Seafarer, Freedom Escape, Signature

[blackjack]

::)
First timer for just about everything on here, though I've been reading these pages pretty closely for a while and picking up more tips than I ever thought I'd need to know!!! I've done hours of research - but it's all been on the internet not on the water! DOH!!!

Now I need some help deciding on a first boat. After much reading, and no experience :-/, we're getting a bit closer to buying something.

It's really just for me and the wife, but our older daughters may like to come out with us sometimes, we hope. They like to have a bit of a tow around and a laugh.

Our main need is for a boat that is an all rounder - bit of cruising around the lake, the harbour and the odd trip outside.

Fishing is high on the agenda - the missus loves fishing!!! :P ; the possibility of sleeping on board for an overnighter is there; and just a bit of sightseeing and exploring the waterways mainly around Port Stephens, NSW.

So we need a bit of space to throw down a mattress, we need all over cover and we have got limited funds and a 2006 Honda CRV to tow her - legal for 1500kgs.

Choices at the moment:

1. Seafarer Venus 5.0m - 2002 model; Johnson Oceanpro 90 - 200 hrs work; full covers etc.
2. Freedom Escape 5.3m - 2007 model; Yamaha 90 - 10 hrs work; bimini and clears only.
3. Seafarer Viking 5.5m - 2000 model; Evinrude 115 - 49 hrs work; dealer offering brand new full covers; already has bimini.
4. Haines Signature 5.3m - 2004 model 530C; Johnson saltwater 115 - 100hrs work; bimini and side clears.
5. Mustang 1600 Tournament - new boat package with Mercury 90 Optimax; no covers

I am pretty keen on the Seafarer's based on their reputation. I would like to know your comments on them and the kind of money you reckon is fair for each/any of these.

And of course I wanna know if I'm missing something and you have a better suggestion!

Rough prices for the above being asked are:

1. Venus - 28.5k
2. Escape - 25k
3. Viking - 32k
4. Signature - 32.5k
5. Mustang - 27k

I didn't really want thave to borrow too much more than 25, but I can see that there are some advantages in what's a bit dearer. Anyway, over to you folks. It'd be great to get some feedback from the people who know.

Cheers, Jack

[Outsider1]

Hi Jack,

in order my preferences would be;

1. Viking
2. Signature
3. Freedom Escape
4. Venus
5. Mustang

Careful on the overall weight of the Viking/Trailer with full fuel and gear etc, it might get close to your 1500kg limit, but other than that it is the standout fishing boat in this group. And also has enough comforts including a fold up rear lounge for the non fishing days. The 115 Evinrude was also the ideal power option when they were new.

Haines Signature are a quality boat but the 530c is not quite as good as the Viking for fishing IMO.

The Freedom is the value for money entry here.

Good luck and good fishing.

Cheers

Dave

[Chimo]

Hi Jack

Either of the Seafarers or the Haines will probably hold their value better.

The newer direct injection motors are worth more and will hold their value better. On the other hand the older two strokes are cheaper and have by now probably done most of their depreciating. Maybe its line ball but again its back to whos going to service it.

Pay a fair bit of attention to the trailer too. You want to be able to get the boat on and off with the minimum of hassel to you and yours.

Possibly the primary question to be resolved is who is to service you boat motor. Notwithstanding personal preference having a trusted, experienced, skilled and qualified tech to look after the motor should the first thing you sort out. This person will then assist you with motor and with 2nd hand, the boat too. Cannot emphasise this enough. All your other issues will melt away if you get this right.

Do make sure you get test runs in the ones your interested in preferably in foul, wet and windy conditions to see how they ride and handle, if the covers leak and if so how much and importantly how well the launch and retrive goes with the trailer being sold with the boat in tough conditions.

BM has a "Guide to Buying Secondhand Boats" that you should also use to assist you. PM him if he does not contribute to the thread.

Hope this is some help

Cheers
Chimo

[FNQCairns]

Will you ever poke your head out the mouth and travel to the islands? or will you stick to sheltered waterways?

It gets pretty cold in PS when the southerlys not to mention a normal winter temps I spent lots of time shivering in my boat chasing jewfish there.

The bays water can roughen up enough to thoroughly wet a family.

I would go for any one of those boats if I had a tape measure to nail down usable room and as long as it also has usable shelter, it can be miserable for a family when they are trying to do what many blokes just take for granted
Probably worth obtaining a weigh bridge certificate on any of those boats just to be sure esp the 5.5m but not just tow weight, lot's of packages (even secondhand) their trailers can be rated illegally, you will know for sure then.

cheers fnq

[mirage]

Hi Jack,

I used to have a Freedom Seasport. (6.4m) They are a sound boat but built to a price. I thought it was too light for serious offshore work. For mainly bay work the Freedom would be great, especially if that yamaha is a 4stk. But if you are going to go offshore more often then, as previously said, the Seafarer Viking would be the standout fishing boat. Just have to decide how much Offshore work you reckon you would do and if you want what is basically a brand new boat (with warranty on the motor) or an 8 year old boat??
Good luck, Scotty.

[Jabba_]

The Viking has got to be on top off the list, Great hull, great reputation, Great outsider (for it's size). and loads off room to fish from.. You will also find from you list the Viking will be the best riding boat off them all.... 3 reasons for this. Hull design, Length and weight...

The information that Outsider and Chimo have given you is spot on...

also to consider is resale... All Seafarer's hold there value very well, unless it has been abuse and left to rot...... They are also built extremely strong

[ozscott]

I can vouch for their strength. My 1970s Vag has an insane amount of glass in it. The transom is half an inch thick solid glass. The dash is the same. The foredeck is over an inch of glass and wood. The floor feels like concrete and runs twin stringers down to the transom with fuel tanks amidships running fore and aft.

Cheers

[tenzing]

Agree with all of the above. viking would be the stand out first choice.
May go very close to the weight thogh on trailer with fuel and gear.
The seafarer is an arguably better hull and I think you'd notice the difference in ride.
I tested one like you described before I got the victory and it went for $30k.
Brendan

[backlash08]

Hard to go past the viking, the seafarer is a good thing, had one and it was a great overall boat for its size

[Ocean_Spirit]

Yep, Seafarer all the way.

Strongest, best built, best finished and best performing hull. The Venus is a great little family boat, but the Viking offers a lot in the way of offshore ability and cockpit room.

Down the track, you could always consider upgrading the engine, the hull is built to last. As said, best engine for the Viking is a 115.

What you find is that you'll start with the 5.0Mtr, and end up with a 6.0Mtr Victory or Vermont, then if you're keen, you'll probably wind up in a Vagabond or Voyager. Seems to be the 'Seafarer owner's' trend!

[Spaniard_King]

Jack,

I have concerns over the seafarer and the signature being under 1500 kg's. both well built hulls and none lacking in strength. But I seriouly doubt you would keep both these rigs under 1500 kg's when loaded up with fuel and gear.

The seafarer for me would be the best of that bunch.

[blackjack]

Apologies in advance. I don't know my way around this site yet, but I want to thank all responders sincerely for their comments. (Thought I had. - but now don't know.)It's just great to get really useful feedback and ideas to think about.

Outsider 1. Dave, thanks mate. Your ability to look at the values and come up with a list shows clear vision and thoughtfulness. Yes, the $ choice is tough, but my gut feeling is I've waited so long to own a boat, it's fair to pick a solid one, not just on price. Let the bank worry about it. ;D

Chimo, good thoughts on the motors and the advice about the mechanic. We're going for a test run tomorrow on Lake Macquarie and the conditions may not be ideal - we hope. I'll post my reactions when I can. We're gonna use our CRV to tow the boat a short distance and do the dropping and picking up. Could be revealing. Also Is BM a member of this site (for the second hand boat guide? ) Could you please clarify that for me? Cheers.

FNQ, Yea mate. Planning to be able to take a trip every time I feel like it out to Broughton Island. After looking at that place from the shoreline for the past 25 yrs, I'm planning to enjoy it as much as possible!!:P Reliable, wll known dealer overestimated the weight, but good to check on things all the same.

Mirage, Scotty. Thanks for your on his tee mate. The Viking was owned by a local doctor who has never really had the time to play with it, poor b. Hence the low motor use at only 49 hours for 8 yrs. The boat itself looks to be in great nick, the trailer is a spanker and with new clears and storm cover it looks as tho' I've already made up my mind.8-)

Jabba, yea the resale value on the Seafarers looks to be pretty good. I've been lookin' and they are hard to find. I saw a 91 model with original johno 90 motor and trailer recently for 13K. I've got to tell you that the hull was in great shape, the motor - well it's had it's day prolly, and the trailer would need replacing sooner than later too. New motor and she'd be a beauty. ;)

Ozscott, Tenzing, Clee, Ocean Spirit and Spaniard Your posts combine to build a pretty grand picture and consolidate my gut feeling. Ocean, my wife has seen the post and she is already ready to go for the big buggers. So stfup!!! Laughter all around.

Sh_t. I can see a bigger loan looming..........^^^^^^$$$$

Jack. (and Jen)

[Chimo]

Hi Jack and Jen

Check out the Seafarer Victory, even with a 150 HP its a great rig with good bunks and a lot of space and v good resale. The 5.9 m older versions have the same hull as the Vermont, another great boat and the 6.0 m Victory is the later version

Yes BM is a member

to wit from another thread ;)

Cheers
Chimo
( Happy Vagabond Owner )

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Re: 2nd Hand boat inspections (pre purchase) NEED HELP !!
I could help you if you were in Melb but I don't know anyone who could assist up your way.

Try a local marine mechanic, but make sure he understands trailers and hulls and perhaps not so obviously, engines of ALL brands.....

You should easily find something in your budget but careful selection will be required. I wish I could help more, but I can't. Although, I will be transiting through Brisbane very soon on my way to the Solomons for a big repair job and will be back through Bris a few days later in these early stages of the job.

Cheers
Buying a USED boat?? You NEED my "Boat Inspections Made Easy" manual. PM for details

[tenzing]

Hey Blackjack,
1. Very comprehensive reply to the posts.
2. You dont find many unhappy seafarer owners( unless they're forced to sell)

Brendan(very satisfied seafarer owner)

PS. WELCOME

[TimiBoy]

Hi Jack and Jen

Check out the Seafarer Victory, even with a 150 HP its a great rig with good bunks and a lot of space and v good resale. The 5.9 m older versions have the same hull as the Vermont, another great boat and the 6.0 m Victory is the later version



My thoughts exactly. Borrow more. You might get into an older one for 40 or so, and it would be well worth it. But obviously affordability is not info we have!

I don't have one, but I nearly did, they are hard to go past for quality and ride, and you'll get most of your money back at the other end. I went bigger in the end, just had to wait a while....

Cheers,

Tim

[revs57]

G'day Jack,

A mate had a Freedom Escape with a 90 yam on it - a nice outfit, built to a price, probably a little light for serious off shore, but a good Bay option. At 25k reasonably priced I would think

Certainly the hainse or the seafarer for longevity and build quality, as others have said, the viking or the 530c as you'd get a more stable platform and a bit more flexibility to go offshore on the good days

Cheers

Rhys

[mattyd]

I can't really comment on the other boats (as I'm still new to anything much bigger than a tinny), but I've just gone halves with my brother in law in a '07 Freedom Escape 5.3m he owns.

I can tell you that my uses are similar to yours (fishing around Moreton Bay, pleasure cruising, etc) and the odd trip to Moreton Island / Tangalooma wrecks when the weather's good.

It's got a 90hp ETEC and some nice 'smart' features like demountable rear seats that also double as eskies / bait & fish holders. Or just unclip them and you've got a nice big open deck for fishing all around.

25k for a Freedom Escape sounds like a good deal if you ask me. I know my brother in law paid around 34k new all up with extras about 18 months ago.

I'm still waiting for the wind up here in Brisbane to calm down on weekends, only been out in her one time so far. But I can highly recommend this boat as a good all-rounder (esp. if you're not going into open water much).

[TimiBoy]

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/details.aspx?R=2924765

Nice boat, bet you could knock the price down a bit...

[JB]

I'll put my 2 bob in and vouch for the viking also. I've fished out of a victory and it is one of the best cuddy cabs i've ever been in.

The viking is really that perfect balance of offshore capability vs economy/towing requirements. A future repower would make a great boat and awesome one.

Jas

[For Steve]

I go through a similar debate in working out what to get when I upgrade next year. No doubt the Seafarer are a top boat but I'd be looking at a pretty old one with the $30K budget I'm working on. If I buy new, I like the Yalta Craft 535 Allrounder with a Yamaha 100hp 4 stroke (about $33K). Also the Haines Signature 540F and 542F are a good used boat option.

Not sure about tow weight of any of these.

[Jabba_]

I go through a similar debate in working out what to get when I upgrade next year. No doubt the Seafarer are a top boat but I'd be looking at a pretty old one with the $30K budget I'm working on. If I buy new, I like the Yalta Craft 535 Allrounder with a Yamaha 100hp 4 stroke (about $33K). Also the Haines Signature 540F and 542F are a good used boat option.

Not sure about tow weight of any of these.
That is a fair comment, but what should remember is even tho you might have to buy an older boat you will still be buying a better boat, beter built, better riding, better resale. Granted you will most likely need to tidy it up and repower it, and that could all up, cost the same as a brand new Yalta or pursuit....
But what you will have now is a top class boat with a new lease off life, and with a bit off work you can make that hull look like it is brand new....

Seafarer Boats have changed very little over the past 10 years, so an older one spruced up will look and feel like new...

[For Steve]

That is a fair comment, but what should remember is even tho you might have to buy an older boat you will still be buying a better boat, beter built, better riding, better resale. Granted you will most likely need to tidy it up and repower it, and that could all up, cost the same as a brand new Yalta or pursuit....
But what you will have now is a top class boat with a new lease off life, and with a bit off work you can make that hull look like it is brand new....

Seafarer Boats have changed very little over the past 10 years, so an older one spruced up will look and feel like new...

Yeah, I hear what you're saying and couldn't agree more. New, lower quality vs. used, higher quality. I change my mind every couple of weeks. Luckily, I've got until this time next year to make a final decision.

Back to the original post, my vote is for Viking 5.5m.

Best of luck with your decision. I'd definately recommend an independant pre-purchase inspection.

Regards
Brad

[blackjack]

Just back from a round trip to Sydney (bloody get lost even when I know where I'm goin'!!!) to check out some boats. The navigator wasn't much help either. :-X

Well gents, it's thanks to the comments on here that I checked out and test drove the Seafarer Viking I mentioned in my first post.

The conditions were mill pond so it was impossible to get a feel for the ride in the rough. The boat was in top nick and I was impressed at least as far as you can be when you don't really know what you're looking for. To tell the truth, Jenny couldn't turn the boat out of a circle turn with just the mechanical steering. Other than that no complaints and in the bit of swell we were in the boat ride seemed pretty cushioned as it cut thru'. We kept driving...poked around a few...

Then we saw the Seafarer Ventura. What a beauty. 5.5m of immaculate conception at least as far as our needs are concerned. The guy, 2nd owner, just hasn't got the time to play with her.

So here's the line up:

Ventura 5.5 1998 with a 150hp 2001 Johno 168 hrs work (originally had a different engine that had problems and was eventually replaced)
Seafarer trailer in top nick with spare - the spare tyre had a cover too!
Custom made canvas boat cover and engine sock.
Custom made super stainless steel bimini with rocket launchers and light
New ignition (he lost the key recently)
Rear wrap around lounge - removable
Loo (keeps the girls smiling)
Safety gear/fire exting
Garmin fish finder and gps
Specially balanced on the trailer to take the weight off the towbar - can lift the boat up easily by myself
I can fit in the cabin if a sleepover was on the cards - probably won't get any sleep tho!
140L stainless tank with filler
Directed steering (should help a lot with the turning)
CD/Radio with 4 speakers
Viper SS prop
Front and side clears as new
Marine radio
Aussie flag hanging off the aerial - vital
Zip up cabin curtains
Adjustable swivel seats - forward or back movement
Glove box (none in the 2000 Viking)
The guy has the same CRV as us that he tows her short distances withAll this sounds good. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so we're taking her out next week at Port Hacking (if we don't get lost again).

I'd be glad of any comments on the boat NOT my directional skills. Paid $500 holding deposit so far and I've got to say, I'd be pretty surprised if everything isn't just fine with the testy.

Thanks again for all your comments.
Jack

Can't wait to get her. :P

[finding_time]

I'm going with the viking aswell! i have spent abit of time in one and was quite impressed!

[Ocean_Spirit]

Great choice mate.

I have spent a fair amount of time in a 1998 Viking 5.5Mtr with a 150 Evinrude, and also a 1995 Ventura 5.5Mtr with an older 115HP 90 Degree Johnson. As well as trips in later model Ventura's and Viking's. They are a great 18" boat, and they absolutely motor with the 150 V6. If you are planning to do some single skiing, this engine will give you plenty of out of the hole grunt.

The final point of advice is to have a mechanical inspection on the engine and have it compression tested, and check the gearbox oil. A general inspection of the trailer, before you tow, is always worthwhile, and check tyre pressure, bearings, winch wire, etc. All preventative maintenance items that sometimes 'go-off' sitting in a yard, and are easily replaced if required.

The fact that it is sitting on a Seafarer Tinka trailer is a real plus, and with the Johnson, it sounds like a true set-up. I'm sure it'll impress on the water.

[polky]

Jack you won,t go wrong with a seafarer or a signature, imo they are on par, take into account sometimes there will be only you and your Lady to load/unload boat at ramp. I have a 4.95f signature, good allround boat, goes out wide (60nm) then up the river or out the dam, and I can put her in and out of the water by myself. Polky.

[finding_time]

Specially balanced on the trailer to take the weight off the towbar - can lift the boat up easily by myself
Sounds goods apart from this which sounds like a potential disaster! Mate the ball weight should be 10% of the overall weight of the rig otherwise at speed the trailer will have the potential to fishtail behind the car!:o This may end up dumping the boat onto the road or worse!;)

Ian

[Outsider1]

Hi Jack,

Finding_time's post on towbar weight is spot on. 10% of the weight of the rig on the tow bar is the ideal set up i.e. if the whole rig weighs 1500kgs then towball weight should be 150kgs. If the setup is as light as you say it is, it is a potential towing disaster with a high probability of a mishap!

Make sure you get a boat inspection, irrespective of how good the boat looks. The trailer and its set up will be one of the things they will check.

The Ventura is a beautiful boat no doubt, a very good choice for your needs.

I assume by Directed steering you mean it has Hydraulic steering?. If so yes a lot better than mechanical steering especially with a 150hp motor, and no cable to wear out, seize or break!.

Cheers

Dave

[blackjack]

Ocean, good advice about the inspection. Gonna try and get that done this week.

As for the trailer thing Finding, yea I obviously wouldn;t want that to happen so I need to pick up some more knowledge from places and the seller to prevent any catastrophies!

I am going down with a coupla mates, yea bigger than the seller, so it shouldn't be any hassle to sort this out...:D just kiddin'. They are both boat owners, one's an engineer, got a Hunstman Crusader - bloody nice big boat that one - and we're gonna tow the Ventura (highway ;) ) home behind a V8 Toyota Sahara. At least they know what they're doing. I'm on the 'L' plates.

Gotta start somewhere or I'd be left on the shore!

If I can work out how to do it I'll post some pic's in the future.

Hope they're biting. Jack

PS Anyone looking for a bloody nice Viking - I know where one is, hardly on the yard from the trade-in. PM me for details. In Newcastle.


pps. just caught your post Dave. Thanks mate, the info about the towing thing is obviously crucial. Maybe I just didn't understand the guy. As for the directed steering, well he said it's not hydraulic, something he had added, and I don't know what the #@*k (#@*k) it is exactly. Engineer mate will help. Cheers.

[thelump]

Just to add to the mix if it is not too late. I wouldnt discount the Mustang. A friend of mine has the 1750 and it is a great boat(Lives in Newcastle)Goes wide offshore in it and a lot of time around Lake Macquarie and overnighters with the missus. The 1600 is smaller but looks quite good. Tommos at Marks point in Newy has one with a 90 Opti for 26k brand new. Food for thought?

[ozscott]

Mate - well done sounds good. I read you post about the ease with which you can lift the goose neck...I thought bloody hell. Then others have commented likewise...if you tow it light that, partic at highway speeds you may well find that your in the bushes. Way too much weight down the back. Either that or your a power lifter and dont notice the 150kgs off downforce!

What is directed stearing?

Cheers

[blackjack]

Just to add to the mix if it is not too late. I wouldnt discount the Mustang. A friend of mine has the 1750 and it is a great boat(Lives in Newcastle)Goes wide offshore in it and a lot of time around Lake Macquarie and overnighters with the missus. The 1600 is smaller but looks quite good. Tommos at Marks point in Newy has one with a 90 Opti for 26k brand new. Food for thought?

Well it's not over yet, not until the fat lady sings. The Ventura is the go if eveything checks out. Thanks for the food tho'.

I did check that boat package out. It's prolly not a bad option for the $. Pretty rough in the cabin with the wires uncovered - you'd have to sort that.

The Optimax is a big bugger isn't it? :o

Jack

[blackjack]

Oz Scott, wish the heck I knew what "directed steering" is now. Should have asked more q's. Was a bit rushed and overhwhelmed by the missus' enthusiasm over the boat, but I will get the oil next week b4 I hand over the dough.

Jack.

[ozscott]

take your time matey - its can be an abosulte joy, but take the time to get it all sorted. I have seen the results of a dual axle set up with a Reef Runner on it with insifficient weight to the front...mate it wasnt pretty!


Cheers

PS. Keep the feedback and questions up...plenty of people who can help on here.

[Chimo]

Direct steering isnt cable is it?

Chimo

[thelump]

Well it's not over yet, not until the fat lady sings. The Ventura is the go if eveything checks out. Thanks for the food tho'.

I did check that boat package out. It's prolly not a bad option for the $. Pretty rough in the cabin with the wires uncovered - you'd have to sort that.

The Optimax is a big bugger isn't it? :o

Jack


They are big buggers. Pretty good motors though. I actually know the tommos boys and it isnt like them to do a bodgey job. I have had 2 mates buy mustangs off them and both setups were smick. Good luck with ya boat whatever you choose I'm sure it will be a blast. I can personally recommend Yaltas but not too many down that way.

[blackjack]

I actually know the tommos boys and it isnt like them to do a bodgey job. I have had 2 mates buy mustangs off them and both setups were smick.

No mate, I'm not saying the boys at Tommo's would do a bodgey job AT ALL. It's just when the wife climbed into the cabin, she commented on the bare wires sticking out the back of the dash gauges on the demonstrator.

The guys weren't there, but when she asked the owners wife, she thought something could be rigged up so your didn't dislodge the buggers. Prolly the rig wasn't ready or somethin'.

Nice looking boat too.

Jack

[pearcer69]

J
Specially balanced on the trailer to take the weight off the towbar - can lift the boat up easily by myself

Blackjack, Please make sure that the trailer is balanced properly EG: 10% of the weight on the tow bar. I was a Rescue Officer for 20 years and attended 6 fatal accidents where the trailers were incorrectly loaded or incorrectly setup causing the accident. In all cases the fatalities were the innocent people in the oncoming car.

Mate, I'm not having a go at you or anyone else but I can't implore you enough and everyone else on this site to make sure your trailers are correctly and legally setup.

I'm sorry if I come on a bit strong but I would hate to think that another person was killed just because it made it easier to lift the trailer and boat on and off the tow ball.
Cheers,
Rosco