Aluminium Trailers

[megafish71]

G'day guys, haven't posted anything on here for a while, busy researching my new boat, have narrowed down my search to a couple of 7+mtr plate boats so now Im looking at trailers. Just wanting to know if anybody has or have had any experience with these couple of ally trailer manufactures. Fistly the Lite-tow trailers from Lite Industries in Melbourne, these trailers are weld aluminium which does concern me as to how well the welds will hold up over time. See pic, this is the one with the boat on it. The other guys are Aqua Cradle, these trailers are imported from the USA and assembled here, these trailers are all bolted togeather which seems to be the way other manufactures are heading with their ally trailers. My other option is to build my own ally trailer, I have looked a several that Cairns custom craft have built similar to the ones their built for the guys from seamedia, these trailers are awesome, built from really heavy ally I-beam and are all bolted togeather. If anyone could give me some feed back on these or other aluminium trailers that would be great.

Cheers Ron

[Chimo]

Hi Megafish 71

Mackay in Melbourne displayed their new Al trailer at the '07 Sanctury Cove boat show this year. I've had their trailers before and Ian, an ex dairy cockey, is a nice bloke and builds a good trailer.

Why not give him him a ring and let the site know your findings, I and I'm sure others would be interested.

Also please could you please ask him what he's doing to reduce salt damage / rapid deterioration to the brakes, esp on elec / hydraulic on the heavy drown to get em off models. Thanks

Cheers
Chimo

[seatime]

know of 2 ally trailers, 1 carries a 5.5m plate CC, the other a 5.6m sharkcat.
they're both fully welded jobs by the same custom builder. the one carrying the CC had a couple of weld probs that were rectified and no probs since, it doesn't get completely dunked.
the cat trailer had a corrosion issue where the axles were fitted, one axle actually came away all together, this could have been avoided of course if insulating material had been used and more maintenance. otherwise it has had no other structural failures, it gets dunked regularly.
neither of these trailers travel long distances, long periods of vibration may create more probs.
I like the idea of the bolt together ones, fatigue at sub-frame welds is eliminated.
still a bit of a ? on the electrolysis/galvanic corrosion issues.
maybe a metalurgist can offer some insight and solutions?

[megafish71]

Thanks Chimo, I spoke to the guys from Mackay Trailers at Sanctury Cove this year, and looked over their new trailer. The one they had on display still needed a lot of refinement (only early days for ally trailers for Mackay but Im sure they will get them rite in the end). I wasn't happy with the fact that they still use gal angle to make a roller ladder to support the keel. When I asked about making a full skid ally trailer they hadn't built one at that stage and thought that the roller ladder set up would be better. Better for who, as I want to get away from rollers all togeather on my next trailer. By the way the price I was quoted for that trailer was $18K. I also thought that was a bit over the top for what it was made from, seeing that I could buy all of the material to build that trailer including all brakes etc for just under $8k and that is at retail prices, But I spose its like everything if somebody is willing to pay that much then thats the price.

Cheers Ron

[megafish71]

G'day Gelsec, any idea on the brands of these trailers.

Ron

[Noelm]

why would you worry about a welded trailer?? how do you think you boat is held together?? if the trailer is properly constructed it will outlast 10 steel trailers (also welded together)

[Wahoo]

there is no probs with welded alloy trailers,

have you checked out www.duralum.com.au

Daz

[freddofrog]

Depending on your reason for wanting an alloy trailer you might want to also check what the other trailer components made out of.

I totally submerge my trailer to drive on/off my cat so not only is it alloy but it has stainless brakes (cost me $1500 fitted :( ) and s/s hydraulic lines with a torsion axle suspension setup (no leaf springs to rust!).

I still thoroughly hose the trailer down after use regardless but better to be safe than sorry.

cya
ff

[Reef_fisher]

I would have thought the welded trailer would be better as the bolts used would be steel. The whole idea of getting away from steel trailer is corrosion. Alloy takes longer to corrode. Also the steel bolts would cause the bolt holes to flog out with the alloy being softer. Flogged out holes would be impossible to see unless trailer is pulled apart. Simplistic view I know, just my 2 cents worth. I realise some parts would have to be non alloy for strength(tow hitch axle etc) but less steel more alloy less probs.

[Owen]

why would you worry about a welded trailer?? how do you think you boat is held together?? if the trailer is properly constructed it will outlast 10 steel trailers (also welded together)

I would worry about an aluminium trailer because aluminium is prone to cracking in situations where it flexes or vibrates badly.
The keyword in your statements is "Properly Constructed".
Without even going into stuff like the Youngs Modulus values of aluminium as compared to steel, you have to consider that to have equal strength to steel, an aluminium component must be a great deal bigger and/or thicker.
The trouble is that most of the trailers I have seen constructed from aluminium have simple sibstituted a similar sized aluminium section for the commonly used steel section (albeit generally thicker). This results in a trailer that will carry less load and will fail sooner. Especially in places where they have welded across the load bearing face of the section. A good example of proper welding technique in areas under high stress is to have a look at the gussets on a motorbike frame. You will note that to avoid a "stiff" spot where stresses will be concentrated, they deliberately only weld on some of the faces, not all the way around. In many cases, a well designed bolted together structure will suffer less stress fractures than a welded structure, because the bolts don't stop the structure from flexing naturally.

On the other hand, if they have made the aliminium heavy enough to equal the steel trailer in strength, then the weight will be similar to the steel unit, but the price will be many times higher.
Then you have the whole other issue of galvanic reaction in the areas like spring hanger attatchments where you must use steel.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but all have to be addressed.
Of those pictures, I like the looks of the I beam section model, but I'd want a whole lot of info about it before I'd sign up.

I worked in the aluminium fabrication industry for many years, but in this application I'd be hard to convince to by an ally trailer.

[Kerry]

Welded alloy trailers are not a problem and as for bolted versions, well with the yanks still haven't cottoned on that alloy boats are used in saltwater (shock horror) and they tend to think they are only fresh water boats.

Really all this thinking that welded alloy trailers are somehow inferior to bolted versions is quite strange thinking? Next time ya driving down the highway just take particular notice of many of the semi trailers, fuel tankers etc these days.

Regards, KErry.

[megafish71]

there is no probs with welded alloy trailers,

have you checked out www.duralum.com.au (http://www.duralum.com.au)

Daz


Daz, Duralum trailers are the same as the Aqua Craddle trailers and are fully bolted togeather. The pricing from both companies are the same but with Aqua Craddle being in Sydney and Duralum in Melbourne one would think that freight from Sydney to North Queensland would be cheaper than from Melbourne.

Ron

[megafish71]

Depending on your reason for wanting an alloy trailer you might want to also check what the other trailer components made out of.

I totally submerge my trailer to drive on/off my cat so not only is it alloy but it has stainless brakes (cost me $1500 fitted :( ) and s/s hydraulic lines with a torsion axle suspension setup (no leaf springs to rust!).

I still thoroughly hose the trailer down after use regardless but better to be safe than sorry.

cya
ff

I hear you, the costs of brake and axles is quite high, this is where most of the money is. If I build my own ally trailer similar to the ones that Cairns Custom Craft are building the Aluminium will only cost just over $2k is the rest of the bits that add up. I priced Alko torsion bar axles to suit $1300ea including bronzed rotors. Then we have 4 x ss hydrolic callipers + brake lines approx $1000. Then we have the sensorbrake brake away System $2600 + car kit $500 then tow hitch, winch, jockey wheel, trailer lights etc. total costs approx 11K. Most of the steel trailers I have priced to suit the size and weight of boat have been in the $12.5k th $14k mark so it is making the option of building my own ally tralier look very attractive.

[cormorant]

Check out sailfish - ie sailfish trailers. at least these guys know ally. They have already been down the track of wrong design but seem to have a much more rigid trailer now with a lot of cross bracing compared to others I have seen. They have used them for boats up to 2-3 tonne ally for several years now. Some now have 4 sets of axels but not sure if that is a ride thing or a weight thing or a trailer that is just too long to be supported by 3 axels with all the flex. But that's starting to defeat the purpose and with 8 bearings get complicated.

Anyone thought of the nyialac (spelling) coatings for a trailer to give it yet more protection for an ally.

Will an annode work on a trailer- steel or ally???


Not a fan of the dura axel suspension but ok if not on rough roads or high speeds as I just think it is too hard on the boat and not enough travel. I like the lower maintainance and ride / launch height and if was only doing short distance would be good.

If the right dimensions and designed for the right use I would always go welded but I don't know enough about the I-beam metalurgy to consider that at this stage. Do they roll those I beams into the curves hot or cold- hope it's hot out of the mill as ally fatigues. Might not lose much strength at curve but it will corrode ther quicker due to the rolling stress when bent if ut was cold. For a smaller lightweight boat a Ally trailer is a definate something to consider. Larger boats - not sure enough mistakes have been made yet to know you're getting a good one. For cats near the weight limit you don't have alot of choice really apart from buy a truck to tow it with if you go for triaxel steel.

You can isolate steel springs, steel mounts hangers and ubolts with a polyprop sheet and I love the idea or bronze/ stainless discs with bronze or stainless calipers. check out Kodiac discs and calipers

Check out Titan elect - hydraulic brakes as well.

http://www.kodiaktrailer.com/content/view/13/30/

Site to check trailer parts prices
http://www.marshall-eng.com.au/

[megafish71]

Welded alloy trailers are not a problem and as for bolted versions, well with the yanks still haven't cottoned on that alloy boats are used in saltwater (shock horror) and they tend to think they are only fresh water boats.

Really all this thinking that welded alloy trailers are somehow inferior to bolted versions is quite strange thinking? Next time ya driving down the highway just take particular notice of many of the semi trailers, fuel tankers etc these days.

Regards, KErry.

Quite rite Kerry, but the big diifence here is that the tipper bodies and tankers are sitting on very large framed steel chassis and not on ally chassis, my main concern with the welded ally trailer is fatigue cracking around the welds, this is why Cairns Custom Craft went away from welding load bearing areas.

Ron

[Wahoo]

Daz, Duralum trailers are the same as the Aqua Craddle trailers and are fully bolted togeather. The pricing from both companies are the same but with Aqua Craddle being in Sydney and Duralum in Melbourne one would think that freight from Sydney to North Queensland would be cheaper than from Melbourne.

Ron

ok, sorry Ron, saw an add on the trailer boat magazine ;)

Daz

[Noelm]

hey 'owen" are you saying that a boat does NOT flex and vibrate? in many ways a boat probably gets more "torture" than the trailer, but it is true, it needs to be properly constructed and you should have no problem, there have been Alloy cat trailers around for years and I have yet to see one broken (though I have seen one bent)

[cormorant]

Just one other point about the dura or alko tortion systems.

With properly set up floating springs on a dual or triaxel they load share and balance the trailer front to back. I have seen many tortion systems in use and they don't . This can put extreme loads on a single axel or on a single tyre when you go over a gutter or when reversing over the hump on a ramp let alone speed humps etc.

If you tow with different vehicles or have a different load in your tow vehicle your hitch height becomes very important. too low and all the weight is on the front axel of the trailer and too high and it is all on the back. In storage it is also important to keep them level so all suspension is under similar tension. Jockey wheel is better moyunted back away from the gooseneck a bit if possible like it is on cat trailers.

Under brakes it is also important to consider this all load will transfer to front axel so must be suitably rated if no load sharing is possible.


Just one other point. If you are going down the self build track and it is a braked or not trailer I would get an engineer to sign off on the design to protect yourself from those nasty insurance people. I don't mean the blue slip engineer I mean a proper engineer. I notice alot of so called ally trailer manufacturers will build to there or your design but won't actually give you engineering drawings or any form of guarantee unlike steel trailer manufacturers. This had to do with a lot of unknowns. The bigger workshops will be TIG not just migg so there can be a huge difference in weld quality and cost.

Boats are overdesigned to hell generally and need to be especially if trailered due to point loads. They are re-enforced and minimise flex over short distances if done correctly. Structural ally is a different creature and on a trailer we are talking longer lenghts and less natural reinforcing points . I have seen ally trailers so flexible that without a boat strapped on them they are like a banana with a twist and that can only lead to fatigue of both trailer and hull. Ally cat trailers have an advantage that they can have a structural latice up the tunnel of the trailer which adds depth to the whole trailer and some rigidity.

I think seamedia boat trailer sufferred blowouts on front or rear axel tyre due to the above.

[Owen]

hey 'owen" are you saying that a boat does NOT flex and vibrate? in many ways a boat probably gets more "torture" than the trailer, but it is true, it needs to be properly constructed and you should have no problem, there have been Alloy cat trailers around for years and I have yet to see one broken (though I have seen one bent)

Noel,
If I was saying that boats do not flex or vibrate then that's exactly what I would have written. You asked what reservation I had about the application of aluminium for a trailer and I gave them.
A short search of this forum will indicate that alloy boats do indeed flex and vibrate. And guess where they crack?

BTW, there's no need for inverted comma's around my name. It is my name, not a nom de plume.

[Noelm]

OK, no offense intended.

[seabug]

Here are a couple of Tassie Aluminium trailers.
Regards
seabug

[Mr__Bean]

Mega,

Not sure what hull you are looking at but can I ask what makes you look toward an ally trailer?

I have an 8 metre platey and I tow it around quite happily on a steel lightweight I-beam trailer, as they do in WA where they have been towing them around on steel lightweight trailers for years before plateys became popular over here on the east coast (photo below).

In a boat this size you a sh$t load of strength in the boat, all you need do is hold the trailer up under it at the right locations.

Mine weighs about 500 Kgs, usual dual axle dual brake etc. It has parabolic springs and I have towed it all over the place Vic, SA, and now QLD.

Not sure where you are but I am Brisbane northside and you are welcome to come and have a look.

- Darren

[seatime]

G'day Gelsec, any idea on the brands of these trailers.

Ron

Ron, the builder has now moved on from boats and trailers. Some good points made in other posts, plenty to consider, good luck with it.
btw, the cat trailer with it's construction style has minimal flex compared to the mono trailer.

regards
Steve

[saurian]

Megafish , go the ccc trailer , tried and proven .
Unless your bush bashing don't let the flex issue get out of control.
Yeh an alloy trailer up the cape or the gibb road will crack up .
But general east coast roads will be fine.
I have seen a few under cats , one especially under a coastal cat at airlie , can't remember the name but.
Also reef marine in mackay get a few made up for the kevla's and I've seen one under a 2800 that looked real good.
At least with alloy if it does crack it can be rebraced and weld her up some more.
But like ccc seamedia jobby , get done once , pay the money and enjoy..
Ta

[saurian]

Seems I've doubled up here , It's not the computers fault only the idiot using it ...
Lol
Cororant , point taken about load share but not a good example used...
Ta

[saurian]

Hey cormorant , better read the article again about seamedia. Yeh he took the trailer out with sugarized ( f...ed old tyres ) beyond there use by date and put a different boat than what the trailer was originally designed for , on it .
And hey bingo , he drove a front heavy trailer on f...ed tyres at 100 km/hr and what happened ?? If you go past the Hervey bay turnoff it becomes the bruce highway and the road turns into a highway not a motorway.
But after all this the trailer is fine , still going.
Ta

[madmackrel]

;D Hey Guys , built this ally trailer seven years ago for $2,000.00 t6 c section bullbar material , no problems what so ever your quite welcome to come and have alook if your in the area. Will post some better pics tomorrow.

Cheers MM

[Kerry]

One 17 year old alloy trailer, ATM 3.1 tonne

There are probably 2 types of trailer people? Those that have never had an alloy trailer and don't know and those that have and wonder how the hell anybody would ever want to have a steel trailer again!

And for those mono people then the solution is simple isn't it :)

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user\aitken\gen\trailer_w3.jpg

[saurian]

Lot's of rusting and Cracking of that trailer Kerry , lol.......
Must be reasonable boat to need vacumn setup ????.
Ta

[2IC]

Hi guys

I have a 7.6m plate boat that is sitting on a alloy trailer. It was custom built to suit the boat, out of heavy I beam. It is welded and have no issue with cracking welds. The boat weighs a fair bit with 500+ literes of fuel, however even with this weight there dosnt seem to be any flex.
I recently returned from fraser island so it did get a good work out.
I hope this helps you.
Cheers

[megafish71]

Thanks for all the input guys, I am keen to get away from a steel trailer. This new boat I am intending to have for many years, and don't want to have to replace a flogged out rusting trailer in the future. I am keen on the CCC style ally trailer as it is very simple to make. Just don't understand how they can justify the huge cost. My mate payed 22k for the trailer under his 8mtr haines. I have access to this trailer to use as a template (he will just tie the boat up to his pontoon out the front of his house). Some pics of Mad mackrel and 2IC trailers would be handy.

Cheers Ron

[walruss]

Mega,

Markham are making their own alloy trailers for their Dominator Cats. I saw one a couple of years ago, and it certainly used some large section to hold the weight. Appeared to be very strong. Don't know about the durability issues raised though. If you check out this link it might be of help

http://www.markhammarine.com.au/trailers.html

Russ

[finding_time]

I would worry about an aluminium trailer because aluminium is prone to cracking in situations where it flexes or vibrates badly.
The keyword in your statements is "Properly Constructed".
Without even going into stuff like the Youngs Modulus values of aluminium as compared to steel, you have to consider that to have equal strength to steel, an aluminium component must be a great deal bigger and/or thicker.
The trouble is that most of the trailers I have seen constructed from aluminium have simple sibstituted a similar sized aluminium section for the commonly used steel section (albeit generally thicker). This results in a trailer that will carry less load and will fail sooner. Especially in places where they have welded across the load bearing face of the section. A good example of proper welding technique in areas under high stress is to have a look at the gussets on a motorbike frame. You will note that to avoid a "stiff" spot where stresses will be concentrated, they deliberately only weld on some of the faces, not all the way around. In many cases, a well designed bolted together structure will suffer less stress fractures than a welded structure, because the bolts don't stop the structure from flexing naturally.

On the other hand, if they have made the aliminium heavy enough to equal the steel trailer in strength, then the weight will be similar to the steel unit, but the price will be many times higher.
Then you have the whole other issue of galvanic reaction in the areas like spring hanger attatchments where you must use steel.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but all have to be addressed.
Of those pictures, I like the looks of the I beam section model, but I'd want a whole lot of info about it before I'd sign up.

I worked in the aluminium fabrication industry for many years, but in this application I'd be hard to convince to by an ally trailer.


Owen

This was my attitude until recently. I brought a kevlacat with an alloy trailer and appart from a issue with the fence( unsure if this is the correct term) it was poorly designed the trailer is in perfect condition . I have looked at every weld on the trailer there is no sign of repair or cracking infact appart from a little dulling of the alloy it looks brand new. This is very impressive considering it was made in october 1989:o . What would a gal trailer look like after that period, if it still existed! As for weight the trailer weights 230kg and i can roll it around with one hand, it has al-co axles, and i'm totally sold on the package :D

Ian

[finding_time]

Giday Kerry

Your pic below obviously come out of the same factory as mine, in fact if it didn't have the vaccum brakes it would be wondering how you got a photo of my trailer, 17 years old puts it at the same vintage as well. This trailer really changed my opinions of alloy trailer as mine is as new;)

Ian

[Owen]

Guys,
I still stand by my views at this point.
You will notice that all the success stories with aluminium trailers are those designed for cats and which incorporate a triangulated "bridge" type structure which extends some distance in the vertical plane above the chassis proper.
As I said earlier, if you have the right design, then it will work.
The original post was asking about a trailer for a mono hull boat. They are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

[Kerry]

Owen,

Yes a cat trailer is better suited as such but I think the main difference between a steel mono trailer and an alloy mono trailer is the what people today "expect" a mono trailer to look like. If you expect it to look the same, all multi roller wobblers and and all then maybe it's not time to graduate to an alloy trailer.

Alloy mono trailers are probably more suited to the age old "bunk" box design?

Probably trying to engineer an alloy trailer along the lines of the current multi-roller design would be costly but done to a proper design not an expectation then the cost would be more but the savings would be more than 3 fold.

I believe there has to be a change in thinking!

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

Giday Kerry

Your pic below obviously come out of the same factory as mine, in fact if it didn't have the vaccum brakes it would be wondering how you got a photo of my trailer, 17 years old puts it at the same vintage as well. This trailer really changed my opinions of alloy trailer as mine is as new;)

Ian

Yes it would have been made by SeaTorque marine. One thing is for sure once you have an alloy trailer you really wonder how the hell you ever ever suffered a steel trailer.

I really do not know if I could go back to all the hassles with a steel trailer? Regardless!

[madmackrel]

Ron mate , do yourself a favour get an ally trailer. mine all up BMT 1800kg if built properly and out ot the right material it will last forever even if it is a MONO hull;D Cheers MM

[megafish71]

Thanks for the pics MM, I notice that the where the cross members are welded to the main chassis that there is no welds a on the verticals, this is something I was advised to do if I build a ally trailer. By not having any vertical welds in these areas it allows everthing to flex without causing fatigue cracking in the welds or main chassis.

Cheers Ron

[madmackrel]

;D G day Ron the section you are talking about does not have a vertical weld it is only a brace that goes inside the c sect above the spring slipper bkt, just a bit of added engineering all other verticals are welded

Cheers MM8-)

[seabug]

I would have thought the welded trailer would be better as the bolts used would be steel. The whole idea of getting away from steel trailer is corrosion. Alloy takes longer to corrode. Also the steel bolts would cause the bolt holes to flog out with the alloy being softer. Flogged out holes would be impossible to see unless trailer is pulled apart. Simplistic view I know, just my 2 cents worth. I realise some parts would have to be non alloy for strength(tow hitch axle etc) but less steel more alloy less probs.


I spent some time with the Product Manager for the imported trailers at the Boat Show yesterday.
He explained that the reason they are able to bolt them together successfully is that the special aluminium used has a nickel content of 30%.

The nickel hardens the alloy and also allows it extra flexability without damage.
The bolts used are stainless.
Except for galv.U-bolts to hold the winch/post
One thing I found interesting about the set-up was the American made radial tyres.
Each has a load rating of 1300KG

Regards
seabug

[Owen]

He explained that the reason they are able to bolt them together successfully is that the special aluminium used has a nickel content of 30%.



30% nickel in aluminium?
316 stainless only has 10-14%
Any references available on these trailers?
Web site etc.

[seabug]

30% nickel in aluminium?
316 stainless only has 10-14%
Any references available on these trailers?
Web site etc.

Hi Owen
Jorge said that it was a special Alloy made in USA and very costly.
I have his card here but do not like posting peoples phone numberts on web without their permission..

The website is www.duralum.com.au (http://www.duralum.com.au)

Regards
seabug

[Owen]

G'day seabug,
I had a look.. thanks.
Can't see any specs on the alloy, but I have to doubt that figure.
Assuming you could ally it at that percentage, nickel is very heavy so you would lose much of the benefits of aluminium.

Not saying it's not true, but it is certainly well outside the norm.
Most alumium alloys only have 1-2% of other metals such as copper etc.

[seabug]

Hi Owen,
Perhaps the % I said,if wrong, is my mistake.

But it was definately the nickel content that Jorge said gave it the strenght and flexibility to be able to be bolted.

He also said that tests had proven that where the main beams are bent/formed the alloy is harder ,not softer ,as with normal alum alloy.
And that this was because of the high nickel content.

They have a Direct Call number if you want to check it out.
It is 1800 892 453

Regards
seabug

[seabug]

You can see the bends that I am talking about in these pics.

Regards
seabug

[megafish71]

Thanks for the info Seabug,

After looking over the trailers and speeking with the guys what is you opinion of this particular brand.

Cheers Ron

[seabug]

Thanks for the info Seabug,

After looking over the trailers and speeking with the guys what is you opinion of this particular brand.

Cheers Ron

Hi Ron,
I would certainly put it on my shortlist.
Then it would come down to who did the best deal.

The trailer seems to be very well built,and the bolts allow it to flex,which seems a good thing.

The long alloy beams also appear solid and the bunk design should make loading easy. Note that I have not seen one on the ramp.

Tyres are 1300kg weighted" American Trail"

The brakes are up to 12inch discs and are rust proofed,
I think it is cadmium plating.

I have no idea how it would go if it was going to get a thrashing Borroloola way,but with normal use it should be OK.

Regards
seabug

PS check your pm.