Blacksheep Reel

[chief 1]

I went to the shops and saw a Blacksheep reel for about $650,not really thinking of buying it soon,i'll save up for it though,looks like a nice,if people know about this reel,what do you think are the pros and cons on it

CHEERS

[Champilly]

Don't know about the reel itself however the price is a bit steep. Last time I saw one (which by the way was a good 18 months ago, as they have not been made for a couple of years) - they were clearing out for $450.

Then again they may be a collectors item now......

[chief 1]

the place i went is pretty expensive

[abbot_86]

yeah mate ive heard they are a great freshwater reel but thats way to expensive, youd get em alot cheaper than that.. cheers nick

[bayfisher]

The black sheep is a version of the cvz, has beefed up drag if i remember correctly. Never handled one personally but I do have a jap-spec cvz 203 and its a pretty sweet ride so no doubt the blacksheep would be a pleasure to use. If you do a quick search you will find plenty of info on the blacksheep.

Cheers Chris

[Tim_08]

Hi chief I've just bought a blacksheep 250, I believe around $650 was their new price (05) I paid $550 locally (Gladstone) and I reckon you could get one for around $500 delivered from overseas if you looked hard enough. They were a limited edition and I don't know how many there would still be left. From what I have been able to find out about them the main pro is the 7kg drag straight out of the box, widely regared as the best standard drag available from a baitcaster that size. They also have bearing supported knobs, a large "power" handle (I think it's 100mm) and like you mentioned they are a bit of a collectors item they are suped up by i'ze which is basically daiwa's "supertuning" house (think STi to subuaru). The only cons I have heard so far is they don't have a disengaging levelwind which can make casting a very long leader (leader on the spool) more difficult than say a cv-z and you have to open a sideplate to adjust the magforce brake setting. Other than that they are a highly sought after real especially for impoundment barramundi and are also saltwater fine. I've also heard people reccomend them for Papua new guinea's black bass.

Hope this helps
Tim

[NAGG]

Don't know about the reel itself however the price is a bit steep. Last time I saw one (which by the way was a good 18 months ago, as they have not been made for a couple of years) - they were clearing out for $450.

Then again they may be a collectors item now......


The sheep is regarded as one of the finest drum baitcasters built..... something like 11 bearings , 7 kgs of drag & synchronized level wind ......... Yep its a collectors piece for sure!
Arguably the best big barra reel made to date:P

Nagg

[spears]

You can still buy them new: AU $575 online

[PNG1M]

I've owned a Blacksheep 300 for two years now ($400 from an O/S supplier).
I have used it several times in PNG for black bass and barra. I have found it to be a good, solid & reliable reel that performs well but overall I found my Calcutta 400 to be smoother. So out of the two I found myself opting for the Calcutta as the first one I'd grab if I had a couple of rods set up & waiting.

The Blacksheep kind of has a 'chunky' action. A couple of mates in the fishing club gave it a try and said that it was just a straight-forward, tough, solid reel (not necessarily built for silkiness). Before my next PNG trip I'll take the sheep to Doug Burt's at Southport for a general lookover as the reel has hauled in some pretty solid black bass to 17kg. Then I'll test it out again to see if the TLC has made any difference.

[chief 1]

Cheers everyone

[reggy]

Can anyone tell me what sort of anti reverse system the black sheep has?
Is it a ratchet and dog system, or is it a one way roller bearing, or is it both?
The Calcutta 400b has both, making it, in my books, a great, outstanding value reel.
Reggy

[bayfisher]

Can anyone tell me what sort of anti reverse system the black sheep has?
Is it a ratchet and dog system, or is it a one way roller bearing, or is it both?
The Calcutta 400b has both, making it, in my books, a great, outstanding value reel.
Reggy

The cvz series have both systems, Both the millionaires and Calcutta's have their die hard followers, certainly makes for interesting debate as to which is better.

......The right answer is the millionaire ;D ;D ;D

[BR65]

The sheep is regarded as one of the finest drum baitcasters built..... something like 11 bearings , 7 kgs of drag & synchronized level wind ......... Yep its a collectors piece for sure!
Arguably the best big barra reel made to date:P

Nagg

Nearly talked me into not selling mine, might keep it for another couple of years for when those big Mondy girls get to nasty to pull out of the sticks.

[NAGG]

Nearly talked me into not selling mine, might keep it for another couple of years for when those big Mondy girls get to nasty to pull out of the sticks.

Hey Brian ...... As a matter of interest , What would you replace it with ????

Chris

[NAGG]

Seeing that the Sheep has been around for a few years now! .. What is considered as the current equivalent :-/

Would it be the Bluebacker ? ..... or is there some other JDM that would hold the mantle ?

Just Curious

Nagg

[chief 1]

yeah them bluebackers would be close to it,it's a nice reel

[Tim_08]

Raef is right, I am the millionaire man! ;D seriously though, I have spent ages researching these fine reels in all their forms.

For a start, the main reason reels like the Blue Backer and the Black Sheep came about is because the japanese gov't has declared the bass over there a noxious pest which must be eradicated, thereby killing the market for related fishing gear, which happens to be the largest sector! So companies like Daiwa have scrambled to turn their freshwater bass reels into more 'saltwater'capable reels. Which in many cases is simply anodising them a different colour and whacking in a few corrosion resistant bearings.

Blue backer has same frame, gear housing and drag as CVZ. same number of discs (7) etc and same rated pressure (5kg) this is accurate as I have tested a number of these reels and they all read around that number, with the exception of some that came from the factory with oil contaminated washers, giving readings of only 3kg or so. Easy mod for either Blue Backer or CVZ is an Erskines carbontex drag kit. When initially installed they test anywhere from 5-7kg, but with a few good fish to wear them in that increases to 9kg+. Both the Blue Backer and Black Sheep were designed as light inshore jigging reels, not really optimised for casting lures, whereas the CVZ is daiwas pinnacle round casting reel. As such the blue backer comes with a more basic centrifugal type cast control and a constantly engaged level wind, as casting performance is not high on the priority list. That's not to say a Blue Backer or Black Sheep won't cast lures, it's just that they won't do it as well as a CVZ can...

Interestingly the CVZ and CVX reels have been discontinued in the AUS/USA markets, replaced by the Luna, which is a mixture of both reels. But in japan, there is no such thing as the Luna, and the CVZ remains the top line round casting reel from Daiwa, with the exception of limited editions based on them such as the I'ze light or Ringa.

After all this research, for my heavy impoundment outfit I settled on a japan-spec CVZ-205 sourced by Raef and it has not let me down, although I haven't used mine anywhere near as much or caught so many enormous fish as Trevor (Awoonga) who also has the same reel.

Bottom line is, if you want the best round reel from Daiwa for casting purposes, go a CVZ, as Trev pointed out, Raef has been instrumental in sourcing these reels if you want a japanese spec model.

Sorry to ramble, but I hope this info has been helpful


blue backers, cvz, black sheep, i have all of those reels and they all have been through their paces, that is, wild fish in salt environments. We all should know that saltwater barra are much more vigorous than their freshwater cousins in lakes. Put the heat on a freshwater barra, and the show is over, put the heat on a salty and the show is just begining! Saltwater is the best testing grounds.
the cvz cops 50 lb braid , 6 to 8 kg of drag, and nasty thumbs whilst attached to an evil rod. the black sheep of mine, ( i have 2, they can generate 12 kg of drag and i/we ( my mates also) fish 80 lb braid and big lures for big fish in evil tide run, and horrid rock bars on 15kg blanks cut down to suit. It's pull 'em up tide and into deep water, or they go over the shallow bar downtide, and into deepwater and its goodnight irene!! Muscle up, push your tackle, and your a winner. Be even a bit whoosy, and you catch nothing!! My mate has had a cvz for a couple of years, and it has caught evil fish of varying species from 20 to 30 kg with heavy drag in slug fest reef luring situations. tunas, gt's sharks, 30 kg spanish, bla bla bla etc, plus all the fingermarks , bazzas, and the big snag hogging cod that live in gladstone harbour. i recently bought another cvz 300 A after observing the punishment that has been inflicted on the mate's reel. Top reel when you buy the upgraded handle such as the sheep's and the b backer's custom handles. It seems more comfortable and you seem more in control. It's just more suited to our fingers.
The blue backer's cast well and truely long enough distances, but do lack a decent heavy drag system. They have enough drag to land fish in a lake, but often i wish they had a more capable drag system. Upgrade is the go if u r looking for extra drag. 50 lb braid on these also, and your thumbs are required for that extra required stopping power.
All these 3 daiwa models are brilliant. I can't fault them.
The black sheep is the quietest of the 3, the blue backer seems the roughest. (this may vary between individual reels.) The black sheep casts fine, no problems with general lure casting. sensational drag system.
The best brand i have ever owned in 18yrs of baitcaster use, full stop!
johnny M

* fit, defined saltwater barra like this one certainly know how the perform when the 'hurt' is applied! An 18 kg salty, "as above" would laugh at an 'offer' from a 30 kg impoundment barra. Lake barra are strong, yet they lack any stamina. Salt fish in tidal run are as fit as a fiddle, and equally as commanding in "no give run for cover fishing situations"! Never say die seems to be their motto!

These two posts best summ up daiwa's round style bc's strengths and weakness's for me and as far as I've found so far there is no "successor" to the sheep as yet.:P
Tim

[BR65]

Hey Brian ...... As a matter of interest , What would you replace it with ????

Chris

Dont know mate, my jdm cvz-205 is veeery sweet, would love another, even the cvz-203A, tuned up a bit, is a great reel, hasnt let me down yet.
For less dollars, nothing wrong with the luna 203 with a drag kit, for normal, dont flog ya gear to death type fishing, mates got one and he wraps them, I just sold him a new one I had sitting in the cupboard for his second outfit.
I havent used the sheep at all yet, still sitting in its box, think that might change next summer.
Am waiting, still, for the drag kit for the zillion, want to give that a run over the Anzac day week end, totally differant style of reel I know, but I find after a couple of days full on casting with the barrels, the low profiles sit a lot more easy in the hand.

[NAGG]

Dont know mate, my jdm cvz-205 is veeery sweet, would love another, even the cvz-203A, tuned up a bit, is a great reel, hasnt let me down yet.
For less dollars, nothing wrong with the luna 203 with a drag kit, for normal, dont flog ya gear to death type fishing, mates got one and he wraps them, I just sold him a new one I had sitting in the cupboard for his second outfit.
I havent used the sheep at all yet, still sitting in its box, think that might change next summer.
Am waiting, still, for the drag kit for the zillion, want to give that a run over the Anzac day week end, totally differant style of reel I know, but I find after a couple of days full on casting with the barrels, the low profiles sit a lot more easy in the hand.

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....:P

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

[Tim_08]

Hey Brian ...... As a matter of interest , What would you replace it with ????

Chris


What are you thinking to fill your barrel barra baitcast void Nagg? calcutta te/conquest? Luna? cvz?

Tim

[BR65]

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....:P

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

Most of my stuff is down and dirty in the sticks mate, 10 to 15 meter cast, and let the fun begin, so line capacity hasnt been an issue yet, cept for the one time I was buried in a snag by a good fish and tried to free spool swim it out while I traced it with the kota, ping is the sound your mono backing makes when all your 50lb braid is gone.
Im not comfertable with double handed casting, must be my up-bringing as an alvey user lol, so I prefer the shorter rods, even my loomis cbr756 at 6'3" feels a little to long for timber work, but then again Ive never really fished Awoonga weed beds or points. Ive got a nice little 6'6" spin stick and Caldia Kix 3000 loaded with 20lb braid for that type of fishin, when the day comes.
Been waiting 3 weeks now for the washers mate, called in on Tuesday to see what was happening and was told they were still waitig for Erskines to send them down:-[
As for un-used kit, strangely, since I found this barra gig, I seem to have become a bit of a tackle slut::) , Im currently trying to cull the number of baitcasters I own to a realistic level
cheers
brian

[NAGG]

Most of my stuff is down and dirty in the sticks mate, 10 to 15 meter cast, and let the fun begin, so line capacity hasnt been an issue yet, cept for the one time I was buried in a snag by a good fish and tried to free spool swim it out while I traced it with the kota, ping is the sound your mono backing makes when all your 50lb braid is gone.
Im not comfertable with double handed casting, must be my up-bringing as an alvey user lol, so I prefer the shorter rods, even my loomis cbr756 at 6'3" feels a little to long for timber work, but then again Ive never really fished Awoonga weed beds or points. Ive got a nice little 6'6" spin stick and Caldia Kix 3000 loaded with 20lb braid for that type of fishin, when the day comes.
Been waiting 3 weeks now for the washers mate, called in on Tuesday to see what was happening and was told they were still waitig for Erskines to send them down:-[
As for un-used kit, strangely, since I found this barra gig, I seem to have become a bit of a tackle slut::) , Im currently trying to cull the number of baitcasters I own to a realistic level
cheers
brian

I too was a single handed caster ( I only learnt double handed a few weeks ago ...... you should have seen the birds nests when I started trying::) ) ...... Its actually quite good . My timber work is done with a 6'2" Miller (single handed).
gotto say though ...... longer casts mean less spooked fish ... even in the timber , though as I found out at Monduran ........ It makes for an interesting fight;D
Yep .... i'm a tackle stut ( but I'm still buying .... not culling).
Well I hope you get those washers soon ... & get to give em a big work out!
Cheers

Chris

[mikooh]

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....:P

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

Hi NAGG,

After reading your post about drum vs low profile reels, I pulled the spool out of both my zillion and my luna 253 for a side by side comparison. Without resorting to the calipers i would say that there is around 4mm difference in diameter and 10mm in width, both in favour of the luna. This brought me to the assumption that most of the distance advantage of the drum style reel would come from the extra width of the spool? and if this was the case then some drum style reels such as the calcutta 200 or Daiwa CVZ 100 would offer no real advantage due to thier narrower spools. interesting.

I can see a backyard casting test coming up tomorrow...

Mick

[wheezer]

to be honest from a casting reel perspective i don't think much of the 'sheep...a CVZ 253 would make a better proposition...don't forget it like all other variants is originally based on the CVZ's to start with! has the same amount of drag washers so a simple carbontex upgrade would make it more than capable, and the sheep is like the blue backer in that it isn't designed foremost as a casting reel and as such has the less effective centrifugal cast control...i'm looking to put together an XOS barra/PNG black bass outfit and the reel will almost certainly be a JDM CVZ253

[NAGG]

What are you thinking to fill your barrel barra baitcast void Nagg? calcutta te/conquest? Luna? cvz?

Tim

Good question Tim ......... From what I can see the CV-Z is now out of production:-/ ..... Though you can still get some out of Japan
Luna .... probably not
Even though I'm a Daiwa man ..... I will look at the Conquest DC ( JDM rather than domestic) ..... Trevor (Awoonga) raved about his (Calcutta DC)
Sheep or Bluebacker ? ... both possible ( & I can still get a sheep) .

So ... as you can see , I have no idea ....... but whatever it is ,,,,, I WANT ONE::) :P ;D
Seriously .... I would say a CV-Z ( tricked) ... as my first option , then a sheep or Conquest DC

Chris

[Tim_08]

Wheezer Japan Tackle states that the 253 only has 4kg drag while all the other models have 5kg, is this due to physical size or number of the drag washers or type of drag? Like say Zillion vs. Hrf? And if so would that limit the max to lower than that of all the others drag even with the erskine drag upgrade?


Mikooh I would imagine that both spool diameter and width would play a role in cast distance. The wider the spool is the more line can come off without reducing the overall diameter And the larger the diameter the easier the spool will be to turn for the given force (think rear bike gears).

Nagg, I'm a daiwa man too but I do like the look of those conquests. I'm yet to play with one of the dc controlled reels but from all reports they are sensational. Hope it wouldn't effect the sense of achievement you get from being able to cast a baitcaster well though :P (I'd almost feel like I was cheating;) )


Tim

[NAGG]

Hi NAGG,

After reading your post about drum vs low profile reels, I pulled the spool out of both my zillion and my luna 253 for a side by side comparison. Without resorting to the calipers i would say that there is around 4mm difference in diameter and 10mm in width, both in favour of the luna. This brought me to the assumption that most of the distance advantage of the drum style reel would come from the extra width of the spool? and if this was the case then some drum style reels such as the calcutta 200 or Daiwa CVZ 100 would offer no real advantage due to thier narrower spools. interesting.

I can see a backyard casting test coming up tomorrow...

Mick
.
Mick you're spot on ........ & its why I'll look for a 250 size reel. I have a Calcutta 400 & its just too wide & stuffs up the balance .
What I did pick up ...... that even 2mm less line on the spool of the Zillion was noticable ( I had one full & the other had around 15M less) ......... The full line load cast better...... when used on the same rod!

Nagg

[NAGG]

Nagg, I'm a daiwa man too but I do like the look of those conquests. I'm yet to play with one of the dc controlled reels but from all reports they are sensational. Hope it wouldn't effect the sense of achievement you get from being able to cast a baitcaster well though :P (I'd almost feel like I was cheating;) )


Tim

Tim .... dont think the DC stops the old nesto ...... It dont! ( saw it first hand)
So dont think you are cheating ( just think as it as an improvement on the magnetic cast control theme) ...... Anyhow , you can turn it down

Chris

[mikooh]

.
Mick you're spot on ........ & its why I'll look for a 250 size reel. I have a Calcutta 400 & its just too wide & stuffs up the balance .
What I did pick up ...... that even 2mm less line on the spool of the Zillion was noticable ( I had one full & the other had around 15M less) ......... The full line load cast better...... when used on the same rod!

Nagg

And to think that I was just starting to love my growing collection of multiple bearing ultralite super tuned low profiles. Its taken years to wean me off my calcuttas and millionaires... then you throw a spanner in the works..

For Sale:

1x zillion CC, 1x steez 103, 1x core mg, 1x 50mg. PM for details.;)

Just kidding!

I will be testing your theory though.

Mick

[Tim_08]

Ha ha, he had the same effect on me. One Hrf started me off, then got my pe special zillion was then thinking Zillion HLC never even entertained the idea of a round type reel and then Nagg came along and said barrel type for pointcaster. So then I had to buy a sheep;D

[NAGG]

And to think that I was just starting to love my growing collection of multiple bearing ultralite super tuned low profiles. Its taken years to wean me off my calcuttas and millionaires... then you throw a spanner in the works..

For Sale:

1x zillion CC, 1x steez 103, 1x core mg, 1x 50mg. PM for details.;)

Just kidding!

I will be testing your theory though.

Mick

Ahhh Mick ...... I too convinced my self that lightweight baitcasters were the go over the past year ( 2 Zillions , 1 steez & 1 Alphas) ..... which are fine & dandy.
It was only when we found ourselves anchored due to a malfunctioning leccy & casting with the wind to various points & bays ..... That I realised the advantage of the big cast (50M +) to the shallows! ...... STEALTH! ...... & many more taps , bites , hookups & fish landed!
I'm convinced8-)
Nagg
PS .... I havn't bought a drum bc for 8 years ........ so I need to make up for it;)

[NAGG]

Ha ha, he had the same effect on me. One Hrf started me off, then got my pe special zillion was then thinking Zillion HLC never even entertained the idea of a round type reel and then Nagg came along and said barrel type for pointcaster. So then I had to buy a sheep;D

See how useful Ausfish can be;)

[Tim_08]

Ha ha yeah helpful and exspensive:P

[NAGG]

Ha ha yeah helpful and exspensive:P

Yeh , but you could have wasted all that money buying reels that were not fit for purpose:P

[Tim_08]

Yeh , but you could have wasted all that money buying reels that were not fit for purpose:P

Yes how true. I think I'll put that one in the bank, good line to use on the missus8-)

[banshee]

to be honest from a casting reel perspective i don't think much of the 'sheep...a CVZ 253 would make a better proposition...don't forget it like all other variants is originally based on the CVZ's to start with! has the same amount of drag washers so a simple carbontex upgrade would make it more than capable, and the sheep is like the blue backer in that it isn't designed foremost as a casting reel and as such has the less effective centrifugal cast control...i'm looking to put together an XOS barra/PNG black bass outfit and the reel will almost certainly be a JDM CVZ253


Was starting to think I was the odd man out but have to agree,I don't rate my Black Sheep at all when it comes to casting.

[NAGG]

Was starting to think I was the odd man out but have to agree,I don't rate my Black Sheep at all when it comes to casting.

I think the reputation has been built on the robustness , drag ( out of the box) capacity to handle very heavy braid
Anyone that I know or have spoken to that has one ...... bought it for close quarter hand to hand combat barra & black bass fishing in the sticks ........ Having said that .... The couple that I have used cast at least every bit as well as my Calcutta 400 :)

Nagg

[MuppetMan]

All you Daiwa people how does the Bayard rate/go? I just grabbed one because for the money it looked like a pretty good prospect. Taking it offshore (NSW) tomorrow for a bottom bash which will be its first run.

[wheezer]

Wheezer Japan Tackle states that the 253 only has 4kg drag while all the other models have 5kg, is this due to physical size or number of the drag washers or type of drag? Like say Zillion vs. Hrf? And if so would that limit the max to lower than that of all the others drag even with the erskine drag upgrade?


Mikooh I would imagine that both spool diameter and width would play a role in cast distance. The wider the spool is the more line can come off without reducing the overall diameter And the larger the diameter the easier the spool will be to turn for the given force (think rear bike gears).

Nagg, I'm a daiwa man too but I do like the look of those conquests. I'm yet to play with one of the dc controlled reels but from all reports they are sensational. Hope it wouldn't effect the sense of achievement you get from being able to cast a baitcaster well though :P (I'd almost feel like I was cheating;) )


Tim

that's due to the fibre washers used...they still have the same washer count. for example the stock CVZ 103 also has a stock 4kg drag, whereas the Bay Casting 103 is rated 6kg outta the box. i tested mine after a few trips to bed it in, and it repeatedly pulled upwards of 11kg!! a tear down revealed the only difference was the type of fibre washers used

1 interesting note about the JDM CVZ253 is that it comes with a 6.3-1 ratio compared to the 5.1 used in the local version. IMO this makes it more suited to point casting as it allows quicker retrieves after long casts once your lure has passed through the strike zone and is still fine for rolling plastics etc. in fact i found the 6.3-1 ratio on my Steez more comfortable than the slower ratio of my millionaire for plastics work...that said if that is not preferred the gears from a blue backer or 'sheep could be retrofitted for slower ratio

regarding casting performance vs. spool size, most casting reels have a narrow spool dia. and a disengaging level wind where possible, as there is less friction when the level wind is disengaged and having a narrow spool minimises line angles during the cast...unless of course high line cap is required once you can't go any larger on spool dia. then you have no choice to go wider

a larger dia. spool while requiring more startup force has more inertia and lower spool RPM, making them more suited to long range casts (Zillion has 2mm dia. larger spool than steez/TDZ and its magforce braking profile is tuned towards long casting) whereas a small dia. spool requires less startup force, has less inertia but higher spool RPM making them better for lighter lures/short range accuracy/low velocity pitching type casts (on that extreme the Pixy/presso has a very shallow and small dia. spool)

[wheezer]

also IMO the new generation of higher capacity LP's like the zillion (HLC in my case and i also have the Steez 100H) are so much nicer to use than larger size round reels. the more compact palming profile and much lighter weight makes it much easier during extended casting sessions (which they always are!)

my steez 100H on my custom point casting rod sends lures out of sight, yet still has good line capacity with PE4 and weighs less than a Pixy!! next on my purchase list is a TDZ-BBS which has an even higher spool cap. than a zillion and has stronger gears as well...

[NAGG]

also IMO the new generation of higher capacity LP's like the zillion (HLC in my case and i also have the Steez 100H) are so much nicer to use than larger size round reels. the more compact palming profile and much lighter weight makes it much easier during extended casting sessions (which they always are!)

my steez 100H on my custom point casting rod sends lures out of sight, yet still has good line capacity with PE4 and weighs less than a Pixy!! next on my purchase list is a TDZ-BBS which has an even higher spool cap. than a zillion and has stronger gears as well...

Thats the Big Bait Special isn't it ??? ...... looks kinda , weird:-/
Love the low profiles too ..... :)

Nagg

[wheezer]

yes, the big bait special...i think it looks awesome with its black finish with gold and silver highlights...i will most likely pair it up to some kind of heavy point casting rod, at least 7' long to complement my existing 6-15kg XH and 5-8kg MH open water rods...i want to be able to throw large soft and hard swimbaits to target XOS barra!!

[BR65]

Hey Andrew, received my corkies for the new handles today, got em from Basspro
cheers
brian

[wheezer]

good stuff Brian...be careful now sounds like you are getting well and truly addicted to the bling!!

[NAGG]

yes, the big bait special...i think it looks awesome with its black finish with gold and silver highlights...i will most likely pair it up to some kind of heavy point casting rod, at least 7' long to complement my existing 6-15kg XH and 5-8kg MH open water rods...i want to be able to throw large soft and hard swimbaits to target XOS barra!!

The Loomis BCR855 GLX (7'1" ..17-25lb) ..... Lovely casting 110-130mm Slicks

Nagg

[Fafnir]

All you Daiwa people how does the Bayard rate/go? I just grabbed one because for the money it looked like a pretty good prospect. Taking it offshore (NSW) tomorrow for a bottom bash which will be its first run.


Not many responses MuppetMan, but that's most likely because not many people would have any first hand experience with them. I have seen and handle one, but never used one so I can't really comment. My gut feeling is they would not handle really harsh treatment over a period of time, but a drag upgrade and they would still be a servicable reel. But like I said, I'm only guessing. I have considered buying one myself though, specifically for flipping, as they are the only reel sold in Aus that I know of that has a flipping switch. Will be interested to hear from you about how it goes.

[NAGG]

1 interesting note about the JDM CVZ253 is that it comes with a 6.3-1 ratio compared to the 5.1 used in the local version. IMO this makes it more suited to point casting as it allows quicker retrieves after long casts once your lure has passed through the strike zone and is still fine for rolling plastics etc. in fact i found the 6.3-1 ratio on my Steez more comfortable than the slower ratio of my millionaire for plastics work...that said if that is not preferred the gears from a blue backer or 'sheep could be retrofitted for slower ratio


Interesting comment ..... specially after our recent Awoonga experiences.
During our point sessions ...... several fish were hooked & landed during the last third of a retrieve ( last 15-20M) ....... Because we fished our slicks all the way back to the boat:) .... including my biggest (96cm) ... In fact I can recall at least 2 fish that were taken during a pause halfway between our target area & the boat. We actually felt that fish were chasing the slicks out of the strike zone & having a second & even third go at the SP ( double & triple taps were felt)

anyhow I just thought it was worth sharing8-) ..... I know in the salt .. we would retrieve quickly once we were 5M away from the structure that we targeted.

Nagg

[wheezer]

Hi NAGG,
sorry, my intention was to make this comment not as a blanket statement, but merely to illustrate one of the scenarios when fishing...on my last trip to awoonga late last year we too experienced a number of hits/hookups close to the boat while rolling the plastics all the way in, same as you describe with repeated hits until the fish hooked up...it probably came across poorly but i was trying to illustrate that the faster retrieve is more flexible and user friendly in this application. it's easier to slow your cadence down on a faster retrieve reel than to wind like hell on a slower retrieve reel. Also easier to 'burn' the plastic across sections to trigger an explosive reaction bite. i used to be against faster retrieve reels for barra fishing but as i have gained more experience i have learned that for me they are an imiportant part of my kit

[wheezer]

The Loomis BCR855 GLX (7'1" ..17-25lb) ..... Lovely casting 110-130mm Slicks

Nagg

sorry i'm not a fan of Loomis. I build customs (you would have some of the sticks Trev was using that i've built for him) i already have an XH point casting stick rated up to 30lb that has a nice light tip which makes it easier for fish to inhale a plastic on a constant roll retrieve. pretty much the only rod i use at awoonga. Have already tried some big ass swimbaits on it but the rod gets overloaded when casting so i'm looking to build a specialty swimbait stick up to complement it...not something i'll use all the time but will give it a good go here at tinaroo. got some of the river2sea Kongs and will try some 190mm slick rigs too..try to entice some horses!!

[NAGG]

Hi NAGG,
sorry, my intention was to make this comment not as a blanket statement, but merely to illustrate one of the scenarios when fishing...on my last trip to awoonga late last year we too experienced a number of hits/hookups close to the boat while rolling the plastics all the way in, same as you describe with repeated hits until the fish hooked up...it probably came across poorly but i was trying to illustrate that the faster retrieve is more flexible and user friendly in this application. it's easier to slow your cadence down on a faster retrieve reel than to wind like hell on a slower retrieve reel. Also easier to 'burn' the plastic across sections to trigger an explosive reaction bite. i used to be against faster retrieve reels for barra fishing but as i have gained more experience i have learned that for me they are an imiportant part of my kit

Not a drama ..... I was only pointing out a recent scenario .... & as mentioned I'm used to burning lures in once they were passed what I thought was the strike zone!
That's why I like this barra stuff ..... plenty to learn8-)

Cheers

Nagg

PS Yeh I did notice Trevs custom job ( Hastings blank ??? .. I think)

[wheezer]

always learning, i guess thats why i'm always keen to go fishing...regardless of whether it was a good or bad trip i'm always analysing the trip and planning the next one.....

yes all built on Hastings blanks, he's got some of the 6' models they also do a great range of longer sticks for open water work...i've been trying to extol the virtues of using a longer rod in awoonga to him for a while! BTW if anyone is looking i am selling my own custom 6'6" XH stick rated 12-30lb nice and light in the tip but alot of grunt for putting on the brakes when required...built with all the bling like custom finished reel seat, titanium guides and adjustable counterbalanced butt cap system PM if interested i'll be posting it in FS as soon as i get a chance

[MuppetMan]

All you Daiwa people how does the Bayard rate/go? I just grabbed one because for the money it looked like a pretty good prospect. Taking it offshore (NSW) tomorrow for a bottom bash which will be its first run.


Not many responses MuppetMan, but that's most likely because not many people would have any first hand experience with them. I have seen and handle one, but never used one so I can't really comment. My gut feeling is they would not handle really harsh treatment over a period of time, but a drag upgrade and they would still be a servicable reel. But like I said, I'm only guessing. I have considered buying one myself though, specifically for flipping, as they are the only reel sold in Aus that I know of that has a flipping switch. Will be interested to hear from you about how it goes.

Well fishing in 60m of water I landed a nice 2-3kg snapper, a double of 40cm flathead, a handful of big leatherjackets. The snapper was really the only one of the above that put up a fight and the reel did just fine. Fishing in water that deep a bigger drag would be nice but I had no problems. Spooled with 30lb braid and with 5m of 30lb mono leader.
All in all a great reel for the price.
BTW what the hell does the flipping switch do??? :dunce:

[Fafnir]

BTW what the hell does the flipping switch do???

Hi MuppetMan good to hear you're happy with it. A $20 odd dollar drag upgrade could make it a more than servicable reel.

Flipping is a specific casting technique that is popular in the US among Bass anglers. The technique involves stripping some line off and holding it in your non-casting hand out to the side of the rod, but still leaving enough line hanging down so that the lure is about 1/2 a rod length away from the tip of the rod.

The rod tip is then lowered, before being flicked upwards towards the target. The weight of the lure as it swings forward then loads the rod tip up, you then release the line you are holding and take your thumb off the reels spool as the rod tip unloads. As you can imagine it takes some practice to get the timing right. The lure then lobs towards the target, making a very gentle splash as it enters the water.

Commonly this technique is used when fishing in heavy cover such as grass and/or weedbeds. The fish often strike the moment after the lure hits the water giving the angler little time to turn the handle and re-engage the reels gears. This is where the flipping switch comes in. When you engage the flipping switch the reel goes into free spool when you hold the thumb bar down, but the gears are immediately engaged the moment you take your thumb off the thumb bar. So you cast, lift your thumb when the lure hits the water and the gears are engaged ready to fight the fish. Much faster than needing to turn the reel handle, or physically flick up the thumb bar.

Sorry long answer, but I hope this helps.

[Awoonga]

l just use my Pixy....when l get bored.....Go fishee go...Then theres the Sheep...DC 200 CVZ...X2.....plus two TDZs and l just bought a 100 DC magic...Now with the cork knobs and carbon handles....Here fisheee

[NAGG]

l just use my Pixy....when l get bored.....Go fishee go...Then theres the Sheep...DC 200 CVZ...X2.....plus two TDZs and l just bought a 100 DC magic...Now with the cork knobs and carbon handles....Here fisheee

Ahhh you love that 100DC:P ...... By the way ... How do you rate the CV-Z ?

Nagg

[Awoonga]

Ahhh you love that 100DC:P ...... By the way ... How do you rate the CV-Z ?

Nagg Chris l am or is that was...???? a Daiwa fan...lovem... but the DC is just so good....l have two CVZs both Jap spec with the drag kit they perform really well... My mummy said....No more reels......But the 2008 DC low profile job looks so good......

[reggy]

:o Don`t worry all you Daiwa fans. After the sales of the dc (king of bass reels) in US, Daiwa will have a DC reel before long. In my humble opinion.

[NAGG]

Chris l am or is that was...???? a Daiwa fan...lovem... but the DC is just so good....l have two CVZs both Jap spec with the drag kit they perform really well... My mummy said....No more reels......But the 2008 DC low profile job looks so good......

Are you referring to the JDM Metanium DC? .... yep it looks good
What mummy don't know ... don't hurt;)

[NAGG]

:o Don`t worry all you Daiwa fans. After the sales of the dc (king of bass reels) in US, Daiwa will have a DC reel before long. In my humble opinion.

Yeh .... Thats only because the Yanks are too lazy to put their thumb on the spool
;D

[reggy]

Yeh .... Thats only because the Yanks are too lazy to put their thumb on the spool
;D
No mate, it`s because it casts the best. Whether it be centrifugal brakes, magnetic brakes or digital brakes, the reel that casts the best (or easiest, same thing) will sell the most.
Wouldn`t have one myself. I like the "keep it simple " theory.

[Rockfish]

Daiwa are yet to reproduce a reel that is a tough and well designed with the awesome stopping power of the Blacksheep. The Blue backer was intended to be used for light inshore jigging just as the sheep, however, most people will tell you it just doesn't make the stopping power of the Sheep. Another option is to upgrade a Blue backer or CVZ (if you can find one-better for casting) or Luna 203/205 or 253 size reels with a Jack Erskine Carbontex drag maybe even lapped and ground metals washers. This should result in 10-12kg of drag once a few fish have played tugg-o-war. I personally have got the CVZ 203 with upgraded drag and have fished 30 to 50lb braid in salt and dams for big barra without fail.

Oh yeah, i live in Rockhampton and know of a tackle store in town you can get a Blacksheep for $499.00 atm, only have a few left.

I'll PM you details if you want further info