Cruiser 200 series

[rockfisho]

I had a look at the recently released land cruiser 200 series the other night.

My god has this this thing got grunt or what!!!!

4.5 L v8 twin turbo deisel giving 652 Nm torque.

I was drooling over the keyboard. ;D ;D

cheers

Owen

[BenDover]

Mehhh, Thats not much for a 4.5 V8 twin turbo deisel. Im not really impressed by deisels these days. They havnt evovled much over the last 10 years apart from (common rail) Im off to germany in a weeks time. They have deisels that can do 200 mph. I will be having a very hard, long, look at these deisels and find whats different and makes them tick. Maybe have some handy info for all the deisel heads in here.
BD

[sharkymark2]

200 mph in a land cruiser :) mmmmmmmmmmmm near death experience I expect ;).

[ozscott]

Its a bit fat tub of lard....getting fatter....supersize me please....ohh and can you slip me an absurd amount of money for the privilege of it

[gawby]

The 200 series is being released on monday.
My next load is with them on monday and carn't load them before that because Toyota said.
Graeme

[luckyone]

At $87.000.00 On The Road They Have Got To Be Dreaming

[BenDover]

WHATTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $87 000. yeah dreamers alright. They are just pricing themselves out of the market. WHO WOULD SPEND THAT ON A NEW 4BIE?? You can build what ever you want from scratch with all your personal mods and stats, and still come in way under that. And youd have the perfect truck.

A guy my mate knows (who wants to drag me) has just spend $40k on his 80 series. Thats ontop of buying it. And its very very very nice. Alloy 350, custom paint and suspension, locked up, new custom interior, stereo, sat nav everything. And would crap all over the new cruiser.

Mine will be about the same $60k when im finally finished aswell. But for that, you get every toy you ever wanted and have a perfect truck.

[PinHead]

why would you want any car that can do 200mph..no where in this country to do those speeds...bloody roads would be enough to make you lose control.

[PinHead]

even at 87k they will sell heaps of them.

[TheRealAndy]

I call that model cruiser a managers car (its a rich mans toy). If I were going to spend a big wad of cash on a cruiser it would be on the 70, mind you I think they are just as expensive

[chisel]

They must be priced correctly - they have a 6 month waiting list already, I've heard. (Similar waiting lists for 70 series and Prado diesels).

Is there any serious competition? The patrol looks seriously tired now with half the power and half the torque in an engine which continues to blow up. Pajero/Prado a bit small (and check the pajero forums for problems with particulate filters) - they're both nearly $60k on the road too for diesel GXL-like models. Discovery? Almost as expensive and they're a landrover after all.
There's nothing else that comes close and Toyota will sell heaps.

[Spaniard_King]

If you go thru a broker they still have the new 200 series available from the first shipment and can get into one for just under 70K for the v8 petrol...I think your 87 is for the TD

[ozscott]

Chisel - The D3 will still be likely to be better off road and will handle better on road even though outtorqued and outpowered in the TD form (not V8 though which still goes to the Jag V8 powered LR) - I am content to wait to reviews in Aus 4WD Monthly etc...

[MY-TopEnder]

Toyota have got to be joking!!!

Base model GXL is $79,990 in auto with the twin turbo diesel. You can buy a TI Patrol for $70k that has a heck of alot more options standard, a ladder chassis, and solid front and rear diffs.

There is no way i would pay $80k for a base model truck with independant front suspension... ever.

You're right though Greg... they will still sell a heap of them. And i bet you'll find most of them will be leases through ABN customers or fleet buyers.

[BenDover]

PINHEAD - I would never do 200 mph or want to. But they have the technoligy to make a deisel faster than a normal car. Thats what im interested in. Might even convert me back to deisel. mmm naaa :). I know they will sell heaps of 200's. But like my topender said, i personally would never pay that for an inferier 4x4, independant front toy 4x4.

We have always had 4x4's in my family all my life. And my dad did pay 80K for a new 80 series, picked it up and left for a 2 week 4x4 holiday upto cooktown and the cape the next day. That was worth the 80k. But not these toys.

I have a gu patrol i just spend 25k putting a worked 5.7 gen 3 into. I wanted to buy a new gu. But i drove it and it was sooo damn slow. I got 1 3 years old and just out of warrantee for 31K. Craps all over a new 1. I think patrol (although underpowered) is the best package. But im learning more and more and now i think you cant beat an 80 series cruiser. Very well made truck and a hell of alot smoother than my gu. All its components are easy and simple and work very very well in standard form. apart from lsd's and a few things which youd get lockers for anyway.
Im replacing things (control arms etc) in my patrol left right and centre to get it the way i want it. But my mate with the 80 series, dont have to change much at all.
My 2 bobs worth

[Reel Blue]

Toyota will have no trouble selling the new cruisers. I have a turbo diesel cruiser with IFS and to suggest it is a toy is a joke. It is more comfortable than my VZ Commodore with lighter steering, better brakes, less road noise and less bumps. It makes a patrol look very agricultural. On the road and on gravel roads its handling is far more predictable than the rigid front axles found in the standard diesels and older models. I have lived in Western Queensland for the last three years and never found the vehicle wanting in any way and a lot of that was off the tarmac. Obviously the rigid front axle will be better if you are climbing extremely rough terrain covered in boulders and washouts where ultimate wheel articulation is required. Not too many people want or need this. (However, many may be surprised where you can take an IFS cruiser.) The majority will go for the smooth ride, people capacity, long range touring capability, predictable handling, power and towing capacity with economy. (Turbo diesel anyway)

[BenDover]

Yes, i agree. Highway and dirt roads, and very mild 4x4ing. It all comes down to what you want to do with your 4bie. But there is no way an ifs can go where i want it too. And i hate having limitations on where i can go and what i can do, after having owned an ifs. BUT... I still think toyota or all company's should be giving people the oportunity to choose if they want an ifs or live axle (especially for that kind of money) but all we have these days is HERE'S AN IFS 4X4 IN DIESEL ONLY, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT. And we are running out of options. Thats why i have to strip down a 4x4 and spend loads to rebuild it the way i want it.

It sucks...

[MY-TopEnder]

I personally wouldn't be surprised where an IFS Cruiser would go... i know from first hand experience that Toyota do not make a very good IFS Setup. Their diffs are weak, and travel is very restrictive. I've had to go to the extent of fitting air lockers to an IFS Surf/4Runner to get it to keep up with a GQ Patrol of a similar age.

The other major factor is ground clearance. Although they're on par from the factory, a 2" lift is about as much as you can get under a Cruiser without major modification. You can easily get 3" under a Patrol reasonably easy.

I do agree though it comes down to what you want it for... If you're towing a van around the country... sure a 200 will do it better than a Patrol, but if its getting out on the weekend and putting it up some fire trails or medium tracks then a Patrol will go further stock every time.

Not to mention i'd rather bend panels on a $60,000 truck than a $80,000 truck.

[BenDover]

The only thing you can do with ifs. Is take out all your bump stops to get a bit more travel/ shocks to suit. And for ground clearance! fit a superlift (which drops your wishbone arms down under the diff and gives you no more travel than standard.) The first bit of suspension travel needed and its screwd. And ive seen 3 tip and roll due to wheels in the air. They where not impressed either. IFS are deffinately toys in my books. And i will never own 1 again.

[hungry6]

I was quietly looking forward to see the specs of the new 200series, the $$ doesn't seem to worry me, but the thing was that they have been going on about the towing capabilty of the new V8 diesel. at 3500kgs it not really impressive when the old 100 series have been doing it for a number of years.
Well I better get my arse down to VW and order a toureg. All the waiting for simply hot air and more $$$$.
But I have to say they have taken to the complaints about cruiser service cost though.

[the lobster]

I don't like buying into a toyota vs nissan debate, but I'll say this. No other brand can match the reliability of Toyota. It's as simple as that. That's why Toyota sell more cars than anyone else, that's why Toyota's cost more and that's why people are still prepared to pay extra. You can argue as much as you like about capability, IFS and the rest of it, but at the end of the day a Toyota is much more likely to get you back from wherever you've been than any other brand and that's why they sell so many cars.


Enough of that. $80k is a lot for a new cruiser. I'd be much more inclined to get a new 70 series wagon (which replaces the STD 100 series) starting at $53 990 for a base model and $57 490 for a GXL, both with the V8 TD. Not as pretty as a 200 but a hell of a lot better value IMHO.

matt

[gawby]

I delivered some the other night at Gladstone and drove one down the street and then into the holding compond and what a treat.
Anyone could drive one of these without any problems.
Very good vision all round, light as a feather steering and finished well inside and out.
The way they are opioned up i think you would be getting a fab vehicle.
Garry, your wife would have no trouble driving this around and you would have a real good vehicle to tow your new boat with.
Graeme

[ozscott]

Look - if your life depends on the reliability all of the time...ie doing long lonely outback runs for a living then you would have to go the vehicle that is most reliable and still pretty competent off road...but I like a vehicle to have soul and steering that allows you to feel the road and until TOYO can engineer a big dollop of each into their cars, I wont be going there.

[Noelm]

not too sure how valid all the "hard core" 4X4 people's opinions on Independant Front Ends are, there was a time when even your "Family" car had a rigid rear end, but that changed and I doubt that anyone would accept anything BUT Independant now, same thing will go for the front end, the "I will never change and I know what I am doing" people will just fade away as more and more Manufacturers "keep up" (even Nissan Maybe) then you can all spend $1,000's on converting your newer model 4X4 to the "ols style" front end you liked, but over time, there will be no option, they will ALL be the same, anyone can sprout how this model has a weak diff or that model has a dodgey whatever, but overall, almost all NEW things become the standard over time, like Power steering, who would not want that? or air cond, who would rip it out because thier old 1970 model did not have it?

[Grunter71]

Just read through the specs. I am disappointed with the towing weight. I had heard via the rumour mill that the towing weight limit was going to be over 4t. No reason to look at replacing the old one now.

[FNQCairns]

Nothing wrong with the IFS cruiser it does very well what it is designed for but it does fail off road and not just from a hardcore standpoint either. It is what it is, an urban assault vehicle, with all the mod cons bought 99% of the time by those that will never see much more than a well kept fire trail or the beach when being adventurous, so certainly no not a Toy but it is what it is, no use pretending otherwise.
I would love to justify one for shopping/towing/sightseeing but I cannot, if I would feel uncomfortable having an IFS as my backup car on a meduim hard offroad wander for a week I couldn't justify doing the same to another, they are what they are.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

I guess in a roundabout way, that is what I was getting at, but I still think that market forces and Customer needs (from the majority) will see other Manufacturers follow suit, it is just a fact of life, changes come, we hate it, we modify what we get to make it more like our old "thing" but it will change, we just have to change with it, regardless of how much it is against our personal needs, the Majority of these Vehicles will never see the dirt!

[PinHead]

I call that model cruiser a managers car (its a rich mans toy). If I were going to spend a big wad of cash on a cruiser it would be on the 70, mind you I think they are just as expensive

an 87k car is not a rich mans toy..how much are the BMW, Merc, Audi and Porsche AWD..plenty of them around the place.

a crappy Holden with a HSV badge can set you back about that much.

[Blackened]

G'day

Greg, have u had a play with the porsche cayenne?

I detail one, have a bit of a drive... very very nice, something about a porsche, you just get excited when you turn the key... same happens with the carerra :D

Dave

[MY-TopEnder]

not too sure how valid all the "hard core" 4X4 people's opinions on Independant Front Ends are, there was a time when even your "Family" car had a rigid rear end, but that changed and I doubt that anyone would accept anything BUT Independant now, same thing will go for the front end, the "I will never change and I know what I am doing" people will just fade away as more and more Manufacturers "keep up" (even Nissan Maybe) then you can all spend $1,000's on converting your newer model 4X4 to the "ols style" front end you liked, but over time, there will be no option, they will ALL be the same, anyone can sprout how this model has a weak diff or that model has a dodgey whatever, but overall, almost all NEW things become the standard over time, like Power steering, who would not want that? or air cond, who would rip it out because thier old 1970 model did not have it?

If you want strength, independant just can't cut it. Front end wise there is just too much load on CV's as opposed to a solid diff which can make use of much bigger CV's.

There are also rumours around that Nissan will be going to IFS in their new Patrol.

You're right though... its what the market demands. People want a 4WD that will drive like their Holden Calais.

For the record too, i've removed ALOT of the electronic crap from the Surf i have... if its electronic, it'll either break, play up, or cost you a fortune. I've gone back to manual locking hubs, ditched the air con, and removed the electronic suspension crap.

[bugman]

HHHMMMM,

Landrover TDV6 still tows over 4t and would ride better on road and off rode out of the box than any of the majors.

But having said that if you want the SE with the three stage air suspension and a few other bits and pieces - you're not gunna get much change out of $85k.

Brett

[ozscott]

Mate - my 95 Disco is rated to 4000kg but I think that your D3 is restricted to 3500kg as is my 02 Disco.

Cheers

[BenDover]

Yep all the new 4bies will go to ifs. Which does drive just like a car on the road. Im not even too concerned about cv's or diff strenght of the ifs's. It more so suspension travel. If your rear suspension isnt set up. Then you are really screwed, even on the smallest amount of travel needed. Lots of reving, spinning, and wheels in the air. Even with lockers you run the risk of rolling.

So youd be pissed if you bought a new cruiser and took it in the bush, and got stuck on the track to even make it into the bush. An an old solid axle front goes past you and over it effortlessly. My old ifs, i had to park it and ride in my mates trucks. Even flogging the crap out it... i had to get a run up and hit it at about 40k's and try and bounce or jump over it. They are really really crap.

Wreckers with make a fortune when patrol converts to ifs. Complete front ends with double in price.

[Noelm]

kind of makes you wonder why we are still not driving in cars with Transverse leaf springs, mechanical drum brakes, three speed non synchro gearboxes and crank handles to start the thing doesn't it?

[Dan5]

Yes i think that the 70 series wagon is more the offroad 4x4 and the 200 series is the boat tower/urban tracktor type set up it's a smart move from tojo to do this it give's more options to suit peoples need's.Instead of a one car does everything attitude you can now get something more specialised to suit your need's.Dan.....

[MY-TopEnder]

kind of makes you wonder why we are still not driving in cars with Transverse leaf springs, mechanical drum brakes, three speed non synchro gearboxes and crank handles to start the thing doesn't it?

Yep, but thing is, well maintained they're still going.

A new car these days is a disposable item at 5 years old.


Bendover... you can get an IFS truck to flex reasonably well... i've set up my Surf so its got both swaybars removed, front bump stops shortened, extra length shocks, and a torsion bar wind up with the diff dropped an inch.

The rear has no swaybar, 2" constant load springs, an extra 6" of travel out of the shocks and extended brake line.... in its current form, on a travel ramp i can get the rear wheel 740mm off the ground and still have the front on the ground. It can flex, but i've had to spend upwards of $3k on suspension and so on to do that. With a set of Air lockers front and rear, there is not many places that slow it up now... you may be familiar with Ormeau... if you are then you may know the chicken track. Pulled it.

[BenDover]

Yep, i know the track. But havent been there in years. I did pretty much the same as you. Basically because thats all you can do with the ifs. But i removed my bump stops all together and even cut the metal bumpstop mount off (the 1 that allows it to drop). I had my bars wound up and when 4x4ing could hear steel on steel, so i just cut it off. You know the bolt you use to wind your bars up. Check yours accassionally as i broke the weakly welded nut it goes to. Ripped it free from the chassi. Its a mission try to get the welder in there.

740 hey. not bad. But still not as easy as if you had 1100. :) my hilux used tip and roll from side to side so much id get sea sick

[tez1]

I have a gu patrol i just spend 25k putting a worked 5.7 gen 3 into. I wanted to buy a new gu. But i drove it and it was sooo damn slow. I got 1 3 years old and just out of warrantee for 31K. Craps all over a new 1. I think patrol (although underpowered) is the best package

check this out bendover http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=97d_1195234563
http://biocaddy.blogspot.com/
talk about economy&horsepower from a diesel

tez

[BenDover]

Thats awsome... Thanks tez1. But i bet its mostly turbo and timming work. And if so is it still nice to drive every day. eg, big turbo lag or does it kick in too hard?? I wonder what litreage that diesel is? 1000 hp is amazing from a 4bie though. The 1's ive heard about and seen on tv are naturally aspirated diesels (and fast as). They have built 1 to do 200mph

I leave for europe tonight. Im going to get 1 and take straight on the autobahn and see what it can do.. :)
Aufwiedersehen

[tez1]

hi bendover,not sure on the turbo lag i found this on his site..
The Duramax Diesel Engine conversion for Hummer H1 and H2 consists of a 6.6 liter Duramax Diesel engine specially matched with an Allison heavy-duty transmission in your choice of either 5 or 6 speed and selectable 2 wheel / 4 wheel drive heavy duty transfer case. The base conversion package starts out with 495 horsepower and with performance upgrades and modifications can be increased to 950 horsepower. The biggest gain from the conversion is the outstanding fuel mileage from 9 to 12 MPG in a stock Hummer to 18 to 26 MPG - which is unheard of. they qoute about $30,000 u.s with say a 200 series cruiser about $120,000 aus. would be heaps cheaper to go to states and buy and frieght back to oz..plus conversion to rhd.ahhh to be loaded the toys you could buy.

tez

[sea raider]

Sounds like quite a lot of you guys have driven the new 200 series and so are quite well versed in its abilities!!

[Noelm]

eeyouch, now that hurts!

[Noelm]

only thing I can add to that is anyone who tows 4 tonne with a Discovery has rocks in their head, don't care how legal it is, tried it with 3 tonne once, and that was a joke!

[ozscott]

Its wheelbase is too short for serious long distance 4 tonn. But in terms of outright strength and not breaking it (or giving it an extra few inches in length) they they clearly have what it takes (bloody strong box chassis rails which if anyone has seen one without the body on is pretty awesome. I regularly tow 2 tonn and its sweet. My brother has towed 3 tonn with his 94 and he reported that it went well. I too would not like to tow 4 tonn with my 95, but if I had to its legal.

Cheers

[ozscott]

...ohh 3 tonn would be easy in a D3 and 3.5 should still be a doddle. I have to admit that given its wheelbase, increased weight (significant) and 6 speed married to torquey and powerful engines the D3 should be a lot more comfortable than the earlier series at the upper end (and the D3 has consistently won, with a large margin, the Aust 4wd Monthly tow tests against Cruiser, Patrol, Pajero etc).

Cheers

[Noelm]

never said it cannot be done or that it is not Legal, but I have been in one towing 3 tonne on the Freeway, and I reckon that with another 30% it would never be anything that could be considered safe, with 3 tonne it barely had the power or weight to make it anything more than a once off necessity, strangely enough, the guy who owned it, sold it and got a Patrol, may not be as legal, but seemed to do it much more comfortable and SEEMED much more stable and capable.

[ozscott]

It could be wheel base or state of suspension tune as to ride etc because the Disco is the same weight as a GQ (dont know which mod of each you are referring to Noel). As for power and torque the D1s were down compared to the GQ but the D2 is more powerful and has the same torque at the same revs (my brother in law with one and I have compared notes before - we have drive each others vehicles - both manual and are of the view that there is nothing in it). I dont doubt what you say its just that the only way to do a proper comparo is where they are both either new, or have been both maintained to the same standard if second hand (for example I know with my 95 that if the rotor button is old it looses about 25% power but still feels smooth - bloody V8s!).

Cheers

[Noelm]

the Discovery was about 1 year old and the Patrol was then purchased new, so I guess (sort of) both vehicles where considered to be new (kind of), and no mods to either vehicle, the "tow" in question was a big trailer Boat and it just seemed that the "disco" was on the brink of disaster but the Patrol seemed and I repeat seemed to be much more balanced and capable, as far as from a dead stop on the ramp, the discovery was a low range option only, no way it was going to go, without a major clutch "malfunction" but the Patrol was OK in just 1st gear, but this of course is a ratio thing only!

[Noelm]

Oh I forget to add this was I guess 3 years ago, so that will give the indication of the Models

[ozscott]

No worries - that would be the GU which put on a lot of weight and power and torque over the GQ. I dont know whether it was diesel or petrol - but the 4.2TD, 4.7 petrol and 3.0 TD (to a lesser extent) had some real herbs. I wouldnt doubt that with such a big load the extra weight of the Patrol and bigger motor would have made it the better of the two. Were they both petrol?

[Noelm]

yes, both Petrol, the guy still has the Patrol and the Boat, and still tows it around, but is not too fussed about long trips, even with the Patrol.

[ozscott]

Yep - can understand that. Big weights are not a lot of fun even with bigger 4WDs (the D1 and D2 were considered mid sized - although at the upper end of that class). I have a mate who tows a 2.5 tonn Carribean with his Disco 1 Tdi at times and his worked over F150 at others - he dislikes it with either. Funny thing is that he just moved a lot closer to the water and takes his boat out less now than when he had to tow for 45mins compared to 10 mins now.

I am OK with mine, but if I ever went much bigger I would factor in the costs of racking I think (cant see myself ever selling my old Seafarer Vagabond which suits the kids and me nicely). I see some people with 23-24 foot pocket cruisers that must weight 3tonn on trailers and wonder if they get sick of towing them...and a couple I see never move so I guess they do!

Cheers

[Noelm]

Sounds like quite a lot of you guys have driven the new 200 series and so are quite well versed in its abilities!!
never got much respose from this little statement! so where are all the 200 series owners that are reporting on it's inadequate capabilities??

[Spaniard_King]

never got much respose from this little statement! so where are all the 200 series owners that are reporting on it's inadequate capabilities??

Noelm,

There all still awaiting delivery as I beleive there has been a technical hitch keeping them from releasing it :o

[hungry6]

Be interesting as to how the economy figures stacks up after a few has hit the rd. Prolly still get one in the new year when a few teething problem have arised and sorted out by then I hope. I'm still frustrated by the 3.5 tonne towing capacity thought.

[Noelm]

OK so all the experts who know they are crap, have yet to even be in one!! very interesting, and as I mentioned way way back, I reckon 3.5 tonne is more than enough to tow, don't care if it is legal or not, when or if "something" happens, and the towing weight exceeds the Car weight by a good margin, then drama is just a matter of time! (I reckon anyway)

[Reefmaster]

I have seen 3 200 series already in the past two weeks. My missus took a pic on her phone 3 weeks ago of one sitting beside her in traffic.

I'm with Noelm. Experts everywhere::)

Like any new model car their will no doubt be teething problems although the 100 series was very good from word go. I work for an Automotive Technical Data company which is world wide and the least amount of enquires and calls are on Toyota's. As far as Landcruisers go it seems only now that we are getting a very little calling for 80 series info which is pretty good considering their age. The 100 series we barely here much about. No doubt there are problems on these vehciles but the issue's are minor and the fixes are straight forward.

Greg

[sea raider]

At $87.000.00 On The Road They Have Got To Be Dreaming

RRP on the last of the 100 series GXL auto Turbo Diesel was $75500.

RRP on the same model in the 200 series is $79990.

Do you really think that is an excessive price rise???

[sea raider]

Its a bit fat tub of lard....getting fatter....supersize me please....ohh and can you slip me an absurd amount of money for the privilege of it

The 200 Series is just 65mm longer and 18mm wider than the 100 series, it's not actually that much bigger.

[ozscott]

Its a personal thing I guess. I have never liked the excess of the 100 series (save for when towing massive weights) and this one just keeps getting bigger (and heavier).

Cheers

[mini696]

It is definately a "4wd" but by no means is it an "offroader". I was able to have a good look over one at Toyota (even under one on a lift) and there are so many issues I can see without even trying.

For a car which costs $105,000 plus on road (top of the range diesel) you would still need to spend another $20,000 on it to do any form of serious offroading.

There are plastic bits everywhere underneath, things like the transfer case guard will basically act as a shovel, there are pipes and other things under the sills that would be caught easially unless rock sliders were installed, the rear shocks mount very low on the bottom of the wheels (and sitck a fair way out from the wheel itself), the spare wheel is exposed under the car.

The list goes on.

For the price... Not worth it

[Noelm]

OK so I guess you own an ex Army 8 wheel drive then?? because that is a "true" off roader, never seen any plastic on a Patrol or Discovery? no pipes or hoses anywhere under them? I must have seen the wrong models then! I might add I do not own one, but I like to see all sides of any "brand debate" put forward!

[ozscott]

....to a point Noel - I have been under mine many times (both my series one and series ii Disco) and have crunched them down over many hard obsticles that have broken IFS tie rods etc in front and behind me on one memorable trail and never never done any damage to components because they are tucked up. You dont see pipes in either mod hanging anywhere down on a Disco. They eschew bash plates because its all steel box chassis and box cross members as far as the eye can see....then there are the live axles....

Cheers

[ozscott]

For a company - toyo- that spends a lot of money on adds showing their vehicles going bush they have do have some questions to answer. If you look at any 4WD mag back in the series II disco days - 99-04 they have always said that the bushability of the Discos was the best out of all brands. When it comes to tucking stuff up and having what one articles described as an engineer gong mad with railway girders, whatever other criticisms might be made, having anything but a well designed and strong underbody is not one of them

[ozscott]

...although there is no doubt that the D3 does not have the same integrity underneath as the series 1 and 2 discos.

Cheers

[Noelm]

I guess I am just "having a dig" because I can, it just sort of "gets up my shorts" becuase people are saying a certain model is crap, no good off road and all sorts of thing, but have NEVER been in one EVER, one guy has looked underneath one! and that makes him an "expert", I do not say that they may not be crap, they could be the best thing off road since god knows what! but just lets wait and see, until someone who actually owns one gives us an honest, unbiased report on how the thing does go! does not matter what it is, outboards with a 2 stroke V 4 stroke, Ford V Holden, Toyota V Nissan, Dunlop V Cooper, there is never a clear winner, because most are so "brand loyal" that their tunnel visioned rose coloured glasses will not let them see anywhere but straight ahead to their own brand!! almost all products are good (within reason) and you could praise the virtues of your item, but there is a dozen others out there who hate it because it is not their "chosen one"

[ozscott]

I agree with that mate to a large extent. I know that in terms of outright off road bushability and bashability the IFS cars (including the Disco 3) are not the match of the live axle vehicles. Having said that all things are a compromise and the IFS ones should be more comfortable and handle better on road. Personally I would like to drive the 200 series and compare it to a D3 because I am considering scrolling over my Lease car (a Disco 2) and I am not adverse to a change of vehicle, so long as the Toyo has a good feel about it when driving. In the past I thought that felt a bit clinical like a large Camry - thats wholly a personal thing because many people dont care about it, but have always liked driver's cars.

I am keen to drive the Twin Turb Diesel cruiser because its torque is massive and might well cover its bulk well.

I did make a crack at its weight, but if I end up in a heavier boat at some stage that massive weight might work out well.

Cheers

[mini696]

Yes Noel... ::)

I didn't claim it was "crap", I didn't claim I was an "expert", I didn't claim any loyalty to a particular brand. If I did you would know I like Toyota's and Holdens. I never said it was crap offroad, I wouldn't know because I haven't even driven one on the road.

However... Toyota is claiming this to be the "Earths Greatest 4wd" and just at a glance there a many, many obvious things that could be better. Yes those things would make the car cost more, but for a hundred grand surely they could address some of those issues (How hard would it be to put a slight kick up on the transfer case guard?). It wouldn't take much to to make a consumer like me look twice at this car. They can make a toolbox easially accessable in the tailgate, but they can bend a piece of steel plate.

I would never claim any other 4wd previously released to be perfect.

[FNQCairns]

Yes lot's of assumptions but they are based on basic mechanical understanding, IFS is what it is....why would the next vehicle utilising the design be any different??...it wouldn't.
At the very least the vehicle would be touted in marketing as a wonder if there was any difference to speak of
Same goes with the rest of this vehicle, they are following a design concept, a large and powerfull soft-roader is the design perameter, if they were to change that perameter the vehicle will drive less 'refined' and scare away the very market the design was intenrd to woo.

The 200 will be a big. powerfull. comfortable, quiet and refined for what it is designed for ....bit like an all grownup BMW x5 :).

Would someone hitch a camper trailer and head off to where they may not see another person for 3 days??? Too right they will, they can afford the 100k for the car then they can also afford a sat phone without a stretch...actually toyota should delete the glovebox airbag for a pop out sat phone anytime the 4wd button is pressed....:):). This Cruiser is pretty easy to poke a bit of fun at...sorry to anyone that may have already ordered one but it's just a car, boat would be different.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

hey don't take my comments as personal insult (unless you want to) as I said, I am just "on the other side" because I can be!! done the same in various posts here, regardless of the product, if it appears to be either biased or one sided, I just take the minority side, just for the sake of debate, BUT I reckon the best test for most things is someone who uses one for work, like in a Gov dept, they do not have the emotion attached to their motor,car/4X4/computer, whatever, even "proper" tests by Journalists tend to be "embelished" to make sure they do not offend a maker and therefore any possible Advertising revenue, so there you go, bring on something else to "to and fro" about, I can take it, can you???

[Horse]

Can anyone tell me who won Australian Best Car of the Year again this year in the 4X category::) ;D

[mini696]

At bit of debate is always great to have Noel.

[sea raider]

Can anyone tell me who won Australian Best Car of the Year again this year in the 4X category::) ;D

And can anyone tell us the other cars in the category it was judged against?

[Mr__Bean]

Its a personal thing I guess. I have never liked the excess of the 100 series (save for when towing massive weights) and this one just keeps getting bigger (and heavier).

Cheers

I think you will find that is driven by their constant push into the US market.

We in Australia are really only their overflow market.

- Darren

P.S. For the record, on my second TD 100 series now and when this one has its 3rd birthday I look to get a 200 series. Never seen anything tow 3 tonne like them and still have the wife throw it around the shopping cente.

[luckyone]

yeppick my new 200 series up on sat just cant wait sorry too see the old 100 go it was a good truck didnt want to buy a new one but the deal was too good mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmtwo more sleeps

[ozscott]

did the 100 get it back again Horse...its been the Land Rover Disco 3 for 2-3 years running

[sea raider]

yeppick my new 200 series up on sat just cant wait sorry too see the old 100 go it was a good truck didnt want to buy a new one but the deal was too good mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmtwo more sleeps


So how is it going now?