Greenbackathon

[Slider]

Had an excellent session on the tailor this afternoon. Started with 2 choppers on the turn of the tide before a school of 2 - 3.5kg fish came into the gutter in feeding mode. Beached around 20 fish before I started counting and the next 21 casts in a row all produced greenbacks without a fish being dropped all afternoon. Can't do that on a Raider. Kept 2 choppers and 2 around 3kg. They went off the chew just on dusk.

Lindsay

[mowerman]

Nice session Lindsay



Good to hear from you again.

[bondy99]

Had an excellent session on the tailor this afternoon. Started with 2 choppers on the turn of the tide before a school of 2 - 3.5kg fish came into the gutter in feeding mode. Beached around 20 fish before I started counting and the next 21 casts in a row all produced greenbacks without a fish being dropped all afternoon. Can't do that on a Raider. Kept 2 choppers and 2 around 3kg. They went off the chew just on dusk.

Lindsay


Thats a very good effort. I can only dream about it, never caught one in 6 year drought. Did you use a lure or ganged hooks with pillies. No fish caught on the sand pumping jetty, not when I've gone that is, seems like its the "mate should have been here yesterday" scenario with me.

Peter

[jackash]

good sesh mate. looks to be shaping up as a very good season. have there bee many about up till now?

[Slider]

Are you heading to Fraser this year are you Jackash? Mate it's been absolutely woeful on the tailor for a couple of years and this was a very isolated incident. I don't expect the season to be much different to last year except for there being better water to chase them in this year. There just aren't the numbers of tailor to be able to provide good seasons any more.
Pete, all tailor I catch are taken on Sliding lures (Sliders) and I mainly use a 45g. And to beach around 80 fish and only drop one fish, is unheard of on conventional metal lures - just can't happen due to the nature of attached hook metal lures. Usual ratio would be to beach 7 out of 10 choppers and 3 out of 10 greenbacks. The Sliders solved that problem for me years ago and there is no way I would use attached hook lures on tailor.
Heading down shortly to see what's doin this morning.

Lindsay

[Horse]

Good to see there are still a few good schools around. That would have been a mind blowing session. It must be time to shake the spiders out of the old waders

Cheers

Neil

[IRMC000]

Great session - Post a pic of your Sliders

[Murks]

Well done Lindsay. Sounds like a lot of fun
Brett

[gaz066]

Lindsay , great session , I'm looking forward to getting my hands on those little gems.

Garry

[Slider]

I'll be making them up over the weekend Garry and in the post on monday.
I'll put up a pic of the Sliders shortly IRMC000.
Only half a doz small choppers this morning and there were a fair few casts between strikes. Were taking slow or paused lures which indicates they are not in feeding mode and prob won't be until next weekend. Nothing being caught by the bait guys and were complaining of not being able to get a bite.
Never worn waders Neil and they would have filled with water wading through the chest deep gutter to get to the bank I was fishing off. I'm sure they're warm but I like to have mobility and the spinning helps to keep warm.
Brett, it was lots of fun given the lack of tailor of recent times. I was glad when they stopped chewing tho as I was cramping between the shoulder blades and my left wrist was complaining a fair bit. Kept waiting for a better quality fish to turn up or I would have pulled the pin earlier.

[Pistol_P]

Top stuff Lindsay,

That would have been a great session.

Early signs of a good tailor season maybe...????


Pete

[Slider]

Sliders - because the slug has a hole through the middle like a sinker, the lure slides up the wire or mono trace during headshake from a fish. This takes away entirely the leverage that the fish has by swinging a weighty metal lure violently from side to side, causing the hooks to come out the path they went in. Tailor are wicked headshakers and when using attached hook lures we found we were dropping nearly every 5lb+ fish hooked and lots of choppers when they leap and headshake. 1st cast with the first slider we made delivered the tailor on the lure card after dropping around 10 similar sized fish - is when we realised we might be on to something. And since then the results have spoken for themselves. And when tailor are dropped in the gutter (particularly greenbacks), they spook the rest of the school and they all exit the gutter. So not only were we landing more and better fish, the schools aren't spooking, which means we can keep them on the chew for much longer which adds massively to the return. Is actually enjoyable to have fish leap now, whereas before we were trying to prevent fish from leaping by reducing tension as they are about to leap which is risky. The sliding lure also helps to keep tension during headshakes and casts further than any other slug I've used due to the way they are weighted and density of the lead and white metal component.
Exactly the same principles are applied to australian salmon, queenfish, billfish, barra and mahi mahi. - most billfish lures are sliders but strength is a factor also. Sliding poppers for barra (and other species) are very effective and the easiest poppers by far to make at home.

Lindsay

[nuggstar]

id like to give them lures you make a good flogging. i love tailor. top work

[Sharkie]

Where can i pick a few of those lures up from mate? Goitta give them a go hehe

[Slider]

Wide A Wake tackle at Noosa Harbour always have some stock and if Stuey needs more then I'm a phone call away.
Roger at the Tackle Store Carseldine may still have a few and Mossops W'gabba also.
Or directly from me - ldines@bigpond.net.au

Lindsay

[Sharkie]

Cheers mate

Oh and what weight to you tend to go for?

[_Dan_]

I got mine at Mossops woolloongabba, ask Tol and he has them.

You can also make them yourself now i have seen

Nice to hear some fish being caught up there..

[Slider]

Sharkie, I tend to go for the 45g. The reason being that they hurt less than the bigger slugs when retrieving hundreds of times a day and particularly on outgoing tides. I also use 9lb Schneider with a 15 - 20lb mono casting leader which allows me good distance with lighter lures. If I was using 15lb mono straight through, then I would use either the 55 or 65g slugs to help achieve distance on the cast.
To be considered when looking at sizing of slugs when chasing tailor, is that most people tend to use them when there is a hot bite happening on pilchards. To use a different sized slug to that of the pilchard that the tailor see as their prey, won't work. For eg. I found a good school of tailor just north of Teewah several years ago using the 45g slider. A heap of cars pulled up and the guys started throwing pilchards out. The tailor went off the slug completely and there were 30 people catching tailor all around me and I couldn't get a strike. So put on a 65g which was snavelled after 2 turns of the reel - caught another x number of fish and the pilchards didn't get any more at all. So at Fraser with all the pilchard users about, the larger lures can do better. Is a version of 'matching the hatch'.

[Slider]

The subject of making them yourself came up on here a year or 2 ago - "Sliders How To Make" (??) was the thread title I think.
Sliding poppers - piece of heavy dowel, cut into lengths, drill hole through middle, cup face if desired, paint. Floats to the surface after bust ups to be used again and again. Did have one gt at Weipa swallow the whole thing though which is the only one I've lost. Great on the queenies.

[BrandonH]

Nice work Slider!! I will be up Noosa this weekend but without the truck and boat:'( Might have to have a flick around the mouth one arvo I think...

Cheers
Brandon...

[JEWIENEWIE]

Slider, i live in byron, do you have a outlet around here to check them out or just get them through you?
Jewie

[geoff72]

hey mate,been a while hearing from you,what a great way to come back with a top post like that,going to morton isl in the next couple o months so i will give the sliders ago i got from you a while ago,hope i can score a session like that.
cheers

[Slider]

Hey Brandon, mate the 1st to 3rd cut which is all accessible by 2wd - park at 1st, 2nd or 3rd - has some fabulous water at the moment. Each gutter has a heap of rock and is sheltered a little from the southerly. Def worth spinning slugs through tho I haven't been having much joy there. But the water is too good for there not to be fish there at some stage of the day and perhaps a bit of southerly whitewater is the trigger. Should have bream, dart etc floating around.

I can help you there Jewie. Would like to be using them around Byron myself.

Pete, I don't think the netters will be far off and that will pretty well be the end of any tailor season around here until maybe October. You do get isolated catches in winter depending on time gaps between net shots and location of, but it becomes non viable to keep trying.

Dribble the slugs across the surface with the rod tip up at North Point and around the Cape Geoff. Seems to work well there. Fast slugs in the gutters at the bottom end with the rod tip pointing at the lure for the big tailor in august. Wish I was using them there too. Will just have to give them a thrash on the Weipa spaniards, broad barred, longtails, queenies and gts in july instead.

[BrandonH]

thanks Slider, I forgot about that as I usually have the 4x4 to get on the beach!! Might have to give that a go tomorrow arvo;)

cheers
Brandon...

[Mtx]

Lindsay, just been into Mossops at the Gabba ( went over especially to pick a couple up). Tol said to me that he has not had any from you since last season and he has been calling you and emailing you with no response. He told me to give you a nudge to contact him so he can get more stock as he has none.

[Nico.d.R]

Good to see your still onto them taylor , mackrel like the sliders too , i have caught more macks than taylor on the sliders i made . Might be time to stop useing pillies out the front and start useing the sliders a bit more .

wasnt that thread last year called "spinning for taylor" ?

[Nico.d.R]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=59879
i dont know if this is the thread you are talking about but it shows you how to make them .

[BLOOEY]

Very simple idea. But obviously very effective . Alot like a tassie devil. Good on ya for marketing it mate. Ben

[Slider]

Yeah Nico, there was 'Spinning for tailor' which you gave the link to and there was 'Sliders how to make' and plenty of other threads on tailor spinning where I've contributed too much info to repeat again. If I was wanting to get into spinning then I would go through spinning for tailor with a fine tooth comb as it has almost everything needed except total clarification on water identification. And without a heap of pics, or to be physically on the beach looking at it, then it's very hard to give good info that. The gutter I've been getting the tailor out of doesn't jump out at you as being a likely place and nobody else til today has been fishing there. But to me it looks the perfect gutter and I guess that's what experience and local knowledge brings. Perhaps I can take pics of a few gutters tomorrow to help this scenario.
This afternoon produced around 20 choppers (35 - 45cm) - 5 or 6 before the bottom of the tide and the rest on the turn at dusk. Had a fair bit of company from Teewah locals and a couple of guys who had never spun before had a ball and got a feed. One guy (of April QFM oyster cracker fame) was using an attached hook slug and dropped 4 fish in a row which ensured there would be no greenbacks taken. There will be more fishing there tomorrow as word has spread, but if I can put people on to fish then that is very satisfying - once I've had my bit of fun first. Often turns into beer for me anyway which seems a fair trade.
Not much traffic coming up the beach this afternoon and should be a good weekend.
Haven't heard from Tol, but will give him a call thanks Mtx.

[masterdusky]

good to see you posting again mate :D

[Slider]

Nice to have something to post again MD though don't have much to report this morning. I beached 4 choppers and nobody else managed to get a strike. Distance on the cast is the main difficulty the other guys are having - if you don't land the slug in the white water at the back of the gutter, then prospects diminish a lot. Was to be expected that they would go off the chew with a 1.29m high today. Will have a spin this arvy as there are a fair few expecting me to, but I wouldn't think there'll be much happening - especially with low tide falling after dusk. Guess we can always suck on stubbies and spin crap.

lindsay

[Slider]

4 choppers this afternoon - conditions fairly sloppy with SSE on it and water a long cast to get to. Used a 90g TT trolling head which can be used as a slider and very useful in heavy conditions.

[chisel]

Lindsay, just been into Mossops at the Gabba ( went over especially to pick a couple up). Tol said to me that he has not had any from you since last season and he has been calling you and emailing you with no response. He told me to give you a nudge to contact him so he can get more stock as he has none.

I think I'm down to my last one I think .... I'd pick up a couple more from Mossops at the gabba if I knew they had some.

[Slider]

No joy at all this morning - wet and cold for no strikes.
Have taken a couple of pics of gutters and hope that they may help id tailor water. Not a great morning for photos but the best I can do atm.

This pic is of the gutter that virt all the tailor have come from over the past few days. There is a shallow gutter in front of the gutter itself which is where we've been standing to cast from - uncomfortable but worth it. The white water out the back where a wave is just curling in the pic is where the fish are and where the cast must reach to. The rock is more or less directly in front of my Hilux and is the target area.

[Slider]

Gutter at 2nd cut - nice bank out the back to create white water, full of rock.
Target area is the corner where it opens to the sea and to the right of until gets too shallow. Landing lure in the white water as usual - nice comfortable gutter but perhaps too nice.

[Slider]

Gutter at 'Dry Creek Bed' (which hasn't been dry for a while) between 2nd and 3rd cut.
Same situation as 2nd cut gutter.

[Slider]

3954 is of gutter in the channel half way between 3rd and Teewah with scattered rock - good water but low tide only.

3956 is just north of 3rd cut - excellent bit of water with lots of rock and opens to the sea at both ends. Did get a few choppers from here around last full moon. Would be good jew water.

Lindsay

[nigelr]

Hi Lindsay.
Interesting point you made earlier re mullet netters.
We had been getting the odd nice greenback down here, albeit at night.
Lots of whitebait around at the time.
Only choppers of late, although the mullet boys have been hanging around for a couple of weeks now, they have tended to shoot at night through the week over the last couple of years, possibly to avoid local attention and increase the level of mulloway by-catch.
Don't know whether they've had too many shots this season, the beach conditions aren't too favourable for them atm, but the greenbacks seem to have dissappeared for the moment at least. I think they've had a trawler down to get into the action after the mullet get off the beach a bit, on one or two occasions.
The couple of choppers I caught on tailor strips yesterday morn both spat out large pillies, and we've had a water temp drop of a couple of degrees locally, might all be contributing features.
Fascinating subject, I've found your previous posts very informative, extremely interesting and highly enjoyable.
Cheers.

[keenfishr]

Gday slider...just curious to know if you can only use them during daylight hours...are they effective or less effective at night time???cheeers.trav p.s great session that you had....well done!

[Slider]

I have no doubts Nigel that tailor and other species have learnt over the years that nets are active at this time of year and they actively avoid inshore feeding on their spawning migration. The choppers (1 - 3 yr old fish) may still come in as they haven't learnt like the greenbacks to stay away. There is a massive amount of info on the internet about 'net avoidance' and how fish learn to do so - engine noise recognition, learning to stay away from static nets etc. Research in this area overseas is finding behavioural changes in fish due to netting, causing migratory and feeding changes in targeted species. The same situation would be occurring here.
I believe, and there is no other explanation for it, that fish in nets emit distress signals. These signals are relayed on by other fish not in the nets and 'area abandonment' occurs. (Netted pacific salmon distress signals have been recorded with a hydrophone and their altered migration tracked.) So when you get a couple of tonnes of mullet, tailor bream or whatever species - it doesn't matter - in a net, all screaming, then the other fish abandon the area. It takes 1 - 2 weeks for fish to return and the process repeats. But when the mullet keep coming out of the rivers to spawn, then the 1 -2 weeks doesn't apply to them, as they can't hear the signals due to land obstructing the sound and they have to come out of the stream to spawn - otherwise the netters would only get fish every couple of weeks. What the pros do is - hit the mouth of the Noosa for mullet when a school comes out, then move to Rainbow or D.I. as they know there won't be any fish near the river mouth. A couple of guys then net Sandy Cape before returning to the mouth of the Noosa by which time the fish ( bream, dart, tailor etc) are starting to return and more schools of mullet would be coming out.
An example of this situation that I've seen many times - Late season mackerel and tuna feeding on the surface in Laguna Bay. A net gets wrapped around a school of mullet and when the mullet realise their predicament, they start to panic. As soon as the panic starts and the mullet are visibly agitated, the schools of mackerel and tuna for as far as the eye can see, simply disappear in an instant. You can often still see the bait they were feeding on and the gannets are still diving into them, but the macks and the terns have gone and it is 1.5 - 2 weeks before they may return and in lesser numbers. Seems silly to have closed areas for terns when the fish they are totally dependent on (pelagics), are being dicked around like nobody's business. But that's another issue.
Note: sound in water travels at 5 times the speed that which it does in air. Over 700 species of fish have been recorded by hydrophone in the US alone.

So when migrations are affected and feeding patterns, then so to is recruitment. - fish are spawning in locations that are less conducive to maximum reproduction and the breeding fish are smaller which results in fewer and less robust larvae. It's a double whammy - taking the fish on a commercial level and causing spawning difficulties. It won't work for much longer.
I've been watching this whole scenario my entire life and I can go into far greater detail with examples and exactly how it all works. But that is the gist of things in a nutshell. As many would know, I've been writing about this for some time and as yet nobody has found fault with the theory. I would appreciate any feedback that does question it which is the only way for me to develop these theories further. By the way, Fisheries are well aware of this situation and the Fed Fisheries Research Centre in Canberra agree that this is occurring. Qld Fisheries don't want to know and I have yet to have any communication with them despite repeated attempts to do so. Have spoken to countless marine biologists from around the world and specialists in the field and all are in agreeance that what I'm saying would be correct.

Lindsay

[Slider]

Trav - have had quite a bit of success at night using spinners for tailor and has been a few 4kg fish taken along with lots of smaller fish at night. Mainly calm moonlit nights is when I try but if the water is good enough with lots of rock and has fish in it, then less conducive conds work also. The fish register the lure landing on the water through the lateral line and by sound and use sight sound and lateral line to track it from there. Remembering that tailor are effective night feeders and have abilities enabling this.
Have struck golden trevally more at night than during the day and big tarpon.
The gutters between 1st and 3rd cut are perfect for night spinning and with the full moon next week would be worth a go.

[keenfishr]

cheers slider!! what you have to say is very informing, appreciate your time!! all the best!!!!cya

[84mick]

Thanks Lindsay for all the info! Can a released tailor scar the school like a dropped one??
Going down to the Goldie for a session and might give the sliders a go at night! :) also how well would you rate surf poppers?

Cheers, Mick.

[RayDeR]

G'day Slider!

Are there any outlets on the northern Gold Coast (Southport etc) ?

Ray de R

[Tangles]

Slider, thumbs up for your sliders mate, love em but the old stocks are getting low.. noticed that your now whacking on trebles on your sliders, you finding this more effective?


Mike

[Slider]

Mick - the tailor school won't be spooked if the hooked fish is played past the edge of the gutter and into the swash. So if the fish is dropped in the swash or caught and released, then the fish stay on the bite. But if the fish is dropped in the gutter, then problems occur. Earn Grant informed me that this would be due to the release of pheromones from the distressed, hooked fish and he said that this is the official and accepted cause of 'spooking' in fishes. I don't disagree with Earn that pheromones play a role, but I would expect that body language (dropped fish bolting from gutter in distressed fashion) and distress vocalisations from the hooked fish, is a greater cause of spooking. The movement of water in the surf and the distance over which spooking can occur are the reasons why I suggest this would be the case. The fact that a hooked fish is usually accompanied by other members of the school until they obviously part company when the hooked fish is beached, would be at the core of why this occurs. I have theories on exactly how the spooking occurs, but it is a lengthy explanation and will sound far fetched to many readers. A bit like suggestions made originally about crocodile communication that David Attenborough talked about last night.

Mate, surf poppers can be useful when conditions are particularly calm. However, distance is critical in the surf and the poppers largely won't reach the water where the fish are. I generally alter my retrieval method and downsize the slug in calm conds - crank hard for first 10 metres, then lift the rod tip to near vertical and reduce retrieval speed so that the lure is dribbling across the surface (bit like a popper). The key being that the lure must break the surface and make some noise to excite a fish to strike. The same method used off headlands is very effective also. Poppers off headlands work a treat as the fish can be a lot closer to your casting position.

Mike, the pics of the slugs on lure cards was for tackle shop purposes. I only use opposite facing single hooks of 3/0 to 6/0 for tailor on 40g and larger slugs. Occasionally I'll use trebles for queenies, tuna and mackerel, but not often.
Interesting thing when we - Chris Geddes at Snapper Fridges/Marine refrigeration and Electrical Scarborough and myself - first started to market Sliders around 10 years ago, we were strongly advised by a well known lure distributor and television identity, to use very small trebles on the tackle shop version so as to increase margin. My response was that we can't as it reduces the ability of the lures to work for the consumer. He just shook his head - but we released them with 2/0 and 3/0 trebles compared with his tiny number 2s. Recently, I've wanted to control further the quality of the sold product, so that the slugs work at maximum ability - so I tend to sell direct to the consumer and 'tailor' make each slug for their particular purpose. -short wire trace for mackerel; long for tailor; mono for queenies, trevally and tuna, larger opposite facing single hooks for tailor; etc. And this way I can advise the user on how they can be best used. Tackle shop staff are limited by time and knowledge of the product, to be able to convey the benefits of the sliding slug which are sitting on the wall competing on price with cheap imports that would appear on the face to be very similar items.

Ray, best bet would be to send me an email - ldines@bigpond.net.au and I'll get you organised.

Still getting a few choppers but having to cast the 90g trolling head about 150 metres to get to the fish and is a heavy retrieve due to the shape of the slug. The old bowling arm isn't liking that too much.

Lindsay

[Haines620 Mu]

Hi Slider, thanks for passing your knowledge on catching tailor on sliders...much appreciated! have you ever tried using sliders at southport...if so, any success?

[Slider]

I try not to head south at all Haines unless I'm coming home from a trip. But I know guys that have caught tailor and trevs at Southport on Sliders. Not an area that I know personally at all though. If I do go south, then it is to Byron, Iluka, Hat Head or to the rellies at Wamberal - not much in the way of marine life around Wamberal these days I must say and I'm not seeing much of the rellies now for some reason.

[84mick]

Thanks Lindsay, in regards to the poppers what I meant was the ones you can put onto a paternoster rig while using bait?

Cheers, Mick.

[Slider]

I've never used them Mick so can't comment. In fact I haven't used bait for tailor for over 12 years as I found I was getting a lot more and better quality tailor on sliders during the day. No more shivering in the surf at night when I can be drinking beer. Many of the 10lb + fish that have been taken on sliders over the years have been taken in the middle of the day so why be cold.
Had a spin in the gutter about 300 metres north of 3rd cut just after lunch this afternoon on my way back from Tewantin. Picked up 6 fairly average choppers in quick time and then dropped one - no more strikes after that. Great water on any tide this gutter with a high bank to stand on and is about 500 metres long with sections of rock. Threw the choppers back as spaniard is on the menu tonight.

Anyone interested in Teewah - my brother has a house here also which is a bit more flash than mine. He has a website we put together for rental purposes and it has some good pics (incl a couple of fish) and info on Teewah. The house is called Serendipity and is at - www.teewahbeachhouse.com (http://www.teewahbeachhouse.com) - My maroon Hilux in the pics has since turned into a white one.

Lindsay

[84mick]

No worries lindsay.

Cheers, Mick. ;)

[LostNearBribie]

Lindsay, thanks again for all the great advice you have shared with me.
Your brothers house is amazing.
Can't wait to give the sliders a go....

[Slider]

My pleasure Red - I hope they do the job for ya.

Had a spin in the gutter just north of 3rd cut this arvy for 1 just legal chopper from around 60 casts. All the locals I spoke to today - incl 2 pro wormers - couldn't lose a worm yesterday or today. Aren't any visible fish in the surf either, apart from long tom following my slug in. Should improve over the next few days though around the full moon.

Took some pics of the 3rd cut gutter as it's a beauty.....

Opening up to the north - lots of rock in this section and an excellent 'corner' where the gutter opens to the sea. The white water on the corner with rock under it - doesn't get any better than that. However, tailor are often upstream of the corner ......

[Slider]

... upstream from the corner or the guts of the gutter - again lots of scattered rock and ample white water well within range for decent casters. The tailor are often moving up and down the sand bank, under the white water between the corners at each end or to as far as the rock extends. This is where the choppers were yest and the lone one today and fish I was getting here a couple of weeks ago.

[Slider]

Looking south - Noosa Hds in the background - the gutter keeps going and is good water all along, but the rock becomes scarce. Good area for the bait fishos to get bored and keep out of the way of the workers. Dart should be plentiful in this gutter but aren't and haven't seen a bream caught there yet.