Is a VHF Radio licence really necessary

[Local_Guy]

as title says.... Is gaining a VHF radio licence really necessary.

I have a 4.6m centre console and i go out to the local reef (no more than 14nm). My boat is equiped with a VHF radio but i am as yet to get a licence to "legally" use it.

My question is.
Do i really need a licence.?
Why?
Who would know if i didn't and used it anyway.....

I am a responsible owner/operator so i'm not going to abuse the system in anyway.. if that makes sence.

But why..

thanks
jase

[Coontakinta]

Question #1 Legally......YES In reality ........NO You can use a VHF radio unlicensed in an EMERGENCY ONLY. at other times you would be at the mercy of the law.

Question #2 Because its natures way of keeping the knob jockeys off the airway. The authority in your state as well mine and others deem it to be neccessary. Seriously, though because its such a useful tool being proficent in its use is a good thing. You dont want to be using it and unknowingly be interferring with the communications of an S&R or some assistance to a stranded strickened vessel.

Question #3 Not sure about this one, but u owe it to yourself and your crew to be proficent in its use in my view. Here in SA it costs around $130.00 (a one off payment- no further fees) to get your proficiency. IMO its money well spent.

[groverwa]

Gday

You will find that the correct operating procedure - use of calling and subsequent chat channels - is very important. Police, Harbour pilots and emergency services can be placed in danger if incorrect use of VHF happens

It is well worth the money to do the course

Have a look at http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/handbook/amc.omc.mrohb.08.pdf for the handbook and

http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/handbook/Frequencies_01012004.pdf gives a table of frequencies that can be used - see below



VHF Chan mentioned first
16 Coast, Limited and ships Distress, Urgency, Safety & Routine

67 Coast, Limited and ships Supplementary to Ch 16


13 Ships Maritime Safety Information
6 Ship and aircraft On scene coordination during SAR
71 Limited and Fishing boats Routine communication
72 Fishing & Leasure boats Routine communication
73 Limited & Leasure boats Routine communication
77 All vessels Routine communication


Mike

[Local_Guy]

I also studied Marine Studies at school where we went right over this and as far as i'm concerned i'm profecient but without the licence.

In knowing the terms and how to use it,... i know that. I just don't have that piece of paper to say i do... I'm not going to use it unless i have to and i'd rather keep the $110 in my pocket.

[FNQCairns]

It poops me that we are regulate such a simple potential life saving device, causes more harm than good, total lack of common responsibilty.

In America they also have marine VHF but were competent enough to ensure it would always be a device that could save anyones life at any time, not a device that scares many away from owning or using.

I have one have had for many years and consider it no more or less useful when needed to be used as as a life saving device than 27meg (of coarse I am not talking about range or clarity, thought I had better add that:().

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

even though it is not really a License as such, it is required by Law to have the Certificate of Proficiency (Licence?) I think one of the main reasons is to make sure boofheads do not just chatter away about crap, on frequencies that are also used by Commercial Shipping and so on (unlike 27meg) so I guess for the piddly amount of $100 or so (one off) why not do the course and maybe learn something new as well as making yourself Legal, I did mine as a compulsary part of a Coxswains course.

[Coontakinta]

FNQ, u make a valid point about restricting its use and over regulation, but I gotta agree with Noelm here. Too much BS not to regulate this form of communication.

@ local-guy I too knew how to use the radio correctly......so I thought.....until I did the course. Things like the use of repeaters, using the 1kw option for low battery situations etc etc are all things that I had no idea about. And its these small things that could save your life.

Its things like relaying messages, the correct way, calling a Mayday or Pan Pan that many dont understand.

To be honest I'd like to see more use the 27mhz band than VHF. Then all the BS stays there, but the reality is that many new packages are being sold with VHF and the scary thing is there is no responsibilty on the seller to advise the purchaser of the need to be proficent.

[Taroona]

I was out on Sunday last on Moreton bay with my radio on Ch16 as always and there where a couple kids playing around on Ch16. Maybe if the responsible person on the boat had done a course and learnt about the importance of a listening watch on Ch 16 then this sort of thing wouldn't happen

[Local_Guy]

my boat when i bought it came with a 27mhz radio, but my father and the coast guard recommended the VHF as the 27mhz won't be monitored next year as closely as previous years.

Coontakinta i have no doubts that there are things i could refresh up on, but at this point in time when the weather doesn't warrent going out i can use that money to put towards a new sounder or fishing rod or tackle and get the licence later down the track.

It's not going to hurt me not using the radio for general chit chat as i don't really use it anyway. But i do know how to use it for emergency situations.

[Marlin_Mike]

annoying as it seems, the law says you have to have one


Mike

[mik01]

if nothing else, it teaches you to respect all emergency channels.
a couple of months back I listened in amazement as a mayday relay call was constantly interrupted by people wanting to log in...
Local Guy, you may be proficient and respectful of appropriate procedures, but unfortunately many aren't. precisely why it needs to be regulated...

[Hamish73]

Local Guy (and anyone else), without doing any reasearch, can you answer this question?

What hours or the day are you NOT permitted to use channel 16 in a NON emergency situation?

If you dont know the answer you are risking other peoples lives and shouldnt be on the air IMO.

I can drive a sema or b double (did a bit of yard work when I was 16) . Does that mean I should be able to drive one on the road?

This isnt an attack on anyone, just my 2 cents worth

[jtpython]

Question #1 Legally......YES In reality ........NO You can use a VHF radio unlicensed in an EMERGENCY ONLY. at other times you would be at the mercy of the law.

Question #2 Because its natures way of keeping the knob jockeys off the airway. The authority in your state as well mine and others deem it to be neccessary. Seriously, though because its such a useful tool being proficent in its use is a good thing. You dont want to be using it and unknowingly be interferring with the communications of an S&R or some assistance to a stranded strickened vessel.

Question #3 Not sure about this one, but u owe it to yourself and your crew to be proficent in its use in my view. Here in SA it costs around $130.00 (a one off payment- no further fees) to get your proficiency. IMO its money well spent.
Well i tell you what guys i'm responsible and use uhf and vhf for work and if someone comes up to me and try's to fine me for having a VHF without a ticket i will put my foot thru the system while they watch me and proceed to give them a mouthful. I have been on the water all my life and to say it will keep the larikens off it no way Wake to your selves.
I'm an adult lets get some diginity to everyone self
Everywhere we turn some one is telling us what to do.
Interest rates are up what do the expext everything is going up everywhere when is the little person going to get a break
MY OPINOIN
JT

[jtpython]

I have a gun license does that stop anyone shooting another person
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Too many do gooders telling us what to do
JT

[sid_fishes]

IMO,YES end of questions and answers. its in place for a reason, your life, your crews life, get over it do the test and pay the money. we all know that 27mg is not that strong so what happems off shore when the shit hits the fan, whoyou gonna call. just do it.

[jtpython]

:-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x

[PinHead]

Well i tell you what guys i'm responsible and use uhf and vhf for work and if someone comes up to me and try's to fine me for having a VHF without a ticket i will put my foot thru the system while they watch me and proceed to give them a mouthful. I have been on the water all my life and to say it will keep the larikens off it no way Wake to your selves.
I'm an adult lets get some diginity to everyone self
Everywhere we turn some one is telling us what to do.
Interest rates are up what do the expext everything is going up everywhere when is the little person going to get a break
MY OPINOIN
JT

the little person is only a little person because they want to be one.

If you should be towing your boat along the road and someone rams you and they have no license nor insurance nor any means of paying for the repairs..just remember that they are just sick and tired of being told what to do also..so you would obviously understand and not get annoyed.

[PinHead]

I have a gun license does that stop anyone shooting another person
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Too many do gooders telling us what to do
JT

why do you have a gun license..previous post you stated that you were sick of being told what to do.

You say you use VHF for work..i would presume that is land based..well the certificate that is being discussed is the MROVCP..the M stands for Marine..I doubt you would have many securitae calls on land.

For the sake of a couple of bucks surely it is easier to get it ...plus..it is a very informative course.

[Hamish73]

If you cant afford the safety gear (and relevant training/licencing), you cant afford to be on the water IMO

JT, do you have a boat licence? If so, why?

[jtpython]

the little person is only a little person because they want to be one.

If you should be towing your boat along the road and someone rams you and they have no license nor insurance nor any means of paying for the repairs..just remember that they are just sick and tired of being told what to do also..so you would obviously understand and not get annoyed.
Think your way off mate
If they don't have insurance well sue
But a license for a radio channel How does that compare to this
I have had this arguement before my father has had a certificate license since Adam was a boy now why all of a sudden it's an issue?
And i am a promenant Coast Gaurd Supporter
I cannot see the piont
Will they fine me for using UHF because it's more widly used the VHF where's the reasoning.
How many people have had a license to shoot AND KILL JOE BLOW DOWN THE ROAD HOW HAS THAT STOPPED ANYTHING?
I know right from wrong why punish me?
And i am serious if i am pulled up i will drive my foot into my radio to prove my piont so how are they going to distinguish wether or not it worked in the first place.
I call every trip when VMR or Coastguard are in Time preference and have relations that run inside the coastguard.
JT

[mik01]

JT - your argument is flawed mate.
are you serious - gun license and shooting people = vhf license and inappropriate transmissions?

the point of the license is to train people to use the tool correctly so that it can save lives. sure it doesn't stop any idiot misusing it, but the same can be said for cars, trucks, bikes, guns, forklifts, brain surgery etc etc - you have to have a license for all of these pursuits in life.

if we follow your reasoning, I can't afford the money to renew my vehicle license but, dammit, I am a good driver and have driven for years. I DESERVE to do what I like without proper accreditation...
when the cops pull me up, i'll start kicking and screaming and then they'll really know how I think the system stinks against the working man...

that'll show em

[PinHead]

why do you keep harping on about guns..what does that have to do wth marine certificates.
as for suing..did you not see that I said they had no means of paying for it so why sue?? How about you have someone aboard your boat..all goes pear shaped and they get injured or killed..and you have no MROVCP..I wonder who will be sued then.

[Nomad62]

And i am serious if i am pulled up i will drive my foot into my radio to prove my piont so how are they going to distinguish wether or not it worked in the first place.
JT


Wow....sounds like time for a little anger management.

If we all felt this way about Licenses, regulations and the law there would be anarchy!!!

Cheers Nomad

[mik01]

oh and in response again to the original question - if it is law that a license is required then you have a very clear answer.
it's irresponsible to argue about the merits of the license or whether you agree or not with it - its a legal requirement and therefore you must do it.

in NSW you need a fishing license, but do all people who have one fish legally? at the end of the day, there is very little policing of the vhf licensing therefore many like you will never be caught out.
you wouldn't be arguing this if police actually demanded to see proof when they stop you on the water - I'm sure many more would see the 'merits' of attaining a license if that began happening.

[jtpython]

some thing goes a miss
Hmmm if i haven't got a VHF how will that effect my insurance
I'm a memeber of ClubMarine i can't see anything in there about my insurance beening NUL and VIOD because i haven't got a VHF license

WHAt happened to free speech
Sorry for stating using a VHF on land and if you listen to some channels alot of people use UHF on the Ocean should we redicule them
This is Not anger management goes this is just silly revenue making
Tough don't like it i'll shut up
JT

[Local_Guy]

wow. haven't i shaken the bees nest.

Mik01 to add to what you said about police demanding it. i have been pulled up on many a fishing trip where the water police asked if we had a licence to drive a boat. Both the owner and myself have a licence, but left our wallet in the car... the cops said that was fine.

Ok.. think about this........ Travelling through Green Zones you have to have your fishing gear "technically speaking" unrigged... but who does.... So. if i'm on the water with my VHF aeriel not plugged in and sitting on the floor they can't technically get me for not having a VHF licence as it isn't connected.

[tigermullet]

Wow....sounds like time for a little anger management.

If we all felt this way about Licenses, regulations and the law there would be anarchy!!!

Cheers Nomad


Anger Management - I like that. Here is a way to manage anger and bring people together to advance their lives.



When you occasionally have a really bad day, and you just need to take it
>
>out on someone, don't take it out on someone you know, take it out on
>
>someone you don't know.
>
>
>
>I was sitting at my desk when I remembered a phone call I had forgotten to
>
>make. I found the number and dialed it. A man answered, saying, "Hello."
>
>I politely said, "This is Fred Hanifin. Could I please speak with Robin
>
>Carter?"
>
>Suddenly, the phone was slammed down on me. I couldn't believe that anyone
>
>could be so rude.
>
>I tracked down Robin's correct number and called her. I had transposed
>
>the last two digits of her phone number. After hanging up with her, I
>
>decided
>
>to call the 'wrong' number again. When the same guy answered the phone, I
>
>yelled, "You're an #######!" and
>
>hung up.
>
>
>
>I wrote his number down with the word '#######' next to it, and put it in
>
>my desk drawer. Every couple of weeks, when I was paying bills or had a
>
>really bad day, I'd call him up and yell, "You're an #######!" It always
>
>cheered me up.
>
>
>
>When Caller ID came to our area, I thought my therapeutic '#######' calling
>
>would have to stop. So, I called his number and said, "Hi, this is John
>
>Smith from the Telephone Company. I'm just calling to see if you're
>familiar
>with the Caller ID program?"
>
>
>
>He yelled, "NO!" and slammed the phone down.
>
>
>
>I quickly called him back and said, "That's because you're an #######!"
>
>
>
>One day I was at the store, getting ready to pull into a parking spot. Some
>
>guy in a black BMW cut me off and pulled into the spot I had patiently
>
>waited for. I hit the horn and yelled that I had been waiting for the spot.
>
>The idiot ignored me. I noticed a "For Sale" sign in his car window ...so,
>
>I wrote down his number. A couple of days later, right after calling the
>
>first #######,
>
>(I had his number on speed dial), I thought I had better call the BMW
>
>#######, too. I said, "Is this the man with the black BMW for sale?"
>
>
>
>"Yes, it is."
>
>
>
>"Can you tell me where I can see it?"
>
>
>
>"Yes, I live at 1802 West 34th Street. It's a yellow house, and the car's
>
>parked right out in front."
>
>
>
>"What's your name?" I asked. "My name is Don Hansen," he said. "When's a
>
>good time to catch you, Don?" "I'm home every evening after five." "Listen,
>
>Don, can I tell you something?" "Yes?" "Don, you're an #######." Then I
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>hung up, and added his number to my speed dial, too! .
>
>
>
>Now, when I had a problem, I had two #######s to call.
>
>
>
>But after several months of calling them, it wasn't as enjoyable as it used
>
>to be. So, I came up with an idea. I called ####### #1.
>
>
>
>"Hello."
>
>
>
>"You're an #######!" (But I didn't hang up.)
>
>
>
>"Are you still there?" he asked.
>
>
>
>"Yeah," I said.
>
>
>
>"Stop calling me," he screamed.
>
>
>
>"Make me," I said.
>
>
>
>"Who are you?" he asked.
>
>
>
>"My name is Don Hansen."
>
>
>
>"Yeah? Where do you live?"
>
>
>
>"#######, I live at 1802 West 34th Street, a yellow house, with my black
>
>Beamer parked in front."
>
>
>
>He said, "I'm coming over right now, Don. And you had better start saying
>
>your prayers."
>
>
>
>I said, "Yeah, like I'm really scared, #######."
>
>
>
>Then I called ####### #2.
>
>
>
>"Hello?" he said.
>
>
>
>"Hello, #######," I said.
>
>
>
>He yelled, "If I ever find out who you are?"
>
>
>
>"You'll what?" I said.
>
>
>
>"I'll kick your ass," he exclaimed.
>
>
>
>I answered, "Well, #######, here's your chance. I'm coming over right now."
>
>
>
>
>
>Then I hung up and immediately called the police, saying that I lived at
>
>1802 West 34th Street, and that I was on my way over there to kill my gay
>
>lover.
>
>
>
>Then I called Channel 13 News about the gang war going down on West 34th
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>Street.
>
>
>
>I quickly got into my car and headed over to 34th Street.
>
>
>
>There I saw two #######s beating the crap out of each other in front of six
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>squad cars, a police helicopter, and news crew.
>
>
>
>NOW, I feel better. Anger management "Bringing people together to advance
>
>their lives."

[jtpython]

Ok I See I'm Terribley Wrong And Will Apologise To All Who I Have Upset And Will Upset By Sticking To My Guns For This Subject.

I Know The Law Says To Have One But Come On
Sorry Another 3 Interest Rates Forcasted Am Sick Of Forking Money Out, Whats Next I'll Have To Sell My Boat That I Have Worked All My Life For .
Thanking You
John

[tigermullet]

Ok I See I'm Terribley Wrong And Will Apologise To All Who I Have Upset And Will Upset By Sticking To My Guns For This Subject.

I Know The Law Says To Have One But Come On
Sorry Another 3 Interest Rates Forcasted Am Sick Of Forking Money Out, Whats Next I'll Have To Sell My Boat That I Have Worked All My Life For .
Thanking You
John


Don't back off now! The only reason that I have not weighed in on this argument, in your support, is because I made a New Year resolution to be very nice to Fisheries, Water Police, Volunteer rescue organisations and other assorted authority figures.

If we follow the USA example you might not have to worry about interest rates increasing for too much longer - the yanks are on the way down again - big time. Whether it will be enough to head of a recession is any one's guess.

[jtpython]

HAHAHAHA Good one Mate . But my private messages are filling up lol
I probaley say alot more but me will be banned for sure
Good to see you seen the funny side mate
JT

[Nomad62]

Hey tigermullet.....Anger Management....its an oldie, but a goodie;)....loved it!!! ;D

Cheers Nomad

[Simmo2]

With the amount of Vhf radio's being sold, willy nilly, I see the Class licence being changed in the near future.
I also see the numbers 6,8, 34, 38, 21 and 7
Also race 8 at Randwick.

[mik01]

wow. haven't i shaken the bees nest.

Mik01 to add to what you said about police demanding it. i have been pulled up on many a fishing trip where the water police asked if we had a licence to drive a boat. Both the owner and myself have a licence, but left our wallet in the car... the cops said that was fine.

Ok.. think about this........ Travelling through Green Zones you have to have your fishing gear "technically speaking" unrigged... but who does.... So. if i'm on the water with my VHF aeriel not plugged in and sitting on the floor they can't technically get me for not having a VHF licence as it isn't connected.


same here with the water police. but all the same, I still have a license and paid for it because it is a legal requirement.
I guess you could do argue anything to justify why you shoudn't have to pay money for something that is a legal requirement.

your question was - is it really necessary? I agree with JT etc, that it seems a silly waste of money and you can acquire the skills without the license (but again, you can acquire any skills without sitting a license test).

but legally, it IS necessary. end of argument - whether you agree with it or not.

[black runner]

[quote=Hamish73;774266]Local Guy (and anyone else), without doing any reasearch, can you answer this question?

What hours or the day are you NOT permitted to use channel 16 in a NON emergency situation?

A: Silence periods to listen for distress calls on VHF 16 for 3 minutes past the hour and for 3 minutes past the half hour every hour of the day. - You learn this in the course too!! Its all good stuff and helps you get the most out of operating a VHF. You also get to meet other operators, learn a bit about electrics/electronics/fault finding, find out who runs your local Coast Station and maybe join up.

Do the proficiency course - its more than just a ticket!

[QF3 MROCP]

Having read all the chat on this subject and as a MROCP trainer for Coast Guard, just consider the following:

EDUCATION - EXAMINATION - EXAMPLE

Never consider the radio is their for your benefit, it's purely a safety device for hearing that one call we hope we never want - MAYDAY, MAYDAY.MAYDAY.

80% of students would come for the EDUCATION and interaction with other boaties - 15% for a qualification (employment) and the remaining because they "have too legally" - but they still enjoy the EDUCATION.

Peter

[Deepdiver]

Im with ya there black runner,its more than just a ticket allright.There`s a heck of a lot i learn`t doing the coarse as well like how an epirb works,how to put out a mayday call,how to mayday relay,using a repeater properly ect ect ect.Many of people have commented on what a waist of money getting the licence is but maybe they wouldn`t say that if there 40+miles out to sea and sinking while there scratching there head wondering how to use this radio thingie.The way i see it the ocean can be a wild place sometimes and the more you can learn the better to stay allive the better.You never know you might just be able help someone else.Sorry for waffleing on Cheers Paul

[Getout]

I was out on Sunday last on Moreton bay with my radio on Ch16 as always and there where a couple kids playing around on Ch16. Maybe if the responsible person on the boat had done a course and learnt about the importance of a listening watch on Ch 16 then this sort of thing wouldn't happen

*Bingo! *

[hondaguy]

Once I found about VHF's DSC funtion and when interfaced with GPS to broadcasts your exact location and time. Then keep broadcasting at set intervals whilst still able to with the press of a button. No speech is necessary and rescue group as access to all your contact details. But for this you need your VHF or higher licience to obtain your MMSI to attivate the DSC. function. Smaller search area than even the new 406 epirbs should equal quicker rescue should the need arise. Hope it doesn't. Do you have epirb or PDF's onboard?

[Local_Guy]

i have an analogue EPIRB on board. but at the end of this year i won't be getting a new one as within our general area and as far out as i plan to go i don't legally have to have one but, If they drop in price i will. and PDF's, V-sheet, flares, yes.

[DR]

Once I found about VHF's DSC funtion and when interfaced with GPS to broadcasts your exact location and time. Then keep broadcasting at set intervals whilst still able to with the press of a button. No speech is necessary and rescue group as access to all your contact details. But for this you need your VHF or higher licience to obtain your MMSI to attivate the DSC. function. Smaller search area than even the new 406 epirbs should equal quicker rescue should the need arise. Hope it doesn't. Do you have epirb or PDF's onboard?

phew! didn't think anyone was going to mention DSC, can't get it working without a licencel:)

[sea raider]

From the Amcom MROCP Handbook;

Australia is a member of the International
Telecommunication Union (ITU). This body
regulates radio frequency usage, and the
operations and use of radiocommunications
equipment on a world-wide basis.

Operators of ship stations other than those
operating exclusively in the 27 MHz marine
band, must possess a certificate of proficiency
issued in accordance with ITU regulations and the

Australian Radiocommunications Act 1992, or a
certificate considered to be of an equivalent or
higher standard.

Operators on vessels that are subject to State or
Territory legislation should ensure that they are
qualified under that legislation.

Provided the ship radio station is under the
control of a person holding a relevant certificate,
persons other than the holder of the certificate
may operate the equipment.

Reading this, it is an international obligation to have a Certificate of Proficiency, not an Australian law.

Cheers

geoff

[sea raider]

I can tell you that if I was out on the water and either trying to get out or receive a Mayday call and it was being interrupted by some idiot who hasnt worried to properly learn how to use this vital piece of safety equipment, he would want to hope the authorities got to him before I did.

[subzero]

Spot on Sea Raider, everyone always whinges and bleets about revenue raising but as you so correctly point out we are signatories to the ITU so therefore have to follow the conventions although somehow the USA has got around it.

It amazes me how many extremely knowledgeable people, far more knowledgeable than myself in many instances about radio transmitting devices, power supplies, radio propagation... people whom understand and have used far superior forms of communication devices, come to a radio course and say at the end of it, Jesus, I didn't know that, I had forgotten that or I thought I knew it all but I guess I didn't. I have had people whom trained in Military sig's, Qantas trainers, Virgin Airlines pilots, people whom have worked on ships for all their lives but have decided to update or better their education with improvements and procedures in technology.... many by choice because their certificates such as RROCP may have done the job but wanted to improve themselves.

I don't know bugger all about the fancy stuff, cant be bothered attempting to teach it, care even less about learning it if it is not goping to benefit me on the water or my students on the water.
I DONT KNOW IT ALL, I learn from my students on every course I run in one way or another, yet their are people in here whom know it all and are simply too BRILLIANT (or should that be arrogant) to learn anything or at least admit that others may and will benefit from gaining some knowledge.

My rant, my rave, I just cant believe that in this day and age that their are people whom really think that they know it all and insist its all anarchy and revenue raising so therefore demand they be exempted from the laws the rest of us either have to obey or follow willingly.
Me, I am ready to learn. I am not ready to argue, that is why I have managed to stay out of this and several other posts as long as I have up until now. I will now quietly skulk off in to the background and try very very hard not to reply to the numerous comments that are likely to follow.
My opinions and my opinions alone. Like them or lump them!!!!

Regards Lloyd

[QF3 MROCP]

Subzone... you are so right about letting them go. Now they don't want to have EPIRBS!! ...... it's all about money..

Money for bait, beer and boat, but none for SAFETY or to help those VMR's who have to sell raffle tickets or Sausage Sizzles to keep afloat (excuse the pun), just to be told to p.... off after traveling 20 mile to tow them back. Some don't even want to pay for fuel that is delivered to them because they haven't planned the day... but don't worry - we'll have the bait, beer and boat accessories... Go'n to bed... been busy over the weekend training new radio operators as a VOLUNTEER.

Yes doctor.. my next appointment is when?

[Taroona]

phew! didn't think anyone was going to mention DSC, can't get it working without a licencel:)

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DSC is monitored here.

[FNQCairns]

Here is a link from a previous discussion, had a poll I think but it is gone, mention of the results is throught the thread:

If interested in reading it make yourself a coffee first:)

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=65506

cheers fnq

[subzero]

DSC is not activated for either transmission or reception until the feature is installed in a DSC capable set.

The feature is only activated once a 9 digit MMSI number is installed.

Only those whom have either a MROCP or MROVCP can apply for the MMSI number to activate the feature and this is done through AMSA.

Some rescue units have applied and installed the 9 digit MMSI number and therefore will automatically monitor DSC if within range of a station transmitting.

The VHF radio does not have to physically scan VHF channel 70 as it will do so passively in the background without your knowledge.

You may miss a DSC message/alert if your VHF radio is transmitting at the same time a DSC message has been sent.

This is a huge subject, it is a very misunderstood system that is poorly accepted and utilized. My recommendation to anyone is even if you do not wish to sit for a license, consider sitting through a course and learning a little about this very useful feature.

Cheers Lloyd

[Simmo2]

Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think DSC is monitored here.

To my understanding, no, not by the authorities as such, yet.

[subzero]

Go to this link
http://www.amsa.gov.au/publications/fact%5Fsheets/vhfdsc%5Ffact.pdf
DSC Fact Sheet

005030089 VMR441 VMR VICTORIA PT BASE
005038833 VMR400 VMR Southport Coast Station
503093900 VMQ8773 VMR1 Whitsunday
503083400 VJT6292 Rescue 1
005030002 VMR215 POINT CLARE BASE STATION
503051900 VHQ3791 POINT DANGER 2
005030084 VMR460 POINT DANGER LIGHT HOUSE
005030126 VMR360 Coast Guard Melbourne
005030135 VMT232 Coast Radio Hobart Base Station
005038829 VMR261 Coast Guard Sydney
503091700 Coast Guard 95

[subzero]

More examples
005030013 VMR 217 PORT STEPHENS RVCP
005030016 VMR201 EDEN RVCP
005030020 VMR202 MERIMBULA RVCP
005030012 VMR203 COAST STATION
005030024 VMR204 MORUYA BASE STATION
005030057 VMR205 RVCP WATCHKEEPER
005030010 VMR205 BATEMANS BAY RVCP
005030026 VMR206 KIOLOA BASE STATION
005030015 VMR207 RVCP Base Station Ulladulla
005030014 VMR208 SUSSEX INLET RVCP
005030011 VMR209 RVCP Jervis Bay Coast Station
005030022 VMR210 WOLLONGONG BASE STATION
005030025 VMR211 BOTANY BAY BASE STATION
005030007 VMR212 SYDNEY RVCP
005030008 VMR213 BROKEN BAY RVCP
005030002 VMR215 POINT CLARE BASE STATION
005030017 VMR216 LAKE MACQUARIE RVCP
005030019 VMR218 RVCP Forster Tuncurry
005030082 VMR219 CROWDY HEAD BASE
503030028 VMR220 RVCP Shepherds Hill
005030028 VMR220 NEWCASTLE BASE STATION
005030009 VMR221 SOUTH WEST ROCKS RVCP
005030018 VMR223 COFFS HARBOUR RVCP
005030093 VMR2233 Coast Station Portland
005030006 VMR224 BYRON BAY RVCP
005030027 VMR225 TERRY HILLS BASE STATION
005030088 VMR259 EVANS HEAD BASE STATION
005038829 VMR261 Coast Guard Sydney
005030129 VMR263 AVCGA Cottage Point MRB
005030081 VMR264 SWANSEA BASE
005030055 VMR271 PT MACQUARIE BASE
005030124 VMR273 Wooli VRA Land Base Station
005030030 VMR275 SOLANDER BASE STATION
005030126 VMR360 Coast Guard Melbourne
005030111 VMR361 AVCG VF4 Hastings Coast Station
005030123 VMR362 AVCG VF02
005030114 VMR367 AVCG VF7
005030122 VMR369 AVCG Coast Station Queenscliff
005030115 VMR371 AVCG VF01
005030132 VMR392 AVCG Port Franklin Base Station
005030131 VMR392 AVCG Port Welshpool Base Station
005038833 VMR400 VMR Southport Coast Station
503082900 VMR403 Sputty
005030032 VMR405 NOOSA BASE STATION
005030037 VMR417 TIN CAN BAY BASE
005030096 VMR419 AVCG Base Station Rockhampton QF19
005030125 VMR421 Sandy Straits Coast Guard
005030089 VMR441 VMR VICTORIA PT BASE
005030059 VMR442 WHITSUNDAY BASE
005034444 VMR444 CAIRNS MARINE RADIO BASE
005030084 VMR460 POINT DANGER LIGHT HOUSE
005030033 VMR502 SA SEA RESCUE - ADELAIDE
005030120 VMR508 SA Sea Rescue Copper Coast
005030128 VMR512 SA SEA RESCUE - SEATON
005030116 VMR523 VMR American River Radio
005030058 VMR555 PT ADELAIDE BASE
005030092 VMR611 Mandurah Water Rescue Station

[subzero]

I think this is the last of the Rescue Units/Groups that have DSC installed in their sets.
503091600 VMR611 Spirit Of Mandurah
005030104 VMR616 Peaceful Bay Base Station
503210400 VMR628 RV BREMS
005038831 VMR634 Bunbury SAR Base Station
005030110 VMR670 Geraldton VMR Land Base
503142900 VMR670 Delron
005030087 VMR685 KARRATHA BASE
005030085 VMR685 DAMPIER BOAT SHED
503095900 VMR685 North West Shelf Venturer
005030086 VMR685 DAMPIER BASE
005038836 VMR688 Lancelin Sea Search Rescue 1
005038837 VMR688 Lanceline Sea Search Rescue 2
503076100 VMR689 Pilbara Seeker
005030097 VMR707 St Helens Coast Station
005030130 VMR815 AVCG Paynesville
005030038 VMR900 MORNINGTON VMR

Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

Depending on how you search their are others as well. This was by searching for AVCG in the call sign. You will notice several dont have a VMR Call Sign which is how I searched earlier or at the begining I searched by MMSI numbers beginning with 00503XXXX so as to get Australian Maritime, Coast and Limited Coast Stations

005030056 AVCG ADELAIDE BASE
005030077 AVCG EMU BAY
005030096 VMR419 AVCG Base Station Rockhampton QF19
005030111 VMR361 AVCG VF4 Hastings Coast Station
005030113 AVCG Ingham Base Station
005030114 VMR367 AVCG VF7
005030115 VMR371 AVCG VF01
005030122 VMR369 AVCG Coast Station Queenscliff
005030123 VMR362 AVCG VF02
005030129 VMR263 AVCGA Cottage Point MRB
005030130 VMR815 AVCG Paynesville
005030131 VMR392 AVCG Port Welshpool Base Station
005030132 VMR392 AVCG Port Franklin Base Station
005038828 AVCG Port MacDonnell
503164200 VK3314 AVCG Queenscliff CG09
503187300 VKV7085 AVCG Port Welspool CG20

[subzero]

For anyone to use the search feature here is the link at AMSA. The search engine itself is pretty un-user friendly and it is difficult to get good sensible search results in my opinion.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/search%5Fand%5Frescue/distress%5Fand%5Fsafety%5Fcommunications/maritime%5Fmobile%5Fservice%5Fidentity/Search_for_an_MMSI_number.asp

[Simmo2]

The 'system' is seriously flawed lloyd, surely you cant disagree with that?
Forget my gripe, and look into the general picture.....
I DO AGREE one should obtain a licence to operate!
However....
XYZ can sell a radio, with the ABC antenna....NOT informing the user that it is technically 'illegal' to use it.

You are correct with DSC, what a brilliant usage of digital technology, but....it will never reach its potential with rulings set as they are.

It is so silly that I could buy a 406 epirb, right now, and set it off on say Bribie, and be home on the mainland a short time later to watch the planes fly over.
A few mates, some beers, what fun......NOT!
Yet if I had to register it with full contact details, for it to work, then I wouldn't be playing with it unless it was a dire circumstance.

AMSA/ACMA should be issuing MMSI to those that request one, including the full contact details that are requested now. If the operators were dickheads, they wouldn't be so consciensious in asking for one.

If DSC were to be abused in this case, there may well be a monitoring station that would record the mmsi of that station. Action could be taken via any of the contact details of that recorded mmsi.

Also, intermittent monitoring or scantily spread units that do have the resources incorporating DSC should not be construed as the system is being monitored by the 'authorities'. It clearly is not. However, I did say above...YET.

[garman1]

I sat the course that Peter taught last Sunday, thankyou Peter for giving up your free time. I found it VERY informative and I certainly learnt that there was more to our VHF system than "turnin"it on. I now know that there will be someone listening on 16, because I attended the course and if I'm on the east side of moreton I am not on my own......................

To all the volunteers thankyou. and if I need fuel I will gladly pay for it no problems at all (chuckle)

Also I pray that I never hear the word MAYDAY, but I b
Good Fishing


Gaz

[garman1]

Also I pray that I never hear the word mayday but i beleive that with the course I attended I would stand a better chance of helping someone else out.

Thankyou Peter again for your valueable time.......................................

Good Fishing

Gaz

[QF3 MROCP]

For anyone to use the search feature here is the link at AMSA. The search engine itself is pretty un-user friendly and it is difficult to get good sensible search results in my opinion.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/search%5Fand%5Frescue/distress%5Fand%5Fsafety%5Fcommunications/maritime%5Fmobile%5Fservice%5Fidentity/Search_for_an_MMSI_number.asp
Please everyone, actually phone the location to confirm they really do have the DSC in operation. Two years ago I rang a few of those locations published on the net and the operator at the location had no clue what I was talking about.

Just look at the disclaimer AMSA place on the web page:

Note: AMSA provides access to the information contained in this database free of charge. AMSA does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information and accepts no responsibility or liability whatsoever for any errors, defects, faults or omissions in the information. No person should act or fail to act on the basis of the information and persons should make their own inquiries about its accuracy. For further information, please contact AMSA on 1800 641 792.

5 P's - Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance

[subzero]

The 'system' is seriously flawed lloyd, surely you cant disagree with that? I do agree but in my opinion it is mainly because of the fact that users have a poor understanding of the system

Forget my gripe, and look into the general picture.....
I DO AGREE one should obtain a licence to operate!
However....
XYZ can sell a radio, with the ABC antenna....NOT informing the user that it is technically 'illegal' to use it.

You are correct with DSC, what a brilliant usage of digital technology, but....it will never reach its potential with rulings set as they are.

It is so silly that I could buy a 406 epirb, right now, and set it off on say Bribie, and be home on the mainland a short time later to watch the planes fly over.
A few mates, some beers, what fun......NOT!
Yet if I had to register it with full contact details, for it to work, then I wouldn't be playing with it unless it was a dire circumstance. I cant argue with that

AMSA/ACMA should be issuing MMSI to those that request one, including the full contact details that are requested now. If the operators were dickheads, they wouldn't be so consciensious in asking for one. Yes, I accept that and agree, hopefully they would also be conscientious enough to learn how to use the system before having the need to and possibly complicating matters by making wrong choices.

If DSC were to be abused in this case, there may well be a monitoring station that would record the mmsi of that station. Action could be taken via any of the contact details of that recorded mmsi.

Also, intermittent monitoring or scantily spread units that do have the resources incorporating DSC should not be construed as the system is being monitored by the 'authorities'. I agree, it is very scantily used and monitored. Its a shame that more Rescue units don't promote its features by supporting its introduction. A few members will always not like change and struggle to use any form of modern technology efficiently if at all and this includes, plotters, sounders and radar as well. It clearly is not. However, I did say above...YET.

Replys in red simmo2.
Cheers Lloyd

[jtpython]

This is all good , And don't agree with the system in process but who's to say you can use your radio better then me, And as first stated it's to stop misuse and inproper use of this system now if i am right didn't license's come in to play for UHF what happened with this?
How do they police and how do they REALLY POLICE THIS
I have every flare every epirb every parachute flare in my boat if my boat sinks and i can't get to my Radio or my electronics go?
What i AM SAYING IS OK THEY TEACH YOU RIGHT WAYS TO USE THE RADIO BUT WHATS TO SAY THAT MY FATHER CAN'T TEACH ME HOW TO USE MY RADIO IN THE RIGHT MANNER. I KNOW A LICENSE YOU MAY HAVE TO HAVE BUT PLEASE IF I DO A COURSE CAN I HONESTLY SAY I AM THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS A RIGHT TO USE IT?
Do i have to teach my young ones to use a radio with a learners and if i call the coastgaurd that i am a social member of and support them every chance i get will approach me when i call up in a distress mode and ask me " hey have you a license to be calling us?"
Most of youse may think i'm a knob but i'm just looking for logic
JOHN
And to people that have a license i don't knock anyone for it but can you use your radio better then me

[Nomad62]

Most of youse may think i'm a knob but i'm just looking for logic
JOHN

jtpython,

Keep looking mate, the logic you are looking for has been covered in previous posts!!

The bottom line is you need a License...full stop!!!

Cheers Nomad

[Jeremy]

What hours or the day are you NOT permitted to use channel 16 in a NON emergency situation?


WRONG! There are NO TIMES when it is illegal to use channel 16. The radiotelephony silence periods are recommendations only. See Marine Rodio Operators Handbook 2002, p 30. The international regulations NO LONGER REQUIRE silence periods to be observed.

There is a big difference between 'SHOULD' be observed and 'MUST' be observed.



If you dont know the answer you are risking other peoples lives and shouldnt be on the air IMO.


so will you be handing you VHF radio back LOL?

Jeremy

[Local_Guy]

there have been a lot of posts about people letting their kids abusing the radio and idiots on the radio.. who's to say these people don't have their licence.

nothing is going to stop a complete idiot with a vhf licence abusing it if their IQ is their shoe size.

most of the time i head out, my radio is switched off anyway. yeah it might be law to have a licence, but that doesn't mean i don't know how to use one and use the proper terminology... like JT said. he dosen't have a licence, but i bet he knows how to use it as good if not better than the next bloke who does.

i think my mind is made up. i'm gonna save my money and buy a new fishing rod instead.

[Taroona]

I thought i would check with AVCG for the Moreton region that is CG Redcliffe and CG Brisbane and here is the reply I received


We do not monitor DSC and to best of my knowledge there would be very
few if any stations that monitor it in Queensland if not Australia. It
is a great idea but until the atohorities get there act together I feel
that it will be exactly that.
Channels we monitor in the VHF range are 16 73 (81repeter) (21repeter)
(63Police Channel) 67
--
*Allan Tennent *
*Commander *
*Coast Guard Brisbane Q.F.2 *

[Noelm]

are you saying he told you no one monitors DSC??

[Taroona]

That's right the AVCG do not monitor DSC on the VHF frequency here in moreton bay, So I guess they wouldn't else where in QLD. But what I'm getting from his email is that nobody monitors VHF DSC in Australia. That doesn't mean that my radio with DSC on it won't pick up a call from somebody pressing the DSC button on thier radio. That's providing I'm within radio range.

I'm still waiting for a reply from VMR southern region

Les

[sea raider]

From the Marine Radio Operators Handbook.

20. RADIOTELEPHONY SILENCE PERIODS


20.1 International regulations no longer require silence
periods to be observed on the distress and calling
frequencies. ◆•


20.2 However, to increase the safety of life at sea
in Australia, two three-minute periods of
radiotelephony silence should be observed in
each hour. ◆•


20.3 Radiotelephony silence periods start on the hour
and continue to three minutes past the hour, and
on the half hour until thirty-three minutes past
the hour. ◆•


20.4 With the exception of distress calls and messages,
all aural transmissions from all stations should
cease during these periods. ◆•


20.5 It is the practice in all Australian waters to observe
silence periods on the radiotelephony distress
frequencies of either 2182, 4125, 6215, 8291,
12 290, 16 420 kHz and VHF channel 16. ◆•


20.6 During periods of normal working, a weak distress
signal may not be heard. Silence periods increase
the chances of a distressed vessel’s signals being
heard by other stations.

20.7 It is important that ship station operators have
access to an accurate clock or watch to ensure
correct observance of silence periods. An
accurate clock is also useful to record the time
at which communication occurred, particularly in
emergency situations.

20.8 In some locations in Australia silence periods are
observed on 27 MHz marine frequencies.

20.9 Silence periods are not observed on the MF/HF
DSC frequencies and VHF DSC channel.

No, it's not the law to observe the Silence periods, it is just a practice. But a fairly important practice to follow



SECTINON 3 MONITORING OF RADIOTELEPHONY
FREQUENCIES (WATCHKEEPING)

[sea raider]

Another interesting bit from the handbook;


8. AUTHORITY OF THE MASTER

8.1 A ship radio station and the service it provides
is placed under the authority of the master,
skipper, or the person responsible for the safety
of the vessel. ◆•

So, if some idiot or kids are nattering away on the emergency channel, it is the responsibility of whoever is in charge of that vessel to see that they dont.

[sea raider]

And some other legal stuff;


11. DISTRESS CALLS


11.1 T he obligation to accept distress alerts, calls
and messages is absolute and such messages
must be accepted with priority over all other
radiocommunications. ◆•


12. FALSE OR DECEPTIVE DISTRESS, URGENCY OR
SAFETY SIGNALS

12.1 The transmission of false or deceptive
distress, urgency or safety signals is strictly
forbidden. Extremely severe penalties,
including imprisonment, exist under the

Radiocommunications Act 1992 for any person
found guilty of making such a transmission. ◆•


13. UNNECESSARY TRANSMISSIONS

13.1 Transmissions should be as brief as possible
consistent with the legitimate requirement for
which a station is licensed. Non essential remarks,
bad language and unnecessary conversations
should be avoided. ◆•


13.2 It is an offence under the Radiocommunications
Act 1992 to use a transmitter in a manner that
is likely to cause a reasonable person to be
seriously alarmed or affronted, or for the purpose
of harassing a person. ◆•


14. AVOIDANCE OF INTERFERENCE

14.1 Operators should take every precaution to ensure
that their transmissions will not cause harmful
interference to other stations. It is important that
all operators:
>> listen before transmitting to ensure the
frequency is not already in use;
>> use the minimum transmitting power
necessary for reliable communications;
>> strictly observe the purpose for which a
frequency is assigned; and
>> keep test signals to a minimum. ◆•


15. DOCUMENTS TO BE HELD ON BOARD

15.1 In addition to the station licence and operator’s
certificate, a copy of this handbook and material
suitable for use as a radio log book should be held
aboard a vessel. ◆•

[Taroona]

here you go reply from CG Redcliffe

Dear Les

To my knowledge, no one in Coast Station in Moreton Bay monitors VHF DSC. The equipment is not available to monitor as yet. It is only just started in Europe. North America has finished the rollout and is operational. As I understand it, it is still some years away.

Malcolm Olding
Commander
Coast Guard Redcliffe.

[seatime]

Every merchant ship plying the coast and transiting waters of Aus are monitoring DSC, and they are obliged to keep a log, and assist if close and able, or relay the distress to a Coast Station if unable to assist. There are a lot of merchant ships around the coast and they have a good transmission range + 24hr watches.

[subzero]

WRONG! There are NO TIMES when it is illegal to use channel 16. The radiotelephony silence periods are recommendations only. See Marine Rodio Operators Handbook 2002, p 30. The international regulations NO LONGER REQUIRE silence periods to be observed.

There is a big difference between 'SHOULD' be observed and 'MUST' be observed.



so will you be handing you VHF radio back LOL?

Jeremy

Just wanting to clarify Jeremy, their are circumstances (Not times as you correctly say going to the definition of the word "should").

MROCP Handbook
Page 72
133.6
"Any station which is aware of distress traffic is forbidden to transmit on any frequency which is being used for that traffic".

Yes I am splitting hairs on this point, but I don't want people getting confused that it is just open slather just the same. I know that you know your stuff, but not everyone does.

Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

here you go reply from CG Redcliffe

Dear Les

To my knowledge, no one in Coast Station in Moreton Bay monitors VHF DSC. The equipment is not available to monitor as yet. It is only just started in Europe. North America has finished the rollout and is operational. As I understand it, it is still some years away.

Malcolm Olding
Commander
Coast Guard Redcliffe.

Firstly their is no Coast Station in Brisbane. The nearest of the 9 State Run Coast Radio Stations to us are in Gladstone and Sydney so therefore they will not hear anyone using VHF DSC over those kinds of distances. (Perhaps Commander Malcolm Olding was referring to Limited Coast Stations)?

Other vessels are likely to hear such transmissions which includes any Rescue Vessels fitted with a DSC enabled radio and in reality, more importantly because of the numbers of them out there, private vessels and persons such as yourself.

I cant and wont speak for all VMR's, Coastguards or Coastal Patrols as to whether or not they monitor it, I wouldn't have a clue. What I did post is a number of MMSI numbers and the units that they belong to from throughout Australia. To me, that means that they have a set fitted with that 9 digit MMSI, if its turned on it works. If its working, its being monitored?

If anyone wants to call it an organized network of monitoring stations they are absolutely and totally wrong. When are they going to be monitored "Officially" by shore stations, when its use starts to become more common and people learn to accept it. It will never become an organized network until units and organizations start learning to work together and are effectively gently prodded in to utilizing the technology available to us.

I repeat that if the units have applied for a 9 digit MMSI number, have the sets turned on and are within range of the transmission they will receive a DSC alert. It requires no specialized equipment to send or receive DSC alerts/messages other than a Class D VHF DSC radio. For shore stations their are also Class A VHF DSC sets available with a greater range of features. (A private vessel can have this equipment fitted if they choose too as well).

I hope the info helps

Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

I recommend that anyone whom is interested in DSC in Australia visits this site.
It is very good and is an Australian site.

http://www.vhf-dsc.info/

They also have another site with a bit of HF DSC stuff etc as well, a lot of good information all around.
http://www.gmdss.com.au/recvsls.htm

Like I said, DESC is widely missunderstood and poorly accepted. Have a gander aqnd make up your own mind.

Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

This is all good , And don't agree with the system in process but who's to say you can use your radio better then me, And as first stated it's to stop misuse and inproper use of this system now if i am right didn't license's come in to play for UHF what happened with this?
How do they police and how do they REALLY POLICE THIS
I have every flare every epirb every parachute flare in my boat if my boat sinks and i can't get to my Radio or my electronics go?
What i AM SAYING IS OK THEY TEACH YOU RIGHT WAYS TO USE THE RADIO BUT WHATS TO SAY THAT MY FATHER CAN'T TEACH ME HOW TO USE MY RADIO IN THE RIGHT MANNER. I KNOW A LICENSE YOU MAY HAVE TO HAVE BUT PLEASE IF I DO A COURSE CAN I HONESTLY SAY I AM THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS A RIGHT TO USE IT?
Do i have to teach my young ones to use a radio with a learners and if i call the coastgaurd that i am a social member of and support them every chance i get will approach me when i call up in a distress mode and ask me " hey have you a license to be calling us?"
Most of youse may think i'm a knob but i'm just looking for logic
JOHN
And to people that have a license i don't knock anyone for it but can you use your radio better then me

John, personally I could not care less whether you or anyone else has a certificate to operate a marine radio. (I have stated this on several occasions over the years in multiple posts). All I care about personally is the fact that the person or persons operating it in time of need or using that set are able to make a call that will get them the necessary help in a timely fashion without buggering it up for them or everyone else. If you know enough to teach your kids about marine radio and how to use it, good on you! I hope you also take the time to teach them how to put on life jackets in the dark, activate your EPIRB and operate your flares. (Simulated the last 2). Can you answer that in the positive, good on you if you can!!!
As to your question, for all I know you may be a far more superior radio operator than myself, your Great Grandfather may have been Marconi himself ;D
I would never profess to say I am the greatest in the world and nor should others lest we start sounding like Anthony Mundine.

Lastly, we dont ask you if you call wether you have a radio lisence, a recreational ship masters license, a marriage liscence or any other liscense. Out job is plainly to assist and educate.... thats it

If you know what you are doing and pass that info on to others then thats great and my compliments to you :)

Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

The above posts have taken the entire Sat night for me to complete as I am a really slow 1 fingered typist. (Not really how I like to spend my Sat nights, yes my choice).

I hope you all will excuse me but I have a huge amount to do in preparation for upcoming courses both as a volunteer and for my work as well.

This time I will be away from the site for up to a week and will be resisting replying to any more posts on the subject as it really is huge. It cant be done justice on here no matter how hard you try as some people will misconstrue or misinterpret what is said without a full oral explanation.

Their are always the occasional detractors in here as well whom will deliberately attempt to trip you up if you put 1 word wrong in a sentence which also adds to the time proof reading over and over as you go ::) :-X .

Cheers Lloyd

[mik01]

I thought i would check with AVCG for the Moreton region that is CG Redcliffe and CG Brisbane and here is the reply I received


We do not monitor DSC and to best of my knowledge there would be very
few if any stations that monitor it in Queensland if not Australia. It
is a great idea but until the atohorities get there act together I feel
that it will be exactly that.
Channels we monitor in the VHF range are 16 73 (81repeter) (21repeter)
(63Police Channel) 67
--
*Allan Tennent *
*Commander *
*Coast Guard Brisbane Q.F.2 *


strange that all merchant ships utilise this technology, yet its not monitored on shore? I don't buy it... I've seen the Vicky Pt VMR using the icom dsc enabled units so I presume they would have a dsc unit number and as Lloyd says they must therefore be monitoring it.

regardless. if I ever go down and activate the dsc function I know my alert will be picked up by monitoring vessels and relayed to help onshore.

imagine your boat goes down so fast you literally can't take the time to send out a verbal mayday with your position? You hit the dsc alert button, get your jacket on and know that help is on the way.

the point isn't that the technology is 'useless' because 'avcg or vmr don't all monitor it' - if you did the course and have your license you will know that by sending out a dsc alert it repeats over and over to all vessels who are obliged to respond. it literally will not stop the alarm on a merchant vessel until the message is read.

if you don't want to fork out for it thats fine - everyone has a choice in life. as said earlier, the course and subsequent license teaches a multitude of things that every person can get something out of - its not just 'how to speak on your radio'.

having dsc is that extra peace of mind for me and didn't cost much at all when you think about it. its another set of eyes and ears out there...

[Taroona]

After doing the course with subzero last year some time it opened my eyes to about how I little I knew about the correct use of a VHF set at the time. Thats not to say I know everthing now.

My radio is always on 16 and my GPS is connected to it in case I need to use the DSC feature.

My initial response was to the list that subzero came out with listing all the stations that monitor DSC. So I sent an email off the AVCG and VMR. Haven't heard from VMR yet.

[Simmo2]

regardless. if I ever go down and activate the dsc function I know my alert will be picked up by monitoring vessels and relayed to help onshore.




That would be a very dangerous assumption to make Mik.
The data packets are extremely small and a whole host of issues could come into play here.

Please dont think that I am knocking the system, I'm not, I'm all for enhanced safety at sea, especially for the weekend wonders like you and I.

I also spoke to a mate who is a skipper of an east coast trawler, and he has heard of DSC but doesnt know much about it.

[mik01]

That would be a very dangerous assumption to make Mik.
The data packets are extremely small and a whole host of issues could come into play here.

Please dont think that I am knocking the system, I'm not, I'm all for enhanced safety at sea, especially for the weekend wonders like you and I.

I also spoke to a mate who is a skipper of an east coast trawler, and he has heard of DSC but doesnt know much about it.

I reckon I'll take whatever I can get at the time!! ;)

[Jeremy]

Just wanting to clarify Jeremy, their are circumstances (Not times as you correctly say going to the definition of the word "should").

MROCP Handbook
Page 72
133.6
"Any station which is aware of distress traffic is forbidden to transmit on any frequency which is being used for that traffic".

Yes I am splitting hairs on this point, but I don't want people getting confused that it is just open slather just the same. I know that you know your stuff, but not everyone does.

Cheers Lloyd

Yes, that is true and a good point. I was specifically talking about the silence periods, and forgot that area.

Jeremy

[QF3 MROCP]

I thought i would check with AVCG for the Moreton region that is CG Redcliffe and CG Brisbane and here is the reply I received


We do not monitor DSC and to best of my knowledge there would be very
few if any stations that monitor it in Queensland if not Australia. It
is a great idea but until the atohorities get there act together I feel
that it will be exactly that.
Channels we monitor in the VHF range are 16 73 (81repeter) (21repeter)
(63Police Channel) 67
--
*Allan Tennent *
*Commander *
*Coast Guard Brisbane Q.F.2 *


Please everyone, actually phone the location to confirm they really do have the DSC in operation. Two years ago I rang a few of those locations published on the net ( check subzero's postings above) and the operator at the location had no clue what I was talking about.

Just look at the disclaimer AMSA place on the web page:

Note: AMSA provides access to the information contained in this database free of charge. AMSA does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information and accepts no responsibility or liability whatsoever for any errors, defects, faults or omissions in the information. No person should act or fail to act on the basis of the information and persons should make their own inquiries about its accuracy. For further information, please contact AMSA on 1800 641 792.

5 P's - Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance

It's good Taroona made the effort to check before assuming and we all know what ass-u-me means!!

[QF3 MROCP]

I sat the course that Peter taught last Sunday, thankyou Peter for giving up your free time. I found it VERY informative and I certainly learnt that there was more to our VHF system than "turnin"it on. I now know that there will be someone listening on 16, because I attended the course and if I'm on the east side of moreton I am not on my own......................

To all the volunteers thankyou. and if I need fuel I will gladly pay for it no problems at all (chuckle)

Also I pray that I never hear the word MAYDAY, but I b
Good Fishing


Gaz

Thanks Gaz:

FYI everyone else..

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=126495

next course on April 13th

Peter

[Taroona]

Once the MMSI number is programmed into your radio how you go about testing it to see if it works!!!!!!!!!!

[Simmo2]

Once the MMSI number is programmed into your radio how you go about testing it to see if it works!!!!!!!!!!

Polling.
Set it up and ask your mate that also has DSC whether or not he can see you.

Found some great info here:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000726.html

A recent innovation in VHF Marine Radio Band radio communication has been the introduction of Digital Selective Calling (DSC). This function allows one radio to place a selective call to a particular other radio, and to transmit and receive digital information from that particular other radio. The design of DSC allows short text messages and even remote printing to occur. However, in small recreational vessels, most of the DSC capability is limited to Class-D, which implements some basic safety and position polling features. VHF Marine Radios which have Class-D Digital Selective Calling (DSC) capabilities include a function where the radio can transmit the vessel's position to other vessels. Generally the radio does not have a means of determining the vessel position itself, and the radio requires that it be connected to a source of NMEA-0183 data that will provide the vessel position information. Typically a radio's NEMA-0183 INPUT is connected to an NMEA-0183 OUTPUT from the vessel's GPS receiver. The GPS is configured to transmit the proper data on this connection, and the radio listens to the data stream.
The vessel's position information is not transmitted continuously. The most common use is the transmission of the vessel position when the DISTRESS button has been activated. In that situation, the radio sends the vessel's position as part of the distress notification message which is transmitted. In addition to the vessels' position, the radio will also transmit the age of the position information and the accuracy of the data. This is a good design feature, as the vessel's GPS may have been disabled and might have old data on its output. Others who receive the data can assess its value based on its age and accuracy. The distress message is a broadcast message and will be delivered to all vessels with a DSC radio which receive the signal. It is somewhat ironic that the Digital SELECTIVE Calling feature is being used here in its most basic application as a non-selective or broadcast transmission.
This functionality and integration of the vessel's radio and GPS are the most basic implementation of vessel position polling. However, the design of DSC allows for other uses of this information in non-emergency situations. For example, a vessel may transmit its position information to a particular other vessel. In this way, two vessels may privately exchange their position information. In order for this to be done, the DSC radio must also have the ability to receive DSC messages and relay their contents on an NMEA-0183 OUTPUT. Typically this data would be sent to a Chart plotter device. (The chart plotter may integrated with a GPS receiver or could be a separate display device.) The chart plotter would then plot the position of the vessel on its display.
Not all VHF Marine Band radios have the ability to both send and receive DSC data. Typically, this feature is only offered on the more expensive models of DSC radios. Look for an indication that a particular radio has DSC position polling reception.
Also, not all chart plotters have the capability to display or plot the position of other vessels. Look for an indication that a particular chart plotter has an NMEA-0183 INPUT and will plot vessel position data it receives.
Let us assume we have two vessels which have the proper radio and chart plotters aboard, and they have been properly interconnected. What else is needed for the two vessels to exchange position data?
The first requirement is that the vessels have registered their DSC radios and obtained an Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI). The MMSI is a unique registration number which is programmed into the radio. This identifier is used when the radio transmits (to identify the source of the transmission) and when the radio listens (to identify which messages are intended for that radio). Let's assume that both skippers have properly registered their radios and have obtained an MMSI.
Next, the MMSI must be programmed into the radio. Typically there is a special sequence for entering an MMSI into a radio. Be careful when programming a radio, as most devices do not permit the MMSI to be changed once programmed, or may only allow one change after initial programming! (In the U.S. there are federal regulations which require all radios sold to only allow the MMSI to be programmed twice by the user. This is probably to prevent capricious changes in a vessel's MMSI.)
Now the two skippers must exchange each other's MMSI in advance. In order to contact another vessel using DSC, you have to know that vessel's MMSI.
Finally, the MMSI of the other vessel has to be entered into the calling vessel's radio. The typical DCS radio on a recreational vessel does not have a full numeric keyboard for entering data, and this can make entry of the MMSI somewhat tedious to accomplish, particularly at sea. Thus it will most likely be necessary to pre-program the MMSI of the other vessel into your radio before leaving the dock. The typical process on a radio without a numeric keypad will probably involve a lot of additional keystrokes and button press combinations.
Now we are ready for our two vessels to exchange position information. Let's review the preparations needed on both vessels:
--DSC radio with input for position transmission
--DSC radio with output for received position
--MMSI registration of vessel
--MMSI programmed into vessel's radio
--GPS
--GPS output connected to radio input
--Chart plotter with input for external position plotting
--Chart plotter connected to radio
--Other vessel's MMSI known
--Other vessel's MMSI programmed into radio
And one final factor: both vessels have to be within radio range of each other! For most small recreational boats with antenna heights around 6-feet, this means the two vessels will have to be within about 8-miles of one another. Let's call them vessel-A and vessel-B to keep track.
Ready? Let's exchange position data. The procedure is as follows:
Vessel-a sends a POSITION REQUEST CALL to vessel-B. We'll use an ICOM radio as a typical radio and demonstrate the process:
TRANSMITTING A POSITION REQUEST CALL:
--Push DSC•POS to enter the DSC menu;
--Push [↑] or [↓] to select POS REQuest
--Push DSC•POS
--Push [↑] or [↓] to select the desired pre-programmed individual address;
--Push DSC•POS to enter the standby condition for Position Request Call; (channel 70 is selected on the radio and READY appears at the channel comment indicator;
--Push DSC•POS to transmit the Position Request call;
--After the Position Request call has been transmitted, the following indication is displayed: WAIT ACk
--Push any key to exit.
OK, our message has been sent. Assuming vessel-B is within radio range and is listening, the following will occur at that end (again assuming the use of a similar ICOM radio):
RECEIVING A POSITION REQUEST CALL
While monitoring Channel 70 and a Position Request call is received on vessel-B:
--DSC appears and RCV POS REQUEST scrolls at the channel comment indicator;
--the BEEP sounds for two minutes; press any key to stop the beep;
--Push DSC•POS to reply to the call; push any other key to ignore.
Back at vessel-A, he is now receving a reply to his request:
RECEIVING A POSITION REQUEST REPLY CALL
While monitor Channel 70 and a Position Request Reply call is received:
--DSC and POS REPLY appears in the display;
--the lattitude and longitude of vessel-B appear in the channel comment indicator and scroll across, showing first the latitude coordinate and then the longitude coordinate;
--the BEEP sounds for two minutes; press any key to stop the beep;
--Push DSC•POS to reply to the call; push any other key to ignore.
--the BEEP sounds for two minutes; press any key to stop the beep;
If vessel-A has his chart plotter turned on, the position of vessel-B should be shown. Repeat all of the above to exchange positions in the other direction.

[hondaguy]

Fishes 14 nm out and won't be replacing his analogue an epirb at the end of the year?. Got a VHF and no licence. Yep go and buy new fishing gear I am sure your mobile phone will work should you need communication to the rescue group your a member of. Safe boating everyone:)

[Taroona]

Got my MMSI number and programmed into VHF

Then got on the phone to see if I could test it to
1/. Vic point VMR.......... No
2/. Tried Raby bay......No
3/.Tried Brisbane CG...No Any way the AVCG had already said No, but thought I'd try anyway. The guy there answering the phone didn't even know what DSC was.