underbinds and blank action

[craftycarp]

I have read a few things that ian miller has written about underbinds and how it can change the blanks action (negatively) in lot of instances he says not to bother with them. Is this a generally held view outt here?

[wheezer]

not sure what the general view is out there but IMO underbinds are unecessary on most rods, especially graphite blanks. you want to keep the rod as light as possible while maximising response and sensitivity, best way to do that is to bind the guide in direct contact with the blank for maximum feedback. I never underbind any of my rods unless someone insists on it, even then i try and talk them out of it. with correct guide foot prep you will not have any durability issues. I also stick to titanium frame fujis on all my rods where available to keep the rod as light as possible. any weight that can be saved forward of the reel is a good thing in my book...

[tunaticer]

IMO for rods below 4kg underbinds could possibly alter the rods action marginally but I would like to see a test on a single rod blank being made underbound and scientifically tested and recorded and then stripped back then rebound without underbinds. Theoretically underbinds would maybe add 2 or 3 grams to a rod over its length and on ultra light it might make the difference.

I believe that underbinds should be considered on heavy gear to stop the guide foot wearing the rod and on very fragile graphites to avoid impact damages from either accidental knocks or thread shrinkage during sealing. Some threads are affected by the sealers and do shrink marginally and this shrinkage could cause an impact damage area on a very fragile blank.

Jack.

[roz]

I think the underbind on perhaps five or six guides would be lucky to add 1gm to the weight of a rod, not enough to get precious about.

I also cannot see how the underbind on single foot guides, provided it remained level with the over bind would have any bearing what so ever on the action of the rod.

cheers roz.

[jerson]

Is there anyone out there who can feel the weight of 6 underbinds on a 1 - 2 kg graphite rod with single foot guides? This is the lightest rod i've ever held. Rods not underbound tend to loose their allure.

[jewymad]

i'd have to agree with roz also i feel (unless lght spin,fly ect) that the underbind helps protect the blank under load especially if fishing often (as everyone should be) plus a gm or two isnt going to be to critical or effect your action to much , but if your talking lght estuary or fly well than imo id forget the underbind, this is a topic that i reckon you will recieve all sorts of ideas and ill be looking foward to reading them best of luck

[finga]

Personally I like to see an underbind but that's me. :)

If weight was that critical I'd be looking at under the reelseat as a place to visit Jenny Craige.
All that resin and tape and stuff has to weigh a lot compared to an underbind.
We need some new waffle/honeycombe looking material (that looks like the inside of TV coax cable...but not the foamy stuff...the hard plastic type) so most of the area under the seat isn't filled with resin or tape, just air.
I know some solid foams are available for this job but a 'plug' that's made out of a graphite composite (just like the reel seats) with a round solid middle (about 10-12mm so you can drill a hole through it to closely fit the blank) with veins radiating out to another circle that fits the required reel seat.
Anyways that's just me thinking out loud :-/
Ah bugger it I'm hopeless at describing so a simplistic paint shop and that's that

[Longshot]

I can remember an old rod maker in SA many years ago telling me that guides on a rod designed for an overhead reel did not need to be underbound, but that on a rod for a spinning reel underbinding was a neccessity. His opinion was that on a spinning reel the guide feet could possibly dig into the blank and cause a week spot.

He also held the view that on a rod designed tom be used with a heavy overhead he would always doublebind the guides so that the guide feet would not poke out.

If he was stil around he would love to see the improvement in guides today.

Me, I always underbind purely for looks. Although I do remember that underbinding would make a 13 foot Sportex blank a little more sloppy than one without it.

I use Fuji plate reel seats(FS7) , along with polyprop cord for grips, if I wish to save some weight. Hey works for and I catch as many fish as the next guy.

[DR]

one thing to be aware of , i suppose, is 'the gulliver affect'. in that with the new light walled graphites, if you put the underbind on too tight & then put a tight overbind, it can cause the blank to collapse :'( in the same way old gully was kept down..

i haven't decided whether they are necessary or not, i always used them sparingly feeling that the metal guide foot would rub on the blank as is flexed, even if only slightly & eventually create a weak spot.
i don't know if opinions to the contrary are just sales talk to save time & keep costs down or to make the custom builder appear to 'really' know what he is talking about. ( i am a cynical bugger, i know) 8-) thinking music is still playing..

[roz]

This would have to be one of the most re cycled topics in rod building, but it's always interesting to hear different views.

However, I always underbind on every rod I build, but nowdays keep it minimal and no more than about three ml outside the foot of the guide.

I believe a firm underbind in A preserves both the blank & guide by providing that thin barrier. As for effectig the action of the rod, if the overbind covers almost the same area as the underbind how could it be possible.

I've re built rods (not many mind you) which hav'nt seen any underbinding, replacing the guides and adding the extra thread, and I honestly couldn't detect any difference in the action.

A 2-3kg bass rod is the lightest I use, can't pass judgement on the ultra light 1kg gear.

r.

[Stuart]

This is a very re-cycled issue indeed. However every one gets hung up on one point and one point only, and that’s weight of the under bind. The issue of weight affecting the rods action is so far from reality it’s not funny. Under binds/ over binds all have an affect on rod action but it’s got nothing to do with weight. So what is it then? Well the thread stops the blank from changing shape from round to oval. This has a greater affect on light blanks than heavier models because of wall thickness. The thinner the wall the greater the thread will stop it from changing shape. If you were to drop a washer onto a blank and let it stop around half way then load the blank, it will certainly snap at that very spot every time. Luckily for us thread isn’t that rigged, it moves to some degree.

Stu

[craftycarp]

I was never under the opinion weight of the wrap had anything to do with action. Thanks for that washer explanation Stu thats a good way of putting but as roz said a firm overbind would probably have the same effect as under bind? then again maybe the space under foot allows for some blank distortion? Who knows thats why I am asking you guys.