Review of Rocky Reef Fin Fishery

[dayoo]

Fisheries is conducting a review of the Rocky reef fin fishery including a review of Snapper, Pearl Perch and Jew bag and size limits in Queensland. The difference in size and bag limits of these species between Qld and NSW is also on the agenda.

I have been nominated by a Moderator of Ausfish to be one of the three representatives of the interests of recreational fishing. I will attend a working group at the Gold Coast on Monday and Tuesday 4 and 5 August. The working Group has representatives from recreational fishing (3), commercial fishing (3), Charter fishing (2), retail tackle industry (2) and various reps from Fisheries both Qld and NSW.

Sadly I will miss out on a trip on "Alexander" planned for Monday 4 Aug to chase snapper on the Barwon Banks.

My mind is open at this stage and I note that there will be public meetings arranged during August - early September for comments on any proposals arising from the working group.

As far as I am aware I am the only member of Ausfish on the working group so any constructive thoughts and ideas on this matter are welcomed.

Cheers
Barry

[Leighton]

I dont have any problem with the current bag limit of 5 Snaps per person here in Qld. I would like to see a boat limitin place.
However the size limit of 35cm should be increased and as for NSW being 30cm, thats a joke
Just my opinion

[outsiderskip]

hi barry
i did not see any nominations put forward
and what makes you qualified to speak on behalf of ausfish members

pete

[PinHead]

don't change anything without some form of positive evidence that would warrant changes..sick of changes being made based on nothing.

[dayoo]

Pete,

The working group was formed last month but one of the three representatives of recreational fishermen pulled out due to family reasons. Fisheries had to find a replacement at short notice and contacted one of the Ausfish moderators.
A few quick PM's and subsequent phone calls resulted in me getting the gong as I have no work commitments.

I am not speaking on behalf of Ausfish members but as a recreational fisherman with over 50 years practical experience fishing offshore SE Qld and northern NSW.

If the Moderator was given more time I am sure he would have called for nominations.

Cheers
Barry

[outsiderskip]

this will not be a tussel bewtween prof and recs
.it will affect everyonewe all need to unite in this and another battle to come the marine park

pete

[Lucky_Phill]

Barry.

I support the idea of cross border regulations.

Species that are in this area are Snapper, Trag and Pearlies, therefore a commonsense approach is warranted.

I have read the Fisheries report on the Rocky Reef Fin Fish and the ONLY area that Snapper are seen to be under extreme pressure and in decline was off the Gold Coast. This, as explained in the report, was due to charter operators and population base and only effected the close inshore fishery.

I would like to see not only discussion, but movement on the introduction of Artificial Reefs. There is no time available to ' think ' about these. The impending implimentation of Green Zones this year suggests that artri's need to be ' underway ' asap.

Any and all changes must be made according to independent scientific research, anecdotal evidence and Government funded research. This along with the " wild stocking ' program needs to be seriously looked at.

Good luck Barry.


cheers Phill

[TimiBoy]

this will not be a tussel bewtween prof and recs
.it will affect everyonewe all need to unite in this and another battle to come the marine park

pete

Disagree. The representative pros will push their own barrow. Probably want to limit us to 1 snapper each per month between 65 and 67 cm, but they'll want to be able to fill their eskies and sell them when and where they want without filling out their logs. The pros blame rec guys for everything now, don't they?

If the opportunity comes for the pros to sacrifice us in order to keep their arrangements, we'll be on the altar like a seagull on chips.

I think each group will be interested in their own agenda. Hopefully the rec guys will be able to tie the whole thing up with a balanced perspective. No one else is there with anything less than their income tied up in maintaining or improving their view of the status quo.

Is Bill Corten still on there Phill?

Tim

[Jeremy]

Fisheries is conducting a review of the Rocky reef fin fishery including a review of Snapper, Pearl Perch and Jew bag and size limits in Queensland. The difference in size and bag limits of these species between Qld and NSW is also on the agenda.
Barry

I thought jewies were already under review as part of the East Coast Fin Fishery and the proposal was for a new size limit of 75cm? Or do you mean trag jew?

I would like to see the size limit of snapper increased to 40cm, but I don't think the pros will support this. They need the plate size pinkies for the restaurants.

Jeremy

[Lucky_Phill]

all answers here.

It is the sticky post first in the news forum.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=135505

[GES]

While you are at these meetings and listening to the proposals and claims, Please be mindful that any proposal to DECREASE the recreational share of the fishery (by either pushing up size limits for rec fishers and/or pushing down the recreational bag limits) WITHOUT a decrease in the allowable catch quota of professionals and similar reductions on charterboat operators, will simply give the pros and charterboat operators a bigger share of the available resource.
It will not significantly reduce the total take of that species in a particular area.

The Fisheries Act commits the Government to make arrangements for fair sharing of the available resource and they don't always do that when the Minister gets lobbied hard by the commercial representatives.

So, If the recreational sector gets reductions, make sure the pros and charter operators get equal and real reductions on their fishing effort and catch quota, not just some token to satisfy the punters.

GES

[blue_mako]

Ges,

from the pros Ive talked to they dont have any quotas its open slather, most dont know they are totally unmanaged unlike rec fishos..

[outsiderskip]

tim
this is just the beginning
we dont need hot heads in this fight
we stick together u might all get something but go alone no one will win
just got a bigger battle to come

pete

[Stuart]

This is exactly what we don’t need, pro’s versus the rec guy’s. I’m sick to death of hearing guys on this site and many others crying how the pros have no management to watch them. What a load of crap, the pro’s have more hoops to jump through, more red tape to deal with, more laws to deal with, more restrictions placed on them every year its not funny. I have heard it from both sides and it rely comes down to a lack of understanding, if both sides joined forces we may just get what we want. The government loves it when to sides can’t get together, it gives them more power to do what the hell they want.

I’m not a pro but have worked on many line fishing boats over the years and I can tell you now that if any of you think the commercial line fisherman are wiping out stocks you need your head read. There are 1500 L1 licenses in QLD which only around 20 operate out of the Sunshine Coast. Out of those 1500 L1 licenses less than 1/3 are active QLD wide. Rec fisherman are some of the biggest hypocrites alive, we scream for scientific proof why the government closes reef systems yet we don’t need any when we start throwing mud at the pro’s. We make all these accusations with out any evidence or figures to back them up.

Many would love to see pro’s gone for good. How would you feel if their was a large group trying to get you out of your living, how are you going to pay the mortgage, feed and clothe the kids? If the shoe was on the other foot I’m sure you would be singing a different note. Instead of bitching and mud slinging try and find out some facts before going of. We all share the same resource and we all need to look after it.

Stu

[outsiderskip]

ty stu
at least someone agrees to a senisible cause

pete

[TimiBoy]

Grim reality is, after all, just that.

There is no point in getting all huggy and kissy about the pro guys wanting to share the load with the recs. They couldn't give a stuff if we were banned from fishing altogether, because it's their livelihood.

There are just as many rec fishos who disobey the rules as there are pro's; I wouldn't claim for a second that we shouldn't have pro's. I believe policing needs to get a lot tighter on the pro's, and the rec's. Ahhh the stories I've heard...

IMO the pro's will happily sacrifice us rec's on the "altar of regulation", if it means they will get some benefit, or a "reduction in reduction". Too many times pro's have come along and made it very clear to me on the water that they don't share the resource with us, they compete with us for it.

To think that the pro's will bat for us is like believing the Chinese would play by the rules at the Olympics. Nice to dream about, but wait for serious disappointment. Please don't be naive about it, or we will end up with snapper bags of 1 or 2 (that is what the pro's think we should have). How about a 1 Spaniard per boat limit? Yep, that's probably on their agenda too.

If we don't approach this from a rec's perspective ALWAYS, the pro's will be up us like a rat up a drainpipe. I have great faith in the Guys we have on the review, I believe they'll do a great job for us.

All IMHO of course. My head is not "hot", I just like to deal with reality.

Cheers,

Tim

[Far side]

Many would love to see pro’s gone for good. How would you feel if their was a large group trying to get you out of your living, how are you going to pay the mortgage, feed and clothe the kids? If the shoe was on the other foot I’m sure you would be singing a different note. Instead of bitching and mud slinging try and find out some facts before going of. We all share the same resource and we all need to look after it.

Stu
Stu I wonder if Whalers pleaded the same cause before they banned whale hunting or the seal hunters

[dayoo]

Guys,

The workshop on the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery went very well. There was some disagreement but there was a strong agreement between the three groups (Recreational, Commercial and Charter Operators) to share the fish resources for the first time ever.

The public meetings over the next six weeks will let everyone have there say and hopefully we will all be satisfied.

Fisheries will be sending out the details of what was agreed to at the workshop (hopefully by the end of this week) and as soon as I receive this Bill Corten and I will post a joint report on Ausfish so that you all will be aware of the proposals in advance of the proposed public meetings.

Details of the location, dates and times of the public discussion meetings will also be posted as soon as they are released.

Don't roll your sleeves up yet its not all doom and gloom.

Cheers
Barry;D

[snasman]

Weve all got to stick together on this issue, the more numbers we have as a collective group the more noise we will make. Interbitching will not achieve anything in our favor.

[outsiderskip]

just for those that dont know
pro have got to show cause if they havent caught 500kg in a year
over a period of 5 yrs or loose their endorsement L1 fishery

pete

[dfox]

All commercial licences with the L1 endorcement must show history of catches of rocky reef species in at least three financial years from 1999 to 2006. Total catches in this period must also exceed 3000kg's in total.
Most licences with the L1 symbol wouldnt qualify under this criteria, there fore holders of such licences would loes that symbol ... foxy

[FNQCairns]

Guys,

The workshop on the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery went very well. There was some disagreement but there was a strong agreement between the three groups (Recreational, Commercial and Charter Operators) to share the fish resources for the first time ever.

The public meetings over the next six weeks will let everyone have there say and hopefully we will all be satisfied.

Fisheries will be sending out the details of what was agreed to at the workshop (hopefully by the end of this week) and as soon as I receive this Bill Corten and I will post a joint report on Ausfish so that you all will be aware of the proposals in advance of the proposed public meetings.

Details of the location, dates and times of the public discussion meetings will also be posted as soon as they are released.

Don't roll your sleeves up yet its not all doom and gloom.

Cheers
Barry;D

Nah, I don't want that! I only need the minutes of the meeting:)

The average fisho has had such a shocking run so far with unjustifiable regulations that could only be the outcome of low depth personal views on 'I just know what's best for everyone in attitude' or a loaded deck right from the start or the discussion is but a show or the terms of reference effectively point toward a designer outcome only - seen it all from my time in fisheries conservation so I know it happens more often than not.

Hope this time it is all on the up and up as would be defined by a typical bloke walking in the street.

Although I have trouble believing the fishery's entrenched and bloody minded disrespect of typical rec-fisherman can just magically disappear, previous behaviour is always the strongest indicator of future behaviour.

cheers fnq

[samson]

Timi boy you know very little about how the pro's are restricted these rocky reef proposals are going the same way as coral reef proposals where most pro's got taken out of the fishery and could only take their limit to eat like rec guys and made their licences useless.
The restrictions in the coral reef fishery for the guy's like me that were lucky enough to earn a quota have to deal with are a joke its easier to throw fish back dead if you don't get 50kg or more as the quota regulations are bordering on unworkable, how would you like having to tell fisheries your exact time of leaving and arrival and not be able to go anywhere near that ramp before landing time or get fined or miscount 100 fish by 1 and get a fine or not be able to catch any fish one hour before landing or get a fine and god help you if your approximate weights are out get a fine or not being able to leave the ramp without weighing all fish or get a fine and not being able to fish less than three hours or get a fine so you just have to sit out there in dangerous weather till its leagle to come in and if that ain't bad enough 3 hours of paperwork during and after all correct or get a fine or god help you can't get phone coverage before landing to tell fish numbers another fine or can't cross a bar because its dangerous to get in at the right time get a fine.
The same will probably happen with the rocky reef fishery and most pros licences are going to be worthless its already happening as foxy said guys with not enough logbook history are getting their licences taken off them right now so why would you lie on logbooks and to say we don't want rec guys getting their fair share of fish is ridiculous where do think we get our crew they are all rec guys that deserve their fair share and like to eat fish like the rest of us pull your head in mate its everybodies fishery not just yours.

Cheers samson

[TimiBoy]

Timi boy you know very little about how the pro's are restricted these rocky reef proposals are going the same way as coral reef proposals where most pro's got taken out of the fishery and could only take their limit to eat like rec guys and made their licences useless.
The restrictions in the coral reef fishery for the guy's like me that were lucky enough to earn a quota have to deal with are a joke its easier to throw fish back dead if you don't get 50kg or more as the quota regulations are bordering on unworkable, how would you like having to tell fisheries your exact time of leaving and arrival and not be able to go anywhere near that ramp before landing time or get fined or miscount 100 fish by 1 and get a fine or not be able to catch any fish one hour before landing or get a fine and god help you if your approximate weights are out get a fine or not being able to leave the ramp without weighing all fish or get a fine and not being able to fish less than three hours or get a fine so you just have to sit out there in dangerous weather till its leagle to come in and if that ain't bad enough 3 hours of paperwork during and after all correct or get a fine or god help you can't get phone coverage before landing to tell fish numbers another fine or can't cross a bar because its dangerous to get in at the right time get a fine.
The same will probably happen with the rocky reef fishery and most pros licences are going to be worthless its already happening as foxy said guys with not enough logbook history are getting their licences taken off them right now so why would you lie on logbooks and to say we don't want rec guys getting their fair share of fish is ridiculous where do think we get our crew they are all rec guys that deserve their fair share and like to eat fish like the rest of us pull your head in mate its everybodies fishery not just yours.

Cheers samson

Thanks for that well articulated response, Sambo. Had you picked for a Pro. Yes, regs are hard and getting harder in my industry too. We learn to work with them, or we get penalised out of existence. I prefer to obey them to the letter. Costs me plenty, and takes a lot of time out of our day sometimes, but there you go, it's the cost of doing business in a big bad world.

My head, thankyou, will stay well and truly OUT. I have heard too many stories about huge, unreported catches being flogged off to fish shops at the back door for hands full of cash. I've been treated with less than fair behaviour by several Pro's on the water.

More important than that I know how people behave when their livelihoods are threatened. Pro's have a different agenda, and they don't care what happens to the Rec's; they'd rather we weren't there, and would happily sacrifice us. All very nice to be all touchy and feely at this end of the show, but when the rubber hits the road you can bet it won't be. FACT.

If your opinion is different to that, many thanks, it's nice to see there's at least one Pro out there who does it right. I'm not trying to be personal in articulating my beliefs. I'm sure there are regulations out there which have been placed on you by the same boring twits in the EPA who give all of us a hard time.

I've formed my opinion from broad and detailed discussions with a lot of people which have aligned with my personal experiences.

I will therefore state them wherever I feel it is appropriate. Again, thanks for your contribution, Samson.

Tim

[samson]

Timi my beef isn't with amatures its the with fisheries if the rocky reef goes in the quota reporting direction it will make my job too dangerous i won't be able to leave sea or risk a fine if weather turns bad and be forced to get a satalite phone as phone coverage is unworkable at the moment, the fishery is way to over regulated already when it doesn't need to be, these reporting rules need refining but they don't listen maybe some people need to get killed but hey if it ain't their family the don't give a shit.
But as far as fighting together in some ways your right we're got different things to fight about, but that won't stop me getting in the corner for the rec guys because thats where i started and thats probably where i'll end up if it keeps getting more regulated its already the most regulated industry there is but they still find ways to fine people more, i guess the government doesn't give enough funding and they need to fund the dpi other ways.

[rubba]

hi pete i would like to know what makes you qualifed to speak on behalf of us regards dale

[rubba]

thought so glad we have barry and bill good on ya fellas and they are doing good job to 8-)

[conquest]

re;- L1 fishing symbols,out of 1500 symbols 1200-1300 have been,or are in the process or being removed , guess who fisheries consider the next group increasing effort are , and the next to be managed.

[Moonlighter]

Hi all

I will add a comment here as well.

MBAA has been keeping a close eye on this issue and Bill and Duncan (Fishhead) have been feeding us views/information/advice and vice versa.

Bill, Duncan and Barry deserve a huge thank you for putting huge amounts of their time into this, and on behalf of the MBAA team, THANKS guys, you're champions!

Again from what Bill and Barry have reported, it clearly demonstrates that our best chance of getting a sensible outcome is when rec and commercial sit down together and nut out a solution that we are all satisfied with and push that up to Govt with our collective support behind it.

The alternative, and what has happened in the past, is that DPI/EPA would talk separately with rec and commercial and then play us off against each other. >:( >:(

I know which approach I'd rather be a part of!!

What MBAA rec sector reps found with the Marine Park process was that the pro reps didn't have 2 heads, in fact there was a hell of a lot more common ground than we thought there might be. And they happily shared their vast knowledge and data with us to help us whenever they could. I now count a number of them as friends - top blokes like John Page, Dave Thompson, Rob Brock and MBSIA CEO Kellie Williams.

The result was that a great deal more understanding and RESPECT was generated on both sides - respect that I can see from Bill and Barry's comments has carried over into the rocky reef fish review - and I might add, good on the 2008 version of DPIF for running the prcess in a way that brought the partes together rather than trying the old "divide and conquer" approach.

Pity the EPA couldn't (or wouldn't) and can't get their heads around that concept.... They are still insisting on meeting separately with rec and pro reps when we are discussing the artificial reef proposals with them at present. They seem positively mortified that we want to meet jointly with them - afraid, even. This behaviour just confirms for me the importance of continuing to work together with the pros on these types of issues - if it worries EPA that much, it must be good for us!;) ;D

Regards

Grant