Soft Plastics Environmental Impact

[Scalem]

Before reading on, let me say that the last thing I want to do is provide an opportunity for a slinging match between bait fishing enthusiasts and the placcie brigade. I wanted to have a look around for information regarding the potential environmental impact of using soft plastics, and what happens to the fish in the event of swallowing a plastic. There must be differences between manufacturers in respect to the fish's ability to pass or digest the plastic. I can start by quoting what I found on Squidgys website in respect of their approach to providing a safer plastic which is biodregradable, but I'll keep looking, and invite others to help by posting in this thread.

Remember, approach this objectively and responsibly, don't make this an excuse for a slinging match depending on which is your choice of fishing methods.;)

"ENVIRONMENTAL MESSAGE
Increasingly, anglers and others are asking questions about the environmental impact of discarded or lost fishing tackle; including soft plastic lures, jig heads, hooks and related accessories. We at Squidgy take these issues very seriously indeed, and we are constantly searching for ways to minimise the potential environmental impacts caused by our products. Right now, we're actively involved in researching effective biodegradable materials and developing other strategies designed to make our sport more sustainable in the future. In the final analysis, however, responsibility inevitably comes down to the individual angler; in other words, to you and me."

Scalem

[Nic]

There's an article that touches on the subject at the Food Source site: http://www.fslures.com/news.asp?record_no=3721

They haven't referred to any particular scientific study though, so it's possible nobody has conducted an independent study yet.

[PinHead]

Ban 'em..too risky to the environment

[gone_fishing]

damm good question that one
have been lead to believe berkely plastics are bio degradable
but im sure the older versions arent so with being plastic this will cause a impact in the future ive lost enough of the buggers on snags

[Lucky_Phill]

Tye Porter has an article on this very subject in this Months edition of Bush'n'Beach Fishing magazine.

Phill

[gregdeeth]

only berkley gulp are biodegradable.
good question though i would be good to know if a fish swallows a nomal plastic can live.
you'd think someone would have found a dead fish with one in their guts by now.
i espcially hate seeing people though used plastics into the water. just as bad as cigerrette butts if you ask me.

[hooknose]

As mentioned previously the only ones that I know of for sure that are biodegradable are the gulps, they are made of corn starch and though not a true plastic they behave the same way and catch fish while not causing any of the environmental problems. As for jig heads I guess they have the same impact as hooks and lead sinkers!!!

[LizardLord]

yeh you've gotta wonder about how many plastics there are laying around. one day i snagged up and couldn't get it free so i snapped off, then my mate did the same thing. since he'd just purchased some dodgey nipper looking plastic which he thought was the best thing ever he decided to go for a swim and free his lure. on the same snag he brought back a whole bunch of other plastics and jigs. stuff knows how long they'd been there

[NAGG]

SPs wont last very long outdoors as they are not stabilised & are made from fairly inert materials .... if not biodegradable ! The bigger worry is the lead in the jig heads :-X But hey that then brings into consideration all the bait fishos that use sinkers::) To be honest ...... fishing can never be considered a environmentally/ecologically friendly pastime ....:o NAGG

[Scalem]

Ban 'em..too risky to the environment

Good onya Pinhead;D ;D

I dunno what you have got about Plastics, but it must have been an unfortunate incident that's for sure!! But I won't hold that against you ( or maybe that's the wrong choice of words::) ::) )

Phil, I will have to look out for the article in B&B, should prove interesting. How would you be, as soon as I stopped my subscription, electing to buy from the Newsagents when I want, there's something I want to see in it.

I pulled up a snapper with a placcie in his gut once, and I think the plastic would have been too big for him to pass it. Even if he did, he'd think he was giving birth! Obviously the fish was unaffected, and still hungry ( and stupid) enough to eat my plastic too.

Thanks Nic for the Foodsource link too, Gregdeeth, you missed this one if you thought the Berkley Gulp was the only biodegradable plastic available.

I think the difference lies in whether the plastic is an derivative of petroleum/ oil based or natural ingredients.

Keep the links/ info coming everyone.

Scalem

[BAR UP]

Good on you Scalem, i do agree that this subject may be an issue into the future but i reckon that this thread will become a phenomenom? like that bloody "WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING AND WHAT AREA ARE YOU":(

[Feral]

As long as it is not a biodegradable one it should have no affect on the environment except to look ugly. Biodegradable ones will add some degree of nutrients to the environment, but it would be stuff all. There is a possibility that chemicals may leach out of biodegradable ones, but once again the size of a plastic compared to the environment it is in it should have stuff all affect.

I dont know if fish or other wild life would be attracted to one that was just lying in the water. Fish that eat them and escape or are set free, your guess is as good as mine, but probably less damaging than a swallowed chemically sharpened hook.

[Burley_Boy]

I go to the local park, nature reserve, or a secluded beach and what do I see, sure as buggery aint soft plastics doing the polluting. Great to be worried about our impact but it feels irrelevant compared to the amount of crap I find everywhere we go.

Do something like carbon credits, everytime you loose a plastic, go pick up a bit of crap off the road before it gets washed into the local waterway.

[Scalem]

I go to the local park, nature reserve, or a secluded beach and what do I see, sure as buggery aint soft plastics doing the polluting. Great to be worried about our impact but it feels irrelevant compared to the amount of crap I find everywhere we go.

Do something like carbon credits, everytime you loose a plastic, go pick up a bit of crap off the road before it gets washed into the local waterway.

Too right Burley_Boy

Here we are discussing soft plastics, and lately the M1 traffic has been such a carpark I can survey the amount of litter in the middle of the green strip. What I see on the road is a nightmare, especially cigarette butts!! And that's only what I see, and not washing down the gutters each time it rains! But the point is, we use plastics for luring fish, not cigarette butts which the fish are not likely to swallow .... Or do they?:-/

Scalem

[fishphile]

I picked this up in the "Fortean Times" The best non-fishing magazine available.

"Old toothbrushes, Beach toys and used condoms are part of a vast swirling vortex of plastic rubbish in the middle of the Pacific, Which periodically grows to the size of TEXAS!" [R] February 2007 Fortean Times.

I think we have larger problems on a much wider scale than the odd Soft plastic being lost. I'm no greenie but SHIT! It has also been predicted in the journal "Science" that the worlds stocks of seafood will collapse by 2048 if overfishing and pollution continue at the present rate.
Now this may all be propaganda, However I for one try not to support commercial fishing in any way ( If I can't catch a fish I don't eat fish) However in the off season I will buy prawns and a couple of sandies. So I am not preaching here (even though it sounds like it) Just adding a bit of food for thought.

Cheers Dave.

[rick k]

I'm over losing replies on this site as I type them.

Latex frangas probably bio degrade. Silicones.... who knows.

GSP line is probably a bigger issue from my limited perspective

[rogersto]

I tend to agree with Burley_Boy here.

Assuming plastics aren't toxic to the fish or the environment in any way, sure it would be cool if they broke down / decomposed over time, but let's face reality here, the number of plastic lures, pieces of snagged fishing line, sinkers (lead, 'ullo 'ullo - Toxic !), Hooks and swivels are just a drop in the ocean, the effect on overall pollution levels would have to be on-par with me taking a leak into Tallebudgera Creek because there's no public dunnies around. Drop in the ocean.

There's infinitely more pollution spewing into the air when the powers-to-be decide to throw a bunch of traffic lights out of sequence on some arterial road, forcing traffic to stop'n'go on a stretch of road, hoping evil knievel traffic cop and his radar gun snares some unsuspecting working class stiff that's about to run late to his next job as a result and does a rat-run down some side street or transit lane, meanwhile all those cars, buses and trucks stop and go and emit pollution into the atmosphere so the Government can rake in a few extra bucks in fines and the GST from the increased fuel consumption.

Every time I head to the Tally River to suck up some nippers, I always have an empty plastic bag from our last shopping trip with me, walking back closer to the mangroves there's always some piece of rubbish here and there which I pick up and chuck in the bag, and discard 'em in the bin back at the carpark.

Some things we have some control over and can do our positive bit.

Read this article about massive smog and pollution in many SthEast Asian cities, I dare to think we can carbon trade and go renewable and clean energy all day long till the cows come home, but I doubt whether it will make any impact globally unless this becomes a global effort and all nations participate (a real challenge for developing countries like China)

just my 10c worth.

[Scalem]

Rogertso

All valid input and please don't think I am disagreeing with you, because I am not. What I am looking at here is our mindset. As mentioned, our seafood stocks are predicted to decline rapidly if we don't do anything about it. In our own answer to the global scale of environmental impact, the solutions to problems start with you and me, because we are part of it. Its great that we remove rubbish we find while out fishing, and it's good manufacturers of soft plastics are looking for more environmentally safe chemicals to make them. The point, using your example , if everyone thought it was OK to take a leak in Tallebudgera Creek, suddenly it becomes a problem. If every smoker thought that throwing a cigarette butt out the car window was insignificant and a "drop in the ocean" environmentally speaking, suddenly, we have a problem, and it is a problem. We already know that the latter is a major problem, they float, take many years to break down, and end up in our waterways.

Starting with me, I think if I am not satisfied that the plastics I have been using are safe to use from a fish's perspective ( that is if it does not end up on my dinner plate;) ), then I should start using plastics that are. I hope I am making sense and don't sound like I am preaching.

Regards

Scalem

[rogersto]

no mate, you're preaching, but you are making sense. The "if everybody..." scenarios are arbitrary - cig butts are a real problem, actually I think smoking is a disgusting habit anyway (sorry smokers, no offence intended, I respect your craving for nicotine though) --- but it's going to take an unrealistic number of people to take a pee in the river to come anywhere near the impact made by stormwater runoff and whatever else finds its way into the river, whether man-made or not.

[Scalem]

Ha Ha,

I guess I better attend to that oil leak my car had had for the last 6 months then! Where does it end? I'm becoming a greenie!!;D ;D

Scalem

[Poodroo]

Well people seem to focus on the affects of SP's on the environment and it is something that I feel needs to be studied in depth more for the peace of mind however nobody ever thinks twice about the hazards of fishing line out there. If a large fish totally bricks you after peeling off 200 metres of line what is to become of all that fishing line? What about the snags and how much line gets left behind? I am sure placcies biodegrade faster than the loads of fishing line we tend to leave behind.

Poodroo

[Scalem]

Well people seem to focus on the affects of SP's on the environment and it is something that I feel needs to be studied in depth more for the peace of mind however nobody ever thinks twice about the hazards of fishing line out there. If a large fish totally bricks you after peeling off 200 metres of line what is to become of all that fishing line? What about the snags and how much line gets left behind? I am sure placcies biodegrade faster than the loads of fishing line we tend to leave behind.

Poodroo

Yes, true, but a fish does not deliberately attack fishing line in order to swallow it. It's what happens to a petroleum based plastic lying in the gut of the fish ( which would be impossible to pass) once ingested that I am focussing on.

Scalem

[Poodroo]

Yes, true, but a fish does not deliberately attack fishing line in order to swallow it. It's what happens to a petroleum based plastic lying in the gut of the fish ( which would be impossible to pass) once ingested that I am focussing on.

Scalem

You'd actually be amazed what a fish digestive system can endure and pass. Having spent some years in the aquarium industry I have witnessed some ingestions that were almost unbelievable. A two foot long coral trout swallowed a large piece of scouring pad that was accidently dropped in the tank (not by me) and it passed it out in a couple of days although it looked painful. Glad it was the fish and not me. I think that pieces of placcie would pass through the system quite easily but I guess it is something that would need to be studied to get some substantial proof that the fish suffer no ill affects. If they do I might go and target grinners. :D

Poodroo

[BilgeBoy]

I dunno about this fished out by 2040 stuff. This year has been a great year for Flathead and Mackie due to better management. As far as plastics go, I only use Gulps because they are biodegradable!!

Good post Scalem...it sure gets you thinking!

How many people here still have the same hard body lures they had 5 years ago!! I know most of mine are bitten off or snagged up! Then again I have found a few over the years, walking the beach or on the rocks at low tide!

It would be nice to think that the non Biodegradable SP's are not as in demand because they don't perform as well etc...but that would be an ideal world!

BilgeBoy

[Far side]

no mate, you're preaching, but you are making sense. The "if everybody..." scenarios are arbitrary - cig butts are a real problem, actually I think smoking is a disgusting habit anyway (sorry smokers, no offence intended, I respect your craving for nicotine though) --- but it's going to take an unrealistic number of people to take a pee in the river to come anywhere near the impact made by stormwater runoff and whatever else finds its way into the river, whether man-made or not.

True we are all peeing and crapping in the rivers and seas it just happens to go through a sewerage treatment plant.

With respect to soft plastics I am more concerned with the other type bait bags shopping bags drink containers etc we we do a dump trip on straddie we make a point of stopping and filling a garbage bag with washed up rubbish on the beach it takes about 10 minutes to fill a garbage bag in 150 meters of beach.:)

[Dirtysanchez]

Well the only input I can give is I snorkel a lot in the creeks along the coastline when I am camping, its a great way to suss out where the fish congregate you see, and with limited time there's nothing better than to have a quick look around at the top of the tide, then nip back to camp and grab the rods etc..

Anyway :) after all that I can tell you I see a heap of SPs stuck to rocks, oysters, underwater pipes, and sunken logs etc in these creeks. Most are still as good as the day they went into the water, which is interesting, because if you toss a bottle or something in a few months later the logo's etc have faded and moss starts to grow on it, but not on these lures !!

I have a reasonable collection now..some I throw away in the bin on the way back to camp.

On the topic of lead, yes it is toxic, but in it's state as a moulded sinker, unless the fish ate them, which is doubtful, they are actually very inert sitting on the bottom of the sea / beach, and due to their mass they quickly bury themselves into the sand..well this is what I was told by a chemical eingineer :)

[charlie bouy]

SIMPLE WIN WIN SOLUTION,

I have and will always use the Burkley range of BIO-DEGRADEABLE PLASICS. They work wonders and there are plastics for any situation. Recently we fished with them for bass in the Doon Doon Creek near Clarie Hall Dam worked a treat, The bomies of Hastings Point 5" jerk Shads and smashed the Kings. Not top mention Fisheries should make it illegal to fish for bream and Flathead with them.

Check em out

[Burley_Boy]

Well I left an icecream container with bags of plastics in the garage, the rats bloody well like them so I figure the rats of the sea would as well.

If people get an attitude about what they leave behind then great, if they're just on a winge about the next thing we can ban instead of picking up everything they see, then they can get stuffed.
If people got an attitude that they have to do their bit to pick other peoples crap up then we'd have a cleaner planet.

Sorry thats a Friday afternoon, 4 beer, reply...