Going to do my bit.

[PinHead]

As many on here are aware, I am against green zones of any form...far more for the EPA to fix than introduce Green Zones. I do not support the EPA proposal nor the MBAA proposal..I am in favour of sustainability via size and bag limits.
I have written the attached flyer and going to print them. I will be handing them out for a day at Raptis seafoods and then another day at Morgans and then at any other retail outlet I can think of.

[Leighton]

Just picked up a form from Tackle World, " Have your say form: Regulatory Impact Statemant and draft Public Benefit Test..Response Form"
just another way of letting your voice be herd.

[Moonlighter]

Terrific flyer, well done!

It all keeps the pressure up on the EPA, and can only help the cause.

Grant

[Chris Ryan]

Good stuff Greg. I hope you get a good response.

Chris

[PADDLES]

nice work.

[rufus_kev]

Against green zones in any form? thats a pretty sweeping statement. Surely you would concede the need for some pristine waters somewhere in the bay, without miles of busted off nylon,lead sinkers,and hooks all over the coral and without dozens of anchors pulverising it and ripping sponges out etc. yes pollution and runoff are huge problems but a little concession has to be made [ i think] that we are part of the problem to.

[PinHead]

Against green zones in any form? thats a pretty sweeping statement. Surely you would concede the need for some pristine waters somewhere in the bay, without miles of busted off nylon,lead sinkers,and hooks all over the coral and without dozens of anchors pulverising it and ripping sponges out etc. yes pollution and runoff are huge problems but a little concession has to be made [ i think] that we are part of the problem to.


Yes kev, I am against any form of green zone under the setup they are suggesting.

I would love pristine waters but no amount of green zones will give that until the EPA decides to do the hard work and solves issues with pollution and run off...like massive fines for anyone that lives on a water front block and uses fertilisers or anything else like that and even bigger fines for farmers that do the same on waterfront land. Also how about the industrial pollution.

nylon, lead and sinkers..do you think a green zone will alter that? nope..that will just be in a different area but no different.

now for the next bit..you won't like what I have to say about this but I am going to say it anyway...your comment about anchors pulverising and ripping the coral. There is only one reason a person could make that statement..ignorance. You want to make a comment about the green zones yet you have not made the effort to find out what they entail. The proposed green zones are no take zones..not no go zones... Please read the proposals before making comments on these.

What about Mud Island..it is not going to be in a green zone but it is approved as an area for dredges to get rid of their loads..not sure if this is presently the case but it is their proposal.

Once again..I am against green zones for the simple fact that they will achieve nothing except to make some green dopes feel good.

[Chris Ryan]

here here!

[Fafnir]

without miles of busted off nylon,lead sinkers,and hooks all over the coral

I didn't realise that currents don't flow through green zones. Only hope that any fish that busts off outside of a green zone does not enter any green zone until the hook has rusted away so the line won't enter the zone.

Pinhead, really well done on getting off your backside and doing something. Lots of people complain, but few make an effort. If only we could get a few hundred thousand to do the same.

[ziggy.]

Pinhead I think you are a hell of a guy for doing what you have done but don't point the finger at the farmers unless you know all the facts, that is what the EPA is doing to you and everyone else that fishers, and it dosn't feel good does it. I have an issue with you talking about big fines for farmers using fertiliser on waterfront land. If you have not worked it out by now I am one of these farmers and I am in this exact situation waterfront, so what do you propose we do?

It's a hard way to make a living and the Gov't is only making it harder for us as well as the fisher folks and we also love our fishing.

Fact is that Cane Growers (the organisation) conducted water quality testing on the Tully River and guess what - only changes came after the river passed the town reach. Now I don't know where you are from Pinhead but I was born and bred in the Redlands and yes I farmed there with my father overlooking the bay as he did with his father 4 generations in total, the fishing in the bay was fantastic, and as far as I am concerned the bay was prestine, no algal blooms. Yet from Wellington Pt to the South end of Redland Bay was wall to wall farms, along comes development and now you have pollution, so it seems to me there is your problem "development", not the farmers.

Don't get me wrong I am on the same team as you but don't make uneducated judgements about things like farmers and runoff, we try hard to stop runoff and have done for many years. Massive fines should be for people that wash their cars on the driveway and let the suds run in the drain or for people that feel the roadside is a good place to dump their rubbish. Please leave the farmers out of this.

If you like imported prawns and fish and I know you don't, then you will love your imported fruit and veg and believe me it is coming. Stop all farming on the east coast and I guarantee it won't make a fly s**t of difference to the reefs, bays, creeks and rivers but with Peter Garrett in there this day is now a possibility and it sure does concerm me.

Agforce is really concerned about the widening gap between the city and the farmers and statements like this only make our life harder.

Good luck with what you are trying to achieve, we give you our support. We have partisipated in the first rally and hopefully we will be at the next one. We were also involved in helping to organise a rally up here when the green zones were put in place last year, so we don't just sit around and do nothing, we are active too, we believe the EPA are out of control and won't stop until they stop fishing. The EPA effects our livelyhood and our leisure, which is farming and fishing.

[Jeremy]

without dozens of anchors pulverising it and ripping sponges out etc.

anchoring is not prohibited in green zones. Need to get some facts straight and use your head before typing.

Jeremy

[BigE]

good luck pinhead, i think your efforts will be in vain though. there are only 2 ways to stops this proposal from becomming reality.
#1 is votes ... & the sad reality is rec fisho's just dont have em or wont use them. it is a bitter pill but it is the truth.
#2 is $bucks$ ... this works two ways you can have alot of $$ and influence Govt. or you can start costing the bussiness community lots of dircect $$ in cash registers .. problem is you need to cost at least 7 zeros to register on Govt radar these days.
I dont think we have much chance.

REgards BigE

[PinHead]

better to try and fail than not try at all...but at least hopefully some of the general public might get an idea of whwta is going on.

As for votes..a fishing vote is a non entity..never has been and never will be and in Qld..unless there is some decent opposition then this Govt will do what they want..just take a look at Health again..just let some mental patient out and he kills his daughter..very sad indictment on the society we have..only 2 people to blame for the tragedy that has happened to that family..the premier and The Health Minister..the buck stops with them.

[Jeremy]

Pinhead, good to see you doing something. I have been on your case in the past over your view points and still don't agree with some of what you say, but great to see some initiative and action.

Thanks!

Jeremy

[PinHead]

Jeremy,

Just think how bloody boring it would all be if we all agreed on everything.

Nothing wrong with a good debate.

[Mike Delisser]

better to try and fail than not try at all...but at least hopefully some of the general public might get an idea of whwta is going on.

As for votes..a fishing vote is a non entity..never has been and never will be and in Qld..unless there is some decent opposition then this Govt will do what they want..just take a look at Health again..just let some mental patient out and he kills his daughter..very sad indictment on the society we have..only 2 people to blame for the tragedy that has happened to that family..the premier and The Health Minister..the buck stops with them.


Good work Greg, and I notice you still never let a chance go by.;) The RSPCA will be on to you soon if you continue to flog that dead horse.

I had a look at the hard copy of the draft plan and maps today, and a little misleading I think. The maps which I assume will be put up in bait shops, tackle shops, seafood outlets ect ect have the green zones marked but the map legend discribes them as "sand extraction" whatever that means. You have to look it up in the hard copy to learn that it means no fishing. No very helpful if Jo Public is looking at the poster (map) in a shop window. It should read "no fishing or extraction" if the idea is to inform the public of the proposed plan, or is this the whole idea.
Cheers
Mike

[Mike Delisser]

Opps, I now notice there are two maps in the kit and one of those has the green zones marked as "Marine National Parks" .
Cheers
Mike

[timddo]

A little bit from everyone all adds up in the end. If everyone was handing out flyers on the same day, wouldn't that be sweat.

[disorderly]

Been reading a fair bit from you regarding the future of Moreton bay of late,Greg.
Just wondering how your one man assault went down?
How many fliers did you distribute at how many locations, over what sort of time period and please give us an overview of the responses received.
Thought you were all hot air and full of it till I saw this thread,so good onya for actually getting out and constructively doing something other than talk.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

Scott

[supa29]

The funniest thing is that over half the guys whinging and pating you on the back voted this bias government in. we should be recording catch rates in the bay so to show the health of the bay. i think a incease in bag limits and a increase in legal lenghts eg. snapper bag 5 up to 10. size 35 up to 45 this alone will help the productivity and the substainablity of the bay and surrounding reef systems. i like your flyer and hope it helps the cause.

[lefty-green]

Lefty green

[webby]

So when and where do we invite the media

[PinHead]

So when and where do we invite the media

just send along some of the "journos" from B&B...that should do the trick.

[Boblee]

Great initiatives blokes but while it's good to can the EPA as they are the dept moving this garbage and you can rest assured that several depts including legal are watching this site, don't forget to concentrate some effort where it really counts.
The EPA reps are just the puppets and have no problem at all taking anything you care to throw at them.
The Governments both State and Federal are where the weaknesses lie, if you can do enough name and shame along with easy to understand information, including in the media they will eventually pull strings or at least give a chance for some practicality, even giving the opposition or anyone else with an axe to grind as much info will help.
State will deny any involvement or influence and so will Federal but if they are given enough stick they will react, of course it is extremely important to be polite and curteous, both to the media and all politicians but the buck stops with them.
It will not matter one iota in the end what your alternative proposals are unless you are putting pressure on the honcho who actually makes the final decision but at this time I would suspect it has already been made and the decision is a formality.
Whatever happens it's great to see some people standing up and accepting the challenge, good one, still think you need to be sponsoring a political party.

[disorderly]

Just wondering how your one man assault went down?
How many fliers did you distribute at how many locations, over what sort of time period and please give us an overview of the responses received.

Scott

Still waiting to hear,pinhead http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/tongue.gif.

[PinHead]

still waiting for permission from various outlets to place flyers in their premises..if not then i will take another approach.

not worth a cracker for anyone to respond to me..i want them to respond to the EPA.

[disorderly]

4 weeks to not gain permission to stand around and hand out a few flyers....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.
7th of march submissions close,dont they?.
"going to do my bit" you say...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif
Seems its all to easy to pretend to fight an invisible target through meaningless words on a keyboard I reckon.

[PinHead]

4 weeks to not gain permission to stand around and hand out a few flyers....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif.
7th of march submissions close,dont they?.
"going to do my bit" you say...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif
Seems its all to easy to pretend to fight an invisible target through meaningless words on a keyboard I reckon.

some of us also have businesses to run..but then it is also a lot easier to just sit at the keyboard and critcise..add the over 50 letters i have sent off...but all I can do is offer you the middle digit salute.

[disorderly]

..but then it is also a lot easier to just sit at the keyboard and critcise..add the over 50 letters i have sent off...

I think that there is a need for green zones in Moreton bay.Quite happy for it to unfold as it will no doubt happen.
The only person I am criticizing is you.
Do you really think your 50 letters are going to make one shred of difference to the outcome......I actually thought when you posted this thread that you were actually going to do something constructive other than your usual indignant babble.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/tongue.gif
But no....just plenty more hot air..http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif

[Fafnir]

I think that there is a need for green zones in Moreton bay.

Interested to know why?

[disorderly]

Interested to know why?

Not just green zones but elimination of trawlers,dredging,foreshore development and the introduction of other management tools(ie.increase in legal size of bream,snapper etc) that makes for a more sustainable system.
Your population will continue to grow and i think it's fair to say that this will have wide ranging impacts on everything from water quality to fish numbers.
I'm happy with the way the green zones are up here.
Don't know how its possible to quantify whether they are working or not but time will tell.

Scott

[Mike Delisser]

/http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5711/imageske9.jpg (http://imageshack.us) ;)

[PinHead]

Not just green zones but elimination of trawlers,dredging,foreshore development and the introduction of other management tools(ie.increase in legal size of bream,snapper etc) that makes for a more sustainable system.
Your population will continue to grow and i think it's fair to say that this will have wide ranging impacts on everything from water quality to fish numbers.
I'm happy with the way the green zones are up here.
Don't know how its possible to quantify whether they are working or not but time will tell.

Scott


you are happy with green zones but you do not know if they are doing anything ??? Then why have them ???

[disorderly]

you are happy with green zones but you do not know if they are doing anything ??? Then why have them ???

I have fished and dived in quite a few countries in Asia,central and south America and the carribean coast.
The 2 consistent themes I observed were lack of regulations regarding fishing and a distinct lack of fish.
Green zones may or may not work in real terms regarding increasing fish stocks but on a couple of levels at least they may be beneficial.
ie Help to placate an ever frenzied environmental lobby and even create more awareness for many about the need to minimize our impact on our inshore fisheries in the face of ever increasing population.

Pinhead,I think you have to face the fact that Green Zones are really going to be created in Moreton bay.
You will have no say over that.
Perhaps,just perhaps if hardcore fisherman can accept that and move on they may have some say over how many and where.

Scott

[flick]

This is a very simplified reason why i am against green zones.

Pretend the bay is a bath tub with 2 people in it.

Make half the tub a no go zone.

There is still 2 people in the tub. only now the pressure is doubled at one end.

How does that theory protect or preserve anything?????

Jim

[Fafnir]

Not just green zones but elimination of trawlers,dredging,foreshore development and the introduction of other management tools(ie.increase in legal size of bream,snapper etc) that makes for a more sustainable system.
Your population will continue to grow and i think it's fair to say that this will have wide ranging impacts on everything from water quality to fish numbers.
I'm happy with the way the green zones are up here.
Don't know how its possible to quantify whether they are working or not but time will tell.

Scott

When I first heard about Green Zones coming in, I was actually not against the idea. The idea of protecting some areas for future sustainability made a lot of sense, until I started researching a bit futher.

There is quite a bit of debate about whether or not 'spillover' actually occurs and to what extent. If spillover does not occur then any benefits I originally saw are out the window.

But further more, the major challenges of pollution and siltation cannot be addressed by green zones. Damage to the bottom from anchors can, and probably will still occur as vessels can still anchor in those areas. Boat strikes on turtles can still occur as green zones are not exclusion zones, most are not even go slow zones.

Yes, stopping commercial trawling in those areas will probably help limit the damage caused to corals etc. But given that many of the species in the bay a migratory, then it's hard to say that a green zone offers them much protection. Size limits, bag limits and closed seasons would seem to be a more effective alternative.

But the whole idea of green zones being there to preserve the biodiversity of the bay goes out the window when you see that the EPA have approved dredging for the 2nd Brisbane runway adjacent to one of the proposed new green zones!!! How many recreational anglers would it take to come even close to that amount of damage?

So the more I looked into it the more I became convinced that green zones are simply extremists getting their own way at the expense of everyone else. I am certain that the yellow zones of today are the proposed green zones of tomorrow, and that green zones that are in close proximity today will be aimed to be joined in future reviews. Therefore, regardless of whether or not the current proposed green zones have any impact on me or not, I am dead against them, because I know the next lot will have a greater impact on me. That and the fact that all they are going to do is punish the rec angler and do little to nothing to help the overall health of our ever more polluted bay.

Scott, agreeing with the ones that are proposed now will simply lead to more, and harsher ones in the future. That's why protesting now is so important. Even though people are saying it's a done deal, the next one isn't. I see the resistance that we put up now being crucial to the fight we will have on our hands in 5 to 10 years time.

Fight hard now, try and get the best outcome we can now (which I believe is the MBAA's proposal), and then actually put together a strategy and fighting fund to combat the next lot of reviews.

[disorderly]

So the more I looked into it the more I became convinced that green zones are simply extremists getting their own way at the expense of everyone else. I am certain that the yellow zones of today are the proposed green zones of tomorrow, and that green zones that are in close proximity today will be aimed to be joined in future reviews.


I understand that this is one of the most frightening aspects of the whole issue.
ie. Once it starts ,where will it stop!!...unfortunately nobody has the answer for this...and it will be an ongoing concern for many.

I have no answers for you.I was only asking a simple question of pinhead who was being applauded for boldly proclaiming how he was going to dedicate a number of days handing out flyer's and in effect liaising with the public and helping to educate them about the issues at hand..
This is a great idea!!....... just wondered if it was all talk....http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif

Scott

[Fafnir]

This is a great idea!!....... just wondered if it was all talk....;)

Well hopefully it wasn't. I am hoping that the more we fight now, the greater the chance we will have in the future.

[PinHead]

I have fished and dived in quite a few countries in Asia,central and south America and the carribean coast.
The 2 consistent themes I observed were lack of regulations regarding fishing and a distinct lack of fish.
Green zones may or may not work in real terms regarding increasing fish stocks but on a couple of levels at least they may be beneficial.
ie Help to placate an ever frenzied environmental lobby and even create more awareness for many about the need to minimize our impact on our inshore fisheries in the face of ever increasing population.

Pinhead,I think you have to face the fact that Green Zones are really going to be created in Moreton bay.
You will have no say over that.
Perhaps,just perhaps if hardcore fisherman can accept that and move on they may have some say over how many and where.

Scott

I realise that the green zones are probably a foregone conclusion but that does not mean I have to like or support them in any way shape or form.

I do not have a problem with green zones when, only when, accurate data is recorded for the entire Bay with regards to the habitat, water quality, fish stocks etc etc...the preamble to the proposal as issued by the EPA describes Moreton Bay as being "unique"..ie..one off..different to anywhere else, therefore why are they using data from other places?
The main aim of the proposed green zones is habitat protection..how can you protect the habitat when boats will still be permitted to drive through it..drop their anchors and rip everything off the bottom of the so called protected habitat..if they were serious about it then they would be total no go zones..until then it is all just hypocritical carp.

don't worry..I will be distributring flyers..still plenty of time left..no need to panic.

[PinHead]

And Scott..if you think it is all talk..that is fine by me..i can assure you I have never lost a night's sleep over what anyone may think of me..totally irrelevant in my life.

[Mike Delisser]

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8572/imagesdi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us) ;)

[Taroona]

I have been watching this thread with interest. I grew up in Hobart and I can recall my mum going to the docks and buying scallops and barracuda. anyway over time the scallops disapeared. Rules changed as they are here in moreton bay. bag limits and size where enforced. they even have confisation of equipment. I recall on many occasions going to the SE of the derwent below huonville and the last person you would expect to see was a fisheries inspector, well they turned up everywhere. and you know fisherman rec and commercial knew that they would so habits changed.

you only needed the few stories in the paper about cray fisherman loosing million dollar boats to realise that the govt was serious. but over time people still go fishing and they obey the rules

Every one seems to be scared that they won't be able to go fishing anymore, well get over it life moves on.

bag limits and size is whats needed, but there needs to be an increased number of fisheries inspectors to make sure that everyone is playing the game

[Chris Ryan]

another newbie with a pro green stance..........well well well.....fancy that.

[Taroona]

interesting isn't that if you have an opinion that isn't the "norm" then you must be a greenie

[castlemaine]

another newbie with a pro green stance..........well well well.....fancy that.
Seems to be a rush lately to get on this site. Glad I got in before the rush;D

[Chris Ryan]

interesting isn't that if you have an opinion that isn't the "norm" then you must be a greenie

Sorry mate - thought you would've read the sarcasm in my post. :-/

[Poseidon]

interesting isn't that if you have an opinion that isn't the "norm" then you must be a greenie

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion otherwise it would be a pretty boring debate.;) ;)

As Fox Mulder said.........Trust No-one.

[Mike Delisser]

still waiting for permission from various outlets to place flyers in their premises..if not then i will take another approach.

not worth a cracker for anyone to respond to me..i want them to respond to the EPA.

Any action yet Pinhead????

[PinHead]

Any action yet Pinhead????

I have handed out approx 400 flyers so far.

[disorderly]

I have handed out approx 400 flyers so far.

Glad to hear it Greg.
What sort of response have you been getting?.

Scott