Starting off

[pommy]

Greetings all!

I have a Syder glass MT 8144 blank, grips, reel mount and guides. I have not built a rod before. Is there a thread that will show me how to start (or a video online)? I can't afford to buy books or DVDs on rod building at the moment.

Any help for a beginner would be most welcome.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[pommy]

Forgot to say I also have the info on the guide spacings and have had the grips cut to size.

Rob.

[roz]

http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/buildjig.html

http://visualweave.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=22


This is a link to a big rod building site. There is information on just about everything. The latter is an Australian site.

Come to think of it, I don't see why we couldn't put together a basic 'how to' guide here.

Please post up questions here, there are lots of good rod builders that would be more than happy to help you out.

roz.

[finga]

Mate if you want to visit me at Evans when I go down I can show the very basics.
I can only show the basics because that's all I know.
I'll be there in a week for a little while.
What's the specs on that blank?? I've never heard of that one.

[pommy]

It would be great to meet up!

I'm a teacher so I'm on holiday at the moment. The basics are what I need at the moment. What do do and in what order. I'm not looking for anything fancy, just fuji rings with black bindings on a black blank.

The blank is a glass, 8 wrap, multi-taper with a fair bit of grunt that I intend to use as a jewie rod.

Shall I pm you with my number?

Regards, Rob.

[BenatCoffs]

If you have the bandwidth, there are some good videos on youtube, just search 'rod building' and ignore all the hotrods :P

[ryansrods]

hi pommy im located in yamba if ya eva down this way i would gladley help ya out and show ya the basics let me know maybe even wet a line the barries and tuna arnt to far away now

[pommy]

Sounds good mate.

I get down to Yamba one or twice a holiday. Will give you a pm before I next go down. Would love to wet a line and chat.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[finga]

Well it's been a few day mate....so how's the binding going Rob??

[pommy]

Hi!

Hope you're having a great time at Evans!

Have had to pay for the morning we spent on the rod and a few too many wet weather days carving jewie lures, but....I have free morning tomorow and intend to make a good start.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks, Rob.

[pommy]

Having watched the videos and intending to put on the underbinds tommorow, do I need to use colour preserver on the black thread?

Rob.

[BenatCoffs]

No CP on black thread is required. If you have acrylic CP (the white stuff) it may make your top coat appear cloudy if you use it on black thread. Best to avoid CP on black (and even other really dark colours if you can).

[pommy]

Ehhh?!!............

[pommy]

Hey Finga.

Do I put the silver twirl on the underbind or overbind?

Rob.

[finga]

under matey

[pommy]

Underbinding done.

Rob

[finga]

woohoo...now the guides :D

[pommy]

G'day Scott.

Starting to grind down the feet of the rings. Not quite sure, from Doc Ski's video, how much to take off. He seemed to grind them down thin and level.

Do I do the same or....

just grind off the step towards the end of each leg so there is a smooth slope

OR

do the above and taper off each side?

The smaller legs don't seem to be a problem but the larger ones may require a specific approach.

Regards, Rob.

PS Can smell the river and the dead fish from my house! Shocking!

[finga]

smooth slope from the ends and sides.

[DR]

one thing you can do is once the guide feet have been ground down, grab hold of the wifes clear nail polish & wipe a thin coat (very thin, only just there) over the ground area, it just gives a little extra protection to the feet if water does get in..

[pommy]

Hmmm!....

Have completed the first overbind on the end two runners. They look OK but not quite up to the standard of the underbind. Slight imperfections in the underbind are magnified in the overbind?

Also, Í cant seem to get rid of the very small fluffy tags no matter how hard I burnish or try to copy Doc Ski.

Any suggestions?

In the meantime I will push on with more first overbinds.

Regards, in some frustration, Rob.

[DR]

is that the tag left after you trim off the thread at the end of the bind or is the thread fluffy in places here & there over the whole bind???

How do you burnish your binds??

[BenatCoffs]

With the tags, pull your loop up tight to the wrap, pull the tag end up and snip it off close to the loop. Then pull the loop through - you'll find the tag will come through 5-6 wraps and leave no fluffy bit (providing you wrapped more than 5-6 wraps over the loop!

I can do a video if you like??

[pommy]

Great!

Understood that BenatCoffs. Will follow your advice

I'm using the slightly curved/not too angular edge of a steel crab picker. A bit like the sacking needle that Finga showed me.

Regards and thanks, Rob.
Ballina.

[BenatCoffs]

I did a video anyway for the benefit of readers that have trouble translating words to actions.

Hope this helps with someone in their exploits!

AOk-tBOw7S0

[sid_fishes]

thanks for that mate , you know i did that the other day by mistake, turned out to be the best thing i have done in a while, cheers ian

[sid_fishes]

pommy post up some pics when you can as we all like to check out each others work, cheers ian

[pommy]

Hi Ian.

Have put first overbind on 4 runners. Things seem to be easier on the larger runners. Will continue tommorow.

I suppose I could post some piccies, but simple black thread on a black blank with 3 little bits of silver twirl at each guide is not going to get the crowds roaring. I'm going for a simple, macho, looking rod rather than a threadfest.

It's a lovely blank that I'm going to use for fishing jewie lures and livies. At present I'm just trying to get some of the more simple techniques right.

Would be interested in having a look at what you are doing.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[roz]

If you still manage to end up with the odd fluffy bit, provided it's not much, burn it off with a cigarette lighter.

[DR]

If you still manage to end up with the odd fluffy bit, provided it's not much, burn it off with a cigarette lighter.

yep!! :thumbsup:That will do it.

[pommy]

Thanks for that tip, Roz. The lighter got rid of the tiny fluffy bits.

Anyone have any pointers on filing down runner feet? When I file down the feet of the 20, 30 and 40 size runners do I file the edges so that there is bare metal clear to the edge of each runner or should there be a thin line of enamel along the very edge of the runner foot?

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[finga]

Mate there's no fixed rule.
You just want the gentlest transition possible for the thread to go up (and down) the blank. You just need to get rid of the 'lumpy' bits.
So on those big guides and the size of the blank where they go you probably won't have to take much, if any, off the sides.
The size C thread covers a fair bit as well. ;)

[pommy]

Greetings!

On a 12 foot rod, how far above the top grip should the bind go? 3'' , 4'' or more? I'm just using black thread with a bit of silver at intervals along it rather than a pattern.

Any ideas?

Thanks Rob.

[finga]

What ever takes your fancy matey.
No fixed rules amd your not going to get shot if you make it 2 or 4 inches.
I reckon they look nice with about 3/4 inch of black and then a trim band of silver (about 6 turns).

[pommy]

Thanks!

Went a hand's width in the end. Triple silver threads with black between, wide, single silver spiral over black and then six silver threads with black between to finish.

Look forward to meeting again Finga.

Rob.
Ballina

[rockfisho]

Hi mate.

I have just built a jewie rod recently aswell. I chose the FT5162 which is a bit longer. I suggest you use a different thread as your underbinds, as it is very difficult to bind black on black. i used c grade speed thread. For the stripping guide i used a wire ring size 60 because it is fairly robust and a large diametre for the loops coming off a 7 inch alvey

good luck mate

Owen

[pommy]

Hi Owen!

Fraid its just about done. Finga's going to show me how to epoxy the bindings but everything else is pretty much done.

You're not kidding about black on black! The bad weather at Ballina also meant that the light was pretty poor, which made it even more difficult. The rod looks the biz though and has a soft tip and plenty of grunt lower down.

The rod is set up to use with a larger size spinning reel with a 40 guide as stripper. I have a Daiwa Opus Bull 6000 and a 6500B baitrunner. Will use this rod for livies and lures.

I like to use Alveys and tend to do so for bait fishing. Still getting used to them though as I've only used them for a year or two. Got my knuckles wrapped this evening when I caught a 65cm schoolie off the rocks. Used a 12 foot light action beach rod and an Alvey 600 A5. Got him first cast on a 1/0 and prawn on 12 pound. Nice bite, but I was after bream and didn't move my hand quickly enough when he took off!

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[pommy]

G'day all!

Just wondering.

How many coats of colour preserver on the binding (C thread, black on black with silver twirl)? Three?

How many hours between each coat? Two?

How long before final coat and epoxying? 24 hours?

Regards, Rob.
Ballina

[BenatCoffs]

How many coats of colour preserver on the binding (C thread, black on black with silver twirl)? Three?


Rob, no CP is required for black or metallic threads.

Ben

[roz]

Rob, no CP is required for black or metallic threads.

Ben

Don't mean to contradict you Ben, but I learned the hard way that some speed brand metalics DO need preserver. I am trying to use up all my speed brand stuff for that reason, although some of their colours are quite good.

BTW the offending thread was metalic blue (dark) size A.

r.

[pommy]

G'day!

Went ahead and put three coats on with a minimum of two hours between coats. Is the surface of the bindings supposed to be absolutely smooth? What is the purpose of this speed filler? Is it to fill in gaps between some badly laid threads (cough, cough, cough!), providing a flat surface for the epoxy to sit on or is it a sort of soak in glue to bind the threads together?......or both?

Got a bit bored with it after 3 coats so will move on to epoxying over the next few days, unless someone says "Whoa!" put 6 coats on.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina.

[pommy]

G'day all and to Finga in particular if you're looking in.

Epoxying this weekend. Questions!

Do I epoxy some/all bindings at the same time, or do I do one at a time? On Doc Ski's DVD he uses 4 mL of each epoxy (total 8 mL) but this is on a 6ft spin rod rather than a 12ft. Do I do 8 mL worth of bindings and then allow to set before the next lot?

How thick/thin a layer of epoxy do I put on? Do I only put one layer on?

Do I put the epoxy on the underbind between the legs of the guide?

How important is it to rotate the rod while the epoxy sets?

Is 20 minutes the maximum working time I've got to apply each lot of epoxy?

Don't want to stuff things up at the last stage as the rod is looking quite good!

Thanks, Rob.
Ballina

[BenatCoffs]

Don't mean to contradict you Ben, but I learned the hard way that some speed brand metalics DO need preserver. I am trying to use up all my speed brand stuff for that reason, although some of their colours are quite good.

BTW the offending thread was metalic blue (dark) size A.

r.

What happened to it Roz?

Rob, if you are using the speed nasty smelling stuff then you won't have any cloudiness from the cp on your black threads. 8ml of epoxy would do a 12' rod. Do a thin coat leave it a day to harden and then do a second coat.

[pommy]

Thanks for that!

Finga has given me the use of his rod rolling rack and a motor for a few weeks. Should I rotate the rod after applying the epoxy? For 2 hours?

Thanks, Rob.

[BenatCoffs]

Rotate the rod by hand and let it sit a few moments so the epoxy sags and remove the sags with your brush. Once you have done this half a dozen times or so you'll have a nice even thin coating, you'll probably be able to see threads in places that aren't fully coated just dab a little epoxy on these spots. I put leftover epoxy on a piece of alfoil and use that to gauge when to turn the motor off - basically once it sets enough to not leave residue on your fingers is when I turn off, this can be anywhere from 2-6 hours depending on how accurate you were when you measured and the weather conditions. 24 hours later put your second expoy coat on and that one will really shine, will fully coat all threads and be the final coat - you also get the chance to mess up your first epoxy effort as dips or air bubbles can be fixed at this time.

[pommy]

Thanks again BenatCoffs.

The rods that I look at from the Bait shops seem to have quite a thick layer of epoxy over the bindings. Is this deceptive or is it generally the case with the cheaper rods?

Am I correct in thinking that in warm, humid weather the epoxy takes longer to set?

Thanks again, Rob.

[BenatCoffs]

you will end up with a thick glossy coating once you have done 2 layers. You can do the coat in a single layer but it is harder to keep it level and deal with air bubbles. Many many rods are built with a single epoxy layer though.

Yeah, warm n humid = slow.

[pommy]

First layer done and turning.

Rain outside, kids watching DVDs, time to paint some jewie lures!

Rob.

[Mark Fisher]

Hi Rob, As this is my first post on this site I don't want to come across like I know it all, which I obviously don't, but the purpose of the CP is to encapsulate the thread, stick it to the blank and finally to help get rid of air trapped in the thread. The added advantage is that once regular thread is CP'd and has dried, it retains its original colour. If you don't use the CP it will go transluscent. Depending on what you are doing, this can be the desired effect. Personally, get away from that smelly Speed CP and try something like Erskines, U40, Flex coat, Gudebrod or similar. IMO they are way better to use. The CP doesn't fill gaps in thread bindings unless you know how to roll the threads as the CP is drying.

Regards
Mark

[pommy]

Thanks for that!

That's just what I found. The speed filler was easy to use but left some small gaps between threads, even after 3 coats. Will move on to the erskine stuff next time.

Thanks, Rob.

[pommy]

Going quietly mad!

The rod roller is set up across the kitchen units and over the sink. It's the only place (not inhabited by bored children who destroy rod rollers) that is flat enough and long enough.

The thing is still rolling and after six hours the epoxy has still not set! Mixed it exactly 50/50. Warm and very humid conditions.

Washing up piling up and a meal to cook. Somebody is going to have a sense of humour failure as well as me!

And I've got to do it all again tomorrow!

Rob.

[pommy]

The epoxy was applied at 11-15 am this morning! It has still not hardened!

Do I have a problem? I mixed the epoxy and hardener 50/50 and did not apply too thick a coat.

Any ideas?

With trepidation, Rob.
Ballina.

[roz]

What happened to it Roz?

Rob, if you are using the speed nasty smelling stuff then you won't have any cloudiness from the cp on your black threads. 8ml of epoxy would do a 12' rod. Do a thin coat leave it a day to harden and then do a second coat.

Hi Ben,

The thread in question, Speed A metalic blue, was used on an 8 axis scale pattern, which for me is a biggie.

I graduate the colours from dark to light to hopefully achieve a 3D effect. On this occasion I blended the metalic blue in with the black just to lift it a little, the lightest colours in the wrap, were a soft tan/cream colour. Anyway the blue from the metalic turned the lighter threads blue as well, fortunately it didn't look to bad, so I didn't have to re-do the work....... PHew!!!!

I must add all the other threads in the wrap were NCP gudebrod. I still use Speed thread, as some of their colours are great, but must ALWAYS remember to use preserver with their stuff.

I also had one of their blue threads fade to an awful looking grey after one season, that tells me some of their colours are not UV stable....another good reason to use preserver! I believe this has happened to others also.

Ben, you might be lucky not to strike a bad batch, but if you put in 15 hours on a wrap it's not worth the risk imo.

cheers roz.

[nigelr]

Mate, personally I'd hold off the 2nd coat until the weather improves.
I've got a 3 piece braidbuster ready to roll and epoxy.
I won't touch it 'till the sun returns.
Your first coat may take days to totally harden if this rain continues.
The last rod I finished (Snyder MT 9144 coincidently) was about 3-4 weeks ago, the last coat was applied in conditions very much like these. It was after at least 3 full days of sunshine that the epoxy fully hardened.
It ended up ok, just took a lot longer to set.
Best of luck Rob.

[roz]

What ever takes your fancy matey.
No fixed rules amd your not going to get shot if you make it 2 or 4 inches.
I reckon they look nice with about 3/4 inch of black and then a trim band of silver (about 6 turns).


Pommy,

A word of caution DONT LET SCOTTY ANY WHERE NEAR YOUR CROSS WRAP!!!

I've seen the damage he can do if left to his own devices.... he is one of the nices blokes & I love him to bits..... BUT!!!!

As for resin application IMO less is more, in other words, I feel four or five thin coats is better than two or so thick ones.

I may have missed it some where in this thread, but what epoxy are you using??? The only reason I'm asking is because when I use Erskines I find it some how traps air bubbles a lot easier than brands like flex coat, which I much prefer to the other brands.

Adding heat with my hair dryer helped that problem and also smoothed out a few imperfections (fault of the user not the product), You can flame the epoxy, and Scotty will be able to show you how that's done...just don't let him touch your binding!!!!

cheers roz :)

[pommy]

Big sigh of relief!

I don't know what type of epoxy as Scott very kindly gave it to me in specimen containers (semen samples for the storing of!) :o

Will keep the roller going and will let the washing up pile up. Will eat dry rations only, until it sets.

Have learned a number of lessons so far on this first rod build. The latest, apart from the epoxy business, being to use a better quality filler than the smelly speed filler.

Unfortunately, a 12ft rod, slowly spinning, in the middle of the kitchen is not gaining me any browny points! Oh well!:-/

Regards, Rob.

[sid_fishes]

pommy ,mate scott,s stuff should have started to harden up by now.i did a first coat on a rebuild as late as 5.30 today its now 9.30[give or take ] and i,m turning the lathe off as we speak. by the way scott i have a flame thrower now and what a difference its made.[lesson 1 dont hold to close to plastic cup as hot flexcoat burns] he means well our scott cheers ian

[pommy]

Any ideas then? Is the 50/50 mix correct? I also mixed the epoxy and hardener slowly for 2 minutes so it should be well integrated.

I'm going to leave the roller running overnight and will see what happens by the morning.

Thanks, Rob.

[Mark Fisher]

Rob, Don't worry that the epoxy is still tacky. Mix up another batch and put it straight over the first. You will find that it is the humid weather causing you a few problems but once it finishes the epoxy should set up without any problems. I'm lucky because the climate out here is nearly always dry with very little humidity. You shouldn't have to have the rod turning for more than 2-3 hours. I use Threadmaster epoxy and my rods turn for 2 hours and are ready to recoat in 4. Whatever you do, don't touch your wraps to test if it is dry or not. You'll leave fingerprints in the epoxy. Touch test the container in which you mixed your epoxy. This will give you a good idea. Flaming also helps get rid of small bubbles.

Regards
Mark

[roz]

Don't worry Pommy, I put coat #3 on a rod yesterday and it's still sticky in patches.

That's something I would expect with all the rain we are having down here at the moment.... I really should put off doing the resin in wet weather, asking for trouble.

[pommy]

Wellllllll.........

Still rolling after 30 hours and still not set. Thanks for the advice nigelr and roz. Will be patient.

Will let it roll until set.

Thanks, rob.

[sid_fishes]

scott, are you sure you didn,t give pommy 2 part A,S OR B,S , cause its pouring down here at the moment, and was yesterday. and all i can say is for the first time in 2 yrs i,m happy with my epoxy job it looks trick[ got to build my ego up abit]

[pommy]

Rolling, rolling, rolling.

Keep that rod lathe rolling.

Rolling, rolling, rolling.

Rolling, rolling, rolling, I'm tired!


Bet the Blues Brothers never sang that!

Epoxy starting to set after 36 hours. I think???!!!

Regards to all, Rob.

[finga]

scott, are you sure you didn,t give pommy 2 part A,S OR B,S , cause its pouring down here at the moment, and was yesterday. and all i can say is for the first time in 2 yrs i,m happy with my epoxy job it looks trick[ got to build my ego up abit]
Yep, as sure as can be and I have been thinking exactly the same thought :-[
Rob, are the two parts slightly different colours??
One is slightly yellow, one clear.
It wouldn't be the first time I mixed two part A's though.

[Mark Fisher]

Hey Roz, You want to send some of that rain West? We could do with some. Have you tried Threadmaster epoxy? Great stuff and doesn't seem to be effected by humidity.

Regards
Mark

[finga]

Hey Roz, You want to send some of that rain West? We could do with some. Have you tried Threadmaster epoxy? Great stuff and doesn't seem to be effected by humidity.

Regards
Mark
Gidday Mark ;)
Gees you must be a top bloke with a name like that.
Cheers Scott Fisher ;D
PS Your not my cousin Mark by any chance?? :-/

[pommy]

Greetings all!

Just back from school. Still rolling after 55 hours.

One epoxy was clear and colourless and the other clear and amber in colour.

Mixed 50/50. Warmed each little test tube with a cigarette lighter to make contents run out (as per Doc Ski's DVD). 4 mL of each. I'm a Senior Chemistry teacher of 23 years so I probably got the quantities and reagents correct.

The wrap above the top grip is pretty much set but the smaller end rings are still tacky to the touch when I just touch my fingertip to the 2mm that goes beyond the binding onto the blank.

Humidity here probably 90%.

Will keep on rolling.

Regards, Rob.

[marty65]

I have just started using diamondite 2 part and it is awesome. long pot life and dries in no time. recommend it for anyone 2 use as well "easy"

Marty

[roz]

Hey Roz, You want to send some of that rain West? We could do with some. Have you tried Threadmaster epoxy? Great stuff and doesn't seem to be effected by humidity.

Regards
Mark

Wish I could Mark, we've had more than enough.... and by the way WELCOME TO AF:laola: .

I havn't tried Threadmaster epoxy yet, took a while to wean myself of erskines. I really thought that was a good product until I used flex, not implying erskines is a bad product but the other is certainly streets ahead.

r.

[tully]

Sorry to enter at the last minute all, but I'm starting to worry for your epoxy Pommy.
Bit late now to mention this, but I first got started rod building by reading a magazine I found in a newsagent called "Australian rodbuilder". Written by Ian Miller and Steve Starling, it had all the specs for commonly available blanks and quite a few recipies. Have not seen it for years, maybe not available any more, pity as it was well written and easy to follow.

[pommy]

OK folks.

The 4'' binding above the top grip is now set and the 40 and 30 rings almost so but the epoxy on the smaller bindings at the other end of the rod is still very sticky.

Possible scenario follows.

I mixed the two components for 2 minutes.

The mix for the first binds was thin and painted on easily.

After 20 minutes, as I got to the 4'' bind the epoxy was quite viscous and took some care to apply evenly.

Could it be that when I mixed I didn't do it thoroughly enough and the first mix applied to the top guides was largely epoxy or hardener? The more thoroughly mixed stuff being put on the lower guides and 4'' bind.

If this is a likely scenario what can I do? I'm going to keep rolling for the meantime but will a very thin application of pure epoxy or pure hardener work over the material on the end rings?

Thoughts?

Rob.

[nigelr]

Nothing wrong with your mixing Rob.
Just the humidity slowing things down.
No need to continue rolling the blank at this stage.
The sun is out here this am.
Get the blank out into it for as long as you can.
Then you will have 2 options, IMO.
1 - apply another coat straight away, only do this if we are going to get some sunny weather for a couple days.
2 - allow the present coat to fully harden, (say a week), gently 'key' the surface with 1200 wet and dry, then apply your second coat in sunny weather.
Do not apply straight epoxy or hardener under any circumstances!
Cheers mate, she'll be right, it will just take a bit longer than anticipated.

[OzRods]

Hi Pommy
I will second Mark and Nigel's post's. Apply another thin coat of epoxy and that should set off the first coat. Mixing the epoxy very well is important not only to make it set but I was told by the guru of rod building epoxy and glue Roger Seiders the owner of the Flex Coat Company that not mixing finish that bit extra makes it yellow a lot faster over time. So even though it has been mixed well enough to set up it should be mixed a lot more. I didn't believe him at first but I tried it and it is true the more it is mixed the less it yellows. The new Flex Coat with ultra V (UV inhibiter) would have to be one of the best finishes on the market not only that it would have to be one of the most user friendly. I suppose that is why it is the most used finish in the world I think just about every rod company in the USA use it. He even said he sells a truck load to Japan

[pommy]

G'day guys!

It's now 79 hours since the epoxy was first applied. I'm still rolling.

The binding above the grip is set and is set in places on the two larger rings.

Are people saying that I should apply a thin layer of epoxy over the still tacky/not set epoxy to harden it OR to wait until all the epoxy is set and then apply another, thin layer when the weather improves.

We had sunshine today but it was humid and I was at work. Couldn't leave the rod outside as if it rained then Finga's motor would have karked it and the unset epoxy would have got wet. With the number of mossies and flies around I would also have had a very expensive piece of fly paper.

Rob.

[nigelr]

Rob, no point continuing to roll at this stage unless you mount a bank of lights along the length of the roller, the heat from which cures the resin at a faster rate.
Pro and advanced home builders use a set-up like this, often enclosed in a drying box, complete with lid.
Most epoxy jobs will be stiff enough not to sag within 2 or 3 hours, 6 at the most.
You can get your rod out in the sun by putting it in a rod holder placed firmly into the ground at an angle suitable to maximise sun exposure, the suns' heat has the same effect as the lights.
I cure my rods before use (once fully touch dry) by exposing them to between 5 and 7 days of full sunlight.
The choice is yours alone as to which of the 2 courses of action outlined in the above posts you decide to take.
If you are confident of fine sunny hot weather tomorrow, go the next coat.
If you think it will continue wet and humid, IMO wait until you are confident in some sunny weather before applying the next coat. That way you will be sure it will set properly.
By the look of the predicted temps for Byron for the next couple days, should be some sun about at least, if you trust the weather people!
Welcome to the world of rod building!::) :-X
Cheers.

[pommy]

Thanks!

Will take the bugger to school tomorrow!:-/

Rob.

[pommy]

G'day all!

The rod had 8 hours in direct, strong sunlight today. There was a light breeze.

Epoxy still very sticky on most bindings.

Will repeat tomorrow.

Regards, in patience, Rob.

[Mark Fisher]

Rob, don't panic. Let the epoxy harden up. If it takes a few days who cares. When it is hard, lightly scuff the surface with a green scourign pad. Wipe over the area with metho. Don't go to mad with the metho and start rubbing hard because you will cause much bigger problems. Just enough to make sure the area is clean. Then apply your second coat. It is heat which causes the epoxy to go off. Firstly the chemical reaction and then heat from an external souce eg lighting, heating etc. Keep your fingers away from the epoxy on the rod. If you feel like touch testing, touch the remaining epoxy in your mixing container.

Mark

[Mark Fisher]

Gidday Mark ;)
Gees you must be a top bloke with a name like that.
Cheers Scott Fisher ;D
PS Your not my cousin Mark by any chance?? :-/

G'day Scott,
Mate I'll have to ask Dad if he had any illegitimate affairs up your way. We could be long lost brothers. :-[
Your right with your first comment, we must be good blokes though. LOL.;D
Have a good one.

Mark
Outback Rods

[pommy]

Greetings all!

The rod is out in the sun again. Patience is a virtue that I'm learning.

The guy in the local bait shop told me to pour cold water over the epoxy. Not sure if this sis to make it set quicker or to stop the process so the guides can be cut off. I'm NOT going to do this but am curious as to what effect cold water would have on the epoxy.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina.

[nigelr]

Hi Rob.
Personally I'd give that cold water procedure a miss.
Is the resin any drier this pm?
Cheers.

[roz]

Rob,

If it makes you feel any better, I'm having the same problem although to a lesser degree, patches on some of the guide bindings are tacky.

I became a little impatient and appplied a coat of 'light build' flex, that helped set some, but not all of the problem areas, there are still a few remaining bits.

My question to other rod builders here - Is is possible or advisable, to mix up epoxy at aprox 40/60. The 60 being hardner, to compensate for this problem????

thankx r.

[pommy]

G'day all!

The rod has now spent 2 days in the sun and seems, on very careful touch testing of one or two out of the way areas, to be setting in patches.

I've left it supported horizontally in the Science department prep room over the weekend, rather than cart it round, and will resume its sunbathing on monday.

Hey ho.....

Regards, Rob.

PS What would rain or cold water do to unset epoxy?

[nigelr]

Basically Rob, IMHO make a flippin' mess of it!
Roz, I'm no rodmaking expert, very, very far from it, but I've been a surfboard rider for over 40 years. In that time I've fixed literally hundreds of 'dings' and worked in the board making industry for a short while, albeit back in the '70's.
Sometimes we would make up a 'hot' mix with too much hardener, which would result in a steaming, sticky mess that would literally become very hot!
Totally useless for any practical purpose, a mix with too much hardener tends to be brittle, if it sets correctly at all.
From my own experience, I would not recommend changing the ratio. Even if the mix does go off, the properties of the end result would not be the same as a mix made to the correct ratio.
Having said this, I've found Erskines to be quite user-friendly, my own visual guestimates of the equal quantities of both parts have been sufficiently accurate never to create problems, and as such I don't use syringes, one less pain in the @ss when using epoxy.
Damn this rain and humidity!
Cheers.

[Mark Fisher]

Hi Roz, I'm with Nigel on this one. Tried a "hot mix" a few years back and it was a disaster. You also don't get the flow characteristics you need for a good job. The mix sets up to quick and is brittle not flexible. You also end up with a lot more cracks around the guide feet.

Regards
Mark

[roz]

Sounds logical... I must mention I mixed up some flocoat/gelcoat (not sure which product it was) for a ding in my boat, I had lost the instructions with the ratio, so had a stab in the dark.... It literally smoked!!! lucky for me it went off too quickly to be used.

Fortunately common sense prevailed, (unusual for me) & I made a phone call to the right people.

Getting back to the original question. How long should I wait before adding more resin... even if there are still tacky bits after a week of good drying conditions.

Sorry for hijacking your thread pommy :)

r.

[pommy]

That's OK mate!

It seems to have morphed into an epoxy Agony Aunt's page which has got to a good thing for a lot of rod builders.

Rob.

[Rodman]

Greetings all!

I have a Syder glass MT 8144 blank, grips, reel mount and guides. I have not built a rod before. Is there a thread that will show me how to start (or a video online)? I can't afford to buy books or DVDs on rod building at the moment.

Any help for a beginner would be most welcome.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina


Mate
Pay a visit to you council library and ask for a book called"rod Building" by Dale Clements.;D


Ken8-)

[pommy]

Bit late now after 88 posts! :P

Rob.

[OzRods]

Hi Pommy
If it has been day's and the finish has not set it probably wont. Mix up another batch of finish and apply that over the first coat that is still tacky. This will usually set off the first coat. You must have done something wrong usually
1: Did not mixed the finish well enough
2: Got the 50-50 mix wrong
3: Finish was not mixed will enough in the bottles before you mixed them together (some finishes seperate after sitting for a while usually the hardner)
I have had this happen a number of times (mostly when I first started rodbuilding) and the second coat usually always fixes the problem. I always mix at least 2 or 3 ml of each hardner and resin. Dont try any of the cold water or anything like that. Once you contaminate the wraps you will have to rewrap your guides. Trust me on this I have had it happen to many times it will work and save you a lot of work and when it dries you will never know that it happened. Most of the time it has happened to me is when I am in a hurry or I try to mix to little of the finish. Mixing a larger amount of finish gives you more room for error. Let me know how it goes

[OzRods]

Hi Roz
Sorry I missed your post. No mixing up a batch of finish that is not 50/50 it will most likely not set properly. It doesn't matter if you use 60% hardner. They make finish to be mixed 50/50 and thats how it should be done. Some finishes are better then others and you can get the mix a little off and it will still set up. But that is why I always mix at least 2 or 3 ml each of resin and hardner (so I have more room for error) and when I finish mixing it I mix it some more just to be sure. I would rather throw away a ml or two of finish then have to rewrap a rod.

[pommy]

Thanks for that Ozrods!

Will check the rod when I get to school tomorrow.

Not quite certain what I did wrong. I used 4 mL of each, measured in small test tubes. If anything there would have been slightly more hardener than epoxy as the epoxy was more viscous. Stirred just like Doc Ski on the DVD. Applied thinnish coats.

The epoxy had become quite treacly by the time I finished and i was worried that I was not going to be able to complete the top grip bind.

I was a bit disgruntled as I had used so much that I probably had 3 or 4 ML left that I then used as filler on some jewie lures.

As a Senior Chemistry teacher I'm not too bad on the prac. skills and am very careful with measurement.

However, it's been a bit of an adventure building the rod so far and I'm looking forward to completing it. the blank feels really good!

Regards, Rob.
Ballina.

[OzRods]

Dont worry about it I have done the same thing a lot of times and I sware I have done everything right. Sometimes I think that if you hold your tongue the wrong way or the planets aren't in proper alignment it just happens. If you know what I mean?

[Stuart]

It’s also important to remember when mixing small amounts that you shouldn’t let the coating part A or part B run down the side of what ever your mixing in. If you have either part A or B on the side of the mixing cup when you poor it in then that’s a % not in the mix where it should be. Always aim for the middle of what ever your mixing in.

Stu
Precision Rods

[pommy]

Wet, wet, wet! (Not the pop group).

Will apply next coat of epoxy over still sticky first coat when the next batch of hot sunny weather arrives. July?

Regards to all contributors and observers and fellow sufferers.

Rob.

[pommy]

Hey Finga! G'day mate!

Tried to pm you but your mailbox is full.

Thanks for your patience with lending me the rod lathe.

The weather forecast looks a little better and I'm hoping to put another epoxy coat over the first next week.

The first coat set on the 40 and 30 binds but not on the others.

Will let you know how things progress.

Thanks again, Rob.

[pommy]

Greetings all!

There is a weather window of opportunity. It's hot and not too humid.

Second layer of epoxy has just gone over the first that has still not set after 1 month.

Fingers crossed, She's rolling!

Regards, Rob.

[roz]

Greetings all!

There is a weather window of opportunity. It's hot and not too humid.

Second layer of epoxy has just gone over the first that has still not set after 1 month.

Fingers crossed, She's rolling!

Regards, Rob.

I'm betting you won't have any probs this time around Rob. Fingers crossed.

r.

[pommy]

Ohhhhhhh.......!!!!!!!!


Yesssssssss!!!!!!!!

Yesssssssss!!!!!!!

Yesssssssss!!!!!!!

But.......... for quality control, I think it needs another thin coat!!!!!!!

Tomorrow.

Rob.

[OzRods]

Hi Pommy
Did the thin coat over the tacky stuff fix it?

[pommy]

G'day mate!

Yes it did! Applying another thin coat today to cover one or two tiny areas next to a few of the guide legs that did not get covered properly.

Otherwise OK. Cross fingers for this last coat!

Regards, Rob.

[pommy]

Greetings all!

And to finish (hopefully) two questions.

First - what benefit is there to varnishing between the epoxied guides? Will one thin coat do? Is there any specific technique or tip that makes it easier or improves results?

Second - I have a 2cm length of rod blank protruding below the bottom grip. The but cap I bought was deeper than this. When I tried to cut it down I got a rough edge. Any tips for cutting a straight edge when shortening a but cap.

Don't want to mes things up at the last stage.

Regards, Rob.
Ballina.