A Scary observation

[thelump]

Hi All

Went camping on South Straddie on Saturday night and while sitting around the fire having a few bevvies we saw no less than 3 (small) boats screaming past with no lighting at all. I say small because we could just make the silhouettes out in the dark. Not to mention a lot of guys with no allround white light or guys with a deckie up the front with a torch. Pretty scary stuff considering the size of some of the boats belting around there at night. Someone will come unstuck soon and cop a large one over the front(and I dont mean wave).:'(

[timddo]

There's heaps of them at the goldcoast, Just fish between 6pm till midnight and you see plently of torch flashes or people who turn lights on when you are 50 meters away.

[thelump]

You think they would Police it better. I know the King of the Pin was on so it was probably more traffic than usual but you would have to be crazy to run around without a single light on.:-/

[Poseidon]

Funny thing is that these people remain silhouettes in the night and keep their little secrets to themselves as for the life of me I have never heard anyone come forward and say ' Hi, my name is _______ and I am a person who drives around in pitch darkness without lights endangering not only my own life but those of others who unlike myself follow the rules.'

It would make for an interesting post if someone would actually come forward and describe their reasons for not wanting to use lights.

Regards Cameron.

[ronnien]

hi all,
i dont sit at nite & leave my anchor light on all the time, but as soon as i hear a boat it gets switched straight on. the boat that i can hear might be up to 200-500-mtrs away this gives them time to see me, never ever leave your light off when there is other boats around this is just to dangerous.

ron.

[Donny Boy]

Mate of mine and I did an allnighter ( or tried to) a few months back, in his boat.
No lights on, I asked why no lights..." No need ...hardly ever see anyone when we're out " My reply was along the lines of " You must be f ****** joking !!!!" and mentioned all the boats we had seen on our way out. " Yeah, but they're not HERE are they ?? " The heated argument that followed finished with us going back to the ramp, me getting out, and him going back out on his own.
End of friendship too................

[mookyandlumpy]

we almost hit one tinnie near the pin friday night boats goin enverwher so we did not hear him comming and was just about to take off when i spotted him going straight across a bow no more than 5mtrs away , no lights no torch and we were in a big haines hunter and would have just cleaned him up good,
not good at all when you are in a high traffic area

[mik01]

was a timber boat anchored near the channel to raby bay on sat night with no lights on.
Lucky we weren't travelling any faster or it would have been ugly.

yelled out to them to turn lights on but was no sign of life on board - must've been asleep!

[wiz]

This sort of behaviour is typical of some members of our society and unfortunately they don't learn until the lesson is one of dramatic circumstances. All we can do as responsible people is provide an example of what is, just that being RESPONSIBLE.

[The-easyrider]

You get clowns out of bribie all the time without lights one early morn I nearly cut one dichead in half as he tried to go across the front of me ,yes he had right of way but I couldn't see him untill I was right on him

[TheRealAndy]

What gets me is the yachts that anchor up with one of those bunnings solar powered garden lamps for anchor light. They are barely visible when it gets dark at the best, but they only last a few hours before they run out of charge.

Whilst I always have an anchor light on, sometimes when I am running up the local creek at night I will flick my nav lights off to help night vision. My lights are mounted in the centre console and reflect of the inside of the boat. I have been meaning to move them to, or just under the gunwhales but am yet to figure out the best way to mount them.

[tigermullet]

It's all part of the fun. After years of night fishing down at the Pin and often spending the winter onboard for two to three weeks at a time, seeing boats without lights at night is very common.

Large boats anchor up and either forget or don't care about a riding light, tinnies zooming all over the place and rubber duckies patrolling back and forth to take the doggy for a leak.

One or two will come to grief some time in the future but I haven't heard reports of it happening yet.

That's not to say that I condone the practice after a share of close encounters on dark, wet and windy nights. On a clear night at slow speed you would have to be blind or unlucky to either hit or be hit.

Rules being rules, our boat is lit up like a Christmas tree as the sun sets and the lights are fitted and displayed as per the regs.

[Hamish73]

only a complete f&%$# idiot would be out at night without lights!
There are enough accidents on the water as it is without making it more dangerous that it need be. If your boat setup makes it difficult for you to use your lights, fix it.


I'm sure your wives dont want to be woken up by that phone call from the authorities

[tigermullet]

only a complete f&%$# idiot would be out at night without lights!
There are enough accidents on the water as it is without making it more dangerous that it need be. If your boat setup makes it difficult for you to use your lights, fix it.


I'm sure your wives dont want to be woken up by that phone call from the authorities


In these time it probably is stupid but twenty to thirty years ago, having lights displayed whilst at anchor in the bream season was considered to be ill mannered.

You should have heard the swearing that went on if a light was switched on around Short Island. It was a great source of amusement to be anchored along Kalinga and listen to the results. Sometimes you could hear it as far down as the Pig Sties.

[Angla]

Don, Good to see a man of conviction.

Chris

[Hornet Rider]

Mate of mine and I did an allnighter ( or tried to) a few months back, in his boat.
No lights on, I asked why no lights..." No need ...hardly ever see anyone when we're out " My reply was along the lines of " You must be f ****** joking !!!!" and mentioned all the boats we had seen on our way out. " Yeah, but they're not HERE are they ?? " The heated argument that followed finished with us going back to the ramp, me getting out, and him going back out on his own.
End of friendship too................

You part Irish Donny? Hard to get along with? Personally I would have just zip cuffed him in the bow, flicked on the necessary lights, fished & then released him a bit later. Nah, just joking. Well done mate, you did the right thing.

[Hornet Rider]

only a complete f&%$# idiot would be out at night without lights!
There are enough accidents on the water as it is without making it more dangerous that it need be. If your boat setup makes it difficult for you to use your lights, fix it.


I'm sure your wives dont want to be woken up by that phone call from the authorities

Spot on Hamish.

[the gecko]

Well done Donny Boy. Good to see.

The reason most boats arent displaying lights at night, is that most of the offenders arent fitted with lights. They are tinnys or tenders of larger boats, and dinghys and inflatables from canal homes. Most of em are steered by teenagers, yes, Ive been close enough to see em. Lately, Ive seen a lot of em around Wavebreak Is at night. The local paper reported that there was quite a party scene happening on wavebreak, with the youngies finding a good place to do their eccys and grog.

I suppose when I was 15, I thought I was bulletproof too.

Ive had a few near misses from these imbeciles, grrrr.

[Outsider1]

TheRealAndy posted recently in another thread about the MSQ website and Navigation lights rules.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=132686

This is a cut and paste from the Australian Marimtime Safety Authority Marine Orders on Prevention of Collisions, of the rule covering Anchored vessels;

http://www.frli.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/asmade/bytitle/AFA46D6C468FD228CA257023001AC7CA?OpenDocument



Rule 30



Anchored vessels and vessels aground

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.
(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.
(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

I have highlighted section e) as it seems to be relevant. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be a get out clause for smaller boats.

Cheers

Dave

[honda900]

Geez you have to wonder what toolbox came up with that rule.. downright dangerous..


Regards
Honda..

[Dirtysanchez]

Yep, I have encountered many over the years too, once in NSW I was about to put the boat on the plane, in the main channel, dead middle channel, coz I couldn't see anything, so it seemed clear. Just as the boat was about to leave the hole shot, I see a yellow glow like a match lighting about 10 mtrs away, so I pulled back on the throttle immediately, and then realised what I saw and hit reverse.

What did I see ? a bloke, in a 10 foot tender, in the middle of the channel, no lights at all, with a rod clenched between his knees, lighting his bong. THAT is what I saw people, the glow of his bong.

I told him he was on a death wish smoking drugs in the middle of the channel in the middle of a new moon. I suggested he relocate to the shallows, where he would be less of a danger to shipping, and he actually might catch a few more fish, near the oyster leases..

What do you think his reply was ?

[tigermullet]

TheRealAndy posted recently in another thread about the MSQ website and Navigation lights rules.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=132686

This is a cut and paste from the Australian Marimtime Safety Authority Marine Orders on Prevention of Collisions, of the rule covering Anchored vessels;

http://www.frli.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/asmade/bytitle/AFA46D6C468FD228CA257023001AC7CA?OpenDocument



Rule 30



Anchored vessels and vessels aground

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.
(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.
(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

I have highlighted section e) as it seems to be relevant. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be a get out clause for smaller boats.

Cheers

Dave

I like the rule. What say you are up a small cutting in the mangroves and want to fish for bream on a dark night in shallow water? Turn on a light and they scatter. The chances of collision in such a position reduce to almost zero.

There are hundreds of spots like that at the Pin and you can sit there without any danger of a boat charging in. I have done it on more occasions than can be counted and never had a problem.

Some times the authorities get it right. It's rare but does happen.;D

[Twisted_Pair]

What do you think his reply was ?

I reckon he would have said this...

"Thank you very much for your advice mate, I will move straight away. That's a good idea about giving those oyster leases a go and from now on I shall display an appropriate all round white light when anchored in a channel. By the way have you got a light, my bong just went out":P :P

Not!

Regards, T_P:D

[Hamish73]

thanks for that outsider... cant say I agree with it, but I better retract my previous statement as the law says its OK :(


this bit is about as clear as mud "or where other vessels normally navigate"

[Davey1]

Unfortunately it will probably take a few Sydney Harbour like tragedies to get the authorities interested up the Gold Coast :(

[TimiBoy]

I shan't have another rant on this subject, suffice to say;

It's pointless wishing any ill fortune on these people, they'll bring it on themselves anyway. Trouble is I'll be the one who hits the stupid bastard.

The radar is going in next Friday, along with the biggest air horns I can find.

[thelump]

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line


Does this mean when you are tied up on the shore? If so I may have started a very hypocitical thread. I pull up down there to camp and have the boat anchored just offshore with an anchor from the shore also. Should I have lights on also?????:-/

[ozscott]

I love the pin at night in terms of it being a beautiful place to navigate (when you are used to it...so you dont spend all night on sand bars) but people on the move and sitting in normal nav channels without lights shit me to tears. Seriously, someone will end up dead one day. I go slow, just on the plane and I have just installed a Jabsco remote spotty (the cigarette one is a pain to use). I have also used an airhorn to good measure a few times down there:).

I once used a spotty in the seaway because I thought, on a moonless night, I could see a small boat outline in front of me...turned out to be a tinny with one person standing in it and no lights at all...he then abused me for shining the "fu_king spotty" at him. I then told him that I could have motored over him were it not for the spotty...no reply. He then carried on because I had anchored too close for him...love it

Cheers

[Dirtysanchez]

I reckon he would have said this...

"Thank you very much for your advice mate, I will move straight away. That's a good idea about giving those oyster leases a go and from now on I shall display an appropriate all round white light when anchored in a channel. By the way have you got a light, my bong just went out":P :P

Not!

Regards, T_P:D

Thanks for the laught T-P ;D

If he had asked me for a light I think I would have boarded and decked him.
;)

[Razgo-]

and they reckon drugs kill but in this case its the only thing that saved him ::) :o

[mitch92]

The way i read that rule is that if you are NOT in a position where other vessels navigate??

[TheRealAndy]

I like the rule. What say you are up a small cutting in the mangroves and want to fish for bream on a dark night in shallow water? Turn on a light and they scatter. The chances of collision in such a position reduce to almost zero.

There are hundreds of spots like that at the Pin and you can sit there without any danger of a boat charging in. I have done it on more occasions than can be counted and never had a problem.

Some times the authorities get it right. It's rare but does happen.;D

But like the MSQ rep said, the onus would be on you to prove that the waters are not navigable.

[ozscott]

...arrh if you can get there in your tinny then surely its navigable

[tigermullet]

...arrh if you can get there in your tinny then surely its navigable


It is but the regulation states, "where other vessels normally navigate."

There are several spots around mangroves that can be got into to at the right state of the tide, even if using an outboard - but when the water begins to drain it becomes necessary to use oars or pole the way out.

I suppose a collision could occur if some one else was trying to pole or row their way in whilst another boat was in there but how much damage could occur at those speeds?

On choosing this method of fishing I get there using lights and engine, get positioned, anchor and then turn off the lights. From then on it is just a matter of sitting in the dark and being quiet until the fish return. On finishing the session, lights are turned on and it's back to the mother ship or camp or home.

The practice was very common but is less so now.

[ozscott]

sounds fair in practice - I suppose that you could stick on the light if someone approached. I know there has to be give and take. I cannot though understand how people can anchor at the 5 ways of out in the Pin channel near Caruso with no lights on on a dark night; I know thats not what Tigermullet is talking about but its insane.

Cheers

[mik01]

sounds fair in practice - I suppose that you could stick on the light if someone approached. I know there has to be give and take. I cannot though understand how people can anchor at the 5 ways of out in the Pin channel near Caruso with no lights on on a dark night; I know thats not what Tigermullet is talking about but its insane.

Cheers

whats annoying is when you are coming back into port and trying to navigate against the lights on shore to find the path in, whilst dealing with whatever the conditions are, and trying to keep your third eye on a possible idiot with no lights on.

happens regularly on my way back in to Raby Bay (Cleveland VMR ramp). seems to regularly be blokes in small tinny's - obviously no lights rigged up at all, rather than those who have lights but purposely don't turn them on.

On nights with better conditions they can venture out further which causes the concern for me. If you are one of these people, please be aware that its virtually impossible to see you under these circumstances.

rant over... :-/

[fivefishes]

Evening all,

A quick recollection of events in march 2007 for those people who drive around with no lights, first hand recollection.
My wife and i were holidaying in Sydney, we stayed a night in town, to get away from family, at a hotel directly underneath the Harbour bridge. After dinner and drinks we went for a waterfront wander and just before midnight i commented to her about the idiot cruising around the harbour in the middle of the night with no lights, that's right none at all. We awoke the next morning to the sounds of helicopters and rescue vessels combing the waterfront around the hotel looking for bodies. Sound familiar?
No lights, no see, that's it. Think about that next time you go to sea without lights.

Matt

[Angla]

TheRealAndy posted recently in another thread about the MSQ website and Navigation lights rules.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=132686

This is a cut and paste from the Australian Marimtime Safety Authority Marine Orders on Prevention of Collisions, of the rule covering Anchored vessels;

http://www.frli.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/asmade/bytitle/AFA46D6C468FD228CA257023001AC7CA?OpenDocument



Rule 30



Anchored vessels and vessels aground

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.
(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.
(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

I have highlighted section e) as it seems to be relevant. I don't agree with it, but it seems to be a get out clause for smaller boats.

Cheers

Dave


All well and good Dave, but why would they be at risk of us running them over if they were not where other vessels normally navigate. I see it as:- if they get hit, then they were where other vessels normally navigate.

Don't really see that as a escape clause.

Light up and be safe

Chris

[tigermullet]

sounds fair in practice - I suppose that you could stick on the light if someone approached. I know there has to be give and take. I cannot though understand how people can anchor at the 5 ways of out in the Pin channel near Caruso with no lights on on a dark night; I know thats not what Tigermullet is talking about but its insane.

Cheers


I cannot understand how they can do it either. After a few near collisions with anchored boat without lights along Crusoe, Five Ways and Jacobs Well channel, I am all in favour of this regulation being enforced.

The second last incident was the worst. Tracking along Jacobs Well channel, heading for Jacobs Well, after midgnight, I came across a large houseboat anchored in the channel. No lights and the darker patch made by the boat was obsucured by blending in with the tree line. Night vision wasn't too good at that point because of the lights from Jacobs Well were almost directly ahead. Toss in a bit of wind and rain and it was only luck that made the houseboat visible.

Not as bad as approaching Manly at night but enough, under some circumstances, to make it very hard to see unlit boats.

Perhaps the houseboat crew didn't think that anyone would be stooging around in those conditions at night but that is not much of an excuse. Their TV set was flickering but that could be seen only when passing their beam.

I wasn't too upset - one must get used to tourists on their annual holiday blundering about and anchoring large boats... well, trying to - and they do provide some amusement.;D

Especially a lot of women who have never been on board a boat before and who try to tell the skipper (husband?) what to do. Micro-managing just like my wife. Lots of them go aground on the insistence of the wife yeilling out, "Go that way - there aren't any boats there". More often than not there aren't any boats there because the track will take them straight across the top of a sand bank. The arguments that follow are something to be heard. Moments like that convince me that there is a God.;D

[Hornet Rider]

Evening all,


No lights, no see, that's it. Think about that next time you go to sea without lights.

Matt


Right on!! Combination of 'big sea' theory (same as big sky theory), smart skippers on watch with a responsible attitude, great reflexes & clever avoidance that there aren't more collisions at night. NVG make a difference, a very big difference. Gen 2 are the go, for the price. Gen 3 much more expensive & are an over kill, can't get Gen 4 (military only)

http://www.nightvisionstore.com/Night%20Optics%20USA%20D-300%20Night%20Vision%20Monocular.htm

http://www.atncorp.com/NightVision/NightVisionScopesMonoculars/ATNNVM-14-CGT

http://www.atncorp.com/NightVisionInternational

[stingau]

Right on!! Combination of 'big sea' theory (same as big sky theory), smart skippers on watch with a responsible attitude, great reflexes & clever avoidance that there aren't more collisions at night. NVG make a difference, a very big difference. Gen 2 are the go, for the price. Gen 3 much more expensive & are an over kill, can't get Gen 4 (military only)

http://www.nightvisionstore.com/Night%20Optics%20USA%20D-300%20Night%20Vision%20Monocular.htm

http://www.atncorp.com/NightVision/NightVisionScopesMonoculars/ATNNVM-14-CGT

http://www.atncorp.com/NightVisionInternational

Take it from someone who has completed training in and still does drive at night purely using NVG with no headlights until you get accustomed to their use I would not reccomend using them. They greatly alter your depth perseption, nothing worse getting all warryand thinking its ok that rock is miles away.. crunch or even worse the cheaper units ..under 3 or4 grand would probably be gen 1 and if someone turns on a light while u are using them.. yur blinded and the nvg is history..

Nothing beats good night vision and preferably 2 sets of eyes on alert, personally i reckon going out at night alone is bordering on stupidity so betwen u an your mate hopefullly one of u will see the imbeciles without lights.

[TimiBoy]

Take it from someone who has completed training in and still does drive at night purely using NVG with no headlights until you get accustomed to their use I would not reccomend using them. They greatly alter your depth perseption, nothing worse getting all warryand thinking its ok that rock is miles away.. crunch or even worse the cheaper units ..under 3 or4 grand would probably be gen 1 and if someone turns on a light while u are using them.. yur blinded and the nvg is history..

Nothing beats good night vision and preferably 2 sets of eyes on alert, personally i reckon going out at night alone is bordering on stupidity so betwen u an your mate hopefullly one of u will see the imbeciles without lights.

I thought about some NVG's, for a very short while. Radar's cheaper!

Tim

[bushbeachboy]

It is not restricted to Southern areas. One day at about 10am I arrived at the Morrisseys Creek ramp, about 50k south of Townsville. It might sound like it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's a busy area on a weekend. I saw a tinny being retrieved that had a huge 'v' smashed into the middle of the starboard side. Somehow it hadn't sunk when hit in the dark by a large glass boat. When I asked the bloke about it he admitted that he and his mates had been at anchor overnight without lights and had been hit by the bigger boat. The bigger boat went right over the top of them. They had been on the turps and gone to sleep, and couldn't be seen without lights. Minor injuries only. They stayed at anchor until they thought the pi$$ had worn off and they could not get caught by the cops. Wankers!

[Hornet Rider]

Take it from someone who has completed training in and still does drive at night purely using NVG with no headlights until you get accustomed to their use I would not reccomend using them. They greatly alter your depth perseption, nothing worse getting all warryand thinking its ok that rock is miles away.. crunch or even worse the cheaper units ..under 3 or4 grand would probably be gen 1 and if someone turns on a light while u are using them.. yur blinded and the nvg is history..

Nothing beats good night vision and preferably 2 sets of eyes on alert, personally i reckon going out at night alone is bordering on stupidity so betwen u an your mate hopefullly one of u will see the imbeciles without lights.

Good advice stingau, for the untrained, as any new piece of kit comes with pros & cons. I'm a bit like you I guess, have been using NVGs for over 20 yrs, night parachute ops, fast boat ops, vehicle mounted & hoofen it. You do have to develop a skill using them that's for sure. I landed twice on the first time I used them parachuting, once when I thought I landed, then came the real landing, crunch :-[ Horses for courses, & they are not the fix all for night fishing, but in the right hands they are a useful to manage risk. Gen 2 are okay on the water unless it's a total black out, but Gen 3 are better. Radar is also a smart tool.

cheers

[stingau]

Ive got a set of russian gen4's that were a souvenier but id never take em fishin.. jeez ya would look like a wannabe runnin round the bay wif em. and hornet, radar would be a cheaper option im sure but then again NVG will allow u to check out what the others are catching mght have to chuck em in the boat nexttime.

So all of you lot out there if ya see a bug eyed bloke starring at ya at night its only me