battle of the 50's

[mjbpjk]

Guys I just put the order in for my new boat, a 449 stacer seahorse. Was going to opt for the 469 seahorse but am limited with storage space and don’t want to leave it out side.

I need to select a motor for it but am unsure what will make me the most content.

The boat will be set-up like a tarted up fully optioned quintrex classic 460, and usually only have me 110kg onboard. But will be well loaded with tackle and supplies + 60 or so litres ’s of fuel.

The boat will be used weekly and when the fish aren’t bitting ill be hammering ( hope fully ) around the water ways.

Like most I guess I love to go flat stick a lot – well usually ¾ throttle.
I personally very rarely troll.
I only have the choice of 3 outboards ( im getting a great deal from a mercury and Honda dealer ) what should I get to suit my needs
2 stroke from what I know have more punch but are very heavy on fuel,
and the 4strokes are great on fuel but lack punch.
Im not really after hole shot performance but do the 4st have the legs to hold there own against the 2st’s.
Merc 4st against Honda 4st ??
50hp 2st merc - nice and light but thirsty.
50hp 4st merc – 112kg ( boat only rated to 114kg ) but 4 cyl and fuel injected
50hp 4st Honda – same weight as 2st merc but not so torquey ???

Please help me decide
Tell me why and why not

Cheers Pete

[lippa]

i'm no expert mate, but a friend has the 50hp honda on a 449 nomad, and its awesome! has a great holeshot, quiet as, very effeient.
plus hondas aftersale backup is second to none.

cheers

lippa

[Marlin_Mike]

None of the above for me......if i had to i would buy a suzuki

Mike

[Seahorse]

mate of mine has a 50 hp 2st merc on his 445 stesco and it flies. i had a 4.2m stacer with a 30hp and fuel was great. i know got stacer 489 with 75hp and very happy with that.
i would go 50hp merc 2 stroke. prob bit cheaper. prob take fair while to save the money on fuel to cost difference between 2 and 4str.
thats my 2 cents worth.
go the mercs
greg

[mjbpjk]

i would go 50hp merc 2 stroke. prob bit cheaper. prob take fair while to save the money on fuel to cost difference between 2 and 4str.
thats my 2 cents worth.
go the mercs
greg

thanks for that Greg

Im getting the 4st's pretty much for the same price as the 2st's
If price wasnt an issue what would you get.

Its all about who; not what you know

Cheers Pete

[longtail]

if i had a choice i would go the honda , have heard many good stories about them

Mike - he didn't ask about suzuki's , honda's are a better motor just more expensive.

Jason.

[Marlin_Mike]

I realise that Jason, was just my opinion on what i'd buy. Nothing against Hondas, just a suzuki man

Mike

[Wahoo]

Go the 4s merc

Daz

[bastard]

Id go the 2 stroke,but ive never owned a four stroke so cant really comment.

[Spaniard_King]

Whats the warranty on the Merc?? the honda should have 5 years...

The Honda gets my vote.. but I am biased :D

Garry

[saurian]

I reckon a suzuki , yamaha or the honda .
Personally prefer injected 4 strokes like the first 2 .
But honda has got a lot of runs on the board with there little 50,S.
Ta

[mjbpjk]

Whats the warranty on the Merc?? the honda should have 5 years...

The Honda gets my vote.. but I am biased :D

Garry


Your right the honda gets 5 years and the merc gets 3.

would the 50hp honda get up and go on a 4.5m?

Cheers Pete

[ffejsmada]

would the 50hp honda get up and go on a 4.5m?

Cheers Pete


Bloody oath it would.

I've got a 4.1 with a Honda 30, there's no way I'm complaining!

[lippa]

the one i mentioned earleir does around 60hp/h by the gps. obviously prop selection and boat setup makes a difference. he is still running the standard honda ally prop.
resale on the rig will be better with a 4stroke, regardless of manufactuor.

cheers

lippa

[saurian]

Lippa hit the nail on the head " resale will be better with a fourstroke".
And how many of us dream for a bigger boat ???
Ta

[Achjimmy]

thanks for that Greg

Im getting the 4st's pretty much for the same price as the 2st's
If price wasnt an issue what would you get.

Its all about who; not what you know

Cheers Pete

If that is so go the Honda 4st. Resale will be higher/quicker, fourstrokes are becoming very sort after.

my 2c

Jim

[bushbeachboy]

My last boat was a Stacer 440 Seahorse. It was powered by a 40 2 stroke Mercury (Tohatsu) lite. It was a really good match for the boat, and not at all heavy on fuel. If the 50 2 stroke is the 1 litre American motor, it will be heavy on fuel. A mate had one fitted to a Hornet and he was always complaining about it. A few boats earlier I had a 40 2 stroke American and it was also heavy on fuel.

The downside to the Merchatsu was that it was manual start and trim, with side gearshift, but didn't lack power even with 3 in the boat. The hull helped with this, it has big reversed chines at the rear (EVO hull) and planed very easily.

If you've got the option of a 50, go for it. The hull can easily handle the power and the boat is very directionally stable. (It goes exactly where you point it instantly) A four stroke would be the go if your price is right. If you have a gear shift on the tiller handle along with trim and tilt button, you will be happier. The hull really needs the advantages of power trim so you can trim it in for holeshot and right out for WOT.

As for choice, another issue to consider is the cost of servicing. What is the service cost of each motor? What is the service interval after the first 100 hours?

Both motors will give you good service and economical running. From memory the Merc is fuel injected. Not sure about the Honda. A five year warranty is hard to go past too. It might get down to which one you think looks the best on the boat.;D

[mjbpjk]

If you've got the option of a 50, go for it. The hull can easily handle the power and the boat is very directionally stable. (It goes exactly where you point it instantly) A four stroke would be the go if your price is right. If you have a gear shift on the tiller handle along with trim and tilt button, you will be happier. The hull really needs the advantages of power trim so you can trim it in for holeshot and right out for WOT.

As for choice, another issue to consider is the cost of servicing. What is the service cost of each motor? What is the service interval after the first 100 hours?

Both motors will give you good service and economical running. From memory the Merc is fuel injected. Not sure about the Honda. A five year warranty is hard to go past too. It might get down to which one you think looks the best on the boat.;D

Its good to here the 40 went well on the 440. the 50 should go good on the 449 then. im getting a console fitted and the motor will have power tirm/tilt which hopefull should be good.

Im told 2st service costs are $120 and the 4st the same + oil and filter.
no idea what that would cost though

How do you find the evo hull?
if i put the console on the side do you think the boat will lean?
and how stable is the boat at rest.


Thanks
cheers Pete

[zaraspook]

I have a 40 2st merc and it is an awesome motor easy start and pleanty of grunt on my 4.3 tinne

[ALOGT]

I would definitely go the 4st. Having recently brought our first 4st (75 Honda) after having previously owned 2st Suzuki,Evinrude,Mercury,Chrysler the fuel efficiency and quiteness of the 4st is noticeable. The Honda would be my pick with the 19kg weight advantage and the 5 year warranty.

[BM]

Its probably worthwhile mentioning that Honda still have some major internal corrosion issues. Thats probably been the impetus for the 5yr warranty.

Cylinder heads and particularly engine blocks have had issues now for about 5yrs and they haven't rectified it yet as far as I am aware.

I personally would pass on the Honda.

[saurian]

Bm , not with the 50's.
Ta

[Bin455]

Ive got a 50 Honda on a 455 Seajay Haven Sport with side console etc. I love it, fuel economy is excellent and its as quiet as. Mine is only about 5 months old and has had its first service with no problems at all.

As far as corrison goes I researched as much as I could before buying mine and have not heard anything about them getting corrision, every one I have talked to said they are a tried and proven motor.
I have averaged about 100km each trip and the motor does not miss a beat.

The other boat I looked at was the Stacer 449 nomad elite with a 50 hp Merc 2st. The stacer is a great boat but due to the dealership were I am I went elsewere and got the package I have now with the honda and a 5 yr warranty for only $500 more.:D



Bin455

[BigE]

Hi pete i did this exercise recently and ended up with a 60 yammie 4st. I have had it 3 weeks and put 25 hrs on it. I dont know about the 2 st but the new generation of 50/60 four stokes are unreal, here is some REAL WORLD data for you remember i have no conection with any company & I dont care what YOU buy, But i wish some one could have helped me in the decideing process.

the Boat is an old Mid 70s F/g halfcab 4.8m (and it is HEAVY) with the standard prop it will pull hard to the rev limiter with two adults (100kgs plus each .... i like choclate OK) & all our fishing gear a 200 liter esky with 45kg of ice 75 lts of fuel and camping gear for 2 days. top speed 55kph (canopy up) the worst fuel economy i have gotten is 75kms out of one tote tank (25lts) and that was at 35kms in a 1.2 sea with a load. best fuel economy is an unbelieveable 96.7kms on a tote that was at 4200rpm @ 33kph in creek conditions I didnt believe it at first so I did it again with the same result simply unbelieveable. it's quite real quite (i think the honda may be better there unreal) it has a ton of mid range punch at 3500 if you floor it you need to hold something & it is like that all the way to the limiter. the best thing was the dealer took me for a prop test when the engine was fitted INSIST ON THIS as this is where you will get the most bang for your buck performance wise on this size engine no matter what brand. we tried three props and i settled on the standard prop becase it suited my style of use. (33kph @ 4200 RPM = good fuel & engine life) the follow up by yamaha & the dealer after i got the motor has been great i have been contacted twice (in 3weeks) to make sure I'm happy............ Big smiles for BigE

Cheers best of luck with your purchase

BigE

[Noelm]

this will go on forever, not too sure why these sorts of things get started anymore, it is like asking someone if they prefer Chocolate or Banana Paddle Pops, then going out and buying Banana 'cause that's what most people liked!! another 4 stroke V 2 stroke, cat V mono, merc V yamaha, Holden V Ford there IS NO ANSWER! it will go on forever! (HHMM like I just did)

[sea raider]

Why only the three choices?

[Mtx]

I have a 4.5 with a 50 4st on it. Cannot complain. Excellent performance and fuel economy fantastic and nice and quiet as well.

[saurian]

Sea Raider , pity all the choices aren't being digressed.
Think old mate has sales and service in his area for the 3 chosen...
Noelm , you talking to yourself again ?????
Ta

[Noelm]

yep, maybe, I think I hear voices now!

[mirage]

Go the Honda 4 stk for all the reasons mentioned above, especially if your getting a 4stk for similar price as a 2stk

[sea raider]

Saurian, fair enough, that didnt even occur to me.

Buy the motor from the dealer with the best reputation then.

[bushbeachboy]

Hey Pete,
The EVO hull was good. It was very stable. At the stern I'd rate it as stable as a punt. I used the thwarts as casting decks, and on the aft thwart I could walk from one edge of the boat to the other and it would hardly move. That was one up too, and I weigh nearly 100kg. You had to be a bit more careful at the front, because of the vee, but that was expected.

If you happen to stay out overnight, the rear seat is wide enough to sleep on. That is, I could lay across the boat on the thwart and sleep, but I'm only 178cm. A tall bloke wouldn't fit.

All of this stuff you can do in smooth water ie a river. In rough water you have to be sensible as usual. The EVO hull rode well, but it was not smoother than any other tinny I've been in. The big reversed chines help it to plane a bit easier, and maybe to hold the plane to a lower speed.

Overall I found it to be a nice, big comfortable tinny.

Cheers
Craig

[mjbpjk]

thanks heaps to all who replyed,
some very helpfull replys indeed,
any further comments or experiences on these motors will still be fantastic be it good or bad.

I know this must seem like a holden vs ford debate, and it may well go on for ever but i have a small choice to choose from and am mainly after performance.
Unlike holdens and fords i dont have the opportunaty to line them up and race them.

I may be getting the complete rig for less than 14k but thats still nearly 14k that i dont want to waste by rushing in and making the wrong decision :)

thanks again
cheers Pete

[saurian]

MJPPJK , used to own a 4.3 dinghy with a 50 honda , which had gas assist tilt/tiller.
I used to go on 100 km round trips and use 18 lt of fuel, so regular that I stopped looking at the 25 l tub to see how I was going.
The boat used to get 53 km flat out and at about 35 km/hr it was the most economical.
The motor boat combo needed power trim and tilt , so speed and economy would be better.
We fitted a yamaha prop to get best economy ( can't remember pitch etc..)
But it helped with loaded economy for 2 km less speed.
I wouldn't hesitate recommending the honda over the 2 other motors you are contemplating.
I personally prefer efi in 4 strokes( only because I've had one) but if I had to 3
carbs of honda would be fine.
I would definately choose the honda over any merc in a similar size bracket 2 or 4 or for that matter efi..
They havn't changed that little motor from it's inception apart from increase it from 45 hp.
Don't let anyone tell you a 2 stroke is better than 4 stroke.
Read all the posts here from new 4 stroke owners , one word "rapped".
2 totally different motors.
This will get it going , "4 strokes are meant to be bolted onto boats and 2 strokes are meant to be portable" ie; 25 hp or below.....
How often do you see a 4 stroke chainsaw ????
Never... light, smoky , powerful....
Ever filled one up , yep continuously , they just chew the juice to get the power.
What else do they do , noise, screaming little buggers.
Ever flushed a 2 stroke side by side to a 4 stroke ????
It just reminds you of why the 4 strokes have been such a success.
I presently own 2X 90 2 bangers and yep I hate all the 2 stroke characteristics, especially the inability to start first/second time on a regular basis.
I mean it's more than just smell, noise ,efficency, etc....
It's about user comfort, enjoyment, fun boating , family days out etc .....
At least go the merc fourstoke , or better still a company that at least makes the motor that it retails. Honda ....
Ta

[Lovey80]

Any Chance of posting the prices of all three. I rang around today looking at what a repower to a e-tec would cost in a 50Hp. Price from 2 dealers was 8200 and 8500 pluss fitting.


Cheers Chris

[mjbpjk]

Any Chance of posting the prices of all three. I rang around today looking at what a repower to a e-tec would cost in a 50Hp. Price from 2 dealers was 8200 and 8500 pluss fitting.


Cheers Chris

Hi,

Unfortunatly i cannot tell you the exact price im getting these motors for as a friend at a dealer is helping me out a fair bit.8-)

What i can tell you is that price sounds about right for an e-tec based on what ive been quoted,
i have a mate that just bought an 06 merc new 60hp 2st for $7750 fitted which i thought was a great price, and i got quoted $8000 for the 2st merc 50 + $1200 for fitting. .i dont think that was such a crash hot price.

Most people will say to keep shopping around and they are right, but also keep in mind the feel you get from the dealer and his team. Ill oftern pay a little extra just so i feel comfortable with who i buy it from. peace of mind


Sorry I cannot help out anymore then that

cheers Pete

[whatscracken]

Go straight past the honda/merc dealer and get a yamaha

[Spaniard_King]

Go straight past the honda/merc dealer and get a yamaha

Whatscraken, please explain how your post is helpfull to the originator of the thread....::)

Go back and read the posts:P

Garry

[Sailing Breeze]

50 two stroke has a large capacity cc for its hp.... a great performer. If you wish to have the quietness of a fourstroke go fo a suzuki....fantastic waranty also.
Despite what the expest say....if you drive a four stoke hard it will use similar amount of fuel to a two stroke. Four strokes are however considerably more efficient and quieter at low speeds.

[bigred77]

just adding to the debate im biased two .i own the boat lippa was talking about.no complaints whatsoever .running standard prop gets about 63kph on gps.extremly quiet motor.hole shot is fine an very efficiant carry 50l of fuel morten island and back bit of running round 25-30l.so go the honda i did very happy.

[roydsy]

Go the Merc 4 stroke 50...

I will probably never touch another honda after having our 90hp 4 stroke overheat in less then 40 hrs of work...... bad bad experience.

[Uggboat]

Yamaha 60 perhaps?

[KGW3]

Always liked Black anchors.. The nice Silver 4st Honda looks nice and is very quiet.. But Honda's are a bit pricey and the higher price does not offer enough to buy one over an ELPTO 2 stroke Merc for me.

[Angry]

Take it from me, you want as much cubic capacity as you can get, that means a 4 cylinder, either a yammie or Merc 4 cylinder.

I had a 435 hornet witha 50hp Merc 4 stroke, (996cc 4 cyl), sold it toi upgrade to a 460 Stacer toureement has a 50hp Suzuki/Johnson 4 stroke, (3 cylinder & 814cc just like the 50hp Honda).

Where my old Hornet would jump onto the plane & two 2 of the kids on two tubes.
The Johnson doesn't have enought grunt & struggles onto the plane & then becuase it has to be propped with less pitch to get onto plane goes slower. & it wont tow 2 tubes.

Go with the Merc it 996cc & 4 clyinder, the manufacturesr need to be publishing the touqurefigures for motor as well as HP.

Angry

[black runner]

The good thing is that you are fitting the maximum rated HP for the boat. So any of the motors mentioned should perform really well.

I have a 60 Yamaha 4st (max HP for the boat) on a Stacer 460 sunmaster. It uses about the same amount of fuel on a run as my old merc 25 on a 13 footer did. Cruises 20 knots at 4000 rpm with two big blokes and our gear. Better for the environment.

Pros:

Honda: Lighter weight (10-15 kg's and an issue if you are going to put on an aux), Warranty, tried and proven

Mercury: EFI, creater cubic capacity and more torque, 20 amp alternator.

Cons:

Honda: 3 carb vs efi, less cubic capacity, 10 amp vs 20 amp alternator (can be an issue if running accessories)

Mercury: 10-15 KG heavier

While I love the Honda there appears to be a few more pros for the Merc. However the 5 yr warranty must be a factor

Cheers:D