Running Lights and Anchor Light

[Reel Nauti]

There seems to be a hell of a lot of confusion over the use of the anchor light at night, and now I'm confused as well!

According to the MSQ site the 'stern' light is to be on at all times between dusk and dawn, but I have always thought the 'stern' light was in fact the 'anchor' light and only required to be switched on when not underway at night.

If the MSQ and others are correct, the stern/anchor light is to be switched on and left on regardless of your situation at night?? Is this right??

I know the port/starboard nav lights only have to on when underway.

I guess it's stupid to doubt the MSQ, but I am confused about 'stern' and 'anchor'.

Your thoughts please?

Dave

[Ando74]

You need a white light!!!

It can either be an all round light when underway (which is what an anchor light is) or a stern light (which should be visable up to 22.5 deg abaft the beam)

Many rec boaties seem to get this confused and think you only need sidelights when underway.

Q.How can you see only side lights when coming up on the stern of another vessel in darkness?

A.You can't!

When at anchor you need the all round light on, sidelights off.

Basic wording I know, but with no all round light or sternlight on, don't be surprised to see a bow come crashing through your stern.

[Mindi]

International rules are sometimes modified for simplicity (in Vic for example) but the real requirement as I understand it is an all round anchor light visible 360 deg shown alone when stopped at anchor. Not a stern light.
A stern light is the third running light designed to complete the 360 deg circle view of a moving boat...so you see white from astern, red from Port to dead ahead and green from dead ahead to starboard...and their angles of display add up to the full circle.
So your stern light comes on and off with your red and green......not your all round white anchor light....and you should not display your running lights (red/green/white) while stopped...they are intended to indicate a moving boat.

[Reel Nauti]

thanks guys. A large number of boats that I see underway at night do not display a stern light, and then I see an anchor light come on when they've stopped. I'll be the first to admit that until recently I have done the same for 30years. It is only since we've moved to Brisbane that I have been turning the
stern/anchor light on when underway as well as at anchor which means I have it on continuously between dusk and dawn.

I find it a pain in the bum when underway. I sit on the tiller, and the glare the light throws in the boat interferes with my night vision.

Dave

[Ando74]

Dave,

A properly segregated stern light run out over the stern on an angle will cut a lot of the glare out. (You'll still need an allround light when at anchor.)

Just a point on the sidelights, they should also remain on if you are drifting, and only be switched off if you are actually anchored.

[Reel Nauti]

Yes Andy and the same goes for the stern light. When drifting, the vessel is considered to be underway.

Cheers

Dave

[DALEPRICE]

Good thread guys,

i think a lot of the mixed idears are comming from the fact that people are
getting mixed up between a all round white light and mast head/ stern lights.

The basic principle is that between dusk and dawn no matter what you are doing
you must have a 360* white light shown at ALL TIMES. This rule of a 360* white light is a rule for vessels under 12m in length. IF OVER 12M IN LENGTH only then you need to comply with a masthead light, sternlight and towing light.

Hope this helps and if these rules came straight out of the small ships training manual. If you need more info let me no and i can scan the pages and post them on this site if you need.

cheers dale

p.s forgot to say that underway you should have the port and starboard displayed as well.

[TheRealAndy]

The international rules (rule 23) state you dont need running lights if you are smaller than 7 metres, and less than 7knts, you only need allround white light. Between 7 and 12 you need allround white light and sidelights

They also state (rule 30) that an anchor light is only required in a narrow channel or anchorage, yet they dont actually specify what a narrow channel is exactly.

I cant remember the exact name, but if you do a google for the international collision regulations (1972) you should find the international law.

MSQ website follows the internationa regs, but I am yet to find this in any qld or federal law. I would really like to find it though, and I am sure that it exists.

There is only 2 standards across the world, and they are aviation and maritime laws.

[r3volt]

You can use a stern light when anchored aslong as you can see it from any angle which on most boats you can... Or just do what most people do and use only a torch when someones about to drive over you

[DALEPRICE]

Not really sure where your comming from Andy,

are you not clear on the rules or not sure which law to follow?

Cheers dale

[TheRealAndy]

You can use a stern light when anchored aslong as you can see it from any angle which on most boats you can... Or just do what most people do and use only a torch when someones about to drive over you


Rule 30, cut down to the relevant parts:

(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

AS far as I am concerned that is open to interpretation, and that is a legal loophole that could easily be argued in court. However, common sense still prevails, and as a skipper you must take every action possible to avoid a collision. That is a lot harder to argue in a court.

I just bought an allround LED anchor light for a tad over $50 bucks. The battery will last forever and is much safer than using a torch when someone is about to run you down. Your life is worth a lot more than $50.

[TheRealAndy]

Not really sure where your comming from Andy,

are you not clear on the rules or not sure which law to follow?

Cheers dale

I go by the international regs, but I would like to see this cited in some state or federal law.

[Mindi]

This is what I was alluding to before..some states modify their regs to make it legal to just run with an allround white and port/starboard...which is certainly NOT the international standard law as established by IMO. Vic was always like this...dont know if still the case. Managed by the Paris based International Maritime Organisation (IMO).

[TheRealAndy]

This is what I was alluding to before..some states modify their regs to make it legal to just run with an allround white and port/starboard...which is certainly NOT the international standard law as established by IMO. Vic was always like this...dont know if still the case. Managed by the Paris based International Maritime Organisation (IMO).

Allround white and port/starboard IS the internation reg for boats between 7 and 12 meters , and less than 7 metres but greater than 7knots hull speed as stated by the IMO.

Rule 23 snipped to the relevant parts.




(c) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;
(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights;

[mod5]

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Navigation_lights/

Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light. Sailboats under engine power are considered to be power-driven ships, and must show the same lights as a power-driven ship.
All ships at anchor must show an all-round white light.

[Reel Nauti]

Thanks Mod 5. My interpretation of that is: if you don't use the all round white light, then you must a stern AND a masthead light.

So for me with a 4.4mt boat (and capable of more than 7 knots), between dusk and dawn, whether at anchor or underway, the all round white light (anchor light) must be displayed(as I don't have a masthead light nor a stern light).

So why is it that so few abide by this?

Dave

[mod5]

Thanks Mod 5. My interpretation of that is: if you don't use the all round white light, then you must a stern AND a masthead light.

So for me with a 4.4mt boat (and capable of more than 7 knots), between dusk and dawn, whether at anchor or underway, the all round white light (anchor light) must be displayed(as I don't have a masthead light nor a stern light).

So why is it that so few abide by this?

Dave

Look at the number of people on here who don't abide by Ausfish rules. Many people in general have no respect for rules regardless of who makes them.

[TheRealAndy]

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Navigation_lights/
Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light. Sailboats under engine power are considered to be power-driven ships, and must show the same lights as a power-driven ship.
All ships at anchor must show an all-round white light.

This is the part that I have been trying to find in QLD or federal law. Can only find it on MSQ website.

[mod5]

The Queensland Legislation is Transport Operations (Marine
Safety) Regulation 2004 http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TranstOpMSyR04.pdf

Section 126 describes "Person Operating Ship Must Comply With Collision Regulations." and refers to the USL Code (Uniform Shipping Laws Code). This is Commonwealth Legislation

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/USL/uslc-section16.pdf Part C - Rule 20 refers to Navigation Lights. ;)

[TheRealAndy]

The Queensland Legislation is Transport Operations (Marine
Safety) Regulation 2004 http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TranstOpMSyR04.pdf

Section 126 describes "Person Operating Ship Must Comply With Collision Regulations." and refers to the USL Code (Uniform Shipping Laws Code). This is Commonwealth Legislation

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/USL/uslc-section16.pdf Part C - Rule 20 refers to Navigation Lights. ;)

Looks like I have a few weeks reading ahead of me!8-)

[TheRealAndy]

The Queensland Legislation is Transport Operations (Marine
Safety) Regulation 2004 http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TranstOpMSyR04.pdf

Section 126 describes "Person Operating Ship Must Comply With Collision Regulations." and refers to the USL Code (Uniform Shipping Laws Code). This is Commonwealth Legislation


A quick brief over this suggest that you have to comply with the international regs, which is listed in the other link (below)



http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/USL/uslc-section16.pdf Part C - Rule 20 refers to Navigation Lights. ;)

This is a copy of the international regs. This contradicts what the MSQ website states.

BTW. I am not a lawyer, but I have a few mates that are. Will discuss with them.

[mod5]

Sorry, read rule 23. It is the same only MSQ put it in everyday English.

[dnej]

If you talk to most boaties,the reason they dont travel with the all round white,is due to the glare,which limits vision.So you can see more with the light off,and in my opinion safer,but that limits who can see you from the stern.
I have replaced mine,with a light that can be seen for 2 miles,yet does not shine in your eyes.
David

[TheRealAndy]

Sorry, read rule 23. It is the same only MSQ put it in everyday English.

As I said in a previous post:

Rule 23 snipped to the relevant parts.

(c) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;
(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights;

That is a direct quote from the IMO international collision regulations. That is also the exact same document published here http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/USL/uslc-section16.pdf

So either the MSQ website is wrong, or there is another by law that we are un aware of. I will chase up MSQ and see if I can get an answer. I can understand where the confusion lies.

BTW, there is by laws to the IMO regs, and one such example is rowing boats in the brisbane river. I cant quote the exact law but its something like rowing boats must carry a flashing light. This occured after the ferry collided with a rowing scull

[mod5]

MSQ states - Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light.

USL states - A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;

MSQ states - Power-driven ships less than seven metres in length and whose speed does not exceed seven knots, may show an all round white light in lieu of sidelights. If practical, these ships should also show sidelights.

USL states - a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights;

Whats the difference except length which is irrelevant in this case.

[TheRealAndy]

MSQ states - Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light.

USL states - A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;

MSQ states - Power-driven ships less than seven metres in length and whose speed does not exceed seven knots, may show an all round white light in lieu of sidelights. If practical, these ships should also show sidelights.

USL states - a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights;

Whats the difference except length which is irrelevant in this case.

The difference is that here you quoted:


http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Navigation_lights/
Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light. Sailboats under engine power are considered to be power-driven ships, and must show the same lights as a power-driven ship.
All ships at anchor must show an all-round white light.


Neither statment agree with IMO. IMO clearly states under rule 23 sidelights and allround white (unless you are over 12 meters, and less than 7 metres with a hull speed of les than 7knots)

A sailing boat under rule 25 states side lights and sternlight, but if under 7 metres only requires a torch to prevent collision.

IMO rule 30 states: A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

[Xahn1960]

I'm very glad I stopped to read this thread but you guy's are starting to confuse me. I take it that if I'm moving at night I should be runing my anchor light and side lights to be legal. My boat is 6.4m and does not have a stern light.... do I need to fit one ????

Bill.

[dnej]

Bill,
A masthead light points towards the bow,225 degrees,and must be combined with a 125 degree light pointing toward the stern,making a 360 pattern,in total.

Alternatively,you may use an allround white light ( Anchor light),so long as it can be seen all round without a break.

Yes,you should have your white light on when travelling at night,and it must be able to be seen from all directions. Must also be on when stationary.

That is why some boats have a stern light as well as an all round white,as canopies can stop the view.

If you have a look at the links given previously,there are some good diagrams

Regards David

[Hornet Rider]

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Safety/Navigation_lights/
Power-driven ships must show sidelights and either an all round white light or a stern and masthead light. Sailboats under engine power are considered to be power-driven ships, and must show the same lights as a power-driven ship.
All ships at anchor must show an all-round white light.

Keep in mind that the MSQ lighting requirements are the bare minimum, not the most 'risk managed' sequence for lighting a boat at night. Also keep in mind that there are more casual/part time/less experienced? recreational boaties in & around coastal waters at night , then professional mariners , so it would be both prudent & good sense (not common sense - there's no such thing) to light your vessel to give other vessels the best opportunity to 'see & avoid' you. Like:
* keep your running lights on, even at anchor - there's no rule against it
* have a stern white light & a masthead light
* have an all-round white light
* consider fitting a white strobe light, for use when needed, that can be seen all-round, especially good for low visibility conditions (fog, rain, haze, heaving seas) & will catch the attention of the most inattentive, tired or poorly sighted crew of other vessels
* keep a quality, waterproof hand torch, preferably with a heloegn bulb or LED, either attached to you or carried by you, or within immediate reach
* have a fitted or portable air horn
* practice emergency engine starts, & always be ready to get your vessel underway just in case the threat vessel is either out of control, unmanned or unable to take avoiding action
* always wear a lifejacket at night

..... may have digressed a tad from the main issue, but risk reduction ( read - staying alive & uninjured) is a layered process & vessel lights is just one component of that process

cheers, Mark

[moater]

Look at the number of people on here who don't abide by Ausfish rules. Many people in general have no respect for rules regardless of who makes them.

Good point mod5!

There are always going to be blockheads that think they are better than the rules or the rules aren't 'cool' enough for them.These are quite often those that kill innocent people whether in cars,boats or any other form of transport.:(

[Reel Nauti]

Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread. In my mind now it is clear what I am required to have by law, as has been reiterated here on several occasions with quotes from the MSQ.

This has been valuable for me, for as we know ignorance is no excuse for being outside of the law.

Cheers and many thanks

Dave