How to bend your Navara... Take it to Fraser

[Mtx]

Just got these photos sent through from a fishing trip to Fraser.

Not a good selling point for a Navara.

You might also recognise the boat from Col's post.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=139692

[Benno1]

what would have caused that???...driving thru a ditch to fast???...is the loaded boat to much for the Nissan???...*cringes at the cost too fix the Navara*...nice boat too...loved the link as well...thanks Mtx :D

Mrs Benno1

[Fish'n Junky]

Ouch!
Will that be a write off?
Where did the actual bend occur?
Isn't the towing capacity 3tonne?
How much weight was on there?

Would love to know the details if you can find out.. I'm looking, or, rather, WAS looking at a Navara as my next purchase....

[Dirtysanchez]

Looks like it has come away from the main chassis, and the tow bar was not on the main chassis !! EEK :o

I could be wrong though, often am.. just ask the Mrs :P

[goddy100]

I have seen this happen to a hilux dual cab, loaded for a trip up the cape. It looks like the actual chassis is bent from overloading. A navara has a total carrying capacity of around 850kg, so it does not take long to put too much into them, like most dual cabs.

Goddy

[Stonkered]

That's not good.

Would be interested to know how much load was in the tray and also how much weight the boat/trailer puts on the towbar?

What towbar is fitted????

I own a Navara.... I think I'm pretty safe tho, I can only dream about a rig like that at the moment....

Ben

[flybloke]

sure I read somewhere that the D40 had a very strong chassis due to the Sepos having V8 donks in there models.
Going by the size of the boat, Id guess it was abuse

[Dory4.1]

I doubt if warranty will cover that!

Rgs
Michael

[harry_h01]

It looks like a design for a new tilt tray

Very serious situation but. Would hate to see the result if this had happened on the highway.

Harry

[FNQCairns]

That's a shocker!! and just plain wrong!

Highlights what these soft roaders can be all about, great cars up till....then there is nothing left without incorporating a higher degree of agricultural feel into the original design mix.

It snapped in the only place it really could, looks like a design too light for the work it was being asked to do and common metal fatigue set in.

If I owned one and towed near its maximum I would be checking the chassis very regular.

cheers fnq

[mickc]

2/3 of the tray is behind the axle, with half of that behind the end of the chassis rail , plus the download from the boat . I'll bet there wasn't much need for power steering running up the highway.It really does make you wonder at some peoples expectations.

[tunaticer]

Telstra dumped the early coilcab nissan patrols for the same reason as those photos show. Bending the chassis with the long overhang behind the axle with little load bearing tray support forward of the axle results in uneven stresses around the axle area. Bends are not too uncommon with extended chassis types like this. Fitting a towbar is effectively an extension of a chassis and places stresses around the axle area of the chassis.

Jack.

[BigE]

It's the new tilt tray option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[GBC]

awwww bugger!

[Spaniard_King]

That would take some effort.. explaining that one to the missus :(

[snatch]

The photo makes it easy to have an opinion on what might of happened. If the vehicle was travelling at speed and the trailer disappeared into a bog it would really matter what was towing it. If you enlarge the second photo you can see sand heaped on the A-frame suggesting it nose dived.

It's a similar effect to hitting an object at speed. Rear vehicle (boat) suddenly stops. Towing vehicle keeps going. The photos don't tell the story. Merely the outcome.

[chisel]

Bugger! Might not be Nissan's fault but it's not a good advert for the Navara.

[BenDover]

ha ha, Nice 1. Na, guys. Its not the towbar or has anything to do with the tray. The chassis is bent from speed humps and too much weight. It would have bent just forward of the rear crossmember. Ive seen it happen to alot of hilux's (not in that way but).
A guy we used to race with named Sven in a grey comp hilux used to bend his chassis all the time. At the end of the day he used to drive off down the road on all kinds of weird angles.
Its not a right off. It can be fixed, but has to be pulled right back down the chassis itself :). fun.
Go the cruiser/patrol ;)

[TheRealAndy]

I suppose they were driving down the beach at 80km/h whilst towing a pretty heavy boat. Maybe hit whoa boy or a wash out? Pointless speculating about it.

A 4wd is not indestructible, you drive to suit the conditions. Drive it like an idiot and you will break it, seem pretty obvious me.

[MICHAELG]

not good- feel sorry for the owner and crew associated.

As a guess I'd say this occured going thru Indian head track. Anybody who has towed something thru here knows you have no choice(most of the time) to get into it to get thru and if they happen to hit 1 of the dirty big holes going thru - end result me thinks

hopefully it will covered by warranty/insurance if it can be fixed

Michael

[FNQCairns]

Think this one is an outright failure, it's easy to make excuses though, The Telstra patrols esp once fitted with the largemetal boxs on the tray would over time hammer the bump stops until they and some of the ancillary axle mounting pieces ripped too, throughout this the rail would start to twist out at the bottom. It's one of the first places to look when buying one to discount any hard paced abuse of the truck took place over time, the front of the patrols also see the same thing although usually showing as a spreading of the rail still all multi km and hard hits, if it has one it usually will have the other.

Still even the GUs can spread their rails and is a worthy pre-purchase check regardless of how the rest of the car looks.

That nissan failure above is not a hammering point but the most unsupported point in the entire chassis and if it was simply a couple of whoopsy doos then one would expect a true bend this looks alot like a passive work related failure but the final sheer/tear just happened to happen on the sand due to the extra work it entails on the car, just lucky it didn't fail on the highway, there was every chance it would have of it sooner or later if the beach was not driven.

The only thing holding the rear of that truck up is the tandem trailer:o

My 2c anyway, that pic is just plain wrong!



cheers fnq

[BenDover]

Ive seen a few patrols with cracked chassi rails (front). The sure sign of it is just before full lock with your steering (either way) there is a clunking sound. Took ages to find that out but.
BD

[snatch]

They are not hard to fix if you get the right person to do it. If done properly it will end up stronger than the factory job. Not sure what is like nowadays but once upon a time the worst thing about doing something like that on fraser was the cost of the tow from the rogue that operated there.

[upstart]

I saw a Navara up on Silver Plains Station last year which was busted just like that. they had it loaded with fuel drums in support of a bunch of ultralights which were heading up to the tip. Wish I'd gotten a photo.

[BenDover]

Not sure what is like nowadays but once upon a time the worst thing about doing something like that on fraser was the cost of the tow from the rogue that operated there.
Rainbow to brisbane $350 ;D unless your with racq.

Ive seen them fix them before, They have a jig set up with lasers and punch in what model and make the 4x4 is. They just keep bending until all the laser points line up. Then reinforce it somehow. BUT - They have to strip it right back to bare chassi. Imagine the amount of work that would take!!! And the guy told me that "after they put it all back together it can be out as much as 20mm (even from factory).
Atleast cruisers and patrols only crack and not bend.

[ozscott]

At least Land Rovers dont bend or crack...:)

[scrubba01]

Telstra dumped the early coilcab nissan patrols for the same reason as those photos show. Bending the chassis with the long overhang behind the axle with little load bearing tray support forward of the axle results in uneven stresses around the axle area. Bends are not too uncommon with extended chassis types like this. Fitting a towbar is effectively an extension of a chassis and places stresses around the axle area of the chassis.

Jack.

I saw a Energex GQ patrol come out of our paddock one day the guy said it was driving funny. When we had a look at it all of his ladders were bent, his chassis had snapped and the ladders were the only thing holding it all together:o

[jimbamb]

Couldnt help yourself eh oz!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good one,,

Check out the rear tyres on the nav... Must have had a bit in the rear of tray PLUS the trailer probably full of camping gear and fuel....
Jim

[Fishbone]

I saw Predator just south of Indian on Saturday morning the 4th they were going North - it looked straight them.

Here is a cruiser conversion which had just been pulled through Indian a year ago.. It had a huge off-road trailer hooked up behind it...

[rooboy98]

Rainbow to brisbane $350 ;D unless your with racq.

Ive seen them fix them before, They have a jig set up with lasers and punch in what model and make the 4x4 is. They just keep bending until all the laser points line up. Then reinforce it somehow. BUT - They have to strip it right back to bare chassi. Imagine the amount of work that would take!!! And the guy told me that "after they put it all back together it can be out as much as 20mm (even from factory).
Atleast cruisers and patrols only crack and not bend.

Years ago I was unfortnate enough to purchase a new near Navara 4WD which turned out to have been previously involved in what must of been a fairly serious accident. After much heated discussion, I managed to get them to replace the chassis with a new item.

Unfortnately a new chassis turned out to be unobtainable and I had to settle for another second hand one which I was told had only sustained "minor damage". I didn't like the sound of it but had little choice at the time.

Well, as stated above the truck had to be stripped bare and rebuilt on the "new" chassis. A mammoth job........and very poorly done in this case. Things just never go back together like they do at the factory. Nearly six weeks later I got my truck back. It went back to the shop 3 times to get stuff fixed. To top it off the "new" chassis was also bent.

After getting that chassis pulled somewhat straight, I decided to trade the truck in and cut my losses. I had had enough of it.

I now get a panel beater to look over any 2nd hand vehicle I'm looking at purchasing as well as getting the usual mechanical report. An experienced panel beater can usually tell you in a matter of minutes if the vehicle has any major sort of bodywork done to it in a past life.

[.:::stotty:::.]

Also the weight of the boat, plus the load in the back, plus the load of dragging a big boat through soft sand = this. But you would think that if it says you are allowed to carry that amount of wiehgt (3tonne) towing capicaty, you would think it would do it okay.

[BenDover]

That doesnt sound fun at all rooboy 98!!! Thats the problem with chassi's. The second hand ones are already bent from accidents or they are rusted out. I hope its all behind you now.

And looking at that picture of the cruiser. They would have lengthened the chassi to put that tray on there. But you wouldnt think it would bend so easily running coil springs and rubber bump stops in the rear of that cruiser. Even with a big trailer on it. :(

[finding_time]

At least Land Rovers dont bend or crack...:)

I did see one tear itself in half one day snigging a tree stump!;) Right behind the front wheels , the engine front wheels and gear box kept going and the rest sprang back toward the stump. I have never laughed so much! my ribs ached for days!;D

Yep landies panels dont rust, but there chasies sure do !

YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN TO LOOK ON THE DRIVERS FACE AS HE WAS DUMPED ON THE GROUND!!! Ouch the ribs again!

Ian

[ozscott]

Must have been an old one/mistreated. My 2 discos have been on the beach many times and always properly washed and not one ounce of rust....but lets face it the LR would have to have been rusted to break:)

Cheers

PS. Good yarn though!

[tunaticer]

I worked with a guy who got pinned between the steering wheel and the seat right in the middle of his chest in his old series 2 landy chassis let go internally rusted out.

Jack.

[ozscott]

Fair enough - we are talking 40 year old vehicles here...series II! The Navara was what - new, couple of years old...lets see any chassis in 40 years time:)

[GBC]

That's right Ian, everyone knows in the recent landies the shaft splines would have let go long before enough torque was put through them to spin a tyre let alone rip it in half.;D

[BenDover]

oh the great landy debate again.

[ozscott]

GBC hates landys - he is always thanking people who have a go at them. Good to see your own comments rather than just a thanks for others doing the leg work. Im not going to comment further, as I smirk my way off to Fraser in my Disco...

Cheers

[GBC]

Ohhh don't get me wrong, I really really want to like them. I think that the 130 would be the ultimate vehicle for me - I even test drove the latest one recently with a view to buying one - then a 4wd mag tried to drive one from Sydney to Darwin and it broke down three times on the road - not my idea of a reliable work vehicle.
I must admit the splines joke has to go as I see they are running rangie forged axles now on the defenders. Perhaps they'll finish ironing out the bugs just in time for the end of model run in 18 months?
Have fun on Fraser - I just got back.

[sempre]

Just a question , I havent read all the posts but did it have air bags in it .

[BenDover]

No sempre, you can see by the pictures there are no aids on the leafsprings. But it wouldnt have mattered anyway. As the chassi would have still bent. Its just not strong enough to withstand the down weight and leverage.

[sempre]

Bendover , i didnt mean that it would have helpt it .
I heard that the air bags from a particular manufacturer can be part of the cause .

[ozscott]

Mate - I didnt see the article. Dont know what broke - assume it had diesel engine troubles. Both my Discos are V8s and have never broken a component in the drive train despite one doing 255,000k and the other 135,000 (heavy towing and off roading included) - my 21 foot Vagabond isnt light. The 02 has full German Bosch Motronic engine managment so its a delight there.

My 95 Disco has hollow axles and my 02 model has the range rover axles (solids). You would have to be doing something very wrong to snap one on either vehicle. The point I made was about chassis - the biggest in that line up (and I only made the jibe because someone had made a comment that at least Patrol's dont snap, just bend....which I cannot immagine anyone really thinking is acceptable).

Fraser should be fun. I have done Straddie many times, including towing a 2 tonn dual axle van in the soft sand to Flinders with the Disco.

Cheers:)

[finding_time]

Ozscott

You cant really be defending a Landy's reliability can you? I read a article in a 4x4 mag a year or to ago on vehicle reliability, the stats were compiled from a company offering extended and warranties on new and used vehicles, now you think they would know there stuff otherwise they'll go broke. They rate the most unreliable 4x4 brand the landrover closly followed buy the Jeep.

Like all brands there a lemons in every run of vehicles but landy's just seem to have many more.

Ian

Ps. i get my Nissan serviced at FWD motors ( landy ,range rover specialists ) as i know the owner and mechanic very well, niether drive a landy and wouldn't for the above reasons, there at the coal face and see to many issues! Great for business though!

[BenDover]

They'd be rich!! :)

[ozscott]

Ian - they have had there share of problems...more so than most other marks I admit. However, and this is a big however, most of the problems are with the P38 Range Rover (which was full of bugs!) and as for Disco series II and more recent Deefer, most of that stuff was and is fiddly stuff, not stuff that will leave you and your boat on the beach! The series I disco and range rover was plagued by lucas electronic ignition. Its and easy fix to replace the Lucas dizzy with Australian Bosch which I did. Apart from that the series I disco is very reliable. Nissan and Toyota dont tend to have fiddly issues, but can have monumental ones when they go wrong.

As for the V8s they put up amazing ks, but like any alloy motor they suffer quickly if neglicted in terms of proper coolant.

At the end of the day, even if the LRs were much less reliable than Nissan and Totota (and they are not much less reliable if properly looked after) I would still drive one because they handle very well for a live axle vehicle on road and in stock trim embarrass others off road. I also dig the fun factor and the lack of drab plain interiors - I know that some people are happy to trade the other way around, but thats my (and plenty of other passionate LR owners) take on things.

Cheers

[SeaHunt]

Check out the rear tyres on the nav... Must have had a bit in the rear of tray PLUS the trailer probably full of camping gear and fuel....
Jim

Check out the tyres on any 4WD on Fraser, they all look like that because people let the air out of them.

[Ally Jack]

Have a close look at the towbar tongue as well (pic 2), it looks to be extended and braced to either match the towing hitch height of the trailer or to lift the front of the trailer to stop it digging into the sand...could have contributed to the failure

[hooknline]

Landrovers are good, for artificial reefs, sorry oz!

[Hornblower]

I wonder which he got first, the boat or the Navara? Just curious as I would have liked to know what information was exchanged between the guy who owns the wreck now and the salesman if any of the Navara... "What do you want it for?" "To tow my boat." "No worries", says the salesman thinking it is a 3 metre tinny, "would tow the Queen Mary if you wanted it to."

Seriously though, if the insurance didn't pay out he may have a case if they insured him, took his premiums, knowing that he was towing that boat with that vehicle on beaches, and remember, the surf beach on fraser Island is a gazetted Road, so technically speaking, he hasn't taken it off road. I would love to know what happened with his insurance - What's the chance they didn't pay out.

:( Horny

[Reel Hard]

We had plenty of Patrol cab chassis's at work that would bend at the same point. Loaded within the manufacturers specs. Strengthening plates were installed to the chassis. There was no problems with the older models, it was only when they went to the wide body.