175 HPDI or 150 4S - Same Price - Which one?

[Winnie]

Making a decision tommorw...

Its in your hands.. both Yamahas, on 6.5 mtr Whittley..

Which one??

[marco]

i would say the 175 , if proped correctly it will give you good economy and have decent power .

the 150 4s is a good engine with better fuel economy but i would think underpowered on your boat

[backlash08]

Tough question Winnie - really depends on what you are going to do with it BUT given the size of the boat and the fact it is a whitley I would go with the 175, the 150 would be a little light on power (IMO)

cheers

[PADDLES]

winnie, if you can afford it go a bigger 4s. the 175 would be min size on that size boat and with the future resale of a 4s on a nice pleasure boat like that, you'd get a good chunk of the money back when the time comes to sell.

[Mtx]

Winnie, I have the 200 HPDI on a 615 Yalta and would not consider a 150 4banger on it.

Fuel economy is good as well as long as you are not silly.

Last weekend I put in at redland Bay went to Macleay, Peel, Green, st helena, Mud, st helena, green, manly harbour, peel, macleay and back to redland bay on an overnighter.

Averaged around 55k's per hour, filled up on the way home and the boat only took 34 litres.

I thought that was fantastic for a 200. Saying that, it is not really working hard doing 55kph.

doing 80+ k's per hour, I really do not want to be filling up at the end of the same trip !

but it is capable of it at the same time.

[PADDLES]

that's good economy mtx. my mate has got a 200 v6 4s on a 6.2m hh and can get down to 15-20 lph in good conditions. he's going pretty slow (35 or so km/h) though to get those figures

[hino310]

If going Yamaha i would definately go a larger four stroke over the HPDI. Do a goolge search "yamaha hpdi blown up"

[pilchardjones]

personally i would be going the 150 4s. they have a great reputation and there are huge numbers of the on US boats. my mate has 1 and loves it.
the HPDI's do not have the same reputation IMHO. as hino said search "blown HPDI" and there will be a bit more info for you.
steve

[Scott nthQld]

I'd stick with a 4str but as paddles said, go bigger if you can afford it, a 150hp would be underpowering. Having said that, Why only a 150hp 4str, besides the price, is there a transom weight issue? Or just looking to save some hard earned?

[tin can marlin]

I would be going the hpdi if they are run in correctly they give no faluts at all. They are better out of the hole etc.

[Quaker]

If you're gonna go with a hpdi go with e-tec instead of Yammie.

[Vindicator]

I've got a 175 HPDI on my boat and am more than happy with it. On an offshore trip I can get almost a mile (not Nm) / litre, depending on conditions.

Cheers
Kezza

[Gary Fooks]

Both are at the better end of the scale – as is clear from the range of comments above.


The HPDI is likely to have a higher fuel consumption. Taking a rough guess that the 4 stroke uses 14 lph on average then if the HPDI has at least 10% higher consumption or 1.4 litres.

Based on 100hrs pa at $1.70 per litre that’s another $240 a year or so. Maybe much more.

Glasses Guide says that you will lose more value on the HPDI. The 4 strokes retain their value better .

Over 3 years the average depreciation in the F150 is 19.9% p.a and the HPDI at 22.7%. - over 3 years that’s about another $1,000 loss in value.


Now to the emissions. The HPDI is a 2 star and the 4 stroke a 3 star, with about half the emissions.

You may not keep the HPDI for ten years - but it should last that long. Given 100 hrs pa and ten years the HPDI will put out an extra 2.7 tonnes of emissions. It always sounds a lot when I put it that way - but that’s the decision you are making.

We will likely have emissions regulations in the next few years. Under the standard they are considering, the HPDI wont pass. But don’t worry about that – the regulations will only effect new sales - not the outboard you but today. In other words there is no “ban” just a new standard for imports.


Probably more information than you were seeking – but there you are.

Gary
PS teh transom weight difference is 18kg - less the tank of 2 stroke oil.

[finding_time]

If your going to keep the boat for the life of the motor eg 10 years / 2500 hrs get which ever you please but if your planning to upsize, downsize or sell up in the forseeable future the 4 stroke will give the whole boat package a higher resale!

iAN

[Offshore^Jack]

Don't even think of putting a 150 4 stroke on a 6.5 metre glass Whittley,it will be so underpowered pushing 1300kg + fishermen + gear + fuel.

I take it,it's the SL 2200 which has a max hp rating of 225hp.

If it were me i'd spend the extra $$$ and fit at least a 200hp as it will get on the plane easier and it won't work as hard as the 150 or 175.

I'd go the 200 VMAX,whats the price difference between the 175 and 200?

The 200 hpdi is one of the best motors ever made and they sell millions of them in the States and they are the best match for the Regulator and Contender CC's.

If you are spending this much on the boat,don't scimp a few $$$ and underpower it,it will piss you off everytime you take it out believe me.

A tip on the VMAX,the black stainless props are the same price as the chrome VMAX and SWS props,so tell the sales rep you want it fitted with a chrome vmax or SWS (Saltwater Series Prop) The black stainless props chip a lot easier as they are a weaker grade stainless steel.

For memory the Vmax prop was $970 and the black prop wasn't much cheaper,that surprised me and also surprised the Yamaha rep.

Let us know how you went tomorrow.


Jack

[BrenMac]

Winnie, I think the decision of whether you go DI 2 stroke or 4 stroke gets down purely to which technology and features you prefer, but like others have said, if you go 4 stroke, a minimum of 200 ponies would be the way to go.

Not sure what performance you want from your boat, but having a rig that is sluggish and underpowered is a real dissappointment when you have shelled out a small fortune!

Cheers
BMac

[revs57]

Mate, the badged 150 4 stk yam is actually 163 hp so there is only 12 hp difference not 25. the hpdi is good, nearly put one on my boat, missed it on ebay, went for a 150 efi merc - good reliable and tough motor, but thirsty 36-38 lts/hr @4000 rpm 180 lts to the rthern banks and back. Now have f200 yam 4stk on a 6.5mt platey - 18 lts / hr at 4000 rpm 90 lts to northern banks and back.

I'd understand the 175 hpdi is in a similar ball park on economy to the 4stk.

Your call I'd reckon, nearly much of a muchness - for me, I'm sold out on the 4stk, but have a few more neddies up my sleeve and ony on the odd occasion have they come in handy, but when I've needed them, they've really helped

cheers

Rhys

[Winnie]

Thanks Jack for your info. Really helpful.
Been at the boat show today and after reading the posts I put a line through the 150 4 str and 90% sealed the deal on 175HPDI. I will check out the price difference on the 175 to the 200. Down herenot a lot of HPDI get moved so its hard to get decent info like yours and a few others.

Interesting to note that I just happended to have a chat to a Suzuki dealer who absolutley shit canned the Yammy HPDI models.. Then spoke to a few less biased dealers who balanced it out. Thanks again.

[Winnie]

I'd stick with a 4str but as paddles said, go bigger if you can afford it, a 150hp would be underpowering. Having said that, Why only a 150hp 4str, besides the price, is there a transom weight issue? Or just looking to save some hard earned?

Not looking to save any hard earned cos there is none left now ;) but looking to max out on power and minimise on $$$. Hard task. The dealer was more than satisfied with the 150 but again no fuel/gear/passengers makes a dif.

[Winnie]

i would say the 175 , if proped correctly it will give you good economy and have decent power .

the 150 4s is a good engine with better fuel economy but i would think underpowered on your boat
Cheers, quite a few blokes have said underpowering would be an issue.. up we go.

[Offshore^Jack]

Winnie,that's great news that you've decided against the 150,especially being a 4 stroke.

That Suzuki rep is a real tool,they'll say anything and i mean anything to make a sale.

You need to be wary about dealers underpowering boats to keep prices down,most dealers do it to make BMT packages more attractive and if a customer is financing,it lowers the monthly repayments.I know a Gold Coast dealer which i won't name,who sells a 6.4 metre hull with a Honda 130 4 stroke,it's absolutely insane when you load it up with 3-4 adults,gear,eskies,fuel.I said to the dealer while i was looking at the hull with the 130hp,"that's so underpowered with the 130 for that size hull" He looked at me nervously and said it goes well.

Get 3 prices for the 175 and 200 Vmax and play the dealers against each other.Dealer x can do it for this,can you beat it,sales reps love lies so say your best price is lower than what it is,all they can say is no.In these times of high interest rates and high petrol prices,motor sales will be down,so you should snag yourself a nice deal.Do the same with the hull to.

All the best and i'd love to see some pics.

[ShaneC]

Winnie,

I have just powered a 625 Cruisecraft with a 175 HPDI. I did all the "blown motor" searches on google, and did a lot of asking around prior to taking the plunge, then I did more google searches on all the other brands of outboard and you wouldn't believe it.... I got hits on all of them!!!

I have only racked up a few hrs on the new boat, and due to the crappy weather during the few days I got to use her before putting her to bed for a couple of months, I could not get any really accurate fuel consumption figures.

I did take the squeeze for a run to Tangas from Scarborough though and for a 72km round trip used 46 litres, mind you we did quite a bit of idling around looking at the sights so its still not a very accurate calculation.

Now just got to hope the weather is good in September so I can get her dirty.

Having said that, knowing what I know now, I think the 150 4stroke would have been underpowered on mine, and as yours is bigger, I think its wise to go bigger in my humble opinion.

Good luck mate,

Shane

[marco]

Winnie,

I have just powered a 625 Cruisecraft with a 175 HPDI. I did all the "blown motor" searches on google, and did a lot of asking around prior to taking the plunge, then I did more google searches on all the other brands of outboard and you wouldn't believe it.... I got hits on all of them!!!

I have only racked up a few hrs on the new boat, and due to the crappy weather during the few days I got to use her before putting her to bed for a couple of months, I could not get any really accurate fuel consumption figures.

I did take the squeeze for a run to Tangas from Scarborough though and for a 72km round trip used 46 litres, mind you we did quite a bit of idling around looking at the sights so its still not a very accurate calculation.

Now just got to hope the weather is good in September so I can get her dirty.

Having said that, knowing what I know now, I think the 150 4stroke would have been underpowered on mine, and as yours is bigger, I think its wise to go bigger in my humble opinion.

Good luck mate,

Shane

just to add another aspect that is relevant to what shane has said with the cruise craft is the weight of the engine . the 625 cruise craft responds to trimming and ride so much better with a lighter engine that i thought should be considered for winnies whittley ( how about that for your boat name ) ;D .

i have a cruisecraft 625 as well and i have a had 2 engines , one wieghing 238kgs and the other 194kgs and the difference in handling is substancial

food for thought in your decision and dont let that suzuki rep put you off that brand , if you are thinking of a brand change , i would give the suzuki serious consideration in the 4s class .

[Winnie]

Winnie,

I have just powered a 625 Cruisecraft with a 175 HPDI. I did all the "blown motor" searches on google, and did a lot of asking around prior to taking the plunge, then I did more google searches on all the other brands of outboard and you wouldn't believe it.... I got hits on all of them!!!

I have only racked up a few hrs on the new boat, and due to the crappy weather during the few days I got to use her before putting her to bed for a couple of months, I could not get any really accurate fuel consumption figures.

I did take the squeeze for a run to Tangas from Scarborough though and for a 72km round trip used 46 litres, mind you we did quite a bit of idling around looking at the sights so its still not a very accurate calculation.

Now just got to hope the weather is good in September so I can get her dirty.

Having said that, knowing what I know now, I think the 150 4stroke would have been underpowered on mine, and as yours is bigger, I think its wise to go bigger in my humble opinion.

Good luck mate,

Shane

Cheers Shane..

I have traded in a Cruisey for this one ( 500 Exp). I had a look at the rig you have and they are awesome. Great fishing deck. Awesome price too.. :o After having a CC for 10 years though its worth it Im sure..

Did the search as people suggested and very little came back recently.. a lot from 2004 and 2005 but nothing from 08. Same models probably with a few alterations to the fuel output to stop them "blowing".

if you have a pic of your rig all set up I'd be keen to have a view as I havent seen one decked out like that. Good choice all round I hope.

Cheers

Winnie

[Winnie]

just to add another aspect that is relevant to what shane has said with the cruise craft is the weight of the engine . the 625 cruise craft responds to trimming and ride so much better with a lighter engine that i thought should be considered for winnies whittley ( how about that for your boat name ) ;D .

i have a cruisecraft 625 as well and i have a had 2 engines , one wieghing 238kgs and the other 194kgs and the difference in handling is substancial

food for thought in your decision and dont let that suzuki rep put you off that brand , if you are thinking of a brand change , i would give the suzuki serious consideration in the 4s class .

The next post was looking for a name, just saved me the trouble Marco, got it covered already.. nice one.

Weight was an issue, but my mail is the 2 motors exactly the same weight? didnt sound right originally as I thought the 4 Str would 20 -25 kg heavier. Not sure if Yamaha list their engine weight as is on set up or out of factory.

[Outsider1]

Weight was an issue, but my mail is the 2 motors exactly the same weight? didnt sound right originally as I thought the 4 Str would 20 -25 kg heavier. Not sure if Yamaha list their engine weight as is on set up or out of factory.

Dry weights of the comparable XL shaft versions are identical at 220kgs. Nothing in it.

The 175 HPDI is the same motor as the 150 hp and 200hp HPDI models (2.596 litres). It is also the same block as the EFI 2 stroke 150, 175 hp and 200hp models (Precision Blend). The 150 4s motor is unique to the 150hp model (2.67 litres). The next 4s up is the 200hp which has a 3.352 litre donk and weighs 269kgs (dry). Only the Opti and E-Tec are significant lighter (190kg and 195kg respectively) unless you go for an old tech 2 stroke.

The 175HPDI should be able to cruise at lower revs because of the extra torque at lower RPMs, probably 3500 to 4000 rpm will be the most economic cruise. The 150hp will need more revs probably 4000 to 4500 for similar cruise speed and economy. If you run the HPDI at higher revs ie. say 4500 rpms or more then it will start to use measurably more fuel.

It is important to get the engine set up correctly, ie right height on the transom and the correct propping. This is where your dealer's experience comes in. DI 2 strokes seem to respond the best to a good set up, but it is important for all styles of motors.

I don't think there is going to be a huge difference between the 2 motors, more power is always better but they are of similar displacement and weight, so as long as they are set up properly and driven to suit there engine characteristics there would probably be no more than 10% diff in fuel economy, speed etc. You would probably have to go to 200hp to see a really noticeable difference. This is also the hp range where weight differences between the 2strokes and 4 strokes really surfaces.

Have a look through the F & B tests on Seamedia.com.au and you will see what I mean;

http://www.seamedia.com.au/sea_library/engines_drives.php

Cheers

Dave

[ShaneC]

G'day Winnie,

Check your PM's mate