does water police have authority to inspect fish? [Archive] - Ausfish fishing Australia, Australian Angling Forums

oldboot

18-08-2008, 11:51 AM

Hmmm. I'm wondering if water police are trained in spicies identification.

Because both DPI and police are both state authorities they may indeed have the power to issue fines or prosecute offences under any QLD law ( I'd like to know for sure), however I would be interested in what they are qualified and trained to make judgements on.

I know on land they are able to issue notices about automotive defects to a point....( bald tyres, indicators not working basicaly minor defects).... but they can not declare your car unroadworthy or a variety of other matters.( unless it is obvious)....so they either issue a ticket for the pits or they ride with a transport inspector.

So the standard safety stuff is easily their authority, if they were looking at obviously identifiable fish, I can see no reason why they could not zipp you, but if it was a close spicies thing they would need specific training or assistance.

Or would they aprehend you on suspicion then call in a DPI official for a ruling or may be even to prosecute the offence.

I'm sure if it was a "major Bust", like a boat with 50 undersized crabs, they would nab you and a DPI official would turn up at some point.

My understanding is that a QLD police officer can act on a breach of any QLD law.
It gets much more colplex if it is a local government law or a commonwealth law.

The example of that was ( before it was fixed ) booking people for speeding on the airport road.
The QLD police were beyond their diridiction because it was commonwealth land and the feds had a problem because it was QLD laws and fines.
In the short term a QLD police crew would operate the radar trap and issue the fines but there had to be feds there to " authorise" the action.

But I rabbit on.

This QLD government is big on bunging up loop holes so I would not be surpriesed what they can do.

cheers

reelchippy

18-08-2008, 11:54 AM

Hi Guys
Just wanted to know if anyone can clarify this.

Got pulled over by the water police on saturday at the pin and after they checked the customary safety gear, they wanted to see my catch..

as i had been out overnight, i had around 30 fish in the esky of different varieties, 1 of them asked me to pull out ALL of my fish so that he could measure them...
which he did and found all to be of legal size (surprise! surprise!)

was going to give him a gob full but knew that would only mean some sort of fine for me!

do they have the authority to do this?

Lets say you where over the bag limit i would have hoped they would have fine you.They can stop me any time.cheers

Local_Guy

18-08-2008, 12:03 PM

oldboot you will find that the police have had power to fine people speeding on the brisbane airport road for quite some time... i have seen bikie cops there many times. FYI always after it drops from 80 - 60km'h heading into the domestic :)

as for police handing out fines for undersize fish. i would think the police inspecting your catch are water police and would have a very good understanding of what you can/can't have, limits and sizes.

but hey, if you've got nothing to hide, then you've got nothing to fear.

slyman

18-08-2008, 12:21 PM

Yes they do have the authority, this is from the fisheries act:

Part 8 Enforcement; Division 1 Inspectors; Section 140 Appointment
Subsection (1) The chief executive may appoint any of the following persons as inspectors -
(a) employees of the department
(b) officers of the public service
(c) police officers
(d) other persons prescribed under a regulation

Subsection (2) The chief exectutive may appoint a person (other than a police officer) as an inspector only if -
(a) in the chief executives opinion, the person has the necessary expertise or experience to be an inspector; or
(b) the person has satisfactorily finished training approved by the chief executive

So in subsection 2, that suggests that the police would have some sort of training in fisheries matters and species identification and so on.

As an aside, I have been told that any EPA officers on the water have NO authority to do boating and safety checks, that falls outside their jurisdiction. I'm not sure if they can check your catch either, anyone know about that?

Chimo

18-08-2008, 12:37 PM

Also they were probably bits of fishos themselves and apart from doing their job were probably interested to see what was biting!

Cheers
Chimo

liltuffy

18-08-2008, 12:38 PM

As mentioned in another thread, they were probably acting on a report and looking for something in particular. There may have been reports of some illegal activity. Bream with condoms filled with drugs or something....

cheers
Andrew

That's a cracker Andrew, maybe looking for Churchill bream escaped from the luggage point cigar factory.

Craig

SWFISHER

18-08-2008, 01:58 PM

I also was at the Pin on the weekend and did get to talk to them on Saturday, but the funny thing was that on Sunday morning we were fishing with another 5 boats near crusoe when they turn up again, this time to check safety gear. This was prior to high tide, as they turn around a couple of boats and approached me mates boat they run aground on a sandbank. With that creating a little havoc for them they soon got off the bank and in their wisdom decided bugger these guys lets keep in the channel. Anyway we had nothing to hide but you geussed it we all had a good laugh at THEM!! cheers Kevin

the gecko

18-08-2008, 03:53 PM

I know water police write down all rego numbers and check them online, via laptop and sattelite. You should see what happens when water police are going one way, and you go the other way in an unregistered boat. Takes them about 60 sec to check it online, turn around, and nab you. Ive seen it.

So I reckon they had you pegged as being out all nite, from taking down your rego earlier.

I once heard a policeman say that he gets people to do all sorts of things, just to watch their reaction. It tells him a lot about how drunk they are, or if they are hiding something else. This may be what happened to you? Anyway, you did the right thing by not reacting.

And yes they fish, Ive had discussions with them about species and lures, they know their stuff at Southport water police, and are keen fishermen themselves.

Andrew

Lucky_Phill

18-08-2008, 03:59 PM

slyman..... simon is correct.

Water Police have been trained in Fisheries aspects of legislation and are authorised to mirror any DPI&F Officers duties.

I also have it on good authority that should you observe a suspected illegal activity and try to report it to the Fisheries Hotline number that is a 24hr number and have no luck, then call the Brisbane Water Police.

PH 3895 0333

And yes to another comment above.... most members of Brisbane Water Police are fishermen and good blokes to boot. :)

Cheers Phill

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Ozie_3

18-08-2008, 04:14 PM

I approached me mates boat they run aground on a sandbank. but you geussed it we all had a good laugh at THEM!! cheers Kevin

funny that... a mate ran up on a sandbar and while he was pushing it off, a fisheries boat came up and informed him the running aground was a finable offence... he as mariner should know where he is going... and such... they didnt write him up but read him the riot act....wonder if that applies to police too...lol

and yeah the police have the right to inspect your boat , catch and all and issue a ticket for any infringement, even not having rego or capacity lable..as do fisheries and a heap of other government authorities....

the police are the only ones who can breathalyse you, but the others can hold you and call the cops out....

like said before... if you aint doing anything wrong then no worries....
ive been checked by cops in mouth of logan and they were great guys...polite, easy to chat to...couldnt be better...... just treat them the same

cheers Chris

bondy99

18-08-2008, 05:16 PM

Hi Slyman,

Lucky_Phill is spot on. I was doing a Diploma in Seafood Industry (Fisheries Compliance) through Gatetway TAFE at Eagle Farm a few years ago and although I passed and qualified I never got a foot in. We were doing an industry course set up between DPIF and Qld TAFE as it took too long for people doing Diplomas in Marine Resources through uni to be qualified and only to be retrained to the industries standards.....That's the background....Article appeared in an edition of Fishing Monthly magazine...Police trained to undertake Fisheries Inspectors Roles" At the time I phoned Henry Palizuk's Office and it was first denied, then as time went on it was confirmed.

The motto is police have greater powers and can arrest on the spot, Fisheries Officers don't have powers to arrest. A Police Officer has the same authority of Fisheries i.e. take your car, boat, trailer, catch, etc., etc and issue fines etc. The only difference between the two is one can make an arrest whereas the other cannot, but it does pay to cooperate and report illegal activity. Peter

Angla

18-08-2008, 05:57 PM

Even with all the legal speak as to wether they can or cannot, I would gladly oblige any reasonable request and chat while they were doing it so they kept their spirits up. Just because they are doing their job does not mean it has to be all serious. I talk freely to my customers as I do work in their homes and they like that too. Sometimes it just takes someone to start the conversation.

I hope I am always legal with the boat and the catch but there's more chance they might overlook a small infringement if it were a happy meeting and I were trying to comply.

Chris

Camo

18-08-2008, 07:32 PM

I hope I am always legal with the boat and the catch but there's more chance they might overlook a small infringement if it were a happy meeting and I were trying to comply.

Yes they call it the attitude test. If you pass it you have less chance of being fined.

Camo

Horse

18-08-2008, 08:20 PM

Why get too upset? If they are polite I never have any problem with any law enforcement officers checkingme out. I wish there were a lot more on the water to curb some practices that are happening

roz

18-08-2008, 09:41 PM

You will find Police have powers under the fisheries act.

Fisheries officers have powers limited to boating/fishing laws, they can hand out breaches/fines but arrests might be a different matter.

Which ever way it goes I believe there are not enough water police and fisheries out there, one thing is certain, if you give out bad attitude you can expect similar in return, they have a job to do and I back them 100%....

geeeze I would love it if they caught that 1770 crab pot slasher!!!!!!

roz.

jackash

18-08-2008, 09:58 PM

Hmmm. I'm wondering if water police are trained in spicies identification.

I'd like to know this aswell. Got booked at Noosa when the new spped limits had jsut come in. Being from brisbane werent aware of the changes, and slowed up probably 10m past the sign when we realised the speed had changed. Only to be pulled up and booked. Then asked to see our catch. Which was a few giant trevally. The cop commented on it being a few nice goldens. I know its a pretty easy mistake to make, but surely if they are gonna go around checking they should have better than a solid knowledge.

Dont get me wrong, I'm all for checking of sizes and what not if its gonna catch the pr*cks doing the wrong thing, but he obviously had no idea of some of the laws he was potentially booking others for.

aussiebasser

19-08-2008, 08:35 AM

Hi Guys
Just wanted to know if anyone can clarify this.

Got pulled over by the water police on saturday at the pin and after they checked the customary safety gear, they wanted to see my catch..

as i had been out overnight, i had around 30 fish in the esky of different varieties, 1 of them asked me to pull out ALL of my fish so that he could measure them...
which he did and found all to be of legal size (surprise! surprise!)

was going to give him a gob full but knew that would only mean some sort of fine for me!

do they have the authority to do this?

I have to wonder why you would want to "give him a gob full" when he is only doing his job.

Ratman

19-08-2008, 09:32 AM

Doesn't worry me getting checked by the water police.

If fatal accidents on our waterways continue, particularly in SEQ, you would expect to see a lot more of them as well.

Mick

FNQCairns

19-08-2008, 11:10 AM

Doesn't worry me getting checked by the water police.

If fatal accidents on our waterways continue, particularly in SEQ, you would expect to see a lot more of them as well.

Mick

Yeah they also need to do something with our alpine ski slopes, speed limits could apply, so could roving patrols of police, skiing while under the influence - is that allowed?

Sadly I am resigned to the reality of what constitutes and accident and if it happens to me then so be it, looking forward to the drug tests being introduced soon, wonder when on the water? - sometimes very infrequently they regulate in a direction that will make a +ve difference.

cheers fnq

aussiebasser

19-08-2008, 11:45 AM

Yeah they also need to do something with our alpine ski slopes, speed limits could apply, so could roving patrols of police, skiing while under the influence - is that allowed?

Sadly I am resigned to the reality of what constitutes and accident and if it happens to me then so be it, looking forward to the drug tests being introduced soon, wonder when on the water? - sometimes very infrequently they regulate in a direction that will make a +ve difference.

cheers fnq

So you obviously wouldn't have a problem with a drunk speeding in his boat and running into you??? The drink drive laws have a definate positive influence as will the drug laws. If you don't break them you won't have a problem.

oldboot

19-08-2008, 12:37 PM

I think we have to get used to the concept of "flexible law enforcement". in the past there were clearly defined and restrictive boundries between different departments.
I see the government is moving in the direction similar to overseas where there is some crossover between agencies and what would have previously been oficers with very limited powers being given very much broader responsibilities and powers.

cheers

whitingkiller

19-08-2008, 02:41 PM

aussiebasser,

i wanted to give him "a gob full" because i didn't see it necessary for him to measure ALL of my 30 fish that where in the esky..

surely he could have seen the quality that i had and i would have been happy if he wanted to measure a few fish at random..

most of the fish where: bream over 27cm...whiting over 27cm...flathead over 50cm...tailor over 40 cm.....so u can see the fish where not "close" to the minimal legal size....

think it was overkill and he seemed a bit annoyed at the end that he didn't find one undersize (funny that!)

aussiebasser

19-08-2008, 02:54 PM

I'm sure all those that do keep undersize fish store them in their esky on top so the Water Police or Fisheries officers don't need to check all the way to the bottom of the pile. As I said, he's doing what he's been instructed to do, which is trying to protect our fishery. Personally, I thank them for checking, and for putting me on a breath test machine, because I know that they are checking everyone and will catch the bad guys eventually.

FNQCairns

19-08-2008, 03:53 PM

So you obviously wouldn't have a problem with a drunk speeding in his boat and running into you??? The drink drive laws have a definate positive influence as will the drug laws. If you don't break them you won't have a problem.

I am a little lost, drink driving and when introduced the on the spot drug tests will be fine thing this along with the drink driving laws are the only 2 public control regulations introduced in the last 25 years that actually make a bigger difference singular than the number of problems and magnitude they create, sometimes they get it right, infrequent though as all laws read well but hardly ever work as they read. cheers fnq

whitingkiller

19-08-2008, 03:59 PM

castlemaine

19-08-2008, 08:09 PM

When I got pulled up, they were very much reading out off the book but when my daughter offered them a chip out her chippie packet the tune changed to a much more comfortable chat. They did have to consult the book for size/species. As said before, they knew my full name, etc. before I told them, from their laptop. I was surprised that they carried all their gear including holstered firearms. I'm glad they're out there, at least it shows my taxes aren't going to waste in this area.8-)

Horse

19-08-2008, 08:36 PM

you sound like you are a "boy in blue" aussiebasser??

i don't know of anyone that LIKES being pulled over by any authority as you never know if they will issue you with a fine for something minor or if they are having a bad day and you are the unlucky recipient.

Mate, take a break on the attitude

I reckon the more enforcement there is the better. If the rules and regulatons that are in place now are not enforced effectively then people will think they can safetly run the gauntlet for undersize or shamatuer catches. This will lead to tighter restrictions ahgain flaunted by the minority of wrong doers.
I have found the inspections to be quick and friendly in most cases. If you are caught out then its your own fault. Check your gear and you should be right when they drop in for a visit

Pridey

19-08-2008, 08:36 PM

What about GBRMPA those guys, was pproahed by them on the weeknd they asked about our know went ledge of zones etc... I told them I had charts and stuff, they then approached another boat that was pretty much fishing in a green zone and gave them this waterproof zoning map...! do they have any powers ?

aussiebasser

19-08-2008, 09:04 PM

you sound like you are a "boy in blue" aussiebasser??

i don't know of anyone that LIKES being pulled over by any authority as you never know if they will issue you with a fine for something minor or if they are having a bad day and you are the unlucky recipient.

Not a boy in blue, far from it. I've been booked for speeding both in my car and in my boat. Yep, I was speeding and I knew the consequences. I paid the fines and took the lectures that were due to me. The guys are doing a job and I can see no valid reason for having a shot at them for doing it. The more catches they inspect, the more miscreants they'll find. Why not make the experience as pleasant as possible and get back to fishing.

roz

19-08-2008, 09:12 PM

Hornet Rider

20-08-2008, 10:59 AM

Sorry whitingkiller, but I'm getting the same messge/attitude from you as Neil (horse).

Can't see a problem with anybody being thorough in their job. I happen to know a fisheries officer in the Gladstone area. If he wanted to measure every fish I had on my boat, I would be more than happy for him to do so & I wouldn't be offended.

I am 100% certain if he ever pulled me over on the water, I would be treated the same as everyone else.

As it turned out, I was checked by one of his co workers on my last visit up there, I was so nervous it took me 10 minutes to find my boat license LOL.

I understand you might feel a bit put out, but they are just doing their job.

r.

Roz, '10 mins to find your boat license'? Did the Qld guy ask you to show a boat license? Is that because your boat is registered in NSW? I think the only way to get a copy of a Qld recreational boat license is under the new system where it's now shown on your drivers license at renewal time. cheers, Mark

Bob H

20-08-2008, 07:32 PM

Bob H

20-08-2008, 07:42 PM

i hate when people copperbash,then when something goes missing, or a jet skier goes too close to you ,or a frantic wife worried that her husband is overdue,no copperbashing then, these poor blokes have to find the drowned toddler,tell the parents,pull half eaten shark victims out of the water ,rotten floaters,suicide jumpers, etc...........give them a break

oldboot

20-08-2008, 10:21 PM

Of course the low life, undersized, fish taking scum would have their legal fish on the top and the undersized ones on the bottom of the esky now wouldnt they.

I had a chat with a motorbike copper down the wello point ramp this afternoon.......no third degree, but you could see he was having a look at the rig.... and anything else going on.......I don't think he had his nickometer turned up high...... but he said that they always have a look around if they're in the area, just in case someone is doing something silly or blaitant.......Basicaly applying repellant;D

I note that he didn't come over to me till the boat was straped on, lights & plate mounted and looking like ready to go.........I don't think he would have beeen at all interested in my catch, but you can bet your boots he would have had a closer look if my trailer or vehicle looked dodgy.........I can guarantee he would have had a breathaliser on him somewhere.

cheers

mik01

22-08-2008, 12:07 AM

oldboot

22-08-2008, 08:56 AM

I missed the local guy post the first time arround.
The QLD police most certainly do have powers on airport land these days and have done for many years but that was not the case up until some time in the late eighties early nineties, from my understanding.

The point I was making about water police is that most of the size and bag limits are easy enough to ajudicate but some of the close spicies could be beyond their expertiese.

Afterall an undersized crab is easy enough to spot.

Any way I think all the various authorities have been given the mail on being out there and being visible in relation to various boating & fishing matters in the last year or so after a couple of nasty incidents.

cheers

mudrunner

22-08-2008, 09:00 AM

some here have been brainwashed into accepting the police state. so affected are they, that they are now encouraging it!!!!!!

take a video camera with you and film the lot. you got rights. make sure they know it.

oldboot

22-08-2008, 11:19 AM

Spinner mate you wounldn't know a police state if it bit you on the @R$#.

Make that sort of comment arround people who have lived under surpression and you will most likely get more than an ear full.

Spend some time in northern eurpoe, china or the US ( especialy as a negro) and it will give you a better appreciation of our local laws and officials.

If you have a problem with the coppers perhaps you need to ammend your attitude.

cheers

mudrunner

22-08-2008, 05:59 PM

Camo

24-08-2008, 10:55 AM

no. no problem. you seem to have a vested interest......cops harrasing fishermen...who ever heard of such crap!!???

i still say TAKE A HANDY CAM, and use it......we all know power goes to some peoples heads. be they cops or anyone else....

I hear what you're saying mate we've all had run ins with traffic cops. But if this was a police state, the moment you produced a camera you'd be thrown overboard, closely followed by your camera.
There are different types of coppers Traffic, General Duties, and Water police. Water police love boating and fishing, if they didn't wouldn't last long there. They understand where you're coming from, the last thing they're interested in is harassing you.

Camo

roz

24-08-2008, 04:45 PM

Roz, '10 mins to find your boat license'? Did the Qld guy ask you to show a boat license? Is that because your boat is registered in NSW? I think the only way to get a copy of a Qld recreational boat license is under the new system where it's now shown on your drivers license at renewal time. cheers, Mark

well it felt like ten minutes... lucky for me I had just renewed it, although a tad late due to mail being redirected to my place up there.

I hold a NSW boat license, and at the time i was operating my boat in a 6 knot area, don't think I needed to show a license for that, just boat rego. Still did anyway, doesn't worry me. Also got pulled over for randoms, and the officer asked me if my boat was registered (I was towing boat on the trailer at the time)... well as far as I know, only the trailer had to be registered as I was on the highway when I was waved over, and not the water, so why go and point that out to him??? The point is, why get huffy for something really minor like that.

I would like to see more police and fisheries officers on the job. It's only the idiots that need to worry.

r.

davez104

24-08-2008, 05:08 PM

I'm the same as most, and don't have a problem with anybody measuring my catch. I allways get a bit nervous just the same when the pull me up, just trying to run everything through my head to make sure I have done it all right. Wondering if I've identified everything correctly, did I measure that smallish looking trout right?
oh cr@p, did we cut the fins off them all?? You know the stuff that you think about when they are doing their inspection.

But, they have a job to do and good on em for doing it.

Dave.

mudrunner

25-08-2008, 09:15 AM

bushbeachboy

25-08-2008, 10:06 AM

i dunno. i just feel we need them less in our leasure time and more on our streets...

id sooner see cops on suburban streets slowing down the hoons and speeders, so our kids can ride their pushies round like we used to.....

I agree with you to a degree Spinner. I'd like to see that too, and also more drug enforcement, and action against burglars and car thieves and kiddy fiddlers, rapists, murderers etc etc.

At them moment a lot of money is put toward the enforcement of the more serious crimes and only a little bit towards the rest. I think that's how it should be, but I don't think for a minute that their should be a lawless environment on our waterways.

The small amount of enforcement that is done is ok by me, and keeps the worst of the morons under control.

mudrunner

25-08-2008, 10:22 AM

where did these morons suddenly come from? where were they in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's,.....? or are we just being TOLD we need more regulations, more government, more harasment? what has changed in reality? NOTHING. more likely, an increased police presence is to enforce the unpopular new green inspired moreton bay fishing restrictions.........

oldboot

25-08-2008, 11:19 AM

No the reason there is more activity, particularly concerning boating issues is that there have been several very nasty, very public boating acidents where people have been killed and or badly injured and mostly due to ignorance of basic boating rules.

You would be singing another tune if it was your daughter who was killed by an unlicenced speeding jetskier in a 6 knot no wash area.

You don't have to look very far to find someone rightly complaining about boating stupiditiy or outright carelessness.

speeding
drunkedness
inadequate safety gear
unlicenced drivers
children without life jackets
and on and on

There is some sort of attitude that boats are some sort of play toy and people will be far more careless and reckless about and with their boats than they would be in their car.

You just have to go down a boat ramp or be on the water to see all manner of foolishness.

Just how many boat trailers would pass a machinery inspection.

The government has realised that the water is underinforced, they are recruting more boating & fisheries patrol oficers, more marine park rangers and the water police have never been more visible.
They are out all hours and days.

Don't expect it to get any softer.
They have already increased the requirements for the PWC licence.
One more serious accident and you can be guaranteed that the RMDL will get revised and probably get split for boat size.
If we get national standardisation we will all be wearing life jackets all the time like the victorians.
As far as boating regulation, in QLD we have it very very easy.

Think about this, recreational motor viehicle use is far more stricly controlled than the general public. Try building a hot rod or a road going race car and see what you have to deal with. Even the simplest modifications require engineering approval and endless paperwork......use you car for a " sporting use" and you insurance is void.

What we have to do to stay compliant in a small boat is very simple and not difficult or expensive to do or difficult to understand.

What they are inspecting for has not changed in 40 years ( appart from reasonably small detail).
The first thing they look for is, was and always will be floatation..... count the people then count the life jackets/ rafts.
Then they will move on thu the safety equipment starting with flares.

What they could do
Require mandatory seaworthyness inspections of all registered craft, they already do on all commercial craft.

Require wearing of life jackets on all open boats all the time. Check out victoria

Apply the same alcahol restrictions that apply to motor vehicles......it is illegal to have an open alcahol container in a motor vehicle on a public road in QLD.
This may mean no drinking unless in a designated mouring.

Zero blood alcahol content for skippers.....even when at anchor

Require a whole lot stricter licencing arrangements. How about a open coxwains ticket for anything over 20 feet.

require a recusitation certicicate 12 months current to be in charge of a boat or a current full first aid certificate.

Enforcing vehicle confiscation on the water for repeat offenders for licencing, DUI and hooning issues

make boating insurance and membership of a rescue organisation compulsory.

Require every boat beyond smooth water to carry a radio, log on and off and keep a radio watch.

Require an eperb in the bay.

Require reinbursment for search and rescue operations.

make inflatable life jackets illegal

and on and on

These may seem a bit far fetched to some but to a conservative politician they might look real good.... AND...... all of them are in place at some level in an area not much different from recreational boating.

Be happy and behave yourself it could all get a lot harder and more inconvienient.
All it will take is a major accident and the politicians under media preasure think "They should do something".

cheers

mudrunner

25-08-2008, 11:47 AM

many great examples of over policing.....

thanks for that.....

zero alcohol for a skipper.....how bout random drug tests for policemen and women....?

Lucky_Phill

25-08-2008, 12:33 PM

Thanks oldboot, your post is a breath of fresh air to this topic.

I applaud your contribution, observations and suggestions.

Some of the items you mentioned above would seem appropriate in this day and age and I for one would not find a problem with them.

A lot of members here have contributed to this topic with emotion and commonsense, which probably is better than we get from the makers of the laws. The Officers that inforce the law are simply the messenger... there is a saying there somewhere ???? :-/ ;D

Phill
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peterbo3

25-08-2008, 01:06 PM

"and on and on".

Boot,
You can't legislate to make idiots smart people. Just have a look at the fatalities on the roads. Despite RBTs, unmarked police cars, increased fines, holiday traffic blitzes & huge amounts of money spent on Road Safety campaigns, lots of people are dying. And plenty of those are drunk, speeding or both.
In the big scheme of things, boating accidents and deaths in Qld, taking into account the number of boats on the water, are not even high, let alone out of control. Stuff happens out there on the water & all the laws in the world will not help someone make the correct decision at a critical moment.
There will always be safety issues with boating. It is the nature of the beast. Humans do not have fins & gills. More laws & restrictions are not the answer. Current legislation is designed to regulate the vast majority of boaters who are willing to follow the rules & act sensibly. The tiny minority who choose to disregard the current rules will certainly disregard any tougher controls.
And as for the dickheads, no law ever written will change them.

mudrunner

25-08-2008, 01:14 PM

if police and the law makers want to get fair dinkum about responsibility, weather it be on the water, on the road, etc....they also must be as accountable as the public, in direct relationship to the responsibility they posess.

police carry guns, are sometimes involved in high speed persuits, must deal with life threatening situatios, handle sensitive personal information and enforce laws on illicit drugs..and often involves the confiscation of large ammouts of money or assets, which in itself poses extra temptation and responsibility of police and law enforcement.

if motorists are restricted in their alcohol intake, and have 'RANDOM ' drug and alcohol tests enforced on them, and boat skippers have RANDOM D&A tests enforced on them, i see no problem with enforcing RANDOM D&A tests on police, considering the huge responsibilities they have to the public..

what could be fairer than that?

bushbeachboy

25-08-2008, 02:42 PM

edited by moderator...sorry !

mudrunner

25-08-2008, 02:50 PM

how.....is that picking on coppers..??? why shouldnt they be subject to the same scruitiny as the public?

oldboot

25-08-2008, 11:19 PM

Just to clarify my points earlier.

The entire and lengthy post, does not neccesarily represent my preference on matters, more how I see things and measure you could reasonably expect government to be considering.

Spinner mate you do have a problem ?

If people holding the same attitude and opinion as yourself had any knowledge about what coppers are subjected to (post fitzgerald) you would not be carrying on so. If a copper gets done for DUI, its is a matter that can result in his discharge from the force.
If a police officer gets so much as a minor traffic violation they can be hauled over the coals and asked for am explanation, if a probationary constable gets a traffic ticket he/ she can be out on their ear.
A copper can at any time be subjected to drug an alcohol tests if there is any reasonable suspicion of a problem.

Being a police officer in QLD is one of the most regulated and strigently supervised jobs there is.

They are subject to the same random tests on the road when out of uniform.
And I think you will find that such things as random drug and alcohol testing on duty and integrity tests are gaining support in police forces all over the country.

If people holding the similar attitude and opinions that you represented in your post and transfered it to the daily life , I can guarantee you are going to generate your own problems with the police, and it won't be their fault.
Perhaps people need to be more careful about what they do, just because they are on your day off, doesn't mean the law has a holiday too.

cheers

mudrunner

26-08-2008, 06:48 AM

Spinner mate you do have a problem ?

no. i have an OPINION. you are using negative association. im not your mate and i have no problem...

And I think you will find that such things as random drug and alcohol testing on duty and integrity tests are gaining support in police forces all over the country.

so while you say i have a problem, you admit my position is 'gaining support in police forces all over the country......'

If people holding the similar attitude and opinions that you represented in your post and transfered it to the daily life , I can guarantee you are going to generate your own problems with the police, and it won't be their fault.

by having an opinion, standing up for my rights, and being in agreement with (increasing members) of "police forces all over the country", it may well be you that ends up with the problems...
also. if i do nothing wrong, how will i get problems with the police??? oh, you mean police wont like it if i state i have rights in certain situations, and are prepared to exercise them? in which case you admit that police can be overbearing? and wont admit fault?

Perhaps people need to be more careful about what they do, just because they are on your day off, doesn't mean the law has a holiday too.

that, is a thinly veiled threat. people need police LESS in their leasure times, unless ASKED for.

Camo

26-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Posted by oldboot

make inflatable life jackets illegal

Why, I love inflateables.

No, not that sort, get your mind out of the gutter.

Camo

Fish Guts

28-08-2008, 10:20 AM

well said old boot.

JIMBO99

28-08-2008, 12:06 PM

Jimbo99
WAnt to hear something really funny? years ago I was fishing along the ref edge on the south western edge of Horseshoe bay, when a brand new high speed police boat, about 25ft came roaring out of horse shoe and headed directly for the beacon off southwest rocks I realized that it was half tide down and haved madly at the skipper, nice bloke, he waved back and kept to his course. he got about two hundred yards more along his course then was crunched into the rubble in about 3ft of water the boat was still there at low tide when i went home but it was really high and dry / CANT WIN 'EM all. wonder if he got fined for running aground//

theoldlegend

29-08-2008, 01:32 PM

I've been following this thread with interest, and have noticed that the posts have tended to get a bit off topic.

I was required to go to the Redland Bay police station this morning and I saw a Water Police guy there, so I asked him the question about the exact topic of this thread: Do you guys have authority to inspect fish?

His answer was:

We have to do an accreditation course with DPI & Fisheries to be able to inspect fish and determine whether those fish on board meet the regulations as to size, bag limits etc. We can do other accreditation courses that enable us to carry out further inspections in conjunction with the various regulations as they apply to commercial vessels and/or private vessels.

He went on to say that they have been out in the bay and they've seen ethnics fishing out there throwing dead undersize fish overboard as they've approached and then have denied all knowledge of where the fish came from while they're floating past on the surface. Apparently the water police have no power to act if they are not accredited by Fisheries, but there are more ways to skin a cat, according to him.

I hope this clears up any confusion about the topic. Somebody from DPI may be able to confirm this.

Regards,

TOL

reidy

29-08-2008, 03:07 PM

Yep they do in Tassie
Cheers
Reidy

Stan53

06-09-2008, 02:45 PM

Police are paid to enforce the law. They do not create it. The politicians make the laws. Most people (including police) react to the manner in which they are treated.

Most (not all) laws have been created to protect decent citizens from idiots who think they have the right to annoy everybody else with noise, assault, alcohol/drug fueled excessive behaviour and creating a wake in their boat near anchored boats, that you could surf on. Then when they get caught they have rights. They certainly do have rights - but so do I - the main right is to enjoy my life without idiots forcing their behaviour on me and my family.

craig51063

06-09-2008, 06:05 PM

while staying at byron bay a couple of years ago i witnessed about 8 tourist [ not australian and taking lots of photos ]collecting pipis of the main beach .and they had hundreds of them !!!!! i asked the tour guied what are you going to do with all those pipis and he said . were goin to eat them .i new what he was doing was illeagal so i called the police and they were NOT interesred saying " its got nothing to do with us call the fisheries "!!!!!!!!! so i did and had to leave a message on an answering machine ....after a heated discusion with the tour guied he decided to release the pipis [ something i was doing during the discusion ] so why didnt the police step in when they were told about this .
the place is now a marine park and the likes of me and other responsable fisher folk who do the right thing have been locked out of this fantastic fishery VERY VERY SAD !!!!!!

oldboot

06-09-2008, 09:19 PM

I have to say that NSW does not seem to be as progressive as QLD in this flexible policing.... I think in qld it is a necessity because in remote areas on or two blokes do the lot for large areas.

"People need less police in their leasure time"...What a crock.....

The vast majority of crime an violence is while the perpitrators are away from paid employment.

The vast majority of I'd say almost all illegal activity associated with recreational boating and fisheries is while the perpitrators are away from paid employment.

As for those who throw evidence overboard......... yeh the fuzz are wise to that one to.
they have a couple of solutions to that......... why do you think "in field video" is gaining such popularity worldwide. It will soon be as common as voice recording...A large proportion of police record every word while in public contact on a digital recorder......it may or may not be admissable as evidence... but they have accurate information about what was said.... that can be a strong basis for questioning.

Now here is what the do when they are realy on their toes.
they wait at the boat ramp well out of sight with a clear view of the approach.
They watch approaching craft thu the binoculars...... they wait till you have your boat on the trailer and well out of the water.... and bussy tying down
THEN they come in for a look.
Undersized fish..... bang to rights with no oportunity to throw overboard
various safety gear...... they have watched you come in..... they know the extents of smooth water they know how many on board and who was driving.... they have probly already checked the rego on the boat and car
If you came in too hot, they will get you for excessive speed and wash.... how many people come in to close to the ramp too fast.
If you didn't have appropriate nav lights lit at night or especilay if your all round white was obscured... they will have you.

And they dodn't even get their feet wet or have the expense of running and cleaning a boat...........they can hit quite a few ramps in a shift or check all trafic on a single ramp over most of a day.
We all have to go to a ramp sometime.
Cheap efficient, smart.
And they are doing it.
at vicky point thay can see for miles from the top of the hill. Similar at manly and wello.

I will not be surprised when ( I say when) we see unmarked government boats.

I'm also waiting to hear about combined boat ramp blitzes like they have on the road, Police, transport inspectors & fisheries.

they have combined on road operations regularly....... They love that park near the butter factor down at kingston, anywhere ther is a big government controlled roadside car park on a bussy road is fair game. they had a trailer blitz at the dumps a few years ago.

It pays to cover your donkey.

cheers

bushbeachboy

07-09-2008, 09:39 AM

Now here is what the do when they are realy on their toes.
they wait at the boat ramp well out of sight with a clear view of the approach.
They watch approaching craft thu the binoculars...... they wait till you have your boat on the trailer and well out of the water.... and bussy tying down
THEN they come in for a look.
Undersized fish..... bang to rights with no oportunity to throw overboard
various safety gear...... they have watched you come in..... they know the extents of smooth water they know how many on board and who was driving.... they have probly already checked the rego on the boat and car
If you came in too hot, they will get you for excessive speed and wash.... how many people come in to close to the ramp too fast.
If you didn't have appropriate nav lights lit at night or especilay if your all round white was obscured... they will have you.

And they dodn't even get their feet wet or have the expense of running and cleaning a boat...........they can hit quite a few ramps in a shift or check all trafic on a single ramp over most of a day.
We all have to go to a ramp sometime.
Cheap efficient, smart.
And they are doing it.
at vicky point thay can see for miles from the top of the hill. Similar at manly and wello.

cheers

oldboot I wish they'd do some of this in NQ.
Cheers

castlemaine

07-09-2008, 06:40 PM

make inflatable life jackets illegal

Cheers

My wife insisted I wear a life jacket when I go out on my own. I appreciate the the good advise and concern, so I bought a manual gas-inflatable life jacket (the one you have to pull the cord).
Do you considered this type of PFD dangerous and why?
Cheers 8-)

Stan53

07-09-2008, 07:48 PM

My wife insisted I wear a life jacket when I go out on my own. I appreciate the the good advise and concern, so I bought a manual gas-inflatable life jacket (the one you have to pull the cord).
Do you considered this type of PFD dangerous and why?
Cheers 8-)

It appears she cares about you. Scary ::). I think anyone who fishes on their own should wear some safety device. I think it is sound judgment as if you fall out without the vest you are on your own and help can be a long time coming. I haven't heard anything against wearing vests and if you look at the professional fishing competitions they are all wearing one. I think it is a great idea and if I fished on my own I would certainly be investing it one.;D

bassfan

07-09-2008, 09:14 PM

The WP have the same authority as other cops ie. "just about anything".

bassfan

07-09-2008, 09:21 PM

The motto is police have greater powers and can arrest on the spot, Fisheries Officers don't have powers to arrest. A Police Officer has the same authority of Fisheries i.e. take your car, boat, trailer, catch, etc., etc and issue fines etc. The only difference between the two is one can make an arrest whereas the other cannot, but it does pay to cooperate and report illegal activity. Peter[/quote]

All true the Police have powers under most if not all state legislation "The Tarpaulan Act" (covers everything), however they lack the required expertise in a lot of it including fisheries stuff. I used to work for QB & FP & to my knowledge the waterpolice never did any fisheries related enforcement work due to lack of interest, lack of knowledge, or higher priority work load.

These guys were either bored or keen fishos themselves who decided to do some fisheries compliance duties. Treat them with respect and don't break the law and it's all good...!

One other difference between the two is the cops carry guns & DPI Fisheries don't...!

Cheers

Bassfan

oldboot

07-09-2008, 11:08 PM

I have been considering an inflatable but I can see both sides of the situation.

wearing a normal PFD all the time would be a pain in the kneck, so an inflatable is attractive.
Certainly if you end up in the drink I would be happy to have the thing on.

however I can see that it would not be too hard to puncture one on rocks or wreckage.

I have heard mumblings that they may not be considered adequate under some circumstances by some authorities and may be made non compliant for some situations in the future.

I would like to know more..

cheers

Stan53

08-09-2008, 07:51 PM

In Queensland they qualify as PFD 1 and are acceptable to the Boating and Fisheries. Check with your state - also check reviews on the web that sometimes comes up with interesting information.:)

bassfan

08-09-2008, 08:43 PM

A bit off topic but anyway....... In NSW the orally inflated type PFD1's are NOT considered a lifejacket. The type with a CO2 cylinder that you either activate manually or automatically when you fall in are acceptable but need to be annually serviced (@$40). I reckon the way to go is to have conventional PFDs readily accessible on board & if you like the idea to wear the auto inflating type as well. That way you are covered legally even if your PFD hasn't been serviced by having the others on board.

Bassfan

oldboot

09-09-2008, 11:05 AM

NEWBY

10-09-2008, 11:58 AM

Hi Guys
Just wanted to know if anyone can clarify this.

Got pulled over by the water police on saturday at the pin and after they checked the customary safety gear, they wanted to see my catch..

as i had been out overnight, i had around 30 fish in the esky of different varieties, 1 of them asked me to pull out ALL of my fish so that he could measure them...
which he did and found all to be of legal size (surprise! surprise!)

was going to give him a gob full but knew that would only mean some sort of fine for me!

do they have the authority to do this?
ALL law enforcement officers are "honorary fisheries and wildlife inspectors"
I have a mate who was a cop.
Seriously though, does it matter? If you dont have anything illegal in ya esky, ya got nothing to worry about. i have found ALL water poice to be pretty good.

Jeremy

10-09-2008, 12:44 PM

I haven't heard anything against wearing vests

Who have you talked to? There are some sound arguements against wearing life jackets. Pros and cons for different boats and different situations. You need to do some more research.

Jeremy

Dignity

20-09-2008, 07:27 AM

Any of the inflatables that meet the standard should be acceptable.

What the view is on servicing.... Hmm i'd be interested.

if it is an offence to have out of date flares aboard.... even with in date ones onboard too.

I suspect that an out of date PFD may be in the same boat (so to speak).

Now to be compliant. do you have to have the PFD serviced by a certified person or can you do it your self?
How then do you become certified?

and so on.

I can see why the mumblings about inflatables.

cheers
OB, not only check the date but check the gas cylinder after every use and make sure there are no surface rust spots appearing as that will make them "unservicable". I think there is a bit of tolerance depending on who inspects you but there will always be the sour puss that wants to fine you.

oldboot

20-09-2008, 11:12 AM

Hmm the cost of ownership on these inflatables is looking higher.

I think I'll be getting me an up market rigid vest... all you have to do with that is keep it clean & out of the sun.

cheers

lutjanus

23-09-2008, 05:47 PM

I only read the first page so it probably has already been covered, They can't do anything to give you a fine however they can have a look in your esky and measure fish for the purpose of gathering suspicion of a crime. They would then refer that suspicion(and may detain you) to the DPI who have the training and are covered under the appropriate legislation, water police are not covered under fisheries Legislation.

heath7162

23-09-2008, 07:16 PM

Lutjanus, what legislation do you base your opinion on?

Have you had a look at this?

FISHERIES ACT 1994 - SECT 140

140 Appointment
(1) The chief executive may appoint any of the following persons as inspectors--

(a) employees of the department;
(b) officers of the public service;
(c) police officers;
(d) other persons prescribed under a regulation. (2) The chief executive may appoint a person (other than a police officer) as an inspector only if--

(a) in the chief executive's opinion, the person has the necessary expertise or experience to be an inspector; or
(b) the person has satisfactorily finished training approved by the chief executive.

lutjanus

30-09-2008, 11:58 AM

How many police officers do you know who have been appointed by the chief executive to be covered under this legislation? There is a big MAY in your post. What sane person(who is a cop) would actually give a fine and just get it thrown out of court because the laywer of the defendant would tear you a new one? they would be made a fool of. Aint going to happen!
I can just see a centrelink employee running around in his tinnie now trying to give out fines too lol.

oldboot

30-09-2008, 02:02 PM

This is looking like some issues discussed in another thread.

the concept of being appointed...... and so on

The concept of being appointed or directed or instructed... by the commissioner or minister or chief exectutive for whatever....... its a legal phrase the truth of the process is far more mundane & routine.

In this day an age there is a training course for just about everything.
So you have someone, possibly a police officer, maybe a ranger or wahtever.

so you send them on a training course, they pass an exam, a week or so later they get a letter or a certificate or maybe just an email..."appointing them" as whatever.

It has been that way for centurues.......particularly in a colonial context.

In a small place, just about any government officer may be appointed in a variety of roles. In a country town a police officer may be appointed to examine driving tests, in many small places the magistrates court transacts all sorts of government business..... and so on.

So haveing police trained and appointed in roles that you may not expect will be far more common that a lot of people would imagine.

cheers

brisbane

01-10-2008, 05:08 PM

I can't see a police officer trying to apply a law for something they are not employed specifically for. They are smarter than that and would call the appropriate people if they suspected something.

gawby

02-10-2008, 12:08 AM

All of this sh1t that everone is going on about has been covered before as stated and this is getting very boring.
At the end of the day if you have everything in order and either the police or the fisheries come and inspect you, so what.
GET OVER IT.
Graeme

Lovey80

02-10-2008, 04:53 AM

On the police thing I am in the same boat as old boot.

On the PDF thing........ I did an open water sea survival course when I was in the Army in 2006. The course was aimed at those that regularly fly in choppers over open water and was run at the navy base in Nowra NSW. It was one of the best 2 days training i had in the army. It was actually run by 2 civillians and would highly recommend the Sea Survuval part of the course to anyone going offshore (guessing the escape from enclosed choppers underwater part is kind of irrelevant) Not sure if they do civillian courses but will find out and start another thread. They used the inflatable PDF's in the training and had only positive comments on them. I will be refitting my boat with them very soon.

Just my thoughts

Cheers

Chris