cats

[sid_fishes]

since i joined ausfish, i have heard all the banter about cats , their ability etc. shark cat this ,kevlacat that, noosa cat, the list goes on. but of late , after working on deans 5.2 kc i have grown to like the layout, but as yet i have not fished out of her[ my day will come but]. so my question is why did kevlacat stop making this size cat? where are the moulds ? and why dont they bring it back into production.
i dont want to start a shitfight, i,m over that
but would like to know why they stopped making them.
and why they dont think about making them again in this day of fuel prices
cheers guys
sid

[OPTI]

they do make them,they released a new version about 2 years ago,check thier web site.::)

[finding_time]

I think they toyed with the idea for a while but the 5.2 (1900) is just far to popular

Ian

[troy]

I do not want to start a war on cats or monos but what i cannot figure out is why there is not many cats up north compared with down south.
Is it lack of dealerships up here the reason or does different sea conditions play a role.
Again i stress not knocking cats just curious.
Troy

[TheRealAndy]

I do not want to start a war on cats or monos but what i cannot figure out is why there is not many cats up north compared with down south.
Is it lack of dealerships up here the reason or does different sea conditions play a role.
Again i stress not knocking cats just curious.
Troy

Its probably a lack of dealers, which may be due to a lack of popularatiy for one reason or another. There seems to be a common misconception down here in SEQ that cat's are safer. Infact they are no more or less safe than a mono. Maybe the myth up north is that they are unsafe?

[finding_time]

Its probably a lack of dealers, which may be due to a lack of popularatiy for one reason or another. There seems to be a common misconception down here in SEQ that cat's are safer. Infact they are no more or less safe than a mono. Maybe the myth up north is that they are unsafe?


Agree!;)

Cats are no safer than any mono with a self draining deck , many individually sealed compartments under the floor , twin engines with separate fuel supply infact a mono with all these may be a little safer( the lean still gets to me occasionally:o ) But a mono of equilivent size will ride no where near as well as a cat in any sea ,tasman and coral included!;)

Troy

mate a cat would eat up nq conditions, maybe there just not popular up there, Grand marlins brother has a cat and he's in Cairns so there is at least one up there!

ian

[Grand_Marlin]

I am slowly getting them up north ;D

Watch out Troy ... I am coming for you :o :alien: :o

The common perception up north is "you just dont need them" in the somewhat sheltered waters.

I know of a number of cats up that way, but certainly not as many as SEQ and further south.

Anyone remember the movie - last of the mohicans? (story about unsuccessfully trying to take religion to primitive natives)

I guess it is the same thing with the cats and NQ residents ;D

My brother has a 5m Sharkcat Sportsman with twin 60 4 stroke yammies.
He regularly fishes in company of a Haines 19C and a 6+m Plate boat (not sure if it was a bar crusher or a trail craft)
Anyway ... it got up to 25kts the othe rweek when they were out, so the decided to run for home (15 miles)
Jamie had the Cat loaded on the trailer and waiting in the carpark when the other two arrived.

Cheers

Pete

[ozbee]

the problem with cats from Bowen up is that the sea is not as favourable to them.if you look at a map the Queensland coast starts to slope back. this has the effect of allowing a se swell which is no problem to a cat if that all there is.in summer most winds become north to north easter in the afternoon.both blow strong enough to influence each other causing a very short chop so bad as you place the nose at the next wave which is quite often only 10 ft away it will fall away completely under you on one side of a cat. just remember a vee nose will also belt the cripes out of you but does give a more sure feeling of correction. in sense you very much get the effect of one hull falling and the other rising at the same time than as little as ten feet have the opposite happen. last weekend i went out in my patriot and the sea was only 1.2 but blowing from two direction ne and se . mate i had the shit belted out of me in the morning it blew up to a 20 knt se . the sea was as high as a house yet it was a far better ride home as you were knot fighting a sea coming from two directions.look i have a very high opinion of cats and use to go out in a 18 ft shark cat and i must admit he rode some large seas but it always had to be on the guard in a se/ne chop as one side fell down on a wave more so because it dropped out under him on one side and rose on the other and hopefully not have the crest come over the nose. i would imagine in the 30 ft length a cat would be long enough to bridge 3 short chops and be a very sweet machine up here.im sure there's places in Australia where shark cats rule as i would expect there to be but in this small area of queensland they dont. some tried hydrofields to try and get the best of both but they have fizzled out

[FNQCairns]

the problem with cats from Bowen up is that the sea is not as favourable to them.if you look at a map the Queensland coast starts to slope back. this has the effect of allowing a se swell which is no problem to a cat if that all there is.in summer most winds become north to north easter in the afternoon.both blow strong enough to influence each other causing a very short chop so bad as you place the nose at the next wave which is quite often only 10 ft away it will fall away completely under you on one side of a cat. just remember a vee nose will also belt the cripes out of you but does give a more sure feeling of correction. in sense you very much get the effect of one hull falling and the other rising at the same time than as little as ten feet have the opposite happen. last weekend i went out in my patriot and the sea was only 1.2 but blowing from two direction ne and se . mate i had the shit belted out of me in the morning it blew up to a 20 knt se . the sea was as high as a house yet it was a far better ride home as you were knot fighting a sea coming from two directions.look i have a very high opinion of cats and use to go out in a 18 ft shark cat and i must admit he rode some large seas but it always had to be on the guard in a se/ne chop as one side fell down on a wave more so because it dropped out under him on one side and rose on the other and hopefully not have the crest come over the nose. i would imagine in the 30 ft length a cat would be long enough to bridge 3 short chops and be a very sweet machine up here.im sure there's places in Australia where shark cats rule as i would expect there to be but in this small area of queensland they dont. some tried hydrofields to try and get the best of both but they have fizzled out


Yeah I think this also, a bloke I know who had his KC for many years down south moved up here and sold it 6 months later for a plate boat of 6.5m. He told me the cat was the best boat he ever owned but was caught off guard using it up here too many times V almost never down south, when the conditions where bad inside he would travel the ocean (outside the reef) until his plan of attack to port was more to his liking. He didn't feel the need do this with the plate boat, now he is even further south than before...bet he wants his KC back.

I an not very experienced in cats but I suspect that if they didn't a narrow range of speed to get good travelling performance they would suit up here a little better.

And besides Finding time once said that they are not much better than a run of the mill pressed 5m tiny..forget now the total context;);D.

cheers fnq

[finding_time]

Ozbee

Mate having just read your post for the 4th time ( i really wanted to understand your thinking) i cant really see where your comming from. Imho it when you get the sea comming from many directions that cats come into there own, yes they drop into those hole and i do mean drop but trim takes care of that without a real problem, but you must ajust your trim regularly! Believe it or not we get nth/ne down here as well and confused seas are not at all uncommon, i would find it very hard to think of a more confusd sea situation than rounding Cape Moreton on a run out tide with a good SE blowing . The swells standing up because of the run you have refracted wave going in every bloody direction it's ugly. i have never been in a small boat that handles that aswell as a cat.

If you can get 10 degrees of a sea you'll chew it up but dont think running into a sea is totally bad you still are going ok just not as good as just off it!


Ian

[ozbee]

trim wont hold when the wave falls out under you this is whats the difference up here yes i have tabs but you still can get caught dont worry my haines will rattle my teeth out as she falls not straight up. remember the GBR cuts our swells so they are real short(nobody surfs up here) then put a wave running across the swell so you see some will fall with the swell some will fall behind the swell overall it really plain luck what you get cause they are so close you cant steer to miss them. its that scare of one side dropping that puts people off. look when fishing out the reef would love to be in a shark cat i get so sick of rolling like a drum in the haines. look when i purchased my patriot i looked very carefully at shark cats i saw so
much more room in them but kept getting worried about there history up here and sure enough that 23 footer in Townsville filled up in basic 1.2 mtr crazy chop we get up here.look image driving over a swell then look at a hand full of marbles dropped on the floor lay the marbles bouncing over the waves so you have short sharp rises and short holes in the swell.look im not against cats but like fnq said most seem to sell them and change to a basic v cause of this scare they seem to get sooner or later. there is a few around and probably in the hands of a very experienced person it may be fine but saying that there is not a lot you can do but to try and set a line and cop what's coming as the waves are just to close together. it great country to spin the guts out of a prop cause sometimes it will fall out in nose sometimes the back or rise on one side and fall on the other.

from Mackay south cats become a lot popular you can see the difference in the sea from the shore. if you could have your cat three times the width i think you would be on a winner.

[troy]

I am slowly getting them up north ;D

Watch out Troy ... I am coming for you :o :alien: :o

The common perception up north is "you just dont need them" in the somewhat sheltered waters.

I know of a number of cats up that way, but certainly not as many as SEQ and further south.

Anyone remember the movie - last of the mohicans? (story about unsuccessfully trying to take religion to primitive natives)

I guess it is the same thing with the cats and NQ residents ;D

My brother has a 5m Sharkcat Sportsman with twin 60 4 stroke yammies.
He regularly fishes in company of a Haines 19C and a 6+m Plate boat (not sure if it was a bar crusher or a trail craft)
Anyway ... it got up to 25kts the othe rweek when they were out, so the decided to run for home (15 miles)
Jamie had the Cat loaded on the trailer and waiting in the carpark when the other two arrived.

Cheers

Pete
Pete you keep making these promisces and i am still waiting.:D ;)
Troy

[finding_time]

Ozbee

Mate when a cat falls into a hole it doesn't land hard on a big flat surface like a mono, yes it will lean but hull shape , chines and foward momentum will bring it back up. We get a similar sea in moreton bay when it's windy and tide is against you, big holes form, the waves are very short and steep. Is this what your talking about? I've spent a fair bit of time in boats up that way and cant say i've noticed anything that rare in ocean conditions that i haven't seen anywhere before. Have you spent much time in a cat? There very differant , trim doesn't work in a cat the same way as a mono, your actually using one hull to keep the other in position not just as a balance on a keel aka trim tabs on a mono, very differant and quite unnerving at first!

I would be interested to get pete's perspective on this, he's spent more time in cats than me.

ian

[Dean1]

Well since my name and boat was mentioned id better make a comment ;D Cant say ive heard about the sea that Ozbee is quoting. Maybe it does exist. Like Ian has stated cats work totally different to monos. Its amazing what 'triming your cat' can do in different situations. I know ive had one motor trimmed completely in and the other right out to compensate for the conditions at times. The trimmed in motor is obviously driving the opposite hull into the sea and the motor trimmed out is forcing up the opposite hull for the mono boys who dont understand the concept. The 5.2 kc's are so trim sensitive that you can really feel it working when in those conditions, well if you just drove it and diferent trim as required things could get messy :o Hey Ian (sid fishes) i havent forgotten about you mate ;)

[finding_time]

trim wont hold when the wave falls out under you this is whats the difference up here yes i have tabs but you still can get caught dont worry my haines will rattle my teeth out as she falls not straight up.

this is the part i was refering to ozbee, on a cat trim will and does to a certain extent keep you from falling into that hole even if the sea does disappear being a short sharp chop will only help because the hole wont be very wide and you'll kind of bridge it! Does that make sense? hard to explain!:-[

[dfox]

There is a few cats in my neck of the woods at kurrimine beach (innisfail). I know of 2 shark cats, at least 3 borger's, the nu star i worked on, and 2 dominators. I think there is a cairns custom craft as well. Not heaps i know but its still alot for such a small town.
Not the best pics but the first is an early model shark cat, borger cat, nu star, dominator ... foxy

[finding_time]

Ok Dave

You are just the man for this discussion!! (sorry to drag you in) But have spent more than most in a cat and plenty of time in that famous 2 foot chop what's your opinion, is it unsuitable for cats nth of Mackay?

[Daamu]

Just a question to all those cat lovers out there. When traversing in big seas how does the boat react if you have to go side on to the waves whether on purpose or not? I know that with the mono when the wave goes under the boat you roll a bit but it still feels safe, can the cats do this safely? In NQ we get these conditions whether coming out from behind an Island or just trying to get home. I was under the impression that the would tip in these conditions. Just so you know I don't own or have never been in a smaller cat.
Cheers

Dale

[Dean1]

Just a question to all those cat lovers out there. When traversing in big seas how does the boat react if you have to go side on to the waves whether on purpose or not? I know that with the mono when the wave goes under the boat you roll a bit but it still feels safe, can the cats do this safely? In NQ we get these conditions whether coming out from behind an Island or just trying to get home. I was under the impression that the would tip in these conditions. Just so you know I don't own or have never been in a smaller cat.
Cheers

Dale Hi Dale, mate cats dont just tip over as easy as everybody thinks. Well ive never heard of a kevlacat tipping over. Ive had mine up on one hull thats for sure but its a long way off tipping. The secret is keep powering on and not back off. The side of the hull actually forces the boat back to level as the water skims the side if its taken this far over if this makes sense!

[sid_fishes]

this is great guys. its great to get to know the difference between cats and mono,s withouth the hype, and i woud like it to stay that way. dean ,mate i know you wont forget hey, we just need to find the right time that suits us both. cheers to all and thanks
ian [sid]

[dfox]

Ok Dave

You are just the man for this discussion!! (sorry to drag you in) But have spent more than most in a cat and plenty of time in that famous 2 foot chop what's your opinion, is it unsuitable for cats nth of Mackay?

Ian, it doesnt matter where you go, the sea's can be down right awfull. Once your outside the reef theres little difference up north to ocean conditions off brissy. There is one big advantage having the barrier reef in the north, if the wind and seas come up its possiable to get in behind the reef and sit it out.
As for a cats performance in these inner reef waters? Well from my experiences and lets just say ive had some interesting moments, id back a cat any day. Crap seas south or north make little difference. Ive spent many hours skippering glass and plate monos both large and small as well as a number of cats in the north. All had there good a bad points in the seas we used them in.
Your cat would excell in the inner reef waters just as well as it does in moreton bay, 1770, murphy's or any number of SE waters. Its all the same, drive to the conditions.
Basically an experienced cat driver will find a 2 foot moreton bay chop the same to drive in as a NQ 2 foot chop.
Other boats ive owned and used both up north and down south are 6 & 7 meter plate boats and a 7 meter cat.
Heres a few boats (pics) ive fished with, first is a 32 foot platey single V8 diesel, second is a 30 foot fisher twin diesels, both had there good and bad points.
Third is a 32 foot nu star cat, and me ;D...foxy

[Grand_Marlin]

Yeah Ian,

There is absolutely no problem with cats in that environment.

As I said before - My brothers 5m Sharkcat is outperforming much bigger monos in exactly the conditions Ozbee is referring to (I wonder who taught him how to drive the Cat ;D

I had a 6.2m Kevlacat in Cairns - again no problems.

It all comes down to how you are driving it.

Once you learn how to trim, keep the power on and what are your best running angles then you wont have any dramas.

There seems to be heaps of cat owners / passengers who try to drive them like a monohull, and it just doesn't get the best out of a cat.

When you think you should be backing off ... add some more power by being agressive on the throttles and you will be amazed by the performance.


Cheers

Pete

[finding_time]

Thanks Dave

Kind of what i figured!;)





Yeah Ian,

When you think you should be backing off ... add some more power by being agressive on the throttles and you will be amazed by the performance.


Cheers

Pete

Fully agree with this Pete,but you forgot one thing and that's ear plugs !;) The screams from the crew more used to mono's gets distracting at times!!!;D



Ian

[TheRealAndy]

Hi Dale, mate cats dont just tip over as easy as everybody thinks. Well ive never heard of a kevlacat tipping over. Ive had mine up on one hull thats for sure but its a long way off tipping. The secret is keep powering on and not back off. The side of the hull actually forces the boat back to level as the water skims the side if its taken this far over if this makes sense!

Mate, cats tip over just as easy as mono's. A skilled driver of each boat will dictate the outcome. One thing is for sure, once overturned a mono is a lot easier to retreive than a cat.

Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic, the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's. It is not possible to make a self righting cat. In saying that, if I were to weigh up the pro's and con's I would choose the cat based on stablity at rest. If anyone has ever compared sleeping on a cat V a mono then the cat wins hands down.

[sharkcat one]

i fished the bowen clasic this year in my 6.2 m commander cat
wind picked up as did the sea , the cat went very well and gave us a smooth ride
had a 7m haines sit on my tail on the way back one afternoon , he lasted about
half an hour before dropping back further and further. luv the cats , you just need to learn how to drive them .

[Noelm]

not too sure what all the fuss is about when side to a sea in a Cat, I would be thinking that side on Cats are at their best, been in hundreds of different Monos, big and small, and a heap of cats, would rather be in a Cat side on any day!! side on and with the sea, I doubt (given adequate HP) there would be a Mono made that will be on a par with a good Cat, end of story, now trolling into a steep chop is a completelly different kettle of fish, a good Mono will shine there, but at Anchor, give me the stability of a Cat, except for a 50 footer, there is no mono made that is as stable, never will be! but to each their own I guess, what's one mans joy is anothers misery, just like Ford and Holden, 2 strokes and 4 strokes, it never ends, but those who put forward opinions on hearsay and without a lot of personal comparisons or just farting into the wind!

[ozbee]

the Burdekin has one of the highest number of boat registrations per person in the world and you could count the number of cats on your hands . yes i know you trim to hold one side up but what happens when the down is on the other side three seconds later. look there will always be cats and i would love one in the 30 ft range for here . the simple fact is the majority of people around here wont touch them and also most dealerships will warn you against them here cause they have a reputation of not suiting this part of the coast. most yards up here wont take them as trade ins there not interested honestly i dont know of a yard from home hill to ingham that actually have one. there is a few around cairns but the coast straightens up so they may be more popular. one of the fastest richest towns growing is townsville and you can count the number of cats on your hands compared to the 100,000 v nose. this is just the way it is . are they all wrong i leave that to you.ive tried to explain the difference in seas up here and ive failed its not the size but the forending up and down with in a s shaped swell even bouncing up on one side in the trough. look ive broken my pedestral seats , live kill tank hinges bait board ,spare motor bracket, smashed bilge pump bracket rocket launcher so i am definately not saying the v nose is best as i broke all of these in 1.2 mtr
.

[finding_time]

. look ive broken my pedestral seats , live kill tank hinges bait board ,spare motor bracket, smashed bilge pump bracket rocket launcher so i am definately not saying the v nose is best as i broke all of these in 1.2 mtr
.

Ozbee

All these broken parts from slamming !!!:o You need a cat mate!!!;) It will solve all your problems!:D

It sounds like most people up there have been talked out of a cat before they have even tried one!;)


Ian

Ps

Next october i'm reasonably likely to have mine up there , well see how it goes!

[Daamu]

Thanks for that fellas it has been good to read this discussion, Idon't know if it has changed my mine but am certainly up to trying new things and if i go to purchase a new boat i may even consider going over to the dark side. I can see what ozbee is saying about the north as a lot of people up this way get stuck in thier ways and it will take a lot to change their minds.
Cheers

Dale

[FNQCairns]

Thanks for that fellas it has been good to read this discussion, Idon't know if it has changed my mine but am certainly up to trying new things and if i go to purchase a new boat i may even consider going over to the dark side. I can see what ozbee is saying about the north as a lot of people up this way get stuck in thier ways and it will take a lot to change their minds.
Cheers

Dale


Yeah think long and hard about it, when talking cats a person needs to consider length just like any other boat, anything 6+ and you will be fine, the majority up here are not blind to cats, the lack of numbers in the small sizes is a cast vote that cannot be ignored.

cheers fnq

[Grand_Marlin]

look ive broken my pedestral seats , live kill tank hinges bait board ,spare motor bracket, smashed bilge pump bracket rocket launcher so i am definately not saying the v nose is best as i broke all of these in 1.2 mtr
.

And on the second day God created the Chiropractor .... and a Cat ;D

Never again he said ....

[Dean1]

Mate, cats tip over just as easy as mono's. A skilled driver of each boat will dictate the outcome. One thing is for sure, once overturned a mono is a lot easier to retreive than a cat.

Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic, the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's. It is not possible to make a self righting cat. In saying that, if I were to weigh up the pro's and con's I would choose the cat based on stablity at rest. If anyone has ever compared sleeping on a cat V a mono then the cat wins hands down. G'day mate, I was not saying that cats dont tip as easy as monos or the likes i was just stating that 'cats' dont tip as easy as 'cat knockers' think. I dont even bother arguing with a mono hull owner who bags cats these days, im extremely happy with my boat and thats all that matters really. thats all. If a cat was in the wrong hands well then a cat would probably tip easier than a mono especially if playing around in a bar especially. Its just funny how the guys that bag the hell outa cats are usually guys that havent even been in a 'good' cat. Cats take a little while to learn how to get the most outa them but thats the fun part ;) Then you get the confidence and bigger jatz crackers that only a cat can give ;D Cheers, Deano.

[finding_time]

Hummm. i wonder what Kerry would have made of this thread, it certainly would have been spicer!!!


Ian

[tin can marlin]

What you should do is ask dean if you can go out in his as his set up for serious fishing etc and he has had plenty of experinace with the kevlcat i think deano would be the best person to speak to about them as he knows them back to front and it is a credit to him for that. Regards Mark

[Lovey80]

What ever happened to Kerry? These pages have been quite civil for quite some time.

Cheers

Chris

[ozbee]

ask the Suzuki dealership in Townsville they had a 23 kelv i think and managed to
sink her up here. ive been told some one in Townsville should be able to give the account. had a couple of Honda on the back. look theres one doing charter work out of townsville.

[Dean1]

ask the Suzuki dealership in Townsville they had a 23 kelv i think and managed to
sink her up here. ive been told some one in Townsville should be able to give the account. had a couple of Honda on the back. look theres one doing charter work out of townsville. Sounds like it was a 7m dominator ::) :-/

[finding_time]

Hey Ozbee

Mate please dont take offence, i'm just interested to know how much experience you have had in cats?

It's just that some of your statements dont match with how a cat handles eg, Using trim to balance the boat and holes forming and how they handle them. Trust me mate when there is a very confussed sea and holes are forming everywhere there is know other boat i would rather be in as they dont land on there side and slam like a mono in fact they do slam occasionally but probably only 25% of the time a mono does. Since if had mine i've gone from a totally stand up driver to wearing a hole in the helm seat i use it so much, even on rough day when you do a bit of launching i'm seated, there just that soft!


Ian

[Greg P]

What you should do is ask dean if you can go out in his as his set up for serious fishing etc and he has had plenty of experinace with the kevlcat i think deano would be the best person to speak to about them as he knows them back to front and it is a credit to him for that. Regards Mark


Wow - quite a wrap Dean. You are fast becoming an Ausfish legend ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

[lippa]

cats are a good thing:-/

but beaware of there cabin designs, they allow exhasut fumes to be sucked up and owners become delusional!:P other symptoms include, tunell vision, false sense of security, dribbling, and repetitiveness (cats are awesome man, cats are awesome man cats, are awesome man,,,,,,,);D

unless your prepared to become a crazy cat lady like dean, pete and ian, stick with a mono, to save on thearapy down the track!:-X ;D ;)

[Dean1]

Hey Ozbee

Mate please dont take offence, i'm just interested to know how much experience you have had in cats?

It's just that some of your statements dont match with how a cat handles eg, Using trim to balance the boat and holes forming and how they handle them. Trust me mate when there is a very confussed sea and holes are forming everywhere there is know other boat i would rather be in as they dont land on there side and slam like a mono in fact they do slam occasionally but probably only 25% of the time a mono does. Since if had mine i've gone from a totally stand up driver to wearing a hole in the helm seat i use it so much, even on rough day when you do a bit of launching i'm seated, there just that soft!


Ian Ian this is so true I find it more comfortable to be seated at all times. Ive never landed hard enough were its got me standing again. Very hard to believe nonbelievers but isnt it great Ian!!!

Ozbee -You wont convince us mate as Ian has stated I doubt you have enough experience in cats to get the whole concept im sorry. You are getting slammed bigtime in your boat mate to be breaking the gear that you are. If theres that many holes around you just slow it up a touch. I think you need a run in a 5.2 kc ;)

[Dean1]

cats are a good thing:-/

but beaware of there cabin designs, they allow exhasut fumes to be sucked up and owners become delusional!:P other symptoms include, tunell vision, false sense of security, dribbling, and repetitiveness (cats are awesome man, cats are awesome man cats, are awesome man,,,,,,,);D

unless your prepared to become a crazy cat lady like dean, pete and ian, stick with a mono, to save on thearapy down the track!:-X ;D ;) God you are struggling today mate hey. Why dont you head out in conditions any more than 10kts Lip??? Isnt your maclay up too it?? You forgetting about the coolum episode already? :-/ You will stop fighting it one day and jump ship, like you said to me that day ' if you switched to a cat you wouldnt be able to put up with the comment s coz you bag cats so much' ;D ;D ;D Its ok ill just shake your'e hand and congratulate you bro. Sorry I havent returned your call, works flatout talk soon.

[lippa]

Why dont you head out in conditions any more than 10kts Lip??? Isnt your maclay up too it??

c'mon mate, 15 knts more like it, and the questions easy to answer, i dont have the seamanship skills, :-[ (but i'm learning) and would rather be sitting at home with a cold beer, pulling the piss outa you than floating around pacific somewhere hangin onto an esky. the mclay will handle it, in the right hands!!!!!:-*

You forgetting about the coolum episode already?

pmsl the coolum episode????? ::) ::) cmon, your weather was 10-15 1.5mts.!!!!
it was more like a solid 25knts and good 2.5mts of confused slop.
and how did ya go that day at coolum deano? ahhhh 1 36cm squire wasnt it???
tff.

if you switched to a cat you wouldnt be able to put up with the comment s coz you bag cats so much'


i can eat humble pie, and it would be more a strategic move to ensure the comfort of my young family, though i would have to get the cab redesigned ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah:P :P :P :P :P

[finding_time]

Wow - quite a wrap Dean. You are fast becoming an Ausfish legend ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

Greg

I think tin can marlin might have been having a few drinks last night!!! ;) Sorry Dean;D But a one stage around midnight tcm had the last post on the first 25 threads in boating chat, they were all posted about 1min apart so i dont think he was thinking about content much at all!!!;)


Sorry ta burst ya bubble dean!!!;D Gees i've just hammered you there haven't i mate!

Ian

Ps. Deano

Will you deal with that mate of yours Lippa!!! I think he's suffering brain damage from his spine inpacting the base of his skull,ya get that i guess in a platey!!;D 8-)

[Dean1]

Why dont you head out in conditions any more than 10kts Lip??? Isnt your maclay up too it??

c'mon mate, 15 knts more like it, and the questions easy to answer, i dont have the seamanship skills, :-[ (but i'm learning) and would rather be sitting at home with a cold beer, pulling the piss outa you than floating around pacific somewhere hangin onto an esky. the mclay will handle it, in the right hands!!!!!:-*

You forgetting about the coolum episode already?

pmsl the coolum episode????? ::) ::) cmon, your weather was 10-15 1.5mts.!!!!
it was more like a solid 25knts and good 2.5mts of confused slop.
and how did ya go that day at coolum deano? ahhhh 1 36cm squire wasnt it???
tff.

if you switched to a cat you wouldnt be able to put up with the comment s coz you bag cats so much'


i can eat humble pie, and it would be more a strategic move to ensure the comfort of my young family, though i would have to get the cab redesigned ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah:P :P :P :P :PGee quite a bit of effort youv put in here bigfella! At least I got up to coolum that day. I made it worth the haul up there!! Hey I caught no fish but gee it was great to be out there! Myself and the boys enjoyed it they didnt complain like your whingin rot ;D And great to give the boat a run and show you how cats love that shit!! Have you never come home fishless?? And wheres my carton for blowing you outa the weeds? Oooh I could go on and on! We need another comp I think. Today looks the goods!!

[TheRealAndy]

ask the Suzuki dealership in Townsville they had a 23 kelv i think and managed to
sink her up here. ive been told some one in Townsville should be able to give the account. had a couple of Honda on the back. look theres one doing charter work out of townsville.

I am pretty sure that Northside Marine put a cat upside down out the front of redcliffe when they were taking a customer out for a test drive a few years back.

[gofishin]

Ahh, doesn’t the ‘cats vs monos’ debate always lead to something. Luckily you didn’t say ‘with E-TECS’ Sid. ;D
…i dont want to start a shitfight…Sid, not sure this is possible with cats v monos ;D
…There seems to be a common misconception down here in SEQ that cat's are safer. Infact they are no more or less safe than a mono… :o The only misconception seems to be that cats are not suitable for NQ waters!

Cats are no safer than any mono with a self draining deck , many individually sealed compartments under the floor , twin engines with separate fuel supply…ian Classic Ian

…Anyone remember the movie - last of the mohicans? (story about unsuccessfully trying to take religion to primitive natives) I guess it is the same thing with the cats and NQ residents Pete Maybe it’s the thongs Pete, can’t get a good grip when the hull heaves a bit
…but was caught off guard using it up here too many times V almost never down south…cheers fnq FNQ, do you mean he wasn’t very experienced with cats before moving up? Maybe this was the problem.

Ozbee

Mate having just read your post for the 4th time…Ian My head was ‘done in’ after the 2nd read, needed more rumbos… Actually, I think I understand what ozbee is getting at – the heave when one hull falls into a hole when the other is rising in short pitched seas. Made worse when the sea is behind the beam due to the diagonal lift from the opposite hull (@transom), and the inherent lack of bow lift (buoyancy) per hull – relative to a mono. All cat owners/crew experience it at some time or another when conditions permit. Some get scared off (and campaign a whole community ::) ), others accept that it is pure physics and learn to deal with it, and, learn to use their cat to its full potential.
the problem with cats from Bowen up is that the sea is not as favourable to them… the effect of one hull falling and the other rising at the same time than as little as ten feet have the opposite happen… Ozbee, I hear you, but maybe you mean the sea is not favourable to the people that are in them due to the movement/heave of the hulls in beam-to or ¼ seas?
…i would imagine in the 30 ft length a cat would be long enough to bridge 3 short chops and be a very sweet machine up here… No they aren’t long enough in sufficient sized short pitched seas – they still heave if the conditions dictate – but they are sweet machines and leave and equivalent mono for dead!

In the late 80’s I was fortunate enough to do some serious hours on a 328 Powercat FB on the north coast of PNG, (after many previous years and more serious hrs in monos), where mountainous terrain and Monsoon (NE/SE) conditions dictate the weather. The seas, when up, are short-pitched bone jarring, boat breaking stuff - with no swell - very similar to that of NQ and MB. Or should I say mostly no swell, as the wind was never blowing in one direction long enough for it to generate. Occasionally we did get swell, but that was from distant cyclones etc.

It takes a little time to get used to the different movement of a cat (and the heaving/unnerving sensation in particular) especially when you are very used to monos. I found it that way, and probably would again as I have not been in one for 12+ yrs. Some seasoned monohull boaties that would come out with us would actually feel a bit seasick when there was bad weather and travelling at speed, having never been seasick before – such is the difference of how cats move through the water and are held in a straight line, heaving as the seas dictate.

trim wont hold when the wave falls out under you this is whats the difference up here …its that scare of one side dropping that puts people off…
…the simple fact is the majority of people around here wont touch them and also most dealerships will warn you against them here cause they have a reputation of not suiting this part of the coast. most yards up here wont take them as trade ins there not interested honestly i dont know of a yard from home hill to ingham that actually have one. … A boat yard is there to make money so of course they would rather not stock cats if there is a perception around that they are not suitable. No disrespect intended to the good guys/yards out there, but in general a boat yard will want to sell you what they have (and some of them talk utter cr@p too), and most likely the ones warning away from cats have no, or not sufficient, experience with them – and probably have none in stock. It’s a catch 22 situation. Again, no disrespect to the goods guys, including the ones on this site. ;)
…Mate when a cat falls into a hole it doesn't land hard on a big flat surface like a mono, yes it will lean but hull shape , chines and foward momentum will bring it back up…ian
It is pure physics (and good old Archimedes Principle) that cats are significantly more stable than an equivalent monohull due to buoyancy forces (righting moment) at the extremities of the hull. Remember that stability is the ability of a ‘hull’ to return to its equilibrium condition, and is determined by a heel test and/or the determination of what’s called the ‘metacentric height’. Larger cats can rock quite a lot simply due to the wave period (distance between waves), but this does not mean they are unstable, or less stable than a mono.

To use an analogy, think of the difference of standing on one leg (monohull) to standing on two (cat), and try and resist when someone pushes you sidewards. Which do you prefer?

The phenomenon of heaving in a cat causes an unnerving feeling (to the uninitiated) for two reasons. Firstly, in a static sense, if one hull is in a trough and the other is up or on the wave a cat must lean over as one hull can’t support itself up in the air. In a dynamic sense there are also inertia forces that come into play, which are quite different to a mono, and contribute to some occupants :o of a cat getting a ‘tipping’ feeling and being subjected to considerable lateral forces. Here I will use another analogy.

Consider riding two types of bikes diagonally over a set of successive mounds (waves) – a std 2 wheel bike (monohull) and a quad (cat). The std bike (and you) will naturally want to remain upright, that is the bike and you will no longer be at right angles relative to the face of the mounds (waves), as the inertia forces resist change to the original vertical position, and it is quite easy for a std bike to lean over. The quad on the other hand has to have 4 wheels/both sides on the ground to remain in equilibrium, and hence leans over going up, and again the other way going down. Here the inertia forces are overcome by the far greater righting moment (stability) of a wheel-set (hull) at the outer extremity. Because monohulls are less stable, they more naturally remain upright and lean into a wave going up, and again going down. 23 deg deadrise becomes 10, 5, or 0 etc and hence they slam.

Going back to the boats, the mono also slides sidewards somewhat going down the face, into the trough, where as the cat has two bloody great vertical walled hulls to keep it in a straight line increasing the inertia effect on the hull and therefore occupants. Add to this the local rotational movement of water within a wave (moves up the face of a wave coming towards you) which increases the forces/tipping sensation.

Mate, cats tip over just as easy as mono's… What type of situations are you talking about? Cats are not fallible, no. One particular type of cat has had more problems than normal, but in all situations it would probably be gross negligence or incompetence, or maybe both. In certain situations with inexperienced skippers doing the totally wrong things at the wrong time, smaller cats are probably more prone to tipping over than monos. But, monos can and do tip over – again with inexperienced skippers and high speeds in the wrong situations and even flat rivers and 5m+ boats.
..One thing is for sure, once overturned a mono is a lot easier to retreive than a cat… And you would base a purchase decision based on this??? I know if I was going to be in the ocean with an upturned boat I would want it to be a cat. Stuff the retrieval process! I would want the best chance of remaining alive. In an upturned condition 99.9% of small cats would remain fairly level, a mono would have more of a nose high attitude giving you nothing to hang on to except the bow. Having a nice long tunnel to shelter in, and hang on to the hulls, would suit me fine. Remember, in a lot of capsize situations people don’t have their life jackets on, they are stuck hard in the upturned hull and very difficult to retrieve.
…the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's. It is not possible to make a self righting cat… Wrong and wrong, except when you are talking about racing yachts – where a cat can’t be self righting. Self righting is of little value unless you have capsized. A boat can be self righting, and have less ‘stability’ than one which is not. It’s all about the buoyancy centroid in an inverted position, vs the CoG, and of course the prevention of the ingress of water into areas where you don’t want it. A cat could be made to be self righting, but yes it would be harder to do than in a mono. It would also look pretty strange. Don’t confuse stability and self righting ability.
…the lack of numbers in the small sizes is a cast vote that cannot be ignored.
What happened to the cat hey-day of the early eighties around the boom of the LT Billfish industry around areas like Cape Bowling Green etc. 288 and 328 Powercats were everywhere with skippers like Jam Dalling (from memory had a 288, or was that an Obrien 33) etc & there were always smaller cats operated privately etc within the Tournament Circles?


I have never had the pleasure of an outing in a 5.2KC, but from everything that has ever been published about them by very experienced seaman (for what, nearly 2 decades?) they have a cult following and high reputation for obvious reason. I would put money on them being a great boat for NQ, in fact probably all smaller cats. Just have to get used to them.

Phew, glad that’s over! My 2c
cheers

[mirage]

Love your work Gofishin.
What he said!

[Vitamin Sea]

I am pretty sure that Northside Marine put a cat upside down out the front of redcliffe when they were taking a customer out for a test drive a few years back.

A bit of light reading for you chaps, all 369 posts..........

Another sh%$fight, good fun though;D

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=112453&highlight=dominator

Cheers

VS

[Dean1]

Yeah yeah hey great work gofishin. Thanks for dedicating the time. Great reading, Cheers.

[finding_time]

Great post Gofishin!

Not really a Cat's V Mono's debate though it has potential:-X It's more a Cat's v Nth Qld 2 foot chop debate!!;)

And your 2cents is more like 2 bobs worth, good stuff!:D

Ian

[finding_time]

A bit of light reading for you chaps, all 369 posts..........

Another sh%$fight, good fun though;D

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=112453&highlight=dominator

Cheers

VS

Ah the old rollinator thread! I would just like to add that a dominator whilst being a cat is very differant and gofishin alluded to this in his earlier post! They have had a few problems.

Ozscott

Mate having trouble finding any info about that cat off townsville , pretty sure it wasn't a kevla , i've ask the right people and they dont know anything about it , and if it was a kevla they would!

Ian

[tae4551]

cats have 9 lives.

[Dean1]

Greg

I think tin can marlin might have been having a few drinks last night!!! ;) Sorry Dean;D But a one stage around midnight tcm had the last post on the first 25 threads in boating chat, they were all posted about 1min apart so i dont think he was thinking about content much at all!!!;)


Sorry ta burst ya bubble dean!!!;D Gees i've just hammered you there haven't i mate!

Ian

Ps. Deano

Will you deal with that mate of yours Lippa!!! I think he's suffering brain damage from his spine inpacting the base of his skull,ya get that i guess in a platey!!;D 8-) Ian I was feelin pretty chuffed till you shot me down!! :) Watch those carby's of yours dont suffer from a blocked jet :o And make sure you keep a close eye on your float levels ;) Guess we'll have to have a KC king shootout!!! ;D 8-) Ps dont worry about lippa he's no threat youll never come across him as he'll be at home on his puter in anything over 12kts. Not like us nutters!!

[ozbee]

Re: Townsville 9th November
yeah Rod, skipper did his back in, he's supposed to ring me today and let me know whether he'll be up for it or not.

looks like even the cats feel it at this time of the year like i do. everybody's complaining how much chop we are getting this year does it mean the monsoon trough is going to be pulled down hard maybe big wet coming

[finding_time]

Re: Townsville 9th November
looks like even the cats feel it at this time of the year


So what this guy is saying is that it was so bad that " even the cats feel it";D Well it must have been bad!!

Ozbee !

Great tenacity mate,;) but your making our arguement! Look our old mate Disorderly ( Scott) runs out to the outer reef in a 5m pressed tinnie in all sorts of weather , if this 2 foot chop was so amazingly destructive his tinnie would have destructed long ago!

And could you answer my previous question, how much time have you spent in a cat?


Ian

[TheRealAndy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealAndy http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=924769#post924769)
Mate, cats tip over just as easy as mono's…

What type of situations are you talking about? Cats are not fallible, no. One particular type of cat has had more problems than normal, but in all situations it would probably be gross negligence or incompetence, or maybe both. In certain situations with inexperienced skippers doing the totally wrong things at the wrong time, smaller cats are probably more prone to tipping over than monos. But, monos can and do tip over – again with inexperienced skippers and high speeds in the wrong situations and even flat rivers and 5m+ boats.

If you read my first response you will have noted that I said their is no difference between that of a mono and a cat when it comes to capsizing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealAndy http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=924769#post924769)
..One thing is for sure, once overturned a mono is a lot easier to retreive than a cat…

And you would base a purchase decision based on this??? I know if I was going to be in the ocean with an upturned boat I would want it to be a cat. Stuff the retrieval process! I would want the best chance of remaining alive. In an upturned condition 99.9% of small cats would remain fairly level, a mono would have more of a nose high attitude giving you nothing to hang on to except the bow. Having a nice long tunnel to shelter in, and hang on to the hulls, would suit me fine. Remember, in a lot of capsize situations people don’t have their life jackets on, they are stuck hard in the upturned hull and very difficult to retrieve.

Now if you had quoted all of my post you would have notice that I said:

Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic...



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealAndy http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=924769#post924769)
…the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's. It is not possible to make a self righting cat…

Wrong and wrong, except when you are talking about racing yachts – where a cat can’t be self righting. Self righting is of little value unless you have capsized. A boat can be self righting, and have less ‘stability’ than one which is not. It’s all about the buoyancy centroid in an inverted position, vs the CoG, and of course the prevention of the ingress of water into areas where you don’t want it. A cat could be made to be self righting, but yes it would be harder to do than in a mono. It would also look pretty strange. Don’t confuse stability and self righting ability.

Once again, I refer to my origonal post where i said "Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic..."

Actually, I am not wrong at all. Take a look at the US Coast Guard boats, the English offshore rescue boats, life boats on modern shipping and oil platforms. They are all self righting mono's and are very stable. Also take a look at Brisbane designers and boat builders Norman Wright and Son's who are experts in self righting designs. I am not talking about sailing boats (I am a sailor however).

After your response I did a google for 'self righting cat' but only turned up patent references and model boats. I am sure they exist, I just couldn't find any, mainly because I did not spend a lot of time looking.

Now dont think for a second that I am a cat basher, cause I am not. The one boat I would dearly love to own is a Noosa Cat. I have riden in them and love them, I just cant afford one. When it comes to sailing I am also a cat fan, I love the stability that offer and they are by far one of the faster hull types which means they are a rush to sail. I have slept on both cats and monos and once again I think they cat is much better.

[Barraholic]

Gofishin – you da man!! well explained physics of a cat’s dynamics in simple terms.

IMHO, for a given length of hull (discounting fishing styles/boat layouts):

Buy a mono if you want more choices of boat brands, save money on the purchase price and save money on the running costs – take a hit on deck on deck/usable space and learn to back off when the weather turns nasty as required.

Buy a cat if you want to have the redundancy of twin motors etc,. can live with the higher purchase price and running costs, are willing to take the effort to learn to “drive” your vessel to get maximum performance and want to not have to back off (as early) when the weather turns away from favourable. For a given length hull you will cover more ground in a given sea state and be more comfortable if the cat is being driven correctly.

The underlying influence of a boat’s ability to handle any given sea state is the skill and experience of the skipper driving the boat, be it mono or cat, be it NQ waters or Bass Strait.

Barraholic

P.S. from a proud 5.2 KC owner :D ;)

[ozbee]

he goes out in his 5 mtr tinny yeah when 5 to 10 knots . my next door neighbour brought hi 23 ft ally up from Brisbane and he managed to crack it in a few places so maybe this two foot chop is a bit bigger than 2 ft eh. as for driving cats i said when i was younger i use to go out with a mate who had a 18 ft sharck cat and i also stated that at times i would believe it road better than my patriot but in the same token he would get caught with the summer conditions up here and if he wasnt careful he could put one over the nose.

as for cats i still go out in one occasionally but fairs fair it s over 40 ft in length actually i must take a photo for you as i would say its probably one of the largest private built for private use made.

its not me you have to convenience im just stating the way cats are up here that is the general opinion you find up here and also why most get rid of there cats up here ask them.

hope that wasn't your mate in the 5mtr tinny they found drifting on the up turned hull of Townsville last week. as a side note remember how i got attacked cause i called one of col boat a coffin box not because of his great workmanship but for this idea of making around 5mtr tiller drive boats instead of console driven well here's the first but lucky they got saved .yes he had a fifty and guess what he couldn't hold the tiller when he came of a wave. simple fact tiller boats for the average person are not suitable for open seas.

[Dean1]

Hey ozbee your mates 18 cat you mentioned was one of the earlier sharkcats that had the droopy nose by the sounds of it. They are known to nose dive into short sharp chop. The later 18 cats 85 model onwards was a MUCH better model and didnt suffer from this problem. The 5.2 kc's are better again in a following sea due to the lift in the front of the hull. I owned an 18 cat and it was set up well not suffering from the droopy nose and i know it didnt feel as good as my kc in this respect. Im guessing it was when running with the swell that you felt like the cat was going to go nose over??

[ozbee]

yes it was but please understand when i looked at buying my patriot i tried to get a view on cats up here and it really like hitting a brick wall no one wanted to have anything to do with them also all dealership s spoke negatively about them and still do.while yes i like my 680 patriot i still feel it was a lot to pay for the actual size of the hull.yes they cut nicely but in the same token they taper in a long way so a lot of area is lost in the cabin though there depth is reassuring. i still feel a cat can have a better lay out .

[snelly1971]

Hey ozbee your mates 18 cat you mentioned was one of the earlier sharkcats that had the droopy nose by the sounds of it. They are known to nose dive into short sharp chop. The later 18 cats 85 model onwards was a MUCH better model and didnt suffer from this problem. The 5.2 kc's are better again in a following sea due to the lift in the front of the hull. I owned an 18 cat and it was set up well not suffering from the droopy nose and i know it didnt feel as good as my kc in this respect. Im guessing it was when running with the swell that you felt like the cat was going to go nose over??

Gee Dean, I have been away for nearly 6 months , and you are still dribbeling about that little Pussy.....When are these Cat V Mono debates going to end !!!!

Mick

[finding_time]

Gee Dean, I have been away for nearly 6 months , and you are still dribbeling about that little Pussy.....When are these Cat V Mono debates going to end !!!!

Mick


Mick

It's a cat V 2 foot chop thread!;) The cat v mono debate was won ages ago!;D

i see the Tasmanians are catching onto the Kevla's


http://www.searescue.org.au/latestnews.htm


Ian

[Dean1]

Gee Dean, I have been away for nearly 6 months , and you are still dribbeling about that little Pussy.....When are these Cat V Mono debates going to end !!!!

Mick Hey Mick!!! Long time!!! Since you mentioned 'little' pussy who's the 'big' pussy who dissapeared with his tail betwen his legs for 6 months?! My little pussy hasn't let me down yet ;) I have alot more range nowadays too my friend.

Ian- good spotting mate!!!

[snelly1971]

Hey Mick!!! Long time!!! Since you mentioned 'little' pussy who's the 'big' pussy who dissapeared with his tail betwen his legs for 6 months?! My little pussy hasn't let me down yet ;) I have alot more range nowadays too my friend.

Ian- good spotting mate!!!

More range eh...so your allowed to go out of the bay are you:-X:-X

Yep, 6 months and nothing has changed ..one little bit:o:o

Mick

[TheRealAndy]

More range eh...so your allowed to go out of the bay are you:-X:-X

Yep, 6 months and nothing has changed ..one little bit:o:o

Mick

Hey Mick, dont you have one of those tri-hull boats? Would be interested in going for a spin in one of those, I reckon they would be pretty good. How do they ride compared to a mono or a cat? A guy up the road from my parents use to have one, and I was always curious about how it behaved.

Cheers,

Andy.

[snelly1971]

Hey Mick, dont you have one of those tri-hull boats? Would be interested in going for a spin in one of those, I reckon they would be pretty good. How do they ride compared to a mono or a cat? A guy up the road from my parents use to have one, and I was always curious about how it behaved.

Cheers,

Andy.

Any time Andy.....and I can Guarantee 1 Thing;D;DYou will get one hell of a suprise.

Mick

[Grand_Marlin]

A Tri - Hull is esentially training wheels on a Cat ;D ;D ;D

Cheers

Pete

[Blackened]

A Tri - Hull is esentially training wheels on a Cat ;D ;D ;D

Cheers

Pete

G'day

Very good Pete, but oh sh!t.... here we go ::);D;D;D;D

Dave

[Noelm]

regardless of what sort of Boat you are in, I find it hard to believe that the Wind and chop is from only one direction in QLD! never had a Southerly, an Easterly or anything else, just the same wind all the time, that when added to the shape of Australia makes one type of Boat useless/dangerous/unsuitable!

[Lovey80]

This thread is gold! Some really good piss taking in the right humour.

What NQ conditions need is a pressed, single engine cat ;) Shorter the better!

lol

Cheers

Chris

[Outsider1]

This thread is gold! Some really good piss taking in the right humour.

What NQ conditions need is a pressed, single engine cat ;) Shorter the better!

lol

Cheers

Chris

or a plastic one!;D;)

Cheers

Dave

[Noelm]

I mentioned once way back that the best Boat that could ever possibly be built would be a poly Cat with an Etec on one side and a 4 stroke on the other, alloy trailer with gal springs one side and Alko suspension on the other, centre console with a cab on the front, you could never stop arguing about that one!

[cormorant]

I mentioned once way back that the best Boat that could ever possibly be built would be a poly Cat with an Etec on one side and a 4 stroke on the other, alloy trailer with gal springs one side and Alko suspension on the other, centre console with a cab on the front, you could never stop arguing about that one!


Noel - get it right mate!!!!

Has to be a quad power at least you have left off the I/o unit , shaft drive , and deisel outboard. Now one pontoon should be a planing shape and the other sponson a displacement. The cabin woyuld have to be a offset job like and Arvor so those who appreciate a glass enclosure can be happy and the others can stand outside in the elements getting a blowet of their mullets while also sunburn on their bald spot. Each motor will have a different steering mechanism from tiller steer, cable ,hydraulic to fly-by-wire and a range of props from carbon, stainless to ally and plastic

Oh yeah that would be a polly hull with ally deck and fibreglass superstructure and wood rubbing strakes.

He He

good to see the right sort of humour on some threads.

Only one decision left- what kicker motor do we put on in case all the rest fail - I vote a u38 powered kicker so we don't have to worry about petrol. Hell they are a bit heavy but the submarines have it right I reckon.

[Noelm]

now your cookin'

[gofishin]

Cheers fellas. Been busy but i thought I'd see whats cookin!

...Not really a Cat's V Mono's debate though it has potential:-X It's more a Cat's v Nth Qld 2 foot chop debate!!;) ... Yes, true Ian, but it looked like it was getting there...until Mick threw a curved ball in (was that a 'triple' seam Kookaburra Mick with extra late reverse swing??? We were only talking about single & double seams...;D


....P.S. from a proud 5.2 KC owner :D ;)
Geez, another one::) , you Kev/C blokes are everywhere!;D ;D . Make sure you boys slow down & say g'day if you see me on the ocean, before blasting past me...unless ofcourse there is chop on the bay, then I'll slow down as I'm going past you...:o apparently ;D ;D ;D PS. Good points there Barra.

Andy, as big Arnie says......I'll be back....! Just have to find time to google up some stuff for you ;)
cheers
Brendon

[finding_time]

I thought i would bring the original question back up , as the thread is starting to get more and more off topic



I do not want to start a war on cats or monos but what i cannot figure out is why there is not many cats up north compared with down south.
Is it lack of dealerships up here the reason or does different sea conditions play a role.
Again i stress not knocking cats just curious.
Troy

And to summerize

Well as far as i can see, most cat owners/ drivers cant see a problem with cats in northern waters, and some of those guys have plenty of experience in nth qld waters ( grand marlin, foxy ) But for some reason there seems to be rumors that cats are no good , maybe this is due to older style cats that dipped there nose or as gofisin cleverly sugested " hard to drive a cat wearing thongs " but for some reason it appears that certain dealers are perpetuating this theroy for what ever reason but it doesn't gel with people that run cats. The sea conditions described believe it of not occure in other places imho and cats cope quite well with them, it may just be a self forfilling prophecy that because there aren't many cats up nth people dont think they run well so they dont buy them which means there aren't many up nth!:-[

Ian

[snelly1971]

A Tri - Hull is esentially training wheels on a Cat ;D ;D ;D

Cheers

Pete

Get it right Poppy Marlin, A cat is a poor mans Tri Hull, they just couldnt afford the center hull.

Mick

[Dean1]

Hey Mick, dont you have one of those tri-hull boats? Would be interested in going for a spin in one of those, I reckon they would be pretty good. How do they ride compared to a mono or a cat? A guy up the road from my parents use to have one, and I was always curious about how it behaved.

Cheers,

Andy. Oh shit now its gana get messy ::) Dont start Mick about tri's please :D

[ozbee]

here goes spit the dummy you cat lovers was in at our local fibreglasser and guess what he was patching up a meow meow. his first comments were i wish these southern people would stop brining there cats up here they don't suit north Queensland conditions . take hart there was a mono next to it with half the pod torn off

[finding_time]

what sort of cat ozbee?

[TheRealAndy]

Oh shit now its gana get messy ::) Dont start Mick about tri's please :D

Obviously there has been heated tri debates too. Oh well, bit like etec V the world. I have not ridden in a tri but I reckon they would be the ducks nuts based on my experiences with other triamaran configurations.

[ozbee]

i was there to pick up my son whos a mate of his, pretty dark but there was some street light not super new didn't have that shine had planked sides. i reckon he was on his 5 th rum i just dont know how you can be covered in the powder and fibre all day. the way the ne have been blowing up here the last fortnight you will split or crack anything at the moment though good weather forecast this weekend.

[finding_time]

The reason i ask ozbee is that like all boats , there are good and bad and some cats have a reputation for cracking, that's why it would be good to know!

Ian

[finding_time]

Andy

At the time i stayed out of the cat v tri debate as i haven't been in one! But i 2 would like to go for a spin to compare!

I have been in a few of the large sailing tri's and many large cats and as far as sailing goes give me a cat any day! But i'm sure this has no revelance to motor vessels, totally differance beasts!

Ian

Whoops off topic!

[snelly1971]

Oh shit now its gana get messy ::) Dont start Mick about tri's please :D

Dont worry Deano;) I wont bag out old Poppy Marlin:-*:-*He is coming down this way again soon::)::)and then finally I will get some feedback on what he thinks of a Hobson Tri Hull:-X:-X

I also Think Outside Skip is also coming down in December for a Trip..

Mick

Ps.It will be good to get a few Northern Ausfishers down our way to experience our conditons, and fishing techniques, and see that maybe old Henry Hobson was on to something with his boats..

[gofishin]

OK Andy, here are all your previous posts, apologies for not quoting them in their entirety ;D :

Its probably a lack of dealers, which may be due to a lack of popularatiy for one reason or another. There seems to be a common misconception down here in SEQ that cat's are safer. Infact they are no more or less safe than a mono. Maybe the myth up north is that they are unsafe?

Mate, cats tip over just as easy as mono's. A skilled driver of each boat will dictate the outcome. One thing is for sure, once overturned a mono is a lot easier to retreive than a cat.


Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic, the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's. It is not possible to make a self righting cat. In saying that, if I were to weigh up the pro's and con's I would choose the cat based on stablity at rest. If anyone has ever compared sleeping on a cat V a mono then the cat wins hands down.

I am pretty sure that Northside Marine put a cat upside down out the front of redcliffe when they were taking a customer out for a test drive a few years back.
And in your reply to my post (sorry in advance, I’m not quoting your post in full –again :-X ):

If you read my first response you will have noted that I said their is no difference between that of a mono and a cat when it comes to capsizing…
OK, looking for this text…….looking…….still looking……..”still looking” {she says as her husbands legs are dangling through the gyprock – thanks RACQ}….focus man FOCUS…:D OK, I give up, can’t find it!!!

What exactly do you mean by this statement anyway, it doesn’t make sense to me. There are so many differences/considerations in the context of it I don’t know where to start;- power or sail, static or dynamic, due to sea state only, overloading, with skipper error, other factors, a combination, in reaching the point of capsize or after capsize, etc etc???


…Take a look at the US Coast Guard boats, the English offshore rescue boats, life boats on modern shipping and oil platforms. They are all self righting mono's and are very stable… You mean they have a high ‘ultimate’ stability – the highest possibly in fact. However, what sort of ‘stability’ is important to us as users of ‘trailerable planing (??) monos, cats (or tri’s!)?


There are two classifications of stability that are important to vessel designers and of course us users; ‘ultimate’ stability and ‘initial’ stability. In simple terms ultimate stability is the point of maximum heel where the boat is teetering on capsize, initial stability is a measure of how tender a boat is at rest or while underway in a light to moderate sea etc.


For a sailor like yourself, ‘ultimate stability’ (sometimes also referred to as the vanishing angle, or point of vanishing stability) is the most important in a mono yacht. If you slap the deck you’d want to know that she’ll pop back up. However, with planing craft & occupant comfort factor, ‘initial stability’ is very important (commonly just referred to as ‘stability’), however obviously there still has to be sufficient ultimate stability.


Cats have a much higher initial stability – you confirmed this yourself! Refer attached stability curve for 50’ yachts – mono, cat & tri. Unfortunately couldn’t find any for planing hulls, however, the curves should be somewhat similar (relative to each other), just with different values etc)


Now I know you said
…Whilst its totally irrelevant to the main topic, the most stable boats in the world are self righting mono's… In the context of this debate (thread), and how the general boatie perceives stability, I thought the statement was incorrect & needed to be qualified.


Self righting monos generally have a lower ‘initial’ stability compared to an equivalent sized mono which is not self righting. This is needed to help roll them back to the right way up, and also so it doesn’t thrash the sh!t out of the crew when they are out in F8 gales trying to rescue someone. That is, they roll a bit at rest, but this is obviously no indication of the ‘ultimate’ stability available. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1229911/coast_guard_response_boat_self_righting_test (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1229911/coast_guard_response_boat_self_righting_test)
[watch the roll after this vessel has self righted, which is typical for many self righting rescue vessels. No one would want a pleasure planing craft with this ‘rock n roll’ at rest, a lot of fisherman would get seasick!]

Here is an article with good definitions and graphical descriptions of different hull forms and the different stages of stability. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=my71oEZrfF4C&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=%22ultimate+stability%22+%2B+hull&source=web&ots=g2bn-Ozw1Z&sig=ISDHK6vPRh4EjLG8-d_x9erLpd0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA10,M1 (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=my71oEZrfF4C&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=%22ultimate+stability%22+%2B+hull&source=web&ots=g2bn-Ozw1Z&sig=ISDHK6vPRh4EjLG8-d_x9erLpd0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA10,M1)
Start around p10.

For a sailor like yourself, ‘ultimate stability’ is the most important in a mono yacht. If you slap the deck you’d want to know that she’ll pop back up. However, with planing craft & occupant comfort factor, ‘initial stability’ is very important, commonly just referred to as ‘stability’. Cats have a much higher initial stability – you confirmed this yourself! Refer attached p2 stability curve for 50’ yachts. Unfortunately couldn’t find any for planing hulls, however, the curves would be similar – relative to each other, just with different values etc)


Here is a book/preview which you will probably find interesting. (These previews take a while to load, ‘page up’ to ~p32 if you get blanks at first
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hGzCGB0pC98C&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=stability+%2B+%22self+righting%22&source=web&ots=nagfKjGwe7&sig=UMgRjuxnEOP9V7A620iwEhZlbsE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA35,M1 (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hGzCGB0pC98C&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=stability+%2B+%22self+righting%22&source=web&ots=nagfKjGwe7&sig=UMgRjuxnEOP9V7A620iwEhZlbsE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA35,M1)


Here is a book I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on either.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=RUjh0NEMhesC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=%22ultimate+stability%22+%2B+design&source=web&ots=rxz25ALwRn&sig=zeqjSqdKyyvHWbv-DPXLBCuGbcQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA10,M1 (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=RUjh0NEMhesC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=%22ultimate+stability%22+%2B+design&source=web&ots=rxz25ALwRn&sig=zeqjSqdKyyvHWbv-DPXLBCuGbcQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA10,M1)
The second figure on p12 is interesting, & shows difference between static & dynamic stability some boats have. (make reference to a particular tinny make that can fall over in certain sea/trim states– as has been reported on here at times).


Some other articles/pdf’s attached fyi.- or the ones i could get to less than 100kb Note that somtimes they are referring to larger displacement cats etc, not small performance cats
cheers



PS. Yes, the boys at NWS make a bloody nice boat…well I guess they’re more than just ‘boats’ aren’t they. They’re currently nearing completion of a 100’ motor yacht, (and the 10 custom s/s portholes it has cost as much as my whole boat :o ) - but I don’t think this one is self righting :P ,

[jimbo59]

Me finks gofishin is kerry born again:D

[trueblue]

Question..........

Curious how a Cat would handle in some seas that I got caught in recently in my 5.3 Dale mono (lots of boat for a 5.3 classification)... I reckon I got close as I ever want to get to rolling a boat over, and came home with a distinct feeling that I need a bigger boat.

I was heading home from tangalooma and had a scary moment between the south west spit and the scarborough blinker.

The morning was a 15 knot SE that had blown all night, but was not forcast to get any worse during the day. We banged a bit heading straight into it on the way over, but I reckoned that in the following sea coming back to Scarborough that it would be an easy ride home.

About 11am the South Easter picked up to a steady 25 knots (I checked the wind data later) but I didn't really notice it over at Tangalooma with the kids. About 1:30 pm we headed home and we had a slow but safe run out past the M8. Then it got interesting. Tide was in the middle of the flow in for a big high tide.

Waves were 4 to 6 feet which was a big surprise, but were really steep and peaky, with the odd one breaking. they seemed to be coming in pairs, only about 4 metres apart. The waves seemed to have a lot more south in them, and we were copping them on the back quarter.

we couldn't go very quick obviously and then somehow we got a bit sideways on one of the waves (parallel to the wave where the seas became a bit confused) and we rolled over a fair way as the wave tried to break. This wave was a bit bigger (6 to 7 foot). The gunwhale on the lower side had water lapping at the edge (not coming in, but close) and this boat has much higher gunwhales than most.

We came home the rest of the way safely, having to tack a fair bit so as to not have to cop the waves on the side any more.

So the question is, how would a cat have performed in this situation in comparison to a bigger monohull? Trying to work out what I would prefer as a bigger boat. I have heard lots of people say get up it and go harder in a cat, but I really couldn't see that as an option on that day. (but I don't know so hence the question...)

[insideout]

well i am going to be shot to pieces for saying this, and if i am reading this right, i believe (and dont forget im a twin-hull man) that side on, in big, big, breaking seas, that a cat would probably, probably be first to tip, on a big side on breaking wave, for i believe that the lowest hull would dig in, and the power of the wave would push it over. Now thats not to say that a mono will not, im saying that you either commit to the wave on a slight angle, or turn and high tail before it hits u. In saying that, if i were to be in that situation, i woud want to be in a cat to a mono.
Im sure people would have a different view, but as a former owner of 2 cats from 40 feet flybridge to 24 footer and done bar crossings before, this is my thoughts only, and i would like to hear others. ( ps cannot say about tri- hulls tho, for i have never been on 1)

[Kerry]

Me finks gofishin is kerry born again:D
you finks wrong.

This debate was left in the 70's, doesn't take that many words to call a spade a spade :o not for me anyway ;D