Guide foot cracking

[dogsbody]

Gday folks

Ok so I'm gonna be building a new rod so i want to learn from past mistakes.

On the first rod i built awhile ago foot cracking has appeared (pic1) and i have no idea why,until now.

I signed up at rodbuilding.org and blow me down there was a post about foot cracking. He reminded people to grind the foot properly. So i asked how he does it. He posted a pic (pic2) of how it should be done and whoa a pic speaks volumes. I don't grind my feet that much (pic3).

How much do you grind your feet?

Have you ever had problems with cracking?

Do you think it's something other than the lack of grinding?


Dave.

[nigelr]

As an amatuer builder, hairline guide cracks really don't worry me that much, worse things happen, the guides still function without a problem for ages on the surf rods I generally build, when they annoy me sufficiently or fail I just re-do the guide from scratch.
I just enjoy myself and try to do the best I can with the very limited knowledge and skill I have, and am generally very satisfied with the result compared to a 'shop' rod.
To me THIS is the beauty of not being a pro builder, if I were building for others, cracked epoxy at the guide foot would be a REAL worry!
I must say I have never quite seen a result like your first pic, looks like some more grinding may have been required, compared to that shown in the 3rd pic. The amount of grinding done on the guide foot in the second pic is very interesting, the guys who post on that site are pretty expert, to say the least. Think I'll take that lesson on board...............
It will be interesting to see other replies to your thread.
Cheers.

[Stuart]

The guy is such an expert he has ground up the side of the guide leg, how does he propose to cover that with thread. He has ground the feet down to a very good level but you dont want to grind that far so it in facts marks the guide legs.

Stu

[SeasonsRods]

Sure grinding plays a part in causing cracking, well in my opinion it does any way but don't over do it. though dogsbody from what i see in the picture i would recommend that you grind more than what you do now. You have to grind it so it has a nice ramp up the guide feet so to reduce the sudden change in binding diameter but you don't have to go as far as grinding the whole foot.

Different finishes also has an effect on cracking and so far i have tried 3 different finishes and found that flexcoat works best for me. And make sure you mix your finishes right, too much hardener can also cause it to crack easier and too little can mean a tacky finish.

[dogsbody]

Thanks for the comments fellas. So my grinding is my main problem as there would be to much difference in the angle at the toe.

I used Erskine resin. Is there a better brand or are they much of a muchness?
I know there is hi viscosity and low viscosity resins out there. Not that that should have anything to do with my problem.


Dave.

[HOTRODS]

ive always been a big grinding fan...not only does it help prevent a lot of the smilies BUT its a hell of a lot easier to bind up the foot !

2 othr pont to raise re. smilies...
#1 - thread tension. if you bind too loose this will allow the foot to move / lift and 'bruise' the resin...
# 2 - Filler / CP. i stear clear of filler for the majority of rods nowdays. this allows the resin to impregnante the thread and basically glue the guide to the blank.

[Noelm]

not too sure that grinding or not grinding makes all that much difference to the cracking (but it might) I just grind them to make binding easier, if guides are on a very fast taper rod, they will crack almost first time it is bent, not so quick on a spin rod, but it still happens after a while, I always thought it was the simple fact that the guide is so much stiffer than the Blank and as such tries to stay straight when the rod is bending under it, the very ends of the feet being the junction between the two!

[sid_fishes]

the way that it i was told to do it is simple realy, slowly sand the foot of the guide so that you have a very fine entry point when binding so its much easier to progress without having a lumpy bit. hard to explain easier to see what i mean .ian

[wheezer]

i would grind more than what you have been doing looking at your pic. i tend to grind about half the length of the foot in a nice smooth taper. also do yourself a favour and do not use erskines epoxy, you will almost always experience cracking...flexcoat among others in very good, also make sure pack the threads well before epoxying

[tunaticer]

I place a short piece of plastic ribbon over the entry of the foot after a light grind. this gives the point of the foot a tad of movement without letting the epoxy crack.

Sticky tape is too thin and simply breaks through, I use the ribbon the girls use for tying up presents with.

Jack.

[OzRods]

Sorry double post

[OzRods]

Hi Dave
I have heard of guide feet cracking because of the guide feet not being ground enough but IMHO cracking around the guide feet has more to do with thread tension then then how much you grind the guide foot and also what kind of finish you use.
I grind the guide foot around the same as the guide on the right hand side of pic 2 and I also use Flex Coat.
I do usually grind the feet a little more then what the guides with the preground feet have. Saying that no two 2 preground guides come ground the same and most are ground a lot on one side and not much on the other.
I would grind the guide in Pic 3 more then what you have I dont think it is enough and I have always ground my guides more then that so I dont know if that is why you are having trouble.
Lately I have heard of a lot of people using Erskine's having trouble with the guide feet cracking (I dont know if that has anything to do with it).
Why dont you try a grinding your feet a little more (I would anyway)and then try and wrap with a little more tension (if you think you are wrapping with enough tension) then try changing your finish and see if it helps?
I haven't really had much trouble with my guide feet cracking (not in the first couple of years use anyway) so it is hard to tell whats happening. The only thing you can do is to start changing around a few things and see if that helps.

[Stuart]

I have been building rods for 20 years and this issue has always been a thorn in my side. After all these years of trial and error I can almost say I have conquered the dreaded cracking. Cracking isn’t due to any one step, i.e. thread tension, coating, thread size, angle of ground guide foot. All of these factors play a roll in the problem of cracking. I have my methods and I’m sure some here do as well to eliminate the problem. However I wouldn’t start Appling more thread tension especially to a beginner / novice as you can run the risk of pushing the guide feet straight through the blank wall. Erskins is the worst coating in the world, Flex coat is ok, classic is ok but sets up to hard in my opinion, LS supreme is to thin and doesn’t set up hard enough.

I have my own made but for the average guy I would use Flex coat light. Cracking is one of those things we are all going to have to live with, at least for the time being.

Stu

[OzRods]

I oftern get told by other builders "Gee you wrap with a lot of tension" but guess what I dont have trouble with guide feet cracking and I have never put a guide foot through a blank but then again I dont build much ultra light stuff.
My guide feet do crack but its only after years of heavy use and abuse.
Stuart is probably right that is a combination of thread tension, guide foot preparation, finish ect.
If you are having these problems with your guide feet cracking and you want to fix it is obviously time to change some things that you do and see if that helps.
If you are complaining about your guide feet cracking after years of heavy use I would say live with it.

[dogsbody]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I did have a thought about thread tension whether or not it was to little.

I will be giving the grind a good crack, so to speak to allow a little bit of give in the toe. A change to flexcote and pay attention to tension.

Dave.

[roz]

In my humble opinion the less you do to the feet of a guide, to a achieve the desired outcome the better.
I've had guides crack for no aparent reason, even after a minimum amount of interference. about 12 months back I lost a guide on it's first outing...as far as I was concerned it was a fault or defect in the metal or manufacture.

So I'm of the opinion that a certain percentage will break anyway, regardless.

I'm also of the opinion that a firmly bound guide will endure less stress due to less movement regardless of how small that may be.

As for resin, I've used Erskines for years, I have it on rods that were built well over ten years ago and it's still looking OK. BUT... you get what you pay for, having used flex coat, I would find it hard to change back.

It's a much user friendly product and gives very nice clear finish. I invest a lot of time and effort in my cross wraps, so you can imagine I would want to show them off in their best light, and I get that with flex coat. There are a few other products out there that could well be better, but I've yet to try them.

good luck

roz.

[Willo]

In my humble opinion the less you do to the feet of a guide, to a achieve the desired outcome the better.
I've had guides crack for no aparent reason, even after a minimum amount of interference. about 12 months back I lost a guide on it's first outing...as far as I was concerned it was a fault or defect in the metal or manufacture.

So I'm of the opinion that a certain percentage will break anyway, regardless.

I'm also of the opinion that a firmly bound guide will endure less stress due to less movement regardless of how small that may be.

As for resin, I've used Erskines for years, I have it on rods that were built well over ten years ago and it's still looking OK. BUT... you get what you pay for, having used flex coat, I would find it hard to change back.

It's a much user friendly product and gives very nice clear finish. I invest a lot of time and effort in my cross wraps, so you can imagine I would want to show them off in their best light, and I get that with flex coat. There are a few other products out there that could well be better, but I've yet to try them.

good luck

roz.



Yeh Roz
I used Erskines, Flex Coat ,But now using Thread Master and getting excelent results
Cheers Willo

[R-U- Wet Yet]

I've just spent a couple of days grinding/sanding guide feet down..and now I am looking for a good woman to do it for me....bloody hell....size 16 was a breeze...size 12 ok...size 10..little bit fiddly...but gezzzz louise... size 8 were a pain in the..... fingers!!!... I atually found sandpaper to work the best... tried the dremel which was fantastic on the larger guides... but size 10 down I found sandpaper worked a treat...and the skin from the tips of my fingers just wiped off the guides with a hanky...

[dogsbody]

RU Those Dremels sure have many uses. How much do they set you back? I've got a small set of files that will come in handy but i to mainly use sandpaper.


Dave.

[R-U- Wet Yet]

I got mine from Bunnings last Xmas Dogs... I think I paid around $140.... there seems to be lots of models out now.... mine is just a standard 240 volt one... I think there is new lithium battery ones available now.... also bought a kit of attachements to go with it... it was around the $60 I think...they are a good bit of gear tho...I bought mine to use when servicing and upgrading my reels and it's the bee's knee's.