very close capsize

[gruntahunta]

I learnt a valuable lesson today.....and was very lucky to come through unscathed.....

I took my new 2nd hand half cab for my first trial run in the pine river today and whilst turning I almost flipped it over and almost put my wife and son and dog and myself in the drink....it was so close it was scary.

I wasnt turning sharply or going too fast but had the motor trimmed down . It has a hydrafoil fitted and evidently that caused the boat to lean/bog in and almost roll over............I remembered that the previous owner said something about not trimming all the way down but I thought he was talking about take off and I wasnt concerned about this.

When I got home I phoned him up and told him what had happened and he said it never used to do it until he installed the hydrafoil and he almost flipped it as well.....................

I now know how to turn safely in my boat but a serious question remains.........modifacation can have serious consequences for the unwary.
I am so glad that it happened to me whilst I was driving and when my lesser experienced sons and their friends were driving.

I am a very experienced boatie but once again have been shown that the unexpected can be deadly.

Hope this might help someone and avoid an accident some time

cheers pete

[Phoenix]

Well - at least no one got hurt.

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Sorry to hear of your close shave. Glad you are all ok.

Think i would be getting rid of the hydrfoil. Have read lots on this forum and from what i can work out they can be very dangerous. Perhaps a thread to ask opinions on these.????????????????

Glad you are all ok.

Ronnie

[Grand_Marlin]

Pete,

I had a friend with a 6m Dehaviland Trojan with twin 70's on it ... exctly the same thing happened.

But - he was at sea and with twin motors = twice the problem.

He threw them away as it scared the crap out of him.

Cheers

Pete

[kingtin]

Glad to hear that you're all safe and sound Pete.

Yeah, I agree with Pete and Ronnie in that there's been discussions in the past here about hydrofoils and the consensus seemed to be that you have to be very aware of just how they can alter a boat's handling characteristics.

Did you have a long queue for the ramp today?

kev

[gruntahunta]

No their was no one at deepwater bend....well just a few......wind warning was out so that would have kept lots at home i suppose

I,m going to unbolt the bloody thing and see how we go....never liked the idea of them anyway

If I cant get on the plane quick enuff them i need a bigger motor or just put up with it

[charleville]

There was a guy called himself "Little Rexy" (now deceased) who used to be a regular poster on one of the southern fishing chat sites Fishnet.com.au and who used to be the customs officer for Mercury outboards. He once told me that Mercury themselves used to sell hydrofoils as an accessory/after-market product but they ceased selling them for exactly that reason.

He said that they were prompted to do that after a couple of boats with hydrofoils had flipped in the USA killing the occupants. Pretty dangerous in tight turns, I understand.

I am really glad that all you sustained out of the experience was a shock, Gruntahunta. Better now than later but that is stating the bloody obvious.

[shaman]

I know how scary any boating near miss can be........... had a few.
Glad all is ok & feel for you as your family was involved....... the dreaded what ifs
I'm glad you posted this info as I wasn't aware of this problem as I've never had the need for a hydrafoil before although was tempted once but did'nt bother, thank heavens. I just put up with it being a bit slow out of the hole. I think some people want far to much performance from a fishing boat & unless your boat is close to dangerously slow out I wouldn't bother.

[trueblue]

All boats are different - some need them, others don't. Just don't put them on boats that don't need them.

I have one and I can turn it as hard and as fast as you like, no problems.

Without it, the boat is a pig...

all things in perspective

[spook76]

this is so trippy this has happen to you cos
a couple of weeks ago I fitted one small foil to my motor its only a 9.9 but I had 8 lives left on the plain was great in rough water then started turning just backing off and next thing i knew i was top half wet the boat did a 90 de" turn in a couple of metres thinking twice about these foils i tell YA!!
from a shaking spook,

[Mattg68]

the hydrofoils were designed primarily for (as some members have stated) getting a boat up & on the plain quicker & for some boats I suppose that also means terrible handling other than in a straight line. BEWARE.


Matt

[CHAPPY]

Re very close capsize.

Thank you gentlemen for helping me make up my mind. Have been considering it . I shall not be fitting one thanks to this forum.
Regards
Bush BUDAH.

[SeaHunt]

Hi Pete,
I had a similar experience about 5 years ago, similar boat too.
What type of hydrofoil is it?
I did a fair bit of research and sea trials at the time.
I think the problem only occurs if your foil has the ability to flex and distort under pressure. One of the wings distorts and digs in.
Keeping the motor trimmed down especially in turns would reduce the chance of this.
Get rid of it, or if you have to have one get one like the Permatrim, it is solid aluminium and does not have wings as such and will not flex, a second option would be an SE Sport a little wider but also does not seem to flex under pressure.
With the permatrim you seem to be able to trim the motor and corner fairly hard without any worry, with the SE sport I would advise not trimming the motor up too much and trimming it down before any sudden turns.

[roydsy]

I have a SE Sports hydrofoil 300 on a 115HP merc on the Full Boar 5.5M and I can be at close to full speed (40+ knots) and throw the boat into a hard turn and it powerslides and corners perfectly with the foil. I haven't tried taking off without the foil, but my only gripe about this boat is its time to get on plane (when fully loaded) is a little slow in comparison to its other capabilities. Without the foil, i would imagine it to be worse at take off.

Having said that it still performs well, I am just a speed freak and want maximum performance.

[gruntahunta]

Hey Seahunt...this is a stringray and it does it more when I am trimmed right down.....obviously pushing the bow of the boat deeper in the water...its coming off

[SeaHunt]

The Stingray are a fairly wide thin wing shape from what I recall they may even be a 2 piece unit. Plastic and flexible, if you can bend it at all with hand pressure they are dangerous in my opinion. Stingray give good lift , but I think that is the best you could say about them, throw it away. You need to be confident you can throw it into a sharp turn at any speed, especially on smooth water.
Try it without anything for a few trips, if it is getting bogged down and wont get out of the hole quick enough for you then look at a permatrim or SE sport.

[gruntahunta]

removed the srtingray and went for a run........absolutely a different boat....no handling problems and it actually gets up oout of the water quicker....why it was put on in the first place eludes me

[Luc]

I fitted a permatrim to improve the 'get on the plane' bit. It also lets me plane at a lower speed and have not had any problems doing turns or in following seas.

Although I'm very impressed with the permatrim, when I upgrade to a bigger boat, I won't automatically fit one.

Fitting any sort of foil, wings, trim tabs etc... has to be looked at on a case by case basis with lots of research, questions & discussion.

I ended up going for the permatrim due to its lack of flexing. Some foils at looked at were too flimsy (flexible) for my liking and the mounting method of some IMO would put a huge amount of stress on the anti-cavitation plate.

I beleive there have been cases of one side of anti-cavitation plates snapping off due to the stress happening during turns.

Luc

[Angla]

Mate, I have a 135 on a 5.75 metre with a SEsport 300 and I have never felt awkward in any situation. I hoon nearly everywhere and turn and stop as fast and hard as you like. Never had a problem.

My question to you is How is the engine height. I would imagine that if the engine is a little lower than needed it may cause the effect you mention.

Chris

[trueblue]

I have to agree with Chris. Engine too low would definitely aggravate the situation. Flexible fins are also a no-no.

[onerabbit]

Always interested in the 'foil threads,

It really comes down to the boat & motor concerned,

I have had my older Seafarer for 7 years, she came with a Yammy 90 that I thought was a bit of a slug, so I put the foils on & it was a different boat, much better at sea, so, when I replaced the Yam with a new Merc, I told my mechanic mate to just fit them straight up, what a pig it was from brand new, it cavitiated, couldn't handle a turn, so I pulled them back off & no probs ever since.

If your motor has a very small cav plate they CAN be great, but they dont suit everyone.

Muzz

[Bassmaster1]

Hi,

Just picked up my Mustang Tournament 1600 yesterday with a 90hp Johnson 4stroke on the back. Then engine is fitted with a white plastic hydrofoil and yesterday out at sea, I became very aware of the negative effects of the foil. Probably my fault for having the motor trimmed right down too, but it did not really perform well in the swell.

I am seriously considering taking it off. Anyone had any experiences with a similar set up?

Cheers,

Bruce

[WalFish]

Like has been stated before on this thread - some boats like them and some don't.

Had a SE Sport foil on my last boat - Quintrex bow-rider 480 with a 70hp Johnson 4 stroke and the boat performed a lot better with the foil. Hole-shot was a lot better, light turns no problems and she also behaved very well in full-boar turns. Not a problem at all, but again, horses for courses. You might just have to play with the trim a bit and learn the boat a bit. As also stated earlier, being a new boat, engine height may have a bit more of an influence than you would like.

[Razgo-]

my recent boat 4.29 clark 50HP Johnson came with foils "Formula Foils" and seems to go well.

On my previous 3.75 tinny i had no foils and flipped it on a turn. put foils on and that helps turning a lot better.

my johno foils.

[black runner]

Foils are wings and therefore generate varying degrees of "lift" depending on the angle of attack. I suppose a situation could arise during a tight turn where only one side of the foil is in the water causing uneven lift and instabilty especially when trimmed in and the angle of attack greatest.

I had a set on my previous (underpowered) tinny and had no probs but I had fixed trim. Didn't try it trimmed in. Pays to stick to the name brands if needing one at all.

Good to hear all unscathed. Almost sounds like these were fitted upside down.

In aircraft, wing design is critical to overall performance. Can't see why an outboard foil would be any different and therefore may work for some applications and not others.

Cheers

[shano]

wow you must have dug deep to find this post lol 2 years old!

[owie625]

When the boat tips in these situations, do they tip into or away from the direction you are turning?

[Zooter]

Mate those 2 piece foils/wings are a big NO NO! they flex easy as, try it when its out of the water, Permatrim or the SE foil range , (One piece) are the way to go,

Also all boat designs are different, sum handle turns alot better than others etc!

U cant honestly say all foils are dangerous on all boats, There are alot of varables in these situations!

Did u have a one or two piece foil on it???

[thatsakeeper]

I pondered a hydrofoil for a couple of months and ended up fitting one last week. Ive seemed to benefit in everything thats pitched at its sale. I do feel ive lost a bit of top end speed but i know santa is bringing me a gps this year so i can check for definate.
I found the difference in wakes interesting and with the foil it peters out alot quicker, both photos were taken at cruising speed 4000rpm.
Theres still some questions i have with motor height and if he would keep the foil on or change it, after reading thru these posts safety ones too.
Glenn my mobile mechanic is going to take me out for a run after chrissy (this is not a free service, obviously) as i dont know anyone with a boat or experience to pick their brain and while he's at it check over everything.
To foil or not to foil...that is the question.