) with good service. I think that it is important we don't carry on like selfish little brats and take the line f#%k everyone else i only care about myself. (d) Because it is just not the business owner that gets hurt it the battler who is cleaning the boats or the young guy trying to get a trade (e) as a outboard mec and they all have car loans house rent etc. Regards Mark

a) a big seaswirl..not likely..it is a small boat..only 18 1/2'.
b) Don't know about lippa, but i do own and run a small business and work anything from 60 hours a week upwards so i know a little about that.
c) you wonder why I bought an American built boat..simple..cos the good value deal was not available with the locally built boat I wanted.
d) show me how much you care..drop a couple of grand into my business..I won't complain.
e) I employ 2 apprentices and at times I wonder why with the crap and paperwork the Govt throws in the way.

In summary..I buy what I believe, gives me good value for money, and the service I am happy with. If that means buying an overseas made product then so be it. I have 3 cars..they are all made overseas also...but we have been over this all before.

The fact is: a person that starts a business takes a huge gamble..sometimes it pays off and others times it doesn't..a simple fact of life.
I am not going to run around and buy something that is not what I want and be stuffed around by salespeople that have no idea about service.

[Outsider1]

i herd today leisure marine and currimbin tinnies are also now on the list .
not a good time to be a boat dealer or manufacturer for that matter ,even cobalt boats in the us went down just recently ,i think its only the tip of the ice berg unfortunatly


Leisure Marine are still open and trading. Another bit of hearsay??

Dave

[tigermullet]

Now I feel like a real skin flint!. Forty odd years of boating and never once has a new boat or motor been purchased.

I always figured on letting some else pay the tax, dealer markup and a couple of years of depreciation before making a choice.

Very soon there will be a glut of boats on the market at unbelievable prices but, being satisfied with the larger boat and a 43 year old dinghy, I won't be taking advantage of the opportunity.

That opinion does not give me any satisfaction. Times are going to get much tougher and few of us will escape damage.

[webby]

Sometimes i wonder if some of you actually fish, but hang around like vultures waiting to pounce on someone or something thats having a hard time in this world of economic turmoil.
regards

[PinHead]

Sometimes i wonder if some of you actually fish, but hang around like vultures waiting to pounce on someone or something thats having a hard time in this world of economic turmoil.
regards

haven't been fishing for a while..but did bob around on south passage bar for a few hours yesterday

[tigermullet]

Fishing? What's that? Perhaps I'll find out on Tuesday when heading out for ten days or so.

That ought to shut me up and prevent pouncing on bad news rather than fish... or sand crabs.

However, this economic event is not passing without interest because the depth of the turn down is something that has not been seen since 1929-1931 or, perhaps, even 1873.

Witnessing the results of an unstable Bagehotian banking system coupled with lack of adequate regulation is something not to be missed. We are getting a lesson in systemic risk, the likes of which is rarely encountered.

Looked at with some detachment it is fascinating but many of us are aware of the costs borne by those already affected and most of us do feel sorry for those businesses that have been at the front of the storm.

Sorry for the Economics 101 - I will shut up and go to the boat.:P

[FNQCairns]

Fishing? What's that? Perhaps I'll find out on Tuesday when heading out for ten days or so.

That ought to shut me up and prevent pouncing on bad news rather than fish... or sand crabs.

However, this economic event is not passing without interest because the depth of the turn down is something that has not been seen since 1929-1931 or, perhaps, even 1873.

Witnessing the results of an unstable Bagehotian banking system coupled with lack of adequate regulation is something not to be missed. We are getting a lesson in systemic risk, the likes of which is rarely encountered.

Looked at with some detachment it is fascinating but many of us are aware of the costs borne by those already affected and most of us do feel sorry for those businesses that have been at the front of the storm.

Sorry for the Economics 101 - I will shut up and go to the boat.:P

You are allowed to - you got it right, I remember your predictions from a good while ago well before all this hit the experts on the square on the forehead, one of just two, forget who the other person on ausfish was...;D;D.

cheers fnq

[tigermullet]

Thanks FNQ - I didn't think that anyone would have noticed my ramblings.

Now, if I could get my wife to believe me (it hasn't been on TV yet) and start to stock up before the, almost inevitable, shortages I'd be rather happy.

How come your own family rarely believes forecasts made after a lot of study?

It's a mystery. But I guess they see all the indecision and demented ravings as well as the false calls.

[disorderly]

Yeah fella's I'm also one that,despite many of the positive outlooks of the ausfish economics buffs, thinks that things will get quite bad..:(

I've heard all the arguments why Australia shouldn't be so badly affected by a global downturn...but I think those that those who choose to believe that may be surprised over the next couple of years...

I 'd still like one of those umbrella's, please, Scott....if you have any spare..;)

[lee8sec]

I see that they are now saying in the USA ,it could be worse than the depression. I cant see how we will be missed, USA & the rest of the world dont buy, china dont make, we dont supply raw materials, we will be affected(worse luck). Just look at the banking & finance industry cut backs. Leigh

[Tangles]

Uhm, i dont think the worlds going to stop??? because if it is lucky i got a new reel:P sort of get the impression people are talking themselves into it..

[nigelr]

Uhm, i dont think the worlds going to stop??? because if it is lucky i got a new reel:P sort of get the impression people are talking themselves into it..

Tell that to the poor folk who will lose their jobs in the next few weeks/months.

[jimbo59]

A small war will fix everything...jim

[Mindi]

No thanks Jim....a small war wont do at all...easy to start but a real bugger to get out of it seems..?. Consumer confidence is what must be restored and confidence in the financial systems and and control of the vultures who circle in them...when people see governments tightening regulations on targetted financial systems and processes (ie...ban shorting on financial stocks etc..) then hopefully we will have a demand led recovery. Dont get hyped...this is not 1929/30..that's crap..there is not comparable mass unemployment but there is much pain for some unfortunate people. With unemployment levels around 5% we must hope most displaced workers will find something else.
I guess it keeps coming up here because boating is such a discretionary spend...and the industry has a significant excess of product choice and low margins..see car industry also. You dont see a 6 billion plan from Govt to support the boating industry over ten years...but you wouldnt..the employment levels are much too small. Better days ahead, and the well managed longer term businesses will hopefully pull through a bit scarred but OK.

[Noelm]

hhmm a "small" war, does that mean we only kill a few thousand people? or maybe just invade a "small" Country and massacre all the inhabitants? or perhaps we just bomb the sh!t out of somewhere for a "small" amount of time, yep, I can see how a war can fix everything!

[Noelm]

something that sort of has had my feeble mind puzzled, if almost every Country in the World is meeting and having "talks" on the financial crisis, then why don't we/they just do what we were doing before the crisis? like during the "boom" times (nothing to do with a war BOOM) it is not just us or the US of A it is almost the entire World that is in strife!

[Pobblebonk]

So... um... where are the fish biting again?

[finding_time]

Uhm, i dont think the worlds going to stop??? because if it is lucky i got a new reel:P sort of get the impression people are talking themselves into it..


Fully agree! I think if your a salary/ wage earner for government/ or a good business that will ride this out , this economic downturn/ recession is the best this that can happen to you , to start with by christmas you'll be paying alot less for your home loan, fuel is dropping in price and if you invest the saving of your home loan into the sharemarket atm you can buy at 2004 prices! If you playied it right you'll come out miles in front!

Who this whole thing does hurt is small business in the non essential ares and there staff , self funded retires,and it also hurts people that were planning to retire in the next few years as they'll have to delay those plans. Someones doom is always someone elses boom!

[lippa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lippa http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=929068#post929068)
a few hundred lousy?
i kinda lucky myself, i'm in a good postition, but i have some great friends that work hard, and havent made silly finacial decions. $20 is a massive amount of money to them.
if somthing you can be sourced from OS, or a website for a less, why not buy it?
the bloke down the marine shop/ bottle shop/ auto parts store/ whatever, isnt my friend, he doesnt come to my house for a bbq, i dont go to his. why should you be forced to pay considerably extra to support his business?
i know this may sound rough, but the bottom line is your own dollar is the most important.
So because he is not your mate, your prepared to send you money overseas where not even $1 is going to benefit the Australian economy, let alone the economy of the Australian boating sector..

how many people here have payed retail price for a new car?
you would dead set have to be a wood duck to do it.
you shop every dealer to the point there is bugger all margin left in the car, and why shouldn't you as the purchaser, strive for the best price possible?

service is an industry, you pay for it. dont expect the back up, buying the same product cheaper. but its the gamble alot of people will take, its human nature.

no one wants to see any business go down. some deserve it, some are a product of the enviroment there in. its unfortunate, but a fact of life.

lippa

I always negotiate to get the best deal for what ever I buy.. But the seller still make a profit and it is kept in Australia and pays the wages of an Australian.... How is that remotely simiar to sending 100% of your money overseas for the bennfit of another country...
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/report.php?p=929166)


who sends 100% of their money OS? i cerntanly don't.

in my business, i'm in competion with multi franchisee and internationaly owned companys. are you going to tell me that you would pay me, an extra $200 to fix your car, when you will get the same job done, to the same exceptional level, that the big guys do? i doubt it very much.

i support australian busnisses where ever i can, but my family and their needs come first, i'd rather put the extra $$$$ into my sons future schooling than to prop up another business.
am i a bad person for wanting the very best for MY family???


your last comment makes no sense, perhaps you would like to clarify?

[lippa]

I agree whole heartly with jabba how does buying a big seaswirl from the states help aussie business and workers etc. I'am a worker but i also know without small business operators like marine dealers people don't have jobs. And lippa i'am sure if you were in your own business you would see it a different way. It is easy to sit there and say screw everyone till they bleed from the ar$e but if it keeps happening there will be be only a select few dealers left and then you will get the worst thing that can happen they will load up on us so basicly a happy medium is needed. A fair profit for the dealership and a good vaule deal for the customer with good service. I think that it is important we don't carry on like selfish little brats and take the line f#%k everyone else i only care about myself. Because it is just not the business owner that gets hurt it the battler who is cleaning the boats or the young guy trying to get a trade as a outboard mec and they all have car loans house rent etc. Regards Mark


talk about egg on face TCM

what gives you the right to speculate about my particular circumstance on a public forum?????

YOU HAVE COCKED UP BEFORE AND JUST DONE IT AGAIN.

did you not learn anything from you debarcle over the springwood saga?
maybe they should have followed with legal advice, you obviously still need to learn the lesson.

And for your information ( it seems you need to know everything) i own a small company repairing motor cars.
i'm continually manageing profit margins to suit the busniees climate i'm in.
if i dont, i'll go broke too.
i'm continually undercut by competitors, who want my work.
i deal with this on a daily basis, after all my customers want the best prices too.

i put thousands and thousands of dollars into the australian economy, employ australians, and support australian business's, you and ol jabba there should check fact, before mouthing off.

i might just leave this one here, before i get really pissed off.

regards

lippa

[PinHead]

talk about egg on face TCM

what gives you the right to speculate about my particular circumstance on a public forum?????

YOU HAVE COCKED UP BEFORE AND JUST DONE IT AGAIN.

did you not learn anything from you debarcle over the springwood saga?
maybe they should have followed with legal advice, you obviously still need to learn the lesson.

And for your information ( it seems you need to know everything) i own a small company repairing motor cars.
i'm continually manageing profit margins to suit the busniees climate i'm in.
if i dont, i'll go broke too.
i'm continually undercut by competitors, who want my work.
i deal with this on a daily basis, after all my customers want the best prices too.

i put thousands and thousands of dollars into the australian economy, employ australians, and support australian business's, you and ol jabba there should check fact, before mouthing off.

i might just leave this one here, before i get really pissed off.

regards

lippa

go on..do it..launch into a tirade..vent your spleen..get it off your chest..LOL

[BAT]

go on..do it..launch into a tirade..vent your spleen..get it off your chest..LOL

"Dito" go on do it Pinhead can you finally give someone a Thanks or is that ivory tower of your's on pluto?.

Cheer's BAT.

[PinHead]

"Dito" go on do it Pinhead can you finally give someone a Thanks or is that ivory tower of your's on pluto?.

Cheer's BAT.


what are you on about ????

[tae4551]

Sunstate marine in caloundra also went ass up last week. everything has gone already

[jimbo59]

I tell ya what those that can stick it out will reap the rewards when this whole damn thing blows over, just kidding on a little war too:D

[tin can marlin]

I think that is a issue jimbo if there is no one left it will create a market of high margins etc which is not good for us the paying public a 2 way street is what is needed.

[FNQCairns]

I tell ya what those that can stick it out will reap the rewards when this whole damn thing blows over, just kidding on a little war too:D

He he, for a moment there I thought you were talking about this thread:D

[Mindi]

Sunstate marine in caloundra also went ass up last week. everything has gone already

Is that the Suzuki/Bluefin place..?

[kevy]

well said sleepygreg, you are so dead right.

[kevy]

hi sleepygreg, you are so right in what you say, i seem to think that pinhead is having a slight go at you.

[PinHead]

hi sleepygreg, you are so right in what you say, i seem to think that pinhead is having a slight go at you.

ya really think so ???? In fact, I wasn't.

[finga]

Gees Ian look at what you've started.....http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/blink.gif

If the future outlook of the financial world is all doom and gloom then why are the Australian banks making record profits??
Why don't they pass on interest cuts?? What's the point of interest cuts if they're not passed on???

As for businesses....When I was a young fella my pop taught me to start out small and work your way up the food chain and that's what I did. I worked for myself after my normal paid job to build up my sparky business.
Profits went back into buying more gear and equipement.
After not long I had everything I needed.
I never had an overdraft or any leases.
I grew to where I had 5 contractors working for me off and on.
Worked well too.

Now-a-days people simply go and borrow a motza to buy a franchise or open a business and, in my opinion, they're behind the 8 ball to start with.
Factor in a slight downturn and the damage is done. The loans have to be repaid where as I could just take a truck off the road and park it in the shed with no worries. It'l start again when the need arises.

I buy off shore.
Why???
Because I'm now piss poor and when I can get twice as much for my buck I'll do it. That's why.
If you don't like it then tough noogies.
Does anybody want to give me the difference?? If so then I'll buy here.

Now....does anybody know the number for the Hummer dealer??
Or should I go and buy another house or two??
Raby Bay is cheap now. A house on the water went for less then $1,000,000 last week. I might just wait another month or two and get one there http://www.smileyhut.com/thumb/thumbsupup.gif

[FNQCairns]

About the banks I think it's getting interesting, no one guarantees bank deposits if the tower that holds them can weather any storm, simply not needed, Macquarie bank, Citibank, what's up with them in this country....NatOz bank sold a bucketload of shares at a 10% discount under the already quite low for modern history share price if I am correct...what's up with that also:-/, it's not the teller that makes a decision like that:o

As a nation we are good at holding up a con job as true right to the end and then a little beyond till everyone forgets as they are too busy dealing with the aftermath...interesting times ahead...possibly.

cheers fnq

[mod5]

Now....does anybody know the number for the Hummer dealer??


Here ya go. Was in there the other day ;)

HUMMER
Ph: (07) 3877 0000
Fax: (07) 3877 0130
gravatt@zupps.com.au

[Donny Boy]

Hummer ????

Nah......get a Patrol.

[tin can marlin]

For fellow members info i'am sure the auction is to be held on the 3rd of dec.

[TimiBoy]

Hummer ????

Nah......get a Patrol.

I used to Patrol but now I cruise.

195 Kw, 650 Nm.

As if you wouldn't!!!

Cheers,

Tim

[finding_time]

I used to Patrol but now I cruise.

195 Kw, 650 Nm.

As if you wouldn't!!!

Cheers,

Tim


200 series deisel right? Definately a sweet ride, but i have one question . Is yours using oil? i have now heard of 3 new 200 series deisels that are using oil at an alarming rate! One of them is close to using 1L per 1000km's Huston i think we have a problem!


Ian

[ozbee]

add another one to your list

[finding_time]

add another one to your list

How much is yours using Ozbee? A mates quite concerned as Toyota is not that forth comming with an awnser!

[TimiBoy]

Mine used about 100 ml in the first 1000, now has 3000km, no appreciable use. Toyota changed the oil type and it got a whole lot better. Thus sayeth the Land Cruiser owners website...

Cheers,

Tim

[White Pointer]

Fishing? What's that? Perhaps I'll find out on Tuesday when heading out for ten days or so.

That ought to shut me up and prevent pouncing on bad news rather than fish... or sand crabs.

However, this economic event is not passing without interest because the depth of the turn down is something that has not been seen since 1929-1931 or, perhaps, even 1873.

Witnessing the results of an unstable Bagehotian banking system coupled with lack of adequate regulation is something not to be missed. We are getting a lesson in systemic risk, the likes of which is rarely encountered.

Looked at with some detachment it is fascinating but many of us are aware of the costs borne by those already affected and most of us do feel sorry for those businesses that have been at the front of the storm.

Sorry for the Economics 101 - I will shut up and go to the boat.:P


G'day,

Actually, what we are seeing in markets now did not happen in the depression. It has happened twice - during WW1 and again in WW2. Back then it took massive conflict and the diversion of the world's resources to a wholly destructive process.

This time round it only took the world's bankers and their auditors.

Accountants have a lot to account for.

White Pointer

[webby]

Sounds like their running two strokes in the new cruisers;D

[Fido]

I am in Real esate at Raby Bay. Would you mind telling me which house sold for less than a million and also where you are getting the other two for less than a million. Because if you can advise which ones they are I am sure I can get the vendors more. All the houses that I have seen selling in the last month are all starting from $1,150,000.

[TimiBoy]

I am in Real esate at Raby Bay. Would you mind telling me which house sold for less than a million and also where you are getting the other two for less than a million. Because if you can advise which ones they are I am sure I can get the vendors more. All the houses that I have seen selling in the last month are all starting from $1,150,000.

How much will that vacant block sell for? I saw it in a window the other day - damn, wouldn't mind buying it in a couple of years.

Cheers,

Tim

[finga]

I am in Real esate at Raby Bay. Would you mind telling me which house sold for less than a million and also where you are getting the other two for less than a million. Because if you can advise which ones they are I am sure I can get the vendors more. All the houses that I have seen selling in the last month are all starting from $1,150,000.
Word of mouth from 3 separate Raby Bay residences.
If one went for less then the mill then I'm sure some more are to follow.
I think it was an auction.

[boatboy50]

add another one to your list

This is a useless post without some information. Care to elaborate? Or is it more rumour and innuendo not backed up with fact? Maybe you should talk to TCM and see where that got him?

Regards

Darren

[TimiBoy]

How much is yours using Ozbee? A mates quite concerned as Toyota is not that forth comming with an awnser!

You should let your Mate know about the LCOOL forum. Some totally obsessed folks have all the info on the 200 series, and any other Cruiser, for that matter...

http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3633
Topic is about an "oil register" which Toyota have set up to monitor the issue.

Cheers,

Tim

[Mindi]

add another one to your list


Another what..?

[Jabba_]

Another what..?
Another 200 series Cruiser, turbo diesel....

[whichway]

Wow

Four simultaneous topics

1. Boatyards going bust

2. Economic theory (quite independent of topic 1 now)

3. Oil consumption in 200 series landcruisers (which really has nothing at all to do with boatyards going bust)

4. Real estate values in Raby Bay

I think we could run at least another two topics to this thread before the whole thing crashes in confusion

Suggestions -

Plateys vs Fibreglass

Four strokes vs Two Strokes

Come on people - you're just not trying

Whichway

[finga]

What about good old stinky bait versus the plastic fantastic gunk???

[Fido]

You are correct.

But it starts off as :
I heard
Then it comes as:
Innuendo
I think , because they have no proof because and when challenged to support they shrink away.
To the business:
These people have feelings and sure things are tough out there. Business fail for reasons a lot of time out of their control.
It's ironic but the criticism often levied on this site against them is that they are expected to sell goods for basiscally little profit.

[Grand_Marlin]

It's ironic but the criticism often levied on this site against them is that they are expected to sell goods for basiscally little profit.

And the real irony comes at Auction time.

People queue in the hundreds to buy things at more than retail price :o

A business going under is sort of like a death in someones family ... it doesn't hurt to show a little respect.

Cheers

Pete

[FNQCairns]

And the real irony comes at Auction time.

People queue in the hundreds to buy things at more than retail price :o

A business going under is sort of like a death in someones family ... it doesn't hurt to show a little respect.

Cheers

Pete

MMmmmm, the family dog possibly....

cheers fnq

[whichway]

Back to the original topic

There are businesses and businesses.

In some, you get an order, buy and install the gear, send in the bill and hopefull get paid. This is relatively straightforward, yet can be hard enough to keep ahead of the cash flow.

In others (including boat and car dealerships) as I understand it, the dealer often (though not always) has to order the boat / car or whatever, have it in the yard so that they have something to show the punters, and then hopefully sell it. There is not the certainty of cashflow that applies to the more straightforward business above.

So, following the logic the has been presented by some in this thread, boat / car dealerships are not a good business, so get out of that business and into something with a better business plan, better cashflow etc.

Can anyone see a problem if all of the boat dealerships work this out and close down? Or maybe only the smart ones will work this out, and we will be left with the shonky operators.

Bottom line I think is that we should not complain about low quality, poor service etc, this is a consequence of an imperfect market at work. The problem is that there is no information on the quality of a particular operation so they are compared on price alone. Solution - Maybe the web will eventually work out how to provide accurate feedback on the experience in dealing with particular firms, so that punters can make an assessment of whether to deal with the low cost / low service operators.

There isn't much evidence of accurate information of this type on the net at the moment, with the notable exception of ebay which allows buyers to rate sellers.

My five cents worth.

Whichway

[boatboy50]

Hey Guys,

Found an ad in todays paper for an upcoming auction.

Springwood Marine Gold Coast is also to close apparently, and the auction will be held before Christmas. I don't know where this places Springwood Marine in general?

Times are very tough.

Regards

Darren

[bluefin59]

Well IF and i mean IF this is the case maybe tin can marlin might have been right in a way ,funny how the wheel turns and the rumors end up true ,maybe a case of where their is smoke there is fire . Hope not for the sake of the boating industry..matt

[OPTI]

yes will be interesting to see what cat caddy has to say now

[disorderly]

A business going under is sort of like a death in someones family ... it doesn't hurt to show a little respect.

Cheers

Pete


MMmmmm, the family dog possibly....

cheers fnq

Your a heartless soul indeed FNQ.....when it comes to money or business I'd hardly equate the demise of it to more than the death of a pet hamster..or perhaps a white mouse...::););D..............any other bidders???:P

[robersl]

Wow

Four simultaneous topics

1. Boatyards going bust

2. Economic theory (quite independent of topic 1 now)

3. Oil consumption in 200 series landcruisers (which really has nothing at all to do with boatyards going bust)

4. Real estate values in Raby Bay

I think we could run at least another two topics to this thread before the whole thing crashes in confusion

Suggestions -

Plateys vs Fibreglass

Four strokes vs Two Strokes

Come on people - you're just not trying

Whichway

Hey don't just pick on the 4 stroke and 2 strokes what about the E'Tec's they will feel left out if you don't mention them; but at this time of night they all will be tucked up in bed with there owners lol
shane

[boatboy50]

Hey,

There is no if it is true, it is an advertisement in todays paper stating they are closing down.

It's a rumour I had heard over a month ago but was today confirmed.

Regards

Darren