Transom replacement project

[Sea-Dog]

I have a 4.5M Sea Sprite half cab of early Eighties vintage (I suspect).

It has previously had a partial transom replacement from the rear skin, so I decided to go in that way too, as it looked really crappy.


The previous repairer had coated the entire exterior of the "repaired" transom with some sort of beige coloured bog. In some places, it was up to 6mm thick.


It was hard and inflexible. It was bonded well to the existing gelcoat and repaired fibreglass areas. It looked absolutely crappy, so I had no hesitation in removing the bog and original gelcoat to see what I was left with.



A large area in the middle of the transom had been cut out and replaced with more ply. The new ply was in worse condition than most of the original ply.


The transom is quite strange, in that it is stepped. The ply was approx 25mm thick at the top, extending at that thickness down for about 240mm (Level with the outer chines). It then stepped down in thickness to only 12mm thick down to the bottom of the hull.



That seems AWFULLY thin to me......



It HAD a 115 Hp sitting atop it until recently. :-[ All of the ply was wet. One area of ply in the top starboard wing of the transom closely resembled dry leaves. I stuck my finger into it, and all that was left of the ply were a few dry, paper-thin layers.



I reckon I should go with the same thickness of ply from top to bottom.



The hull was originally rated to 85Hp. I'd like to be able to stick 90Hp on the back. (and still keep the insurance company happy)




What thickness of ply should I use? 50mm plus glass, or would 35mm plus glass be sufficient?

[Sea-Dog]

Floor is solid glass - no ply.

It is a single mould that is in the shape of an inverted hat. It serves the function of stringers as well.

There doesn't appear to any timber below floor as far as I can see under the floor from the rear of the boat.

I may have to drill an inspection hole under one of the bunks to make sure.

[blaze]

IMO
3 x 12 mm laminated together, dont use bog use a product called Qcell, dont step, use the same thickness all the way down. Where the drain plug goes through- remove all ply for about 50mm around the hole and replace with qcell (one of the places moisture ingresses into transom)
cheers
blaze
ps
wear face mask and eye protection, baby power on the body prior to commencing work helps relieve itching

[Sea-Dog]

Thanks Blaze, 3x 12mm it is then.......


That means that I will have to cut back a bit of the floor I suppose? or...........

Is it necessary to glass the bottom of the transom to the bottom of the hull, or is it enough to glass it to the floor, sides and splashwell? (Considering the full fibreglass construction of the floor/centrewell assembly)

( I will have to remove the rear of the splashwell to accommodate the thicker transom )

A grinding we will go, a grinding we will go............. :'(:'(:'(

I already have disposable overalls, long gumbies, long rubber gloves, goggles, and dual canister respirator.

I just don't know how long to keep the disposable overalls..... they come up alright after a wash ;D;D (Yeah, I know - bl00dy cheapskate)

[ashh]

if you do get itchy, have the hottest shower you can take, doing this opens up the pores in your skin. Dont 'scrub' at your skin, but brush in the same way your hairs grow to brush and rinse away the fibres, otherwise youll snap the fibres off in your skin and youll be itchy for ages.
I use to work in airconditioning factory lining the insides of AC duct with insulation, even with wearing protective gear, it finds its way in. Have fun :P

[finga]

What a job :o
I'm glad it's you matey and not me. I hate the itchy's.

Another little hint....overalls over the gumby's. That way the dust cannot settle in the top and work it's way down into the socks.

[finga]

A question for all Eddy the experts...
Why don't they use solid glass for transoms???
Looks like this boat has a solid glass floor.
Is it a weight thing or a flex thing or what??

[BM]

Solid glass would mean no elasticity whatsoever so under the load of the engine thrusting the transom would crack.

The pics of the rear floor area look like glass over ply to me. There has to be some type of stringer arrangement otherwise the hull bottom would be flopping about the place with no support.

Cheers

EDIT: just had a closer look at the floor pics. Yes, definitely all glass. Unusual arrangement. Wouldn't be original I wouldn't think, may have been done at the time the transom was repaired. May have been a home done job.

[Sea-Dog]

The floor/stringer setup has to be factory made. It looks like its all a single mould.

The lines are too straight and even to be a home job.

I don't know what its like in the front half of the hull though.

I hope its the same deal all the way through.

I will drill a couple of inspection holes at some stage soon and see what goes on at the front of the boat, under the floor.

I know of one other bloke that owns a seasprite hull. I will email him and ask some questions.

[Sea-Dog]

Gone a bit further now. I needed extra space to work and fit the extra thickness of transom. So instead of cutting through the top deck, and removing the splashwell and rear seat section, I thought I'd go a bit more radical and remove the entire top deck.

It will give me heaps of access to all the areas I need to. At the moment, the top deck has been separated from the hull, but is still sitting in place.

I plan on removing the entire thing and placing it on drums out of the way, so I can work unobstructed.

[johnnytheone]

G'day SeaDog,
It's actually not as gruesome as you first think. There are heaps of good sites on the net that give good details on how to go about it. (www.rotdoctor.com (http://www.rotdoctor.com) is just one). I took out a stern drive and filled the hole up - easy! A whole transom is obviously a bigger proposition. Just have a couple of beers and think about it first. One thing that's worth considering is using a compound that gets into the matrix of any timber and waterproofs, and up to a point, reconstitutes it. Epicraft "Everdure" is one such product. It's a bit exy but it goes a long way. It's also good for bung holes and wherever you've got a raw hole through a timber bulkhead etc.
Try to find a bulk supplier of resin and matt etc, as its vastly cheaper. One other thing - for Christ's sake don't get catalyst in you eyes!!

[ozscott]

...is that right about the transom. My seafarer has only wood in the middle of the transom where the engine sits (unlike the old Haines I had where the wood spanned the entire width of the transom - from gun'l to gun'l). It has a little bit of soft in it, but no flex whatsoever when you hang off the end of the motor and apply bodyweight to it at full tilt. I spoke to Lindsay Fry about it (Seafarer owner) and Nelson Rabel who assessed the boat before purchase and both said that the sheer amount of glass used on the transom and because the transom is convex means that the wood could be completely gone and it wouldnt matter at all to the integrity of the transom and boat - having said that my outboard is about half the power of the maximum permitted according to the plate. The thickness of the straight fibreglass on the old girl is amazing - for example when I cut a hole in the foredeck/prow for the anchor rode, the deck is over an inch thick of pure fibreglass. The bloody dash is 3/4s of an inch thick at all points of solid glass....so I dont really know why the wood is there. Its a point that i have wondered about before Finga.

When I had my V163 half cab (70's Haines) the transom was very sound, but the floor got rot in it and when I cut it out the stringers were completely rotten also - just thin glass shells. What dissapointed me was that the original floor was only 5mils or so thick and with only about 2mm of glass on it....AND NO glass at all on the underside of the ply, so that any condensation would tend to eat away at the floor from the inside. I had Holloways down the coast put in new stringers and also a 12mm ply floor that was glassed heavily on BOTH sides...the guy who bought it off me 6 months or so later has got a boat for life!

Cheers

[BM]

... I spoke to Lindsay Fry about it (Seafarer owner) and Nelson Rabel who assessed the boat before purchase and both said that the sheer amount of glass used on the transom and because the transom is convex means that the wood could be completely gone and it wouldnt matter at all to the integrity of the transom and boat

Fair enough I suppose. But then, from a production cost analysis perspective, if the timber isn't required, then why the extra cost and labour to put it there in the first instance???

Methinks the provided response is tantamount too "oh, oh...."

Cheers :)

[ozscott]

I know what your saying matey, but there is no shame in a boat that has rot that is 30 years old - the condensation is enough and you cant keep that out. Also Nelson Rabel is a well respected marine surveyor, and had nothing to gain by telling me the same things as Lindsay Fry....and the proof is in the pudding in terms of the rough sea performance with not even fine crows feet anywhere on the aft end of the boat, and no flex at all..having said that my transom is not soft to touch and its only in a couple of small areas where if you drill you get some softer wood. I also filled mine with Evidure when I got it to stablise the spores that would be in the soft wood.

Cheers

[Sea-Dog]

It's a bit early to be asking this at the current stage, but at least I won't forget if I ask now.

I was saying the bloke down at Bias about how I'd like to glass the inside of engine mount holes after drilling to lessen the chance of water ingress.

He suggested something a bit different.

Mark out the position of the holes, then drill quite oversize holes.

Fill the holes with resin/qcell putty then after that has fully set, just drill the correct size holes for the engine mounts through the resin putty.

Then just use oversize washers (& sealant) both sides of the transom and much lesser chance of water getting in.

To me it sounds like quite a good idea.

Opinions?

[ozscott]

sounds like a great idea to me

[BM]

As long as your oversized washers are larger than the area taken up by the resin and qcel since the bond strength between the resin/qcel and the transom timber is likely to be extremely weak.

Cheers

[ozscott]

good point BM - yep, the glass will possibly shrink a tiny tiny bit and overall there is nothing to re-enforce it.

Cheers

[Sea-Dog]

Time I did a bit more work.

I bought some 70x35 pine from Bunnings this morning and used that to support the top deck whilst I slid it forward, making plenty of working room at the stern.

Today I made another discovery.

My glass floor isn't all plain glass....

When doing more grinding this morning, I cut away about 25cm of floor.

I found ply...... Wet ply :'(:'(:'( that started about 25 cm from inner transom wall.

I have also discovered that the floor mould is in two pieces (so far).

Each mould (including glassed in ply) starts almost at the outer edge of the hull, and continues to the edge of the center well, where it forms a stringer.

Basically each floor mould is in an "L" shape. (Try and visualize)

The ply in the floor is about 12mm thick and encased (both sides) in glass. This didn't stop it rotting though.

And another thing... The bottom of the center well is well-rotted ply that has only been glassed on the upper side. It needs new ply and reglassing.

Now I start to seriously wonder..... Is it all worth it???????

After all the grinding, itching, time, money etc. I will have a solid boat that will last.... but it is still only a small boat. (4.5M)

And I still have to get a new outboard for it.

I will have a dig around under the floor in the cabin tomorrow and find out if anything there needs to be done.

The results of the forward investigation may decide the ultimate fate for the boat. :-/:-/:-/

[big moose]

Just my opinion on the wood in the glass issue the main reason it is there is price, wood is cheaper than glass so they use it to get the strength then use the glass basically to seal the wod and give a nice finish. With regard to the mount holes I would not recomend mounting in oversize holes with filler this would allow movement in the mounts go with your original plan and paint some resin around the holes then lots of sikaflex on the bolts.

[Wahoo]

this is a good report seadog, looks like your doing well,.... keep the updates comming, good to see



Daz

[BM]

Sea Dog, I think you are on the right track with the idea of pullin the pin in the project.

If it were a 20ft hull or similar the effort would be well worthwhile as the final product will make either a great boat to keep or an attractive proposition to sell.

A 4.5mtr boat with a new floor and transom isn't going to bring much more (possibly no more) dollars than the same boat with an original but intact floor and transom. And yes, its still a little boat.

Can you clear it for what it owes you? If not and you spent too much then for the small $$ outlay but large time outlay it may be worth repairing and then flogging off. No-one wants to buy a pulled apart boat unless its dirt cheap.

So can you flog it? Without losing?

Cheers

[blaze]

I look at the cost of rebuilding a boat a little different to BM, he needs to get a commercial gain.
For me its about achieving an out come over a period of time, a few dollars thrown at the project when spare money comes to hand over a period of time will get a boat that is basicly new, often stronger than new as new technoligy is used. Maybe the boat wont have the resale value but your original intent is to rebuild for personal use, the pleasure you will get from it cant be put in money terms.
cheers
blaze

[BM]

Yes, I hear what your saying Blaze but even as a "keeper" isn't it more worthwhile to do something bigger that can suit your future needs as well as present needs?

And even if the intention is to keep personally I would always consider the costs involved with restoring the boat myself in terms of 'Am I overcapitalising?" I mean, sure, the satisfaction of doing it yourself is quite rewarding but you don't want to end up losing out bigtime when you eventually sell it either coz you spent way too much on it. Or is it just me that thinks that way?

However, we all start somewhere and the first boat I restored was a Savage Pursuit 15 (runabout).

[big moose]

G,day Sea Dog,
For replacing the floor you might try closed cell foam sheet glassed both sides would be lighter than ply and doesn't rot as for whether its worth it or not only you can decide. if commercial value is not a factor and the boat will meet your needs for several years then it is probaly worth it the most important thing in a project of this nature is the enjoyment of doing it imho
regds gary

[Sea-Dog]

I purchased the boat of ebay for $4K with a rebuilt 115 Hp Evinrude and about $1,500 worth of accessories.

So really the boat was worth $2.5K including rego on boat & trailer.

It had a "rebuilt" transom - Yeah right!

And the motor has been rebuilt for towing skiers. Only problem with motor is that the tilt/trim unit carked it. Too old to consider spending $$$ on fixing the tilt/trim unit.

Now today, when grinding away at the floors I discovered about 3 cups of sand sitting under the floor at the stern end. There is no way out for the sand.

I think this boat may have gone for a swim at some stage.

I did a couple of floor core samples under the bunks and found good, dry ply. Hoo-bl00dy-ray. :) At least something has gone my way.

I removed the seat pedestals to find quite a bit of sand under each pedestal too.

I did some small drill hole through the floor on the starboard side and came up with damp ply up to the driver's standing position.

I removed a fair bit of floor on both sides until my knees started complaining too much with the hardness of the deck.

I can't say much for the builder's methods. The floor mould on the outer edge, just sat on the bottom of the hull, so that the glassed ply (mostly glassed anyway :'( ) just sat loose on top of the hull where the planing strakes? are - No bedding compound, just sitting loose. There are rub marks where the floor mould actually made contact.

I haven't been able to see into the bow area to find out whether there is any form of stringer there or not.

Maybe I should just go the whole hog and remove the entire floor, do away with fibreglass pseudo-stringers, and build proper stringers and bulkheads.

[BM]

Ummm....... rebuilt for towing skiers????

Please explain what the go is there????

Cheers

[Sea-Dog]

Ummm....... rebuilt for towing skiers????

Please explain what the go is there????

Cheers

Stuffed if I know - that's what the previous owner said. I think it also referred to the propping since the motor was sitting at about 4,500 RPM (recommended max for the 30 Year Old Evinrude if I remember correctly) at around two thirds throttle for 34 Knots. I assume that if it had a greater pitch prop, she would have gone a bit faster for the same revs.

Exactly what work was done, I don't know. It ran ok until the tilt trim unit shat itself.

Anyhow, more grinding today, as I have a day off with an interesting throat and I work on the phones all day. I'd scare too many people if they heard my growly voice at the moment.

[Sea-Dog]

I just had a bit of a further investigation as to what the story is as far as stringers are concerned in the bow area.

Since I have now removed a fair bit of the flooring on the port side of the boat, I can now see a fair way under the floor into the bow area.

And what did I see?................ Those fibreglass stringers that were part of the floor, ended where the bunks start. >:(

Forward of that, I couldn't see any form of stringers at all.

Floor above this area is 22.5mm thick including top and bottom layers of glass.

They were relying on the strength of the floor to stop excessive hull flex.

Well there aren't any obvious cracks in the hull, so I suppose the builder's method of bracing seems to have worked.

I think I'd be happier putting in full stringers and bulkheads, but it's a shiteload more work.

Bearing in mind the length of the boat (4.5M) would it be reasonable to just follow the manufacturer's design, and just replace the floor and stringers from the bunks back, or should I completely gut the hull and go from scratch with full-length stringers etc. ?????

One thing puzzles me at this point - I mentioned in a previous post that there was a quantity of dried sand under the floor, which had collected at the stern end.

The only way that this sand could get there is through the little drain hole at the front end of the center well. Either that, or the sand got in through the hull.

Maybe under the floor in the bow hides a surprise repair. There has been a repair to the hull above the waterline on the starboard bow where she must have been holed at some time in her life.


The below-floor area is completely sealed (from what I can see) apart from the drain at the front of the center well.

Here is a pic that shows the bow area under the floor. Please excuse the poor quality of the shot, but it was taken from the stern using flash and telephoto setting.

[BM]

I wonder if it went swimming at some stage???. This may account for the sand buildup...

Cheers

[Sea-Dog]

I wonder if it went swimming at some stage???. This may account for the sand buildup...

Cheers

My thoughts exactly. That would account for the well-soaked ply in places.

Assuming that it has sat underwater for a period - does that cause any particular problems (apart from the ply).

BM, do you think it should have full-length stringers, or do you reckon it would be OK the way it has been built?

Another question, if I may? Should I slide it off the trailer onto the concrete garage floor if I have to do the stringers? (to keep everything as straight as possible)

The trailer is only quite basic and doesn't have many keel rollers (3, plus two single wobble rollers at rear of trailer) plus 4 sets of double wobble rollers.

As per attached photos.
P.S. the white patches on underside of hull are areas sanded back after filling scratches in gelcoat.

Cheers, Ross

P.P.S. Hull deadrise isn't as severe as the 2nd photo suggests.

[BM]

It depends how long it swam for but more importantly how well it was constructed. See, osmosis occurs in hulls that are poorly constructed and have air voids or bubbles in the laminate.

Of course on easy and cheap way around Ozzy is to use vinylester resin in the outer layer layup. Costs bugger all more but means you have a hull that by all accounts should not suffer ozzy. I guess if its a trailerboat then the extra cost is really wasted. Of course, if she takes a swim, the inner layer is bare glass in most cases and your vinylester outer layup won't mean dick.... But hey, how many boat builders build boats with the possibility of them being occasional submarines???? Not many one would assume!!

Full length stringers.... Yes I think it should but without looking at it in person its hard to say whether the original design did the job adequately. If there are no cracks (I think you mentioned that) then one could perhaps conclude that the design was sound. Unusual, yes.... But sound nonetheless...

If you plan to redo the structure of the boat you will need to jig it carefully to retain the dimensions as per the makers intentions. So it will need keel support but chine support also since there wont be much holding the hull together (but a few mm of fibreglass). Park it on the hard and the deadrise will likely sag without chine support. But you could get a feel for it in any case witht he bare hull on the ground. One bloke on either end and you'd be able to see what degree of flex was occuring as you lifted it.

[blaze]

Just my thoughts,
Dont think it has nessarly been under to have sand in strange places, its funny where things like sand will get over a period of time. The rot in the boat is no different to what you see in a lot of boats of that age. The moisture will walk its way up/along any timber in the boat once it starts.
Stringers
Full length is the go.
What are your thoughts on glass stringers - not hard to make
Can easily be made by make a mould out of color bond the right size with a vertical up, 90 degree arcoss the top and back down, you then lay up 1 layer of 600g matting, 600 woven roven and final another 600 mat. This leaves you with a 3mm thick hollow section that you then form up and fit in the boat, now repeat the mat,roven,mat twice more but at the same time as you build up the stringer you also build it into the boat. this will give you a stringer that is 10mm thick + a lot more thickness on the bottom of your boat.
cheers
blaze

[Sea-Dog]

Existing stringers are approx 115mm high. Only two of them.

Existing floor didn't go full-width, but stopped at the outermost strakes (approx 150mm from the chines) This left an angled section of the hull which was tucked up underneath the pockets along each side. It also meant that the floor was approx 50mm lower than if it went full width.

If gutting the hull and building new stringers (& bulkheads - which it only has one of, at the front of the center well) would it be wiser to go for a full-with, 50mm higher floor? Or should I just keep the narrower, deeper floor.

The gunwales have plenty of height so raising the floor 50mm wouldn't be a safety issue. It would make the boat a bit easier to get into as you have to rest your "tackle" on top of the gunwale to reach the floor.

I'm sure the missus & kids would appreciate less of a reach for the floor. :)

Yet another question: The boat only has the two "stringers" at the moment. Would 4 be more appropriate, or is that overkill for such a small boat?

By the way Blaze, how does one taper fibreglass stringers for the bow section? - I like the idea of lighter weight as the boat sits on an unbraked trailer and I'd like to keep it that way if possible. I'm not sure what she weighs at the moment - when its all back together, I'll have to put it over the scales.

What's the bet she goes over the limit for unbraked trailers and I have to get another trailer or fit brakes to this one? :-/


Many thanks to all who have contributed so far. Without your wealth of knowledge and assistance, this boat probably wouldn't be getting fixed at all.

I probably wouldn't even know that it had problems. :(

Ignorance is bliss until the shite hits the fan......

Cheers, Ross


Pic explaining floor width below.

[blaze]

Hi Ross
pm your email address to me and I will see if I can draw some pics for you, I would lift floor 50mm, gives lots of possibities of things like under floor fuel, kill tank etc
cheers
blaze

[Sea-Dog]

Extract from email from Blaze - (I thought others may be interested in this info too)

Not an artist but you will get the idea, The different colors represent the layers of
600g mat
600g roven
600g mat
These three sizes and types of matting will give you a strong LAYER, this is represented by firstly black line (inner)
This is what you build on the mould, because it is only a 3 sided thing (top and two sides) and only 3mm thick it is very easy and light to sit in the boat and trim it to fit, little at a time. Bit of mucking around to get it level with the chines (to level floor). This is done by sitting timber bearers across the chines. When you have 2 of these in the boat you then screw the timber bearers onto the stringers (as many as it takes so they dont move) now fibaglass some ties in about ever 18 inches, when all your ties are in place and set you remove all the timber work. Now you need to make a nice raduis where the stringer join the hull and transom using QCELL, sand it all smooth and put on layer 2 (blue) which consist of the same as layer 1. When that dries it is time to put layer 3 on (red). Then complete the work by tieing it all together with layer 4 (yellow).
Hope this is of some help, Takes time to do but you will end up with a very solid boat that will never rot again
cheers
blaze

[Sea-Dog]

My further questions from email to Blaze.

I just last night re-downloaded all of the "playpen" thread for reference. One of the questions the the playpen thread gave me was about the number of stringers I should use. Playpen had 4 plus a centre stringer/keel. Mine currently has only two stringers. Is two enough for my lil tub? I don't mind adding extras if thats what is best.

Also, I assume from what I have seen that stringers are always in a straight line and don't curve horizontally to follow the line of the bow. So the maximum length a stringer can be is to the point at which the bow rises up to to the height of the top of your stringer. (Level with chines) ( Did I say that in English or Swedish???)

Another point - should stringers always be placed directly above where the strakes are?

One last question for the moment - Would you agree that the best method would be to complete the structural bits of the transom before starting on the floor? I assume that way the hull would be under less stress if/when I slide the hull from the trailer to the floor to keep things straight when doing the stringers.

[Sea-Dog]

Blaze's response:

Just a quick couple of answers
ties - just a 2 or 3 inch strip of 600g matting about 6 inches long, this just holds the stringer in place so you can remove the timber
timber bracing - to make the floor level and true all the way, you require a point of reference, in this case the chines. If you sit pieces of say 50mm x 100mm piece of timber from one chine across the boat to the other chine, the bottom side of that timber will be the same height as your intended floor so when you put your floor in you have a level surface.
When I did mine I placed them about 750mm apart to make sure the floor was level for and aft and across the boat.
My stringers are about 600mm apart in 6m boat, will depend on your keel strenth to a degree. It does form strenth from triangulation.
Bulk heads - I broke my boat before rebuilding and swore it would never happen again, for survey bulkheads are required every 1000mm, I put mine at 500mm.
Transom first
Stringer shape - depending on width as to the shape and lenth, the wider they are spaced the shorter they will be, Mine taper off to nothing at the front.
To get a rough shape of your stingers, measure down from under your timber sitting on your chines (the bracing ones), now mark that on your stringers and pencil it in, then measure, then measure then measure agian then recheck your measurements a couple more times, now think about cutting
cheers
blaze

[Sea-Dog]

And now, we are live again (not from email)

Thanks Blaze, I apologise for my thick-headedness. I think I understand what you mean by ties now. (Lets do the check and see) I have to build the stringers to the full height from hull to chines/bottom of bearers. Then once I have stringers in place, trimmed to the appropriate height (whilst still attached to the temporary bearers that sit from chine to chine) I attach a tie between the bottom of the stringer and the hull?


These ties are just to hold the stringers in place until they can be glassed full-length to hull.

Am I barking up the right tree?

Cheers, Ross

[blaze]

thats the way
cheers
blaze

[Sea-Dog]

Well, its back to work on the boat again...

I have picked up a couple of tools to assist in the project.

(Good excuse to buy more toys)

Belt-drive air compressor
30 Metre air hose
Air nail gun
Air stapler
Air hammer/chisel
Air rattle gun
Air ratchet gun
Air die grinder
Air random orbit sander
Air pop-rivet gun
Air straight line sander
Saw horses
Cordless hot-melt glue gun
More clamps
Flap sanding discs for angle grinder
Hand sawI will see if I can get away with a slide compound mitre saw and a few other goodies along the way. :)

Then of course, after fixing the boat up, I will have to get a decent sounder and GPS to replace the old Matrix 10 outfit too. ;D

My two most-used items are the air-gun and the respirator (had to shave off beard to get a decent seal with respirator)

[Sea-Dog]

Finally decided to stop stuffing around trying to arrange transport of a couple of sheets of ply from the ply shop and went to bunnings instead.

The sheets they had were bigger than I needed, but at least bunnings have the free loan trailers.

I bought 2 sheets of 2400 x 1200 x 17mm ply. I really only needed sheets 1800 x 900, but bunnings doesn't carry that size. :(

The first thing I did, was to cut one end off the sheet (by handsaw) to a more manageable 1800mm length.

I then setup a bit of support under the transom to sit the ply on whilst I marked the outline of the hull onto the ply with a pencil.

I clamped the ply in the top corners to the hull to hold in place whilst I crawled underneath the boat with my pencil to mark out the ply.

No need to have a 1200mm high transom - So I ripped the excess off with the circular saw.

Out with the jigsaw to cut the rough shape as per the traced line.

Then lots of trial fitting and then sanding, more sanding, and then even more sanding.

[Wahoo]

Waaah new tools 8-) good stuff
keep them pics up seadog

Daz

[cabtrack]

Sea dog

Maybe the next project is a bigger shed.Keep up the good work.
Cabtrack

[Sea-Dog]

After lots of stuffing around sanding here and there to get the first thickness of ply to the correct shape - I got it to the right shape and height.

I haven't yet made the cutout for the motor, just left it full-height until I have the sheets laminated together.

I decided to do it this way, because I wanted to get the laminated transom as flat and true as possible. I reckon it will be easier to get it flat before making the cutout to final transom height of 25" (extra-long)

I then used the prepared first section as a template to mark out on the second sheet.

Much quicker to get the second half to shape.

At the moment, I have the two halves of the transom clamped together just doing a bit of straightening out before I go and buy some epoxy.

I will put a layer of mat between the two halves of ply to add more stiffness and strength.

I will do all of the transom work in epoxy for the extra strength bonds that it forms with existing glass.

When I get to the stringers, I will also do those in epoxy - once again for strength.

[oldie]

Hi sea dog, thought id ad my say, ,my 5.1 runabout which i think is easy rider, but looks like cruisecraft, old clinka has full fibreglass stringers through the whole think very strong and sturdy, i didnt do this can only imagine the factory made em like this cos ive just done the transom and port side floor and its was all origional!! HOW FUN IS GRINDING???? SND DUST??? I had a bloke who i know who used to build mariner cruisers come and help me, he charged me 20 an hour, i supplied the gear, we smashed it in 2 weekends, 5 hour days. we also ,ade the hull so i can control the water flow, basically abouve floor sealed with bungs, good as will never fill whole boat with water, i also glassed every side of ply and prob used more than needed, but as my old friend said its like welding, he reckons they used to cut the backs off 25foot boats and add a few feet to them for survey reglass the whole thing with 1200 wide 600grit, bottem and top, then strap twin diesels sterndrives in em!! the best thing that chances are when your finished the boat will be stronger than when it left the showroom, i will post my whole project, just getting paint on today!!
cheers Oldie

[Sea-Dog]

I have extracted the digit and done some more work.

Went to FGI and bought a bit of epoxy resin and slow hardener.

I thought slow hardener would suit the way I work :P

Gives at least twice the amount of pot life before she goes off.

Mixed up a brew using electronic scales to get the proportions correct.

5 Parts resin, 1 part hardner.

I had the two layers of ply both laid out on saw horses. I gave both of them a liberal dose of resin and allowed it to soak into the ply.

One of the sheets of ply had a couple of knot holes and cracks in the surface layer of ply.

I used a brush to force the resin to the bottom of the narrow crack, making sure of no air bubbles.

I then dipped the brush back into the resin and allowed the resin to drizzle into each of the knot holes until they were overflowing.

Another liberal coat of resin on each side (especially the bottom bit of ply), then I flipped the top layer of 17mm ply on top of the lower layer.

Each layer was slightly bowed outwards in the middle. This allowed me to do a bit of a shuffle to remove the chance of any air being trapped between layers.

I then started clamping from the middle towards the edges, forcing excess resin towards the edges of the transom.

In all, I used 21 clamps of various types to hold the two halves together whilst the resin goes off. I managed to pick up a couple of deep-throated clamps off ebay, that are being used to squeeze the middle bits of the transom together.

I would have taken more pics, if it wasn't just me doing the work. I had to wait until all the messy stuff was done before I could touch the camera.

[Sea-Dog]

Well, it took a lot longer than I expected for the resin to harden. Probably caused by the cool weather.

I used slow hardener in the correct quantity. It should have taken 90 minutes to gel. After several hours, the resin was thick, but very sticky.

24 hours and I could still leave fingerprints in excess resin that had dripped onto some cardboard on the garage floor.

I was beginning to think that I'd made a balls-up of something. But I had been over the top with accuracy of measurement of the resin and hardener. (within 1 gram of specified amounts.)

I left it a few days and sure enough, she'd hardened up nicely. I will have to wait for some warmer weather to do anymore resin work.

Now the two ply halves have effectively become one, and I can cut the transom to the final shape.

I am still not sure if I will fit an auxiliary motor beside the main engine. So I have shaped the transom to fit a long-shaft auxiliary engine (22") sitting beside the main outboard if I do decide to go ahead.

I have had a boat previously with one of those spring-loaded aux mounts, and I found it to be a royal pain to use.

When you lower the aux to a working level, the support arm that it sits on is almost horizontal. This means that the motor sits even further back than when it was in its storage position.

To easily reach the tiller on the aux, you have to sit on the edge of the splash well.

The boat sits down at the back and up at the front - the dash obstructing forward view.

I thought that if I could mount a little auxiliary motor, right beside the main motor on the transom - I could join the aux to the main steering, and perhaps a little remote throttle too. No more problems with seating or view.

This would be used primarily when pottering around picking up a string of crab pots, or just slow trolling. I'm not sure about fuel for the aux. I don't know whether to just use a separate tank of pre-mix, or if I should get a portable 4-stroke, so that I can feed it from the main tank of unleaded.

I wish they made portable 2 strokes with oil injection, like the main motor.


Anyway, enough waffle for now, here's a pic of the final shape of the transom ply.

[Sea-Dog]

Now I just have to wait for a bit of warmer weather on a weekend and I'll start the fun part - bedding in the new transom in a resin/glue bog mix, then glassing her to the hull.

Hang on a bit..... I'll have to give the transom an all-over coat of resin and mat first - just to make her nice and waterproof. (I don't want to have to cut this baby out in a couple of years due to water penetration.)

[Sea-Dog]

Slack attack over.

I have finally managed to encase the ply in resin and glass mat.

I realised that you don't have to sand it back smooth between dried layers to get good adhesion between layers. Just enough of a sanding to take a lot of the shiny stuff is enough.

I must have done about 4 hours of sanding between layers on the transom. :-[

At least it won't fall apart, but it has cost me for the resin :'(

No pics necessary as all you see is the transom looking a bit darker, courtesy of the layers of resin and glass.

[Sea-Dog]

The next step was to mount the transom into the hull using a bedding mixture.

The bloke at FGI fibreglass recommended a glue/filler powder for the added strength.

As you can see in the pics, the white powder turned the mixture blue when added to the mixed epoxy.

Its supposed to be much better than just using filler powders like Qcells.

I will bow to those with superior knowledge.

So mixed up the batch of resin and glue powder, slopped it into place on the bottom and sides of the hull, and also the inside faces of the remaining lip of the hull.

Then I carefully lowered the resin encased transom into place.

I used some el-cheapo clamps that convert to spreaders to push the bottom of the transom backwards against the lip.

I clamped the top corners of the transom as well, so that there were no airgaps between the rear face of the transom and the hull lip.

Then I left her to set.

I came back out to inspect the bog about 1/2 hour later and a lot of it had run.

I had to spatula it back into position several times of the next couple of hours until if finally stiffened enough to stay in place. A bugger of a job.


When it hardened, it felt a lot harder than normal resin. Should do the job.

The hardened mixture was a mongrel to sand back though.

Some pics.

[Sea-Dog]

Now I have bought some filler powder to fillet the joins between transom and hull.

I have discovered it is much better to make a stiffer mixture, so that it doesn't run once you have set it all nicely in position.

The filler was applied with a plastic spatula.

I went a bit overboard and had to pay the penalty of sanding it back.

Unfortunately the little bunnings sander died (2nd time) last time I was using it, so all of the sanding had to be done by hand.

I was using a sanding disc folded in half for this as the disc was made of a material that really resisted clogging.

My fingers were getting more and more sore as the sanding progressed and I stopped sanding for the night when I notice the end of one of my fingers had started to bleed from the abrasion. :o

[Sea-Dog]

Now the "fun" bit starts - the glassing.

I have built up the insides of the corners a bit by applying progressively wider strips of glass mat.

Since I have now gone about 3 layers deep, I will have to wait until it dries before I can apply any more layers.

[gavsgonefishing]

Mate excellent writeup on this project, your doing well. What have you decided to do with the floor / stringers etc. Are you going to look at putting in an in floor fuel tank etc?

I find that the more tools you buy, the more you can buy without detection, its a little like fishing rods really;D

[Sea-Dog]

G'day Gav,

The floor is going to be replaced too (gulp)

Stringers are going to be put in - full length, not 2/3 length as they are now.

I will see if I can make the glass stringers as per Blaze's instructions.

Geez that Epoxy resin is exxy $$$$$

Maybe I should buy in larger quantities. The 6 Litre packs are around $110

All of the new floor will be done in much cheaper Poly resin. No need for the extra strength in the floor.

If I pull the finger out, I might have it done before Christmas. :-/

P.S. I had to go out and purchase a compound mitre saw so that I could build a guinea-pig cage for junior's birthday. I will also get to use it for the boat rebuild too. All with the boss' permission ;D

Do you think I should glass the guinea-pig cage too? ::)

[gavsgonefishing]

Mate, what I would do is use the guinea pig as a mould and glass him up. He will last forever, never have to be fed, and only stinks of resin, which is a good smell. You will not mind being left with the task of cleaning the cage out.

Later on after your divorce etc you can use that knowledge to make your own lures. The lures will be easier to make as you wont have to chase them around to apply a second coat;D 8-)

Getting back with the stringers, why not go the poly resin with the biax, cheaper, and IMO for a project like this will not make any difference to the overall structure if done properly (you wont be going out hammering the thing in big seas). Blaze has probably very good reasons that I would be interested in

[Blaster Bretty]

Been Following this rebuild closly sea dog... your efforts are astounding....My hat goes off to you in the transom replacment, A top job and one could just about say you can go into business in the hull repair sector after the job is complete.
I too myself have just purchased my first ever boat... A swiftcraft open runabout (3.8 Mtr) Picked it up dirt cheap ($550) with rego on boat + trailer, It aint pretty but its a boat, it was smudgged with mould as it hadnt been in the water for a year...The old bloke got sick and had to lay up for a time and couldnt use it..its got a cranky 6 neddies on the back but the service on it came up trumps!!! Ive rubbed it back and its ready for a paint but a real cheap paint at that.. its only ever gonna be for river/ estuary work so im not gonna chuck too much dosh at it, unlike yourself matey, but I will brush it up to make it pretty...i'll keep you posted, presently its upside down in the back yard waiting for a paint,,,,Cheap paint that is..
Go for it sea dog!!!

Bretty

[lunchcutter]

yeah transoms hey i need to get a new 1 on my boat been quoted 2000 dollars

[lunchcutter]

yeah transoms hey i need to get a new 1 on my boat been quoted 2000 dollars

[gar26lw]

sounds about right

[Sea-Dog]

Well now, I finished stuffing about with guinea-pig cages and got back onto working on my long-term hobby of playing with this boat.

I have put in what I consider to be sufficient thickness of glass (about 10-12mm in places) in the corners and bottom of transom.

I have slid the deck back into position on the hull again.

Where the hull was resting on bearers, the hull has bowed out a bit. All to be expected I suppose.

I decided to try and get the hull back into its correct shape before permanently reattaching the deck to the hull.

Since the trailer is set up a bit wonky ( the boat sits on an angle) I have taken the boat off the trailer and laid it on the garage floor which is nice and straight.

I laid it on some bits of cardboard to protect the existing gelcoat from further damage. The bit of carboard under the hull wasn't quite long enough, so I fitted a ratchet tie-down strap to the bow eye, so that I could lift the bow enough for the missus to slide an extra bit of cardboard under the bow.

I wrapped the strap up over my shoulder, around the back of my neck and back down to the bow eye. Then once I was suitably squatting and with the missus ready with the cardboard - HEAVE..... Knees crackling, back popping, but up she came.

Quick - get the bloody cardboard under there.... Is it straight??? Yes. (according to her eyes anyway :P ) Then lower it down again without too much of a crunch.

Below you can see the deck sitting back in its place, and the hull sitting on the garage floor.

The tilt trailer made getting the boat off heaps easier. :)

[Sea-Dog]

You can see here how the shape of the hull, no longer matches that of the deck.

In some places, the hull had bowed out by about 30mm.

I have temporarily placed some upside-down rivets in the original holes where rivets held the deck and hull together. (with some help from glass bog)

The rivets and the garage floor should coax the shape of the hull back to what it should be - or close enough anyway.

[Sea-Dog]

I have cut away most of the bottom of the old splashwell.

I will have to put in a new one anyway as the new transom is now approx 125mm taller than the original one.

It wouldn't make much sense to have a really deep splashwell would it?

I am even toying with the idea of raising the height of the front wall of the splashwell to the height of the gunwales.

It would be a fair bit of buggerising around, but I've done that already.

By raising the height of the front side of the splashwell, it would be even less likely to take any water over the bum-end into the boat.

But then again, I do actually want to get this boat back on the water sometime before I sign up for the pension. :P

I have even decided to stick with the plated horsepower of the boat, and get a Tohatsu 70Hp. I'd have preferred a Yamaha, but their 70Hp models don't come in a 25" leg.

At only 4.5M, the 70 Hp Tohatsu 2 banger should move it along reasonably well.

It is only a fishing boat afterall, I'm not towing wakeboarders around.

[Sea-Dog]

The next fun installment will be when I fabricate a 3-part base of the new splashwell.

I will use a very light ply and laminate that on both sides.

Then I have to join the bottom and sides of the splashwell to the transom.

After all that I will finish by more glassing on the outside of the transom, then sand it all as smooth as a baby's bum, before I apply flowcoat to make it all look pretty again.

Then I attack the floor & stringers.............. :D




I'm sure that I will have the boat ready for the water by Christmas........

I'm just not quite sure which one. :-/

[gavsgonefishing]

I
But then again, I do actually want to get this boat back on the water sometime before I sign up for the pension. :P


Ahh know the feeling well, It takes soooo much time, and apparently everything else in your life is more important, apparently.

For your splashwell,

Since you seem to have adapted to this fibreglass thing, why dont you try and make up glass sheets by laying the glass over some smooth laminate after it has been waxed, then pop the shet of and shape it. You dont have to worry about rot etc later on.

Can give you more detail if required.

Your doing well

Gav

[Blaster Bretty]

Yeah sea dog... your going very well indeed.... Love how youve photographed and documented every single step right down to the wire, will make great reading/ viewing on your resume once you look for work in the Marine precinct on the gold coast,,, Im still un decided on my paint job for my cheapie fibreglass runabout that will haunt the great coomera banks around xmas time...maybe i'll see you out there???

Bretty

[Blaster Bretty]

Oh yeah I can also relate to having the mrs chuck things like old tyres under the boat once i'd turned er upside down in the yard..its great fun eh!.... yes ..no...no that one...no no a bit more... ha ha it's great all while we hold the dam thing up...

Bretty

[CharlieH]

Hi Sea-Dog, how's the project going? It's been looking great thus far!

[ozrick]

great write up sea dog .....thanks for sharing

[BigE]

Your going well seadog, here is some pics from my rebuild project "itchy& scratchy" by now you know why it was named so.lol . listen to blaze & cokeacola girl they are a weath of knowledge, & their advise & encouragement helps no end. (hi guys i know U will read this) these r my floor & stringer pics

Good Luck
BigE

[Sea-Dog]

Well, here we are about 4 months since I last did anything on the boat.

I have cleaned out the garage twice since then,and keep threatening to start back to work on the boat.

Now its not too hot to suit up. Its not too cold for glassing........

I'm gonna have to bite the bullet again.

Last time I cleaned out the garage, I disturbed some glass fibers laying around and they of course, buried themselves into my skin.

I damnwell HATE the *&%$&$#* scratching and itching and eventual bleeding where the glass fibres have embedded themselves into my arms. It feels Sooooo good to scratch.

When the boat was off the trailer, I replaced a couple of rollers etc. I have decided to replace axle and springs as they are shot.

I gave the trailer a bit of a tap with a hammer to flake off some minor loose rust and the bottom fell out of the trailer frame at the rear.

The galvanising still looks good on the top and sides, so I was a bit surprised to have the arse drop out of the tube. I suppose it could be repaired, but I'd have to buy myself a welder again.

Maybe it would be best just to get a new trailer...............

More $$$$$$$

That's one of the big reasons for the big delay in getting back to work on the boat. I've reached the point of no return. The more I spend on the boat, the more I will lose when I sell it.

I estimate the floor and stringers will cost me around $500 in materials. A new trailer is going to set me back 1.5 - 2 K. A new 70 Hp outboard around $8.5 K

I chucked the old steering system as that was pretty stuffed too.

Does anyone feel like taking over my project?

[trev1]

You've done so much and taught yourself fibreglassing, the hard bits over.

[ozrick]

Don't give up sea dog....i get the same way with projects some times ...just keep plugging away at it a bit at a time...you will get a great deal of satisfaction once your finished....as far as the trailer goes....just cut out the rusted out bits and patch her up....its only a trailer ....concentrate on finishing the boat....you have come too far to give up now

[BigE]

Hows it going sea dog ........ us rebuild junkies need a fix

BigE

[darkside]

Sea-Dog , don't call it quits yet , i would have started and not finished at least 4 more projects by now . Imagine how much you will enjoy the boat by the time you finish , and look at all the new toys you have , their not just for Xmas you know !

[Sea-Dog]

Not only has the boat been put on the back burner..... Its been taken off the stove altogether.

I'm looking for a tin dish.

It creates too much of a mess for my liking, stuffing around with grinding.

If it wasn't in a garage attached to the house - I'd do it.

Any keen rebuild junkies keen on taking it off my hands?

You will need to

finish off the glassing of the transom
remove the remaining floor
fit stringers & bulkheads
fit the new floor
reattach the deck
complete the splashwell
fit new steering
fit new motor
fix or replace trailer
tidy up the gelcoat underneath (not too much)

[geoffmck]

It's a shame you can't finish the job after coming so far but if your hearts not in it you are probably better to quit.
What about paying someone to finish of the bits you don't like doing and you do the rest?
You would have the peace of mind in knowing that you have a good solid hull under you?

[Blaster Bretty]

no no no sea dog,,, dont give up... repair the trailer yourself.. dont buy a new welder!!!
I have an old arc welder that I used to repair my trailer and im prepaired to lend it to you provided you dont hold on to it for too long, it pulls about 120 amps but is very old school and holds the current well. you think your trailer is bad well howz this. After putting a 40hp johnno on my glass runabout the trailer springs were in no way strong enought to cope with the extra weight (home made trailer you see) so once I started to dismantle every thing to replace the springs I had every bolt SNAP on me and I even had to cut the old springs off as the rusted bolts holding them on were seized! I ended up buying a pair of VT commodore rear end springs and due to their larger diameter and height had to cut the springs in half, wind them into each other and weld them together again, a very tedious job indeed, then I had to weld on the mounting bolts and re-drill some holes, buy a heap of new bolts and whata ya know, now I can tow the boat around in safety without the thing almost scraping on the ground when I go over any bumps, and the tyre's now run straight and true, not with a great camber due to the extra weight, after all the road testing my welds have held strong with no crack's so the welder will work provided you know how to use an arcy. So if your keen on using it just PM me on here and i'll look at getting it to you. I've been following your poject for some time and it would be a shame to see you chuck in the towel.
Besta luck sea dog!!

Bretty p.s im in the beenleigh area

[Sea-Dog]

A very kind offer Bretty, but as "GeoffMck" summed up - my heart's not in it anymore.

I did enjoy doing the work - just hated the flamin' mess and the cleaning up every time.

I have destroyed lots of tee-shirts by "just going to have a look at the boat", then start mucking around with resin and what do you know - another stiff shirt.

You'd think I'd have learned not to go into the garage without donning enough protective gear so that I look like I'm going into a biological hazard zone, but no....

Not only that, but everything else in the garage is covered with a fine layer of fibreglass dust that the compressed air hose won't blow off.

The glassing itself isn't much of a problem - its the grinding. :(

I wish there was a method of "wet grinding" like wet sanding - That would be the duck's guts.

More than half of the work has been done already for someone who wants to take it over.

I think the only way I will complete the boat is if the lotto gods should smile upon me so that I can afford to buy a house with a big workshop out back.

Anyone with a decent shed and some spare time want to take over a project???? Seriously :)

[jimbo59]

Where are you sea -dog if your local i might be interested in it .Pm me your details....cheers jim.

[boat killer]

wow:o i was thinking of doing the transom in my old sandpiper but after reading all this i think i'll just keep using it untill its haddit:'( and look for a replacement hull in the mean time..... does anyone know of anyway to dry out the wood and stopping it from rotting any more its not bad at the moment and if i can stop it from getting worse that would be gr8.

[Sea-Dog]

wow:o i was thinking of doing the transom in my old sandpiper but after reading all this i think i'll just keep using it untill its haddit:'( and look for a replacement hull in the mean time..... does anyone know of anyway to dry out the wood and stopping it from rotting any more its not bad at the moment and if i can stop it from getting worse that would be gr8.

The number one thing you should consider is: Is the boat safe to use?

Hate to be out on the water and the transom decides to part company from the hull. glug, glug, glug..........

[boat killer]

i'm positive its still safe enough:-/ i don't go off shore and i have downsized the motor. its not bad at the moment the process has only just started to soften and the floor is still solid. i weigh 146kg and it only just flexes a little with me swinging on the leg of the outboard. was thinking of making it stronger by putting some 3-6mm thick aloy plate on the back of the transom.

[boat killer]

hi sea -dog do you still have the boat? i might be interested in compleeting it and taking you out on the water in it;D . it would be the perfect job for me to complete in the meen time i can still use my old boat.