Diesel Engine Oil

[Whitto]

Have recently bought a 4X4 and it is almost due for an Oil change, It's a 2.8lt 4cyl T/Diesel, Oil's aint Oil's is what Im asking any recommendations or advise what to steer clear of or more too the point what to use, Cheers Whitto

[Dan5]

There's many good oil's out there Whitto for the last 10 or 12 year's i've had diesel engine's and have used penrite hpr 50 diesel i change it every 5000 or a little sooner and have never had any oil related problem's.As long as your change's are frequent and not over due i think any of the major oil company's oil's will exeed the requirment's of our engine's in normal circumstances.If in doubt check any of the major oil company's recomended lubricant's chart on their website's.Dan........

[Kleyny]

As long as you use known brands and of course using diesel specific oil you should be OK.

IMO i like the penrite range as after frequent changes is doesn't seem to leave that tar like substance in the motor like some others do.

I'm sure that someone else will have other opinions but what it comes down to is regular oil changes. (with your T/D you should be changing the oil every 5000km)

Check what the owners manual says in regards to what viscosity you use. if the engine has heaps of kms you can go a slightly thicker oil. So if you have a 10W40 thick would be say 10w50. (from memory)

hope this helps

neil

[Whitto]

Thanks Boys, Big help, I know this particular vehicle had regular services, must check the record book to see what intervals it was serviced, It has 225k's on the clock in terms of diesel engines that is not a lot of mileage, The bloody thing runs like a dream, Thanks again, Cheers Whitto

[tunaticer]

As the guys have stated above the key thing is regular changes.

I have half a dozen diesels at work that get services every 5000k max. The drivers get a toe up the bum if they let it go more than 100km over that mark. Anyway we use SHELL RIMULA D 15W-40 in them with no problems.
Two of the vehicles have done over 500 000km now and still basically havent had anything done to them apart from the water pump replacement and a radiator in each of them.

In saying that its going to come down to how much money you want to invest in your motors over how long you intend to have them. Our work vehicles get a hard life and are not treated with kid gloves ever but they do get regular servicing and that is the key.
I can't see the point in putting high tech synthetic oils in a old diesel thats done 200k or so. Synthetics are a whole lot more exy. If i bought a top of the range 4by for myself brand new i would prolly opt for synthetics to be run from new on.

Jack.

[FNQCairns]

Whatever you choose choose a HDDO (heavy duty diesel oil). These are diesel oils that have stood the test in big rigs and other commercial engines, they are more sheer stable than most of the crop of oils marketed toward everyday vehicles and they usually hold a higher quality and more expensive formula additive pack for detergents/dispersants/corrosion protection etc.

Put another way the average car/4wd owner uses then dumps, if the engine has not died an oil related death during even relatively short term ownership it is then a good oil.
Commercial operators get their HDDO's laboratory checked for conditon at regular intervals and if the oil doesn't hold up, it shows and shows fast. Very many of the Supr cheep and auto shop oils will not make the standard of protection nessesary.

I use Caltex delo-400, $5.00 per L, semi synth (which really means nothing), CI4 (which means lot's) looking toward the new CJ-4 but not sure yet, very sheer stable, contains molybendum, what else can I say? oh yeah it's a HDDO as well:) and did I say it was $5.00 per L:):)

Shell delvac 1, is also a very very good oil possibly the best but a person pays for it, too expensive for me.

cheers fnq

[Chimo]

I've just been using Shell Myrina L in my turbo diesel (4.2) since 1990 with 5000k changes together with filters. Touch wood, no issues to date.

Chimo

[2rods]

I have been using Castrol RX super in my diesel 4x4's for the last 20 years and NEVER had any issues. I am a diesel fitter by trade and many of the trucks ect that I have worked on have run RX super as well:)


Just use good filters (OEM or fleetguard) and change the oil every 5000kms on the dot.

Synthetic oil is very very good but way to much $$$$$ for me:o

[luckyone]

been useing castrol rx super oil for years and cant fault it and you can buy it anywere

[gawby]

All of what you blokes have said is very correct however the success to long engine life is to use the same oil all the time.
Swap and change the brand causes oil useage and motor wear.
I only use R X super in my truck and donot add any other brand.
If i was to use delo or something else that would be all i use.

Graeme

[Greg P]

Graeme is spot on. Different oils have different additive packages that can react with seals, coolers tubes. Best to stay with one all it's life (brand only - viscosity change ok)

[SeaHunt]

I use Shell Helix Diesel, has all the right numbers and so far so good. Change Oil and Oil filter every 5000 K or I might let it get out to 6000 K if mostly highway use. Toyota's hilux manual used to say every 10,000 k up until they switched to the 3 litre motor and then they went to 5000 k.

[catfishkid]

I use Penrite HPR Diesel in my hilux,so far so good.

[GT_warrior]

Interesting that the most of you seem to agree that 5000k is the better interval for oil changes, I am nervous now as I have just purchased the 07 Rodeo TD common rail and the recommended intervals after the first 3k are 10k? What to do? :-[




8-)

[Lovey80]

Can hurt to do it every 5000 GT_Warrior except in the hip pocket. At least if you for some reason let it go over then a 10k oil change will get you back on round numbers without any worry?

Cheers Chris

[Greg P]

My last car (3.0l turbo diesel Patrol) was 10K service interval - had no problems. Not trying to bag early 4 cyl Toyota diesels BUT ten years ago I spent 18 LONG months diagnosing the oil samples @ Wear Check and they were shockers for sooting up the oil. Some of the samples could not be run through the full analysis as it was like jelly.

[Far side]

Interesting that the most of you seem to agree that 5000k is the better interval for oil changes, I am nervous now as I have just purchased the 07 Rodeo TD common rail and the recommended intervals after the first 3k are 10k? What to do? :-[




8-)

The common rail diesels have a better burn ratio than the injector pump old style type diesels hence the carbon buildup in the oil is lower and the change ratio is higher. Personally I am a 5k interval oil and filter changer but have the old style injector pump model. If you are going to DYI I would suggest that you always buy the same oil usually a turbo diesel detergent type such as delo 400 and stick with it. In respect to the change interval I would inspect the oil at 5000 see how dirty it is and how oily ask a diesel mechanic there are a few simple tests and then work out your change interval. oil is cheap motors cost $$$$

[FNQCairns]

IMO you are getting good advice above, yes stick ridgedly to 5k or push to 6 if you have to 10k is too long, my patrol with the 4.2 was a moms taxi before I bought it and it had been dealer serviced since new at 10k:( with crap automotive diesel oils, I call it dealer abused, it's the delers and the manufacturers interest.

Anyway I fitted a bypass filter and have ran to 10k but even with this and a known quality oil it was past it's use by, due mainly to a very high number of cold starts and short trips on that oil. Without the bypass 5K would have been where I dumped. An old addage is you cannot change your oil often enough and it still rings true as engine oil filters are still nothing more than rock catchers on the oil contamination scale.

cheers fnq

PS forgot to add that although the new engines when compared to the pre-comp engines are cleaner if a person sticks their mouth over the exhaust, this is in part achieved by the engine being designed to injest it's burnt exhaust gasses and gives the oil a very hard time of of it, as it needs to cope with this extra abuse, there is now a new diesel oil rating designed to address this problem, time will tell if it in fact does help.

[SeaHunt]

Toyota were at 10 K for their Hilux's until they brought out the 3 litre to replace the 2.8's. I think they had a few warranty claims wth the first 3 litres so they changed it to 5k.
Seems like some cockys were doing a hard 10 k mostly in 4wd before changing the oil, which would be like doing 20 thousand for those of us who stay mostly on the bitumen. How much soot ends up in the oil between changes depends more on how many revolutions the motor has done than how many kilometers the tyres have travelled. The recommended intevals in the manual have a fair bit of padding in there so the manufacturer can cover their arse with warranty claims.
If I was doing mostly highway driving I wouldn't worry too much about going a couple of k over.

[luckyone]

i have always changed at 10.000 ks and never had a problem 5000ks is a bit short if you use good oil and ive been driveing trucks and 4x4 s for 35 yrs and not had a problem

[beachie]

I would like to thank you all for the information provided. i had no idea it was so important to change your oil so regularly. i am mechanically illiterate and this site will help me to no end.

[tunaticer]

Probably the biggest key for servicing regularly is the changing of filters each time.

If you stick with a 5000km regime and change the filters everytime you will never develop oil flow problems in your motor and your oil pump will never wear out constantly grinding up minute particles of carbon and metal.

Jack

[Cruiser93]

As was stated earlier OIL IS CHEAP compared to a rebuild on a diesel engine .............Mal

[Argle]

As was stated earlier OIL IS CHEAP compared to a rebuild on a diesel engine .............Mal

Cheap especially where you buy your oil from hey Mal;) :-X

Cheers and beers
Scott

[adds31]

I got a 3ltr t/d lux and change oil every 5 thou and filters same. I started off with valvoline super diesel and have stayed with it. Thats what they kicked her over with when she was brand new so i've stuck with it. A mate has a cruiser ute 4.2 t/d and has used it since day dot as well. Its what toyota reccomend so i'll keep using it.
Cheers Adds..

[yamp]

I have also just got bought a 04 td auto rodeo, sounds like 5k intervals for oil/filer changes instead of 10k service intervals? ute has 65000kms on it,any advice on looking after it greatly appreciated, it used to be service in brisbane by ultratune not sure what oil they use? would it matter what oil I start using cheers yamp

[hondaguy]

Go the Caltex Delo 400 multigrade about $70-$85 per 20l drum my 'crusier has over 640k and honda 30hp o/b over 2000hrs. Change filter and oil regular 5000km or when it gets dirty as everyone else recommends. I DYI my veichle and boats. Both diesel and petrol engines love it. Old farmer at Gundi started me on it, one oil in all motors on the farm from 500hp turbo cotton headers about $600 000 machine down to stationary motors worth $500. His oil samples always tested well from the lab. It has one of the best soot suspending abilities for the $$$. Any modern oil diesel sold in 20l drums will be suitable and as said start with one type and stay with it, even if you have to supply your own oil to the mechanics

[FNQCairns]

Yamp the test for a diesel oil starts at about 250,000km and ends at about 750,000+, if your engine has not sludged, maxed out on valve lash clearances or elsewhere etc within a point in this range somewhere it is a good oil, where in that range denotes how good, so in all reality if you plan on going this far with your oil then it is worthwhile finding a really good one esp if the plan is to have the original engine outlast the body.

Also dont believe the thick oils that are sold by some makers do any engine that's in good condition a favour either. 40 wt is the max 30wt is the min (unless oil fired injectors then do exactly what the manufacturers recomend, and thats a shame).

Bottom line is if you get your engine serviced by someone specify a CI4 oil, at the very very very least a CH4, science says these can do the job, no urban myths, marketing, out-dated vehicle maufacturer recomendations or brand loyalty need apply.

cheers fnq

[snappatrappa]

Have used Penrite in my 94 Troopy since new - now 300k+ and no worries. Secret is regular changes. I know it is expensive - Troopy takes 9 litres a change - but still cheaper than a new motor.

[yamp]

thanks for advice fella ended up going for caltex delo 400 $115 I was also looking into brimrose oils,advice form came back recommending
The Engine uses New Generation 15w40
, The Gearbox uses DX 111,and the Two Diffs use 75w140 Synthetic. This saves having a different oil for each diff and the Synthetic has about a quarter of the drag which gives much better fuel Consumption. My Upper Cylinder Lubricant and Fuel Treatment will give much better Fuel consumption, and your fuel system will never need repairing. just wondering if anyone has used these product or advice on the addictives regarding fuel economy

[hondaguy]

Try sourcing your oil from a caltex or ampol wholesaler, or a large truck stop as it is usually cheaper than from the servos but it is still a good choice. In an older type motor like my '82 'crusier i add 500ml of engine oil to a 90 litres of diesel tank. This helps to lube up and freshen the seals in the older injection pumps since the sulpher has been reduced from diesel as the lead has removed from petrol. Bi tron is good diesel additive is you can source it in Mackay. Do a web search for agents, get the 2st oil additive make my 2st run smooth is you do order some.

[FNQCairns]

yamp good choice the Dello, thankfully they only market it at the big rigs, so competition keeps the price down, if it were marketed toward everyday vehicles it would cost 2x as much.

Better fuel economy is all about cetane ratings, for the additive to better economy it must either increase this (with the proportionate incease in HP) or decrease friction (with a proportonate increase in HP).

So if your engine makes 100hp stock straight from the dealer and someone claims a 5% increase in fuel economy look also for the HP increase sort of hand in hand. IMO most claims of fuel economy increases from a additive dose at say .2% by Volume to a tank stinks of snake oil salesman.

Upper cyl lube has some merits, there are a few different well sold and used active ingredient world wide, some of these are not without their known problems, best to know what one is used in that particular formula, they can work but may not be cost effectivly given time (some are harmfull!). There is nothing new here it's all old technology so do some research on what is already known and understood.

Synthetic has the same drag as dino oil, wt for wt, the synthetic is better usually because of the lack of viscosity improvers needed to bring it to spec, that's good for sheer proofing the oil (relatively speaking).
Synthtic is of most value about 2/10ths of a second before the engine blows up (when the stresses are that large the synthetic is doing a markedly better job!).

Using the same wt for front and rear dif if you live in an area that has neither extreme of climate is a good idea, but case by case. A 75 140 would be a less robust oil than a 90 140 becuase the more viscosity improver needed to span such a range, the less sheer stable it becomes, diffs can be hard on oils.

If you do not do heaps of driving with the front engaged (constant 4x4, farm truck etc) then it is more cost effective to use an average and cheap front diff oil like the ones sold at auto stores and drop it with the synthetic used in the rear each time.

cheers fnq

[yamp]

thanks very much for info fellas, fnq very informative reading,wondered what you reccommend regards to getting the best out of my diesel I many use 2w only 4h sometimes,I was thinking of doing oil and filter every 5k instead of 10 and putting synthetic oil in diffs,next change for better fuel economy,I was also going to run fuel treatment every second tank or so and maybe use the cylinder conditioner every now and again,sounds like it might do more harm than good?or just waste money.just looking to get a good maintainece program started to look after car for many years to come cheers Yamp

[Grunter71]

My Landcruiser manual specifies oil changes every 10K's. It requires nearly 9 litres per oil change.

I assume that the larger oil capacity allows for the longer period between oil changes.

Is my thinking correct?

[Whitto]

The mob that service my Rodeo use Valvoline and I will be changing the Oil and Filter every 5000k's as recommended by the manufacturer, Has anyone had any issues with Valvoline in the past or at all, Thanks Whitto

[FNQCairns]

Yamp I may be having a brain fade but I dont understand the 2w and 4h references:(

You have the dello it is good for 5k without doubt in a sound engine, taking it to 10 is possible also but not without an oil ananysis to ascertain where the oil stands in your engine under the conditions you used it since the fill. There is no way around this, so 5k is without doubt safe given the engine doesn't have an illness.
Longer with a UOA (they can be cost effective) for instance if the used oil analysis shows the oil is still good at 7k then 12k then at 15k the oil has almost reached it's use by, a person has just saved good money on oil + service charges or time, the results can be remembered combined with an understanding of the use the vehicle was put through during that period can extend their future drains to say 10k and pocket the savings.

If you do lot's of cold starts, stick ridgidly to 5k, if your a highway driver with minimal stop start and not towing a person can safely go longer although this can only be shown to be the right choice with an oil ananysis.

Unless the engine has a problem traveling 10k would probably come down to soot holding capacity more than anything, dello rates well here being a HDDO.

Your filter works better the longer it is in place, 5 or 10 the choice is yours the filter probably doesn't care, most filters can go to 15k+ etc but not recommended due to range of individual engines in their own individual condition and used for individual uses.

The term synthetic means nothing today as a result of an international court case, synthetic now simply means marketing. For it to have value a person must know precisly what group the oil stock used to make the oil is, without this as the reference even dino (mineral) oils can be labeled synthtic, like who within the crop of typical customers buying a mass marketed diesel vehicle oil (not a HDDO) is going to research it??

Brass tacks on the first number used in weighting oils is that it is a crock here in Oz, a 5w and a 15w will both be relativly the same thickness upon startup in Australia and will only relate to 5&15 in conditions we do not drop down to, the upper number means all (this relates to diff oils also), it's important to select an oil for your dif that will maintain its vicosity and therefore film thickness under high temperature conditions and with age due to sheer.

So if going synthetic for diff try 90w-140 synthetic the oil will be more robust, and the extra drag relating to 75/90 would only be of consern for fuel economy if used in winter in north america.


Hey Grunta don't believe it, the manual doen't state their recommended interval for people who want the best for their engines, more related to good enough and to appeal to those who may choose a different vehicle if the book stated 5k due to servicing cost etc.

A 9l sump really has nothing to do with it, 20L possibly it would?? A UOA will tell you where your engine stands for the conditions you use and treat it.

Whitto from my perspective only the V will be fine for rigid 5k but not an oil to push to 7 or even 10 without knowing exactly where the oil stood at 5k.

hope some of this helped somewhere.

cheers fnq

[Grunter71]

Thanks FNQ. Very good information.

Whereabouts do you take an oil sample in order to have an analysis done?

[yamp]

Thanks for info fnq sorry about the 2w 4h comment I meant 2h and 4h 2wheel, high range and 4 wheel high range.also was interested in doing oil checks whats the go with them regarding where, how cost etc.also probably stupid question but what do you mean by cold starts,Im in Mackay nq so its always pretty warm here. cheers Yamp

[FNQCairns]

Grunter71/Yamp ring any of the major oil/fuel companys they sell kit's which you then use to sample and deliver for analysis, cost can be as little as $20 expect say $35ish, but depends on how many kit's are purchased up front and what you would like included in the results, you will recieve a trained appraisal of any problems and future options. There are a couple of other non oil company companys also. Ring around for price.

Yamp a cold start is anytime the vehicle is started from cold like anytime the engine has not been started in 5 hours, without doubt the worst cold start is the one that warms it up by driving soon after startup as the amount of fuel injected into the cylinder on acceleration will not totally combust due to a still cold cylinder some will make it past the rings this contaminates the oil quickly, second worst is a cold start that results in less than say10km traveled before shutdown as the oil doesn't reach a high enough temperature for long enough to evaporate the water condensated from the last shutdown - promotes substances like sulfuric acid which happily attacks internals esp if the oil is not up to the task (another reason to use a HDDO). Both of these in regular combination and 5k drains is sometimes well long enough.

cheers fnq

[steve99]

best advice is use what the vehicle manufacturer recommends in my navara str 3.0 litre turbo diesel i use mobile 4x4 which is an a3/b3 oil i have done 70000 klm in 11 months and had no troubles. my previous navara str 3.0 turbo diesel [ purchased in jan o3 ] did 260000 klm in 4 years i used the same oil in that vehicle as well- no troubles whatsoever. like what eveyone says the secret is changing the oil and filter every 5000 klms.

[Rodman]

M8 ensure that your turbo diesel has either normal diesel oil or does it have synthitic oil. Dont mix these oils.
My 3lt turbo patrol has been on synthitic oil from day one
If you have a service history ring the dealership and they will

Ken