Tin Can Bay fishing

[Silent]

Hi ausfishers,

Going there next weekend to explore bit around Tin Can bay...
I will launch my boat to chase some estuary and of course muddies...

How is Teebah creek fishing later I'm keen to go there,
Any tip or warn for rock or shallow etc...

Thanks Silent

[Nowhere Bob]

Havn't been up Teebah for a while.
There are some really good undercut mangrove edges & deep holes with timber up Teebah. I havn't explored it as much as I'd like but you know how it is - so much water so few hours.

Was @ Kauri Ck a bit over than 3 weeks ago. Big schools of herring at the start of the run out @ junction of Kauri & 1 st creek towards south [I forget it's name].
We cast-netted up a doz or so and tried rockbars & holes up Kauri - not a sausage, but did see a Barra & a Threadfin cruise right past baits. Flicked SP's as well for 1 decent Flatty. A good thing we were not depending on catching dinner!

Still reports of muddies coming in, but has slowed pretty much since Easter. I'm not a big crabber [angry little B'stards] but the skipper is & he did all right recently.

Kauri, Teebah & Carlo Cks are all shallow as Paris Hilton. Many boats have been trapped in Carlo & Teebah by falling tides. The channel switches side to side all the time, so best to do your exploring on a rising tide.

[juju]

No No.....tin can bay flashbacks..........went up there in a houseboat several years ago...was a great trip !!!...25-30 knt se...rain....spent one hole day just sitting in the houseboat all shut up...caught no fish....had a break in the weather went up to towards teh resort, gut the anchor snagged, the house boat guy got the coastguard to come and "save" us...had to cut the rope....wind came up again...gave up were heading in...wind and current + lack of power on the houseboat...ended up on a sand bank on a dropping tied.....started pouring down again..........had to pay $60 extra for the lost anchor.......otherewise a great trip:-[

[Silent]

Just got in my mind about boat ramp facility at Norman point...

Is there any water tap that allows wash boat & flush saltwater out of O/board?
How is Tin Can Bay's water restriction?

Thanks again

[robersl]

Silent are you going this weekend or the 18-20 th if the last weekend i will be at boonooroo or marroom or whateverits called for he weekend

shane

[Kleyny]

my dad has been up in that area for two weeks. (raindow waters camp ground)
he caught a good feed everyday, the bloke next to him got two big GTs straight in front of the camp site near the two white channel markers.

neil

[Wear the fox hat]

Best of luck trying to catch a fish or a crab.

The fish & crab pro's rape all of Tin Can Bay constantly & then hammer the hell out of it just before any public holidays so they can have some time off & thus leave nothing for anyone. They will even follow some of the local recreational fishers who sometimes get onto a good patch of whiting & then move in & wipe out the school. Hmmm, wonder why there's also no seagrass & dugongs left in the area.

Also, if you go to get your crab pots & can't find them, look up in the tops of the mangroves. If they have been thrown up there (sometimes slashed), there is a pro in the area & has taken offence to you setting pots in the area.

Note: To the uninitiated, the trawlers only work the outside waters. It's the guys in the little putt putt boats with a couple of boat loads of nets in tow that wreck the fish stocks. Not sure if beam trawlers still work further up Sandy Straits.

WTFH

[Nowhere Bob]

Wear the fox hat, you've made a couple of big claims that I'd like to see backed up with others opinions /observations. Not looking to start an argument, but want to put forward some of the other side of the story.

1: "The fish & crab pro's rape all of Tin Can Bay constantly "
There are quite a few commercial operators in the Great Sandy Straights who net & crab. Probably @ higher densities than the other waterways I know. That said, I think that 'Rape" & "constantly' are a bit hard. One guy I know has been netting the same banks on the same tides for thirty+ years. If it was not sustainable he wouldn't still be taking boxes of whiting every shot. It costs money to run a net operation, they only go fishing if there is a pay in it. The crabbers do work the area pretty hard, but from my observations / information they pull gear out for the peak times because they just loose to much gear to the share-farmers.

2. "then hammer the hell out of it just before any public holidays so they can have some time off & thus leave nothing for anyone."
And they eat babies too! C'mon these guys arn't idiots, they are in it for the long term. They would no more smash the system so they can have a week off then I would tell someone they are beeing ripped off by my boss- it's just not going to happen.

3. "They will even follow some of the local recreational fishers who sometimes get onto a good patch of whiting & then move in & wipe out the school."
I doubt it. I really doubt it. A net operation needs water of a specific depth, current of a specific run and 50 other factors, to sugest that the pros will run out a net just cause there may be a box of whiting there, is gross over simplification. No recreational fisher will ever know as much about the movements of fish like the pro's do, it's like sugesting that a hobby farmer knows more about about beef than my father in law who's been in beef for 65 years.

4. "Hmmm, wonder why there's also no seagrass & dugongs left in the area."
I wont argue that some of the heavier netting operations [Eg Shark & Barra] have drowned dugong in the past, but thats why there are now DPA [Dugong Protection Areas] in place and strict gear restrictions. Talk to the Parkies they'll tell you that all the dead dugong + Turtles they encounter are from boat strike & Heavy guage poachers nets not pro operations.
As for Eel grass/ seagrass, no netter I know would set his gear in a grass bank it'd be like working in wet cement. The weight would make the net completely unworkable.
As an un-tested hypothesis I think run off from forestry & agriculture has more to do with loss of seagrass beds than netters. Besides every time I go up the straights I see Turtle & Dugong, I don't know what it was like 20 or 50 years ago, but there is sure as hell a healthier population in the straights than in Pumicestone passage or Moreton Bay [the only other waterways I can claim to be familiar with.]

5. "there is a pro in the area & has taken offence to you setting pots in the area."
I think the guy you are talking about is a shamatuer - no licence but sells product on the black market. The Pros know what it's llike having gear ripped off & slashed and spend too much time repairing thirown to do it to others. Besides If you were losing 10 pots a week you'd probably get a bit sh!tty as well.

I don't want to sugest that all the pros working the SS are knights in wet wether gear, however to slam all operators a rapists and filth is a bit extreme don't you think?
I think the only way we are going to be able to share the resource is to give each other some slack, not leap to the worst conclusion and act like adults. I bought a netter a beer at the Rainbow Sports Club one night and picked his brains. I tell you I'll never see it the same way again.

[slyman]

Hope you have a good trip silent! I'm not sure of their water restrictions, but, for safety and maintenance reasons you are still allowed to flush outboards.

simon

[Silent]

Silent are you going this weekend or the 18-20 th if the last weekend i will be at boonooroo or marroom or whateverits called for he weekend

shane
I'll be there on 18-20th

Cheers Silent

[Silent]

Best of luck trying to catch a fish or a crab.

The fish & crab pro's rape all of Tin Can Bay constantly & then hammer the hell out of it just before any public holidays so they can have some time off & thus leave nothing for anyone. They will even follow some of the local recreational fishers who sometimes get onto a good patch of whiting & then move in & wipe out the school. Hmmm, wonder why there's also no seagrass & dugongs left in the area.

Also, if you go to get your crab pots & can't find them, look up in the tops of the mangroves. If they have been thrown up there (sometimes slashed), there is a pro in the area & has taken offence to you setting pots in the area.

Note: To the uninitiated, the trawlers only work the outside waters. It's the guys in the little putt putt boats with a couple of boat loads of nets in tow that wreck the fish stocks. Not sure if beam trawlers still work further up Sandy Straits.

WTFH
I saw few reports over crab raiders of course shamatuer (I agree with Bob) in this area, so I won't let my eye out of sight on my crab pots...
Anyway thanks for warns

[Silent]

Nowhere Bob,

You're welcome to share the side story against WEAR THE FOX HEAD...
So we can view the opinions, but I won't involve any jugdements about pro.

What I wanted is "Good break from big smoke" I don't care if I don't catch anything, but a nice sencery is bonus!
I always try my best to catch fish or crabs. that's what fisherman is about...:)

[catfishkid]

The only thing i can add is watch out for GREEN ZONES like the one upstream of log dump in Kauri creek,i know there is more further south but i cant tell you exact locations. good luck i hope you do well. :) cheers

[Wear the fox hat]

Nowhere Bob,
I did not regard the pro's as filth in my post & I haven't jumped to any conclusions. How about you read the post properly before YOU jump to conclusions.

Just because you had a beer with a pro doesn't make you a book of knowledge.

I speak from first hand experience (many years) & from experiences of many friends that live in & fish the area. All of my comments are not heresay.

The only thing I will agree with you on is the fact that YES, run off from the land (fertilizers etc.) does affect seagrass. My comments about dugong was aimed at the fact that with depleted seagrass, dugong numbers are minimal, but constant netting also damages the seagrass.

As for the professional crabbers down the bottom end of the straits, they are not locals & don't give a stuff about quantities they take.

If you are in the Brisbane area, get involved with the fors & againsts in the upcoming Moreton Bay Marine Park, & THAT will open your eyes to both sides of the story. Ring The Fishing Party, Sunfish or whatever groups are in the fight down that way & get informed.

An area like The Great Sandy Straits should be closed to ALL professional activities & recreational take sizes should be increased & bag limits decreased. Plus all fines on recreational fisho's should be increased 10 fold.

Then the fishery would be sustainable & maybe a limited number of pro's could be reintroduced when stocks increase again.

WTFH

[slyman]

Yeah the green zones, I cant remember the names of the creeks, but on the southern side of tin can inlet there are a few creeks before the powerlines and another just after the powerlines, these are all green zones.

simon

[Lovey80]

Can you still get Jacks up there this time of year??

[Silent]

Can you still get Jacks up there this time of year??
Obviously I'm keen to chase Jacks or surprise like Barra or Threadfin would be nice...
Had the plans to use live bait and trolling lures along creek for species as above...

Will post the result after my trip

[roydsy]

I have heard reports that they are catching good quantities of tuna in the bay just inside the bar at tin can. Anyway, 2nd hand knowledge, make of it as you will.

cheers
Roydsy

[Big_unit]

The TCB / Rainbow pro's are known for some very suspect activities, of course proving it is another issue. You only need to have a yarn to some of the different people around the joint to work out things are a little bit on the " deliverance " side of life out that way.

I know for a fact, first hand, saw it with my own eyes while driving around the bush near Poverty Point of some shonky operators. Also have witnessed some slightly dodgy stuff at the back door of the co-op too.

I think that from Bundaberg to Hervey Bay should be shut down to all forms of fishing / crabbing, simply because there are some extremely rare and very unique systems in that area which really need to be protected for the long term. Seasonal closures just arent enough for sustainable rehabilitation of fish / crab stocks and the ecosystems that are part of. These systems need a break and it needs to happen before its too late. Shut down that stretch for two years, then move along and shut down another stretch of coastline eg Hervey Bay to Noosa. Work the rotation so that every six years its shut down for two years.

I dunno I just have bad dreams that things will end in disaster.

Catch & release is the ONLY sustainable fishing practice.

The commercial fishery is the only primary industry that has no idea of precisely what stocks are available. For example every beef cattle farmer knows that he has X amount of cattle and manages his property accordingly with the correct practices to ensure sustainability & viability, YET NOT ONE pro fishermen provides any true management practice or input to fish stocks. They simply seem to kill, kill & kill - ifs its undersize and therefore unsaleable then its gets tossed over and further depletes fish stocks. Nets are very unforgiving and indiscriminate.

I think more pro licenses should be revoked or bought back.

Just my thoughts of course.

Cheers
James

[Big_unit]

I have heard reports that they are catching good quantities of tuna in the bay just inside the bar at tin can. Anyway, 2nd hand knowledge, make of it as you will.

cheers
Roydsy

That info is spot on.

[minno]

Roydsy! Ga day! Its true longtails are on the bite in that spot, some what. But homework on what the the feed is, is the key.


P/S They are big!---------------------------------------12.5kg,s. hint! 40gm,s.
best of luck.



minno

[robersl]

Hi Silent
We are staying at marroom caravan paek a powered site green ford and a white 4.35 apache Ally craft 30 HP JONNO IF YOUR IN THE AREA COME SAY HI

SHANE

[Silent]

Hi Silent
We are staying at marroom caravan paek a powered site green ford and a white 4.35 apache Ally craft 30 HP JONNO IF YOUR IN THE AREA COME SAY HI

SHANE
I'll stay at Kingfisher caravan park.
If you see a bright yellow boat on water and it would be me. my boat is haines hunter seawasp.

[Silent]

BIG_UNIT,

Like I say to NOWHERE BOB & WEAR THE FOX HEAD

You're welcome to share the side story about good/bad things happening in Tin Can Bay area...

That's why we have the forum for...

[Nowhere Bob]

Thanks Silent; I'm stoked to find a platform where big people can discuss the things I'm passionate about. Also I think exchange of opinions is critical to reaching understanding and compromise.

Peace WTFH. I'm sorry I replied with hotter words than I should have. I know about net & trawl from family up north. I bought the guy a beer to pick his brain about local banks & holes when I first turned up to Rainbow / Inskip.

I doubt that there will be a solution found that will satisfy everybody. So compromise positions will need to be found.

Commercial operations are just that - commercial operations facing the reality of Cost of production V. price. The local Net & Mud Crab operators are all small businesses who have gone into a trade in good faith. [WTFH I think 90%+ are local.] If public opinion says the Sandy Straights should be closed to commercial fishing - How do you compensate these guys? Strong parallels can be drawn with timber industry. There are only so many whale watching /charter fishing jobs. I don’t ever like seeing a small mob of people being done over.

Big Unit – You have put your finger right on the 100 million dollar issue – stock levels. Every year we [as a society] harvest seafood stocks and assume next year’s population will be the same – based on observations from previous seasons. We have no real understanding of all the factors that combine to affect populations. However I think the continued harvest-particularly of short lived species-proves that to date the effort has been largely sustainable. If the effort put into catching fish suddenly blew out then that would be a bad sign. But pro catches are more or less the same, with no major increase in effort. Now in the SS there is increasing pressure both rec & pro – this will have to be managed if the stocks are to survive.

Big Unit I strongly disagree about banning all take from the area. I think Representative Areas declared as green zones are a good start. To ban all take would-I think have an unacceptable impact. If you search back through my posts you’ll see that I fish for pleasure not tucker, but I wouldn’t want to take away anyone’s right to go and catch a feed.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I think this is a big issue and as my grandad used to say “big problems never have easy fixes.”

Silent I hope you found a quiet creek and many good fish on your trip – or did you make the bad weather call?

[Big_unit]

Big Unit – You have put your finger right on the 100 million dollar issue – stock levels. Every year we [as a society] harvest seafood stocks and assume next year’s population will be the same – based on observations from previous seasons. We have no real understanding of all the factors that combine to affect populations. However I think the continued harvest-particularly of short lived species-proves that to date the effort has been largely sustainable. If the effort put into catching fish suddenly blew out then that would be a bad sign. But pro catches are more or less the same, with no major increase in effort. Now in the SS there is increasing pressure both rec & pro – this will have to be managed if the stocks are to survive.

Big Unit I strongly disagree about banning all take from the area. I think Representative Areas declared as green zones are a good start. To ban all take would-I think have an unacceptable impact. If you search back through my posts you’ll see that I fish for pleasure not tucker, but I wouldn’t want to take away anyone’s right to go and catch a feed.

We have the Stocked Impoundment Scheme for the fresh so why not have a system in place for the salt ? Basically all fisheries should be user pays funded.

I feel a strong need to see GREEN ZONES used in a different manner than the present way. If you divided the GSS for example into six divisions and closed each division for 2 years on a 6 year rotation. I come from a farming background and we manage paddocks this way to ensure that each paddock gets a break and we can increase productivity in the long run.

For the two year period it means each division would get regeneration and re-invigorated.

Dont stop anyone catching a feed BUT make certain that they have payed for the priveledge and also give the fish stocks a chance to flourish.

Bag and size limits need to be altered to protect fish stocks.

Cheers
James

[Nowhere Bob]

I have no in principle concern with fishing licences, reports from NSW indicate a high level of (grumbling) take up.
The crop rotation model could work, especially with TCB / SS. Limited No of access points (boat ramps) mean you could publicise it effectively, and details schmetails could be worked out (EG transiting with product on board?).
The pros already pay a resource fee (licencing) I think this could be manipulated to make some forms of fishing more / less viable. EG If your primary issue is by-catch, then up trawl fees & down tunnel netters.

Interesting thread, I like.

[Wear the fox hat]

Nowhere Bob,
I agree with the peace bit.

Unfortunately with the GSS, nothing is going to change after the EPA have now been through & made their changes. Recreational fishers had restrictions put on them & the pro's had none put on them. The Fishing Party were virtually non-existant in this debate & Sunfish put up their arguments, but all that happened was that on the introduced mapping, virtually from River Heads south, all was coloured as yellow which is a no take zone for professional, BUT then there is red lines across this yellow area which allows professional take. Try & work out the logic on that. There is also some green zones & go slow zones for migrating birds etc. & part of some creeks & inlets.
All this was derived by some kids fresh out of university who did a study trip for a couple of days/weeks & were then thrown to the wolves at the public forums. They even reckon dugong were found wayyyy up in the farther reaches of Kauri Creek (impossible) & also found some endangered types of jelly fish & some kind of water rat at the lower end of the GSS past Searys Creek. They must be rare, as no-one had ever seen or heard of them. Basically they had no knowledge of the real world & proved this by the amount of unanswered questions they couldn't provide.
Anyways, the recommendations were implemented & the rest is now history. It was a piss poor effort by any of the local members at the time in the way that they showed virtually no effort & even reluctance in stopping the whole thing happening. Basically, from what I can see, it was driven by the Greens & the fishing industry & the government in due course acted accordingly, as they do have a responsibility to encourage industry throughout the state, BUT I reckon the GSS will not sustain the continued pressure from professional activities, as the recreational guy is flat out catching a bloody whiting in the area. In my opinion, I reckon the take by recreational fishers is about 20% & the rest is professional.
The above reasons are why I say if you are in the Moreton Bay area, you must get massive public support to fight the changes you are in for. There was even (muted) talk of setting up fish farms in the GSS, but to date nothing has transpired, so watch out for that one also, as the feed may introduce disease that could wipe out the native stocks anyway.

NOW HAVE I GOT YOUR ATTENTION AS TO WHY PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF UP HERE.

WTFH

[MyEscape]

Silent,

My wife and I were there last week, unfortunately well timed with a windy week (should have been there the previous week). So windy we did one trip to Inskip area before giving it away)
The ramp at Norman Point (the one next to the Coast Guard) has taps for washing down so just bring a hose and tap fittings to wash your boat and flush the motor.

But reports are that there is tuna and mackeral in the bay and a few reef fish around Bluff reef. Go and see the bloke at the tackle shop on the main road in (Kidd Straight I think), near the IGA store. He seems to know the area.

Good luck anyway

Steve

[elprez]

Robersl, with a few things going my way I might get up there Saturday arvo. Dont forget the aeroguard, youll need it in the van park. Theres a lot of water out there but sometimes the best fishing is in the deep holes at creek mouth (last red marker) and deeper holes up L gutter. See the shop for details on sticks marking the chanel. Hope the weathers fine and you enjoy the area.

[Nowhere Bob]

Science is always a progressive thing with knowledge added every year, but you need a starting point. So I think a golf clap is due to those who decided that the GSS was worth looking at in the first place. I sugest that much of the initial force for study, recognition & protection came from the local community.

I'm not going to bag the science used, or the young & keen people tasked with compiling data and drawing conclusions. Any fault in the quality of the study lies at the door of the funding decision makers.

Lets accept that we probably disagree with the findings. What we might be able to agree on is that there is now a structure in place on which to build. [A sceptic may call this 'Another layer of red tape']

EPA has quite different priorities to DPI Fisheries.
So perhaps over time EPA will increase the level of protection in sensitive areas, ie the yellow zones become green - further limiting the areas open to harvest. This may eventually exclude all commercial operations and even concievably all rec take as well.

This is not the thunderclap total protection that some may call for, but it may be a more fare, more science based, and more managable way to progress this.

[elprez]

Everyone calling for "bans" stop the rot now and just stop fishing. Lead from the front, take your own advice and get your boats out of the water. Heres a better closure solution, using my local boat ramp as the border for the first 6 months of the year all fishing to the north will be banned for the next six all fishing to the south will be banned, what a great idea !! If anyone is worried about a delicate environments stay the hell away from it, part of the problem then solved.
Get up there quick silent or you might not get the chance to experience this great place. P.S. if you hear the faint sound of banjos and muffled squeel of a pig on the breeze you'll know your in heaven.

[Nowhere Bob]

;D Noice one El Prez.
Best response ever. We'll start off by fencing off all access to GSS, put in mines and guard towers. No one with anything sharp or pointy or vaguely string-ish allowed, oh and canoe sail only of course.

[elprez]

No joke, if you want rec fishing resticted in the straits do the right thing and get out, or is it a case of I wont if he wont?

[fishel]

There are a couple of taps where you can wash your boat and flush the motor on the right just past the car parks in front of the cafe as you come up off the ramp at Norman Point. Water restrictions aren't too severe there and allow for hand held hoses, it seems. Take your own hose, of course. Cafe has the best chips!

[Lovey80]

Hi guys, I've done a bit of fishing over the last few years up Kauri creek way. Whilst I've never bagged out on any species up that way it is still in my opinion one of the most beautiful places i've ever been. While as far as inshore netting/trawling is concerned I wish that we could avoid it as much as possible. But at the same time I would feel for the local pro's if they were banned alltogether with no other work to go to. Does the bag limmits of rec fishers realy need to be adjusted???? Over the last 2 years I've been fishing with some absolute champion blokes who have been fishing that area for nearly the last 20 years from november to december every year. Whilst I have heard some great yarns from these bloke never have I heard or seen of them ever bagging out or taking anything that they shouldnt and these blokes would catch more than any rec fisher in that period IMHO this includes throwing back 3-4 Barra in a session because they're out of season. Everything that is taken is eaten that night and if they saw anyone breaking the rules they'd be the first to act against it.

These Blokes every year for the last 20 years have spent roughly 6 weeks strait every day on the water in the area and have their own opinions on the pro's in the area which is to say that it's not all good but in saying that they have sincere exeptions to that rule. They are aware of the problems with pots and too watch them religously especialy after an instance where there was a blow up with a pro crabber and their camp was raided by fisheries on a spot inspection that afternoon. "Wonder what initiated that........ 1st in 15 years" of course they found nothing and havent been back since.

At the end of the day if the average rec fisho isnt bagging out on prized fish whats the point in changing bag limmits. Are the pro's "bagging out" so to speak??? Is that the reason the very experienced rec fishers aren't bagging out???? I like the idea of spelling area's especially for parts of years and more so on the pro's than anything but so long as the same creeks aren't copping the same fishing bans every year at the same time.

Obviously a very passionate topic of mine in the area because i want to be taking my kids up there when they're old enough to appreciate it.

Cheers Chris

[elprez]

Well said Chris and I couldnt agree more on Kauri. With closures I know that pro's ie trawlers swamp areas on opening ( yes I do have mates who are pro fishermen)so do they really work, I'm not convinced.

[Lovey80]

Hi guys just thought I'd add one more point. Just read a thread about fishing licences in QLD possibly comming in. Now when I first heard about them In NSW it hought it was the rudest thing I'd ever heard but when i found out they had used that revenue to buy out pro fishers in Botany bay i did a 180. If QLD brought in a fishing licence with the first priority to buy out onshore fishers in Queensland then i would be the first to sign up for a 3 year licence. The obvious thing would be to start at the border and work the way up north..... most populated areas first.

Well it happened in NSW and worked why not give it a try up in QLD too. There's one thing i would be against and thats the off shore prawners and crabbers being bought out. Those poor bastards have been regulated to near on extinction as it is theres hundreds of them trying to get out before they go bankrupt and there's only one thing more Aussie than mudcrabs and fresh fish and thats a good old Aussie king prawn. ILL BE FXXXXD IF IM FORCED TO EAT THAT FARCE OF A IMPORT SEAFOOD THEY CALL THE VANEMEI PRAWN.

At the end of the day not all of them need to bought out but if there was a lot fewer pro's that all had quotas they couldnt go over then every rec fisher would be happy.

Cheers Chris

[Big_unit]

No joke, if you want rec fishing resticted in the straits do the right thing and get out, or is it a case of I wont if he wont?

Damn straight. I now ( for over 9 months ) practice catch & release ONLY in GSS.

Do you ?

Proud to say that I am committed to solving the problem.

[Lovey80]

No i don't not always. If i get a good jack i'll keep it. If just legal he gets to go another year. Big unit do you really think that REC fishers are really doing any damage to the area??? Just your thoughts?

Cheers Chris

[Wear the fox hat]

[quote=Lovey80;621484]There's one thing i would be against and thats the off shore prawners and crabbers being bought out. Those poor bastards have been regulated to near on extinction as it is theres hundreds of them trying to get out before they go bankrupt and there's only one thing more Aussie than mudcrabs and fresh fish and thats a good old Aussie king prawn.



I agree totally. At least these guys are pro-active in self regulating their own industry, not like the pro's in the GSS who just take & take until one day, there will be no more.

I can't believe the goverment allows the importation of farmed prawns as the dye that they use to make them look orange is carcegenic. After the local industry kicked up a stink about this, all that happened was that things started being labelled in the retail outlets as to their place of origin. And, you don't want to know what these imported prawns are being fed on, as you would be sick on the spot if someone told you when you were eating one.

WTFH

[Nowhere Bob]

I will take a lizard for tea, everything else gets to swim again.

I'm amazed that the Prawn Trawlers are seen as Oz Battlers, while the inshore netters are all 'men in black hats."
My personal experience / opinion is exactly the opposite. I once heard otter trawling compared to clear felling an old growth forest to catch possums. I recognise that the Qld trawlers are far from the worst in the world, but what gets shovelled off the sorting tray DOA would make anyone weep.

[Big_unit]

No i don't not always. If i get a good jack i'll keep it. If just legal he gets to go another year. Big unit do you really think that REC fishers are really doing any damage to the area??? Just your thoughts?

Cheers Chris

1) They are a PART of the problem, however the MAJOR players are the netters. It takes a lot of rec fishers to remove the sheer numbers of fish & crustaceans like pro's do.

2) Minimise netting and the fishery will SLOWLY recover.

3) Regulate all forms ( Pro & Rec ) of fishing in rotational system as I stated before and we will enjoy the benefits of this AWESOME fishery for many years to come, in fact for generations to come. Its bloody terrible when you see a netter " shoot away " and just clean out whole schools of fish regardless of size or breeding cycle, just as upsetting is seeing people cleaning undersize fish at a boat ramp.

3a ) Impose very heavy fines for breaches, multiple breaches result in confiscation of fishing equipment, boats, trailers & vehicles. 1st time warning then 2nd time a $1500 fine, 3rd time $3000 fine & if they breach a 4th time start taking property. Make certain that QBFP officers are policing these areas heavily during closures.

4) Best case scenario in my opinion is totally BAN netting in all forms from Bundaberg to Noosa, however I will settle for the rotational system because I know that many families are fed from this fishery, not just Pro fishing families either. Further to that this fishery aint completely stuffed YET.

Thanks for asking Chris.

Cheers
James

[Lovey80]

Bob its no where near as bad as what you are making out. Outside prawners have no where near the amount of a confined space to dip into as opposed to basicaly the equivalent of straining your pasta ready for dinner. Without the current regulations I'd be on yourside they wouldnt be battling to near extinction but they are getting cained. If you take into consideration the amount of product thats offshore and being caught and the amount of product inside thats being caught the ratio would be vastly on the side of the inside netter.

It's for all to see in the Sydney area at the moment. Botany and Sydney harbour have had bumper catches recently with only one change.........THERE ARE NO LOCAL PRO'S RAPING THE RIVER! It doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out why rec fishing inshore is on the decline these days.

Bob not trying to pick a fight here mate but we are talking about 2 totally different things.


Cheers Chris

[Lovey80]

Big Unit, good points well presented. Do you think if the option of buying out the netters at a fair price to them was a viable one you would support it? If that did happen do you think that any complete Bans would be neccessary? Obviously some areas that are breeding grounds do not apply to that. As per my point to Bob with the Pro's gone around Sydney rec fishers saw a noticable and immeadiate turn around. Anyway thats how I'd like to see it done.

Good to see an intelligent and relevant issue not being side tracked into rubbish.


Cheers Chris

[Big_unit]

Everyone calling for "bans" stop the rot now and just stop fishing. Lead from the front, take your own advice and get your boats out of the water. Heres a better closure solution, using my local boat ramp as the border for the first 6 months of the year all fishing to the north will be banned for the next six all fishing to the south will be banned, what a great idea !! If anyone is worried about a delicate environments stay the hell away from it, part of the problem then solved.


Its people with your attitude that make this issue far worse than it has to be, it can be sorted out effectively and with good outcomes for all parties.

Oh thats right your a local you have more rights than anyone else because you know these pro's would never do anything that affected the long term sustainability of the GSS fishery. I think if you didnt wear your heart on your sleeve you might realise that there is a problem.

If the " delicate environment " ( to put it in your own words ) is worth worrying about then dont you want to make certain it remains one the greatest fisheries on the east coast of Australia ?

The GSS pro's are most certainly the major problem and the general public is finally realising this, they will be stopped. I dont agree with " share farmers " or the type of people that damage pro's gear but by the christ I would turn blind eye to it if I saw it. Its natures way of balancing things out you know !!!

Cheers
James

[WHALEOIL]

Thanks for the interesting reading fellas. Lovey80, it is not just Botany Bay that has benefited from pro buy outs. Pros have been bought out all up and down the coast.
The revenue from the fishing license has been used in other ways also. http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/recreational/where-fishing-fees-go (http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/recreational/where-fishing-fees-go)

A friend of mine was a pro netter in Jervis Bay. He welcomed the buy out. He said when he first started netting; it took an hour to run the nets and half a day to sort them.
When he finished up, there was sweet FA to sort.
Pros need to make a living and if I was one, I would like the option to be bought out or not.
I used to cart Semi loads of sand out of Tin Can but unfortunately, I never fished it. It was defiantly a beautiful spot.

[elprez]

Read that qoute of mine again and still cant see any mention of pros in it James. You might want to climb down off your shetland and read it again. I'm making reference here to bans being mentioned for rec fishers.

[sneaky]

hey Nowhere Bob is that the aeroplane under your name that you hope to get on one day and go some where remote to catch a fish. Your a nob head, you dont want an arguement but you went for the throat, i have a family history dates back well over 100years in both the fishing and Oyster industry, one of these industries is sustainable the other is not. As an oyster farmer you maintain your enviroment, you put back what you take out of our waters, in my grandfathers day the fisherman started out with a wooden boat & a set of oars, can you imagine how big Tin Can Bay would be if you only had a timber boat and a set of oars, it would be a long way just to the green marker off Inskip Point, ive been to Frazer Island before and after the proffessional Fisho's have been all over it. They make a difference. I grew up on a river were fish stocks used to be plentifull, we watched this place change. It wasnt pollution that changed it, you could and can still, read a news paper on the bottom at 30ft at the top of the tide.

Progession of industry and tecnology has given the Fisherman wat they needed to keep up with society not with the depleting fish stocks. Bigger Boats, Faster Boats, Bigger Nets, Better Quality Nets, They evan make nets that glow in the dark for fish attraction, when will it end, when there all gone, cause im pretty sure the average breeding cycle can not keep up with this sought of battering.

Dont get me wrong the Fisho is entitled to make a living just as much as you and i but sometimes i feel they're just shitting in their own nest.

[Nowhere Bob]

Ok, I'm a nob - I've been called worse.
Just what was it about my posts that upset you Sneaky?
I'm guessing that you are sugesting that aquaculture (Oysters) is sustainable, while all other forms are not?
I really dont know much about the oyster trade except that the racks provide structure for losing lures to, and it's a hell of a lot of work in @rse deep water. I was told that the racks were treated with creosote, can you confirm?
One of the things I was trying to get across was that a netter I know has been taking boxes of whiting off the same bank in the GSS for 30 years. I would suspect that if this was unsustainable then surely his catch would have dropped off inside this timeframe.
Sneaky speaks about the days of row boats & natural fibre nets, Um, yep again no argument from me; Pro pressure certainly has increased over the last 30-40 years. As has rec pressure. This increase in 'fishing effort' needs to be managed.

So using short words & sentances I was rude / upseetting how?

[Big_unit]

Read that qoute of mine again and still cant see any mention of pros in it James. You might want to climb down off your shetland and read it again. I'm making reference here to bans being mentioned for rec fishers.

More like you absolutely did say it, just not in that particular quote -


Well said Chris and I couldnt agree more on Kauri. With closures I know that pro's ie trawlers swamp areas on opening ( yes I do have mates who are pro fishermen)so do they really work, I'm not convinced.

and your next point is ?

Cheers
James

[Big_unit]

One of the things I was trying to get across was that a netter I know has been taking boxes of whiting off the same bank in the GSS for 30 years. I would suspect that if this was unsustainable then surely his catch would have dropped off inside this timeframe.

For mine that doesnt make it right or acceptable. Just means to me that for 30 years he has hammered fish stocks and is responsible for a definite decline in Whiting stocks and any other species which rely on Whiting.

Ive heard plenty of pro's at GSS meetings in recent months complain that they are working harder than ever to maintain viable & profitable catches.

Are they telling porkies ? if so why ?

Cheers
James

[Nowhere Bob]

Ive heard plenty of pro's at GSS meetings in recent months complain that they are working harder than ever to maintain viable & profitable catches.
Are they telling porkies ? if so why ?
Cheers
James[/quote]

My opinions only-
1 Pro fishers give cow cockies a run for their money as world champ whingers.
2 Same increasing costs that we all face - increasing fuel & labour costs.
3 Drop in catches.
4 I dont know anyone - butcher baker or air frame fitter who thinks they are not underpaid & underworked. I know I am.
5. Its Danny Buderus' fault.
;D

[elprez]

Yes in this reply I mention pro's that I know, but they have operations nowhere near the straits and closures I mention for example may be the scollop fishery off Gladstone. You blokes should concentrate on whats written not what you want to reading into it. Hear are a couple of sentences from my submission to gov. on straits becoming a marine park.

'Analysing the chart and graphs of appendix 3 (where I could find no reference for the representation of waved lines used in the bar charts) I noted that area V 34 which covers a large % of The Great Sandy Straits only contributes approximately 3.0% toward the economic value of fisheries, being approx. 3.5% of the commercial tonnage and employing only 5.5% of the total number of boats that work within the proposed GSMP-NS. These figures show area V34 to be the most insignificant contributing area to the economy of the fisheries within the proposed park which should also indicate it to be the most appropriate to apply the provision for fishing activities within a Conservation Park Zone, area V33 following closely behind being the second least significant contributor to the fishery.'
'Areas V33 and V34 could be an area where “maximum effect for minimum expense” in a buy back/phase out operation of commercial fishing licenses would be the best option.'

These few lines I believe are an example of bottom line reporting, you should all be aware of these principles yet use the shoot from the hip use no fact approach which is often displayed here. No-one listens to unsubstanciated stories otherwise youd believe those old blokes who used to catch those sugar bags full, back then when the wind blew harder, the hills were steeper, the dust was dryer !!!
James wasnt that you in the picture with a poor old shovel nose under one arm and a dog under the other, which one were you going to throw back.

[Big_unit]

Yes in this reply I mention pro's that I know, but they have operations nowhere near the straits and closures I mention for example may be the scollop fishery off Gladstone. You blokes should concentrate on whats written not what you want to reading into it. Hear are a couple of sentences from my submission to gov. on straits becoming a marine park.

'Analysing the chart and graphs of appendix 3 (where I could find no reference for the representation of waved lines used in the bar charts) I noted that area V 34 which covers a large % of The Great Sandy Straits only contributes approximately 3.0% toward the economic value of fisheries, being approx. 3.5% of the commercial tonnage and employing only 5.5% of the total number of boats that work within the proposed GSMP-NS. These figures show area V34 to be the most insignificant contributing area to the economy of the fisheries within the proposed park which should also indicate it to be the most appropriate to apply the provision for fishing activities within a Conservation Park Zone, area V33 following closely behind being the second least significant contributor to the fishery.'
'Areas V33 and V34 could be an area where “maximum effect for minimum expense” in a buy back/phase out operation of commercial fishing licenses would be the best option.'

These few lines I believe are an example of bottom line reporting, you should all be aware of these principles yet use the shoot from the hip use no fact approach which is often displayed here. No-one listens to unsubstanciated stories otherwise youd believe those old blokes who used to catch those sugar bags full, back then when the wind blew harder, the hills were steeper, the dust was dryer !!!
James wasnt that you in the picture with a poor old shovel nose under one arm and a dog under the other, which one were you going to throw back.


Your claiming that I am shooting from the hip with no facts, yet you claim to that you dont know any pro's in the GSS yet your full of facts about the GSS commercial fishery.

Make your mind up.

In one breath you say if I want bans then lead by example and stop fishing in the next breath your own submission says buy out / phase out would be the best option.

Let me guess you thought of it first.

So if by your ideals Im not qualified to give my view and ideas about the rec GSS fishery then what qualifies you ?

What offends you so much about my view that you need to start throwing insults at me over the net ?

Why are old guys stories about the way things were so unbelievable in your opinion ?

Cheers
James

[LostNearBribie]

Wow, that is a lot of interesting reading fellas. :o

I'm heading up to Tin Can Bay for the weekend.
I'm looking forward to it more than ever now!

Might even take a rod and see if I can find a place hiding some fish. ;)

Keep it up, it makes great reading.
But try and keep the agro down.

I read a quote on another forum once, it's very Politically Incorrect,
so sorry if it offends anyone but it has always stayed with me....

"Arguing on the internet, is like the Special Olympics.
Even if you win, you're stil a sp....."

You get the idea. :-[

Cheers.
Hope there is a couple of flatties waiting for me on the weekend.
I will put them back though.

[Wear the fox hat]

Elprez,
There's only one thing wrong with your submission. It was totally ignored along with the thousands of others that were submitted (mine included). With all of the objection etc. that happened, Sunfish were able to get a couple of changes made north of River Heads, but River Heads south remained virtually unchanged from the initial government proposal. It basically amounted to not enough CONTINUED pressure from the public in the effort to give the government bad publicity.

WTFH

[Lovey80]

All the arguing on the net will solve nothing. The passion that the few here are displaying im sure replicaties through out the rec fishing community. At the end of the day i just wish we could be heard by those that can make the decisions instead of ignoring the opinions. I would totally support a Pro buyout as long as the pro's were also happy with it. Taking revenue from fishing licences would provide an excellent means of doing this! I'm sure if there was a study done on fish stocks now then in 10 years if all the Pro's were gone that no amount of rec fishing pressure would stop a significant increase in the sustainablility of the GSS fishery.

Im Allan Jones and thats my opinion lol!!!

Cheers Chris

[elprez]

WTFH, you are absolutely right. These figures of course are those released by the fisheries for the process of change in the straits and for anyone who actualy read the report they will know that they also stated
"Designated area 8 to provide for existing licensed commercial fishing operators to continue as a non-conforming use in the Great Sandy Strait conservation park". and on further to include to "maintain and improve commercial fishing in the area" so the Gov was totally transparent in their intentions and I did realise that my submission would not be read, not even acknowledged but I felt I had to read all reports and use their data to form a balanced argument to the rec. fishers advantage.
It was probably thrown out with all the copied ,e-mail petitions etc that are ignored.
Some people from political parties did contact me however to gain data and rational from my submission before submitting their own.

[elprez]

LNB, hopeyou have a good trip, gov. put out brochures with new regs, cant remember wether I got one from here the sunny coast or up that way monkland store.

[Big_unit]

Wow, that is a lot of interesting reading fellas. :o

Keep it up, it makes great reading.
But try and keep the agro down.

I read a quote on another forum once, it's very Politically Incorrect,
so sorry if it offends anyone but it has always stayed with me....

"Arguing on the internet, is like the Special Olympics.
Even if you win, you're stil a sp....."
You get the idea. :-[

Well I guess thats a great excuse for a fence sitter.



Elprez,
How about answering the questions ? if your able.



Cheers
James

[LostNearBribie]

I didn't find any fish.
Rained most of the weekend.
Nice place though.

[elprez]

Theres the problem LNB, it didnt rain anywhere near as hard as it used to. It is a great place tho your right. Have spent all day in a tinny up a creek raining and being eaten alive by sand flies and loving it. how about the banjo music, hear any?

[LostNearBribie]

Didn't hear any, but saw a few musicians I'm sure...
The Marina is looking a bit posh.
Should have my boat by the time I get up there next time.
Should be some fun in those creeks.

[elprez]

You can find a lot of places to camp away from the toffs if you want, log camp at Kauri was my fav. bush camp but theyve even got a toilet block there now. All tide access or you can leave your boat in close, just in front of the camp. Very protected never been stopped by wind there so naturally its the only place Ive ever been where the sand flies never let up, 24 hours a day. Mosquito and little stony creek run off kauri, miles of fun to be had or run out to the mouth and into the straits. Just remember you cant see them but they can see you.

[elprez]

You can get away from the toffs if you want, my favourite bush camp was log camp on Kauri creek but theyve even got a toilet block there now. Good rock ramp, all tide access or leave it in close just in front of the camp. Very protected, never been effected by the wind but you can see the tree tops bending hence its the only place I know where the sandflies never let up. Mosquito and little stoney (very shallow entrace) creeks run off it, miles of fun to be had there or head out to the mouth and your into the straits. Just remember, you cant see them but they can see you.

[elprez]

OO00000000ps!!

[Nowhere Bob]

I'm confused and a little bit 'noidy, who can see me ?

I'm seeing the tracking shot of shadows flicking between passing trees in deliverance.

[Nowhere Bob]

Looks like Sneaky was just another flaming lurker.
10 years of this internet thing and I still get suckered.
Oh well.

[Wear the fox hat]

Nowhere Bob,

You're confusing everyone with your posts. Instead of worrying about deliverance, I would suggest you should be a bit more concerned about where YOU come from.

Must get a lonely out there in Nowhere Land. ;D;D;D

[Reel Nauti]

I feel sorry for Silent who started this thread, and whilst the continual interjection is very interesting and informative, I do hope Silent has a great time up there.

Not wishing to start any sort of bun fight, but perhaps another thread should have been started instead of highjacking this one.

Cheers

Dave

[Nowhere Bob]

Every body stay calm, I'm taking this thread to Cuba.

Much apologies for poor form. I too hope Silent had a ripper trip.
And yes WTFH it is lonely - but its pretty funny none the less.

[Wear the fox hat]

Nowhere Bob,

No offence was intended. Just having a bit of fun with ya.

WTFH

[elprez]

Boo, going back that way this coming week-end. Looks like its going to blow like hell. Havent heard any reports from up that way lately, what about you blokes. Macs should still be there, what about tailer?

[Nowhere Bob]

On wed / thurs of last week the Long tails so thick you could walk across them.
Had some success with soft plastics, they're not interested in chrome slugs.
The trick seemed to be a small profile SP, on a smallish hook, but one with enough strength to hold them. I didn't get that balance right so I have no photos to post.
Very shy of enging noise, but pick your spot and they will come close enough for a fly shot. Damn that gets the pulse up just thinking about it.