Ongoing Trailcraft Profish problems!

[mjc85]

I bought a 4.85m Trailcraft Profish back in July 2006, I will not mention from where for the time being.

2 Months after buying the boat we had first signs of problems. I was driving the boat from my waterfront house and about 2km from my house it started showing "Water in Fuel" on the smartcraft gauges. I'm sure this happened after a decent few days of rain as well.

So I was straight onto the phone to the dealer and they said bring it in. So I took it down and dropped it off and a few days later they tell me they can't find anything wrong and they assume someone put water in my fuel tank due to the rusty colour of the water they removed when they drained the tank, where the rust came from? They tell me a rust jerry can, or from the servo's tanks or similar as the fuel tank is alloy (or poly, i forgot now?). So no bill from them and $60 worth of my fuel down the drain. They also give me a water filtering funnel and tell me to use it when filling up from now on.

So I take the boat back home, and go straight to the servo to fill up with the "water separating funnel" they gave me. I follow the instructions and when done there is no sign of any water left in the funnel. So I take the boat to the boat ramp chuck it in and drive it back to my house and park it on the floating dock. All seems good.

So a couple of months pass and I am out fishing in the river and the dreaded "Water in fuel" comes back on the gauges. So I get the boat out again and drag it back down to them (its a 1hr 15min trip to the dealer from my house, and about $80 fuel return each time in my old landcruiser). So a few days after dropping it off I, they call me back and tell me same thing as before. "Someone must be putting water in your tank or you are getting bad fuel", I tell them I used the funnel but they don't really seem to care, apparently its my fault. So this time they charge me $600 for the removal of the carpet, the floor and the fuel tank and draining the tank and whatever for one of those clear bottom fuel filters.

So I take the boat back home and just this Saturday gone I was heading out from my house and about 2km away and the "Fuel in water" pops up again again after the 3 days of heavy rain last week, this time the motor conks out and won't restart, so I call a friend and he tows me back home. Now the boat is tied up in the water 5 days later, the motor won't start even though I have drained the water from the external and internal filters. I am yet to call the dealer, as lack of time. But what ground do I have left to stand on? Each time I go there they belittle me and tell me its my fault.

Total cost because of this so far is

$60 worth of fuel from first visit
$600 for bill and about $50 of fuel and maybe $150 for filter in 2nd visit
$80 return for my car in fuel x 2 = $160

Total $1020 approx.

What course of action should I be taking from here? as quite frankly this is not f%#king good enough on their behalf.

Mitch

[bastard]

The water has to be getting in somewere,were abouts is your breather,if the boat is stored outside the breather could be sucking in moisture,the best bet in my opinion is to fit a fuel filter with the water trap clear bottom so every time you use it you can chech the filter for water and drain it.

[mjc85]

The water has to be getting in somewere,were abouts is your breather,if the boat is stored outside the breather could be sucking in moisture,the best bet in my opinion is to fit a fuel filter with the water trap clear bottom so every time you use it you can chech the filter for water and drain it.


The breather outlet is on the fuel cap, and after the 2nd visit I got one of those filters with the clear bottom and have been draining water out of it nearly everytime before I use the boat, the water always appears rusty and has bits of floating stuff in it?

[saurian]

Mjc85 , sounds like a triple dose from the same source.
If now you have got a water seperating fuel filter on , filter should seperate water from fuel in glass bowl as described, to make motor konk out thats a fair bit of water thats getting in.
Where is water coming from ???
I mean , tank is sucking it in via breather or fuel itself is faulty...
When it rains is there anyway water can get into fuel tank ???
How and where do you fill it up ???
Rusty stuff in the fuel normally means steel from jerrycan , I
I'd be getting a seperate 25 lt tub and run motor off it , make sure fuel filter is used.
And see if you can isolate it. ( intake of h2o)

[bastard]

If your sure some body isnt doing this might pay to presure test your tank.

[tunaticer]

Is your tank plastic, alloy or fibreglass??
Is the fuel you are using E10 (10% ethanol)??

I just read an exhausting article about E10 fuels and outboard motors. E10 disolves the fibreglass resin and absorbs water resulting in rusty looking water but its resin not rust. once the resin has been broken down enough the water is absorbed in thru the remainder of the fibreglass if there is a flooded area outside of the tank (could be from rainfall filling the tank cavity).

I do not think it is anything you are doing wrong because who would sabotage the thing they want to enjoy?

Jack.

P.S. if you want the article PM me and I will dig it out of the history for you.

[saurian]

Tuna , sounds scary . i'm pretty sure trailcrafts have got a 120 l plastic tank.
Ta

[disorderly]

Probably no help to you but my Triton dual cab had the same symptoms as you.After much expense and 6 months later it was discovered that there was a rust hole in the top of the tank where water was laying and rust ,water and dirt was entering.
Shouldn't happen in so new a boat but if I were you I would be taking bastards advise and pressure testing the tank.

Scott

[ziggy.]

Hi guys, I have had the same problem with water in my fuel, my boat is a sharkcat pre loved 1990 model which I did a refit on this year and when I first began useing it I was catching water in one of the racor filters, quite alot of water. The culpret turned out to be the deck filler, the boat is kept under cover so I knew the water was finding it's way into the tank when I wash the boat, the sealant had shrunk from around the base of the deck filler and the hose beneath had become so hard that it did no longer seat properly onto the tail of the filler and this allowed the water to flow down and into the tank.

I know this may not be the case with your boat Mitch but you never know, it may be worth checking to see if the hose is tight on the deck filler that is if you have the same setup. I was emptying my water trap up to three times per trip.
Hope this helps. Ziggy.

[Lucky_Phill]

Had a similar problems.

It turned out to be the fuel cap. I had one of those that had the breather inside the cap, thing is the cap did not seal properly.

Ended putting a large diameter breather hose with loop in, CAV Filter and Stainless Steel screw type fuel cap. All is good.

Water coming out of our CAV filter always seemed ' rusty " but really just a different colour and the thing is the filter in the CAV ( you can check the new ones ) is subject to corrosion.

IMO, take it back to the dealer again, and get them to replace fuel cap and have a seperate breather hose that is visable.

Good luck,

Phill

[timddo]

Mitch.

first your fuel tank is aluminium. so it doesn't rust. Secondly the breather is at the rear of the boat, no on the fuel cap. the breaher is to the side of the left hand side next to the steps. It is easy to empty your tank. Would cost you $20 +15 for sikaflex. What i beleive it is is the tube which connects the aluminiu tub of the breather to the bank. It's a clear sub and must have probably harden.
Or you need to throughly clean your tank.

[cormorant]

If you go back to the dealer get them to put some fuel in and tape the cap closed so there is no funny business. Then they know for sure it is a problem of a boat you purchased "not fit for use" and get them to bloody well fix it and refund all their charges.

To test 5 PSI pressure in the tank via the motor line, seal the vent off close the main cap and use soapy water to confirm no air is getting out "making bubbles" around cap or connectors or vents and then you have a starting point. If air can get out water can get in. Always be careful with fuel vapours.

Water can wreck the injectors in DI motors so be interested to know if the warning light is just a idiot warning light or an intelligent system that shut the motor down when it detected water in fuel at it's internal filter before it damaged the motor.

If it is there problem get them to guarantee you there was no damage in writing so if you have a warranty claim later on the motor you'll be ok.

Interesting to hear how this one ends- hope it works out

[cormorant]

Had a similar problems.

It turned out to be the fuel cap. I had one of those that had the breather inside the cap, thing is the cap did not seal properly.

Ended putting a large diameter breather hose with loop in, CAV Filter and Stainless Steel screw type fuel cap. All is good.

Water coming out of our CAV filter always seemed ' rusty " but really just a different colour and the thing is the filter in the CAV ( you can check the new ones ) is subject to corrosion.

IMO, take it back to the dealer again, and get them to replace fuel cap and have a seperate breather hose that is visable.

Good luck,

Phill

The CAV filters have interts that are petrol suitable but if you use some others the paper element seems to stain the fuel and later collapse when left standing we found out. Check you are useing right filter elements for petrol and clean bottom bowl as they often discolour by getting a film on them. Most of the shops know bugger all and will sell you what they have and since most filters actually come packaged for deisel that is the element many have and continue to reorder. Can't put my hand on the correct numbers for filters elements but had to order them as they wern't a shelf item. We spray the CAV filter elements metal outside so they will actually last a while in the saltwater environment otherwise they lstart looking rusty in about 6 weeks and the metal seems to be getting thinner on the recent ones

Would love a copy of the article about ethanol disolving fibreglass tanks as I hadn't heard of that but know toululene was disolving seals and degrading rubber pipes in cars / boats when unscrupulious servos were putting it in the fuel mix.

Ethanol will absorb water from air or bottom of a tank and also in a boat situation due to agitation it can drop the water out of solution. Light elements in the fuel can evaporate in warmer climates and leave you with a tank with water at the bottom and deadish fuel so if the motor will run it will be wiell down on power. Fuel stability is a big issue and I try and make sure all fuel is used within 8 weeks these days as some of it is crap.

I would never use ethanol fuel from a servo in a boat motor and that is coming from someone who has used it in trailbikes and gokarts as you want the very best performance from the most dense fuel in a boat motor not ethanol which has less calories in it.

[mjc85]

Mjc85 , sounds like a triple dose from the same source.
If now you have got a water seperating fuel filter on , filter should seperate water from fuel in glass bowl as described, to make motor konk out thats a fair bit of water thats getting in.
Where is water coming from ???
I mean , tank is sucking it in via breather or fuel itself is faulty...
When it rains is there anyway water can get into fuel tank ???
How and where do you fill it up ???
Rusty stuff in the fuel normally means steel from jerrycan , I
I'd be getting a seperate 25 lt tub and run motor off it , make sure fuel filter is used.
And see if you can isolate it. ( intake of h2o)

Water must be getting in somewhere, whether on the deck where the fuel hose joins the little knob thing that runs down into the tank, or via the breather hose which is in the cap. From the fuel filler there is two hoses, a bigger black one which I imagine is the fuel one and a thinner garden hose thickness clear one which I believe is the breather. When it rains maybe the deck gets enough water on it that the water is sneaking up under the bottom of the hose and over the knob into the tank?

Fuel can't be faulty as I have used this filter funnel they gave me, showed no sign of water and 3 lots of bad fuel seems almost impossible to me. I fill up 20L Red plastic jerry cans and then pour them through the water separating funnel into the fuel filler of the boat. I have no idea where the rusty stuff is coming from as I watch the fuel go into the funnel and it is normal fuel colour with no impurities or floating shit in it.

I think we are gonna get onto the rep and get someone independent to pressure test the tank and then take it to small claims.

Will a pressure test of the tank show signs of leakage where water could enter?

And who would do a pressure test in Noosa area?

Thanks for all the replies fellas, very helpful.

Mitch

[saurian]

Mitch , the others here keep mentioning breather cap combinations that are faulty, I've only ever had seperate breathers down on the transom area not in the cap. My present breathers are 6 ft above the deck under the hardtop roof so maybe previous owner had dramas. Check the hoses and clamps for splits/leaks I would'nt have thought water would ingress over the ali riser on deck unless hose is not clamped on enough.
Others have also mentioned the filters breaking down , I've always used racor/ryco filters without any problems.
The only thing apart from water entering the system is bad fuel to begin with.
If the breathers in the cap, I'd be getting that sorted and just eliminate the sources of possible water 1 by 1 .
I'm glad it's not me , sounds frustrating to say the least.
Best luck ..
Ta

[FNQCairns]

Yep I agree with above the filler cap and it's associated breather is faulty/poorly installed in some way.
or you have yet to clear the original lot of bad fuel you poured into the tank, I know you said it had been cleaned since and I am taking that into account.

I understand and am happy to be corrected I thought those water separating funnels need a slow fill to work, pumping at servo speeds is too fast.

cheers fnq

[deathstar 3]

Who is the dealer?

While we don't want to sledge them straight up, i feel that these people/dealers must be named and of course given the appropriate right of reply.

The dealer must be pretty thick if he thinks that you will accept the reasoning that someone has sabotaged your boat! (Maybe your neighbor has the shits with you for loud music or something and has it in for you. You didn't get it on with his wife did you?)

Also I have never heard of any type of clear hose being suitable for fuels. It may only be a breather but it is still a fuel atmosphere.

I would be checking all connections to the fuel tank for brittleness of the hosing, corrosion/failure of the clamps and premature failure of any sealants.

Please let us all know of the dealer and offer them them the right of reply. If they are honest and reputable they should be quite happy to publish there reasoning for offering such a stupid and pathetic reason/excuse.

John

PS. F*** these dealers, they must be held accountable for the products which they sell and are quite happy to take your money for! Provide the service or F*** *ff!

[doublexl]

hi mjc 85 i can help you out here mate,i am friends with a trailcraft dealer & i,m sure its not where you went.the problem is your filler cap & changing the cap & fitting a seperate breather will fix it,also the fuel tank has to be removed & drained.trailcraft wont admit it but the new filler caps they have been using some of them leek & yours is one of them,if you need any further help call mr t,s tinnies in brissy they will help you out mate,they have had a couple of these rescently...
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

[Poseidon]

Can remember a similar problem a little while ago, someone back and forth to the dealer to resolve water in fuel tank.
After many $$ spent it turned out to be that the deck carpet finished tight around the fuel inlet which stopped the o ring on the cap sealing with the filler. Water was getting in and under the cap to the tank.
Solution was to cut the carpet away from the filler and all was fine thereafter.

Not sure if this helps.

Regards Cameron.

[searay215ec]

i work for Trailcraft in Perth where they are built, they have used a few different fuel fillers and breather setups. I feel they use cheap fittings (nav lights, compass, rod holders etc),

Pm if you want i with what sort of fuel filler and breather used and maybe i can give you some help

[jorsam]

hi mjc 85 i have a trailcraft 570 sportscab with the same problem i just wanted to see if you have had any luck with your problem i have just changed to a new filler cap system and i hope that solves my the problem because the dealer i got the boat of could not find any problems if you could help me out that would be great thanks.

[tin can marlin]

Mate go to crew marine they are the new merc dealer on the northside of brisbane and top blokes ask for graham in the service area i bet they would have a look at it for nothing as they are looking for work at the momet. Just real down to earth blokes. They don't sell trailcrafts but that won't matter. They might chare you after they have found the issue then you can just never go back to the other dealer. And i have no ties with crew i just no they are putting in a big effort around my area and not getting much reward as it is not going as good as they would have liked. But with attiude towards people that they have they will be a long term sucsess story. Good luck and i hope you sort it out so you can enjoy your boat. Regards mark

[Fish Guts]

i thought lawsy was bad

[tin can marlin]

I don't think it is bad to tryand help a battler out when they are down. I think lawsy would do the same thing.

[Fish Guts]

yeh but he'd ring a bell while he was saying it

[tin can marlin]

Thats true maybe ausfish could look into it. All a bit of fun.