Land Rover v's Nissan he he he he

[bugman]

There's no bias in this review::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qToSGpiGB3o&mode=related&search=

[Lucky_Phill]

In other words, they are both OK !!!!!

I have always said, the driver makes a good 4WD.

I did note that the motor is now a Ford ?????? what's doing there ????


Bias......... nah !!!! :P :P :P

Phill

[spinyeel]

This is my fishin buggy.Cost $800 and a carton of beer.;D ::)

[landyman]

I didn't note any bias at all..

the only thing going for the Nissan is reliabilty which is questionable - just ask any 3.0td owner :P ...

there is no doubt the LR has more offroad capability OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR than the Nissan.. but once you start modifying.. well, then it is whoever has the most money really

Land Rover continues to be the vehicle of choice for military (including Australian) around the world.. but I am not bias.. I drive a Hilux ;D (even though I am landyman)

[Sandman]

:) Do you still have yours Bret ?

[BenDover]

Ha Ha Ha, pomie wankers. Funny... In standard form most 4bies are pretty shit anyway. But I have never seen any disco's/ landy's do any good on extreme runs. Like all pomie cars they should stay in england.

[BenDover]

We should have a vote!! Best what ever on each 4x4.

Front suspension set up ...(80 series cruiser)
Rear suspension set up ...(gu patrol)
Diff centres and lsd's ...(gu patrol)
axles and cv's ...(gu patrol)
Most Power out of all 4x4's ...(cruiser)
Least amount of rust ...(im not sure Maybe the disco's)
Strongest chassis ...(cruiser)

[landyman]

Ha Ha Ha, pomie wankers. Funny... In standard form most 4bies are pretty shit anyway. But I have never seen any disco's/ landy's do any good on extreme runs. Like all pomie cars they should stay in england.

What about all the Range Rovers that have won the Outback Challenge, Malaysian Rainforest Challenge and various other HARDCORE winch challenge events.. ::)

[landyman]

We should have a vote!! Best what ever on each 4x4.

Front suspension set up ...(80 series cruiser) -you kidding right - that would be Range Rover
Rear suspension set up ...(gu patrol) - you kidding right - that would be Range Rover
Diff centres and lsd's ...(gu patrol) yep - no doubt
axles and cv's ...(gu patrol) yep no doubt
Most Power out of all 4x4's ...(cruiser) actual HP would be the supercharged Range Rover
Least amount of rust ...(im not sure Maybe the disco's) yep
Strongest chassis ...(cruiser) questionable.. seen a few cracked ones

those are my feelings anyway

[CHRIS aka GWH]

there's no bias in this reply



In other words, they are both OK !!!!!

I have always said, the driver makes a good 4WD.

I did note that the motor is now a Ford ?????? what's doing there ????


Bias......... nah !!!! :P :P :P

Phill


"I have always said, the driver makes a good 4WD."
fair point - a good offroad driver can take a 2wd most places - but a good offraod vehicle can forgive a an inexperienced driver.

That clip shows very little of the 2007 landrover trials at Eastnor castle - at one stage a 4wd mag journo is taken into the bog and told to change into 3rd when the revs are dropping - the antistall rev compensator thingo on the landy and the fact that its maximum torque is at low revs pulled it out.

Is offroad prowess simply power and speed as many advocate and demonstate in a dangerous fashion on our beaches or is it in fact well designed engine torque and gear ratio suited to the soft stuff....

I will take a photo diary of all boggings on straddie at the september holidays i witness !!

ps BRETT - I intend to have one of the 2007 defenders before the end of the year - landrover are supposed to have them in oz by october - they have started changing their website already - there has been no criticism of the peugot (ford owned) designed diesel after almost 12 months - its been in the Transits for some time now and has had an offroad overhaul with regards to internal seals etc - she's a reliable donk from all reports

[BenDover]

The rain forest challenge trucks etc. are no longer anything but the cab. They have custom and modified everything... I can see you are a 1 sided about land rovers. All my years of racing my 4x4s in events. They are just the results me and alot of other competitors have come up with. Each have their good points. But no 1 ESPECIALLY landrover have them all.

Those items on the list are of standard form trucks.
I bet you cant even tell me the difference in suspensions between those 3? and why 1 is better than the other?::)

[BenDover]

NEW "OFFICIAL " RESULTS... :)
After making a few calls here it is... incase any1 is interested to know

BEST...
FRONT SUSPENSION SET UP.... 80 SERIES LANDCRUISER
REAR SUSPENSION SET UP.... GU PATROL
DIFF CENTRES AND LSD'S.... GU PATROL
AXLES AND CV'S.... GU PATROL
MOST POWER IN STANDARD FORM... SUPERCHARGED LANDROVER (wins against toyota's twin turbo by 55 kw)
LEAST AMOUNT OF RUST.... LANDROVER
STRONGEST CHASSIS.... GU PATROL (they have upgraded from gu and on to thicker gauge chassis! beating landcruisers long standing record)

[finga]

At least Landy's are easy to fix.
This is how we got ours and how it ended up after a cartoon of beer and a bottle of Turtle Wax. ;D

[landyman]

The rain forest challenge trucks etc. are no longer anything but the cab. They have custom and modified everything... I can see you are a 1 sided about land rovers. All my years of racing my 4x4s in events. They are just the results me and alot of other competitors have come up with. Each have their good points. But no 1 ESPECIALLY landrover have them all.

Those items on the list are of standard form trucks.
I bet you cant even tell me the difference in suspensions between those 3? and why 1 is better than the other?::)

Most comp Rangies still run Rover engines (4.6l), rover axles (replacement cw&p, cvs and axles), stock chassis, standardish suspension.. usually only 2" body and 2" susp. lift..

I am not that one sided about Land Rovers.. yes I have owned many including a very high spec Rangie.. but I know own a Hilux - and love it for what it is..

As for the suspension differences.. for one I do know that the LR 3 link rear (2 trailing arms and a-frame) is the best in the business (for stock) - the anti-squat characteristics of that system is copied by many crawler buggies and even retro fitted to many comp Hilux's.. the lack of panhard (as found on other Jap 4wd's) helps the rear axle articulate far better than any panhard setup.. as well as the fact the upper and lower links are almost parrallel (preferred) from the factory and the upper balljoint offers almost 180 degrees of movement with no links attached

the front also being 3 link (radius arms and panhard) is very good due to the link location (underside) and long length of radius arms.. although the front is nowhere near as good as the rear.. it can be greatly improved by simply fitting "holy bushes" from Sam Overton (haultech) compared to the expense of new arms (3rds etc), castor/drop plates etc..


my hands are sore from typing but I hope you "catch my drift" and realise I am no one eyed LR biased idiot :wink:

[Brett1907]

I just love that they review these new 4WD's on tracks easier than me and my old man have taken an AP5 Valiant on the Variety Bash.

I wouldn't even put the 'Lux into 4WD let alone use the diff locks in those puddles!

The thing I don't like about the Defenders is the seating position, it has been so uncomfortable and having the B Pillar beside the front seats also reduces visibilty.

Go the Toyota's!!!!

Brett

[BenDover]

To tell you the honest truth i havent looked at the newest landy rears. I will have to put it up against my patrol rear. (i dont like its chances of beating it though) I think they still have straight up and down shocks set up on it?? . Not the angled set up on patrol 5 link. But it also landy's have an offset rear diff centres which puts alot of pressure/ and break axles. My old comp truck spat axles like no tomorrow.

The 3 link fronts are all basically the same but cruiser just has a much better pakage in standard.

But for comp trucks? 2" suspension and 2" body lift. ?? Your comps in vic must be way different to ours in queensland. Im not sure...
I know you know what your talking about now... But geeez you sounded 1 eyed in your first message.
Here are some rear pics of the gu. New shocks and springs only, and have got another 120mm of down travel since the pic with correct size shocks.

[wamjam]

I agree with Brett! ,driven my old chevy HQ ute through worst shit than that and smoked tyres far easier than either of them.;D ;D
wamjam

[surf_man]

sorry to dissapoint you bendover, but the defender has the best wheel travel front and rear out of any off the shelf 4wd. this was even proven in 4wd monthly a couple of years back the patrol was the next closest. the rear setup on a defend is a triangulated three link which gives a lot more then the standard patrol.

in terms of chassis, you havent ever climbed under a defender buy the sounds of it because if you think the patrol has a stronger chassi you would probly crap your pants when yo saw the steel under a defender.

not many trucks that you can run 37's with only a 2 inch lift and fit 35 with no mods.

[landyman]

To tell you the honest truth i havent looked at the newest landy rears. I will have to put it up against my patrol rear. (i dont like its chances of beating it though) I think they still have straight up and down shocks set up on it?? . Not the angled set up on patrol 5 link. But it also landy's have an offset rear diff centres which puts alot of pressure/ and break axles. My old comp truck spat axles like no tomorrow.

The 3 link fronts are all basically the same but cruiser just has a much better pakage in standard.

But for comp trucks? 2" suspension and 2" body lift. ?? Your comps in vic must be way different to ours in queensland. Im not sure...
I know you know what your talking about now... But geeez you sounded 1 eyed in your first message.
Here are some rear pics of the gu. New shocks and springs only, and have got another 120mm of down travel since the pic with correct size shocks.

LOL.. ::)

FIRSTLY - the angle of the shocks has NOTHING to do with suspension travel mate.. only the dampening force..

SECONDLY - having offset diff centres have NOTHING to do with axle breakage.. and are actually a benefit when crossing rough terrain as you have a larger area with more clearance.. diff and axle breakages are due to weak materials and spline count.. take a look at a Dana D60 axle - the strongest there is.. no look at a Defender Salisbury.. notice anything similar.. BINGO - pretty much the same thing..

as for 2" + 2" - this is the setup Chris Hummer won the Malaysian RFC with, what the Smiths ran in there OBC + RFC winning vehicle..

enough said.. this is like a Holden/Ford argument.. will never end..

[finding_time]

Anyone taking a landy to the meet and greet at levuka on the weekend?? How about you landyman? We could run a little ausfish test, and review , i've got a funny feeling that a certain gu will piss it in!!!;D And it doesn't get it's 5inch lift till next year, then it will be " UNSTOPPABLE"8-)

Ian

See you saturday night Phill;)

PS just saw you were in Melbourne Landyman i guess you wont be there but i'm sure we'll get another to take up the challenge!!:P

[bugman]

Chris,

Haven't see you on here much - good to hear you're still around.

I've read every review there has been on the new Defender and I haven't found a bad one yet - other than seating position and old style looks etc. They certainly can build a 4wd. The transit motor has got the runs on the board for nearly 10 years so it should be what they were looking for.

The TD5 rolled out of the garage as the best motor Landy had ever built but w eknow they now have a few issues. Mine's got the typical corrosion problems and I've replaced the main wiring harness 3 times now. Having said that the power and torque they produce still has all the TDI owners wanting one.

My aftermarket ECU has been the best thing I've ever bought. Everyone that takes it for a ride can't believe the torque when changing gears.

We're up for a new car so the Landy is going to go. Leanne asked me the other day if I wanted a new Defender and in my heart I do but my head is telling me I don't need it to do the things I once did. (maybe later in life I'll get another;)) I'll be taking one for a test drive anyway - just for old times sake.

Ian,

As for you - well you have a nice "car" maybe one day you'll buy a 4WD::)::)

:P

Brett

[BenDover]

Landy Man, Did you crawl out of a cave or something? I havent had a good look at a new rear landy set up. But the only thing holding your springs in are your shocks mate!!! I think you need to do some research on shocks and agles etc.. A shock that travels straight up and down has MUCH less travel than 1 that articulates towards the tyre because its agled towards the centre point of its axis. Thats why people run the biggest and over sided you can get. (eg throught the bonnet on the front) And offset diff's (when running high horse power) the short side gets 80% of the power and because of the play and flex in your axle the otherside get bugger all. There for the short side breaks bolts and spits axles. (cruisers and patrols dont have small spline counts.) I have raced and run both cruiser and patrol and im not bias at all... Each have their good points. But in the ute range. Patrol coil cabs wins hands down.

Say what you wont> And maybe i was wrong with the wheel travel comment (and landy is the best) but i will test it.. But I have raced heaps of landrovers before in events and NONE of them have been anygood hey...

I will take part in any events/ or ausfish 4x4 tests just to see what happens. My patrol is highly modified now though. So... I dont know.

How many years and event have you raced in landyman??

[FNQCairns]

Need to watch those airbags, know someone with a very modern landrover could be rangerover I don't take that much notice of them, he has had leak after leak, luckily it's still in warrenty those bags would be worth a lot genuine!, he does 0 offroad. Nice car though..very shiny.

cheers fnq

[landyman]

Landy Man, Did you crawl out of a cave or something? I havent had a good look at a new rear landy set up. But the only thing holding your springs in are your shocks mate!!! I think you need to do some research on shocks and agles etc.. A shock that travels straight up and down has MUCH less travel than 1 that articulates towards the tyre because its agled towards the centre point of its axis. Thats why people run the biggest and over sided you can get. (eg throught the bonnet on the front) And offset diff's (when running high horse power) the short side gets 80% of the power and because of the play and flex in your axle the otherside get bugger all. There for the short side breaks bolts and spits axles. (cruisers and patrols dont have small spline counts.) I have raced and run both cruiser and patrol and im not bias at all... Each have their good points. But in the ute range. Patrol coil cabs wins hands down.

Say what you wont> And maybe i was wrong with the wheel travel comment (and landy is the best) but i will test it.. But I have raced heaps of landrovers before in events and NONE of them have been anygood hey...

I will take part in any events/ or ausfish 4x4 tests just to see what happens. My patrol is highly modified now though. So... I dont know.

How many years and event have you raced in landyman??

bwhahaha.. that is funny.. mate you need to go read up again on suspension cycles and the effect dampening has on it..
link postion and length is far more important than any shock mounting point - just look at the bushes on your shocks..

do you know what anti-squat is ?? what about roll axis ?? how about what effect anti-squat has on roll axis ?? do you know what changing the position and length of your upper and lower links has on these things ?? if you do explain them to us then.. until then I will reserve judgment on your suspension know how or lack of it..

as for axle torque.. well, I know many guys running very high power V8's through 30 spline aftermarket Rover axles with NO problems.. again.. spline count and material play a far greater role in alxe strength that axle length.. again I ask you.. do you know what materials good axles are made from.. how heat treating effects that material ??

I have been building and modifying 4wds since the early 80's with my dad.. I do not race.. my last Range Rover had custom 30 spline cromo (300m) axles with cryo treated cw&p's, heat treated 300m cv's and many other custom bits.. all fitted and engineered by me ;)

[BenDover]

Hey Landyman, I can only go off my knowledge mate. And what i have learnt over many years.
But you are new here and id advise you to not be so arigant and insulting in your messages or you might be kicked off ausfish. This isnt about who's right or wrong, its about sharing knowledge.
I dont have anything more to say on this subject.

[landyman]

Hey Landyman, I can only go off my knowledge mate. And what i have learnt over many years.
But you are new here and id advise you to not be so arigant and insulting in your messages or you might be kicked off ausfish. This isnt about who's right or wrong, its about sharing knowledge.
I dont have anything more to say on this subject.

yep, I thought so..

I may be new on this forum, but not new to forums.. I may have come across as arrogant and insulting but that is not the case.. However, when people say things that are simply not true i.e. you reference to shock mounting position, I feel that I should try and add some truth to the matter.. then, as usual on the internet, the other person (you) gets their back up and comes out fighting.. ::) I see it all the time on the 4wd forums I am very active (and respected) on.

Unfortunatly though with suspension there is a right and wrong and this is what I am/was trying to explain.. when it comes to choice - well, then there is obviously no right or wrong as we all have opinions.. sharing knowledge is great.. sharing incorrect knowledge is just dangerous..

BTW - if you are interested in learning more on the above subjects.. here are a few links that are extremely educational..

Suspension theory http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/suspension/131_0306_four_link_suspension_part_1/index.html

Axle tech
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-BV60/index1b.html

Peace ;)