7 M Rollinator Real Facts.......

[Outer Edge]

Approx 10 months ago i was the skipper of Markahm Whaler ( DOMINATOR 7M ) that rolled in the bay 2 mile out of Clontarf.......Stay tuned ;) .

[bay_firey]

Stay tuned for ??

[fishing111]

Stay tuned for what...why the suspense??

[Mr__Bean]

Approx 10 months ago i was the skipper of Markahm Whaler ( DOMINATOR 7M ) that rolled in the bay 2 mile out of Clontarf.......Stay tuned ;) .

Stay tuned for what????

If you have got something to say then say it.........

- Darren

[Wahoo]

all in good time i suppose, im sure the thread will be good

Daz

[steveg1100]

We have gone through this before unless you have something new to say stop teasing>>

[fish-freak]

Maybe he's still working on his story!
If i was the skipper of a capsized vessel, i'm not sure if i would want to share it with any one!!

[Greg P]

I'd certainly like to hear what happened.

[walruss]

:gossip: :speechless::confused: :disappointed: :snore:

[Outer Edge]

Stay tuned for what????

If you have got something to say then say it.........

- Darren

Due to legal reasons, I must be careful of what is said. Friend of mine asked me to give him a honest opinion of a 7m dominator, which we took for a test ride with the sales rep from Northside marine. He asked for my opinion because I have had many thousand hours experience in cats. On this day of the test run, we had 25knot SE, so it was definetely a good day to get a performance rating. We pushed the boat on a cross wind of about 4000rpm (powered by 150 Hondas). The boat dipped starboard side down into a hole of white water, this allowed the portside motor to stall. As she began to correct, a second set found its way to the back deck and slowed to a grinding hault and lay on its side......before gravity took over. :-X Two passengers were thrown out, and myself and potential buyer (mate) were trapped underneath for some time.

Whe she pitched the first time to the starboard side, she seemed to want to stay in this position and was slow to correct. I have since done some research after this 10 months and have found 7 other instances of a similiar occurence. I have recently received a phone call from the maritime services (can't name person) about their concerns for this hull design, RIGHTLY SO!!

[Spaniard_King]

gawd... it must be good if he has to rack up an audience before droppin the story :P

Garry

[Lovey80]

Damn legal reasons...... You know we all want the dirty stuff. 7 Sounds a lot. I wonder how many of this design have been sold?

Keep us updated

Cheers Chris

[finding_time]

Due to legal reasons, I must be careful of what is said. Friend of mine asked me to give him a honest opinion of a 7m dominator, which we took for a test ride with the sales rep from Northside marine. He asked for my opinion because I have had many thousand hours experience in cats. On this day of the test run, we had 25knot SE, so it was definetely a good day to get a performance rating. We pushed the boat on a cross wind of about 4000rpm (powered by 150 Hondas). The boat dipped starboard side down into a hole of white water, this allowed the portside motor to stall. As she began to correct, a second set found its way to the back deck and slowed to a grinding hault and lay on its side......before gravity took over. :-X Two passengers were thrown out, and myself and potential buyer (mate) were trapped underneath for some time.

Whe she pitched the first time to the starboard side, she seemed to want to stay in this position and was slow to correct. I have since done some research after this 10 months and have found 7 other instances of a similiar occurence. I have recently received a phone call from the maritime services (can't name person) about their concerns for this hull design, RIGHTLY SO!!


Thanks for the report!! I for one have been waiting for the skippers side for a while( were you the skipper at the time?), all we seemed to get on this incident were various reports from various sorces including northside marine that blamed driver error( eg when we righted the boat the throttles were in the fully open position, the driver must not have known what he was doing!) I have also heard of other reports , surely they cannot all be driver error.

Ian

Ps. It will be very interesting where this thread goes.

[propdinger]

F & B have a articale in the book this month on the rollovers of the CATS worth a read ::) ;D

[peterbo3]

Outer Edge,
The libel & defamation laws in this country allow you to state what happened. You can identify people, report what was said & what occurred. As this happened to you personally, unless there is a court order (injunction) or you have signed some form of non-disclosure agreement preventing you from speaking, then you may tell your story, providing that you do not come to conclusions which may be deemed to be outside your sphere of expertise.
You CAN even name your source in Qld Transport..........just make sure that you have a record of your conversation with that person.
So give us the full story. You chimed in with some new info so go for it.

[Outer Edge]

Thanks for the report!! I for one have been waiting for the skippers side for a while( were you the skipper at the time?), all we seemed to get on this incident were various reports from various sorces including northside marine that blamed driver error( eg when we righted the boat the throttles were in the fully open position, the driver must not have known what he was doing!) I have also heard of other reports , surely they cannot all be driver error.

Ian

Ps. It will be very interesting where this thread goes.

Hi Ian,

Mate yes i was the skipper at the time of the incident, The reason the throttles were in a open position was due to the fact that my mate landed on top of me when the vessel layed on her side and caused the throttles to be open..... by this stage we had NO props holding water ....so i can tell you now that this comment was a lie...

[Outer Edge]

Outer Edge,
The libel & defamation laws in this country allow you to state what happened. You can identify people, report what was said & what occurred. As this happened to you personally, unless there is a court order (injunction) or you have signed some form of non-disclosure agreement preventing you from speaking, then you may tell your story, providing that you do not come to conclusions which may be deemed to be outside your sphere of expertise.
You CAN even name your source in Qld Transport..........just make sure that you have a record of your conversation with that person.
So give us the full story. You chimed in with some new info so go for it.

This is in the process of going legal, I have told the the short of the story, what would you like to know?

[julian1]

why did the port side motor stall ? :-/

[Lovey80]

Are you being considered at fault for the accident by the dealers? Why is it going to court? I really liked the look of the Markham dominators I heard a similar story comeout of Sydney from a mate.

Cheers Chris

[Outer Edge]

why did the port side motor stall ? :-/


Hi Julian,

The northside rep mentioned that it is a safety cut of when it has no water at the pump... but im not really sure as to wy at this stage.

[Outer Edge]

Are you being considered at fault for the accident by the dealers? Why is it going to court? I really liked the look of the Markham dominators I heard a similar story comeout of Sydney from a mate.

Cheers Chris


Hi Chris ,

I believe that yes they are saying it was driver error:D .

Going legal cause of valuble personal items lost from all.

And your mate who told you about a simalair story is right on . There has been 3 from sydney.

Cheers ,Outer Edge.

[Fish Guts]

outer edge,

Have been waiting in anticipation for this report as i always wondered what happened. Sorry to see you were blamed for driver error, thats a cop out. I asked a rep from northside about that incident, about 2 months ago and he was quick to dribble crap regarding the throttles in an open position. thanks for clearing it all up and the report. Hope msq do something about it, as id hate to see what this model does in some decent swell .I hope you recieve the due compensation.


cheers

fish guts

[julian1]

Hi Julian,

The northside rep mentioned that it is a safety cut of when it has no water at the pump... but im not really sure as to wy at this stage.

if the port side motor cut out due to a safety of no water at the pump then it must have been out of the water for a very long time, that seems hard to believe :-/
i know that some yammies have stalled due to oil pressure when they have been on extreme angles, maybe this might be the case here? if my starboard side was digging in and the port side lost power and it was blowing 25 knots with large wind waves then its a wonder it didn't roll then, would not have been a fun situation :o
what sort of cats have you done most of your hours in ?

[finding_time]

Hi Ian,

, The reason the throttles were in a open position was due to the fact that my mate landed on top of me when the vessel layed on her side and caused the throttles to be open

I thought it may have been something like this and stated as such in an earlier thread. It seems many people were willing to blame anything but the boat.;)

Ian
\
\ Here's that earlier thread Outer Edge

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=67426&page=2

[Outer Edge]

if the port side motor cut out due to a safety of no water at the pump then it must have been out of the water for a very long time, that seems hard to believe :-/
i know that some yammies have stalled due to oil pressure when they have been on extreme angles, maybe this might be the case here? if my starboard side was digging in and the port side lost power and it was blowing 25 knots with large wind waves then its a wonder it didn't roll then, would not have been a fun situation :o
what sort of cats have you done most of your hours in ?

Mainly in my 7m Coastal cat...

But have also had sea time in Noosa and Kevla cats.

Quote : Northside Rep said ' I dont know what happened you did nothing wrong it just did nt want to correct back. And wy did the motor stall ,, i asked. He said it is a safety cut of ,BLA BLA BLA.

Cheers , Outer Edge.

[Greg P]

So whereabouts did it flip ? Was it close to the ramp near Woody Point or further out in the bay?

[Spaniard_King]

The 150 like most Hondas have 2 stages of oil and temp safety systems, on both accounts the engine slows to 1800rpm for 20-30 seconds to re asses the fault if the engine does not recover, then the engine can be shut down. After reading your statement I am of the opinion the engine may have initialy come back to 1800 thru a temporary loss of oil pressure (rough weather and low oil level combined can cause this) after lossing power and the cat rolling onto its side it's a fair assumption thet the high pressure fueol pump could loose suction (due to the angle of the boat) and would cause the engine to stall

Garry

[Outer Edge]

I thought it may have been something like this and stated as such in an earlier thread. It seems many people were willing to blame anything but the boat.;)

Ian


Ian,

I had a mate posting threads on this a while ago (yes your spot on ).I dont blame Northside for there coments as they gotta sell boats,and blaming the skipper is the best solution and most viable for them .

All i can say is i would be thinking twice about a purchase...;)

Even one of the blokes who works there said to my mate (who know each other ) dont touch it we nearly rolled one in the bay a wile ago ....all the blokes on that test run got thrown to one side in a simular situation.


Cheers , Outer edge.

[Outer Edge]

So whereabouts did it flip ? Was it close to the ramp near Woody Point or further out in the bay?

From the Scarborough boat ramp next too Coast Guard, we were about 3mile out.

[julian1]

Mainly in my 7m Coastal cat...

But have also had sea time in Noosa and Kevla cats.

Quote : Northside Rep said ' I dont know what happened you did nothing wrong it just did nt want to correct back. And wy did the motor stall ,, i asked. He said it is a safety cut of ,BLA BLA BLA.

Cheers , Outer Edge.

does the Domiator handle alot different to a normal cats ie Noosacat and Kevlacats etc (i'm not sure fo Coastal as they are semi displacement ? and its hard to find any info on them) and does the Dominator really have catlike characteristics ? there seems to be few tipping over stories on this model. you always here of stories of cats tipping over (especially down here in Vic its a bit of a myth) but the only one i have heard are these Dominators

[Outer Edge]

does the Domiator handle alot different to a normal cats ie Noosacat and Kevlacats etc (i'm not sure fo Coastal as they are semi displacement ? and its hard to find any info on them) and does the Dominator really have catlike characteristics ? there seems to be few tipping over stories on this model. you always here of stories of cats tipping over (especially down here in Vic its a bit of a myth) but the only one i have heard are these Dominators

In my opinion the Dominator for one banged really hard in a head sea, which is not a catlike characteristic. It walked like no other cat I have experienced and rolled like a mono.

(Yes you are spot on) the Dominator cat is the most rolled cat and history will tell you this. The sponson design is of a mono hull with a tunnel which runs from the bow to a finish width of approx. 350mm to the rear.

We do anywhere up to 120 mile round trip in my coastal cat obviously running into very rough seas, on all angles and it holds a deadline like no other I have experienced.

[julian1]

its hard to even find a pic of a Coatal Cat anywhere online, do you have any pics and details you can pm me ? it would be greatly appreciated :)

[Kerry]

All very interesting! The age old comment that all cats are not the same is really quite valid. So was this being a "cat" have any influence on the out come, the thinking being all cats according to some are the same? Regardless of the cat hours how many hours were in this type of vessel prior to this incident?

Out of interest, Were foils fitted to these engines "when" this incident occured?

Now would like "Megatop" to rejoin the discussion, where are you megatop :) Oh and we also need to know your "interest" in this matter as well!

Regards, kerry.

[wadeo]

All very interesting! The age old comment that all cats are not the same is really quite valid. So was this being a "cat" have any influence on the out come, the thinking being all cats according to some are the same? Regardless of the cat hours how many hours were in this type of vessel prior to this incident?

Out of interest, Were foils fitted to these engines "when" this incident occured?

Now would like "Megatop" to rejoin the discussion, where are you megatop :) Oh and we also need to know your "interest" in this matter as well!

Regards, kerry.
Kerry,
What's the interest in hydrofoils on cat engines? My cat has hydrofoils and i was wandering if its a bad move having them and why.

[Blackened]

G'day

Julian, There's one 18' Coastal Cat on boatpoint. The reference code is 6CP-220-52

I've been around a few of the 7M coastals, and they're magic.

Dave

[dfox]

I read all this and it leaves me a little bewildered. Ive now logged up around 1200 hours in my dominator and unfortunately most of the time its been in crap sea's and im yet to have any incident or even slightly uneasy characteristics occur in my hull.
Im a little bit heavy on the throttle most of the time and having used the boat commercially ive found myself fishing in conditions that i probably shouldnt have been out in.
I cant really comment on this roll over because all i know of it is what ive read here. But what i have observed is that the newer dominators sit a little different in the water to mine. Mine is usually loaded different to most, with bigger fuel tanks, a 1000 litre ice box etc, so it sit's a bit lower in the rear end. The floor is also a bit lower in the hull then the latest models.
The test boats are awfully light and are very bouyant in the rear. The engines require plenty of trim to get the best out of the hull. Not as much as a noosacat, but still plenty all the same. This is opposite to the coastal cats that like the engines tucked well under.
Kerry , i havent seen any foils on any of the boats.
Julian, ive been out in most the major cat brands, the coastal is a smoother riding hull then most, it rolls more under way then the dominator and is alot slower due to its semi displacement design, but every design has its trade off's. I like them, but i like most cats.
To sum up, i feel safe in my rig and ive done enough in it to know its capabilities it'll get me home safe, we all need to remember any 7 meter cat or mono of any make is not bullet proof, the ocean will win everytime, i hope all this court bussiness gets soughted out soon ...foxy

[bastard]

Its amazing how fast stories get changed when this happened i was told it was a power cat and the salesman rolled it.::) Does anywon know the beam of the dominator.

[SNAPPERCOFFIN]

There was rumored that there was not enough saftey equipment on board for the people on it was this true?

Mark

[Kiktz]

Please Note I have gone and got some for those who are interested from
Outside Edge and will post them shortly.

He Is currently offline. Should be back up and running in an hour or so,

Cheers Aj

[Kiktz]

Coastal Cat Pics

[Kerry]

....Kerry,
What's the interest in hydrofoils on cat engines? My cat has hydrofoils and i was wandering if its a bad move having them and why....

There has been and still is quite a few different points of view on Cats with foils! What type of foils? What type of Cats? Well the thinking and the findings differ widely. I don't want to distract from the subject here so will not side track as all I want to know is did this particular Cat at the time of the incident have foils on or not?

There's been differing stories that no it didn't following the event but some have said the vent plates had been drilled. Just want to clarify.


....Kerry , i havent seen any foils on any of the boats...

Foxy, Referring to "any of the boats", do you mean any of these particualr boats that have rolled?

Regards, Kerry.

[Kiktz]

Coastal Cat Pics1

[Kerry]

OK GUYS

Somewhere in all of this we need to actually work out if this is going to be a BS thread and advertisment for some half breed or an actual real hard look at the point in question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kiktz]

Coastal Cat Pics2

[finding_time]

It's looking like an Ad!!!;D ;D

I reckon we get it back on topic, perhaps a dedicated coastal cat thread;)

[Kerry]

Looks like it's only going to be an advetizement!

Nothing to do with the "real facts" what so ever!

[Kiktz]

Foxy,

What year Coastal Cat did you ride in. Speaking for my own lil experience
the 06 Comericial Hull is a Far Superior Hull to any of the prior hulls.

Kerry,

I have a question I would like answered, Why is it that even keeping in mind that guys like Foxy love there Boats and talk for highly about them. Yet there are more Dominators roll that most other Cat / Hull Design?

AJ

[Kerry]

Kiltz,

The subject is Dominators, and in this case one very particular Dominator plus perhaps a few (more than few) of the same!

Why the hell you are bombarding this subject with other totally irrelvant crap is way beyond me?

If you want to show off something else then feel free to do it in another thread as just about none of your posts have anything to do with the actual subject what so ever so give it a rest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[finding_time]

Kerry

Take a Deeeeeep breath and slowly breathe out, repeat several times!;)

Ian

Ps Klitz

Foxy doesn't love his Dominator, he cant the way he drives it.;) He truely must hate that boat:-X

[Kerry]

About time we found out exactly what this post is all about! Stuff the breathing :)

[Kiktz]

Kerry,

Why the hell you are bombarding this subject with other totally irrelvant crap is way beyond me?

I honestly dont know what to say to you other than Julian asked for a
pic of a coastal cat. I obliged............. If that is way beyond you..... Welll!!!!

[finding_time]

Kerry

I assume that this post is about a long time skipper who has been blamed for a boating incident by both the retailer and the manufactor with the story( when we righted the boat the throttles were fully open , you make up your own mind)finally defending his reputation and giving his side of the story.

Ian

[Kerry]

Ian,

Yes so lets go on with the story, the real facts and not the advertizing!

[Outer Edge]

Looks like it's only going to be an advetizement!

Nothing to do with the "real facts" what so ever!


Hi Kerry,

Had some internet issues so had to knock of the Mr`s laptop ( She will get over it )..

Had a mate come over (KIKTZ) and take some pic`s for a Ausfish member ,think it was Julian..when he got there he had two boats to choose from as my mate is getting some concrete work done..SO thats wy you see what you see..no advertising sceems here .

hope this clear`s that up..

What fact`s would you like to know ?

[dfox]

Foxy, Referring to "any of the boats", do you mean any of these particualr boats that have rolled?

Regards, Kerry.
Kerry. i havent seen any dominators with foils, i was refering to the ones setup for test driving at the dealership.
Last time i spoke to markham (which was a long time ago) i think the number of 7 meter boats built was over 120.

[Outer Edge]

Kerry

I assume that this post is about a long time skipper who has been blamed for a boating incident by both the retailer and the manufactor with the story( when we righted the boat the throttles were fully open , you make up your own mind)finally defending his reputation and giving his side of the story.

Ian


Hey Ian,

You are spot on Mate, all i can do is give you the FACT`S.

[Kerry]

....What fact`s would you like to know ?

Foils? Did it have foils at the time of the "incident" or not?

Regards, Kerry.

[dfox]

Foxy,

What year Coastal Cat did you ride in?

AJ

Mate ive been in brooksey's one, now owned by reefking (Ty), went for a run with him a few months ago as well...

[Kerry]

Second Question?

Your time on this particular make/model before this "incident"?

[Outer Edge]

I read all this and it leaves me a little bewildered. Ive now logged up around 1200 hours in my dominator and unfortunately most of the time its been in crap sea's and im yet to have any incident or even slightly uneasy characteristics occur in my hull.
Im a little bit heavy on the throttle most of the time and having used the boat commercially ive found myself fishing in conditions that i probably shouldnt have been out in.
I cant really comment on this roll over because all i know of it is what ive read here. But what i have observed is that the newer dominators sit a little different in the water to mine. Mine is usually loaded different to most, with bigger fuel tanks, a 1000 litre ice box etc, so it sit's a bit lower in the rear end. The floor is also a bit lower in the hull then the latest models.
The test boats are awfully light and are very bouyant in the rear. The engines require plenty of trim to get the best out of the hull. Not as much as a noosacat, but still plenty all the same. This is opposite to the coastal cats that like the engines tucked well under.
Kerry , i havent seen any foils on any of the boats.
Julian, ive been out in most the major cat brands, the coastal is a smoother riding hull then most, it rolls more under way then the dominator and is alot slower due to its semi displacement design, but every design has its trade off's. I like them, but i like most cats.
To sum up, i feel safe in my rig and ive done enough in it to know its capabilities it'll get me home safe, we all need to remember any 7 meter cat or mono of any make is not bullet proof, the ocean will win everytime, i hope all this court bussiness gets soughted out soon ...foxy


Hi Foxy,

One thing that i found interesting was when the Northside rep was taking her for a spin he had the motor`s trimed right down ..Q when i asked him bout the trim set , He Said , NO don`t need to touch them that`s the way they like it. I thought this was interesting..I said you know best mate sorry to ask.

I noticed you mentioned your Hull requires trim for the best possible ride,as does the Coastal cat`s.Wy would the Rep be so sure on this .

Your thoughts ?

[Outer Edge]

Foils? Did it have foils at the time of the "incident" or not?

Regards, Kerry.

No Mate it did not have those Foils.


Regards Outer Edge.

[Dean1]

Well i have to agree, julian simply asked for a few pics of a coastal cat( I love these boats, thinking of getting a 6 metre built) so theres no harm in puttin a few pics on here for him and others to see so we all know what a coastalcat looks like.. No harm what so ever.... Good work Kiktz....

[dfox]

Hi Foxy,

One thing that i found interesting was when the Northside rep was taking her for a spin he had the motor`s trimed right down ..Q when i asked him bout the trim set , He Said , NO don`t need to touch them that`s the way they like it. I thought this was interesting..I said you know best mate sorry to ask.

I noticed you mentioned your Hull requires trim for the best possible ride,as does the Coastal cat`s.Wy would the Rep be so sure on this .

Your thoughts ?
Possiably has a bit to do with the incident. The boat i (guess) had little fuel on board and no real wieght down the back. When light like that they sit level or even slightly nose down a rest (more so if most of the crew are up the front as well). Combine that with trim right down and the boats trying to bury its nose all the time as its travelling. Add to that a steep breaking wave and trough hit side on at around 4000rpm ( which in my yammy powered boat is 24-26 knots) ,an engine stall, everyone falling forward and god only knows how many other factors i spose we're answering some questions.
I cant answer why the rep would suggest to have it trimmed that way, i'd feel uncomfortable if i had to drive mine trimmed right down in rough conditions. Your boat is different, if its like Ty's and i guess it is, the suzuki's travel well with them tucked under as far as they'll go, its a little wetter but it stops it lifting and bouncing.
The dominator (mine anyway) likes the trim more like most other cats, it doesnt bury its sponsens as much as a 2400KC or NC2300, ( i know all setups are slightly different, im speaking generally) but trim any of these cats down and drive in a side on or following sea and your asking for trouble...

[Kiktz]

Very Valid Comments there Foxy,

Do the Dominators walk like a Coastal or a KC?
Or are they by their design more of a stable run re like a mono?

Cheers Aj

[Outer Edge]

its hard to even find a pic of a Coatal Cat anywhere online, do you have any pics and details you can pm me ? it would be greatly appreciated :)

Hi Julian,

Hope the photo`s posted by KIKTZ will give you a rough idea as to the hull and deck design..

Cheers, Outer Edge.

[Outer Edge]

There was rumored that there was not enough saftey equipment on board for the people on it was this true?

Mark

No this was not true ,

However they were stuck under the boat in a mesh bag..along with my shoe.

[Outer Edge]

Possiably has a bit to do with the incident. The boat i (guess) had little fuel on board and no real wieght down the back. When light like that they sit level or even slightly nose down a rest (more so if most of the crew are up the front as well). Combine that with trim right down and the boats trying to bury its nose all the time as its travelling. Add to that a steep breaking wave and trough hit side on at around 4000rpm ( which in my yammy powered boat is 24-26 knots) ,an engine stall, everyone falling forward and god only knows how many other factors i spose we're answering some questions.
I cant answer why the rep would suggest to have it trimmed that way, i'd feel uncomfortable if i had to drive mine trimmed right down in rough conditions. Your boat is different, if its like Ty's and i guess it is, the suzuki's travel well with them tucked under as far as they'll go, its a little wetter but it stops it lifting and bouncing.
The dominator (mine anyway) likes the trim more like most other cats, it doesnt bury its sponsens as much as a 2400KC or NC2300, ( i know all setups are slightly different, im speaking generally) but trim any of these cats down and drive in a side on or following sea and your asking for trouble...

Not sure as to the set up or layout or hull that (Ty) has. So im not sure if it is the same ... , BoB (boat builder ) has a commercial and rec version..

But what i will say is that the Coastal Cat does`nt like the motor`s trimmed right down at all and i don`t now of any that do..........even the Kevla cat has pod`s to give it more trim ...........Coastal cat`s work best with air under that tunnel as do Noosa ,Kevla and aslo the good old couger cat. In most case`s the more air you can get in that tunnell the better the ride .

Also the straiter you can drive it the better it will perform.

The Dominator was tested in a strait line with a cross sea.. and she did nt like it at all.( possibly the new design could have Q..).

[julian1]

thanks for the pics of the Coastal Cat, i did not intend to get sidetracked as i am quite interested in what happened in this situation, but the other question still remains, what about the other incidents with this model ? a few have tipped over ? i wonder how the NSW Police are finding them ? anyone know ?

[Outer Edge]

thanks for the pics of the Coastal Cat, i did not intend to get sidetracked as i am quite interested in what happened in this situation, but the other question still remains, what about the other incidents with this model ? a few have tipped over ? i wonder how the NSW Police are finding them ? anyone know ?


Not sure as to what happened with the others going over , i do however know of three vessells ( 7m Dominators) going over in similar situations..

[Kerry]

Second Question?

Your time on this particular make/model before this "incident"?

?? ..........

[Kiktz]

Hey Foxy,

Gathering that you have asked for you Cat to be purpose built.
Do you think that it has changed the ride in all conditions?
If So would you possible think markham may need to look at their design
and how they have weighted it out.

Why I ask this is seems very odd that you can speak so highly, and with your given experiecne that you have not made this purchase or decision with out alot of research. Yet there appears that not just for this case but others as well have had issues.

Cheers Aj

[Outer Edge]

?? ..........
All very interesting! The age old comment that all cats are not the same is really quite valid. So was this being a "cat" have any influence on the out come, the thinking being all cats according to some are the same? Regardless of the cat hours how many hours were in this type of vessel prior to this incident?

kerry ,

It seems you find the facts a little disturbing .. Only sea time was on that day of the test run when she decided to pitch and roll on a cross sea..The fact of the matter is, no not all cat`s are not the same (obviously)...

And if you can`t run a boat across a sea in a strait line ,then you got real problems as you probably already know !

Not even the sales rep could explain it when we began to ask him what the hell was that .....He quoted , I don`t know it just did `nt want to come back did she.

Before the incident the sales rep was standing behind the driver (myself) encouraging us to pick up the pace as we had been running that line that sea for about 1 mile...Obviously that did not happen..

The only thing i can give you are the facts so i hope this helps you understand a little furher.

Ps: We aslo asked the rep if he new of any others going over" expecting" a NO ...

He replied , Yeah a couple but they were driver error..!WELL.:-/

If driving a boat in a cross sea is a driver error then their is a lot to anwser for..

Regards ,Outer edge.

[julian1]

how many of any brand Cat have we heard of that has rolled in a side on sea due to driver error ? yes it certainly takes more input from the skipper but to tip over on more than a sinlge occassion is a worry :-/

[Kerry]

Julian,

If you were put in the driving seat of a totally unknown, never been in before boat (Cat), could you absolutely and categorically guarantee you would not come unstuck, especially in first up conditions that were not ideal without any background in the boat what so ever?

In a vessel you have absolutely no background of or knowledge about or know any of its special/particular quirks then this is why I raise this particualr query.

Regards, Kerry.

[Outer Edge]

Julian,

If you were put in the driving seat of a totally unknown, never been in before boat (Cat), could you absolutely and categorically guarantee you would not come unstuck, especially in first up conditions that were not ideal without any background in the boat what so ever?

In a vessel you have absolutely no background of or knowledge about or know any of its special/particular quirks then this is why I raise this particualr query.

Regards, Kerry.

What if a pototential buyer had never driven a cat before (no knowledge or background) ::) and looking to buy one for the first time, and had taken a dominator for a test run, then what?

[julian1]

Julian,

If you were put in the driving seat of a totally unknown, never been in before boat (Cat), could you absolutely and categorically guarantee you would not come unstuck, especially in first up conditions that were not ideal without any background in the boat what so ever?

In a vessel you have absolutely no background of or knowledge about or know any of its special/particular quirks then this is why I raise this particualr query.

Regards, Kerry.

Hi Kerry, if i did not have any Cat experience then i would be feeling very unconfident in a 25kt side wind, but even in my own Cat let alone one i have never driven, i would be very careful in those sorts of conditions, but to tip over yes it could occur from driver error, but not a cat driver that has many hours under his belt (unless they were pushing it), try 25kt side wind with a 3-4m swell up your stern then you start concentrating on the driveing but you can still maintain 15-18kt in those conditions without too much stress as long as you don't drop into the really big holes !

[Kerry]

I think much of the Cat can do stuff is very much over rated to the point of exaggerated "at times" as they can/will become quirky at times and it is knowing these times that can/will make all the difference. There is quite a difference between 1000's of "cat" hours and no sea time on an unknown boat/cat!

Really there are so many variables in all of this.

Maybe the sales rep should have been given 2 options, here take the wheel yourself otherwise go down the back, sit down and shutup.

All this about a boat not being able to run across a sea in a straight line has a rather limitless approach to the whole thing, but there does become a limit where thinking has to change as it's simply not always possible regarldess of what the sales rep thought/wanted/expects or any potential buyer was expecting.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

Hi Kerry, if i did not have any Cat experience then i would be feeling very unconfident in a 25kt side wind, but even in my own Cat let alone one i have never driven, i would be very careful in those sorts of conditions, but to tip over yes it could occur from driver error, but not a cat driver that has many hours under his belt (unless they were pushing it), try 25kt side wind with a 3-4m swell up your stern then you start concentrating on the driveing but you can still maintain 15-18kt in those conditions without too much stress as long as you don't drop into the really big holes !

Yes and it only takes one hole, one lapse, in the wrong conditions if you are pushing things beyond the limits there are generally no second chances! Somehow there continues to be this thinking that because it is a Cat it will do it regardless!

All this hours of cat driver stuff is really quite irrelvant as it really has all to do with hours on particular vessel not type in all conditions.

[julian1]

much agreed Kerry, and as I said earlier in these sorts of conditions on the wrong wave at thge wrong time to have the port side engine stall when the starboard sponson is digging in and not coming back up very well, you certainly could see the potential for a roll over, but why has there been a few of these models roll over ? all driver error ? maybe and as i asked earlier (and you would be well informed i'm sure) how many Kevla's and Noosa's and Sharkcats have rolled over the years ? and by the way mono's roll as well and when a deepvee rolls onto one chine in averge conditions its not much fun either
i'm sure there are lots of factors why these cats have rolled and its very interesting, i have not driven or been in a 7m Dominator so I can't comment on there performance, but Seamedia had a high regard in there tests ? (does that mean anything?)

cheers Julian

[Kiktz]

Kerry,

I agree with you as well when it comes to sea time in a vessel.
Myself with our mono hull was not totally confident for some time. It wasn't until i did some time in some ugly conditions that I purposefully cross the southport sea way in, also being caught in the bay on the way back in.

But I would ask your opinion as I do have the same thoughts as Julian,
It seems that the 7m Dominator has had more "Failings" If you like than a lot of other cats on the market. As Julian stated yeah driver error, but you would have to think that not all could / would be driver error.

From what I gather you have had your fair share of sea time in all sorts of vessels.
Where is the line drawn if it possibly can be, between hull design and driver error?

Regards Aj

[saurian]

Why did the port motor , just give up the ghost .
Seems to me this has more bearing on rollover than the make of boat .
And if the port motor did fail why are the speeds talked about in this thread relavent ???
One motor , failing , bang and the starboard side with heaps of downward trim falling into a hole without the port motor , of course it's going to dig in let alone roll-depending on sea state.
Isn't that more likely than blame this or that ?????
Sorry to not blame a boat totally unknown to me , but read what the bloke said instead of witch hunting a boat brand.
Ta

[Getout]

Seems to me that having to go fast to make the cat ride better is part of the problem here. I've been in some horrendous seas in monos and never felt like I was goiung fast enough to trip over.

[julian1]

Seems to me that having to go fast to make the cat ride better is part of the problem here. I've been in some horrendous seas in monos and never felt like I was goiung fast enough to trip over.

cats will ride better if you can get more air through the tunnel and hence the faster you go the more air, however sea condtions will restrict this speed as it will with any boat, the laws of physics will take over eventually, i think in this case the stalling of the motor would have had a great deal to do with this, should we blaming Honda ? but the question still remains, why has there been more than one case with this particular model ?

[finding_time]

The 150 like most Hondas have 2 stages of oil and temp safety systems, on both accounts the engine slows to 1800rpm for 20-30 seconds to re asses the fault if the engine does not recover, then the engine can be shut down. After reading your statement I am of the opinion the engine may have initialy come back to 1800 thru a temporary loss of oil pressure (rough weather and low oil level combined can cause this) after lossing power and the cat rolling onto its side it's a fair assumption thet the high pressure fueol pump could loose suction (due to the angle of the boat) and would cause the engine to stall

Garry



Saurian

The above quote by Garry probably awnsers your question;)

Ian

[Spaniard_King]

should we blaming Honda ? but the question still remains, why has there been more than one case with this particular model ?

Julian,

why should "WE" be blaming anyone? We are not performing the investigation::)

Trial by media will not get a conclusion:-/

Garry

[BM]

I suggest we await the outcome of a properly conducted investigation into the incident. Rather than the Ausfish commentary teams verdict.........

[julian1]

Julian,

why should "WE" be blaming anyone? We are not performing the investigation::)

Trial by media will not get a conclusion:-/

Garry

HI Garry, maybe blaming is the wrong terminology, but in effect that is what this post is doing, but really we are looking for an answer as to why it happened ? so far we have:

Hull design
conditions
driver error
Port side outboard stalling (honda)

and its probably a combination of all the above, but still there has been others, does anyone have the facts on the other stories of this problem ?

[DR]

I suggest we await the outcome of a properly conducted investigation into the incident. Rather than the Ausfish commentary teams verdict.........

:tekst-toppie::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:
you've been around long enough to know that will NEVER happen...:hammer:

[BM]

Yes, a bit utopian I suspect DR!!! :( :(

Tall poppy syndrome (cutting them down I mean) is alive on well on the various forums thats for sure.

Anonymity probably has something to do with that......

:)

[finding_time]

Considering that Markham's and Northside Marine have been telling anyone that would listen for the last 8 months that the whole inncident was "DRIVER ERROR" even though there rep was on the boat giving instruction:-X ::)

I think threads like this are very valid , This isn't a trial but an examination and a post from either Northside marine or markhams would be more than welcomed after all there are 3 side to every story;)

Ian

[pearlbuster]

Its really starting to get out of hand...

In this case the boat rolled into the wind and sea.....which is very uncommon as most cats would usually roll with the wind and sea but the dominators don’t seem to share this trait.

Now the same old questions are asked?? There has been several events with this model as Julian has expressed. I believe to date that there have been 7 incidents reported and one fatality related to this hull, kind of makes you think how many of these were actually true accidents and I wonder if they were accused with the driver error issue.
I hope the MSQ deal with issue promptly before more occurrences of this nature happen.

[Kiktz]

Blame it this instance it a word bantered around all to easily.
As Pearl Buster and Julian have noted, that it seems no matter engine or driver, nor weather conditions the only consistant thing here is the Hull.
Why shouldn't the Markham hull be looked at?
Why Shouldn't the issue be raised so future buyers or Hull be aware of possible
short falls in design?
This is not going to stop guys buying the Markham Hull, but if it makes them ask
a few more questions to make a more informed decision, they are as we are the consumer all far better off.

This isn't the first hull that has had it short falls if you would like to view it like that. Sure as hell wont be the last.

AT the end of the day not all incidents can come back to driver error.
Some but not all.

Cheers Aj

[Smithy]

Slightly off on a tangent. I have spent the last couple of months talking to heaps of manufacturers and surveyors, both cat and mono about trying to get a boat built in survey. At one stage I was talking to a Sunshine Coast based marine surveyor who does all of Noosacat's and Kevlacat's surveying work. Could have even done Powercat and Cougar Cat as well. Can't remember, but he certainly had a lot of cat credentials. He made some pretty disparaging remark about the Dominators and how the NSW Police were now stuck with the hard top version now and there were dramas with them or something. Obviously he had a vested interest in certain other brands. Now against that I found Mark Hookham great to talk to. Of all the major manufacturers him and Seafarer's Lindsay Fry got back promptly every time and I got to talk to the boss so to speak. The craft that Spaniard King is getting built got back promptly but didn't want to build to MSQ survey without a lot of arm twisting. They were still stuck in Victorian thinking even though they are now Qld based. There were plenty of builders not interested and who didn't bother to get back. There were some smaller guys that did get back as well but they were hard to talk price to as I didn't want to screw them around wasting their time quoting on stuff once I got a feel for their overall hull prices.

[julian1]

Its really starting to get out of hand...

In this case the boat rolled into the wind and sea.....which is very uncommon as most cats would usually roll with the wind and sea but the dominators don’t seem to share this trait.

Now the same old questions are asked?? There has been several events with this model as Julian has expressed. I believe to date that there have been 7 incidents reported and one fatality related to this hull, kind of makes you think how many of these were actually true accidents and I wonder if they were accused with the driver error issue.
I hope the MSQ deal with issue promptly before more occurrences of this nature happen.


Rolled into the sea - after it had dug in on the starboard sponsonn when it eventually did come back it actully rolled over on the Port side ? Outwide can you elaborate on this :-/

[Outer Edge]

Julian,

I think we need to clarify the way she rolled .

It actually rolled to the starboard side not to the port side into the sea and wind.

[julian1]

Julian,

I think we need to clarify the way she rolled .

It actually rolled to the starboard side not to the port side into the sea and wind.


did that seem really odd/unexpected at the time (i'm sure it did because you tiped over!) but rolling this way surely can't be the fault of the driver completely :-/ rolling this way certanly chnages my way of thinking how the whole vent went down

[Kerry]

....This isn't the first hull that has had it short falls if you would like to view it like that. Sure as hell wont be the last....

Kiktz, Might be of interest to know what your interest is in all of this as really making a statement like "Sure as hell won't be the last" is very assumtive and one would have to wonder, how do you really know this!

With regards the others that have apparently rolled at this point nowhere have I seen EXACTLY how many are in question, have heard 3, some say 5, have also heard 7?

Apart from the exact number would also like to know the EXACT circumstances and events of each of the others.

If there is going to be a disection including the so called others then at least lets have the facts about the others as well.

Regards, Kerry.

[JB]

Kiktz, Might be of interest to know what your interest is in all of this as really making a statement like "Sure as hell won't be the last" is very assumtive and one would have to wonder, how do you really know this!

Regards, Kerry.


hahaha, Kewwy the "assumption police" .









baitrunner mode set... :p

[Kerry]

Wipe the snot of your nose ######

[Spaniard_King]

If anyone is in the insurrance feild maybe they could search the vessel type and see if they have any warnings about them. If so many have gone over surely the insurance mobs would have started to black ban them.. just a thought

Garry

[Kiktz]

Kerry i am not taking specificly about the Markhem Hull. Talking about boats
in general. What I am saying that there has been many different makes if boat
go over and there will be many more. That is a certain.

Cheers Aj

[Dean1]

Its funny that i actually pulled up behind a 7m dominator on beams road yesterday arvo, just down the from northside marine, it had a northside marine sticker on the side so it must be their test boat, 2 150 hondas on the back. They have a very odd shaped hull at the back of them ey!! VERY narrow between the hulls and the outside corners of the hulls are sort of rounded, as in not squared off like all other cats. Why do they lean inwards when they corner instead of outwards like all other cats??? I think markham has changed the whole cat design for a less seaworthy boat.. Why change something that has worked so well for so many years! I used to have an 18ft sharkcat and it had an awsome ride in those conditions! Never once did it feel like tipping over, fair enough the motor stalled but that has little to do with the whole tipping over thing i think. Ive been in alot of cats now and i know what there capable of......

[Kiktz]

Dean

The odd shape hull as you put it, is why they lean like a mono and not corner like
other Cat, Hey Just think if nothing ever change what would we be driving on
out roads. They are trying or have some would say taking the "cat' Hull design
to a new level.

This is one of the things that are up for discussion here.

Aj

[Dean1]

Hey kiktz i agree with trying new things with hulls experimenting etc., but in my eyes and im sure many others, theres nothing wrong with the cat design that has been providing a superior ride for so many years, why change something that works so well??? The whole idea of the tunnell of the dominator narrowing down so much at the back is defeating the whole getting as much air under the tunnell as possible concept?? I think markham has tried to make a cat into something it isnt, cat hulls cut through the water whilst air between them is cushioning the landing, not capturing the air and having a wide rounded rear on the tunnells to make things do what their not meant to do like thumping hard into head seas( not cat like at all) and behaving very unseaworthy like the dominators :-/

[saurian]

Well you lot have progressed a lot here, my last comments where not aimed at honda ( next witch hunt.. for you lot) they where based on the fact that if the portside motor stopped being a method of propulsion and the starboard side is trimmed right in , when the doominator hit the next hole it didn't rise back up against the trim of the motor. I don't have a doominator , but my boat has got 2 hulls and if that happened to me in my boat I think the result would be the same.
"Tippy over".
I do agree with comments made, that people think cats could out do the ocean
every time regardless of the conditions and this combined with salesmen that thinks get it airborne and the moola will roll out of the punters pockets is a recipe for tippyness..
But how many boats rollover if they are taken out in the same conditions and driven the same way ( beam on ??????) and the port motor fails as described ,lots .....Mine included.
So might be a case of lots of factors not just driver/hull error.
Ta

[julian1]

Dean, what do you mean by "thumping when running head on is not catlike" as this is their worst trait ? :-/

[Dean1]

Julian yes it is true that this is their worst trait and they do thump a bit into headseas, but dominators thump HARD!! I know 3 people that have been in these boats and say that theyve never seen a cat thump so bad. Go for a ride in a coastal cat and youll see what a cat should ride like...

[Dean1]

I actually meant to add that my mate that i spoke to this arvo went 4 a testrun about a year ago in 1 coz his mate was keen on 1 and he said what turned him off the most was the thumping, it near bounced them outa the boat at 1 part he reckoned, no word of a lie, and why did the hull dip down so far in the 1st place to stall the motor??? Put 2 and 2 together.

[tunaticer]

When you place the dominator hull overlaid as a drawing over most other cats the same size what are the main differences in hull heights, tunnel heights angle of entry and angle and height of the front of the cabin?
Does the dominator come in as a lower front compared witht he others?
Does the dominator look as though it would handle the same sized seas as well or better than the other hulls around?

I am very curious as to how dramatically different they may be to react so differently in the same waters.

Jack.

[Outer Edge]

Well you lot have progressed a lot here, my last comments where not aimed at honda ( next witch hunt.. for you lot) they where based on the fact that if the portside motor stopped being a method of propulsion and the starboard side is trimmed right in , when the doominator hit the next hole it didn't rise back up against the trim of the motor. I don't have a doominator , but my boat has got 2 hulls and if that happened to me in my boat I think the result would be the same.
"Tippy over".
I do agree with comments made, that people think cats could out do the ocean
every time regardless of the conditions and this combined with salesmen that thinks get it airborne and the moola will roll out of the punters pockets is a recipe for tippyness..
But how many boats rollover if they are taken out in the same conditions and driven the same way ( beam on ??????) and the port motor fails as described ,lots .....Mine included.
So might be a case of lots of factors not just driver/hull error.
Ta

Hi Saurian,

I see you have joined the post in an effort to work out what realy happen on the day of test run.

Put it this way, on it`s second attemp to try and correct it self the port side prop did not even have a chance to get water as she stayed on her side and the second 1 meter wave made sure she stayed there and slowly rolled over.

If we had water at the port prop we would still be going and would have just been a near miss..as what happened on one test run months earlier.


Regards Outer edge.

[Dean1]

What more do you have to say outeredge.. Not hard to figure really hey.. Imagine if this was to happen at night when you cant see stuff all in front of you. A 7 metre cat should eat up those conditions. I headed to the barwon banks in my 18ft sharkcat in 25kt winds when i was too keen for my own good and never experienced that sorta behaviour..

[Kiktz]

The other thing here Dean that no one has mentioned as yet,
Bay condictions can be worse sea wise (Chop) then out side,
But you would still think that you were covered wouldn't you

Aj

[BM]

What more do you have to say outeredge.. Not hard to figure really hey.. Imagine if this was to happen at night when you cant see stuff all in front of you. A 7 metre cat should eat up those conditions. I headed to the barwon banks in my 18ft sharkcat in 25kt winds when i was too keen for my own good and never experienced that sorta behaviour..

This "night time" aspect is an EXCELLENT point!!

What I have read here leads me to believe that a Formula 233 that I sold through my yard a couple of yrs back (and fished from a few times before selling) would outperform the multhulls quoted here. Sure the deep vees roll a bit but you can control that with trim tabs.

If I were driving at night in a cat in rough conditions I woudl expect a safer ride than a mono, but perhaps I have that wrong???

I remember going fishing one night on a Bertram 25 flybridge and our first spot we pulled up at was so bad that you couldn't stand on the aft deck without hangin gon bigtime. It was blowing approx 25-30kts. Too hard to hold a can and watch your rod.... :(

That was approx 1.5mtr bay type (short, close) waves and we never felt endangered at all. Well, perhaps when I was up foreward using the winch to bring up the anchor...... :)

Sure Berty flybridges tend to rock n roll in high wid and beam waves but shit, never any danger or any chance of danger...

Something cannot be right if we could consider a mono safer than a multi.....

What are Grand Marlins thoughts here? He has big cat experience also does he not??

Cheers

[Dean1]

BM thats a good thread, dont be turned off a cat because what this dominator has done, it is so not cat behaviour and cats perform at there best in these sorta conditions! Ty on here has a 7 metre coastal cat and he plans trips in 30 knot winds! He's been out in54 knot winds with 6 metre swells and never had those sorta dramas.. I am so convinced that the hull design on a 7 metre dominator is a lemon, not seaworthy nor safe and you wont see me in once of these things ever. I think they should go back to the way a cat hull is supposed to be built. Straight tunnells with plenty of clearance between the hulls, not these extremely narrowed down tunnels with no support on the outer hulls to stop them tipping over.. Think about how a 'proper' cat hull works....

[Kerry]

....Ty on here has a 7 metre coastal cat and he plans trips in 30 knot winds! He's been out in54 knot winds with 6 metre swells and never had those sorta dramas..

Please leave the garbage out of it!

[seabug]

Its really starting to get out of hand...

In this case the boat rolled into the wind and sea.....which is very uncommon as most cats would usually roll with the wind and sea but the dominators don’t seem to share this trait.

Now the same old questions are asked?? There has been several events with this model as Julian has expressed. I believe to date that there have been 7 incidents reported and one fatality related to this hull, kind of makes you think how many of these were actually true accidents and I wonder if they were accused with the driver error issue.
I hope the MSQ deal with issue promptly before more occurrences of this nature happen.


If it is correct that there are 120 boats of this model and 7 of them have had "incidents" then that is 5.83% have "incidents.."

Now if it was anything else from a new car to a babies dummy there would be a recall.

Why is it different with boats?:o :o

Regards
seabug

[Kiktz]

Thats the point Exactly Seabug, For my point of view I have nothing to gain here
except putting knowledge out there to make a 7m Cat buyer a lil more aware
and ask question prior to purchase to not have a headache after,

Aj

[Black_Rat]

$hit happens ! you can speculate on the boat, or the driver or whatever. It was that bloody Moreton Bay 2 ft chop again I tell ya ;D ;D ;D

[Dean1]

Kerry, just curious as to what you mean by 'garbage'??

[Kerry]

If it is correct that there are 120 boats of this model and 7 of them have had "incidents" then that is 5.83% have "incidents.."

Now if it was anything else from a new car to a babies dummy there would be a recall.

Why is it different with boats?:o :o

Regards
seabug

Until we actually get someone to outline these "incidents" then this number 7 is nothing more than speculation.

Surely someone has some actual background to any of these other "incidents"?

Regards, KErry.

[Dean1]

Kerry, still curious as to what you call garbage????

[seabug]

$hit happens ! you can speculate on the boat, or the driver or whatever. It was that bloody Moreton Bay 2 ft chop again I tell ya ;D ;D ;D

Hi Black_Rat,
That Moreton Bay 2ft chop must be a terror.

Is that what you guys up there tell stories about to spook the kids.;) ;) ;)
Last time I was there it was like a millpond.

It cannot be much worse than Port Phillip Bay in a stiff breeze.;D ;D

Regards
seabug

[BM]

Dean,

In my time of owning a business selling used boats I have been out in many many boats for test runs although I admit my twin hull experience is essentially non existant....

I am not deterred (as mentioned in your post) from multihulls, rather, I am intrigued by the comments thus far. I must admit that I WAS of the opinion that cats were far more capable than monos offshore (still believe that too) but am extremely interested in the topic overall.

I had for sale a while back a Sonata built cat (the yacht builder) and interstingly when you looked at the hull design this cat would have leaned into the turns (like a Markham as I understand it) given its slant vee design on each hull.

To stand at the rear of this vessel, the port side below the chine sloped towards an imaginery keel and the starboard side did likewise. This hull was however, hard chined, which should in effect assist with rollover resistance.

One will never know because the boat and trailer departed the tow vehicle and had an intimate moment with a tree on its way to the customer....... (he was paid in full)

Cheers

[Kiktz]

Dont hold ya breath Dean, I doubt you will get a reply....... I am still waiting

We must be talking Garbage.

[saurian]

Dean , Think someone is referring to 700m seas and 540kn winds.
Sounds really , well, like garbage.......Mightn't be garbage but sounds like it..
Outer edge are you saying that the waves where only 1 m , Was the intitial trough as such 1m or more in depth ?
Ta

[julian1]

did that seem really odd/unexpected at the time (i'm sure it did because you tiped over!) but rolling this way surely can't be the fault of the driver completely :-/ rolling this way certanly chnages my way of thinking how the whole vent went down

sorry guys this was a brain dead moment thinking it rolled to the portside when actually rolling to the starboard side is the way i first thought it happened

lack of sleep ! ::) ::)

[soulfish]

dean 1 leave kerry alone he's watchin the origin!(it does sound like your speaking shit)

[Dean1]

Ok, saurian, you think i am lying about the 54 knot winds and 6 metre swells?? Well call ty(reefking) a lier coz he told me this while we stood in the back of his 7m coastalcat. He actually experienced this while he was out at the swains reef? Fimiliar with the swains? Thats how confident he is with his boat! Now would you take this 7 metre rollinator to the swains? It wouldnt get outa the bay by the sounds of it.. Soulfish dont jump in and make smart remarks like that to me thanx very much when u dont have a ###### clue about the facts i have mentioned. Dean.

[saurian]

Onya soulfish , Hey Blackrat more like 3.1 ft chop, huge .
Ta

[saurian]

Ok , dean point taken, chinese whisper it was.
Anyway I fish on the inside of the swains as such and if it was 6m and 54kn I don't think I would still be here.
Ta

[soulfish]

bet he was hiding in a lagoon (catching trout of course)DEAN 1)

[Dean1]

I think ty would be dissapointed with you saurian to underestimate his imformation. It sounds to me like you doubt it?? Ty doesnt seem like a lier he knows his stuff. Do you think those conditions dont exist out at the swains? Its a regular thing out there. Where r u now ty?????? Obviously underestimate a 7 metre coastal cat as well.

[saurian]

Well dean seems you are talking garbage again.
But soulfish onya, bagging out waiting for it to blow over..lol..
No I would not like to take a doominater or any 7m boat out in 6m seas & 100.008 km/hr winds out there , I personally don't think any 7m boat other than a liferaft would make it. Dean 7m seas is not just swell out there, thought that might help your whisper a bit.
Ta

[Dean1]

Well ty is talking garbage then....

[Kiktz]

Hes probably Fishing Dean

[saurian]

I think he might have set the hook kiktz. Barbs and all.
Ta night guys .

[finding_time]

Saurian

I believe the initial quote was 6m swells. Nothing worse when having a go at someone to exagerate the original quote to make your arguement seem better


I have talked to ty about the incident , there was a low that formed of the coast;) Nothing unique about 54knot winds and 6m seas when lows form of the queensland coast is there, and i guess if you out in one not much you can do about it.

Ian

Ps. Dean

You shouldn't back out of the story , i believed it when ty told it to me ( i have heard it from his mouth unlike that serial doubter(kerry )and saurian) If these guys thinks it's bs ...big deal, ty could relate it if he wanted but if it was me i wouldn't waste my breath;)

Um we really are getting off topic here:-[

[Dean1]

Thanks Ian, I believe ty 100 percent. Saurian, soulfish and kerry should watch their smart remarks before finding out the real facts and doubting people.. Kerry has had attitude right through this topic, makes me wonder how much experience he really has with cats etc.

[finding_time]

Hey saurian, Kerry.

I think you central to nth queenslanders get abit soft when it comes to swell;) ( hiding in behind that big reef i suspect) Kerry doesn't even believe a 6m swell exsits, I guess if you have the most dangerous 2 foot chop on the planet you have no where to go with swell size;D But you'll find the further you go sth the bigger they get and the more accustomed skippers get to working with them, you should see what some Tassie skippers will work in , isn't that right Snelly;) Oh that's right Kerry thinks your a BS artist as well, picking a trend here! try and be a little less Cynical Kerry

Ian

I know ,i know off topic

[soulfish]

saurion,are you saying a liferaft is the perfect boat?look i"ve never been in a ride in a dominator,but when i flew to sydney to buy my 2700 noosa cat i had 2 nsw water police skippers drooling over my boat saying they felt safe as a bank in there 2700 noosa cat .these 2 guy's could not bag the dominator enough saying they"d been scared on a number of occasions and proceeded to tell of several rollovers in nsw.they said when it gets to rough they won't take it out they take the 36ft stebber instead.The only reason they didn"t replalace thier noosa"s with new noosa's was they were to dear.as with my own cat or mono"s which i"ve owned i think weight distribution is every thing.EXAMPLE when i owned 2 seafarer vagabond"s 1 with 175

[blaze]

bit off topic, but the day I broke my boat in half ($10000 to rebuild which include hyd steering and new plotter) 4 meter waves with no back and 60knt winds recorded by bom, I wasnt doing any record speeds though.

On the topic, the thing I find frustrating is trying to piece the story together with the info seemingly supplied in dribs and drabs with lots of inuendos in between. Would have been easier for me to comprehend with the complete story by the driver in one go, then it would have been good to have the other dozen sides to the story first hand.
cheers
blaze

[Dean1]

Hey saurian, Kerry.

I think you central to nth queenslanders get abit soft when it comes to swell;) ( hiding in behind that big reef i suspect) Kerry doesn't even believe a 6m swell exsits, I guess if you have the most dangerous 2 foot chop on the planet you have no where to go with swell size;D But you'll find the further you go sth the bigger they get and the more accustomed skippers get to working with them, you should see what some Tassie skippers will work in , isn't that right Snelly;) Oh that's right Kerry thinks your a BS artist as well, picking a trend here! try and be a little less Cynical Kerry

Ian

I know ,i know off topic Love your work Ian ;D

[soulfish]

sorry guy's bumped wrong key.(continued)175 evinrude (great boat) 1 with 200 yammy four stroke(great engine but boat just didn"t perform as well to stern heavy).as with my noosa cat remove anchor chain from locker and goodies from under bunk and the difference was night and day.difference was spray over the windscreen to having none at all.also i fish out of another 2700 noosa and they are completly different boats(weight distribution engine weights and centre cabin vr"s extended long cabin.So point is like foxy say"s his dominator has different weight distribution than a test boat from northside marine totally different boats .interesting to read the latest f&b that there are more dominators sold than any of the cat brands put together since the dominators were launched in the 6.0 -7.0m range so when put in perspective are there really more that many rollovers than the conventional cat design.

[wadeo]

Deano dont let them get to ya, reading last few pages i can only laugh that some people think the ocean is flat. Those seas would be uncomfortable for any boat and sounds like a few of these blokes dont venture out to far beyond a 5-10kn forcast. I upgraded to a cat to be able to stay out on bad forcasts safely and it hasn't let me down. Although i wouldnt like to be out in 6m wind blown swells in a coke can cat like one of these other members have. outer edge when cornering the dominator did it cavitate at all. From what i have read on the incident i dont rekon there was any fault on your behalf i cross that bay from tanga's to scarb all the time in summer with a screaming se or ne and can easy do it across the sea full noise wot all the way many times with the missus. 4000rpm in mine is around 26-30kn and wot is 42kn . 24kn that you were doing in my opinion is not pushing a normal cat to extreme you were just the poor bloke at the helm . If you were traveling across a sea with wind and waves hitting you on starboard side doing say 20kn how well would this cat corner if you turn starboard towards the on coming sea with the cat leaning into the waves as it cornered Do you think this boat would be safe turning ?

[Outer Edge]

Until we actually get someone to outline these "incidents" then this number 7 is nothing more than speculation.

Surely someone has some actual background to any of these other "incidents"?

Regards, KErry.

Hi Kerry,

Sometimes if you want something done right you have to do it your self...

Do the hard yards and reserch into it and tell what you find .............as i have done.



Regards Outer edge..

[Outer Edge]

Deano dont let them get to ya, reading last few pages i can only laugh that some people think the ocean is flat. Those seas would be uncomfortable for any boat and sounds like a few of these blokes dont venture out to far beyond a 5-10kn forcast. I upgraded to a cat to be able to stay out on bad forcasts safely and it hasn't let me down. Although i wouldnt like to be out in 6m wind blown swells in a coke can cat like one of these other members have. outer edge when cornering the dominator did it cavitate at all. From what i have read on the incident i dont rekon there was any fault on your behalf i cross that bay from tanga's to scarb all the time in summer with a screaming se or ne and can easy do it across the sea full noise wot all the way many times with the missus. 4000rpm in mine is around 26-30kn and wot is 42kn . 24kn that you were doing in my opinion is not pushing a normal cat to extreme you were just the poor bloke at the helm . If you were traveling across a sea with wind and waves hitting you on starboard side doing say 20kn how well would this cat corner if you turn starboard towards the on coming sea with the cat leaning into the waves as it cornered Do you think this boat would be safe turning ?

First driver was the sales rep (David i think was his name ,nice guy ) took her out for bout a mile head sea . He said hold on ill show you the turning feature and hooked it to the right. To anwser your Q did it cavitate.. No it did not , however it did roll extreamly fast and around to the star side..

Hope this helps.

Regards Outer edge.
I

[Outer Edge]

Dean , Think someone is referring to 700m seas and 540kn winds.
Sounds really , well, like garbage.......Mightn't be garbage but sounds like it..
Outer edge are you saying that the waves where only 1 m , Was the intitial trough as such 1m or more in depth ?
Ta


Hi Saurian,

The 1 meter sea was the average sea on that day with a wash on top.... and the usuall hole here and there...as the bay tends to be in that sort of condition..

As you know if you live in bris the bay can be pretty shity with good holes now and then ,However shorly a vessell of its size and calibar should be abel to handle a holl here and their.


Regards, Outer edge.

[wadeo]

Reading back about 7 pages in a post THAT IT WALKED LIKE NO OTHER CAT it seems the way they have designed the tunnel being so narrow in the stern is that perhaps it rides on a round cushion of air shaped by the tunnel design making it walk excessively as it rolls from sponson to sponson on its air cushion. Very different to a cat with a square or rectangular shaped tunnel. A bit like sitting on a seat as apposed to sitting on a fence cross bar with a leg on each side you struggle to keep a good centre of balance. Maybe the tunnel compresses the air too much and can't let it escape through its narrow entrance at stern. I bet you were glad to get back in your coastal cat outer edge? How well did it float turned turtle? Were you able to get right way up before coast gaurds arrived?

[Outer Edge]

Reading back about 7 pages in a post THAT IT WALKED LIKE NO OTHER CAT it seems the way they have designed the tunnel being so narrow in the stern is that perhaps it rides on a round cushion of air shaped by the tunnel design making it walk excessively as it rolls from sponson to sponson on its air cushion. Very different to a cat with a square or rectangular shaped tunnel. A bit like sitting on a seat as apposed to sitting on a fence cross bar with a leg on each side you struggle to keep a good centre of balance. Maybe the tunnel compresses the air too much and can't let it escape through its narrow entrance at stern. I bet you were glad to get back in your coastal cat outer edge? How well did it float turned turtle? Were you able to get right way up before coast gaurds arrived?

Hi Wadeo,

Mate was real happy to get back in a Coastal .

That following W/end went out my mates Coastal cat ,was like a fish out of water telling him all about it .(He laughed at me and said dont think they got a sale coming).I can honestly say we cross the wide bay bar at night consistantly and that night i slept in the cab as he was doing so with not a worry in the world

Yeah the dominator did float well but after bout an hour of so the water line did start to loose surface...again there was four of us on top of her..

They dragged her in turtle side..

Hope that helps you understand bit more..


Regards ,Outer edge.

[Kiktz]

So point is like foxy say"s his dominator has different weight distribution than a test boat from northside marine totally different boats .interesting to read the latest f&b that there are more dominators sold than any of the cat brands put together since the dominators were launched in the 6.0 -7.0m range so when put in perspective are there really more that many rollovers than the conventional cat design.

Soulfish,

Totally agree, this is why I have asked foxy about his design changes whether or
not he beleives that this has changed its riding. Making it Better. It you read Foxy's post back a bit. 1000ltr Eskys, lowered floors, you would have to suggest he would carry a spare everything. Would love to know his thoughts on his boat riding now vs the test run. I am sure they would be chalk and cheese.

The Dominator have build up a great reputation of the years and I do beleive that they up until this design have been one of the 4 or 5 tops brands on the market. In my mind they have riden that reputation and with good marketing. Have sold the most alot of boats. But is what they are selling a safe product given that the have had so many incidents.

Also I find your comments with the NSW water police very interesting.
What was their main issue with these hulls?

Cheers Aj

[finding_time]

That following W/end went out my mates Coastal cat ,was like a fish out of water telling him all about it .(He laughed at me and said dont think they got a sale coming).I can honestly say we cross the wide bay bar at night consistantly and that night i slept in the cab as he was doing so with not a worry in the world

,Outer edge.

I think a certain member will be coughing up his wheaties as we speak!!;) Shout's of cr@p, bs, keep it real ,will be comming from kerry's house:)

Ian

[saurian]

Thanks outer edge , 1m chop with wash shouldn't worry a 7 m boat.
And the weather guys in Tassie is a tad different to central offshore queensland
and if it got to 7m sorry 6m seas it would be very rare if that was pure swell and not 6m breaking washing machine chop.
So I still think garbage, and I'm not from Brisbane.
Ta

[Kerry]

Fastly becoming a post full of nothing more than cowboys! Maybe that's the way it started as well? Some of you people really need to take a real hard look at some of your stupid, ridiculous comments as quite frankly it's starting to highlight how many of the old myths started.

Some of you people are talking absolute garbage!


Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

What this post is appearing to turn into is nothing more than some self proclaimed justification and an advertizement sprinkled with crap!

Here are my comments from this thread

1. Skipper was unfamilar with this vessel having no previous sea time what so ever.

2. Sales rep obviously has heard all the myths that have become legends and apparently wouldn't know any better

3. There appear to be a bit of chest beating, ghunho attitude with just about all the supporters of said skipper.

4. In all this self justification there is this contunually flag waving about brand X which has absolutely nothing to do with the "incident"

5. All the numbers of these vessel incidents bandied around yet nobody has once produced any details what so ever. Where is these details?

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

....I think a certain member will be coughing up his wheaties as we speak!!;) Shout's of cr@p, bs, keep it real ,will be comming from kerry's house:)

Ian

I haven't even had my wheaties yet :) I haven't even got started but I am goignj to suggest that someone fluffed up, someone was pushing a vessel thet did not have any background on what so ever, sprouted on by a sales rep who wouldn't know any better otherwise he would have been behind the wheel.

Incompetence is one word that could come to mind. The other is experience with this particular vessel.

Now I'll have my wheaties and I'll be back :)

Regards, Kerry.

[DR]

Kerry, just curious as to what you mean by 'garbage'??

firstly i have nothing to add, because i have no experience in big cats..but i find this thread interesting.

we all know by now that if Kerry hasn't done it, it is garbage.
Kerry is doing his usual thing, berating people & asking questions, then, if his comments are questioned he gets abusive..

We can never get Kerry to tell us about or show us his own boat. We only get good electronic info, the rest is just 'garbage' comments..

i am starting to wonder if Kerry isn't a 15 year old nerd with an interest in electronics & giving fisher people the shits..;D

[Kerry]

:) DR might have to get a bigger bin shortly! What's the sh$t on your liver for?

[Fish Guts]

outer edge,

out of curiosity howd they get the boat back on the trailer ? did they skull drag it up the ramp and crane it on or what ?

[saurian]

Dr , I used to think the same as you about a certain member but now I realise that yes that member does get abusive at times , But someone has to call as it is... Absolute Garbage......
Next the 7 m coastal cat will be flying through the air .....Super Cat.......
Trumped up over whispered garbage........
Ta

[Blackened]

i am starting to wonder if Kerry isn't a 15 year old nerd with an interest in electronics & giving fisher people the shits..;D

LMFAO ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for a good laugh this morning ;D

Dave

[BM]

Blah diddy blah diddy blah blah blah.

I reckon thats on par with the rest of it all........... :)

I reckon its lock topic time before it spirals into the never never. Outer Edge, definitely keen to here the outcome of the situation but the rest of the shit in the topic is a waste of time.

Keep us informed of developments.

Cheers

[Fish Guts]

kerry,

how dare you speculate on this issue when you yourself do not know- A- The driver, B- His experience, C- The sales rep, D- The vessel itself.

Out of curiosity how many Dominators have you driven Kerry. And many boats have you built ?

Incompentence my arse. A boat that size should not roll in a striaght line no matter how big the chop is in moreton bay.

As being the armchair expert you are, how about you make some recommendations and forward them to msq, seeing you know everything.

If Dr needs a bigger garbage bin you need a bigger skip !!

[kingtin]

I think the most unbelievable thing about this thread is that someone is eating wheaties!:o Personally, I find the box they come in to be tastier ;D Kerry, you disappoint me ;) ;D

kev

[Outer Edge]

outer edge,

out of curiosity howd they get the boat back on the trailer ? did they skull drag it up the ramp and crane it on or what ?

Hi Fish Guts,

Mate we were not there when they tipped her back over but i was told by the owner it was flipped back over by an outgoing tide at the ramp and two other vessells by rope from the bow and stern.

But Kerry should know that as he seems to know a fair bit..::)


Regards ,Outer edge.

[Kerry]

Blah diddy blah diddy blah blah blah.

And it started with page onw, post one, waiting for a grand entrance and trumphet fan fare :)

Honestly some of the comments !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


....Incompentence my arse. A boat that size should not roll in a striaght line no matter how big the chop is in moreton bay.

What ever you reckon! No matter how big the chop is? hey? Another word might be "over confidence" as well as there appears to be a lot of that here

Then of course the gutter munchers drag themsleves out fo their holes thinking there might be a bit in it for them. There's obviously a few more left to come :)

[Fish Guts]

gutter munchers or armchair experts? you cant help yourself mate. anyway i dont want to detract from this thread. I got banned off this site about 6 months ago for posting a poll about you and how much crap you belted out, the results were damming and i took one for the team and got the boot.
I am wasting energy responding as whatever i say will not sink in. As the old saying goes, cant teach an old dog new tricks. now, back on topic.

[pearlbuster]

There is a reason why certain members like me don’t post to often and that’s because of highly intellectual specimens like you Kerry, maybe look at changing your career to be a Clown as I guarantee you wont be out of work. Great job Kerry just keep on digging that big hole for yourself as you don’t need much help doing it.;)

[Outer Edge]

gutter munchers or armchair experts? you cant help yourself mate. anyway i dont want to detract from this thread. I got banned off this site about 6 months ago for posting a poll about you and how much crap you belted out, the results were damming and i took one for the team and got the boot.
I am wasting energy responding as whatever i say will not sink in. As the old saying goes, cant teach an old dog new tricks. now, back on topic.

Ha Ha Ha fish guts,


Thanks fish guts you pretty much said whats been on our mind..

Good work for taking one for the team..:smash:


Regards ,Outer Edge.

[Kerry]

Obviously others see past your foolish comments and attempts fish guts for what they actually are/were, garbage. Maybe some of the lemmins could join you :)

[cj1967]

I read all this and it leaves me a little bewildered. Ive now logged up around 1200 hours in my dominator and unfortunately most of the time its been in crap sea's and im yet to have any incident or even slightly uneasy characteristics occur in my hull.
Im a little bit heavy on the throttle most of the time and having used the boat commercially ive found myself fishing in conditions that i probably shouldnt have been out in.
...foxy
Seems like the only people who bag these boats big time are the one's who don't have 'em or haven't spent much (or any) time in them!
If a super-skilled skipper can come ustuck in the bay in minutes how is it that another expereinced operator has never had a problem?
If they are as bad as the reports here that doesn't make sense - OR is someone's tellin porkies?
Mind you the dominators won't go out in Force 9 gales, run for a week on a cup of lemon juice or leap tall buildings in a single bound.
I'm a bit with Kerry about the BRAND X promo - it's not only the cleaning table bins that are a bit fishy....
"Wasn't my fault I was only drivin'...."

[Fish Guts]

i bag the dominator because i tested one 5 yrs (team dominator promo boat) at northside and it handled like a pig. The boats not beamy at all, the helm postion is so far forward you could nearrly do the anchoring from the helm chair and it dives into corners like a mono and nearrly nose dived when i tested it. Have seen the light and have a noosa cat which would handle better in full steam reverse than a rollinator at cruise. maybe the only ones protecting such a lemon are the silly buggers who actually bought one !

and on the side, the only reason people havent spent much time behind the wheel of a dominator is beacuse there thrown in the drink within a few minutes of operation !!!!

[finding_time]

i have observed is that the newer dominators sit a little different in the water to mine. Mine is usually loaded different to most, with bigger fuel tanks, a 1000 litre ice box etc, so it sit's a bit lower in the rear end. The floor is also a bit lower in the hull then the latest models.
The test boats are awfully light and are very bouyant in the rear. The engines require plenty of trim to get the best out of the hull. Not as much as a noosacat, but still plenty all the same. This is opposite to the coastal cats that like the engines tucked well under.
...foxy


CJ 1967

What a shame you didn't include the rest of Dave's post in your Quote !!!! He makes some very valid points with regard to HIS dominator!!!!!

The DOMINATOR i go and buy is very differant to Dave's i'm sure with a 1000liter esky( Ice + fish and bait etc) larger fuel tanks dave's boat is signifigantly heavier than the standard boat and would influence it's ride significantly, it would diffinatey have a lower center of gravity!!!

Selective quoting is for amateurs Buddy.;)


Ian

Ps CJ 1967 very interesting how you only joined the site 2 days ago!!!! Are we finally hearing from Markhams/northside marine???????....:-X

[BM]

Lads,

This is all going round and round and round and round and getting nowhere other than personal. Let it go...... winning an internet argument is not very heroic...... :(

Outer Edge, as I said before I (like everyone else) is more than interested in the case. All the finger pointing and brand name blaming from everyone else is achieving very little other than to start something akin to a bloody Holden/Ford war. Is there an official investigation underway? Who is conducting it?

I'm glad I wasn't there as it would not have been particularly pleasant...... I have been close to being capsized (was swamped first but managed to keep going) test running a customers boat (promised I would test it before delivery). Not a nice feeling as you position yourself ready to jump clear.... in breaking waves

Anyway, I doubt anyone will hear on here from the dealer or the manufacturer. It rarely happens (well not by actually identifying themselves I mean, under an alias sure they watch). Funny how people often call for their response but who would want to join the table at this or any other forum "match" where they are only going to get abused...... I wouldn't if I were they....

Anyway, look forward to results of an investigation Outer Edge.

Cheers

[julian1]

what gets me is all this talk about wind speeds and wave heights. Now you can have 25kt and you can have 25kt. It depends on the direction, and distance from land etc, to have 25kt with only 1m high waves it must have been protected from land, now with only 1m waves it would take alot of effort to tip a 7m cat or mono no matter what the direction of the vessel/waves and i mean you would have to do something really stupid, does it ever get any calmer than 1m wind waves offshore, very rare especially down in here in the Southern Ocean. and if you can survive 54kt winds with 6m swells in a 7m vessel without a worry, then i want one of those please cause it would be a better boat than the Pasha Bulker ;D

[snappa]

f@##$% ing funny

[Kiktz]

Just Read Cj's post Ian, I have asked Dfox the same thing, I would like to know
from an actual owner/ Skipper, he has modified his boat with a lower floor.

This must be for a reason? DFOX, mate would really appreciate your input,
your knowledge has not lead many of us astray in the past. Look forward to your
view/ comments.

Thanks Aj

[Kerry]

read that, a cat is useless u want a allycraft mono with a bilge pump, i wanna see a cat thatll match that ally!!!!!

Hilarious ::) to say the least!

[gofishin]

What a disappointing thread this has turned out to be!!!

Apart from the very theatrical start (too much Big Brother watching maybe???), and possibly second agenda promoting brand X, it looked like it might become quite interesting but unfortunately never got there.

Now it reads like too many over compensating skippers pi$$ing into the wind and getting personal when they should know better. It’s ironic that a few months ago these same guys were probably all positively contributing to a very informative thread on cat handling….

If there are FACTS to state about Dominators, state them instead of hiding behind excuses. I will never buy a Dominator so won’t be wasting any time ‘looking’ for more information, but why can’t I find them anywhere in this thread. Without facts the others are just rumours and blanket statements about more ‘instances’ are useless.

If there are great traits to tell of brand X then start a new thread. I for one would be interested to learn more about them without having to sift through the BS in a ‘hijacked’ thread.

Brendon :-/

[Mr__Bean]

Come on...

Come on.........

Anyone else out there in the gallery looking to dig the boots in a bit?

- Darren

[kingtin]

Come on...

Come on.........

Anyone else out there in the gallery looking to dig the boots in a bit?

- Darren

Not me :-X These guys eat wheaties so I ain't gonna mix it with them! :P ;D

kev

[Fish Guts]

. . ..

[dfox]

Just Read Cj's post Ian, I have asked Dfox the same thing, I would like to know
from an actual owner/ Skipper, he has modified his boat with a lower floor.

This must be for a reason? DFOX, mate would really appreciate your input,
your knowledge has not lead many of us astray in the past. Look forward to your
view/ comments.

Thanks Aj

Aj , ive been on ausfish long enough to see what happens in posts that degenerate like this one has. Im not jumping into a dogfight, Pm me if you need to know something ...foxy

[Kiktz]

No Worries Dav, was thinking that.

[finding_time]

Dog fight...What dog fight, this isn't quiet there.........yet

Ian

[bastard]

firstly i have nothing to add, because i have no experience in big cats..but i find this thread interesting.

we all know by now that if Kerry hasn't done it, it is garbage.
Kerry is doing his usual thing, berating people & asking questions, then, if his comments are questioned he gets abusive..

We can never get Kerry to tell us about or show us his own boat. We only get good electronic info, the rest is just 'garbage' comments..

i am starting to wonder if Kerry isn't a 15 year old nerd with an interest in electronics & giving fisher people the shits..;DI have not been on this forrum all that long but Kerry constantly gives me the sh*ts as well,he has a massive chip on his shoulder every time he gets on here

[OPTI]

one thing about kerry is he is consistant:-/ .he caused 2 threads on fishnet to be locked last week.i see his fan club is growing on ozfish too8-)

[reef_king]

All of what i said in (smallunits) post is true.Wind speeds, wave heights were acurratly recorded from wave bouy readings. I don't appreciate members of this forum saying that it's BS when they don't know me or weren't there.....I know
it happened and those that were there know it happened, the campers on the
island, the trawler guys and the mainland charter guys that kept in contact with us on the way out.....and i guess thats all that matters.

I have now got the cat and have been out in a continual 35-40knts gusting to 52knts, average swells were 5m and peakers at 7-8m (Again all this was recorded of wave bouys) and we were out in it for 3 days, left mooloolaba travelled 110nmls one way north up along fraser, fished for a bit then tucked in behind a container vessel on our trip south back to port. I have been out in alot of 30-40knot blows and experencied 5+m swells many times...if you don't belive it then tuff luck to you...or maybe you want to talk to one of the many people i have taken out in these conditions.

ty

[reef_king]

Heres a pic of a 5m swell

[saurian]

Smallunit, that is a crackup, not real sensible but when you panic the waves always look bigger.
Anyway a 7 m dominator should not roll over in 1 m seas with a bit of wash thrown in when going in a straight line over the 1m seas.
But I could see a 7m cat rolling over if it was driven beam on in 1m vertical ,close spaced, short ,sharp ,chop at a reasonable speed , especially if the port sponson was lifted up as the starboard side was burying it's nose. Add to that the trim of the outboards being tucked in or down and hey seems like outer edge has worked out the weakness of a cat .
I don't think the invited test run skipper should be at all at fault.
The dealer , should have had a competant skipper with experience and skill to make sure that outer edges safety was ensured. Which sounds like they didn't???
The thing I still don't understand is the port side motor stopping, did it stop or did it go into safe mode ( 1800revs?) and why did it do this ????
I wasn't there , the sea is different every day, but beam on is not a sensible or comfortable way to go .
And as for Kerry bashing, you are all just jealous.
yeh he gives you the runs , but apart from insulting individual members , his/her input is not far off the mark . And yes before you shoot off I've had my fair share of post to post arguments with him , at the end of the day it's all about sorting the shite from the clay. Hard to do especially if they look the same.
Ta

[lippa]

ahhhhhhhh bullllllshit dean1, what would you know............


i know nothing about cats, but i have known dean for many years, and he's a very capable skipper in both mono's and cats.
he also is not the kind of bloke to spin bullshit.

i reakon the posts gorn to far, please from here on in lets look at facts, not asumptions.

cheers

lippa

[Blackened]

G'day

Good post ty, Well done. :thumbsup:

How far out was that pic of the 5M swell taken?

Dave

[reef_king]

Dave it was taken just before entering the wide bay bar once we entered the bar there was no time for photos

[Kerry]

All of what i said in (smallunits) post is true.Wind speeds, wave heights were acurratly recorded from wave bouy readings....

Acccurately recorded from wave bouy readings? Yeah which wave riders were these?


....I have now got the cat and have been out in a continual 35-40knts gusting to 52knts, average swells were 5m and peakers at 7-8m (Again all this was recorded of wave bouys) and we were out in it for 3 days, left mooloolaba travelled 110nmls one way north up along fraser, fished for a bit then tucked in behind a container vessel on our trip south back to port.

You'll become a legend, one way or another, if your still alive?

Oh and which wave bouys again?

Geez just as well smalll units didn't mention the swains ::) otherwise I might really have to worry! Really not sure what was being implied with the comment "swains rubbish", yout got any idea otherwise you really would have been in the wrong place ;D

Say what was the date of this trip?

[saurian]

Reefking, good to hear from you , looks pretty good at 5 m. Swell that is.
The bottom of the swains , howard patch to hixan cay .
Not good to give away your spots on the internet.
As for 6m seas , well picture doesn't really do it justice , does it?
Wish 6 m seas looked like that up here.
6M swell sounds about spot on. Can't see the wind in the photo's but they are hardly breaking ??? Anyway as I said wish 6m seas with that wind was like that up here.
Obviously additional 50m of water depth and the tides must be the cause....
Ta

[Deiter]

Oh for farks sake Kerry, stop making a toss of yourself. For once how about you take a chill pill and accept that what Ty is saying is fact. If i was him, i wouldn't bother trying to justify the FACTS for you, coz you will just find another stupid reason to doubt it. Talk about sending a thread to the gutter. Please get over yourself. I've said it b4, and i'll say it again, deadset sometimes you you resemble Alf Stewart with a period.

Damo

p.s. I like Coco Pops. Have a nice day.:)

[saurian]

Deiter is alf stewart that bloke off home and aways ????
Ta

[Deiter]

G'day Saurian. Yep, that's the flamin bastard.

[saurian]

We have digressed havn't we ????
My Bums fine , just get the missus to check ...
2 minutes later , yep she's given me the all clear deiter.
Just a bit of clay on the pubes on the edge but lol....
Ta

[Kerry]

Oh for farks sake Kerry, stop making a toss of yourself. For once how about you take a chill pill and accept that what Ty is saying is fact. If i was him, i wouldn't bother trying to justify the FACTS for you, coz you will just find another stupid reason to doubt it. Talk about sending a thread to the gutter. Please get over yourself. I've said it b4, and i'll say it again, deadset sometimes you you resemble Alf Stewart with a period.

Damo

p.s. I like Coco Pops. Have a nice day.:)

Yeah funny isn't how comments can bite ya on the ar$e

Ok Deiter, saviour of being bitten on the .... so a guy goes from where ???? 1770 to Musgrave and justifies sea state, sea height on wave bouys, you might need to kelp him out, which bouys?

Anything you can "add" deither will be looked on favourably and could redeem your yourself :P

Regards, Kerry.

[Outer Edge]

Gentleman,

We are all entitiled to our comments and some have taken the matter as a personall attack on the vessel in question as it was not inttended to do so.....Simply state what had happeded on that day ..and most importantly no lives were lost (first thing)..

I am a first time post on this sight and in fact never really had a reason to submit a post...

I really felt as though my side of the story needed to be shared to boaties alike .As i mentioned i have done some reserch into this and have found some interesting facts.

Regards, Outer Edge.

[Wahoo]

dont stop this thread.........its to funny


stick it to em Kerry

[finding_time]

Ty

Dont worry about Kerry mate, anyone that knows you and your brother knows the storys are true;) You and TBB are both mad b@stards:P As for Kerry , well if he was on death row, his last wish would be for an arguement:o

Ian

[saurian]

Outer edge , don't feel guilty or ashamed , we are all about to do the final lap in the 'special olympics' that is if we have enough arms or legs to compete.
Ta

[Deiter]

sure Kerry, what do you want to know?? If i can help in any constructive way, i will. First thing i can do is say that this isn't a thread on wave rider bouys, their positioning or accuracy. It is on the rollinator and i have no experience or knowledge to pass on, hence my absence from the thread thus far.

And, yes, we know sometimes the bs flys thick on here. but in this instance the man in question is known to me and others on this site and if you had met him you wouldn't be wasting your time calling for his head on the chopping block.

I would also like to say that i have found all this thoroughly entertaining.

[Kerry]

Yeah Deiter what wave bouys would one base the sea state, wave height on (as stated) going from 1770 to Musgrave?

But also you see Deiter I didn't initially raise this thing about wave bouys but since someone else did then they must be able to state which ones, regardless of this being a thread on wave riders or not.

[disorderly]

dont stop this thread.........its to funny


stick it to em Kerry

It's classic entertainment really.A regular soap opera,actually.
I forget....What is it actually about again?
Oh yeah....Whats the best way to drive a stake through the heart of the anti-christ...oh sorry I mean Kerry.
Surely there are more important issues here than personally attacking one bloke.
Maybe we could talk about why a certain boat turned turtle for a change.....or maybe not!

[Kerry]

All of what i said in (smallunits) post is true.Wind speeds, wave heights were acurratly recorded from wave bouy readings. I don't appreciate members of this forum saying that it's BS when they don't know me or weren't there.....I know
it happened and those that were there know it happened, the campers on the
island, the trawler guys and the mainland charter guys that kept in contact with us on the way out.....and i guess thats all that matters.

I have now got the cat and have been out in a continual 35-40knts gusting to 52knts, average swells were 5m and peakers at 7-8m (Again all this was recorded of wave bouys) and we were out in it for 3 days, left mooloolaba travelled 110nmls one way north up along fraser, fished for a bit then tucked in behind a container vessel on our trip south back to port. I have been out in alot of 30-40knot blows and experencied 5+m swells many times...if you don't belive it then tuff luck to you...or maybe you want to talk to one of the many people i have taken out in these conditions.

ty

All I want to know is which bouys ??????????????????

[saurian]

Hey orderly , how did your trip go????
Patrol boat something is on the box , filmed up your way ????
Ta

[finding_time]

Yes Kerry , your very clever Kerry!;) At least you highlighted the right part of ty thread this time as i'm sure the awnser to the second part of ty post was Mooloolahbah, this was the part you asked for earlier;)

But could we please keep this on the topic!!! What was it you said earlier.... oh yes here it is......

OK GUYS

Somewhere in all of this we need to actually work out if this is going to be a BS thread and advertisment for some half breed or an actual real hard look at the point in question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about taking your own advice it's the only one you ever seem to agree with;)

[saurian]

Emu park is the closest non privately owned wave bouy .
Not quite 110 nm north of Fraser. lol.....
Ta

[finding_time]

It's classic entertainment really.A regular soap opera,actually.
I forget....What is it actually about again?
Oh yeah....Whats the best way to drive a stake through the heart of the anti-christ...oh sorry I mean Kerry.
Surely there are more important issues here than personally attacking one bloke.
Maybe we could talk about why a certain boat turned turtle for a change.....or maybe not!

Disorderly


Imagine how good it could have been if the dominator in question had E-tecs on the back not Honda's;D ;D ;D ;D

Ian

[saurian]

Now you are talking time ...
And it was calm..lol...
Ta

[reef_king]

Kerry The wind sppeeds where taken from the F/V Jeroba's on board weather station which was anchored behind the island they also confirmed the 8 mt swells as they had some that took out the windows in the wheelhouse on the second level and smashed alot of gear on deck, I know they dont have a wave bouy off 1770 SOOO SORRY 4 MY WRONGLY WORDED MISTAKE but every offshore wave bouy from mackay to pnt look out where reading simmilar wind speeds and wave heights and the figures off mooloolaba where taken from the mooloolaba wave bouy.

Saurian Don't know about this BS from the swains came from never been there.... As for not being able to see white water eslwhere in the photo Maybe cause all u can see is a wall of water behind my boat, and we're stiil motoring down the face (have a close look at the pitch angle of the boat) i am also standing up at the time with the camera slightly angled upwards, other wise u would see more of the boat.... The picture isn't of a 6m wave its a 5m swell , which isn't of either the 2 trips written about in question, and no it doesn't do it justice it looks bigger in real life. The trip that photo was taken was the last time i posted a report in which 2 other ausfish members came with me. i stopped reporting on the fish i caught cuase 2 many jealous d78kheads where giving me sh*t and I am going to stop reporting on this site altoghter cause there is too many tossers that spend all ther day putting everyone esle down then actually going out fishing......

Ty

P.S. By they way I've spent an average of 1 in 4 days on the water for the last 2 yrs in which time i've pumped over $10000 in fuel in my tanks Recreationaly and professionally

P.P.S Kerry I am a legend ...... and u know it my small balled freind:D :D :D :D

[Kerry]

Yes Kerry , your very clever Kerry!;) At least you highlighted the right part of ty thread this time as i'm sure the awnser to the second part of ty post was Mooloolahbah, this was the part you asked for earlier;)

But could we please keep this on the topic!!! What was it you said earlier.... oh yes here it is......


How about taking your own advice it's the only one you ever seem to agree with;)

Funny how the biggest whingers and whiners are those that make the ridiculous comments in the first place then have to pull their head out where the sun shines to make sense of it all. Some of you lot are a joke!

[wheelerdog]

I have not been on this forrum all that long but Kerry constantly gives me the sh*ts as well,he has a massive chip on his shoulder every time he gets on here

like wise the other week he was handing out refueling advise for free::)

[saurian]

Reef King , dean someone was sprouting how you did this and that at the swains in this and that seas .
Talk to Dean 1.
Photo's will never explain what it was really like , just looks like a swell out the back of your boat .
Sea state is so different , even within a few 100 km.
The bit about the fish, well bag out/quota out . Why else would you be out fishin...
Ta

[reef_king]

Emu park is the closest non privately owned wave bouy .
Not quite 110 nm north of Fraser. lol.....


Again where did u get the Bs from if u can read english u should know i said that i travelled 110nmls from mooloolaba up along fraser ending up around indian head not from the tip of fraser

[Kerry]

like wise the other week he was handing out refueling advise for free::)

That's the good thing about free advice, it's free.

Now bullsh$t that requires a different approach :P

[disorderly]

Disorderly


Imagine how good it could have been if the dominator in question had E-tecs on the back not Honda's;D ;D ;D ;D

Ian

Well Ian,

We probably wouldn't have 15 pages of drivel if the dominator had E-tecs on the backhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif.

The motor would not have STALLED.The boat would not have flipped and I would probably be watching some quality porn at the moment instead of replying to youhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif.

Scott

[saurian]

Just letting you and Dean1 know where the swains start , thats all.
Lol....
Ta

[Kerry]

Reef King , dean someone was sprouting how you did this and that at the swains in this and that seas .
Talk to Dean 1.
Photo's will never explain what it was really like , just looks like a swell out the back of your boat .
Sea state is so different , even within a few 100 km.
The bit about the fish, well bag out/quota out . Why else would you be out fishin...
Ta

Yes :D now that's what I call a spade 8-) your doing well, like your style :)

[finding_time]

No Kerry were not a joke! to find the joke mate get out of your well worn computer chair close all the differant pages of all the differant chat boards that you prowl, stop irratating most normal people and go look in the mirror mate!! Then you'll see the joke

[disorderly]

Hey orderly , how did your trip go????
Patrol boat something is on the box , filmed up your way ????
Ta


My trip was a bit rusty mate.
Was pushing the boat off the trailer when the 6yr old asked if I had put the bungs in....I hadn't.
Was 1 lifejacket short and the first and only spotty managed to sink a treble hook into my thumb.
Hope you had a better day....

Scott

[wheelerdog]

i don't think he can take the hint

[Kerry]

Not hard to tell those that lack confidence, hey fining time, there the ones like you who get in the dirst and start grovelling. Not hard to see when some of you lot have no where left to turn, oh what a feeling :)

Oh better include wheeler dog as well, it might feel a bit left out not getting any attention and all :)

[finding_time]

Ty

kerry sitting at his computer and saurian in his coke can cat will never understand mate, it would be the equivilent of explaining quantum phyics to a caveman

[finding_time]

Yes kerry

Lack of confidence and groveling have aleway been traits of mine:D :D :D :D

That really is funny though mate:-*

Ian

[saurian]

Ended up in the creek , but put the bungs in and I don't have kids...
LOL... at least you got out.
Missed this round of weather , just hope it doesn't start raining again..
Hate rain...lol
Lol...
Ta

[julian1]

any more insight as to why the Dominator/s rolled in normal conditions at normal speed ?

[Kerry]

Funny it doesn't matter but true it certainly is.

Anyway if this is all you have to carry on with then obviously we appear to be done here.

[Kerry]

any more insight as to why the Dominator/s rolled in normal conditions at normal speed ?

NO we have a normal resumption of service ;D

[saurian]

Time , your not an inlaw or brother of ty are you ???
Seems like the coke can is offensive, lol.....
Better 2 hulls than 1 whatever the boat..lol....
What do you reckon time, trade her in for her weight in scrap ????
lol....Ta

[saurian]

Findingtime, I'm probably more of a caveman than you expect.
Where's your cat , beer can or plastic ?????
Thought as much , armchair critic...lol...
Ta

[finding_time]

It's actually glass Saurian;) and no Ty's just a bloke, no make that good bloke that i went fishing with once, caught bl@@dy heaps as well, any other questions, more than happy to answer questions, i've nothing to hide at all unlike some.

Ian

[finding_time]

whoops:-[ :-[

[saurian]

Findingtime , is your cat made of clay ?????
Ta

[saurian]

Well time, glass it is , bung a pic up here , better not be ty's coastal craft in disguise..
Lol....
Ta

[Kerry]

findin its time to whip it out and prove you got one lmao

Only One? more like 2 ;D

[finding_time]

Findingtime , is your cat made of clay ?????
Ta

As i said i dont mind answering questions but i wish you would read the answers!! It's made of glass!!!;)

Ian

[Deiter]

Is it just me, or is anyone else having visions of the last few pages of this thread mystically disapearing???

[finding_time]

Well time, glass it is , bung a pic up here , better not be ty's coastal craft in disguise..
Lol....
Ta

I'd like to but Kerry's heart mightn't take the stress, he has wet dreams about my cat;D

There's the hint you work it out, he does go on and on and on about them!!

Ian

[finding_time]

Is it just me, or is anyone else having visions of the last few pages of this thread mystically disapearing???


Oh yeh!!! There going to go alright, enjoy it while it lasts;D ;D

Ian

[Deiter]

I'd like to but Kerry's heart mightn't take the stress, he has wet dreams about my cat;D

There's the hint you work it out, he does go on and on and on about them!!

Ian

LOL, and what's the bet that if Ty had a kc 2300 a certain someone would be asking why he only goes out on nice days:o :o :o

[Dean1]

Ok I apoligize about the swains remark.. I got that wrong but I didnt get the conditions wrong that i stressed here last nite. They were the conditions ty was in.. The photo that ty posted here clearly shows the size of a decent swell.. They ALWAYS look smaller in a photo and that looks bloody big to me!! Kerry you amaze the #### out of me! What the hell is your prob man! Your out there buddy!! ;D How can anyone take you seriously really coz it flows outa ur gob.. Saurian, Ian(finding time) actually has a very tidy kevlacat that i wouldnt swap for your cokecan. Ty dont bother mate, these blokes dont have a clue, dont waste your time and effort, when youv got jokes like kerry on here, your wasting your time.. Dean.

[saurian]

Arm chair critic ,time how can you justify giving kerry heaps when your the same if not worse ??? Sounds a bit like a 15 yr old calling a 15 yr old a precedent.
Kevla cats look better in pictures...lol...
Deiter I think this thread is long gone.....
Ta

[Deiter]

Ok, i have a real question this time:

Kerry, if you think that the skipper of this particular rollinator at the time of rollination was silly for thinking 1000's of hours in other cats counted for anything when driving a different boat, just how does one go about attaining this experience???? considering of course that you implied he was going too fast. Does that make sense???? I couldn't be bothered going back 7429384 pages and searching for the particular posts. You know the ones.

p.s. I won't have anybody putting down coke cans!!!!!!;D

[Kerry]

Ok I apoligize about the swains remark.. I got that wrong but I didnt get the conditions wrong that i stressed here last nite. They were the conditions ty was in.. The photo that ty posted here clearly shows the size of a decent swell.. They ALWAYS look smaller in a photo and that looks bloody big to me!! Kerry you amaze the #### out of me! What the hell is your prob man! Your out there buddy!! ;D How can anyone take you seriously really coz it flows outa ur gob.. Saurian, Ian(finding time) actually has a very tidy kevlacat that i wouldnt swap for your cokecan. Ty dont bother mate, these blokes dont have a clue, dont waste your time and effort, when youv got jokes like kerry on here, your wasting your time.. Dean.

People like you talking sh$t and not knowing the difference!

[saurian]

Swains point taken , Dean.
Seems like origon/night got the better of the story..lol...
I know Time has got a kevla- cat.....
Kerry will be Kerry , as we know..lol...
And yes photo's , even video's don't explain what the senses are saying.......
Little boat big water.
How did this thread go from dominator to coastal to swains to time ?????
Deiter ' beer can " get it ..lol
Ta

[Kerry]

Kevla cats look better in pictures...lol...


Someone mention Kevla Cat ;D

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/aitken/gen/bitter_end.jpg

[Deiter]

People like you talking sh$t and not knowing the difference!

C'mon Kerry, where's your sense of compassion???? a bloke apologises and you want to lay the boot in. quite unaustralian i think:-[

and for goodness sake, take a new picture.