Tuning

[Titanic]

Have a brand new E-Tec 75 fitted to a 5.65 Ocean Whaler. Maiden voyage had a 17pitch SS prop and was pulling about 4600rpm and clocking WOT 29.3 Knots. Dealer said he would prefer to see the motor running over 5000 rpm (manufacturers range 4500-5500). Went down to a 15 pitch SS and I am now pulling 4800rpm and clocking around 28.3 knots. The dealer said I would get more revs and more WOT speed . I got basically what I read I would get and that is more revs but no improvement in top end speed . Now I am not after top end speed I just want the motor to be operating in its proper range and I think 5000rpm or just over is where it should be. In my opinion the motor ran smoother with the 17pitch prop . The motor is bolted at its lowest position on top of the transom and I feel this could be the problem. When buying a new boat is it the dealers responsibility to make sure the motor is tuned and should I just return it to him and let him sort it out.

[Chimo]

Titanic

The 90 is the same 3 cylinder block as the 75. Wondering why you didn't go with the bigger motor as you boat is probably more than capable of handling it isn't it?

Might be a good time to talk to the dealer and then with the extra HP for the same weight motor you might get the extra speed and be able to get the motor to operate at the 5000 to 5200 WOT that is probably where you correctly say you want to be.

Whats the weight of the rig?

Chimo

[Titanic]

I was going to get the 90 but the dealer turned me off it saying there was some performance problem with them . The rig fully loaded would come in at around 900kg. It is a Cathedral Hull foam filled lay up.

[myde]

Titanic,

I would return it to the dealer and get him to sort it out. You should be getting around 5500rpm WOT at least (for the 115hp E-tec the target is 5750rpm). Anything less and the motor will probably suffer reduced life.

Myde

[Titanic]

Thanks, Those are my feelings as well. It seems that they throw the motor on and hope that it is set properly. I know this was the first etec 75 he had fitted to this hull. The Dealer will look after me I know but as you know it is the hassle of it all.

[finga]

That's why you pay the big money....for them to have the hassles not you.
Just consider your boat as the R&D boat for them to figure out what's needed. :)

[Chimo]

What problems with the 90 please?

Chimo

[Noelm]

there is NO problems with a 90, but make sure you can get those RPMs up to at least 5500 with "normal" running load, never, ever overload an Outboard with an over sized prop.

[Titanic]

Ok. Spoke to dealer today and I asked why he talked me out of 90 and he said because they were only getting 32Knots and the 75 was only slightly slower. I remember another dealer who I got a quote from saying the same . The dealer has told me fro the first twelve hours the motor detunes itself by 500 revs and doubles its oil usuage. He has another customer with a 115 who said after 12 hours the motor lifted its revs and oil consumption dropped. I originally had a 17" prop on and I just felt that it was better suited than the 15" even though it was down on the revs. I have agreed to give it to 15 hours and reasess. If it jumps 500 I will opt back to the 17" and would the get around 32Knots at about 5100rpm Theoretically which I would be happy with

[STUIE63]

Sounds like BS to me I have a 90 etec and it never changed revs for WOT after 10,12,15 or even 100 hours this engine is mounted on a 5.5m glass c/c and I run a 15" prop to get the WOT to close to max. 75hp would be awful close to underpowered and is with the two props they have tried by the WOT revs if you keep the 75 then you will have to get a smaller prop again to get the revs right
my experiences when playing with different props was not a lot of change in speed but the revs came up for the same speed and the motor ran quieter once the right prop was on the boat .I put the noise down to the motor is not lugging anymore
Stuie

[Chimo]

Who is the dealer please?

Chimo

[Titanic]

The Dealer or seller is Boatland Mandurah. He gets his motors from either Hayway Marine or Mandurah Boating Centre who are both authorized E-Tec dealers. Are you saying that I would have to go down to a 13'' prop to achieve the right revs (over 5000) and again sacrifice some WOT. I wanted a 90 and I was talked out of it (no appreciable diiference in WOT speed). Am I within my rights to demand he fit a 90 and pay the difference, I am starting to get the feeling that the 75 motor is underpowered for this hull. I am not going to run WOT very often but I am being told that I should attain over 5000rpm to be sure the boat is performing at its best in all ranges. I rang today a guy who makes the hull and used to work for one of the above E-Tec dealers . He told me that Evinrude recommend the motor run in the high 4000's as they produce no more usuable torque when they are propped over 5000. That of course would make my prop the right choice . So now I am even more confused. Tomorrow I will BRP and see if I can get some sense out of them .

[gar26lw]

personally id take the 90 over the 75. i swapped from a 75 to a 90 and there was a difference, more noticable when you have it fully loaded with blokes and gear. if i could i would have gone 115.

[FNQCairns]

Until you get enough water past the hull to start lifting it, a boat in a sense is a barge and the engine will be doing it hard. Some boats do not have the lift to get there by the cruising speed the size of the fitted engine allows.

To get around this you need to prop down to raise the RPM and use these extra revolutions at the propeller to hopefully get the boat working with the 75 in your case, if that means 5650rpm then so be it (would be my aim). If your target stays close to 5000 you will forever stay dissapointed with the result and you are doing your engine side of the investment no favours either.

Prop to 5500 with full fuel, fishing gear and 2-3 blokes, don't forget that diameter has a lot to do with the end result, with the shift toward the smaller sizes of engines being fitted to heavyish hulls these days sometimes it is usesfull to sacrefice a little holding power to keep a decent cruise speed and economy.

cheers fnq

[BM]

Titanic,

What is the dry weight of your hull?

Where is the cav plate in relation to the bottom of the hull?

Cheers

[Mindi]

Titanic..Opinions are like a...holes...everyone has one.. so here's mine.
If you keep going down in prop size and get a few more revs but little more speed I suspect the boat is just underpowered. The seller statement that the 90 "only went a little faster" is inherently silly...on what hull..? with what prop..? and with what load..?I would seek to upgrade to a 90 for the street price difference between the two motors and no remove/refit cost to you.
Whatever else you do dont run your motor WOT at revs below the recommended range....if I were BRP I would not take responsibility for the results. Good luck.

[Titanic]

Thought I would put an epilogue to this thread . Since last year a few things have happened . Firstly I was put in touch with a Craig H by someone on this forum and after his good advice I investigated the 15" prop that I had been given and discovered I had been shortchanged by the etec dealer. I had been provided with the old style painted 15 "SS prop with a different rake to the Highly polished 17" SS prop originally provided with the motor. Craig said that the HPSS was the right one for the motor and aldo to look at the positioning of the motor on the transom.
I took me two months of intense negotiation to get the prop replaced with the right one . Whilst the dealer I bought the motor from and the Etec dealer who supplied him the motor and BRP all agreed I should have the HPSS prop no one was going to pay for it. This all took place because the ETEC dealer had a change of owners and the new owner would not wear the cost. My original 17" HPSS had been spirited away. Anyway eventually I just started jumping up and down and BRP sorted it out. So with the new prop and the dealer putting the motor one hole higher we finally tested the motor yesterday.
The day was not perfect but I managed to find a reasonably calm stretch of water and opened her up and achieved 5000 rpm on the button and 29.5 knots.
The motor is now doing what it is supposed to with a manufacturers recommended range of between 4800 and 5200 and at 4900 producing its maximum horsepower. Yes I could have gone to a 90hp and probably got another 3 knots but also lost out on fuel consumption . To me the motor is just right and I am quite happy to set the revs at 4000 and for her to purr along at 25 knots ..
I have learned a few things with this experience and that is when buying a new boat particularly where a new motor boat combination is being tried ask, no demand the boat is water tested. If this had been done in this case I would not have gone through three months of being stuffed around, and secondly there is a wealth of good advice out there and I am thankful to Craig for his and his ever prompt response to my questions.

[Bandy3]

Great to hear the outcome of this.

I to have a Etec 90 hp in the XL 25 " which means the V6 gearbox and a different drive ratio. 2.25 :1 to the 20"

I also know that very prop you were lumbered with..very very well, first hand- it is a pig.

I currently am going thru the importance science of correct propping and now would like anyone out there to share their info relevant to this outboard motor.

A question to any Aus fish members out there-
Has anyone run a BRP 4 blade SS cyclone prop behind there 90hp instead of a 3 blade ???
Or any brand of 4 blade prop, please include dia and pitch.


If so could you please PM me or post some results of the outcomes.

These inline 3's seem to be a little bit different to "normal" 2 strokes in regards to chasing say 5400 + rpm at WOT to be set right, from what I have researched in both Aust and US.
From what good advise I have had first hand in Aust & the info off a lot of US outboard forums sites.

I come across this posted tonight from a well known US site which has a wealth of Etec info which may assist other Etec owners of this size motor and thought I'd share.



Quote:
If it's one of the inline engines, and the rpms are set properly to the boat, you'd have to work to kill it some how. The inline 90 E-tec needs to be propped at W.O.T to 5200 rpm for best longevity, some are propped a bit higher in the rpm range, the engine likes a load. I know this number seems low in the band but both the 75 and 90 E-tecs like it here. They have plenty to give at this rpm range. On a pontoon, I'd have a Tach and a water pressure guage installed. There are promotions going on right now so you can call a dealer for the skinny on that. My guys rig em, I set em up to run, they go out and don't come back. That what I'm talkn' bout'!!! end of quote.

happy easter,
bp.

[Jabba_]

This is the correct ranges for your 75hp.. It is taken from a BRP Dealers fact sheet.....

75hp (Operating range.. 4500 - 5500).. (optimium range.. 5000-5200)

[Reel Blue]

Craig H does know his stuff regarding ETECs. With propping I believe that the boat very lightly loaded needs to be achieving maximum revs within the operating range. Then when the normal load of full fuel and three or four people, eskies and all your gear is loeaded on, the boat will achieve mid opeating range revs at WOT. This will achieve excactly what Jabba just stated.

I originally had a 14.75x17 viper on my 175 etec which would only achieve 5100 rpm within a recommended range of 4850-5850. Now I have a 15x15 and it will run to 5700 rpm lightly loaded and around 5500 rpm with normal weight. Acceleration and hole shot is better, top end is slightly less, but most importantly motor is not working as hard. No prop is perfect for all applications, it depends on what is important to the individual boater.

[Titanic]

Thanks guys for your comments . From what I have heard the 5000 rpm I have got is just about optimal . Had two on board half a tank and she had a little more to give so I feel fully loaded she would still come in very close to 5000. Thoroughly happy with the motor . I had a 50hp Merc before with carby .The motor was brand new put an absolute pig to start . The new etec well just turn the key and off we go .

[Jabba_]

To pick up a few more RPM's... Take a fine metal file and linish the trailing edge of each prop blade (Cup)....

Best doing while you out on the water, then you can water test straight away.... Dont go to heavy on the linishing, as it will cause to you to over rev........ Just take 2 firm swipes per blade and test. Do this untill you get to your desired WOT rpm.... Not only will you pick up RPM, but you will also increase top speed and slightly higher cruise speed for same RPM as you have now..... Also to help the prop a little,,, give a slight linish to the leading edge of each blade (face side that is).... Remember too keep it all even......

[FNQCairns]

Fair dinkum it's a jungle out there! 5000 to 5200 optimum!! (just coughed my coffee over the keyboard)

Bottom line with no magical claims is if the manufacturers max revs is 5500 and you do not gear it to run here you are doing damage...it doesn't get better than that no matter how it gets twisted or for what ever reason.

Another thing think of the prop as a gear if the engine cannot reach full rpm (or higher) with that gear fitted just imagin how much harder this single gear is working the engine when at cruising speed with all that extra hull in the water and even slower rpms!!!!.

Exhaust gas temperature heaven - that is if you like it hot!

cheers fnq

[disorderly]

Fair dinkum it's a jungle out there! 5000 to 5200 optimum!! (just coughed my coffee over the keyboard)

Bottom line with no magical claims is if the manufacturers max revs is 5500 and you do not gear it to run here you are doing damage...it doesn't get better than that no matter how it gets twisted or for what ever reason.

Another thing think of the prop as a gear if the engine cannot reach full rpm (or higher) with that gear fitted just imagin how much harder this single gear is working the engine when at cruising speed with all that extra hull in the water and even slower rpms!!!!.

Exhaust gas temperature heaven - that is if you like it hot!

cheers fnq

So Scott are you saying you know more about these new tech motors than both the manufacturers and the dealer's.
I also questioned my dealer when my new E-Tec 90 would only run out to 5250 RPM at WOT and they told me this was the optimum range?

scott

[FNQCairns]

They were full of it IMO, if say 5000 was not the upper rpm limit, I am saying an engine is a engine irrespective of spurious claims, show me in history 1 manufactuer that was unhappy for a customer to run his new outboard in the middle of their HP certification range (thats what it really is).
For 40 years it has been known and understood this will ensure a gush of spare parts sales far sooner than later, the rules don't change it's not magic nor can it be twisted - yet anyway. possibly just a little with the e-tecs but still not enough.

I have not needed to check what the marketed HP cert range these engine actually do have - thats why I deliberately included the 5500prm example in my post.

Scott if you are not operating yours up the top somewhere it is on the way to an early death - toss a coin to guess which one it will be and when but guaranteed it will be earlier and more costly engine to own than the bloke who proped higher.

Don't forget even the e-tecs still use needle bearings and cranks which would still be at home on a 40 year old engine.

What people get wrong when parroting that "2 st engines like to rev" is. NO they don't, what they like is to be able to rev with ease, it's a big distinction and critical for a long and trouble free life.

cheers fnq

[disorderly]

I'm hearing you,FNQ.
What would you suggest that I say to my dealer in the next week or so when I take the boat in to exchange the tacho(third time If I remember correctly).
I too would be happier if I could reach 5500 but they assure me that it's not necessary?....what are my options ?

Scott

[FNQCairns]

How about you got a trip in a blokes boat (pick a hull more or less like yours) who was holidaying up here with the same engine that had could rev to 5500rpm 2 up with gear/fuel and that yours is a dog in comparison and you think yours should be able to perform as well as his - better acceleration/higher cruise speed/better top speed.

Here is the hard part, they can only offer you a prop from out of their dogalog (the real reason for the term optimum) they are seriously restricted in choice to make the boat come alive so you may easily be stuck with a poor setup but the most 'optimum' setup they can easily obtain.

cheers fnq

[novice 1]

I'm not a marine expert, but section 52 of the trade practices act and as ruled on no less than 3 times by the high court, can be losely interpreted as there is no such thing as buyer beware (legally, practicaly is often a differant story) you must give the dealer the opitunity to make it right, however be very sure of his directions/intentions and get as much of it in writing as possible. Make notes about who said what. If he gets it all sorted for you, you can throw the notes away. If he doesn't, you've got more than your memory to fall back on. Good luck.