80lb braid for Reds.Is it really Neccesary?

[disorderly]

I'm about to spool up a penn senator for deeper water fishing for nannigi and red emperor.
The local tackle store guy suggests using 80 lb braid..

My concerns are;-

1. I thought the breaking strain given to braid was conservative anyway,so wouldn't this mean the true breaking strain was probably over 100lb?

2. How difficult is it to break if you get an inevitable hook up with the bottom?

3. How much more than say 50lb do you really need?(your rod,reel and back can only handle so much anyhow?

4.Is it really sporting to use such heavy line?(you may as well be using a deck winch and just skull drag to fish to the boat).

5.Can anyone suggest a brand that is good or are they all ok?

As you can probably gather from my questions,I know nothing about braid and very little about red fishing,so any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers Scott

[Black_Rat]

In theory to be fishing 80lb braid around reef you would want 100lb mono leader to compensate for the depreciation in knot strength to at least equal the breaking strain of the braid.

I hate trying to break of 50lb mono of the reef let alone 80 - 100lb mono :-[

Though some blokes swear by 80lb braid for Reds and other big reefies :D

[rumy1]

You are in the exact same boat as me but I have already bought 80lb braid. You need a mono leader anyways ..... I use 80lb mono. Not that hard to snap off if you get a snag. I got told if you want big red's then get 80lb braid or 50lb for smaller ones ! Who wants small ones ???
Knots are the most important thing I have found out with my very little knowledge !
Good luck !!

[jm82]

Thats where a lot of people are starting when they chase big Red Emperor in the 80lb line class. i would hate to head out off Double island under gunned. A good mate of mine fishes for reds up north with a full rollered 37kg t curve and tld 50 2speed with 100lb braid . the only other option is DECK WINCH and braid with big mono leader AND 10 o hooks. I would have a look at the TD Sensor Braid I know it rates pretty highly with some Ausfisher on this site.

Josh

[Stuie]

Both my TLD 25's are spooled with 50 pound Fins braid for chasing reds and other reefies. I use 80 pound mono leader with this and yes I still get busted up at times. More than likely it's not the line class fault though. Knot failure, fisherman too slow to stop fishes first run, sharks, pulled hooks and hook/swivel failure probably account for most lost fish. All great fun though.

[Deiter]

Mate, when you are trying to get a 10kg red to the boat b4 some big@ss toothy critter swipes it, 80lb is a minimum. for some reason the reds seem to hang out in the same areas as big noahs and you simply cannot afford to be 'playing' a fish for too long. (beating the sharks is the sporting aspect)

If for no other reason than to actually boat 1/4 of the fish you hook, 80lb (braid or mono) seems to be common ground for guys who regularly hunt reds.

Damo

[cammac]

Sounds like the deck winch is the go specially an electric one - then you can get them up in extra quick time no muckin around eh

[disorderly]

Some interesting responses guys.Thanks.
I might just try out some of the 80lb braid.

Josh,
I would be a little worried using a rod with rollers.Is it a concern that the braid may jam between the roller and the guide?

cheers scott

[Volvo]

Mate you'd be better off with some clothes line, and an anchor buoy make sure the red dont get away..80lb!! , feck where's the sportsmanship in fishing gone nowadays.....
Better still a big hook end of your anchor chain..
I fish with thirty pound mono most times and not too many reds get away if they happen to get hooked....
And if by chance you do end up using 80lb braid whatever ya do dont go joining higher breaking strain mono to its end otherwise good chance of shreddin a coupla fingers if ya get snagged and need to break loose...
use maybe a 50lb mono leader..
My tuppence worth..

[cammac]

in theory u shud be able to get a 10kg red in on 10kg line - remember line is rated 10kg dead weight on land but then when the fish runs ! imagine shud be able to winch one in on 20kg braid with say 50kg leeder. my 20c worth anyway
caught some pretty big kingies and mackarel on 20kg and manage to turn them pretty quick

[dfox]

Scott,
The reasons for using braid for reds is for feel in current and to get down to the bottom. But braid has next to no give and this is where people come unstuck.
The choice of line class to use in braid depends on how and where you are fishing.
If your fishing well away from the reef's up there (innisfail) and the bottom structure is relitively flat, sharks arent a problem as much, and a drawn out fight is quite possiable so 50 or 60 will do.
Ive fished all night with 50 and not lost a fish to sharks and landed 20 plus reds.
The key to using 50lb is to run 80lb mono leader.
Run a long leader of at least 5 to 6 meters at "least" and tie it so its winde on. With good knots the mono will bust usually before the braid.
Fishing for reds with short leaders and braid is the best recipe for losing reds.
A good red goes hard early and even with quality gear, drags set etc youll get busted most times.
You need that long leader to give the setup that little more give.
By going to 80lb the safety margin is increased and more primative setups work, it also helps give you a chance to beat the odd shark. If your fishing country and the sharks move in leave.
Even with deck winches using 200lb line theyll destroy you, and your just wasting good fish.
So what im saying use 50lb braid with long 80lb leaders.
Or go 80lb with 80 or 100lb leader and still run a reasonably long leader.
Otherwise run a mono setup, 50lb up.
Good luck mate ...foxy

[mariner_22]

Hey foxy

some interesting comments here and an interesting question i have always believed that guys fishing 80lb and up ruin the fun in fishing. Where is the fun in skulldragging fish to the surface? I use the exact rig that foxy has suggested. I have 40lb mainline mono or 50lb braid with a bimini in the end. I then tie on 6 metres of 80lb penn 10x leader with a tony jones leader knot. I then run a large ball sinker 8-10 on to a hook. I usually fish mono but am goin to take out another rig with 50lb braid to fish the deeper reefs and when the current is running.

Francis

[dicko1980]

Scott,
The reasons for using braid for reds is for feel in current and to get down to the bottom. But braid has next to no give and this is where people come unstuck.
The choice of line class to use in braid depends on how and where you are fishing.
If your fishing well away from the reef's up there (innisfail) and the bottom structure is relitively flat, sharks arent a problem as much, and a drawn out fight is quite possiable so 50 or 60 will do.
Ive fished all night with 50 and not lost a fish to sharks and landed 20 plus reds.
The key to using 50lb is to run 80lb mono leader.
Run a long leader of at least 5 to 6 meters at "least" and tie it so its winde on. With good knots the mono will bust usually before the braid.
Fishing for reds with short leaders and braid is the best recipe for losing reds.
A good red goes hard early and even with quality gear, drags set etc youll get busted most times.
You need that long leader to give the setup that little more give.
By going to 80lb the safety margin is increased and more primative setups work, it also helps give you a chance to beat the odd shark. If your fishing country and the sharks move in leave.
Even with deck winches using 200lb line theyll destroy you, and your just wasting good fish.
So what im saying use 50lb braid with long 80lb leaders.
Or go 80lb with 80 or 100lb leader and still run a reasonably long leader.
Otherwise run a mono setup, 50lb up.
Good luck mate ...foxy

Is that pic from your Pro day's Foxy?

Cheers
dicko1980

[snelly1971]

Hi Scott...i always do things by overkill....mine are fitted with 130 lb braid and one with 200 lb cortland braid.....i have busted 80 lb off here a few times in tassie bottom fishing in 150 meters plus off water...so i dont see a problem with fitting your reel up with 80 lb....

[dfox]

Yeah Dicko that's part of a commercial catch.
For those that are into sports fishing and like to use light lines, chasing reds, especially off places like fraser is a waste of time. You'd be lucky in most areas to land one in every hundred hooked, the sharks would love you ...foxy

[dicko1980]

What sort of rig do fish with when your specifically targeting red fish Foxy?

[mattooty]

If your using a dropping style rig, ie. sinker at the bottom, then a simple little trick i learnt was to tie a granny knot just above the sinker. that way if the sinker gets snagged (and its primarily the sinker that does get snagged up) then you just yank a few times and the sinker busts off.
Matt

[disorderly]

Some good advice here I think.

Volvo ,cammac,and mariner_22,

The sporting aspect of using 80lb was one of my original concerns.Thanks for putting some perspective on this.

Foxy,

As you suggest,the red fishing grounds are on flatter ground away from the main reef areas,so I think 50lb should suffice.

BTW thats a great looking freezer box full of reds there.

I,m also interested in the best way to set up your rig.

Mattooty,

Thats a good idea so the sinker breaks away when snagged.

Snelly,

You crack me up with your 200lb braid,mate.I could have used your outfit a week ago when I lost both my anchors!http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif


cheers Scott

[dfox]

Dicko, reds are a bottom fish so i use a paternoster rig for them. There not fussy and when feeding will hit most rigs, but the key is to get either on the bottom or as close too as possiable.
Sometimes locally i fish with a running ball sinker (10 ball) too a gang of mustard 7766 in 7/0's but this is manly to give myself the chance of picking up a few snapper and pearlies, but if its reds only your after use a single rigged paternoster. If you run a double rigged paternoster on 80lb leader a double hookup will usually end up in the lose of one or both of the fish. Even with 200lb leader on the winches we have big reds bust the line between the two fish...

[snelly1971]

Yep its there if you want an anchor rope Scott....i own 12 rods...10 are fitted with finns 80lb braid...1 with 130 lb and my favourite with 200lb....i must say that me and my mates have busted of 80 lb a few times but have never failed with 130 or 200lb....maybe my gear isnt setup as good as it should be but at least i know my 200 lb wont fail due to my shitty knots...

[ratboy]

I use 60 lb mono & 100 lb leader & have caught a few nice reds. From experience if the man in the grey suit is hanging around not too many red fish make it to the boat (no matter what size line you have).