Remote Snorkles For Cat Engines?

[Narby_Pup]

Does anyone now of someone that makes snorkles for engines.I am having trouble with my engines on my noosa cat sucking in to much salt air and after 2 trips i have to remove carbies and clean out.If any one has had similar problems would appreciate info on any fixes.

[Noelm]

hhhmmm I have had cats for over 25 years and never had any drama, are you getting water IN the carbies?? if so, then I doubt that it is being "sucked" in,what sort of engines are they?

[snappa]

yes most cats suck in water my was no different ...

i did the snorkle thing from day one ..

i used air cond. ducking for the pipe and installed the entry up uder the side pockets .. had the motors for 15 years without any service done .. some times i would spray crc onox into the air intake to lube all the carbs.. the motors would start to stall then i would ease up.......motors yamaha 85 hp s stroke pre mix....


I HAD NO PROBLEMS ...... and a lot of use ...













what happen ???????????????

[snappa]

:D forget about the "snappa" and look to the motor

u will see the pipe coming off the front of motor ...

hope this helps .??:)

[saurian]

Narby , I don't seem to have the same problem , but I havn't got a noosa.
Would be interested to hear what you do, to solve problem???.
It would piss me off to no end if mine where carbying up as such ....
But mine sure seem to cop spray at times...
Ta

[fishingrod]

These ones are homemade on a 1988'ish 7m Sharkcat.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/sharkrearsmallfile.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/sharksnorkoil.jpg

[Stuie]

Looks like its time to break out the tools Pup.

[Catlover]

Does anyone now of someone that makes snorkles for engines.I am having trouble with my engines on my noosa cat sucking in to much salt air and after 2 trips i have to remove carbies and clean out.If any one has had similar problems would appreciate info on any fixes.
Had a cat with twin 70hp Yamaha's oil injected, dud engines. I think if you need to clean out your carby's, it's water in the fuel - not air born - as water can't get in the bowls if that's where you are cleaning them out. The fault I had was jelly like stuff forming in the bowls after a couple of trips. Found fitting new filters, cleaning out tanks helped a lot. I also started putting just a little oil in the fuel tanks so when the boat would sit around the fuel in the carby's would dry out, but it left some oil in the bowls which stopped the carby's drying out which is a problem on injected outboards as the oil is injected rather then being mixed in the fuel.

[fishingrod]

Are you sure its sea mist getting sucked in?

(Not spray kicked up from LBT pick ups or sounder transducers)

Rod

[snelly1971]

Alot of the older cats here had them fitted...I am unsure who fitted them but they look very similar to the above home made ones....Apparantly the earlier Yammies had a problem with sucking in fine spray off the motors causing bearing damage...which eventually caused complete engine failure....

Cheers Mick

[cormorant]

Does anyone now of someone that makes snorkles for engines.I am having trouble with my engines on my noosa cat sucking in to much salt air and after 2 trips i have to remove carbies and clean out.If any one has had similar problems would appreciate info on any fixes.


Can you post a photo of rear of cat with motors trimmed level. Side shot as well? What motors?
If they are set up right you really shouldn't need snorkles the way modern cowls are set up.
Where exactly was water found and what conditions were you running in?

Misting used to be a problem on old cats as motors had to be mounted so low to the water before extra longs were avaliable. Now with pods or set back mounts amd better hull design it shouldn't be a big issue. If it is a moored boat they sufferred worse from misting as chines would clog with barnacles and the crisp waterflow off hull was lost.

When coming off the throttles fast you can still nearly drown a motor in a noosa cat with the stern wave if the nose pitches down.

Tell us where the water was for a start and someone here will be able to help as snorkles are a ugly adaption and only a solution in the worst case and wreck cowls.

On offshore power boats they are used as the racers have removed all cowl baffells and airbox to get max cold airflow rather than air from around motor and use carbon cowls to keep weight down. They don't care about noise or anything else but power.

[BM]

Its a common problem to most multihulls and was referred to in a service bulletin by OMC some 15+ yrs ago. I can't recall the analogy they gave but they were working out rough volumes of water being ingested by cat engines and the figure was staggering. This is typically ok (sort of) while the engine is running hard and generating heat as the water typically gets evaporated off before it gets a chance to do any harm. However upon returning to dock any remaining moisture will sit and this causes bearing failure. Its not a brand specific thing at all its simply to do with cats being quite wet boats at the rear end.

The only remedy is fitting snorkels as pictured above to allow air induction that is not laden with moisture (or saltwater spray).

Its not uncommon when doing an inspection on a multihull boat to find very rattly engines. Not in one or 2 yrs from new but say 10yrs down the track. The same engine 10 yrs along on a monohull is going to still be quiet in the bearings.

Cheers

[julian1]

i have an early 660 Noosacat and have had no trouble with water getting sucked from the air, on a calm day there is barely any water on top of the cowling, the old engines were 130 saltwater series Yammies, now it has 150 Suzuki 4 strokes and still no need for snorkels, maybe its a combination of old style cowlings and 20" shafts that caused the problems in the old days, it would be the last thing i would want to do to my engine cowls, maybe its more likely water in the fuel tanks, are checking your water seperators after every trip ?

[Big G]

I would tend to agree with "catlover" and like to make sure you are cleaning out the carburettors for the right reason. Is the water in the fuel bowl of the carburettor or is it salt corrosion in the throat of the carbys. if the water is in the fuel bowls it is doutful fitting snorkles will solve the problem. But if the carburettors get corrosion in the throats you definatly have a problem you must address. Air borne salt water injested into the engine will damage the bore and bearings.

My Jaycat6000 does not have that problem as the Manafacturer has designed the tunnel to eleminate spray from effecting the engines. At low speed there is Zero spray as it is stopped by the extended side walls of the tunnel. at high speed the spray leaves the tunnel from behind the engines and keeps the engine cowls dry.

In the mean time it would be a good idea to take the extra time to inhibit both your engines with a rust preventive every time you let them sit between fishing trips..... I dont mean externally only I would remove the cowls and while running the engines in fresh water at around 1500 rpm spray inox down the throats of the carburettors so as to inhibit the crank pins and needlerollers, cylinder walls, rings etc etc. Commonsense has to be used when doing this so listen to your engine and don't spray for too long..... short bursts with a good 10 second pause in between,letting the engine oil do its job as you don't want to flood the engine with inhibitor as the inhibitor will not satisfy the lubrication requirements of the engine.

If you don't want to use inox I think the dealers will have an approved inhibitor for your engines.

cheers
Big G

[Narby_Pup]

Cheers to all for info.A bit more info about my problem.The engines are 2004 model yamahas,i have quality water seperator/ filters fitted and allways check before going to sea, and only have small amounts sometimes.The fuel bowles are not holding moisture when i dismantel carbies.When i remove top cover from the carbi, the vent cavity for fuel bowl has gritty shit in this area.This grit works its way into idle jets only and causes idlel problems.Originally thought is was water contamination but i am 100% sure its not.My engines do sit low on this boat as they have been mounted onto pods which are not standard to this cat as far i no.I am thinking of running vent hoses from carbies to air box as this is where johnson have theres and makes sense to me for various reasons. The grit in the vent is crystalised salt. The engines on my boat are long shaft but still sit low. There is adjustment higher but not much and not sure if this will cause other problems like cavitation. Attatched some pics of boat.

[snappa]

i believe most engines suck a certain amount of water spray ....

(.)(.) ...snappa

[Noelm]

those engines appear to be long shaft, not extra long, XL will take them another 5" out of the water, so maybe that has some bearing on it, I had a pair of 90 Yamahas on an old 18' Sharkcat and never had any problem at all, do your motors have any sort of filter (like say foam) in the air box, or is it just a hollow container?

[finding_time]

Th9is is'nt the best shot to show them but it's all i had on the putter, these are the big foot yami fours with 25inch leg i believe . You can see how high the the motors sit, the pods had to be raised to take these motors , and they hardly get wet at all during calm days offshore, rough days everything gets wet::)

[cormorant]

Those Yammie 60's pack a lot of motor in a small cowl and a small airbox.

Look there is probably a lot of misting at the end of the tunnel as it has not been extended when the pods have been stuck on. You could experiment with a piece of polypropelene between the motors and the tunnel to force the misty air further back away from your motors. Not easy to secure but on a older boat we had some canvas made up on a stainless frame were surprised how well it worked.

As said the motors don't look like extra longs which are better as they raise the powerhead. I would have guessed and said they look a little deep in the water as the cav plates should be able to be a good 1-2 inches above the bottom of the hulls??? Get someone locally who knows their cats to have a look or phone Nooosa and send then som ephotos as they will be good for advice.

Those deposits could be from / if the motors get swamped when you come off the throttles and not from misting. Cowls in smaller HP motors are not watertight and can allow a surge of salt water into the cowl that doesn't drain very well. Some evaporates as air flows through and you end up with salt deposits. Cowl rubber seals that are in poor condition or have been jammed may also let in a lot of very moist air.

Also is it happening the same on both motors and are they counter-rotators?? If one is worse than the other ( I'll guess your port motor) as it gets more disturbed water and will also sit deeper in the water due to torque of motors.

try and solve all the other possible issues before tearing apart cowls.

[STUIE63]

Are you sure its salt in the carbies. My father had a jet boat in the 70's and had all sorts of troublewith a build up of very fine silvery powder in the carbies it ended up being the fuel tank was made of aluminium and was corroding. When he replaced the tank no more problems.Just a thought.
Stuie

[wadeo]

Narby, I have an 89 90 model sharkcat/noosa cat redesigned with pods,Carby 2 strke yammies 25 inch legs . Drive it through anything with outboards on rough days copping a drenching and never have a problem ever !. Have you tried putting a bit of metho in ya fuel tank to evaporate any water that may have snuck in through the tank breathers?

[bushbeachboy]

Simple solution Narby,
Follow your instincts and good taste, ditch the cat and buy another Poly.:P
Cheers mate

[cormorant]

Narby, I have an 89 90 model sharkcat/noosa cat redesigned with pods,Carby 2 strke yammies 25 inch legs . Drive it through anything with outboards on rough days copping a drenching and never have a problem ever !. Have you tried putting a bit of metho in ya fuel tank to evaporate any water that may have snuck in through the tank breathers?


Narby pup and waedo . Gouy PM each other and have a chat and exchange photos or go have a look at each others boats if nearby as you may see an obvious set up problem. Different set up on cats make huge difference so if you can both get on the water you'll learn a lot about what to and not to do with your rig set up. Motor heights are critical and even prop types make a big difference to performance. If you can get the boats side by side you may be able to see any hull mod from the factory that were done in the later example.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

[Kerry]

Well all I can say is that if some are not aware of a Cat with a water injection problems (and there's been some classics over the years) then either they know very little about Cats or don't want to know!

[snelly1971]

Well i hate to say it but i have to agree with Kerry....

I have heard so many stories about cat motors here having bearing failures due to water...weather it be from a fine misty spray being sucked in..or as commercial operators do...hard reversing....

Cheers Mick

[snappa]

....finally ;D

[BM]

Well all I can say is that if some are not aware of a Cat with a water injection problems (and there's been some classics over the years) then either they know very little about Cats or don't want to know!

Agree completely!! In fact, thats what I said on page 1 somewhere....

For an outboard manufacturer to mention the problem in a service bulletin shows that the problem is all over the world.

Re someone mentioning water surge going into the cowl when powering down this would be obvious with the cowl off as there would be salt on most things in the lower pan.

Cheers

[wadeo]

Narby pup and waedo . Gouy PM each other and have a chat and exchange photos or go have a look at each others boats if nearby as you may see an obvious set up problem. Different set up on cats make huge difference so if you can both get on the water you'll learn a lot about what to and not to do with your rig set up. Motor heights are critical and even prop types make a big difference to performance. If you can get the boats side by side you may be able to see any hull mod from the factory that were done in the later example.

Good luck and let us know how you go.
Gday Cormorant. I think your sugestion is good. My cat which was purchased as a wreck to be done up as a project boat was a great way of getting an under standing on the whole cat concept. I studdied lots of other cats while bring my cat back to life. Including a late 80 model 7m shark cat which had these ugly looking breather pipes on his outboards claiming he had drowned both motors twice in 2 yrs. I then looked further to why this was happening on this boat. It had the motor well transom and in built pods ( on inside of transom) . I also noticed that while on the water his sponsons filled up with water and so did his in built pods. Watchin this rig travel through the water from another boat i noticed it badly dragged its ass everywhere and sat very low in the water at rest.Taking this into consideration we decided to rebuild my transom so there were no motor wells and put big air tight pods onto transom for 1stly bolting outboards to in a higher position and 2ndly to create more bouyancy at rear of boat. Having all new bulk heads ,stringers and floor i have no problem with water under floor and gained extra deck room by getting rid of the old bulky transom. Now its completed we have no problems at all with water and our outboards at rest or under travel. Cats are known for their wet ride down the back of the boat and mine is no different but the outbards don't cop anymore than a mist of water. I dont have breather pipes and just had 110hr service from boat being new again and carbies and everything for that matter under cowels were in good clean condition with bugger all salt residue anywhere. Narby i know you have a newer noosa cat than mine so this might not apply to yours but it certainly changed mine.